I just randomly ran across this:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40717043
and didn't realize how poorly the devices are selling at launch.
I'm not trying to knock WP7 and although I prefer Android I still like WP7 a lot and do think it has the potential to contend if it can just get off its feet and convince people to get on board.
Something else I thought of was when there is a CDMA iPhone in Q1 2011, this will hamper sales of WP7 since VZW has so many customers and it seems like most will go for an LTE iPhone over a WP7 device, if only due to name-recognition.
Personally, I hope it succeeds because as I've said before, it will force Apple and Google to stay on top of their game as far as quality is concerned and it's something new and fresh and I'm always about that.
Just needs to freaking sell more.
nope its not a flop
It's not really a flop, it's just that there's so much on the market right now. When Iphone, and Android both first came out, there really wasn't all that much available that people would flock to. Even more when right now WP7 only has about 2-3 major carriers available. I think when more updates for WP7 come in, and when the other major networks receive WP7, that's when we'll see a jump in it. I get questions on WP7 all the time at work, or people telling me that they didn't like WM6.5 too much, so they aren't going to bother with WP7.
Verizon and Sprint will open up a HUGE market - especially for the "Really" crowd who don't like the prices of AT&T.. Sprint could potentially be the largest customer magnet for WP7 with their great network pricing - especially if MS incentivizes their network/phone/plans/hardware.
Apple iPhone (2007): 1,000,000 in 74 days, one phone in one country
Google G1 (2008): 600.000 in two months, one phone in two countries
Palm Pre (2009): 300,000 in one month, one phone in one country
WP7 (2010): 300,000 (?) in one month, 9 phones worldwide
Yes, it's a flop.
Opposite reason.
vbetts said:
It's not really a flop, it's just that there's so much on the market right now. When Iphone, and Android both first came out, there really wasn't all that much available that people would flock to. Even more when right now WP7 only has about 2-3 major carriers available. I think when more updates for WP7 come in, and when the other major networks receive WP7, that's when we'll see a jump in it. I get questions on WP7 all the time at work, or people telling me that they didn't like WM6.5 too much, so they aren't going to bother with WP7.
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WM 6.5.5 Energy ROM was great to me on my FUZE, I have had no problems with it (Lags, freezes etc.). The things I like about 6.5.5 I find missing in WP7. For that reason, I won't switch to WP7 until I actually see the results of the next couple of releases.
tomhierl said:
Apple iPhone (2007): 1,000,000 in 74 days, one phone in one country
Google G1 (2008): 600.000 in two months, one phone in two countries
Palm Pre (2009): 300,000 in one month, one phone in one country
WP7 (2010): 300,000 (?) in one month, 9 phones worldwide
Yes, it's a flop.
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hahaha.. the amount of devices is irrelevent when the marketshare doesn't grow per device available. (hd tv sales didn't multiply by 10 just because there were 10 different tvs on the market)
and where did you pull this 300k number from?
I'd imagine that M$ are less than happy with the sales thus far.
I know loads of people that want a WP but are not willing until M$ "finish making it".
I have been out of contract since June but I am holding out for the HTC pro 7 and copy'n'paste and most importantly- tethering.
It strikes me that part of the problem with dumbing down the OS in the name of mass appeal is the masses are only interested in the amount of apps in the app store.
If the above is correct then I guess ownership will increase in line with the increase in apps.
the amount of devices is irrelevent when the marketshare doesn't grow per device available.
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The amount of countries is and the year, too.
and where did you pull this 300k number from?
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150,000 Facebook users after one month, times 2 (assuming 50% of people log in to Facebook with their Windows Phone 7 phone).
tomhierl said:
The amount of countries is and the year, too.
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is what? most countries and carriers only offered 2 phones available in stock and a 3rd perpetually on back order. In most cases only having one device available for resale in volume.
150,000 Facebook users after one month, times 2 (assuming 50% of people log in to Facebook with their Windows Phone 7 phone).
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50% attach rate to facebook would be amazing and a huge success for everyone involved.
imaginarynumber said:
It strikes me that part of the problem with dumbing down the OS in the name of mass appeal is the masses are only interested in the amount of apps in the app store.
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what exacty is dumbed down? sure, its not 100% polished, but dumbed down?
most countries and carriers only offered 2 phones available in stock and a 3rd perpetually on back order.
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That's not true. They were widely available across Europe only a few days after launch. The rumors about limited stock were bogus. Some stores only had two or three devices, but they didn't get sold. That's a flop by any measure.
50% attach rate to facebook would be amazing and a huge success for everyone involved.
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There are 57 million iPhone users on Facebook, that's more than 50% of them.
what exacty is dumbed down? sure, its not 100% polished, but dumbed down?
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Oh come on. This hardly deserves to be called a smartphone OS and you know that.
tomhierl said:
That's not true. They were widely available across Europe only a few days after launch. The rumors about limited stock were bogus.
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And you have proof of this how?
in the US alone i couldn't get ahold of an LG or focus during launch week.
There are 57 million iPhone users on Facebook, that's more than 50% of them.
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Not if you include ipad/itouch devices..
Oh come on. This hardly deserves to be called a smartphone OS and you know that.
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Now you're just being ignorant and silly.
Oh yes that's what I am... not.
Not if you include ipad/itouch devices..
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So what? If only 20% of users log in to Facebook, that still makes less than a million WP7 phones sold in one and a half months, which is still a flop by any measure.
tomhierl said:
Oh yes that's what I am... not.
So what? If only 20% of users log in to Facebook, that still makes less than a million WP7 phones sold in one and a half months, which is still a flop by any measure.
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a flap only in your eyes
A success considering the crappy economy, a single carrier, a pricey phone with 2 year contract and a holiday season full of stiff competition.
My so called dumb wp7 smartphone does 720p video, takes 5mp pics, uploads to the cloud to save images, integrates with facebook, has a single hub for all my contacts, does netflix fantastically, has twitter/facebook/shazam/seesmic/IMDB/fandango apps, plays games, integrates with my xbox live gamertag is fast, snappy and best of all works as a phone all day long. No dropped calls, no terrible battery life, great voice/speaker quality. Its hardly a flop.
If anything WP7 reflects realistic market conditions rather than fanatic brand obsessed markets.. a year from now we'll all be laughing abnout this anyway still trying to call MS a failure just because thats all you know
Measured against overall smartphone sales, WP7 is the slowest selling OS of the last four years. Sorry, but that's what I call a flop.
The economy has been far worse when Android launched, the G1, iPhone and Pre all were only on one carrier in one or two countries, whereas WP7 is available in many countries on much better hardware and still nobody's buying it.
Your phone doesn't even let you load your files onto it. How lame is that? No wonder nobody's buying this, after all, people want their files. WP7 is a flop both technologically and in terms of sales.
tomhierl said:
Measured against overall smartphone sales, WP7 is the slowest selling OS of the last four years. Sorry, but that's what I call a flop.
Your phone doesn't even let you load your files onto it. How lame is that? No wonder nobody's buying this, after all, people want their files.
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Hahaha loading pics? seriously? Let me tell you something. I went to ATT, bought my focus, plugged in my windows live id and integrated my flickr and facebook ID with WL id and voila, 10+ years of digital photography was on my phone without me having to "load it".. Its called the Images hub and it works great and it continually integrates with services that can extend that hub. Pretty "smart" eh
BTW, until numbers are produced, you're guess is just a guess tarnished with spite and nothing else. I'm quite intrigued where this obsessive ms hate comes from!
I think the point about there being more smartphone OS's to choose from is valid. When iPhone launched it was the only one of its kind. A simple UI for non-business users that was cool, had a big ass screen, and built in iPod, I remember how "cool" everyone who had one felt.
Android came out and the only real competitor was iPhone. But you couldn't get an iPhone on the other 3 networks so tmobile opted to get a G1 on contract instead of buying a used iPhone and unlocking it.
Now let's look at what WP7 has to contend with:
1) iPhone which people love, has a simple UI, and orders of magnitude more apps available than WP7, not to mention the "cool" factor. Everyone knows there's going to be a CDMA iPhone so that is going to really take away from WP7 sales IMO because now people can get their iPhone on a decent network.
2) Android phones on EVERY network, very popular right now and getting more popular by the day. Has had almost 3 years to polish up the OS and has more UI options like Live Wallpapers, Launchers, etc... and tons more apps than WP7.
3) MS already has a bad name in the mobile world for having phones that "lag, are hard to figure out, for business users only" etc... so they are fighting that as well.
4) Advertising - IMO the ads are horrible. They showcase that supposedly iPhone and Android users have to spend more time on their phones because they don't have those big ass tiles? Come on, show us more features of the phone.
5) No front facing camera on any phone is a killer IMO, look at the iPhone 4, the Evo, Epic, MT4G, Nexus S. It's the new trend and people are liking it a lot. I am willing to bet we are going to be FLOODED with VZW Facetime over LTE ads which will crush these amazingly stupid dude jumping out of an airplane and can supposedly open his camera app like one second faster than an iPhone or Android could type ads.
For these reasons it is going to be hard for MS, they are going to lose more $ than they make and will have to keep their head above water till there are much more apps and some of these missing features.
blahism said:
a flap only in your eyes
A success considering the crappy economy, a single carrier, a pricey phone with 2 year contract and a holiday season full of stiff competition.
My so called dumb wp7 smartphone does 720p video, takes 5mp pics, uploads to the cloud to save images, integrates with facebook, has a single hub for all my contacts, does netflix fantastically, has twitter/facebook/shazam/seesmic/IMDB/fandango apps, plays games, integrates with my xbox live gamertag is fast, snappy and best of all works as a phone all day long. No dropped calls, no terrible battery life, great voice/speaker quality. Its hardly a flop.
If anything WP7 reflects realistic market conditions rather than fanatic brand obsessed markets.. a year from now we'll all be laughing abnout this anyway still trying to call MS a failure just because thats all you know
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not so sure.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2140...0_to_1_against_android_iphone_study_says.html
Hahaha loading pics?
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I said files, not pics. Don't be silly.
BTW, until numbers are produced, you're guess is just a guess tarnished with spite and nothing else.
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More numbers: http://www.pcworld.com/article/2140...0_to_1_against_android_iphone_study_says.html
You can do the math. Find out how many Android and iPhone users there are and take that times 0.0045.
I'm quite intrigued where this obsessive ms hate comes from!
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Oh, come on! MS hate? Really? WP7 a ****ty OS, plain and simple. That doesn't say anything about the rest of Microsoft's products - Windows 7 for example is great.
Related
found this interesting because of the on going flop thread...
http://wmpoweruser.com/official-1-5...ped-faster-than-original-iphone-a-good-start/
well he's saying that the manufacturers sold 1.5 million to the carriers, not actual people, so if people don't buy the phone it will just sit on the shelves.
They need people to go to the stores and buy these phones!
but this is great news for WP7, and I do think they have a good product, let's hope they force google to ramp up their product as well.
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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but I think that that will change real fast
vetvito said:
^ doubt it. Google and Apple aren't taking notice of WP7. The only people that care about wp7 is wp7 sites, and this small part of xda. Search around you wont see any Android vs WP7, or IOS vs WP7 threads anywhere. If you do, its very brief.
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How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?
I think Google and Apple are taking notice, MS is nothing to ignore, look what they did to apple in the computer OS world, now they're doing it again.
Take Apple's business model and UI and kang it to run more efficiently and universally, that's what they did with their computer OS and it looks like that's what they're doing with WP7.
Not to mention most stores have very low stock so most of the 1.5 million phones are most likely in the hands of consumers..
lekki said:
How can you say that Google and Apple aren't taking notice?
Do you work for them or have insider knowledge or something?
Any sale of a competing device is something they don't want be it 1 or 100 units so it would be foolish of them to not take notice.
1.5 millions WP7 units bought by retailers means 1.5 million not Apple or Google phones not bought. Why would they not take notice?
And once again, here you are being negative in a WP7 thread. Why do you hang around here if you have so little faith in the OS?
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Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
Just a little piece of what's coming next year:
IPhone 5
IOS5
Nexus 2(not s)
Ipad 2
EVO 2
HTC Knight(maybe the same as EVO 2)
honeycomb
Maybe even cdma iPhone
Galaxy S2
That's just a small part of the competition. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes.
vetvito said:
Wasn't being negative, just posted something that you didn't like.
Apple and Google are more than likely looking at WP7 the same as WebOS.
The thing is you guys act as if the competition will just stay the same. You act as if they wont update.
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There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.
froesei said:
There's a slight difference between WebOS and MS - cash, and lots of it. Apple and Google knew that WebOS was a long shot, and that it had to succeed very, very quickly, because they knew Palm couldn't withstand losses for very long before they were in real trouble.
Safe to say MS doesn't have that problem. They can afford to take the long view, and they will. There's no possible way that MS won't have a significant presence in the mobile space.
And to be honest, Apple hasn't really updated - not in any sort of appreciable way, and they've paid the price. Steve's stubbornness is detrimental to their OS, and he'd better relent on some of his "True-isms", or they'll continue to pay a price.
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You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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Click to collapse
It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.
WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.
froesei said:
It's possible, but I think it's too early to tell. I think what they're really aiming for is the 80% of the total cell phone market that still uses a feature phone. With those kinds of numbers, they don't need a piece of Google or Apple's pie (pardon the pun).
For what it's worth, a good friend, and longtime iPhone user switched to WP7 after he saw mine. And every other iPhone user I've showed it to has displayed elements of envy. Whether or not it's enough to cause them to switch, is another thing, and as of yet not known.
Regardless, it will be interesting to watch, especially if MS keeps updating and innovating the platform.
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That's another good point. I didn't even look at it from that point of view.
However IOS has become too blah, and IOS 5 or maybe 6 will address this. You can't beat Apple by following the same road.
What's innovative in WP7? When they allow the unreal engine, things will be more interesting.
orangekid said:
WP7 is already tons better than WebOS ever was. It has actual developers and an actual app store, supported on phones with big screens and fast processors etc.. not even comparable.
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That's highly opinionated. However your other points are correct. The Pre2 was a nail in the coffin.
vetvito said:
You make some good points, but I'm thinking Microsoft is following the exact same road.
I highly doubt they will have a significant presence in the mobile market. I'm pretty sure they will share the same market as WebOS and Rim.
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doesn't rim own like 24% of the smartphone market?
No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw
vetvito said:
No.
http://www.google.com/m/url?ei=vDQR...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNHQAMucpmohpAbaW31UQAreEuVYIw
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That's just one quarter's worth of numbers. RIM still has the most smartphones in use in the US right now.
RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.
What you're missing is that the vast majority of the 1.5 million units _sold_ by manufacturers are actually also sold to end-users - as we all know a lot of stockists worldwide are on backorder at the moment.
I personally know several developers (myself being one) that did not get their hands on an actual device until after the six week mark due to low stock locally - this from people across three continents.
Worth mentioning is also that two weeks out of those six there was hardly any stock at all anywhere as manufacturers only part-delivered what was initially ordered from the carriers in Europe and Australia. It was only just before the US launch that they were able to even start meeting demand.
Looking at the raw figures though, compared to the iOS and Android launches, I would say these sales are on par. Of course that's not an entirely fair comparison as more people, overall, are buying smartphones today than they did back then but still.
vetvito said:
RIght now? Prove it.
I see what you mean, they were at 40%.
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I was about to get on you... Its a pretty well known fact that RIM holds the majority stake in the smartphone market. Been that way for awhile now. Don't know how much longer that will be but if WP7 got to that level I think itd be considered a great success.
http://www.prweb.com/releases/prweb2011/1/prweb8101410.htm
Despite buy-one-get-one promotions at both AT&T and T-Mobile, the Windows Phone 7 OS claimed less market share than its predecessor, Windows Mobile, for which handsets are still available at all four major U.S. carriers. Windows Phone 7 also entered the market with lower share than either Android or webOS at their debuts, according to NPD's Mobile Phone Track.
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Not good
well Android didn't have to compete with Android when it came on the scene, so it's hard for WP7.
webOS is basically dead now anyways.
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
1) windows mobile was such an unmitigated disaster, any mobile phone with "windows" in the title will make people stop and think
2) it's different than anything seen before
3) it's a new OS, nothing comes out and just dominates (save for the iphone in '07)
4) once people realize that Android is like a prettied up windows mobile, they will try other things
vangrieg said:
MS need to do something about all this PR bleeding. I have no idea what their PR people get paid for.
Of course it has lower share at launch than Android. It's absolutely natural because when Android (and especially iPhone) launched, smartphones were a niche product. And you still have to sell phones, no matter whether they are smart or not. And in order to sell many phones you need awareness, availability and, in the case of platforms such as WP7, WM or Android you also need tons of handsets because you can't make the one and only.
They got 2% share at half the market and half the period. If they sold for the whole quarter they'd get 3-4%. If they sold on all four carriers instead of two, they'd get 6-8%, maybe 10, even with the current set of devices. If they had 30 devices, they'd get even more.
This isn't half bad.
Now, why am I talking about it, not Microsoft PR? This is the question.
And, more importantly, the only thing that matters now is whether new handsets will be coming. If they will, there's no need to worry. If they won't - there's lots of reasons to worry.
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Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
Also, in reference to Microsofts PR, I remember back when Android was launching I remember seeing almost non-stop TV commercials even weeks before it was released. I can say I have seen exactly zero commercial for WP7. Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Well the OP didn't invent those numbers, he reposted them. And these numbers (with corresponding conclusions) will cover the whole internet in no time. And no matter how well-though the conclusions are, the takeaway will be that WP7 is a failure.
Companies hire PR staff exactly to not let such things happen, and to recover in case of problems such as this. It seems that MS hires PR to keep mum about everything.
jklier said:
Maybe they think since they are Microsoft they don't need to advertise.
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Well maybe since they are Microsoft they shouldn't advertise. They suck miserably at it.
GenkaiMade said:
Mm, there's a large amount of BS PR going around... people like the OP making posts about things that they don't understand in the slightest - just playing with numbers to see what comes out :/
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Click to collapse
I beg your pardon? I didn't play with numbers, it's a direct quote. If you don't like them, it's not my fault!
Well, I think that taking 2% share in 2 months is good. WP7 is new and people have to get more info about it. It's not enough, and MS should release the update faster, make their customers believe, that they won't fail. Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
Niiceg said:
Everything will be good. WP7 is awesome
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I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
vangrieg said:
I hope it's not the way MS think.
It's not nearly enough to have an awesome product to sell tons of it.
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Well, Beginning is awesome, let's hope they will make it super awesome with adding more features :]
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
orangekid said:
some of you guys are also forgetting that this is the same company that sold a gazillion Windows 7 licenses and three gazillion kinects. MS knows how to sell a product. Now that they are not tailoring their OS to business users anymore they will pick up the pace with this OS in time. First Q numbers just aren't going to reflect anything.
MS is such a corporate giant that they can afford a bad first year and at least get the product known, they're not Palm, who is going to go under if one phone doesn't sell.
Having said that, I personally do not know one person who owns a WP7 phone or has even heard of the OS besides me, so the general public just see commercials and are like "what the hell is that?" then go into the store and buy an iPhone or an Evo.
Those WP7 commercials basically suck though. they don't say **** about the OS or what it can do, all they say are "look how beautiful it is" or "I can open my camera app one second faster than other people" or "I don't have to look at my phone as long as other users" - maybe that's because you don't have **** for apps? I wouldn't brag about that.
Where are the commercials on the fluidity of the OS? the facebook integration? the battery life? the ease of user-experience? the lack of lag, force closes, or reboots? the fact that there aren't 50 thousand versions of the OS that drive developers crazy? the fact of phones on all 4 networks (soon) as opposed to iPhones on the 2 most expensive networks in the country?
come on, ADVERTISE!
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Click to collapse
Yeah tell me about it. The Xbox franchise hasn't made any money until just recently and they didn't think twice about putting mucho bucks into the platform. Thats like 10 years and billions lost but now they will make that money back and then some.
I saw an interview with BIll G. and Steve J. before the iphone was launched and Bill was talking about what was required for a smartphone to become popular and Steve looked like he was taking some mental notes. Funny enough is Apple pretty much followed what Bill said to a T and knocked it out of the park.
MS knows how to build great platforms and sell them. As long as they can stick it out long enough they will be fine. I think the only reason they killed the Zune is because all that is now rolled up into WP7 and sales were poor anyway, even though it was a great device.
Damn Microsoft, they killed Milo and Kate.
It is too early to be disapointed.
May be after a year, or after MWC 2011.
I hope thay present new devices and new features for WP7.
As was pointed out at wpcentral.com, the article in the OP's post talks about market share, not sales. Of course WP7 isn't going to pass the marketshare of WM, since WM already existed.
that and you also need to take into account what the survey was looking at. was it looking at just 1 country? globally? if it was globally, it is also unfair as windows phone 7 is only selling in a handful of countries compared to windows mobile where windows mobile is actually still very popular across middle east and western asia (india).
To all those who say they are disappointed in what the OS right now all I have to ask is do you see yourself switching to anything else in the future?
Disappointed start is 100% on bad commercials.
If every single smartphone sold to anyone in the last quarter was running WP7, that would probably only bring its market share up to about 12%.
As a rule I am not an early adopter anymore, in large part thanks to experiences in the gaming tech area. In that area, it's never, EVER a good idea to buy anything at launch because early adopters get screwed, 100% of the time. By the time the platform has matured to a level where there is a nice library of games and the hardware bugs have been worked out, there's usually a price drop or addition of features--or both. Whatever else is true, adopting later is more satisfying than adopting sooner, because you get more and better quality stuff for a lower price.
When I went to go buy a new iPhone, I fell head over heels for WP7 on the Samsung Focus. The UI is brilliant and I don't give a **** what anybody says to the contrary, Super AMOLED makes Retina display look like ****. It's not even a contest, and whenever I've shown my Focus to someone, side by side, with their iPhone 4--they've agreed unilaterally that the Focus has a better screen.
But the fact is, Microsoft launched WP7 too soon. It's missing basic, OBVIOUS features that should have been there from the outset. Custom ringtones, copy & paste, multitasking, sending SMS videos--all I can say about those features is "****ing DUH." Of COURSE those are obvious and should have been there from the outset. Any moron realizes that, and the fact that Microsoft dropped the ball on them is just ridiculous. That we're now almost FIVE MONTHS past launch and are still waiting for what amounts to a MINOR update is simply pathetic, and as a consumer I am starting to feel a little ripped off. Microsoft should not have launched WP7 in 2010. They should have waited until they at least got the obvious, ground level features that every dumb-phone for the last half a decade has had standard, out of the box, to say nothing of what Smartphones have had since at least iPhone 3GS hit.
I've been an ardent supporter of WP7 from the outset. I love the UI--it's head and shoulders above the rest. I'm patient with the small marketplace because it's growing fast and I enjoy the excitement of seeing what new goodie comes out next.
But I'm losing patience with how Microsoft has been handling the updates, and the absurd length of their release cycles. If this idiotically named NoDo update, which evidently should have been called "NoGo" instead, doesn't hit in March--then I'm done with the platform and Microsoft can suck it.
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
lekki said:
You have 2 years to regret your decision unless you bought it unsubsidized.
That or you can learn to deal with the decisions you made as an adult.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
It is odd how the OP says so much good for the phone. Reasons upon reasons why the phone was purchased and how great it was.
Then... because of no recent updates it must be a trash phone.
Get over it or buy a new phone. Stop complaining.
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Android and iPhone are both strong contenders (though I'd really rather not give Apple any money, facts are facts, and at least they finally got the basic OBVIOUS features).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
lekki said:
I give MS a year. That's what Android took, that's what the iPhone took and that's what I'll give WP7.
By October this year, we'll see what direction they're really going in with this OS. We'll know if they're about to blow up or burn out KIN style.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Waiting a year is all well and good, and that's what I should have done--waited a year. I'd have had better hardware (not that there's anything wrong with the Focus--it's great hardware, but by the end of the year we'll see dual, if not quad-core phones) running a superior version of WP7.
Buying in early was a foolish mistake on my part.
stackover said:
This NoDo update is so ridiculous and it took months to be released. Dont expect so much in this year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
I feel where you are coming from. Its a bit frustrating when they release a new phone system into a highly competitive, quick paced mobile race, and seem to (from a consumers point of view) barely be working on it. Or putting few resources into it.
The UI and general experience is absolutely amazing. And you see so much potential with the OS, and know if they were to go full speed ahead it would not only compete, but overtake a large portion of market share. But they need to act quicker. Android is enormous and moving quickly, and the iPhone/iPad already has a huge portion of the consumer market locked into Apples ecosystem. You can't take your time adding necessary features. A great looking interface, and some great games only go so far. The phone needs to function, and function well. There are many missing 'standard' features right now, and those need to be addressed.
They do need to do things quicker, and we'll see how things go over the next 6-9 months, but if they want this to succeed, they need to start showing it. And be a little more proactive and transparent. The early adopters / fans are important for any new system to grow by recommending it to friends/family ect, so making everybody angry with the lack of basic features, slow/non existent updates, and lack of official announcements ect will only hurt their chances.
However, I am still a optimist. I see the OS for what it is, and can be. I see apps that are higher quality than anything on any other platform already, and the real kicker for me was the Nokia announcement. I think Nokia's upper end releases of wp7 will be huge, as will their services like ovi maps & navigation ect. Nokia makes great quality hardware, and if this is going to be their # 1 focus, then they will have some really nice handsets, which will also force the other manufacturers to compete within the platform like on Android. I think developers and others who make necessary platform apps also saw this as a sign to take wp7 more seriously.
But it is frustrating. I anxiously await the first update, and just hope that there will be some incremental updates as well before mango.
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
jasongw said:
Here is how adults deal with products that fail to deliver what they promised: They sell them to some idiot on eBay and buy something else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You could do that with products that are failures - but you won't get much of your money back unless it's something somebody else wants.
The best outcome is if you simply bought something that didn't fit you (apparently without doing enough research), so you can make quite a bit on it if you find someone it will fit.
Of course, the latter approach would require some research, which seems to be the problem in the first place.
lekki said:
By the end of this year, I'll buy a new phone as I do every year. So I'll evaluate based on the info from MS, not silly rumors, whether to keep the phone.
Success isn't measured in months for other OSes so why this one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure it is. When iPhone came out we *****ed within months and then for 2 years before they finally got C&P
Perezbah said:
I definitely see where your coming from but to me it seems like they pulled an apple. Iphone took forever to have simple features like you mentioned. Its all about having the consumer hooked enough so they buy the next "upgraded" device.
Damn shame really....thats why I've loved android since it came out if the feature wasn't part of the phone, you can bet there was an app that added the feature.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're exactly right--they DID pull an Apple. The problem with that strategy is that Apple did it 4 years ago--Microsoft doesn't have 4 years to play catch up. If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
kdj67f said:
I feel the same way, I love my Surround but I am already looking at purchasing a new device. I plan on keeping my surround so I can see what the updates look like as WP7 matures. But I want something with more features to play with, and WM is dead and I refuse to buy anything from apple EVER. So Android it is...
And I purposely bought my Surround unsubsidized because I wanted to keep my upgrade available if I didn't like the device or WP7.
If I work one weekend of OT I can afford an unsubsidized phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
jasongw said:
My point is this: I'm starting to see that what I apply in the games world, I should apply to all areas of technology: Never, EVER be an early adopter, because early adopters get the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see it that way. I'm an early adopter because I want some time to get to know the device, explore it's features and such before the masses get their hands on it.
I also enjoy Alpha and Beta testing products of interest to me because in the past when I've done this, I've seen improvements made to the product that started with bugs I've reported.
I guess it just depends on what you want out of the experience. I like to be part of the community that shapes new technology - not someone suckling at some kind of techno-teat all "Me! Me! Me! Boo-hoo where's my update? I'm taking my toys and going home."
If, in any part of your life, you're getting "the **** end of the stick, 100% of the time" then you're doing something wrong. Once you figure out what that is, things will go better.
Heck, most of the software I run is alpha or beta - if it's not I feel like it's old!
Beta OS are just that, despite what the uber microites believe, the King in this case MS, definitely has no clothes and very little in the way of useful apps, live with it. My HD7 is in the best place for it just now, its box.
jasongw said:
Maybe I should just buy an iPad 2 to get my app, C&P and multitasking fix
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your app? Which one?
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
jasongw said:
If WP7 doesn't make a major splash in year 1, you can stick a fork in it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on what exactly? Anyone who has watched the history of MS has seen them slowly constrict their competitors with relentless product improvement.
We saw it with mobile OS's when WinMo slowly eroded Palm to the point that Palm Inc. started putting WinMo on their own devices - who would have guessed that in 1999 when Pocket PC was just a year old?
MS has stormed into the gaming console world in a short amount of time.
Phones/mobile devices are a cool space because so many companies have changed the space in short spans of time. Palm, Handspring, MS, Apple, RIM, Google - they've all had earth-shaking moments that changed the entire industry in the past 20 years.
For those willing to try it, WM7 at least has the design to appeal to the massive segment of the mobile market who's buying a device to support what they want to do instead of what the device can be made to do.
mikeeam said:
And yes, we can't deny that iPad 2 is sexy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can deny it.
theres alot of 4g monster android phones with front facing cameras down the pipelines especially for verizon (thunderbolt, revolution and bionic) has microsoft announced any plans for a 4g wp7 hopefully with a front facing camera? it seems like they are getting left further behind in hardware compare to android i would love for a wp7 device with a front facing camera but for now ill have to settle for verizons trophy whenever it releases
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
The current crop of WP7 all use the same QualComm SoC that is already two-year old. Rumor, Microsoft itself hasn't said anything, is that we MAY see additional QualComm SoC support later this year.
foxbat121 said:
By the speed Microsoft is updating WP7, you will see 4G LTE support in 2015 and Front facing camera in 2020. Oh, wait, WP7 probably won't last that long
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
z33dev33l said:
and the worst part is in its essentially beta phase it feels like a much more complete os than Android. You are correct though. I'm sure well be at windows phone 9 at least by then and Android will still be calling glorified pallet swaps updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
vetvito said:
Please explain this completeness you constantly speak of. As I didn't see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
I can't wait for a 4G WP7 phone! True, Android seems to come out with stuff first, but it's probably got it's share of issues. Given that there won't be a 4G iPhone this year, I think we'll be doing good to see some phones during the holiday season at the end of year. HTC and most manufacturers work on a roughly one year cycle, so we should start seeing some pics and rumors leaked during the summer.
The HTC 7 pro looks like a good phone (even though it got some mixed reviews). I think AT&T wil get this phone or a similar one, but it will be at least HSPA+ or LTE enabled. That's probably why there hasn't been any rumors/announcements particularly since MWC just passed. The only news was the Microsoft/Nokia partnership.
I love WP7, but I'll gladly wait to see a true 4G phone if we get it by the end of this year.
Ok, now I see. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
I would expect to see one from Nokia hopefully in 1Q 2011. But that is dependent on when Mango is released.
Michael.
z33dev33l said:
Android does a lot but everything it does it does poorly.
Windows does a much smaller amount but everything it does it does well.
I'm a quality over quantity type of person. Android is immensely uncoordinated and its presentation is somewhat juvenile.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
ohgood said:
everything ? really ? everything is a pretty big word.
being biased is understandable, but if you're a quality over quantity person, you'd be using iOS, and apple products. i don't care how you argue it, apple makes better software, and hardware, period. and to boot, they make less of it, more to align with your way of thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
ohgood said:
now then, how does an operating system come off as juvenile ? because it has a cool robotic mascot, instead of an old, balding, fat guy that looks like an accountant past his prime ? (balmer, hello)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
ohgood said:
uncoordinated ? how ? how can an operating system be uncoordinated ? you mean like announcing -your- OS is going to slay all the others, announcing -your- os will be updated on every phone, at one time, every time ? by announcing everything is fine with the update to the update ? that kind of coordination ? please, do, clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
ohgood said:
i'm trying hard to find good points to wp7, and want to see microsoft innovate, but even the wp7 biased forum HERE, ON XDA, in what should be a pro-microsoft environment is a majority of less than positive responses reguarding what you've described. please, again clarify.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
ohgood said:
bias is an easy thing to understand. i'm biased towards android because of the mess that was trying to keep windows machines updated and secure back in the 1995-2005 era, and what android (linux) offered to eventually help with. linux sufficed a while, until we found mac os... at that point we were sold. completely for a desktop OS. at this point, we're sold on the simplicity that is android. awesome hardware, updated almost bi-monthly with new, faster, more awesome hardware. the software JUMPS AND LEAPS in innovation with each x.0 release. yes, i'll wear the bias label, for obvious reasons. show me yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
As a person who owns both an Android phone (Captivate) and WP7 phone (Focus), I'd say I will hold on to my Captivate for a while until Microsoft can redeem itself with proper WP7 support.
Yes, Android OS update is a mess. But at least Google does release updates couple times a year. So far, MS released zero updates (not counting the pre-update).
And I found the first party quality software/services serverly lacking on WP7. For example, here is a list of must have and use it everyday software/services on my Captivate:
Google Maps: with vectorized drawing and supports in many corners of the world (I used it last year traveling from US to S. Korea and China), Bing map simply can't compete.
Google Navigation: free turn by turn navigation in US. WP7 has zero offering in this area, free or paid.
Google Voice: free SMS and voice mail and cheap internation calls integrated well into the phone. GoVoice/GVice apps on WP7 have too many limitations. I just can't imagine myself use that daily.
@z33dev33l WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
vetvito said:
^ WP7 games are great if you are a solo gamer. everything else is a opinion.
The funny thing is, Android and Apple come up more in the WP7 forums than WP7.
This is supposed to be the most biased part of XDA, but even in here there is not much love for WP7.
You have to admit WP7 has faults, and sucks in a lot of areas, especially sales.
Microsoft is clearly targeting the masses, but the problem is the OS doesn't appeal to the masses. Exactly like Zune.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course it has it's faults but no more so than any other mobile OS. There's not much love because a lot of people come in with the sole purpose of trolling the WP7 forums. I proceed to feed the trolls because it is my nature to debate but that's just me. The OS doesn't appeal to the masses because what did they have as a foundation? Windows Mobile is what everyone thinks and what part of the masses wants to use that aside from a select few masochists? I cannot, however, think of any area in which WP7 "sucks" I've never been more pleased with a device than the DVP and even that joke of a phone the "surround" holds a dearer place in my heart than any android phone aside from the G1. I wouldn't really base tech decisions on what the masses go by though I mean nearly two thirds of cellphone users don't own toilets. WP7 is a valid contender that just showed up late to the game but has all the makings of a great OS. The UI is leagues ahead of any other and it's only got room to improve whereas android is likely just going to continue doing pallet swaps and calling them updates like Gingerbread.
^ You sound like a Zune advocate from 2006. WP7 is headed down the exact same road as Zune. Great reviews, great UI, terrible sales.
If WP7 catches up to Bada, maybe then it would be a serious contender.
You don't seem to understand it, you need the masses if you want to survive in the mobile world.
z33dev33l said:
Apple does make great hardware but unfortunately the screen is too tiny for my taste and I like a hardware keyboard. As for the software argument I do disagree, I find windows infinitely better in terms of a desktop OS and apples UI is a joke of jumbled unorganized garbage on phones though the rest of it is quite nice.
+1 on the small screen and lack of hardware keyboard. think of the two very simple things apple could do to make an even more killer handset.... ohhh it would be nice.
Yes, Balmer is our mascot. Loving the valid arguments. Android is juvenile because despite the fact that we've had OSes with no concern of lag for about 4 to 5 years now there is still not an android device that is lag free. The only reason the OS is so popular is because it's open. Of course if it wasnt open then it would be mocked due to the fact that all of the defalt stuff is a joke and the lag is miserable.
i'm not getting the lag argument. i see it alot (the argument) but currently don't experience it on two g2's, a nexus one, or a g1. the g1 is generally slower, but lag - where ? switching from one app to another ? loading an app in particular ? i don't see it.
Again, you confuse the OS with something else. First it's a mascot then it's business practices. The OS is uncoordinated because there is absolutely zero uniformity across the system. It's disgusting.
uniformity across what system ? the UI ? the operating system ? the updating system ? i'm prolly already agreeing here, just not sure which one specifically.
People expect android with a functional foundation and that was never what WP7 was supposed to be. It's an OS that devs want to develop for because hey, I can't get any app I want for free on it. Can't wait for more stuff at an ilomilo quality, android gets a decent game once every few months. WP7 usually scores at least once or twice a month with a good one.
can't argue this part at all, i don't install games. even the desktop has no games. hmm, maybe i need some ...
I guess you could say I'm pro-windows because I'm a gamer and for that there really is no other valid option. Windows may have been garbage a decade ago but it was still the only viable option for gamers then as it is now. It's funny that you mention androids simplicity though. I never considered having to install a new client for everything on the device easy and I have yet to see any real innovation on androids part. It plays like a finger friendly WM with a market. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, that hack only enables HSUPA which is still part of 3G, not HSPA+. Even the new AT&T 4G phones actually can't get any HSPA+ speed yet, not to mention HSUPA are still disabled on those phones. I feel sorry for those owners. I will not consider any HSPA+ phones as true 4G. Only LTE.
ohgood said:
i can dig the gamer's perspective (win vs the world), i always figured a console would make more sense (see, i know nothing about games). i'm using native applications for sms, mms, ftp, email, browsing, etc. the 3rd party stuffs are kinda annoying to me usually. they try to do too much, in too convoluted ways.
you're right about android being very finger friendly- but the market (apps anyway) is lacking. apple owns this, completely. i honestly think android needs 5 years to catch up in quality of applications (if ever) and that wp7 just never will, too little, too late.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree that they're too little too late. Android was 2 years late and offered a lot less than WP7 does and look where it is now. WP7 is already doing better in pretty much all departments than android was doing at this time and it's only got room to improve. Windows has all the money and resources necessary to force this thing to succeed once they get their head on straight.
Aaron McCarthy said:
The Focus can do 4G.... its just throttled down by default. Go into the Focus subforum and search for HSPA+ or something like that. By going through the diagnostics you can enable it if you have a Samsung Focus....
My wife and I both have the focus and I did the change and she didnt. My phone regulary has 2 times faster internet then she does.
I just tested and on mobile speed test it says my speed is 2862 kbps... they have 2500 kbps listed as their 4G speed
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The Focus is capable of HSPA (HSPDA and HSUPA enabled), not HSPA+ (an evolution of HSPA). Even if it did have HSPA+, that's not 4G although T-Mobile (and consequently, AT&T) market it as such.
Real 4G (LTE) speed will be capable of speeds that'll make you consider replacing your high speed internet at home.
Michael.
deadwrong03 said:
hopefully with a front facing camera?
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The code is apparently now there to support them in future hardware:
http://windowsphone.mobilitydigest.com/windows-phone-7-to-support-front-facing-cameras/
Of course, since I'm on Sprint that means I can exhaust a 2-year contract waiting them to come to "The NOW Network" (ironic name, eh?).
Hi fellow WP7ers,
This kind of ignorance doesn't usually bother me, Windows Mobile was ignored continuously, despite it being one of the most important advances in phones ever. However I can't help but name and shame the two particular staff I came into contact to in Phones 4 U in Lincoln city centre, Lincolnshire, UK.
I was shopping with my mother, she wanted a new phone (an iPhone, but who can blame her these days). I thought it would be a great chance to see the new WP7 phones in action. I suggested that they compare WP7 and the iPhone, to give it a fair chance, she had already tried Android, and like many, she found it far too busy and complicated. My request was immediately met with a blank stare.
The salesperson, confused by the words 'windows phone', asked another female salesperson for assistance. He then explained that he and his colleague had both been given a free WP7 (I assume in an attempt to help them sell the phones). He had never even turned his on. A phone salesperson who had never used or tried to use a WP7 device, rather sticking with his iPhone like the sheep he was.
The girl used her WP7 phone and seemed to quite like it. However she had no idea how to sell it, it seemed it was the first time she had ever used it as she sluggishly tried to navigate the menus explaining features briefly as she found them.
My mother opted to pay the ridiculous contract fee set by Apple for their iPhone 4, deeming the 4S to be a bit too expensive. For almost half the price she could have walked away with a windows phone, even a monkey could have sold it based on the price of the contract alone. However these monkeys, paid to sell windows phones, couldn't even come up with a basic sales pitch.
I ask, how can windows phone ever hope to compete with iPhone if our sales people ignore all commission and incentives to blindly sell based on their very limited opinionated experiences?
The ignorance of being given a windows phone for free in order to sell it, but never even turning it on just infuriated me! These were two staff that had been selected by phones 4 U to be ambassadors for WP7, and they can't be bothered.
All they could do was go through the features of the iPhone 5 update, calling them 'new' and 'unique' despite every one of them being taken stright from WP7, WM6 or android!
They even used the phrase 'windows phone is just like your windows pc'.
In what way do you think they were referring to?
Carrier sales reps are the worst for that. Here at AT&T they don't bother with iPhone sales because it sales it self so the first thing they will steer you to even if you want the iPhone is the biggest Android phone which is the SGS2. If you ask about WP7 phones they say nobody likes those.
Microsoft is suppose to be helping with sales now and to fix the ignorance.
Crazy.lol. interesting story. I myself went to my local best buy a couple of times in the last month asking about windows phone 7. Both times i was turned away. Apparently they dont have any in stock.
Shame...really wanted to try it out too.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
It doesn't help that windows phone is also fragmented. I had some friends that wanted to get a windows phone and since a few retailers are STILL selling outdated Windows Mobile 6.5 it gets confusing to the average person what to look for when shopping unless they "research" first.
You don't have to do this with Iphone and only have to slightly with Droid.
Another complaint I hear constantly from people that use mine and have their own "free with contract" windows phone is they hate the lack of customization. They see all the pretty things their friends can do with Droid (because they had a guy like me that understood how the phone works and how to do that) and they usually the first thing I am asked is, "Can you put droid on this?"
Plus you have to take into account Windows Phone 7 is still very much in its infancy. Look at the early days of Droid and Iphone the OS was awful, had no customization, and generally irritated the average user. WP7 is in that same spot right now. Mango was nice sure, but it didn't really bring anything new or remarkable to the table.
Last but certainly the most annoying thing is when was the last time you ever saw a Windows Phone 7 commercial? Seriously I hear commercials on the radio and TV CONSTANTLY for iPhone 4s and the latest and greatest DROOOIIIIIDDD! Hell I even see these commercials at the frakkin movie theater! The only time I have ever seen a WP7 commercial was ONCE on Hulu of all places. Microsoft needs to get it together and blast the media, blast the airwaves, and show the world WP7 is a great handset and not just another gimmick phone like WM 6.5 or the now defunct Kin.
On all fronts it's like Microsoft is not even attempting to try and fight the big players and instead just flooding the market with another "smartphone." They need media, advertising, and a truly killer phone to be relevant and motivate people to want a Windows Phone.
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
vetvito said:
C'mon, Wm wasn't a gimmick. I loved that OS.
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WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
htc9420 said:
WM 6.5 is still years ahead of iOS5&ICS and centuries ahead of WP7, and I'm not gonna start trolling over this.
2008-2009 WM was what Android is now. In the worst sense possible. Plenty of handsets, ZILLIONS of custom ROMS and MEGA ZILLIONS of skins-releasea every second.
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Maybe for certain abilities, WinMo exceeds. But for quality, reliability and user experience, there is nothing that exists or has existed that beats WP7 w/Mango. All of the claimed polish that iOS has truly exists in WP7. And WinMo was anything but quality and user experience.
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
vetvito said:
^ smartphones were actually smart back then. They UI was designed for a stylus, so yeah it sucked. IPhone changed that.
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Do you know what Sega's game and console design philosophy was when they were still in the hardware business...expecially with the Dreamcast? It was very simple: Make the controller with very few controls or buttons and make games to compensate with better, more intelligent control. A single button should be made to control the maximum amount of functions as possible. Basically making the software do all of the thinking rather than cluttering up the physical controller with buttons and switches.
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
I agree all sales reps do is iPhone! For some reason Apple is revolutionary when they do something that's already been done. For example: Notification Bar! (Android had that from the start) 8MP Camera(I know android phones had it far before) Honestly iPhones are way over thought and it doesn't help that everyone is devoloping apps for Apple, I would like a WP7 but since they came on so late there is little to no apps and I saw the prices for apps and its outrageous. Once more, when the iPhone 5 comes out it will more than likely steal the live wallpapers and Widgets and somehow people will think that apple did something revolutionary once more.
Sent from my Revolting Revolution using 4GLTE network that iPhones DONT HAVE.
Windows Phone has a few things fighting against it. First most people have no clue what a "smart" phone really should do beyond be pretty. Like vetvito says, Windows Mobile 6.5 was a real smart phone features wise. A smart phone that sells well in today's market (to the masses) is all about social media, music and games. People don't even try to find out all the things their phones can or cannot do. That is why Apple can get away with saying the features they pilfer from Android, Palm and Microsoft are "new and revolutionary". For all of us, we know that is a lie, but the general public has no clue.
Secondly, the carriers and store representatives have no desire to sell them. Even when given incentives, they don't try. It is as if no one wants Microsoft to have a foothold in the market anymore. Here in the States Verizon and TMobile are so married to the Android platform almost nothing else gets marketing. I say this even as Verizon has the Iphone boosting it's sales numbers. TMobile is so married to the Android platform they they aren't getting HTC's flagship phone the TITAN even though the last high powered breakthrough phone HTC Windows phone sold out for months straight (HTC HD2). While Apple hasn't made a iPhone compatible with their network, you would think TMobile USA would double up and fight back with every weapon available. Instead they ignore Windows Phone in both marketing and in store supplies. AT&T is getting the TITAN, but there is no advertising for it. iPhone sales have filled their coffers and non exclusivity hasn't hurt them a bit. They simply don't care. To be honest I've felt ATT has wanted to buy TMobile USA as a tactic backed by Apple in and attempt to eliminate a good amount of Android sales -but I'm a conspiracy theorist!
Third we have the issue of Microsoft looking lost behind Ballmer whether they really are or not. Steve Ballmer simply doesn't exude confidence to the average person when he speaks. Couple this with his continued business plan of leaving the success of Windows Phone up to the OEM's, even though it hasn't been successful for this platform, showing either a lack of desire for Windows Phone to really dominate/compete, total incompetence or both.
Lastly, we have the geek to public communication aspect. Geeks have adamantly declared anything from Microsoft dead in the water at launch. Who cares if they are on the XBox 6-8 hours a day right? I am not really surprised because the hate for Windows Mobile and Windows Phone here on XDA from the Android crowd is just a "window" of what the general public is being told and sold. Android fanboys and zealots world wide have done a great job of destroying any good will there was for the Windows mobile platform, a feat they couldn't accomplish vs Apple and their marketing machine. What really is crazy about this is how similar Android really is to Windows Mobile, including instability and customization. How similar you say? Enough for Microsoft to negotiate deals with just about every major and minor Android handset manufacturer for a cost paid to MS for every Android handset manufactured/sold due to intellectual property patent infringements and future patent protection from Microsoft. Basically Microsoft is making money hand over fist with nearly every Android handset sold. I wonder when the geeks are going to start telling all their friends that?
MartyLK said:
This is what I see with WP7. It may appear to be simple and lacking on the surface, but the software is doing more than anything else before it. That's a true "smartphone". A smartphone doesn't need to be filled with surface controls and menus to be smart. No way was WinMo smarter than WP7.
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It's always interesting to see how "smart" means different things for different people. And actually how this definition evolves.
I will stick to my definition which basically says smart = can do more.
In this regard WP7 is like an idiot. WM was amazing OS, really super capable.
you have a great point, i love my windows phone to death but i think that they will be able to attack worlwide markets with nokias help since nokia a good brand in other parts of teh world this will help windows phone a lot. THe only way they can break through in america is with sexy looking devices(like the nokia n9 the sea ray will be that) and some crazy marketing until then windows phone won't gain traction
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
Looks like MS is trying to do something about WP7's visibility.
http://gizmodo.com/5852497/confused...ws-store-is-hanging-around-their-free-concert
Oh? Another of these threads...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
doministry said:
Especially when most WP7 phones are boring and not exciting.
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Cuz iOS is really exciting? If Apple does not do something more with the UI of iOS they will find themselves starting to decline. Thinking up of fancy handset designs will become increasing hard and the day you miss is the day you are in trouble.
Look, I love Windows Phone, admitted from afar, but let us not kid ourselves. Windows Phone is not selling well because it is the new kid on the block in a world of two powerhouses that do alot more.
If you have the choice between Product A or B that both do a whole lot, satisfy most user's needs fully, and are very popular, there is very little reason to swing out and pick Product C. That goes for Bada OS, WebOS, Meego, or any other new OS.
The most compelling reason to buy into Windows Phone is it gives users Android-like handset options with an iOS control philosophy. It will take a little while for that angle to penetrate the market.
But imagine iOS but with a more interesting user interface and handset choices from all the major brands (and an ace in the pocket in Nokia). That is Windows Phone. Solid foundation, great hardware support, rich daddy.
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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Maybe you can't. Some people just can't see the bigger picture. Look going forward. Not just with Nokia's huge reach, but Windows 8 release. Do you not realize how many developers will have access to Windows Phone just because of its similarities and integration into future Windows releases? The fact that people will see the similarities between Win 8 and Windows Phone? Things take time. Even more so now that there are TWO giant smart phone OS's and not just the iPhone like with Android's first outing.
Android still doesn't have 500,000 apps either. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
vetvito said:
But you can't imagine. WP7 doesn't have a hàlf million apps, and developers, or public interest. Lets not kid ourselves as you put it.
Its not even the third option as other OS's are beating it. So let's be honest.
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WinMo never had the amount of apps WP7 currently has. I think of the 30+ thousand apps in the WP7 market as amazing. No exaggeration. It's purely amazing there are that many apps in under 1 year. I expect that by this time next year there will be 3 times as many or more.
And a significant number of apps in the WP7 market are high-value apps that the other markets have. WinMo never had these high-value apps.
EDIT - added a screenshot of the latest numbers.
---------- Post added at 08:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------
dtboos said:
Android didn't have 500,000 apps either, and now it does. Seriously there seems to be no pleasing some people. Needs to have 500,000K apps in first month, needs to have 50% market in first year.......
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Actually no. Android currently has under 300,000 apps. iOS has 500+ thousand apps.