Ok, there is something that I want to say.
I know I'm not making myself popular with this post, but I wasn't very happy lately with the comments or the reaction from some fellow Xda-Dev members lately...
This should be a community, where we learn and help each other.
Where we can share knowledge and cool roms (like Toms...) or apps (like Tene's...) etc...
But lately I feel like there are less real Xda-Dev members which appreciate the work and effort, those wizards out there make for us.
Only peoply always complaining about "the need of BETTER beta-testers", is it because these people couldn't test it before a release and are jalous??? Or people complaining about some bugs, and keep asking 100000... times about why there is this bug, how to fix it, or why don't you fix it?? etc... well, let me tell you a BUGFREE rom most likely wouldn't excist... and if you can do it better, why don't you put your TIME and EFFORT in it and make a fix for it... or better make a Rom and share it with us... let's see if you can make a bugfree cool rom??!!
Or people asking 100000... times when will there be a German version of this rom or a Dutch rom or etc... Or why put these apps in a specific rom? etc...
I'm just wondering, do all these people always send 100000... mails to HTC or Microsoft to ask them, why a specific app is in a rom? Why there are these bugs, why this, why that???
I'm just saying why don't we all just show some respect and appreciation to those wizards. To those whom sacrafise a lot of time and work into a project and share it to us for free. Off course I understand, the feedback we all give to these wizards will maybe help them to create a better version or help them make a fix for a bug. But there is some difference between giving feedback and just being a child and complaining ...
I opened this thread, because I feel sorry for Tom (and other wizards)... if you see the post on threads from his roms... more than half is just crap... is just people asking the same thing over and over again... I'm not sure about Tom, but I know I would get it on my nerves when I made something for a community and this would be the reaction... I would ask myself, if it's still worth it to invest so much time into something for all those people...
I used to looking forward to be able to logon on XDA Dev... but lately, I notice that even I got the time for it, I just don't feel like to logon... cause most likely I will missed a page or 2 or 3... but I'm sure I wouldn't miss any potential information...
This post is dedicated to all those Wizards out there... and I'm sorry... I'm sorry there are a lot off people just don't know how to show some respect to you... I hope I still can learn from you, and to use the cool apps and roms from you...
But I must admit, even I'm doubting, will I still comming back to this forum... or should I just leave it???
Just my 2 cents...
100 % agree with you....
Cheers!
you are talking right out of my heart.
i personally tend to ignore all those "but it has a bug!!11!!1" or "i donated few euros now i WANT that feature and i want it NOW" folks. but you are right: it starts to kill the core of the community.
lets all be unpopular together......
...I agree with everything you say cg...pointing out a problem and making the dev aware is one thing - complaining is another completely.
The amount of posts on this website pushing Tom Codon to release his 4.1 rom was stupid...when its ready its ready. If you don't want to wait - install a factory rom and stop whining.
I also have no problem (we've all done it) in asking a question because you can't find an answer...the main point being "if you can't find an answer" - a lot of people tend not to search and fill the forums with duplicate posts.
So...in conclusion....i may not be a regular poster, but I really enjoy reading almost every post on this site - but when you we are in a position when a poster such as coolgadget is thinking of leaving - we need to pay attention...
imagine what would happen in Tom decided to leave - or any of the other cookers - maybe thats what some of the people on here need before they realise what these guys do.
Rant over
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
I am on your side - only someone with your reputation is able to say that!!
Thank you my friend.
We all have to organize and discipline us in order to get a forum with easy readable informations which helps the community.
Not only consuming and defining requirements is here the right way!!!
Nobody does this in relation to HTC or Microsoft - and Tom and all the other devs work very hard (somtetimes day and night) - they should have the change to concentrate on cooking good roms - not discussing the same problems again and again.
Bottlm Line!
That my Friend is the bottom Line.
I always come on here with intentions of helping out anyone I can. I have been testing with Cool Gadget for a while; he and I have the same feelings here. I am literally drained when it comes to trying to read through the release posts.
I lose my confidence in this community when I read some of the statements, complaints and out right rude comments left by some users.
I appreciate every ones interest, and inpatients for the next release, I don’t condone it at all, but I do get it. You can be anyone you want to be on the internet, some choose to be who they really are, while some cant help but to be that person...
In short, Cool has this right on, I would repost it and change the name just to be the first to say it.
Please people, show a little respect and integrity, it really goes a long way
Thanks Coolgadget for posting this.
Even the original rom of HTC has bug's
Can we make this post sticky?
Ps. it's my 100 post
RE: Coolgadget
True, but might some people say this and that cus they would like to help work of the creator, and not cus they want to blame his work. Have you ever thought about that? And maybe these forums are for not only but for this reason as well, to let the developers help each other, let the users help each other, let the developers help the users and MAYBE vica verse.
Maybe I am wrong.
Regards,
Miklos
biou said:
I think your post will make you very popular and make you many friend.
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i also agree, it's not really fine to search in a thread with about 100pages and the most asked question is really "when do you make german rom", "and found this bug", etc it's really true. It's not comfortable to find real interestening threads. And such statements are totally useless for everybody. I like your point of view!
moderators can edit complains & ****ty comment away.
i was a moderator for a long time on a board, we made some rules.
There rules where simple, follow them or get a warning, still not listening, they got banned.
the normal respected members will always follow the rules.
the ones that are *****ing, making lame & dumb comments will eventually make place for the people that DO want to contribute in a healthy way
look at some of the new members their lame posts....
they are just joining to complain, say this is bad, this isn't good... bladiebladiebla...not good for the health of a community imo
serious, they need to give all the guys that are working on things like this in their spare time some credit.
Complaining & whining..... for stuff that is free....what a bunch of assholes
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
itje said:
Good post man
I agree, but I guess its not easy for all newcomers (me included) to fully understand how much work is beeing put into cooking roms, hacking progz to make them better, and so on.
Havent we all been a nOOb? lol, im still one, but I feel like im climbing upwards to a higher plain of existence ( ) the more I read on this forums.
I didnt fully understand (do I yet?) before starting to cook for myself, even though I am provided by tools like the HyperCore kitchen by anichillus, I can see that its still damn much to learn, and that it takes alot of time. Cant even imagine how much hours the pros in here has used, and for free. Amazing..
Maybe we should start a "Guide how to..." section on frontpage, making a part called TouchFlo, one called dialer, one called commManager and so on.
Posting sollutions found in.ex on how to install the touch dialer on a fresh official rom and so on.
And why not let that be readable for everyone, but posting restricted to senior members?
There it could be posted answers for all the common questions ppl would have.
If that could be done, im sure the sections would be easier to scroll through, not having to read 100000 posts asking whythisandwhythathowtopleasethx.....
I dont think the forums will ever get rid of the newcomers asking alot of questions, over and over again. Like me Sending PMs to the wizards, asking questions (that im stupid enough to belive that 1000 others have not asked them about before) about how to....and so on
cheers masters
And Coolgadget, dont leave, we need you here.
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Yes i can follow you but there is a difference between the guys trying to initiate active (proactive) communication and that one which are only consuming!
coolgadget and chandlercjh
I'm in total agreement with you both in all your comments above. If people would only show some patience here especially with Tom and the work he is doing at this great forum... its would be a very sad day if he or any of the other senior members decided to leave. I don't make many posts on here but I am a regular reader and absolutely love the site. I just hope that more people show respect and an ability to use the search function... and i dread the nonsense we will have to read when we near v4.2 of Tom's great ROM.
Agreed fully
Hello Friend;
I completely agree with you.Its not fair that people who make ROM's and other apps are always crucified or pressured.Many time the same questiona are answered previously.But no one wants to read it,it seems.But another thing to be high lighted is that many people can't speak English well.This some time lead to messages which seems arrogant.But I have to agree the message u posted(I saw it before in forum) is the result of a gigantic ego and big mouth.He doesn't even pay anything for the ROM(forgetting a few bucks of Donations) and daring to complain like this.As u say such people can make their own ROM's and make it perfect and don't stop complaining.
And please remember that there are much more people here who are your fans and looks up to you.So please don't be bothered and continue your good work.
Regards and have a nice day.
My alplogies for my following comment as I am quite new here in the forum as well.
I completely agree with these statements here. It looks very childish (to put it in polite words) what many of the members write in their posts when they cry for tthe ROM in another language (you didn't learn english in school??).
Tom is doing a great job and he is ALWAYS polite. Try to behave in the same way!!!
For the beta-tester critics, I just like to mention that the SW from very big companies is also far away from being bug-less.
To mention I sent 10 bucks please provide me with this or that is ***
Come on, go in a restaurant and buy a coffe. What do you get for this money.
My impression is, Tom is doing this because he likes to do it, to share it and to contribute to a comunity. I call this respect. So, show him your respect as well.
Donate to show your respect to him and not because you want something.
my 2 cents in R-E-S-P-E-C-T,
g-fall
Try to imagine XDA WITHOUT Tom
Hi there,
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.
We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
In a recent post (some of you might even remember that) I have publicly suggested Tom to go to the beach instead of "wasting" his time following useless remarks of some outstandingly tactless XDA forum members.
All this TO NO AVAIL... Tom is a big-hearted and professional young man who LOVES EVERYBODY, kind and mean alike, generous and stingy alike!
Tom insisted and decided to continue HELPING EVERYONE 4 FREE... Isn't that magnificent?!?
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
In the "Donations to Tom Codon" thread (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=1471616&posted=1#post1471616) I have just posted how important nice and encouraging words are to Tom... I would almost dare to define them just as valuable as generous financial donations.
I thank you all once more for the understanding and support shown so far (and OBVIOULSY for the one you will keep on showing ) and I wish you a great day.
SiperX
I completely agree with the comments made in this post and I apologise for not having any input myself. Tom does indeed make some great roms that make the XDA Orbit/P3300, or whatever you want to call it, a far more useable piece of technology. I am surprised that the likes of O2, T-Mobile or HTC haven't jumped at the chance to showcase how enthusiasts are developing and pushing the boundaries with their technology.
I do think that one of the problems is language and that some people, whose first language is not English, may come across as quite rude when they perhaps don't mean to. This does not excuse peoples inability to use the search function or the ones that are blatantly rude and I would suggest that the mods here clamp down and ruthlessly delete both the rude posts and those that ask the same questions time and time again. Perhaps a sticky in the most common languages on how to use the search function might go some way to highlighting the problem and how it is ruining the forum.
I am not saying that there are not faults with the roms and that Tom does not require feedback; all I am saying is that those that can not offer useful input, who are rude or constantly demand things are not actively allowed to ruin threads.
My life with the Orbit would be far less interesting without Tom's work.
Many thanks and I will donating come payday.
What my dear personal friend Coolgadget apparently forgot to mention is that in a recent conversation we had with Tom -after having read some REALLY NASTY & RUDE posts- we urged him to leave and start using his valuable time to do better things rather than "attempting" to please the varied XDA crowd.We also tried to persuade him to charge a minimum fee for each download.
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hi SiperX and Coolgadget I can only request you to ignore those NASTY & RUDE comments as there are always some ants in heaven.Either we can put negative points for such whiners after a level they will be banned or just ignore it.I kindly request you not to be affected by these remarks by some IDIOTS who think they can have their way.
Coolgadget (just like myself) gained among certain "noble" XDA groups a fair degree of unpopularity because of his straightforward writing style, because his posts are always right to the point and MOSTLY because he knows what kind of pain Tom has to "digest" when some people POST FASTER THAN THEY CAN THINK.
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For this I consider you and others who male this forum a big contribution.But please remember there are many who admire you too.I admire Tom and his works.Not just him the forum itself and many volunteers who make apps in their free time and distribute it freely.
Please remember that this forum will never be the same if people like Tom or Coolgadget will decide to leave!!!
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I hope that day never comes.Is there anything we can do to help you?
FYI
this matter seems resolved
Forewarning: This is going to be a rant but please take it lightly. I mean no harm and this isn't in direct relation to any specific entity but as a community together. This isn't going to be a perfect how to and will lack a lot of structure and information. I just really want to get a point across, that's all. Admin's, please don't ban me for this either. If there's something wrong, message me and I'll alter it or remove it. I'm genuinely fed up and as a moderator I'm sure that you'll understand at least a few points in this post.
I've been coming to this website for the last few years on and off, between phones and to check up on reviews and content before I make a purchase. XDA-Developers is a fantastic site, however it has a long way to go as a community. I appreciate the developers and the work that everyone within this community put into enhancing our products. From mods that give us basic features, because let's face it, huge companies aren't that great - to the point of adding features that no one thought was previously possible. We have fantastic developers and community members here everyday putting in their hard work and effort to better us and to improve.
However, I feel like there's something lacking. Lacking by a large amount. I feel like some people are mentally challenged. Half assed and lazy. Rude. Arrogant. Fools. The list goes on for words that are degrading to ones self and to tell you the truth, I'm absolutely sick of it. This is a forum dedicated to information, mods, releases and ideas. Yet we have, almost the entire time, people complaining, winging, throwing racist, sexist and abusive slurs around. Thank God for the moderators! BUT!! It has to stop.
I'm sick of coming to this site, trying to find a new ROM or an awesome mod and having to sift through HUNDREDS of repeated questions, over and over and over. Tens of pages, often hundreds for big general threads. I don't care if you hate people of a different skin colour, or if you think that such and such developer's kids are a bunch of brats. Those types of discussions have NO PLACE for a website like this.
When I go ROM shopping, I'll go to the index thread because I don't frequent this site and sifting through the correct sub-forums and all the useless threads, all the threads that have the same topic as the one before it and so forth, well, it's just a lot easier for me. From that index thread, I'll have a few dozen tabs open. Though I'll immediately close any tabs that DON'T HAVE information about the ROM or Mod. The features it has. Change logs and or screenshots. I'm generally left with anywhere between two to five threads. That's a lot of work being overlooked because YOU as a developer don't incorporate that into your main post or anywhere that's readily available.
Then you'll have hundreds of users asking the same question and before you know it, that six hundred page thread on your ROM could really be one or two pages at most. Please, for the love of God, add information. If you're going to make the effort to developer or alter software, at least give us information about what you have done. Sure it's a lack on my part, but you're not going to go door knocking to sell your vacuum if your vacuum is in a box with a questionmark and all you say is that it's good for people who live at home, are you? What's in the box? What features does it have? How have you altered it? What's the best way to obtain it? Simple things that I see EVERYDAY that people don't seem to give a rats ass about.
There was a developer here recently that created the ONLY ROM that I was happy using on my LG G3. He ended up stopping his work because people would post abuse and not follow some simple rules that he laid out. YOU as a community, drove a fantastic developer away, and you only have YOURSELF to blame. But what can you do about that? CHANGE!!
You make a choice, everyday to do the things you do. Don't ever blame someone else and please be kind to one another. Encourage each other to produce better work! Encourage each other to outperform, to go past your barriers. I'm sick of going to forum sites and reporting people for calling others idiots because they mistakenly overlooked the download section, or their Adblocker stopped the download server page for loading which is something that happens all the time and not a lot of people know that's the cause. We all make mistakes, everyday, I'm sure you ( the ones calling others idiots ) do things just as idiotic but in a different fashion.
So, what are some simple things we can do to enhance the quality of XDA Developers?
1.) If you're a developer -
- Lay out your threads nicely. Formatting is essential. If I wrote this entire thread without paragraphing, I assure you no one would read it.
- Take the opportunity to learn photoshop for nice visuals, or at least take screenshots!! I hate going through a 45 minute install only to find out that it looks terrible.
- INFORMATION!!! CHANGE LOGS!!! LINKS!!!
- Make it clear about what you are doing and what your goals are, what do you hope to achieve?
- Give us a bit of background - it's always a nice added bonus to read. Just a short paragraph. Sometimes it helps, it's like hearing an annoying sound, but once you know what that sound is, it doesn't disturb you.
2.) If you're a user -
- Don't be racist, sexist, abusive.
- Be KIND TO ONE ANOTHER.
- Research!! Take a second to read the first few posts of a thread, not everything is in the first post as some people like to lay things out over two or three with a reserve.
- Don't be afraid to ask questions, and don't be afraid to answer them! For every question you ask, make the effort to answer two others.
- If someone calls you an idiot, report them, don't fuel the fire.
3.) For everyone -
- Don't post something that doesn't; add to the topic, benefit anyone, isn't genuine.
- Be kind.
- Follow the rules.
- Open your eyes.
- INFORMATION!!! This is a site full of it. Acquire its potential.
- Think about what you post.
- Proof read what you've put up!!!!!! I can't comment on how many times I've sat there for half an hour trying to figure out what the developer is trying to say.
With all that said, I hope you all have a fantastic day / night and stay safe, stay hydrated. Sleep well and eat well. Your brain works better if you do, or at least eat a Snickers chocolate bar.
Tldr version, devs post more info/screenshots on your roms, members, respect devs and other forum members.
Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.
RYARNI said:
Ignoredddd. You going for some sort of internet upvote award, maybe change a few words, post it on reddit, and add some kittens.
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you just proved his point with your comment
Well, unless XDA agrees to put people who don't read into readonly for a week or so, things won't change. Only mass bans and readonlies can make people who don't read and don't listen understand...
@Curleyyy Even though I completely agree with the statements you made and airing off your views is good for sanity, even if you post this epic rant in every thread in the sea of device specific threads on XDA you will never ever change peoples attitudes to forum posting. Frankly you can't call it a true community if everyone has an alias and avatar, we offer information and maybe 90% have a kosher reason or genuine interest with the satisfaction of anonymity, unfortunately with anonymity also comes the troll who comes to spoil the party. This is not Facebook or google+ my friend, it is only an exchange of specific information (with a certain amount of order), an open-source library of sorts, but at least it works and that is a testament to the mods which do a great job filtering out most of the dross!
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