Related
This is meant to be a reminder to all of you. I ask that you pop in the Q&A section as often as possible to help answer questions by members. If we all do that, a significant % of the questions will be answered sufficiently.
Thank you
I hate to be snide, but uh, that section is useless for whats in it. Really. Its like the "General G1 forum", posts get lost in there. There are a LOT of topics in there that should NOT be in there for general, and they dont get answers (not as many) because they are in a random place. Like these for instance:
Code:
Messages will not be erased after soft reset (WM 6.1)
O2 XDA Exec Won't Power On after Unccessfull ROM Upgrade
[WM 6.5] 2 quick questions...
movie player for wm 6.5
6.5 enhancement disabled
Need help with G1
Those are on the first and second page, and they do not belong in there. They have little to no posts because they are "lost". They need to be posting in the forum dedicated to the phone they are having questions/problems with, not in a 'general' section.
Now dont take this as attacking you, no you didnt make the forum. But, for people that [if there are any] control the design, they should not have made that section, or it needs to be moderated better because those topics should not be there.
I went in there to 'help out' as per request, but I couldnt because 80% of the topics are like I mentioned above, ones about specific phones to which I cannot help with.
Not to you, but out loud: Organization is a little dissorganized around here.
My 2 cents.
I've been moderating the Q&A section for a few months now, and no one has ever told me he can't find anything. I answer about 50-70 questions there per week. there are many other people like timmymarsh, joel2009, rudegar, orb3000, deedee, denco7... and more.. who help out on a regular basis. a large % of the questions are answered. I encourage people to post questions regarding specific devices in the dedicated forum, but i'd rather have the Q&A section flooded than all device specific forums.
Most questions are more windows mobile/shell related rather than device related..\
You will also notice, that most questions regarding specific devices are related to non-HTC devices, which we don't support anyways.. so these are just a "if you get your answer.. great" threads.
just help out with what you can and it will be highly appreciated.
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
Dave
DaveShaw said:
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
Dave
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yup. this is exactly it.
thanks for clarifying, Dave
there is also a GUIDES thread over there which i implored people to donate to (donate=writing additional guides) but until now i got got like 1-2 guides from other members.. and the rest were written by myself.
Im sure you guys hate me because I keep going at it, though I just feel either I need to end up seeing your point(s) or you see my point. And I apologize for that. Back to what I was saying:
The whole point of the Q&A forum (IMO, team can correct me if I am wrong) is somewhere for people to ask questions that are short and simple (after searching of course). You ask, someone answers, people move on. It is organised in it's own way and leaves the device forums free for everyone else
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Click to collapse
Though I understand what your saying Dave, I honestly still do not see the point of that forum...atleast with the random posts like I meantioned earlier. Thats how posts get lost.
This topic was created, why? Because supposedly not enough topics are getting attended to. Why is that?
A. The forum is in a random spot to begin with (I actually didnt even know it was there until this topic)
B. On every page there are quite a few "specific" type questions that unless those with the "specific" knowledge look, could only answer. (and it would seem there arent enough of them...)
Also I know if I had a bricked phone (which there are some topics in there like that), I wouldnt want non-experts to tell me how to fix my specific problem. It could make it worse. Allowing 'bricked' topics in a 'general' forum to me is like allowing a chevy owner asking how to swap an engine in a honda forum. Do you think thats smart? Thats asking for more problems. The noobs dont know its a bad idea, but allowing it says its ok.
Rename the forum to "Random Q/A for All Phones", that would make more sense.
Sorry if I seem like im nagging here. I dont intend to. I just feel a dis-oreiented forum is unneeded. Keep the specific questions for the specific forums, thats why they are there (not to keep them free ).
____
As for the guides:
The windows mobile sticky just seems to not fit again. The rest (including the one by you nir (very good btw), all fit. What should be done is this: Make a new category called Phone Operating Systems, and put Windows Mobile in there, then put that random sticky in there. That seems to be what is missing, is an operating category. WM/CE, Android, Symbian, Blackberry OS, Nokia OS, and (probably not necessary at all but is one) iPhone OS [yuk].
That would make things a bit more organized as well.
I laugh, you guys always say search. Why is that? Because things are hard to find sometimes because people dont search. Never 'rely' on people to search, its the worst staff can do. I know this. You have to make it the EASIEST to navigate as possible, because people are lazy to search. Oranizing=less clutter=less work for you guys. All works out for the best.
theslam08 said:
This topic was created, why? Because supposedly not enough topics are getting attended to. Why is that?
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Click to collapse
It's not because there was a massive amount of unanswered questions... (We're not a support desk, we don't have targets ). It's because there was not a place for new users, with less knowledge than most, to post quick questions. People on the site needed general device question and answers (not device specific). These were mostly asked in the D&H forum which became very cluttered with random questions, flame replies. D&H is too popular to support quick questions, so Q&A was a way to tidy it. You're quite right when you say you would not want someone helping you unbrick your device who doesn't know it, and I wouldn't expect someone to post in Q&A if they did (I maintain the Kaiser Unbricking thread BTW ). The Forum caption on the Index says: "This forum is for all questions, big or small, you might have. Please read the rules in this forum before asking.". The Q&A rules are here : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=441333
I think it is good for the lesser experienced users to ask questions about apps / settings, and in time, searching Q&A will yield some good answers to questions.
Hope this clears things up a bit
Dave
EDIT: Off to bed it's 1am, I'll try and answer anything else tomorrow
i agree
i can see the point of the forum, it helps us to help them it directs the quesiotns away from other forums that are not for questions
and its beeen running for a fair while and ive helped (ill forgive you for forgetting me nir) and people appreciate the help they get
and as for having non experts fix bricked devices
if youve bricked it then youve been doing something you shouldnt have been doing (from a legal stance) so giving it to the experts would be foolish as i know for a fact the can charge extra for doing flashes
FYI ive read and asked questions and ive never bricked a device once EVER
im not saying i never will, but if i do ill blame myslef as ill have not followed directions
You're right. i apologize for forgetting. there are probably a few others whom i've forgotten as well.
i was only kidding ive not been there as much as i used to lately then i decided to learn how to cook
I'm sure all of you are getting sick of the flood of questions that come in and the single question and answer thread is just too long to go through to find questions let alone answer them. Hopefully we can get enough people on board to let the moderators know that this is a welcome addition. Seeing as how many phones have highest number of threads in the Q&A section, I think it is a worthy addition.
Problems:
1) Lack of moderation - the volume of posts, especially from new users is higher than the what can reasonably be moderated by the current number of moderators.
2) Relevant threads containing real information are buried by new threads (many which are off topic or not posted in the correct forum)
3) The forum is disorganized, which exacerbates the issue of new users asking duplicate, off topic, poor, misinformed questions.
4) There is an incredible lack of information for new users on usage, which creates a contentious atmosphere between new users and senior members who re-answer the same questions over and over, most of the time about HOW to use the forum and search features.
5) User modifiable resources like the wiki are unknown or obfuscated from new and long time members alike, thus rarely used. (On a side note....we should all be using the wiki to push pertinent information, valueable posts, references and guides up so that noobs (and experienced users also) can find them easier.)
Proposed Solutions:
1) Create additional subforums to help organize posts into relevant categories. (I vote for at least Q&A. MOST popular forums on XDA have this, so there is certainly precedent.)
2) Better sticky posts, with clearer titles. "Hello from your moderator." is not as clear to a new user as "[MANDATORY README]-[FORUM RULES][QUESTIONS][INSTRUCTIONS][If you don't read this you will be flamed, harrassed, possibly shanked in your sleep!]" You are reading this thread because of the title...that or you saw the DVDA postfix...you sick sick bastard...either way I win.
3) More moderators. It is far too hard for Whosdaman to constantly update sticky posts with relevant info. It is up to everyone here to get that info out so we aren't bombarded with questions that have been answered a hundred times. Wiki anyone?
4) We have a great resource in user editable wiki. There is a lot of stuff that can be done BETTER on a wiki than in a 1000 post thread, like reference material, guides, and instructions. We need to make it obvious to ALL users that the wiki exists and get people on board with updating it. Threads are a great way to hash out possible solutions and have a group discussion, but a lot of times what people need is a reference or guide and they shouldn't have to search a 1000 post thread to pull the relevant information.
5) Original posters need to update their OP when new information is revealed or when there is misinformation in a post. Having a post that's title says your flash cell is about to explode only to have to read 600 posts to find out that this information is untrue helps no one. Discussion is GREAT. Misinformation is NOT, and only fuels the confusion and duplicate thread issues.
From The Front Line:
Thanks for the outpouring of support and ideas to help get the ball rolling. Several of our ideas have been recently implemented so I am really hoping for some good news next war update.
20110109: Woot! We now have Q&A. Thanks mods and supporters!
20110109: My social experiment of double entendre "sticky posts" has 2000 views in only a couple of days. I'm not going to call this one confirmed, but if it stopped even 1 bad thread it was worth it.
20110109: We have sticky wiki in all the subforums. Now we need to add content to the wiki before people stop using it.
One Last Thing:
There are very few things we can change with regard to how many new users visit this forum, or the knowledge level of these users. The only thing we CAN do is make what they need to do as obvious as possible to these users, so that we can spend more time coding and writing relevant posts, instead of redirecting people to the search button, or frustration flaming newbies.
+1 agreed. This is ridiculous, it's a clusterf**k in these forums. Q & A is exactly what we need.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I will say yes to the q&a it will cause less clutter.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what you are saying isn't wrong but i want one
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
plapczyn said:
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
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Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
muyoso said:
Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
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Click to collapse
I agree. Or a sticky at the top of ALL of the subforums linking to the wiki. There used to be a STICKYWIKI post, but the title got changed.
I agree the wiki needs serious editing and updating, and we should all be somewhat responsible. Maybe if you flame a newbie, you have to add a paragraph, like a swear jar smoothone, get typing hahaha.. sorry... had to... but I get the feeling you dont mind.
Honestly, I wish sprint would just say screw you, no froyo. This way, people would move on, keep developing, not thinking to wait on that elusive source code... and stop *****ing. The repeat questions, etc werent that bad until that stupid 26th thing brought a bunch of new people at once, so everyone here who was already waiting and annoyed, then get bombarded with new people who heard about XDA from engadget.
BTW... wheres those two who had those super secret sources?????? Kinda quiet....
Bloggers: do not cite an XDA member, or their word they have a good source unless they show you the goods! Somehow, everyone thinks XDA really knows more than the average joe... and dont trust Sprint sales info or personnel!!!!
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
Instead of making a new forum, we need another moderator added to help manage the forum.
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
othan1 said:
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
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Dumping questions to a Q&A forum creates less clutter for the other forums, thus relevant threads will more likely be in the first two pages.
lazydazed said:
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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I love that idea, but there are occasionally relevant posts from new users. I would like to think that not EVERYONE that initially comes to XDA is a moron. But I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
It looks like a lot of people are in favor of it.
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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Click to collapse
That's ok, as long as the questions aren't in the other forums. But I agree, sticky to the wiki should be on all subforums.
Personally I don't care if the Q&A forum is filled with spam repost topics. All I, and others, want is for the it to be quarantined.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
DiGi760 said:
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
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Exactly my point. Also, as someone mentioned...the cycle of useless questions that cant be prevented will at least be quarantined.
This is for discussion about the recent news that we'll soon be disallowing posts to development forums for new users with 10 posts or less in an attempt to cut down on junk posts.
I believe is a good new way of lowering down the crap-posts
What else a normal member can do to help?
- Report any problematic post by using the "report" button
- Help to improve and maintain a friendly ambiance
Thanks!
>25 would be better.
It sounds very very good. I'd like to suggest a little thing:
is it possible to ban thread with "HELP me please" title?
This type of title is common and doesn't help to focus the problem.
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Daniel, I totally agree with you. These are very valid points. Many people lurk here, mainly because they don't want to look stupid when they ask questions - and then, when they get serious after gaining knowledge here, they try something and they can't post? That isn't right.
The biggest issue here at XDA is what I mentioned above - people are hesitant to post because of the reaction they frequently get - on the flip side, those that do post in the proper areas for questions and answers are lucky if they get answers sometimes, I've had questions go unanswered, when I posted in what I thought was the proper forum (never in the ROM development forums). So what I think you really need to do is to come up with a good support forum for custom ROMs, and have knowledgable people read and help out in there - no matter how 'dumb' the question is in their eyes. From my experience, the only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask. Will that 'cut down' on the 'dumb' questions? Yes, in the ROM development forums it will - only if they're answered elsewhere, however.
You have to remember, Android doesn't come naturally to everyone, some come from other 'worlds' where they know what they're doing, then they're tossed into the thick of it when they try to make the switch (been there, done that). Are there people who really shouldn't be messing with their phones? Of course there are. Is it XDA's job to let them know they're too dumb to be messing? Or is it a better plan to help those people learn? I've always found the latter to be a better plan.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
All I can say is about friken time! I have been discussing this rule with a number of mods for a long long time now and frankly I still think 10 is too low, but its a great start and should cut a lot of the rubbish or at least make some people think twice about where they are posting their questions.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with spock ("Live long and prosper"). For newbies, which I may still be considered, searching the forums is daunting. For example, I have an HD2. I was running Android off of SD for a few months, then just last week took the plunge to NAND. You guys are really making progress on cleaning up the forum structure, because at least now in the HD2 section there are different "development" sections for NAND and SD, etc. BUT, when you are searching for the perfect ROM, it is very confusing with all of the codes in the ROM names. It took me 5 different tries between NAND roms and CWR roms (using clockwork recovery, I'm not THAT DUMB) to finally get one to boot up. I was sweating for a bit!!!
Plus, when you use the search function in the forums, the results very rarely seem to match my search. I understand the experts' frustrations when a newb asks a question or needs help with something that's already been covered, but I have searched numerous times looking for help with bluetooth on a rom, or music skipping, or whatever. Sometimes, I'll take 45 minutes reading through the search results and will realize that none of them are even touching on the subject I was searching for.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for all that the XDA team does. I visit this site daily, and follow the news with RSS on the Google Reader. I love it. But, since you're asking for suggestions, there you are.
;-)
It's a shame that you guys need to enforce this kind of rule but we really do need something to keep this forum in control.
Good job.
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Fair play on attempting something. This is one of a few large community sites I frequent and they all suffer from the problems you describe. Unfortunately no-one has the answer and it is a case of trail and error to find what works.
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
egzthunder1 said:
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post<>opening a new thread.
Let me phrase this:
1. I have been reading the forum for 1-2 weeks.
2. Then I couldn't find the answer and I have opened an account.
3. I want to post a question to the maker of the custom rom.
4. I can't do this!
5. I will post 10 idiotic comments somewhere else to get my right.
Is this what you want? I (you can see all my posts) have never spammed or asked stupid stuff anywhere but a number of posts should be a sign of my maturity? Posting 10 Post gives you little to no sign if the user has and knows how to use search and stay still untill he has read at least 1000 posts!
This is what you should be aiming for.
Just because you can't measure it better doesn't make it valid. It is like giving you no mortgage loan because in your neighbourhood there were 5% not paying it back in time.
egzthunder1 said:
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
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Click to collapse
What does this have to do with my remarks concerning the XDA developer forums?
I do agree with everything you said but "testing" especially means getting feedback from users that can't tell you anymore if "it worked".
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
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Then make inexperienced users stop "opening new threads" instead of "posting answers/making remarks to current threads".
Naren Raj said:
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
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Here is the thing, and probably where lots of people are missing the point here. It isn't a matter of stupid posts. It is a matter of stupid posts in the wrong places. No one is telling you that you cannot ask for help. What we are saying is that, if all search efforts fail, please post in the right place....
seroaddict said:
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
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Well...
My advice to all ROM devs would be to make their own thread in Q&A or general, called [SUPPORT] ROM NAME HERE Support Thread - Latest Version 1.2.3
In there, all users could post, regardless of number of posts. The first post would link to the main ROM, and perhaps contain a FAQ.
In the ROM release in development, have a large link to the Q&A thread at the start and end of the post. That way, those reporting bugs and helping with patches/fixes can post in the development thread, and those needing help can post in the Q&A thread.
Just encourage devs to do something like this
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
I mean something has to be done. But being new to all this rooting, S-OFF etc kind of thing I do consider myself at least somewhat of a greenhorn . I do however try to keep my questions relevant to the topic and try finding the proper topic before placing a question.
But I am also struggling with actually get a proper answer, or an answer at all to some of my questions, making it hard for a new guy (or girl) to transend from being a greenie to actually become more and more knowledgeable over time. I mean if people dont share their knowledge and or their solutions then how are we all to benifit from them.
I do however admit that some form of moderation needs to find place, considering that some of the guides are actually more or less straight forward and quite frankly. If people can't follow a single straight forward guide then perhaps rooting, modding etc is not for them
thefinancemaster said:
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
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It appears to the left of the Quote button.
But IIRC it appears only after 5 posts, as we would have issues with new accounts being made solely to thank their "owner".
You're not far off the thanks button appearing.
I would screenie it, but there's little point. It's to the left of "Edit" for me ("Quote" for you I think as you won't see edit buttons everywhere)
This is your site and your rules. The only question is, that a person like me who has been a member for a short time, but been runing modded rom's for about 5 months (thanks to this site) can't post a question if I did have one. This is my second post, and the first one was to answer a question, I have found everything I needed and every question I had answered by way of reading posts. But if I do have a question I can't ask it because I have not posted alot of BS to get my post count up.
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
Agreed... and to add another question why do some devices have a Q&A sub-section and some not? Seems inconsistent. Anyway the forums are hard to navigate anyway (too many sub-sections, outdated stickies, too many "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST"-threads etc..). I guess at least the Q&A part could be merged with 'General' of every forum. Also Accessoires & Wallpapers/Themes get an extra sub-section? I'd lump everything together and make just two per device (General/Dev).
Oh and don't take this as "This is how you run a forum " - just my humble opinion
Ok. When a device general forum gets over 10,000 posts, or 1000 threads, it gets a Q&A section.
General vs dev only would result in even more junk in both to be fair...
I reckon at present there is a good balance as almost everything is consistent across the site. Go to HTC G1. It has, by and large, the same layout as all other sections.regarding outdated stickies, contact the mod for the relevant section by pm and point it out.
Regarding questions being moved, we can only move what we know about or see... So drop the mod for the section a PM with the threads.
MarkusPO said:
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
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Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
pulser_g2 said:
Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
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Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go? naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
MarkusPO said:
Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
I will look into this. Sounds strange.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
Those threads are pertaining to development, as without a way to root/hack the device, nobody can really develop for it. That's basically the way it's been for ages, so that's unlikely to change.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
You are right, it's hard on occasion to strike a balance, but to be honest, you have no idea what kinds of trolls we get here Most of the time we can sweep away the awful stuff before people see it...
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
Fair point, but we have about 600,000 threads I can assure you we won't be cutting the number of forums per device, as that would make things unmanageable. Regarding the "right sort of forum", will address next. The trouble is that when I want to find some hack or tweak, I go to development. I don't expect to hunt through 200 pages of "I NEED HALLLLLLLLLLLP PLEEEEEEEEEEEZ NAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KTHX" just to find a buried "[Mod] Trackball Wake source edit" or whatever...
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go?
That would go in accessories. To be honest the Q&A is actually for beginner device questions moreso than that. I do see your point here, but I think you are misunderstanding the idea for the Device Q&A forum. If you want to ask "how do I flash a ROM on SPL v0.1", then Q&A is the place to go If you are more asking about a theme, then themes & apps is the place to ask it (provided it's about one of the existing themes and you can post in the existing thread). Regarding development forum, the idea there is that ONLY roms and other hacks go there, or discussions about achieving them. Essentially, anything not development related should be in general ("I like this device, do you?", "Is your screen darker at the bottom than top"? etc...), and the questions about ROMs etc in Q&A...
naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
It would belong to the accessories forum. As above, Q&A is for device/ROM questions.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
Interesting... You got any such examples? It would not be normal to move a question thread from a forum other than development, in my experience, so if there's an example, I'd love to see it. If you mean moving questions from development, that's not something we're likely to change, as it drives away the developers and hackers who make the ROMs you use
There shouldn't be any "blind eye turning", though if something is borderline or in doubt, it wouldn't usually be moved.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
Other than the development forums (they're not going to change- we're having to add restrictions in there as well like postcount to stop spam and junk), that should be the way it is... Please PM me any examples you see, as I'd be keen to follow them up.
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Answers inline.
P
Why doesn't the development section have stickied root and recovery methods? What kind of moderators are on this forum? Every phone besides this one have root and recoveries stickied since they are the most popular and most accessed threads. Kinda dumb if you ask me........
Diplomatic.
jbadboy2007 said:
Why doesn't the development section have stickied root and recovery methods? What kind of moderators are on this forum? Every phone besides this one have root and recoveries stickied since they are the most popular and most accessed threads. Kinda dumb if you ask me........
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Thanks for playing...
wow sure the epic has like wht 7 roms
and the evo has lets see about 50
whos the more supported phone?
retard ur almost as dumb as the troll
tho I'm with ya guys when it comes to people from another forum *****ing about ours....but OP has a point!
why don't we have the root methods and recoveries stickied at the top??
Not to get flamed, but it's not a terrible idea.
So PM a moderator and ask them (maybe without the attitude).
The issue is that a bunch of 12 year olds think they can write code and mod stuff. then that's how there are 50 such ones. the fact is, we need a sub folder for ONLY mods. however, the issue is that the threads are full of useless information that is a waste of my time. I'm not going to read 100 pages of crap. However, when we post asking where something is, they are like "oh search" but when we search, it's pointless because it never gives us what we want.
jbadboy2007 said:
Why doesn't the development section have stickied root and recovery methods? What kind of moderators are on this forum? Every phone besides this one have root and recoveries stickied since they are the most popular and most accessed threads. Kinda dumb if you ask me........
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isn't this what your asking about
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=865204
was at the top of the page....... with this title " READ FIRST! - Rooting, Solutions to Problems, the Answer to Life "
in the Q&A sections. the dev section is for devs to post things(roms and such)and you can ask them ?s about their stuff(not random ?s about other thing) questions go in Q&A and general. just saying
Sigh..... If you can't find what you are looking for using xda search (which I do most of the time) then try googling it. If you are patient, and are willing to try several search terms, you will find what you are looking for. Then as you get used to using a search engine, you will subconciously learn how it works and get better and better at choosing search terms.
I am not an arrogant mod, or someone who has a little knowledge and therefore feels superior to you. When it comes to developing, modding, etc, I am pretty clueless on how to do it myself. So in the absence of knowledge, resourcefulness is my key to this world, try it.