Related
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of view that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
I recently looked at a thread where someone asked a question that was answered somewhere else. Three members jumped on the bandwagon to flame to poor sod. Another member jumped in to defend the fact that people should be free to ask questions.
In the end, there were 12 replies to the question that, in that thread, was never actually answered.
12 posts just to discuss the relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered.
Most forums I have been a member of have some very strict views on staying on topic. This reduces the flaming which seems to do more 'cluttering' damage that questions that have been already answered.
So if I have a question, I will STF only to find 42,000 topics on the same thing that don't actually answer anything, but discuss the "relevance or appropriateness of the question that was not even answered".
If the members, who should know better, stayed on topic then people would be able to readily identify the good threads more easily and not feel it nessesary to ask again... and again... and again.
So... Instead of flaming n00b questions that have allegedly been answered before, why don't the members of this forum look in the mirror and...
STAY ON TOPIC!!!
Note that I have posted this where I think this kind of discussion belongs... (i.e. not in any of the threads that actually deal with meaningfull discussions about phones).
Let the flames begin...
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
BaggyG said:
I'm fairly new to this forum, however have been a member of many other forums.
I find this forum quite interesting from the point of few that anyone who asks a question is in danger of being immediately flamed and potentially to the point of never returning.
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STFU noob.
ok, I jest... but seriously, it did reach breaking point and something had to give... fortunately it's unwinding itself now.
Also to be fair to long time members though, every time a new OS version is out, the place is flooded with n00bs that usually don't even take the time to look at the threads presend on the same damn page.
It's beyond lazy, it's just ignorant to expect people to wipe their arse for them even if the toilet roll is right there in front of them.
Sometimes help is warranted and they get flamed, but when upgrading these expensive devices, they should take the time to understand more about it
Perhaps we should have an aptitude test before allowing access to the forums hehe.
shogunmark said:
sounds like you are talking about the hermes wm6 forum... yes we know there is a problem... yes, we are working on it.. and there is already a thread for this.. so there was no reason to start another
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Gee... Hermes forum? How'd ya guess
I tried STF for a thread on this, but couldn't decide what to search on: n00b? Flame? Agro? Dummy spit? Ignorant?... So many choices
But okay... I've had my say so I'll pull my head in and get back to my life.
By the way... Great forum and wiki. Very helpful and informative.
Baggy
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
While I think it's important to encourage all members (yes I've seen a few senior members asking things that have been previously discussed in the same thread) I think the whole attitude about it is wrong. There's really no need to get all pissy about it, and much less calling people "noob". Really someone that goes off on a noob rant can't have much of a life in my opinion. We are all busy -some more then others- and we really don't want to waste time answering redundant questions, but isn't going off on someone and calling them a noob an even worst usage of our valuable time? besides..... who really gives a rats ass about getting called a noob.
In closing, if you feel a noob is bothering you, ignore him and he might eventually get the point, or behave like a human beign and help the guy out. However, as BaggyG says don't turn the damn thread into a name calling fiasko. One 20 word post asking a question is not as irritating as a 500 word essay on the stupidness of noobs.
GAMBIT999 said:
Same thing can be observed in the prophet forum too, lately. Once a new OS is out for the device the same questions are flooding over and over again. And it's surprising to see that the so called noobs who just started "annoying" the others are flaming the next generation of noobs who introduce themselves with the same kind of "new and unanswered" questions. The people are not stupid,but the are lazy a... I have the feeling that certain forums are laking of active moderators who maintain order when necessary.
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since i dont frequent the prophet forum's and im not sure who our active mod(s) are for prophet, if you would let me know what threads need to be moderated i will be more than happy to flex my muscle in there.
and actually on that note....
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
shogunmark said:
If anyone see's anything anywhere on this board that needs to be moderated then please either report the post or shoot me a pm or any of the other mods and i will be more than happy to do what i think is necessary with the thread or posts.
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Just wondering if it would be possible to put an announcement or sticky on each forum identifying the mods for that particular forum.
Just a though...
Baggy
Damn. I saw the title and thought "Man, that'd be fun!" and everyone in here is complaining about it? (joking).
Seriously though it is a problem. But everyone here can do something about stopping it. I mean, if you know there is a solution to the question they asked and it's somewhere else in the forums, give them a link and tell them how to find these answers. If you don't know exactly where it is, tell them what forum to search. At the very least, say nothing. When people only read the last page of a thread it is very annoying but those are best ignored. There is absolutely no need to publicly flame someone and waste even more space on a thread.
I'm currently working on a bug tracking system for new roms so hopefully that will reduce a lot of these kind of questions by keeping answers with the questions and moderators and chef's being able to easily delete repeated posts.
It's just a bit of common courtesy which is as sadly lacking as common sense at the moment unfortunately.
Maz
http://maz.net.au/
one of the other things is the sheer VOLUME of replies, in the Hermes section, there are over 250 replies in a couple of threads! not meaning to sound lazy, but that is a hell of a lot!!!
of corse i'm reading them and reading repeat after repeat of questions that are the same.
Its great when the #1 topic poster goes through the posts and copies soloutions to problems and presents it in the 1st post!
hmm think thats covered just about everything on my mind
*gets flamethrower out*
Flamin' time =D
kiddin'
Y'all have to admit. Some of the "senior" members here have this god complex.
Once they manage to have their devices run unofficial stuff - even if it isn't their own work, and they were just following simple instructions, which don't really take much work once you get down to it - they think it gives them every right to go Bastard Operator From Hell to just about anyone else.
I guess it's pretty normal for unofficial channels, innit - I see the same kind of folks in emulation and driver forums. Not to mention linux and hardware boards. But some of the "ascended" here ought to remember that they didn't start as gods, and may not really be that much of a "god" after all.
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
No, dozen responses that don't answer the question are not the solution, but hey everyone needs to went somehow.
levenum said:
You know there are noobs and then there are noobs.
Take a look at this thread. If every novice would put half the effort in as this guy did we wouldn't be having this dessication at all.
Don't get me wrong, I do not support flaming (well maybe with some small exceptions) and say what you will about senior members but at least all those guys who "just followed simple instructions" had the sense to go find and read those instructions.
So can your really blame someone who spent time reading and learning when he sees the forum flooded by people who expect to be walked through something step by step without bothering to put in even a minimum effort?
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I agree. There's WAAAAYY too much "how do I. . ." posts in the forums when all the information is already there for READING. More stickys at the top of the forums won't solve the problem, because the ones that are there WITH the information are not being read by the noobs even now.
It's really sad for me to see the direction that this board has taken in the past year. When I first registered, it was an AWESOME site with LOTS of users developing useful tools and apps to make these devices even better . . . a place to share ideas and to try out the cooked ROMs.
Then, we had an influx of new users about 6 months ago that simply couldn't -- or WOULDN'T -- search for answers before posting. Now, the board is so bloated with those useless posts/threads that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
While I still come here daily to check the General section and the Wizard section, I don't do much posting and only read the threads of general interest to me. I'll help where I can on answering questions -- but only if they haven't already been asked a gazillion times before. I still look for the tools and apps from the developers here to keep tweaking my phone to get the absolute MOST out of it, and I've flashed more ROMs from this site than Quaker's got oats. -- and all without asking "how do I. . ." or "I've bricked my phone. . . " because I READ THE INSTRUCTIONS BEFORE DOING ANYTHING!!!
It's really that simple. All you have to do is READ and FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS -- step by step. Don't skip a step or leave anything out, and it works!!!
that it's a nightmare using the search function anymore.
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As much as I see your point, I have only 2 words to say. "Vicious Cycle".
I'm also a noob but i dont care because i know my options, first do a search ( which by the way is pratically unusable, but not only here all foruns have this problem), but in a community so big it´s comprehensive cause sometimes the answer to the problem is two threads bellow or in the next page, but no let´s open another thread asking the same thing, and i know that such attitude will lead to saturation of the older members.
The answer is simple if someone is in the mood answer if not leave it, until the users realize their options to search for things this will never end.
I'm glad to be here because above all it's a learning place for the ones who enjoy this platform and the ones who just like to know about varied stuff.
Cheers and have a nice weekend
yes thanks everyone for all thr help and advice. Keep it up!
Peace out
Registration fees
To alleviate the amount of worthless posts and to give something back to those that dedicate so much time and effort to this forum (rom cookers, admins and mods) why dont we add a registration fee to this forum?
Just a thought, but I would happily pay an annual fee of 20 eur / 15 GBP for this forum.
Searching
I think that quite a lot of the problem is with how difficult it is to get answers out of the forum search facility if you're not used to it.
Could it be possible to add a dumb-ass version that's the default?
There have been no end of times in the past when i've been searching for info on upgrading and I have to trawl through hundreds of irrelevant posts (most of them telling people to go to other posts that don't have the right info on them).
Also, back in the day there was a lot more info on the wiki section relating to the upgrading/modding etc but now (understandably given the number of devices available) the information only seems to be in the forums.
I like the idea of having a sticky in each thread listing useful articles on common topics. I bet no one will bother to read them though.
I still think my library illustration I gave over at TC stills says it best.
We all know the library is full of info on so many things you could want to know. And we all know what's expected of us in a library; go find the book on the subject. If you have trouble finding the answer, then ask your question.
I think where so many go wrong is thinking that they can just walk in to the library and start asking questions from whoever just happens to be there, rather than first trying to find the answer for themselves in the variety of books available.
And what's wrong with someone who at first was a noob - asking repeated questions - and then learning what's expected of them, and then expecting the same from others? You got told to be quiet in the library, at first you were offended, and then began to realize the benefit, and then inturn expect the same from others.
I really don't expect people to figure it out. Call me a pessimist or call me a realist.
Oh, by-the-way, have you noticed that this kind of topic always results in long, drawn-out posts?
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
It saddens me
I was a bit disappointed hearing this from a marvelous developer such as you are but I believe you are not evil because you have tried your best to bring us the best out of our devices
Please do reconsider...
I hear what you're saying, mate. I lurked around this place for over six months before making my first post, just reading up and learning. People don't want to read anymore...they think that this place is the instant free tech support center.
djboo, I don't agree! Most of the threads in D&H subforum are developer or constructive threads. This is not an easy thing to accomplish, and I think it shows the quality of the forum. You can't disable access to "noobs", developers make their stuff for everyone, not just other developers or experienced people! I'm glad if other people like something I make.
Partially agree...
djboo said:
quite simply, the the 'development and hacking' section of xda-devs has a cluelessn00b to developer ratio of about 1000-1. I understand that everyone is excited about some of the stuff that goes on in that section, but its bad for several reasons:
firstly, how can any dev communicate when people are continuously rudely demanding information (in broken english or text speek) which is on the first page of a thread or has been communicated several times since then.
secondly, its not safe for the cluelessn00bs... if i was a bit more evil, i could easily make an app to kill to boot loader and pretend that its the latest manila4d or whatever. real devs would probably think about it before running it, clueless noobs would dive right in and we'd have a wave of bricked devices.
i know its hard to fix this kind of issue, and this post is not meant as any disrespect to any mod or admin of xd.com (its clearly disrespect to the cluelessb00ns who cant read the domain name, the forum section nor the first post)
the only suggestions i can personally make are an allow list on threads - managed by the thread owner (and the ability to pass ownership of the first thread would make sense too) or maybe to post in dev+hacking you have to be a senior member (having said that, ive seen some senior members be as clueless and the n00bs)
i beg that some consideration is placed on this, because, in all reality, ive given up on the manila3d thread. theres just no point in me battling the waves of idiocy any longer. the chance of me actually developing? pffft.
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I partially second that, although I think that membership seniority based on number of posts isn't the best practice if to implement what you proposed. As I, for example, don't post a lot but read the forum for almost 2 years, and have dev. background (and I guess there a lot of others like that), there are some that post a lot of questions and/or comments that are not that dev. inclined or do not have the knowledge (yet?).
I do see your point here, and me too stopped following the TF3D thread after tons of non development related issues. Maybe putting Dev/Hack as read-only and people would have to ask a mod / admin for posting rights on it? And then giving full access to the Q&A thread / new section? So devs. could enjoy it more, general community could still get the latest (downloading newer version from Dev/Hack, etc.) and get questions answered in an orderly fashion... BUT, what with those nice little apps people write and post here from time to time, that come from someone that is not THAT involved in the community? They'd simply go elsewhere, and I guess this IS the most valuable asset the community have. With all due respects to the "regulars", I think those that pass by once in a while and contribute are
invaluable too. Guess it's the price to pay for innovation, having to sort through the non-sense to find the gems.
In the end, I think the problem here are the filters we use. Maybe we just need to find a better way to organize the data here, so it's easier to follow... What I do hope, is that whatever is done, doesn't change the essence of this great oasis...
I kinda agree with ur second part but i'm sure someone would have told the mods if it was a "dangerous app", rite?
I am a noob
Ok, I understand quite well what you are saying. Being a noob myself, i am learning as much as i can, slowly but I hope surely.
I try to read thoroughfully each thread that I have interest in.
The only regret I have is the search engine. For example, I'm still searching for a thread where it explains how to modify spb mobile shell files to have PI8 as the default calendar. I know the intel is there somewhere, but I'm having a hard time to find the right post/thread.
So maybe one of the possibilities would be to enhance a little the search engine or the way results are shown => enlighten the searched words...
Please reconsider, don't be to hard on the noobs, I think we aren't so bad, some of us want to learn.
And thank you very much for your patience, talent and ideas.
I do agree too that there is too much "I like that.... whats it for?" when a lot of the time the developers do put the information in their posts. BUT..... sometimes these STUPID, RANDOM comments do contribute by putting an idea out there to be expanded on. Sometimes they provide needed feedback and ideas.
If you restrict access to these areas then you may as well shut down the site.
This is a forum and as such there will ALWAYS be those annoying clueless posts but you have to remember that you were once there yourself...
You have to make allowances for those members who DON'T speak english very well as they may be very tech savy but just have difficulty putting their ideas down in English. They may actually give something back..
And thats my 2 cents
hi all
in fact there was a section missing , here , for asking
seems they are doing something very soon , reading the sticky thread
Here
and so the D&H will come back to be free for real dev
djboo perhaps you are a little hasty in this thread and I agree with some of what you say, however, alot of ppl respect everything you and other developers give us immensely! without ppl like yourself alot of us would never use Windows Mobile devices, instead following the masses of other "mind washed" CrApple iphone uses, anyway please don't stop sharing just because a few mindless teenagers didn't get enough Oxygen at birth!
people make their own choices. if you post something which might trigger a brick and someone uses it you can blame him for either trying something without investigating first or for just being plain stupid (depending on the circumstances).
the fact that this section is a target for terrorist idiots action isn't different from any other internet or real forum in the world. people tend to go wherever's warmer and cuddle there.. and try to suck every little ounce of good they can find in that place.
that's why you can find thousands of stupid posts and questions instead having a clear, professional section. not using search, not being able to read rules before posting.. that's international.
as for restricting... I must disagree to the proposal. it would require more work from the dev to find the members he'd like to share this with instead of just posting his work. and being a senior member on this forum means NOTHING considering it depends on the number of posts you have rather on how long you've been around or how much you have contributed to this community.
but what i do suggest is, that a member will have to be at least X months old in this forum to post. this will make people use search and learn before they come up with stupid questions.
cheers.
As a link above has p[pointed out, there is a new forum coming for questions. If you really have a problem with some of this noob questions, PM a mod/report the post.
Also, if you want to post a thread as an announcement, rather than a questions/answers thread, PM a mod to get it locked.
If you don't let new members post, they will never find anything out.
One final thing: you yourself have posted this in an area in which it doesn't belong. It has nothing to do with Development or Hacking, it's about what happens in this forum. As such, I'm going to move the thread to the "About xda-devs" section.
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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that man said it better than i ever could.
l3v5y said:
If you want closed developing, why not do it via e-mail, or PM?
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i dont want closed developing. i want developing. currently the main thread in question is more like doing lines for teacher. once a day, log in, "HTC-CA drivers disable shutdown, TF3D uses those drivers. use manilatoggle to disable TF3D before you power down" x10
djboo said:
i dont beleive personally in censorship of anysort. seriously. im like a big ass hippy and everything.
but some of the people in the developers section of this site have barely developed full sentances let alone developed on an 'xda' phone. the floods of the same people asking the same questions over and over again is just disheartening.
maybe just the ability for the thread owner to delete posts would help. since about post 40 on the manila3d thread, theres been...ooh. 7 maybe 8 relevant posts? the rest have been 'my device wont turn off' which is answered in the first post.
meh. maybe we should just open up a new thread for the real developing. disguise the topic. then we might get some work done.
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djboo... I understand where you are coming from, but I also do not totally agree with your comments. Although I may be a noob, I do have a lot ov experiance in computing. I do not have the time to develop of backwords engineer apps. I wish I did. I would enjoy doing it. I agree with you that the thread owner should be able to delete posts that are off topic, but I think the thread owner should also move a question with an answer to the first page if they see multiple posts. This would make it easier to find some of the common answers. I agree that users should use the search, but it does not always return what you are looking for. I have made a post and been berated for not using the search (when in fact I had). I truly enjoy the work you and the rest of the developers are doing. Without you guys, my phone would be quite boring, but because of the work done on this site, I am quite happy with my phone and how it operates. I have friends that think I am a god because I help them with thier phone, but I would not be able to do half of what I do if it were not for the work done here. I hope you go back to work on Manilla3D. We noobs need the knowledge you provide. As for off topic posts such as the nes on the Manilla3D thread, a lot of them go on due to people endulging these people by answering thier post or flaming them. I have seen senior members do this and all it does is fuel a lot of these guys. Ignore them! Geez, I have had my ligidimate questions ignored, why not ignore the non-ligitimate ones? Anyway, I will get off my soap box. I appreciate everthing all of you developers do and I hope one day I will have the time to contribute to the development community. Take care.
It is possible to set up a "thread owner" or thread based permission system but it would take some work and more importantly a Vbulletin developer to iron out the issues that may come up.
I have tried it on one other site but it was a little difficult. Of course I think a more productive idea is to have developer groups. Vbulletin has a group system built in as of 3.7 and it allows for comments and such. In 3.8 it will allow groups to have their own message boards. With a little help you can set up 3.7 to also have message boards controlled by the owner of the group.
DaveShaw said:
Thread's like this always remind me this post by Kyphur: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45
Ta
Dave
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djboo said:
that man said it better than i ever could.
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Yup that's why it's in my signature under XDA Mantra.
This is for discussion about the recent news that we'll soon be disallowing posts to development forums for new users with 10 posts or less in an attempt to cut down on junk posts.
I believe is a good new way of lowering down the crap-posts
What else a normal member can do to help?
- Report any problematic post by using the "report" button
- Help to improve and maintain a friendly ambiance
Thanks!
>25 would be better.
It sounds very very good. I'd like to suggest a little thing:
is it possible to ban thread with "HELP me please" title?
This type of title is common and doesn't help to focus the problem.
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
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Daniel, I totally agree with you. These are very valid points. Many people lurk here, mainly because they don't want to look stupid when they ask questions - and then, when they get serious after gaining knowledge here, they try something and they can't post? That isn't right.
The biggest issue here at XDA is what I mentioned above - people are hesitant to post because of the reaction they frequently get - on the flip side, those that do post in the proper areas for questions and answers are lucky if they get answers sometimes, I've had questions go unanswered, when I posted in what I thought was the proper forum (never in the ROM development forums). So what I think you really need to do is to come up with a good support forum for custom ROMs, and have knowledgable people read and help out in there - no matter how 'dumb' the question is in their eyes. From my experience, the only 'dumb' question is the one you don't ask. Will that 'cut down' on the 'dumb' questions? Yes, in the ROM development forums it will - only if they're answered elsewhere, however.
You have to remember, Android doesn't come naturally to everyone, some come from other 'worlds' where they know what they're doing, then they're tossed into the thick of it when they try to make the switch (been there, done that). Are there people who really shouldn't be messing with their phones? Of course there are. Is it XDA's job to let them know they're too dumb to be messing? Or is it a better plan to help those people learn? I've always found the latter to be a better plan.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
All I can say is about friken time! I have been discussing this rule with a number of mods for a long long time now and frankly I still think 10 is too low, but its a great start and should cut a lot of the rubbish or at least make some people think twice about where they are posting their questions.
spock2097 said:
Sorry but I think is not a good move.
I am massively effected by this move. My only posts and reads are in the development forums because I installed a "custom rom" the moment I purchased my new phone. There is no posting from me in the "other" forums.
How can I answer the maker of the custom rom?
Should i spam 10 meaningless posts in other forums just to get my right?
The term "development" in XDA is funny anyway because these forums have very little todo with development but with installing custom roms and other patches. They are not discussing "development" stuff in these forums.
Anyhow I would suggest to:
1. Have grace period of at least 1 day between registration and posting.
2. Have REAL development forums and separate ones for "custom kernels/roms" for the maker and their users.
Best Regards,
Daniel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with spock ("Live long and prosper"). For newbies, which I may still be considered, searching the forums is daunting. For example, I have an HD2. I was running Android off of SD for a few months, then just last week took the plunge to NAND. You guys are really making progress on cleaning up the forum structure, because at least now in the HD2 section there are different "development" sections for NAND and SD, etc. BUT, when you are searching for the perfect ROM, it is very confusing with all of the codes in the ROM names. It took me 5 different tries between NAND roms and CWR roms (using clockwork recovery, I'm not THAT DUMB) to finally get one to boot up. I was sweating for a bit!!!
Plus, when you use the search function in the forums, the results very rarely seem to match my search. I understand the experts' frustrations when a newb asks a question or needs help with something that's already been covered, but I have searched numerous times looking for help with bluetooth on a rom, or music skipping, or whatever. Sometimes, I'll take 45 minutes reading through the search results and will realize that none of them are even touching on the subject I was searching for.
Don't get me wrong, I am extremely grateful for all that the XDA team does. I visit this site daily, and follow the news with RSS on the Google Reader. I love it. But, since you're asking for suggestions, there you are.
;-)
It's a shame that you guys need to enforce this kind of rule but we really do need something to keep this forum in control.
Good job.
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Fair play on attempting something. This is one of a few large community sites I frequent and they all suffer from the problems you describe. Unfortunately no-one has the answer and it is a case of trail and error to find what works.
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
egzthunder1 said:
Well, that is kind of the idea. If you have questions or are not sure about something, you are supposed to try and find the answers by using the search engine. If you must ask questions, most device forums have a Q&A section where you can post. Keep in mind that the announcement says that you will still be able to read, just not post.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post<>opening a new thread.
Let me phrase this:
1. I have been reading the forum for 1-2 weeks.
2. Then I couldn't find the answer and I have opened an account.
3. I want to post a question to the maker of the custom rom.
4. I can't do this!
5. I will post 10 idiotic comments somewhere else to get my right.
Is this what you want? I (you can see all my posts) have never spammed or asked stupid stuff anywhere but a number of posts should be a sign of my maturity? Posting 10 Post gives you little to no sign if the user has and knows how to use search and stay still untill he has read at least 1000 posts!
This is what you should be aiming for.
Just because you can't measure it better doesn't make it valid. It is like giving you no mortgage loan because in your neighbourhood there were 5% not paying it back in time.
egzthunder1 said:
As for the "no real development" comment... these forums are not just guides to teach others how to flash custom stuff. It is called development because the roms, kernels, themes, apps don't just magically appear from thin air. There is a lot of work done to get a custom rom to even boot in a device (let alone get it to work properly). You need to tweak drivers, apps, test, test, and test some more before you can even consider releasing something. And don't even get me started in porting and kernel development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does this have to do with my remarks concerning the XDA developer forums?
I do agree with everything you said but "testing" especially means getting feedback from users that can't tell you anymore if "it worked".
egzthunder1 said:
The reason why you don't see the discussions about development is because they are heavily diluted by posts not related to the devving process (which include questions in the wrong place, flaming, thank you posts etc). Hence, the reason for this move. This is to ensure that the development sections stay that way.... as development.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then make inexperienced users stop "opening new threads" instead of "posting answers/making remarks to current threads".
Naren Raj said:
As i am mech engg and i dont about Rom and other things so i have to post stupid posts
and also some stupid post might help someone
if you can help "If some dev posts some information make sure that he posts his post well informed. by this unnecessary posts can be avoided"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is the thing, and probably where lots of people are missing the point here. It isn't a matter of stupid posts. It is a matter of stupid posts in the wrong places. No one is telling you that you cannot ask for help. What we are saying is that, if all search efforts fail, please post in the right place....
seroaddict said:
See, I didn't even know that. I think this is a smart move, since it will all but force n00bs like myself to direct their comments to the appropriate forum. In terms of other recommendations, I would say having a ROM support forum, as somebody else mentioned would be a good idea.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...
My advice to all ROM devs would be to make their own thread in Q&A or general, called [SUPPORT] ROM NAME HERE Support Thread - Latest Version 1.2.3
In there, all users could post, regardless of number of posts. The first post would link to the main ROM, and perhaps contain a FAQ.
In the ROM release in development, have a large link to the Q&A thread at the start and end of the post. That way, those reporting bugs and helping with patches/fixes can post in the development thread, and those needing help can post in the Q&A thread.
Just encourage devs to do something like this
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
I mean something has to be done. But being new to all this rooting, S-OFF etc kind of thing I do consider myself at least somewhat of a greenhorn . I do however try to keep my questions relevant to the topic and try finding the proper topic before placing a question.
But I am also struggling with actually get a proper answer, or an answer at all to some of my questions, making it hard for a new guy (or girl) to transend from being a greenie to actually become more and more knowledgeable over time. I mean if people dont share their knowledge and or their solutions then how are we all to benifit from them.
I do however admit that some form of moderation needs to find place, considering that some of the guides are actually more or less straight forward and quite frankly. If people can't follow a single straight forward guide then perhaps rooting, modding etc is not for them
thefinancemaster said:
One of the things XDA added recently to cut down on posts was a "Thank You" button. It's a great idea! Where the heck is it? I would love to thank the devs that help me out with my HD2, but I CANT FIND THE BUTTON!
Can somebody draw me a picture or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It appears to the left of the Quote button.
But IIRC it appears only after 5 posts, as we would have issues with new accounts being made solely to thank their "owner".
You're not far off the thanks button appearing.
I would screenie it, but there's little point. It's to the left of "Edit" for me ("Quote" for you I think as you won't see edit buttons everywhere)
This is your site and your rules. The only question is, that a person like me who has been a member for a short time, but been runing modded rom's for about 5 months (thanks to this site) can't post a question if I did have one. This is my second post, and the first one was to answer a question, I have found everything I needed and every question I had answered by way of reading posts. But if I do have a question I can't ask it because I have not posted alot of BS to get my post count up.
Let me start by saying that this is just a moan thread, and I don't ask or expect that anything comes from it other than me getting something off my chest and seeing what others think.
I'm a very regular reader and contributor in the HD2 forum, as I have been for over a year now. I like the fact that it's such a busy forum as this obviously means we have a larger resource pool and get answers to issues a lot quicker than a more sparsely populated forum. There is, however, a down-side to this as well. More people does mean more help, but it also means more idiots.
Unfortunately, there's a growing gang of members in the HD2 forum that seem to thrive on posts such as...
"Search for the answer, *****"
or...
"Are you a total retard?"
Now I know that some people ask what a lot of us feel are dumb questions, and a LOT of people are guilty of posting questions without searching thoroughly first, therefore repeating threads, but it seems to be becoming a sport to deal with them with stronger and stronger animosity.
I personally have been guilty of posting "This is the wrong forum" or "This has been answered - please search", but the recent number of similar posts has made me rethink the situation.
First of all, just insulting someone is point-blank out-of-order, and I usually tend to report such posts and hope the mods agree and deal with the individual in question. So that's that done. Now we're left with the "already answered" posts.
This is all hypothetical, so don't do the following search and tell me I was wrong, okay
Say I searched for "bluetooth android not working" and didn't find anything that suited my situation and decided to open a thread. I start one called "bluetooth android not working" and explain my problem. UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answer like a million times. Use the search function"
Now let's go 2 weeks into the future when someone else has the exact same problem. They type into the search "bluetooth android not working" and they find my thread. "Great!" they think, till they read the thread. It's of no use to them whatsoever. So they start a new thread. Guess what - UserXXX comes along and says "This has been answered a million times! I'm getting sick of telling people to search!!!"
This happens every 2 weeks, with different users having the same problems and not finding a solution, therefore posting a new thread.
Okay. Here I have to say that none of the above users searched well enough - that is a valid point, and cannot be changed. By the time they start a new thread it's too late to simply tell them this.
But now, 6 months down the line, we have 12 threads that are titled "bluetooth android not working", and not one of them has an actual answer in it. By this point, the forum is becoming pretty pointless.
All it would take is for Mr.Genius-at-searching UserXXX to have searched, as he claims is easy to do, find a link and then post whatever he wants, with the link at the end of it...
"Here's a link, you **** tard. Learn to search. I can do it, so I have the right to tell you to do it. Want proof I can search? Here it is...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/noonardfoundananswer.php"
Basically, people giving it "do a search if you want answers" should help out new users in doing so. Do a search and maybe tell them what your search criteria was. Maybe they didn't know what NAND was when they were asking about flashing Android to replace WM6.5. Maybe they misspelt "blootueth". They need help, not an arrogant waste of space that generates just as much garbage post in the forum, but with an added side-dish of anger.
Finally, I know that we shouldn't spoon-feed people, as they will never learn to do things themselves. What I am suggesting is that if someone knows how to do something and they find someone who clearly doesn't, then they should help them, rather than just act like an idiot.
Phew. Rant over
Edit: Incidentally, apologies to those who've pointed out that it's not just the HD2 forums that are like this. I didn't mean to imply that they're the only place it happens. I just can't talk from experience for any of the other forums.
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Completely agree.
This is something I try to do now (having flamed and abused in the past ) for the reasons you have stated above.
Take this post for example, I even provided a link.
Why goto the effort of answering a post if you are not going to provide an answer.
As for "don't ask or expect that anything comes from it". I would hope others who don't provide usfull replies read this and take something away from it.
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the comments Dave. Glad to see I'm not the only one that thinks like this.
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
I really do not mind helping people but what I cant stand is lazyness. Its one thing been new to teh subject and not knowing something and then asking for help but its another to simply not even bother checking a forum stickies or at least doing a simple search before creating a topic that has already been created.
On some occasions its because the subject is a hard one to search and filter out but on allot of occasions you know its simply because they have not bothered and thought they would just create a topic and let other people do work for them, That is what I cant stand.
Although I have stopped been really abrupt I will still not answer these people but instead choose to make sure they are aware that its not on.
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Completely agree with what the OP is trying to say.
TheATHEiST said:
I do get abrupt with people but I also help alot, hence why I have 50 thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are the from people you helped, or from people who liked your quips? (j/k)
TheATHEiST said:
Yes you can say that we was all new once and some people need their arse wiping for them but that is absolutely no excuse. When I first joined this forum I did allot of reading and learned allot of stuff in process, some info I didnt need at the time but later helped me with other stuff and resulted in me not needing to clone topics or ask questions that have already been asked and answered.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the point John is making, is that the unhelpful replies limit users ability to search. For example, searching for "Help Flashing Evo" will find threads with the answer "Use Search", (recursion ) hence annoying the user and causing them to post instead of carrying on.
Users who don't bother reading/searching are (and probably always will be) a problem, hence svetius's change requiring 10 post to use Development forums; we need to find more efficient ways to help them
Dave
thank you very much!!! i have been thinking about this topic a long by myself, but i didnt dare to mention it with my low post counter.
I got my HD2 only 1 month ago and its my first WM device. I am very good with all technical devices, but it was still very hard for me to find the right answers.
As i just bricked my nokia phone during an update i wanted to make sure to not brick my HD2..
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
oida_oida said:
its hard to get all the information, and i was thinking about creating a webpage - which really expalains idiot-proof how everything works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guides and the wikis + plethora of resources are already in place especially for establishes devices like the Leo. The only issues is the "newer" crowd is lazy and does not search and hence hundreds of threads asking questions to which answers have already been mentioned sometime somewhere on the forum. That's not the only issue- the problem is that these newer people won't be patient or even post in the correct place.
For eg. I have seen threads about Android development being posted in Win D&H.
We have to live & deal with it, it's a side effect of growth and progress.
JM2C's.
There seems to be a significant amount of animosity of late in all forums - not just HD2. I'm not certain as to why this is, all I do know is that I find unacceptable. As moderators, we spend more time cleaning up flame & troll posts than working on our own community contributions.
My observations:
XDA is about bringing together folks who have similar passions about mobile technology. As such, I expect a certain degree of maturity and professionalism from all members during their "stay" on this forum.
Responses that provide helpful and constructive information as opposed to "use the search", "try Google", "it's broken", "fix it", etc. help guide the thread back to topic. Here's a few examples:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9929554&postcount=4
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10749020&postcount=7
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10097254&postcount=22
There is absolutely no reason to respond in a rude tone, make someone feel stupid, or disrespect a member trying to offer something back to the community ... it is not constructive and serves no purpose. Members are never forced to frequent a thread on this forum and as previously stated, members should choose to move on instead of posting inflammatory comments.
Shortly after the launch of a well advertised mobile device, there is an influx of new members. Most all carriers and device manufacturers send their customers to XDA for technical assistance. Place a call to your carrier technical support department, it won't take long before the support representative instructs you to: "check out XDA, they have tons of information on how to fix that ...".
Most of newcomers who frequent the site are under the misconception that XDA is an extension of their carrier technical support department. This becomes apparent when I read posts complaining about issues with features or demanding an answer to their problem. As most of these newcomers are less technical, they lack the expertise required to assess the problem and determine the correct terminology to use in a search.
The current consumer model is not conducive to holding carrier and device manufacturers accountable. The current marketing paradigm is about convenience and how the one device that "does it all" is here. Most consumers buy into the paradigm and spend little to no time researching before the purchase. Once the device is purchased and fails to meet expectations, they simply go out and purchase something else.
vBulletin Search is horrible and unless one has a PhD in XDA Google Search, the likelihood of finding a meaningful answer in a billion threads is well ... challenging at best.
There are other observations that I have made; but the ones above are IMHO, some of the key issues and why I prefer to take a less aggressive approach when moderating newcomer posts.
Regards,
Those observations are very accurate and sums up the issue well, Hilaireg.
Thanks to all for giving your two cents on this rather important issue. The problems that we currently face are a product of people not having a sense of community. As hilaireg stated, many come here for a "quick fix" simply because the CSR at their company had no idea what to do and decided to direct you here to see if maybe you could fix the issue yourself.
Admittedly, there are search engines that are somewhat better than vB's, but the point that the OP is making is 100% dead on target. By playing "smarta$$" and replying "search, you n00b" instead of providing any meaningful reply will do nothing else than dilute the results of your search. Having said this, people complaining that the search does not work, 8 times out of 10, are expecting the right answer to pop up in the first result from the thread, and will probably give up if by the second or third link they have not found anything. Patience is a virtue, and people looking for knowledge should expect for this to come at the price of a little effort.
I went from a $10 clamshell dumdum phone for 6 years, whambang straght into my Leo. I am over 36 & under 38 years old.
It took me 3 months of fumbling around getting peeved over constant resetting and crashes.
Not once did I bother anyone here with a question that with a bit of hands on do-it-yourself would eventually learn on my own.
However, I had Tmo tech. on speed dial...
I am not new to the forum game though...check my thread "Throttled". lol.
anywho, my phone will remain stock with tweaks, skins, and sweet theme action.
This is an awesome piece of awesome, but NOT for the severely impatient or timid.
Thank you XDA for doing the absolute maximum in making my leo purrrr!!!!
and moan threads are for sissies btw...lol.
@ hilaireg & egzthunder1
I understand and agree to some extent your points but the fact of the matter is that something really needs to be done to halt or slow down the amount of dupe posts or other that are polluting/diluting the forum.
I'm going to be honest I dont really have any problems using vB search and usally find the info I need. PLUS much rather find the info myself because it also makes me learn other stuff in process that I may need in future that I wouldnt usually learn if I had just gone and asked somebody for specific info.
Here are the steps I take to find the relevant info...
Check stickies
Check latest topics
Use search function (topic titles)
Use search function (topic content)
Then if I dont find any info I want I begin to start a new thread and take note of the "similar threads" function before posting. If all else fails I use google.
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
I really think that we need to have a 100 post limit on the dev section this will reduce by allot the amount of spam we get, maybe not specifically for replying to topics but certainly for creating them. And also maybe a FAQ sticky in each Q&A forum with links to most asked ones.
TheATHEiST said:
The problem is that 99% of newbies dont do any of this or very little to look for what they need info/help on, They just rather create a topic and let the info be brought to them, which is fine but majority of questions are already answered in stickies or tuts/guides which are easy to find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
There are solutions:
1) the OPs start updating their original posts with solutions to outstanding problems. The search engine is only as good as the queries being put into it, and as more "SEARCH DA TRED NEB3!!!" responses fill the thread, that makes actually finding the solution all the more difficult.
2) Regulars stop flaming the newbies. When I first started posting here I got a number of @ss**** responses to reasonable questions. If regulars behave like that, what type of newbs do you think you're attracting?
Lets not make this a 'he said/she said' or a pointing-fingers thread.
For a solution to the problem at hand, when we see such behavior, we can easily rectify it - as the OP stated - by posting the answer to questions instead of telling the person to search for the answer.
Now this does also bring a 'double-edge' scenario: This may give the n00bs the idea that it is okay to post a question without searching. But this is already happening.
So if we at least cut the amount of posts about the same topic down, there will be less of what bothers the senior members. And we won't have to suggest 'Search the forums for the answer.'
As a possible-soon-to-be-moderator of the Herald forums, I promise to do this myself. Hopefully, we can all agree to do the same as Senior Members of this community. I also don't expect anyone who has less than a hundred posts to do this, but, hopefully a trend will catch on.
apallohadas said:
The newbies aren't the only problem.
*You* yourself recently lit into a newbie in a very uncalled for fashion. With your post and the followups to your post, you helped muddy the waters for finding actual solutions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey I didnt say they was the only problem, hence "99%".
If we keep re-iterating the same answers we are just going round in circles. The ONLY way to solve this is to somehow halt/slow them from asking the same repeat questions in first place, not just keep providing the answers every time they decide to be lazy and ask the same question and not just that they also ask them by creating a topic in the wrong places.
It's not just the HD2 forum, it's the same in the Desire one too (and yes, I'm guilty of a bit of flaming but some people just ask EXTREMELY dumb questions and even when you answer continue to ignore you so they deserve it)
Rule 1 of the forum is to search and for those who haven't even done that they deserve it too. But to those who say they've actually tried and not found anything I'll try and be helpful
These people just need to learn the proper way to ask a question. If you want a response from the power-hungry people who reply with insults, you must phrase it properly.
Instead of saying: "How do you get bluetooth working in Android NAND?"
They need to say: "Android on the HD2 SUCKS because bluetooth doesn't work right!"
What you will then see is these jerks flocking to prove the OP wrong, all while answering his question. 90% of the time, it works every time.
But if we do keep reiterating the answers to properly asked questions, that makes the search engine more useful for those that do use it. The answer doesn't get buried in 'you suk n00b' responses.
If a person feels they can't respond without insults, then they should have the self control not to respond right?
IMO the ones with knowledge need self control and should control their temper; and be helping ( luckily for us most are ).
And the n00bs need to know the forum decorum and manners better.
And the minimum posts requirement to post in dev. section is a small but very important step in the right direction, I recall when I signed up on XDA for months I was just reading and posting. And posted only in the Q&A threads or threads related to fashing/ROMs ( when I needed help with that); but these days the people won't have the patience to do that.
Either we need to vomit it out on them or somehow teach them the old school method of search + posting on right threads/forums.
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
Agreed... and to add another question why do some devices have a Q&A sub-section and some not? Seems inconsistent. Anyway the forums are hard to navigate anyway (too many sub-sections, outdated stickies, too many "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST"-threads etc..). I guess at least the Q&A part could be merged with 'General' of every forum. Also Accessoires & Wallpapers/Themes get an extra sub-section? I'd lump everything together and make just two per device (General/Dev).
Oh and don't take this as "This is how you run a forum " - just my humble opinion
Ok. When a device general forum gets over 10,000 posts, or 1000 threads, it gets a Q&A section.
General vs dev only would result in even more junk in both to be fair...
I reckon at present there is a good balance as almost everything is consistent across the site. Go to HTC G1. It has, by and large, the same layout as all other sections.regarding outdated stickies, contact the mod for the relevant section by pm and point it out.
Regarding questions being moved, we can only move what we know about or see... So drop the mod for the section a PM with the threads.
MarkusPO said:
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
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Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
pulser_g2 said:
Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
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Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go? naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
MarkusPO said:
Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
I will look into this. Sounds strange.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
Those threads are pertaining to development, as without a way to root/hack the device, nobody can really develop for it. That's basically the way it's been for ages, so that's unlikely to change.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
You are right, it's hard on occasion to strike a balance, but to be honest, you have no idea what kinds of trolls we get here Most of the time we can sweep away the awful stuff before people see it...
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
Fair point, but we have about 600,000 threads I can assure you we won't be cutting the number of forums per device, as that would make things unmanageable. Regarding the "right sort of forum", will address next. The trouble is that when I want to find some hack or tweak, I go to development. I don't expect to hunt through 200 pages of "I NEED HALLLLLLLLLLLP PLEEEEEEEEEEEZ NAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KTHX" just to find a buried "[Mod] Trackball Wake source edit" or whatever...
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go?
That would go in accessories. To be honest the Q&A is actually for beginner device questions moreso than that. I do see your point here, but I think you are misunderstanding the idea for the Device Q&A forum. If you want to ask "how do I flash a ROM on SPL v0.1", then Q&A is the place to go If you are more asking about a theme, then themes & apps is the place to ask it (provided it's about one of the existing themes and you can post in the existing thread). Regarding development forum, the idea there is that ONLY roms and other hacks go there, or discussions about achieving them. Essentially, anything not development related should be in general ("I like this device, do you?", "Is your screen darker at the bottom than top"? etc...), and the questions about ROMs etc in Q&A...
naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
It would belong to the accessories forum. As above, Q&A is for device/ROM questions.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
Interesting... You got any such examples? It would not be normal to move a question thread from a forum other than development, in my experience, so if there's an example, I'd love to see it. If you mean moving questions from development, that's not something we're likely to change, as it drives away the developers and hackers who make the ROMs you use
There shouldn't be any "blind eye turning", though if something is borderline or in doubt, it wouldn't usually be moved.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
Other than the development forums (they're not going to change- we're having to add restrictions in there as well like postcount to stop spam and junk), that should be the way it is... Please PM me any examples you see, as I'd be keen to follow them up.
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Answers inline.
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