Hey all, question here about chargers.
I have 3 chargers at my disposal, a Samsung travel charger @0.7A, included charger block @ 1.0A, and my HP Touchpad block @ 2.0A.
The touchpad charger charges from empty to full in 3h15m, uninterrupted. Not blindingly fast, but good.
The included one takes around 4+ hours.
The travel one is so slow, check out the screenshot below, over 5 hours and at 94% only.
Question is, is there any detriment to using the non standard included charging brick or can I use the higher amperage charger safely?
Thanks
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mettleh3d said:
Question is, is there any detriment to using the non standard included charging brick or can I use the higher amperage charger safely?
Thanks
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
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None whatsoever.
ive been reading that the phone is capped at ~0.65A for charge rate
@mettleh3d
if you had turned off WiFi it would probably have reached 100% before 5 hours using the 0.7A charger
using the included 1A charger it takes exactly 3hr+45m to go from 0% to 100% measured
AllGamer said:
using the included 1A charger
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Click to collapse
Was I cheated by T-Mo? The charger that came with mine is labeled "travel charger" and is .7A.
Actually guys, there are drawbacks to using higher amperage.
The standard charger of 1.0 amps was bundled with the battery because it was engineered that this combination would yield around 300 charging cycles before the battery starts losing it's efficiency.
The faster (higher amps) a charger you use the faster your phone will charge. However, fast charging cycles negatively affect the longevity of the battery. Fast charging cycles also will severely increase the charging temperature of the phone and its battery and depending on how high it gets, it may be detrimental to the phone or battery. The higher amps the charger is, the quicker the battery will start being less efficient. Put in other words, if you use a 2 amp charger every day, the battery may only last 200 charging cycles before you start noticing that your battery is getting weak.
Conversely, if you use a lower-specced charger than the 1.0 Amps Samsung provided, your battery longevity may improve. I do not have numbers exactly but if you are interested, go read on the subject. My guess is if you use the 0.7 amp charger, you may be able to successfully get 320 or 330 charge cycles out of your battery. Again, don't quote me on these numbers.
I'd suggest for every-day usage you continue using your 1.0 Amp charger that Samsung provided. For travel or on the spot (when you quickly need battery juice) feel free to use the 2.0 amp charger. As long as you don't use the 2.0 charger every day, you are fine. Every now and then is perfectly acceptable.
thanks alienz, was hoping for a detailed response like this.
Technically phones have regulators that only allow an amount of amps to be charged with. But I would only charge with the Samsung included one. Like I tried to use Apples charger block but it somehow charged my phone slower
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yup, i can confirm from experience from my previous phones
it's mostly the heat that damages the battery, it doesn't really affect the phone itself
}{Alienz}{ said:
The faster (higher amps) a charger you use the faster your phone will charge. However, fast charging cycles negatively affect the longevity of the battery. Fast charging cycles also will severely increase the charging temperature of the phone and its battery and depending on how high it gets, it may be detrimental to the phone or battery. The higher amps the charger is, the quicker the battery will start being less efficient. Put in other words, if you use a 2 amp charger every day, the battery may only last 200 charging cycles before you start noticing that your battery is getting weak.
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IMO my time is worth more than a few extra cycles of a battery. Just pick up a few extra ones. Not like the OEM will last forever if you trickle .001 A into it every time.
+1
madman604 said:
IMO my time is worth more than a few extra cycles of a battery. Just pick up a few extra ones. Not like the OEM will last forever if you trickle .001 A into it every time.
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i carry always a spare pack with me
and an extra one is always ready in the office, and another at home, and one more in the car, i keep swapping the car one more often just because it's winter and it's also the one that will get charged the least if i leave it in the glove box
AllGamer said:
i carry always a spare pack with me
and an extra one is always ready in the office, and another at home, and one more in the car, i keep swapping the car one more often just because it's winter and it's also the one that will get charged the least if i leave it in the glove box
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That thing you said about heat...
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mettleh3d said:
That thing you said about heat...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
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really cold batteries dont work.
First a little ohms law: I = V / R. Amps(I) = Volts(V) divided by Resistance(R)
The phone charger probably puts out 5 Volts (mine does). The resistance is determined by the phone. So the charge current is not going to change just because you have a 2amp charger vs a 1amp charger. The only way to force more amps into the phone is to increase the voltage of the charger. For example say the phone resistance is 5 ohms, then the charger will put out 1 amp (5V/5R). To charge at 2 amps, you would need to up the voltage to 10 volts. DO NOT DO THAT! YOU WILL DISTROY THE PHONE!
It is also probable that the phone has an internal charging circuit to control the actual current to the battery, so that if you leave the charger plugged into the phone, the battery does not overcharge. That circuit is going to cut off the voltage to the battery when is senses the battery is fully charged.
If the phone is trying to pull more amps then the charger can provide, the charger will be getting quite hot. As long as the charger is not hot, then it is providing enough current for the phone to charge properly.
While your logic is sound, the HP touchpad charger definitely charges the device faster than the included brick.
The phones internal charging circuit will only draw as many milliamps as its designed for.
If its designed to only draw 750mA because thats all the circuit is designed to draw max on A/C then thats all it will draw off the 2000mA adapter.
The speedier charging is a placebo effect.
Just because a power source can supply it does not mean the device will use it all.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1332522
read this. exhaustive testing and info !
madman604 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1332522
read this. exhaustive testing and info !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A faster charge off the OEM adapter that outputs 750mA as opposed to a usb port that outputs 450-500mA max is not new news or surprising and makes total sense
This also does not negate my statement of the device will only charge as fast as the circuit allows it to. so if its designed for 750mA max, charging from a 2000mA charger will yield the same charge in the same amount of time but with a placebo effect, because users think bigger must mean faster, with out taking into account the basics of charging circuit mechanics and basic properties of electricity and current.
Your phone will only draw as much current as it needs to charge the battery, and if the circuit only needs 750mA, it is not designed to work with any more, then thats all it will pull, always. No exceptions.
I can test with all 3 chargers and post my results.
They will be from 0% to 100% no breaks, on airplane mode, and i wont touch the device other than to monitor progress now and again; probably overnight. battery indicator pro shows what time i plugged in and what time it reached 100%, i'll take screenshots throughout.
While I don't refute the circuitry inside and the rules they obey (im an MAE from UCLA), i really want to show that charging time is decreased with the 2A.
I can think of a couple of reasons it might charge slower with the 1amp charger.
1. The phone will pull more than 1amp when charging. I doubt that it does. I think the nominal charge rate is somewhere around 750mA.
2. The 1amp charger is defective. Maybe it only puts out 500mA. These little chargers are pretty realiable, but out of the millions they make, a few defective ones may get out.
3. The phone was not in the same state when you did the tests. For example, if you are overclocking, maybe you had different clock rates or governer selected. Or maybe there are some background apps, waking up, and slowing the charging time.
4. You are mistaken about how long it takes to charge.
-LF
Related
Can you help me out here? I'm a new Evo owner, but I have a background in electronics which spans nearly 50 years and a fairly comprehensive "technical" knowledge of lithium polymer batteries, chargers, and battery management protocols.
And I want to understand the issues that so many of you are experiencing with your Evo batteries. Why? Because I'm experiencing some of 'em too and if I understand what's happening I might be able to offer solutions. I already have a couple of theories and I even have some ideas for workarounds, but I'm missing a few pieces of the puzzle which I'm hoping you can help me find.
What I'd like to know is how long does it take you to recharge a dead or nearly depleted battery in your Evo. For this information to be useful I'll also need to know the size of the battery (in mAh) and the output of the charger (in mA).
Please note that I'm just as interested in how long it takes to charge a stock battery as I am in how long it takes to charge an extended battery. Likewise for wimpy chargers and high-output chargers. The more diverse the data is the more useful it will be.
So there you have it. Can you help me out? I'll be sharing my conclusions so you might be helping yourself too.
Pete
Reserved for data summary
2 hrs and 20 minutes roughly from dead to full. Stock battery, stock charging cable and adapter.
same, 2 hr 20 min dead to full 1500mAh charging at 1A. i average about 30hrs battery life.
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Interesting. In round figures a 2:20 (2.3hr) charge time for a 1500mAh battery indicates a ~650mA charge rate. This suggests that HTC has built a ~650mA charging current regulator into the Evo because a 1000mA (1A) charge rate would charge a 1500mAh battery in a little over 1.5hr.
The regulated charge rate isn't at all surprising. In fact, it's standard practice in consumer electronics devices. Most LiPo cells can safely be charged at 1C, which would be 1500mA (1.5A) for a 1500mAh battery, but they can react explosively when pushed harder. The folks who engineer consumer electronics also tend to stay well below maximum rates because they need to assume (among other things) that some people will continue to use batteries that are worn out or damaged and really should be replaced.
My primary reason for posting this thread and asking this question is to get enough evidence to determine whether the Evo could be charged faster with more powerful chargers, and the answer seems to be no. It can obviously be charged slower if someone uses a charger with an output below 650mA, but I'd be surprised if it could be charged any faster with a more powerful charger.
And FWIW, a dead 3500mAh battery would take about 5.4hrs to charge at a 650mA charge rate. My guess is this is even how long it will take in Seidio's external charger because the engineers would have to assume that people will also be charging OEM batteries in them.
But this is all assumption based on common engineering practices and 2 reports (so far). I'd sure like to have some more data to work with; especially data for different chargers and battery capacities. Another question I'd like to answer is whether the Evo has a mAh cap or a time limit on a charge cycle. The mAh cap could be tough, but a time limit might be pretty easy to work around.
I suppose I should add one more thing: My job as a maintenance supervisor for a pharmaceutical manufacturing and analytical lab requires that I'm reachable by phone at all times, so the experimentation I can do with my own phone is pretty limited. For example, I can't turn it off to charge the battery and I feel real uneasy about running the battery dead for testing purposes. My phone use habits seem to be served pretty well by the 1500mAh OEM battery but I'd like to have the reserve of an extended battery.
But not at the expense of having to remove the battery from the phone to charge it. That's a deal-breaker for me.
The bottom line is: Please keep posting your charge times and don't forget to include the output of the charger and the mAh rating of the battery. In return, I'll share any conclusions I come to so we can discuss them and possibly come up with a workable solution.
Pete
I'm draining my Sprint OEM extended battery (2600 mAh) and will post the results.
sk63 said:
I'm draining my Sprint OEM extended battery (2600 mAh) and will post the results.
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Click to collapse
That will be an interesting comparison.
If my calculation of a 650mAh charge rate is correct then it should take a little over 4 hours to charge, but that could be affected by whether the phone is on or off and what processes and apps are running if it's on.
I'm particularly interested in whether it will fully-charge or whether a mAh or time limit will interrupt the charge cycle before that happens.
Pete
It finally died and I started charging it at 12:25 without turning it back on. Using the stock AC charger.
Anecdotally, I use the Current Widget and when charging it hovers around 650mAh. And when discharging it's usually under 400mAh and with the screen off, well under 100mAh.
I believe the widget monitors the current in/out of the battery and that while charging, the current needed to run the phone bypasses the battery directly so the widget doesn't register it. Though I would need a multimeter to confirm.
I've also got the stock battery I'm draining using a Hero. After the extended finishes charging them I'll swap and charge while the phone is on and compare the rate.
EDIT: Extended took almost exactly 4 hours charge. Now testing the charge rate of the stock battery with the phone on.
Glad to see someone doing this, as a lot of different information is posted on this board about batteries and charging.
I just wanted to add that when looking at current widget logs, the charging rate does seem to change depending on the battery life, as you get close to full the charging rate does seem to gradually decrease until it is quite low, at least according to current widget. I have seen other users say that it is only the last ten percent that the phone does this, but I can't be too sure as using my phone usually interrupts the log and such.
At least the current widget logs give some indication of the charging rate changing under different conditions, if not at least the phone using more or less current for these conditions.
sk63 said:
Anecdotally, I use the Current Widget and when charging it hovers around 650mAh.
~~~ snippo ~~~
EDIT: Extended took almost exactly 4 hours charge.
Click to expand...
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Boy, I hit those two nails right on the head didn't I? That's the nice thing about electricity: It can easily be predicted with mathematics.
I'll be looking as soon as I post this, but where does one find this "current widget" and does it run on a non-rooted phone?
And sk63: Almost exactly? Thanks for the info!
Pete
PGRtoo said:
And sk63: Almost exactly? Thanks for the info!
Pete
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Click to collapse
It was like 4 hours +/- 5 minutes missed the exact moment when the light when green.
Stock battery with phone turned on took close to four hours as well. Phone usage didn't seem particularly high, maybe there was an issue in swapping the batteries.
So I'm guessing the 800 ma aftermarket charging cable I bought would be sufficient?
** As a sidenote, I wonder if this 650 ma limitation is hardware or software enforced? If software enforced, could we turn it off to hit closer to 1 amp? Couldn't a developer write an app to fix this? If not an app, perhaps a kernel?
This is kind of like a CPU being rated at 3.0 Ghz when it can safely run at 3.8 Ghz by people that know what they are doing. The 650 ma limitation is just "idiot" proofing.
If current widget is accurate, when charging I've seen my log read up to 900mah, I always figured this was how much current going into the battery. The more I use the phone the lower it goes.
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2:20 hours for a full charge? Dang, it only takes me about 1:27 to charge my dead battery to 100% with the phone on, stock battery.
Are you asking about higher mA chargers for the purpose of charging the stock OEM battery faster, or for being able to simply charge a higher capacity battery?
Does charging the battery faster have any negative or positive affects on the battery or battery life? Because I seem to remember posts talking about the differences between charger the evo with a stock battery from the wall charger vs charger from a usb on a computer. The wall charger would charge the battery much faster, but seemed to drain faster also. With the usb charger, charging took a longer time, but some were saying that it also lengthened the battery life (charge cycle). Now I don't remember if those were completely accurate results, but I suppose it made sense. But if it was true that a slower charge made for a longer battery life, whats really the difference? At that point, does it come down to battery/cell structure? Because electricity is electricity, for the charger its all dc. So how is the charging rate regulated when plugged into the computer?
These are just things that this thread has made me think of. My conclusion though, is that in regards to battery life, any fixes would all on the software side for now, at least if we are using the stock 1500mA battery. And every 10 people on this board have 15 different ways to increase battery life, whether through a certain rom or what-not.
I also read in another post, that battery technology is not advancing as fast as cellular technology is. So at the end of the day, we have an awesome phone that can literally do almost anything, shorter battery life was to be expected. But its no where near as bad as people were saying it was before june 6th (public launch date).
Just to throw in my .02 cents here...
The battery capacity of 1500mah is hardcoded into the evo's system.
This means that even the sprint extended battery suffers from the flaw of not being charged properly in the evo just like the seidios. I own the sprint extended and the seidios and they both demonstrate the same charging flaw while charging in the evo.
The hardcode is seen while the phone is on. While the phone is off it's possible there is some sort of hardware limitations imposed to keep the full battery capacity locked at 1500mah.
I have been looking into a way to possibly overwrite this hardcode on a rooted evo but so far my efforts have been null.
i believe temperature greatly effects charging and battery life as well.
my makita power tools have a 30 minute rapid charger and in order to get such quick charge times it uses a fan to cool the battery during the charge. the charger includes circuitry to slow down the charge rate if the temperature can't remain cool enough as well.
lithium ion batteries as well.
just shows ya, the batteries likely could charge much faster, but you'd have to incorporate some extra cooling so they don't get damaged.
i'd imagine the OP's assumption is about right.
jasongthang said:
But if it was true that a slower charge made for a longer battery life, whats really the difference? At that point, does it come down to battery/cell structure? Because electricity is electricity, for the charger its all dc. So how is the charging rate regulated when plugged into the computer?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock Evo battery pack contains a single 1500mAh 3.7V lithium-ion polymer (LiPo) cell. I haven't actually opened one up, but the larger "extended" battery packs probably contain a pair of 3.7V lithium-ion polymer cells wired in parallel which, for all practical purposes, is the electrical equivalent of a larger single cell.
Regardless, LiPo cells don't care whether you charge them slowly or quickly (within reason). There is no electrical or chemical reason why a LiPo that is charged slowly will release it's energy any differently than a LiPo that is charged quickly. The only difference might be that one which is constantly charged at a maximum rate may not be capable of as many charge-discharge cycles before it loses significant capacity. That, by the way, is what the phrase "cycle-life" refers to: The number of charge-discharge cycles a battery is capable of before it wears out.
And neither the internal charging circuit in the Evo or the Seidio external charger will charge a battery at anywhere near the most widely accepted maximum rate for a LiPo (1C). If they did they would charge a dead battery in about an hour.
Pete
Got LiPos?
Here are just a few of mine. The big ones are out in the hangar (garage).
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Pete
PGRtoo said:
Here are just a few of mine. The big ones are out in the hangar (garage).
Pete
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Those deans plugs piss me off sometimes. R/C enthusiast I take it.
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Hey, do you all know a way to charge the phone faster? maybe a kernel or something? It charges so slow and thats the only reason why i would return this phone. It's very annoying.
Solution: Get the charger in the pic below. it's amazing how much faster it charges and it charges the battery that is in the charger as well. 40 bucks.. def worth it.
I have noticed that when my phone battery is really low, if plugged into a usb port via charging cable that came with the phone, the phone still died. It does take a long time to charge though, is this due to the larger battery?
Charging really sucks
I noticed that yesterday more than ever. I was driving for many hours, and the whole time I had my phone plugged in. After a 13 hour day my phone would still not go above 15%. Granted I was using google maps and listening to podcasts on doggcatcher, but my evo never had a problem charging to 100% doing the same thing. Then I noticed the red notification light that turns on while charging was not even on. I turned off the phone removed the battery for a minute, then when I turned it back on and pugged it in the light came back on again. I hope I didnt just get a defective phone.
It's samsung i think. the regular galaxy s phones charge slow too. smh very annoying. the battery has nothing to do with it because I had an extended batter 3200MAH that be charging father than this on the Nexus 1 (HTC).. htc has better changing capabilties
Only way to charge it faster is to turn the phone off when charging. This is not a phone where you can throw it in the charger for 30 minutes and expect a quick recharge to last you through the evening (like HTC or Motorola phones).
Econ212 said:
I have noticed that when my phone battery is really low, if plugged into a usb port via charging cable that came with the phone, the phone still died. It does take a long time to charge though, is this due to the larger battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USB can provide .5A. The phone, when pushed to the limit can draw more than that which may be why your phone was actually discharging.
---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------
stepinmyworld said:
Hey, do you all know a way to charge the phone faster? maybe a kernel or something? It charges so slow and thats the only reason why i would return this phone. It's very annoying.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long is long? 2-3 hours for a full charge is normal when on AC power, 4-6 when on USB.
This assumes your are not actively using the phone, aka no gaming, netflix, etc.
i actually think this thing charges fast compared to the evo 3d. Mine charges fully from dead in about 1 1/2 hours.
i use the charger brick from my ipod instead of the samsung one though. It may put out more juice then that jacked up samsung one. that thing stinks, plus causes screen issues
I ran in to this with my EVO when Running Bluetooth, Full Bright and GPS while in the car. I purchased a 2amp charger for the car and have not had the same issues since going to 2.0amp.
Well I have tried this twice, and saw that battery charged faster. (but that's just me... Have not really tested to prove it really makes a difference)
I installed battery calibration from market and did that full charge and unplugged 10x then let drain. When I charged the phone it did it in record time since I had the phone.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program...
Econ212 said:
I have noticed that when my phone battery is really low, if plugged into a usb port via charging cable that came with the phone, the phone still died. It does take a long time to charge though, is this due to the larger battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone will only draw 450mA from a USB port. It can easily use more than that while running misc. tasks. You should only use a high Amperage charger when your battery is low (1A or higher) and limit USB cable use to when you're just transferring data or when you don't have another option.
Also the phone only uses 650mA MAX to charge the battery. The difference in what the 1A stock charger is able to provide should presumably allow you to run your phone at the same time without reducing the charging current. If this is true than a 1.5-2A charger would be ideal, allowing a fully dead battery to be charged in about 3 hours regardless of use.
BTW, this info is taken based on the work done with the i9100 sgs2. They currently have kernels that raise the charging rates to 550 and 750 respectively.
walord said:
The phone will only draw 450mA from a USB port. It can easily use more than that while running misc. tasks. You should only use a high Amperage charger when your battery is low (1A or higher) and limit USB cable use to when you're just transferring data or when you don't have another option.
Also the phone only uses 650mA MAX to charge the battery. The difference in what the 1A stock charger is able to provide should presumably allow you to run your phone at the same time without reducing the charging current. If this is true than a 1.5-2A charger would be ideal, allowing a fully dead battery to be charged in about 3 hours regardless of use.
BTW, this info is taken based on the work done with the i9100 sgs2. They currently have kernels that raise the charging rates to 550 and 750 respectively.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well we have someone a few post back that claims to charge battery from dead to full in 1 and 1/2 hours.
Mine takes at least 3 hrs to charge. My Nexus S takes 3 and 1/2 to 6 hrs.
I have use chargers ranging from .7a to 2a.
these top-shelf phones tend to user more power than necessary for a lot of functions. first off, if you're rooted try lowering the max frequency with setcpu and / or change the governor to conservative, or (recommended) on-demand with the power-save bias to about 450-700 so it increases to say 800mhz instead of 1200 (or about 250-400 bias for standard usage).
if you use the navigator a lot, you can put it in airplane mode after about 5min of travel and out will cache the rest of your route. gps still works in airplane mode. if you're at work you could always use airplane mode between breaks.
also try setting your display mode to standard instead of dynamic (if not already) when you have no plans to use apps that beg to be eye-candy.
remove unnecessary bloat widgets like calendar, google search, and task manager shortcut (they run services) and kill background data as often as you can.
airplane mode and/or max 500 freq while charging.
if you're using zedomax OC kernel v1 2 or 3, reboot the phone before you leave it idle for extended periods of time because it seems to have trouble underclocking again, our update to the v4.1 beta kernel (or newer) available on downloadandroidrom.com
this post took 8% of my battery
What are the odds we will get SBC coded into our kernel's, or was/is this just a HTC thing?
Mine works perfect. From about 15-20%, if I plug it in the wall, I'll get to full in about 1.5 hours.
wait how you do it?
There's an app 4 the Touch Pro2 called nueBattery2 that'd actually increase the draw from USB from .5mA to 1mA. Is this not possible 4 the E4GT?
The phone has to think it's plugged into AC to ask for more than 450 mah.
I believe it checks this via shorted data cables of the USB cord. The stock charger shorts those cables so the phone knows it can draw more amps. Settings/about phone /status will show you if its drawing 450 (USB) or more (AC). Using a non-oem wall charger can result in (USB) charging instead of AC even if the charger says 1000mah. Using a pure charging USB cable with the data wires setup correctly, plugged into a computer can give you AC charge rate albeit no data connection to your computer.
whatsitsnamenow said:
Only way to charge it faster is to turn the phone off when charging. This is not a phone where you can throw it in the charger for 30 minutes and expect a quick recharge to last you through the evening (like HTC or Motorola phones).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 on this. Noticed that if I turn the phone off when charging it charges twice as fast.
R1ptide said:
The phone has to think it's plugged into AC to ask for more than 450 mah.
I believe it checks this via shorted data cables of the USB cord. The stock charger shorts those cables so the phone knows it can draw more amps. Settings/about phone /status will show you if its drawing 450 (USB) or more (AC). Using a non-oem wall charger can result in (USB) charging instead of AC even if the charger says 1000mah. Using a pure charging USB cable with the data wires setup correctly, plugged into a computer can give you AC charge rate albeit no data connection to your computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. I use a USB cigarette outlet adapter in my car and running navigation and playing music at the same time would kill the battery while charging... until i shorted the two middle pins in the adapter.
walord said:
...i shorted the two middle pins in the adapter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, would this wrk w/ USB cables, & is there a way 2 still allow sync? Couldja post a pic or instructions?
Where can I get a decent 5V 2A wall charger?
I've searched through ebay, amazon, dealextreme, ncix, infonec, newegg, no avail yet.
erhh..... it's the first item on the search list
http://s.dealextreme.com/search/2A+wall+charger
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If you can order this one, get it. It can charge 2 phones at a time and is considered a rapid charger.
T-Mobile rapid charger
or you can also use one of these http://www.dealextreme.com/p/universal-ac-to-12v-car-cigarette-lighter-power-adapter-2705, with the 2A car charger that you already got
AllGamer said:
erhh..... it's the first item on the search list
http://s.dealextreme.com/search/2A+wall+charger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look at the 4th picture the "user instruction" clearly says it's 300-500mA. This item is mis-advertised...
The_Biz said:
If you can order this one, get it. It can charge 2 phones at a time and is considered a rapid charger.
T-Mobile rapid charger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This one is 2A? I can't find the specs.
AllGamer said:
or you can also use one of these http://www.dealextreme.com/p/universal-ac-to-12v-car-cigarette-lighter-power-adapter-2705, with the 2A car charger that you already got
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its output current is 500mA... and it seems a little weird to be honest...
513263337 said:
If you look at the 4th picture the "user instruction" clearly says it's 300-500mA. This item is mis-advertised...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After a second read, seems that the "user instruction" is not for that device. The picture on the instruction looks similar but is actually different from the device. So maybe the seller got things mixed up.
513263337 said:
This one is 2A? I can't find the specs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idk what the output is tbh. But I have several of their chargers and they charge fast. Faster, way faster than the slow stock charger.
____________________
Deebo took your bike too?
The_Biz said:
Idk what the output is tbh. But I have several of their chargers and they charge fast. Faster, way faster than the slow stock charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the T-989 circuitry is anything like the ATT Samsung Infuse, ATT Samsung GS2 or the Galaxy S1 variants the charging current is LIMITED by the ROM & hardware and the MAX current for the device limited by the chipset is ~600mah so a higher current charger won't help, it's probably placebo effect.
I believe Entropy512 on the ATT GS2 forum has done some heavy investigation into the integrated chipsets in the phones used for charging these devices and has confirmed these limitations using the manufacturers chipset specs.
He was able to jack up the max charge current about 100mah or so on a couple devices in the kernel. But a larger charger is going to make very little if any difference. The phone automatically current limits to prevent overcharging the battery or at worse an explosion. These batteries are very dangerous at too high current.
Bottom line is you could use a 10amp charger and the phone will only charge at it's rated capacity which a WAY WAY below 2000mah and probably no more than 700mah on these phones.
I'm on the stock rom and these chargers are better than the stock though. The car charger version can charge the phone very fast (within an hour). I know from use that these can charge a stock gs2 faster than the stock charger. I got them because the sensation took 8days 22minutes and 43 seconds to fully charge. And I kept them for the gs2.
The_Biz said:
I'm on the stock rom and these chargers are better than the stock though. The car charger version can charge the phone very fast (within an hour). I know from use that these can charge a stock gs2 faster than the stock charger. I got them because the sensation took 8days 22minutes and 43 seconds to fully charge. And I kept them for the gs2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Electronics 101 says either you are incorrect or something is defective. If something is charging at 500mah (standard Samsung wall charger charge rate) and the capacity of the battery is 1850mah it must take less than 4 hours. 1850/500=3.7hrs (which probably can vary 25% depending on a number of variables). If it fully charged from zero to 1850 in "less than an hour" that means the phone is being charged at a rate of almost 2AMPS/hour. If that is the case (and it is not) your phone would have been a pile of molten smoking plastic because the charge rate of the phone is limited to AROUND 600mah. 2000mah, which is about what a 1hr charge from empty to full would be on an 1850mah battery would wipe out the phone and/or probably explode the battery.
Either your phone battery is displaying incorrect "emptyness" or something else is wrong because what you describe is not possible. Either the 8 days or the 1 hour on an empty battery unless SOMETHING is off.
Really? The phone has its own max of 600mA? You are the first one I heard that has this information. If this is true then it's a little mind blowing... Everybody else is recommending using some higher current charger...
MisterEdF said:
Electronics 101 says either you are incorrect or something is defective. If something is charging at 500mah (standard Samsung wall charger charge rate) and the capacity of the battery is 1850mah it must take less than 4 hours. 1850/500=3.7hrs (which probably can vary 25% depending on a number of variables). If it fully charged from zero to 1850 in "less than an hour" that means the phone is being charged at a rate of almost 2AMPS/hour. If that is the case (and it is not) your phone would have been a pile of molten smoking plastic because the charge rate of the phone is limited to AROUND 600mah. 2000mah, which is about what a 1hr charge from empty to full would be on an 1850mah battery would wipe out the phone and/or probably explode the battery.
Either your phone battery is displaying incorrect "emptyness" or something else is wrong because what you describe is not possible. Either the 8 days or the 1 hour on an empty battery unless SOMETHING is off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Argue after you've tried the charger I mentioned.
Edit: The 8 days was a joke. Saying the sensation is slow.
The_Biz said:
Argue after you've tried the charger I mentioned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe what you wish. Either the charging indicator on your phone was/is showing incorrect information (ie: showing discharged when it really isn't so it seemed to "charge faster") or something else is wrong. As I said, the phone is limited by it's circuitry to it's charge rate. There is no way around that.
---------- Post added at 08:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 AM ----------
513263337 said:
Really? The phone has its own max of 600mA? You are the first one I heard that has this information. If this is true then it's a little mind blowing... Everybody else is recommending using some higher current charger...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely, it is current limited as is any electronic device especially those using Lithium Ion batteries which can easily explode if charged too fast (note the recent Chevy Volt problems). If it was not limited you could theoretically plug it in to a 10amp DC charger and fully charge it in 10 minutes or less. I know that the Infuse and AT&T i777 GS2 are either current limited at 500 or 600mah, Even if this device was 700mah because it has a larger battery it still can't be charged in anywhere near 1hr from empty to full.
Entropy512 over on Samsung Infuse and now Galaxy S2 i777 boards actually spec'd out the chip on the phone from the manufacturers data sheets as well as verified it by testing. He discovered the charging rate can be modified a bit in the Kernel and did jack it up a few mah.
SOMETHING internal has to limit the amount of current that goes into the battery and when to reduce it to a trickle charge and then shut it off.
This is what happens to a Lithium Ion batter when you overcharge it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS2hGoJVmlA or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjAtBiTSsKY or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjAtBiTSsKY (the last one, a laptop, is my favorite).
Yes, higher rated chargers will help to an extent because Samsung (or any manufacturer) has to conservatively rate it's chargers for safety. Their stock chargers are IIRC rated at 500mah. The phone can still handle maybe 600 or 700mah so a higher rated charger WILL charge somewhat faster if it can produce the 700mah rather than the 500 (or less) mah.
However to charge the phone with its 1850 mah (1.85amps/hr) battery in 1 hr from 0 to full would require approx 2AMPS in 1 hour which far exceeds the circuitry OF THE PHONE.
If it did SEEM TO happen either the phone is showing discharged when it's really 3/4 full or the battery is defective and is no longer able to take a full charge and is showing full when it is really on 1/4 full.
Putting 2000mah (2amp/hr) into this battery which would be what would be needed to charge it in an hour would literally blow it up so the charge rate MUST be (and is) limited by the device itself.
Check out Entropy212 on the other boards for more technical details for the other Galaxy "family" devices. This one is no different.
either way the math might be right, but i doubt that's the case
else how do you explain it actually works?
with a 2A charger it finishes charging faster than with a 1A charger
and either of those are faster than the stock charger
the battery doesn't over heat either, it gets warm just like when you use the stock charger
AllGamer said:
either way the math might be right, but i doubt that's the case
else how do you explain it actually works?
with a 2A charger it finishes charging faster than with a 1A charger
and either of those are faster than the stock charger
the battery doesn't over heat either, it gets warm just like when you use the stock charger
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I explain it this way: It does not work. It is impossible. It's electronics 101. You can't charge and 1850mah battery with 600 or 700 mills (which is what the phone allows) in 1 hour. Just like you can't turn water into liquid gold.
As I have explained before:
It may LOOK like it's working for any of the following reasons:
The battery is defective and is not fully charging. Maybe it's only charging half way and when charging ends it shows full.
The phone is showing a full charge when it really is not fully charged.
The battery is showing discharged when it really is not thereby taking a short time to charge it back up.
Here is a thread with pretty much proof. This guy has a good HP brand 2amp charger and it takes 3hrs 15 minutes to charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1349373 which is exactly how it should be.
If the battery charged in 1hr it would get so hot the phone would probably melt. Believe what you want, you cannot charge this device in an hour from fully drained to FULL charge. The internal circuitry will not permit it. It has been documented in the ATT GS2 and ATT Infuse threads exactly what chipset is used and what the current limiting specs are from the chip manufacturers data sheets by a well respected developer. This phone is no different. It's charging rate is LIMITED by the phone to 600-700mah. Maybe you can push it to 3hrs by tweaking the charge rate in the kernel but 1hr is not possible and would be very dangerous.
DUDE!
Try the charger I mentioned and then come back here and tell me how your phone is messed up, reading wrong, charging wrong, stupid, can't read its own charge rate, eats twinkies or whatever.. Jeezus...
The t-mobile branded chargers, charge faster than the stock chargers. I've tried this on a hd2, blackberries, htc sensation and a t-mobile sgs2..... . Some people, boy I'll tell ya.
I have had these car chargers for a year and every phone I've hooked it to, can charge really fast. But I guess there's no way on earth, according to you, this is possible.
T-mobiles chargers are rapid chargers. Even nextel use to sell rapid chargers for their phones. The phones came with a slow charger, and they sold a faster charger for like $20. That was back in the 90's.
And I have 3 t-mobile branded chargers. So I guess all of them and the phones are all damaged.
---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:37 PM ----------
MisterEdF said:
This guy has a good HP brand 2amp charger and it takes 3hrs 15 minutes to charge: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1349373 which is exactly how it should be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And since "this guy" has a hp charger, there's no way on earth a person could have one of a different brand that actually charges faster. How dare I argue this with a guy who knows so much....
---------- Post added at 09:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:43 PM ----------
And here, this was the reason I bought them, from this article.
READ!
t-mobiles-new-charger-line-is-surprisingly-interesting-fast-e/
"and all of them promise to charge your handset 20 to 50 percent faster than a standard model"
---------- Post added at 09:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:47 PM ----------
Maybe engadget doesn't know about the hp charger guy and they all have defective phones with defective batteries too?
@MisterEdF
I'd rather believe in the actual proven to work results.
because it's been working exactly like that for the past several phones i've owned
simple enough prove when the phone is plugged in with the stock charger, the battery level (battery %) will keep dropping instead of charging if GPS, Bluetooth, Screen, and/or GPS is constantly ON, the battery will never charge, it will just run dry eventually
reason why you see many members reporting it takes them 9 hours to charge or 18 hours to charge
the phone is draining the battery faster than it can replenish itself
in the other hand if you use a more powerful charger, 1A or 2A then you will actually see the battery gain charge (gain %) as the phone is in continue use.
with a 1A charger the battery level remains pretty much flat during charge, with all the features enabled
with a 2A charger it gains battery level, even when all the features are enabled
here's another point of view...
with the stock charger the battery loses 3% in 15 minutes with all the features enabled
with the 2A charger the battery gains 3% in 15 minute with all the features enabled
the only way for the stock charger to gain 3% in 15 minutes is to turn off GPS, turn off WiFi, turn off Bluetooth, and keep the screen off
Does that make sense using your math? No, but that's real life vs. math equations
And omg, look - T-Mobile branded car charger.
Even t-mobiles description says "·Charge faster while on the go"
Holy ****!
Hey guys,
I've used my HP touchpad charger a couple times now and it seems to drastically speed up charging. I thought I'd see if anyone else had experienced this as well.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not right. The charging speed is limited by the battery and their charging managemend, not by the charger. If the battery management is configured at 1A it is charging with 1A even if you use a 2A charger.
If you can charge the HTC One with a bigger charger faster than it is not negative for the battery because it's allowed by the battery management. But I don't think, that it is really faster. I will test it for myself later with the 2A Charger from the ipad.
jhonsok said:
I would not recommend using tablet chargers like that. Although it does speed up charging I think you might also wear out your battery quicker.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do know where this is coming from but just isn't the case anymore. All batteries made for cells phones in the last 2 years have smart charging chips in them. Meaning they can not overcharge, charge too fast, or discharge too much. These batteries have tech built in that could charge them in about a hour. People think this was disabled to help prolong the life of the battery. This is also false. Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
jonstatt said:
Can someone explain why the power capability of the charger makes any difference?
Rules of electronics. V = IR or in this case I = V/R Current = Voltage / Resistance
By definition if too much current is drawn from the power supply the voltage will collapse. Similarly, at any given voltage and input resistance, the current will never exceed a certain level.
So the worst that can happen is you damage a power supply trying to charge a greedy iPad with an under spec'd power supply.
But I see certain devices that say, never use a 2A charger as it can damage the device? Why? By definition it will never draw more current than the circuit is designed for.....what am I missing?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nothing at all :cyclops:
Now if you use a .5 amp you do run the risk of burning it out as the device will try and pull more than .5amp and will succeed putting too much strain on the charger.
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
VeixES said:
AFAIK the charging voltage/amperage is dynamically controlled by software(kernel). Starting from empty the voltage will be higher, but decreasing when battery is getting fuller.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The voltage of the power supply should be a controlled 5V (I know some poor supplies are not so perfect). The only way of changing the current being drawn is to change the resistance , but that would be a constant as determined by the battery itself (its current draw will change depending on how full it is at the time). If there was actually a charge controller circuit in the phone itself, then it should not matter whether you have 2A, 5A or 50A, because it should only ever draw the power it needs. Also if there was effectively a "short circuit" and you tried to draw 2A from a 1A power supply, the power supply voltage would collapse and charging would simply stop. Therefore the charging circuit will have been designed with an expected current flow. As voltage is 5V and the input resistance always remains constant, the charging current can never be more or less than what was intended by design! Of course if the power supply outputs 10V instead of 5V, then it WILL draw more current and do lots of damage!
Think of it this way. If you run at 5 mph, it doesn't matter whether you are 3 feet tall or 6 feet tall, you will still arrive at the destination at exactly the same time.
There are different cables that can be purchased that essentially have just the positive and negative connections in use. This removes the control connections that allow the phone to regulate the amount of power so it allows the device to charge at a faster rate.
I have used these cables for years on many devices and have never had a problem but it is worth noting that I only use them sparingly and the vast majority of the time I use the standard chargers that come with the devices.
MG
Stop with the FUD people, the only thing that matters is the voltage of the charger. It needs to be 5V or else it will damage the phone. Otherwise, the phone will self limit the amount of charge taken in.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
fast charging batteries is not as good as slow charging for the batteries. It's not terrible, but it is worse for their health.
the smart chips in the phones are allowing to be faster charged = faster charge times. HTC probably allowed this because they knew it would pacify complaints about their slow charge.
The htc engineers saw it fit to include the charger they did, they know its charges slow, it's for a reason.
nullkill said:
Fast charging does have a slightly negative effect but we are talking about 2% negative. So if the battery would have went through 2000 charge cycles normally than with a fast charge it would only last around 1180 charge cycles. It's a non difference. It is the reason people have been saying that the fast charge feature is disabled but they have no idea and it sounds good so the community here has decided it to be true.
Now technically it should not matter what amp charger we plug in as the phone should only take a certain amount. Now I know this is false as I also use the 2amp Touchpad charger and can confirm it does charge around 30% faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your numbers are a little off i'm afraid. If its only a 2% issue from 2000 charges.. you show 1180 to be then new charge..thats almost 50%. 50% would be 1000 charges.. 2% from 2000 would be 1960 Better number for your point
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
nugzo said:
Yeah it will degrade it quicker, but not significantly. I agree with the previous posts. Its fine to use a charger with higher amps than needed but its not good to use lower amps. (lower than 500ma) Lower amps will kill chargers quick. If usb is 500ma then these phones must be fine with variable amps (within its limits) I dont know what the variable numbers are but say its 500ma min, 2A max.. using a 3A charger or a 5A charger shouldnt make a difference in charge speed. It'll only draw 2A. (again hypothetical 2A here, 1.5 may be the max.) That being said... i wouldnt use a 2A as your primary or overnight charger though(unless you only sleep 3 hours ), no need for it..Since these phones dont have a replaceable battery your overnight charger should probably be 1A. Use a 2A during the day if you need a quick boost.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I used a Samsung 0.7A OEM charger for a while for my previous phones and always thought that the power is capped by the output of the adapter. If it's rated 0.7A the adapter can output up to what it was rated for; That is wrong on that assumption. Using Current Widget app also appear to support this as well as it was drawing on my S3, 0.999 mA when this adapter as in. I have switched to the 1A adapter because of that; the read outs using the app still shows up as 0.999 mA.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=40630411#post40630411
If using a higher one is no good like 2A, I guess we would be able to see what Current Widget saids as well. Supposedly the phone pulls what it needs to my understanding.
the_scotsman said:
Using a higher current charger will degrade the life of the battery faster than normal. It will also be hotter when chraging, thus further degrading the life of the battery.
Bear in mind USB2.0 can only provide 500mA and makes charging slower.
Using a 2A charger ON OCCASION will be fine, but long term use will degrade your battery, it's that simple.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
bob13bob said:
here's a source. HTC engineers decided to include the charger they did.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
banksc said:
Wow, aren't you a helpful one. There is much more to the H/W selection than what the charging circuit is capable of... Chargers don't "force" a current on the battery. The charging circuit draws what it needs from a charger, assuming it can supply what is drawn. A well designed charging circuit will draw no more than what the battery is capable of without damage. The only factor is heat, which should be accounted for at a nominal level. If heat was't properly accounted for, or they short changed the charging circuit (like the charger) there could be an issue long term.
As an application side note, I had a 2 or 2.1A charger on my Atrix 4G for the 2+ years I owned it and still on the original battery that will last me an 18hr day. You don't do anyone favors talking about stuff you don't know anything about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's already documented that other chargers charge the phone faster. HTC included a slow charger for a reason. You don't know more about battery technology then they do. Fast chargers are like $5 for us on amazon. htc can buy them for a $1. There reason is not cost. Why do you think HTC inclduded the charger they did.
There is no perfect battery with unlimited recharge cycles no matter how perfectly designed. Fast charging won't cause you device to explode, but it will accelerate the regular degradation process.
Htc knew people would complain about slow charging, so they allow other chargers to charge the battery faster on case by case, even if it means degradation (slight to moderate) of the battery over time.
You read more about fast charging vs slow charging in the battery geek forums.
banksc said:
I'd love to hear where your "simple" comment comes from? Facts, please. I will withhold my view until you can state sources... (Hint: heat will be the only factor in a properly designed system)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It comes from my own knowledge and experience. These are facts. If you choose not to believe them that's fine. And yes, I mentioned heat if you look back. And no, these are not properly designed systems.
The HTC One definitely takes a while to charge. What’s interesting however is that the charge curve gets the One to 85–90 percent under the normal 3 or so hours, it’s that last ten percent that takes forever. I also have confirmed that Qualcomm’s Quick Charge is not being used on the HTC One, for whatever reason, possibly to maximize compatibility with the portable USB battery chargers that are now proliferating. The PMIC is there, it just isn’t enabled. My guess would be that HTC wants to prioritize battery longevity and minimize any even potential extra wear since the battery on the One is sealed inside.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
source: http://www.anandtech.com/show/6747/htc-one-review/3
told ya =)
I have read all the wireless Qi charger threads and thought my particular insight and concerns may warrant a new thread. I am no battery or Qi charging expert, so please take this with the apppropriate grain of salt.
I purchased a generic Qi charger that is the same as many China made chargers like this one on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Docooler-Wireless-Transmitter-Charging-Dissipation/dp/B00F5STIUK. My concern with this unit, and many of the inexpensive ones being sold, is that they do not shut off after reaching full charge. Some will go to a lower trickle charge, (as I was informed by customer service for the popular Choetech upgraded charging pad available on Amazon), but my understanding is that neither continuouis charging nor trickle charging is good for Lithium Ion batteries. Take a look at the information at Battery University: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries and you will see that over time, these over-charging conditions will degrade the battery. It is nice to have a convenient charger that allows you to have the favorable condition of many small, topping off charges, rather than more fully discharging the battery (which is a no no), but if the charger does not completely shut off when the battery is at, or near, 100%, it may be just as bad. By the way, according to Battery University, it is also beneficial to run your battery charge somewhere below 100% and of course keep the battery cool.
So I keep reading about people being upset because their charger shut off at night and they don't have a full charge in the morning and then praise the units that apparently trickle charge like the Choe pad. From all the information I have read, this is just plain wrong from a battery performance and longevity standpoint. You DO want the unit to shut off on full charge and you do not want it to trickle charge (excess charging of any amount is not handled well by Li-ion). The units that shut off and that do not charge again without removing and replacing the phone will have less charge in the morning due to standby battery drain. The better units will shut off at, or near, 100% and will automatically charge again when the battery drains slightly. (This is not to be confused with trickle charging, where the battery is constantly at 100%). Its very difficult to find affordable chargers that meet this basic criteria. So far, the Zens Qi charging pad is one of the few that is clearly reported as doing this right.
Because I hope to keep my Nexus 5 for a few years and maintain battery health, I would certainly appreciate additional input on this subject and any suggestions on other charging pads that meet this requirement.
The Nexus 5 does NOT have a lithium ion battery. So there's one mistake.
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Sent from my Nexus 5 (LG-D820)
ChazzMatt said:
The Nexus 5 does NOT have a lithium ion battery. So there's one mistake.
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Sent from my Nexus 5 (LG-D820)
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Sure it does
wyrman said:
Sure it does
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No it does not. Go do some research. It has a different type of lithium battery.
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Sent from my Nexus 5 (LG-D820)
ChazzMatt said:
No it does not. Go do some research.
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Sent from my Nexus 5 (LG-D820)
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http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Nexus+5+Teardown/19016
Lithium polymer
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twister99403 said:
Lithium polymer
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EXACTLY. NOT Lithium Ion.
wyrman said:
Sure it does
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Actually, you are right that it has a lithium ion polymer battery, abbreviated LiPo, but Battery University states "charge and discharge characteristics of Li-polymer are identical to other Li-ion systems." It is about thin manufacturing, not needing a rigid grid. and apparently does not change any of the other characteristics. So my assumptions and conclusions above, still stand.
Lithium Polymer is different, from what I read..
http://www.androidauthority.com/lithium-ion-vs-lithium-polymer-whats-the-difference-27608/
ChazzMatt said:
EXACTLY. NOT Lithium Ion.
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Exactly. I was referring that to Mr. Matter of factly that said sure it does haha
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Easy mistake to make. But as some have pointed out in the other thread that website is quite ancient and does not pertain to modern batteries.
stuartmc said:
I have read all the wireless Qi charger threads and thought my particular insight and concerns may warrant a new thread. I am no battery or Qi charging expert, so please take this with the apppropriate grain of salt.
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Think first about your USB wired charger. When the battery reaches its capacity, does the charger stop providing current to the phone? Of course it doesn't. It doesn't pull itself out of the wall socket and of course it's not smart enough to know the capacity of the battery. It will always have the capacity to deliver current to the phone's battery, but the protective circuitry of the phone won't allow it.
I really don't understand the concern here.
ChazzMatt said:
Lithium Polymer is different, from what I read..
http://www.androidauthority.com/lithium-ion-vs-lithium-polymer-whats-the-difference-27608/
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Sorry you are correct
ChazzMatt said:
EXACTLY. NOT Lithium Ion.
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It's actually a lithium ion polymer battery, a cheaper to make lithium ion battery using a polymer electrolyte.
floepie said:
Think first about your USB wired charger. When the battery reaches its capacity, does the charger stop providing current to the phone? Of course it doesn't. It doesn't pull itself out of the wall socket and of course it's not smart enough to know the capacity of the battery. It will always have the capacity to deliver current to the phone's battery, but the protective circuitry of the phone won't allow it.
I really don't understand the concern here.
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I guess my concern is that the Qi charging may be different than charging through the USB port. Do we know for a fact that the phone's "protective circuitry" will stop the current flow in the inductive path? There apparently is something different going on, at least with the Nexus 5, because Choetech support said that charging on their pad completely shuts off with the Nexus 4, but goes to trickle charge on the Nexus 5.
Any gains would be minimal. You're only delaying the inevitable, you're buying yourself a few extra minutes of battery life for a few extra weeks after many months/years of usage. Just trust the engineers and use the tech as it is intended. Don't twist yourself into a pretzel, leave Qi charging tech or battery tech speculation to the engineers, not people who post in forums. If you care so much about these minimal gains, after a year, you'd probably still care enough to buy a replacement battery to get day-one longevity. It's stupid easy to replace the battery in this phone anyway.
quentin0 said:
Any gains would be minimal. You're only delaying the inevitable, you're buying yourself a few extra minutes of battery life for a few extra weeks after many months/years of usage. Just trust the engineers and use the tech as it is intended. Don't twist yourself into a pretzel, leave Qi charging tech or battery tech speculation to the engineers, not people who post in forums. If you care so much about these minimal gains, after a year, you'd probably still care enough to buy a replacement battery to get day-one longevity. It's stupid easy to replace the battery in this phone anyway.
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Good point, but since you posted here, does that mean that I should discount your speculation as to minimal gains as well? Lol.
From my experience, the firmware of your phone actually plays a role if the Qi charger turns itself off or not. For example, When I bought my Nexus 4 on release, I also bought a Maxell Qi charger at the same time. When my N4 was running stock 4.2 (i never root), the Qi charger would stop charging my phone when it hit 100%, stays off until it dropped to 95%, where the Qi turns on again to top up. And by the Qi charger turning off, the charging light on my Qi charger turns off too, so it's obviously not feeding it any power. Also the charging electric bolt icon on the phone disappears too. This behaviour on my N4 continued until 4.2.2. When I bought the N7 (2013) which ran 4.3, same behaviour.
But when my N7 was updated to 4.3.1, the charging behaviour changed. Upon reaching 100% it would say charged on phone's unlock screen, Qi charger light still lit, and battery bolt icon still on. Basically the same behaviour when the phone/tablet is at 100% charged with the USB plugged in. This behaviour also happened when my N4 was was also updated to 4.3.1. Note this was still using the same Maxell Qi charger I bought back on N4 release. When I N5 arrived, it also has this same behaviour.
Also I recently bought a cheap China brand Qi charger "Maxpower", when after 100% charge (trickle charging) for a while the phone is a lot more warmer while on my Maxell charger the phone cools down, also shown on my battery monitor app. I'm assuming that the Maxell goes into "low power mode". My conclusion is that the phone does control the charger to a certain extent, but at the same time the charger has to support a low and/or off state, which the Maxell does and the Maxpower does not.
This is the kind of information I was looking for, thank you. I think it is important to get the right charger that interfaces with the new firmware of the Nexus 5. Apparently, some charges do it right, and some don't. I too am concerned about the increased heat with the so-called trickle charge like your Maxpower unit. The combination of "over-charging" and increased heat, is about the worst mojo you can have for these types of batteries. As a previous poster stated, it may have only a minor effect over the lifespan of the battery, but since I don't know that with certainty, I just as soon take "the stitch in time that saves nine."
Makaijin said:
From my experience, the firmware of your phone actually plays a role if the Qi charger turns itself off or not. For example, When I bought my Nexus 4 on release, I also bought a Maxell Qi charger at the same time. When my N4 was running stock 4.2 (i never root), the Qi charger would stop charging my phone when it hit 100%, stays off until it dropped to 95%, where the Qi turns on again to top up. And by the Qi charger turning off, the charging light on my Qi charger turns off too, so it's obviously not feeding it any power. Also the charging electric bolt icon on the phone disappears too. This behaviour on my N4 continued until 4.2.2. When I bought the N7 (2013) which ran 4.3, same behaviour.
But when my N7 was updated to 4.3.1, the charging behaviour changed. Upon reaching 100% it would say charged on phone's unlock screen, Qi charger light still lit, and battery bolt icon still on. Basically the same behaviour when the phone/tablet is at 100% charged with the USB plugged in. This behaviour also happened when my N4 was was also updated to 4.3.1. Note this was still using the same Maxell Qi charger I bought back on N4 release. When I N5 arrived, it also has this same behaviour.
Also I recently bought a cheap China brand Qi charger "Maxpower", when after 100% charge (trickle charging) for a while the phone is a lot more warmer while on my Maxell charger the phone cools down, also shown on my battery monitor app. I'm assuming that the Maxell goes into "low power mode". My conclusion is that the phone does control the charger to a certain extent, but at the same time the charger has to support a low and/or off state, which the Maxell does and the Maxpower does not.
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From the pic it shows that its a Lithium Ion Polymer Battery!!! That's straight from the I fix it site!!