Develop Bugs

Ouch I feel like I am going to regret

My TP2 just shipped (I guess I'll recieve it in 2 or 3 days) and I just saw today that the Omnia Pro is set to be out in August
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/samsung-b7610-louvre-rematerializes-specd-and-caught-on-camera/
Much more powerful processor than the TP2 AND slimmer phone
Aaaahhh I feel so bad
That said I think the TP2 looks better (but it's fatter..........)

TP2 still better IMO.
I only thinking of HTC Snapdragon based device after this.

Better ? Mmh I dont think so but I hope I am wrong
I also forgot about the better camera, and extra memory
But yeah I love TOuchFlo + the great support from XDA, so... at least that gives me a bit less regrets (Besides the keyboard of the TP is probably better (Though I dont care that much)

Alcibiade said:
My TP2 just shipped (I guess I'll recieve it in 2 or 3 days) and I just saw today that the Omnia Pro is set to be out in August
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/12/samsung-b7610-louvre-rematerializes-specd-and-caught-on-camera/
Much more powerful processor than the TP2 AND slimmer phone
Aaaahhh I feel so bad
That said I think the TP2 looks better (but it's fatter..........)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read that the interface is (at least at the moment) sluggish despite the CPU, and I hate the ergonomics (tilt, keyboard) of the device. I'm curious about 2 things on the OmPro, 1) how much battery life the AMOLED screen saves over LCD and 2) what performance increase comes from the video acceleration it advertises. For now, I actually have more good to say about the cheaply constructed acer m900.
Specs aren't everything[/sacrilege].

fortunz said:
I read that the interface is (at least at the moment) sluggish despite the CPU, and I hate the ergonomics (tilt, keyboard) of the device. I'm curious about 2 things on the OmPro, 1) how much battery life the AMOLED screen saves over LCD and 2) what performance increase comes from the video acceleration it advertises. For now, I actually have more good to say about the cheaply constructed acer m900.
Specs aren't everything[/sacrilege].
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True I forgot the AMOLED screen
Even if it doesnt save much energy, you can at elast expect it to ahve way better contrast than regular LED screens
Specs arent everything, but it is Samsung. You can expect them to do much better than Eten

Much better pics there:
http://www.techchee.com/2009/06/14/samsung-louvre-b7610-pictures-and-specs/
Aaah it looks so slim compared to the TP2
Probably lighter as well I guess

Alcibiade said:
You can expect them to do much better than Eten
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Click to collapse
That depends on what you mean by "better". Better build quality and specs, sure. But there's almost nothing on the OmPro that really draws me in yet. The TP2's processor is fast enough. TP2's RAM (not clear on what amount of memory is reserved for active processes on the OmPro) is enough to do what I want. TP2's ergonomics are untouched and its interface has been optimized and honed across several past models.
What does draw my eye on the lower quality Acer device is that, out of the box, the biometric sensor that was designed solely for checking fingerprints multitasks--without making room for a big dpad, Acer has still provided what seems to be a very usable and versatile navigation aid while still saving space and adding a nice security feature. I suspect the TP2's zoom bar will also be hacked for similar functionality, but the added options aren't there out of the box. The m900 pulled a little rabbit out of it's hat with this one, and I think it deserves props.
I also noticed that the m900 has a built-in menu for auto-rotation settings by program, out of the box. The TP2 needs an external program for that functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if the OmPro did too.
I suspect a lot of people will be drawn to the OmPros based on the specsheet alone, and if that happens, I'm actually glad. That just means the TP2 will face some more price pressure, and I might get a better deal. If I sit down next to an OmPro user, I don't anticipate feeling envy so mush as pity, because long after they've started lusting after the next higher spec'd device (often probably for little reason other than some of the numbers are "bigger"), I'm still going to be profoundly content with my choice.

fortunz said:
That depends on what you mean by "better". Better build quality and specs, sure. But there's almost nothing on the OmPro that really draws me in yet. The TP2's processor is fast enough. TP2's RAM (not clear on what amount of memory is reserved for active processes on the OmPro) is enough to do what I want. TP2's ergonomics are untouched and its interface has been optimized and honed across several past models.
What does draw my eye on the lower quality Acer device is that, out of the box, the biometric sensor that was designed solely for checking fingerprints multitasks--without making room for a big dpad, Acer has still provided what seems to be a very usable and versatile navigation aid while still saving space and adding a nice security feature. I suspect the TP2's zoom bar will also be hacked for similar functionality, but the added options aren't there out of the box. The m900 pulled a little rabbit out of it's hat with this one, and I think it deserves props.
I also noticed that the m900 has a built-in menu for auto-rotation settings by program, out of the box. The TP2 needs an external program for that functionality, and I wouldn't be surprised if the OmPro did too.
I suspect a lot of people will be drawn to the OmPros based on the specsheet alone, and if that happens, I'm actually glad. That just means the TP2 will face some more price pressure, and I might get a better deal. If I sit down next to an OmPro user, I don't anticipate feeling envy so mush as pity, because long after they've started lusting after the next higher spec'd device (often probably for little reason other than some of the numbers are "bigger"), I'm still going to be profoundly content with my choice.
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Click to collapse
My Hermes is fast enough too... It's a bit funny to say you pity people going for the best specs [Though I understand what you mean: implementation is key]. "Fast enough" always depends on what you are aiming for... If you want to do gaming with your phone, you are always happier to have something fast
It's very likely the Samsung camera will be better than the TP2 (Samsung is a camera maker, and the camera is supposed to have an autostabilizer + a flash)
It is quite obvious from the pics it is also slimmer and I find it difficult to say you prefer a fatter phone in your pocket (Personally I dont)
The screen is quite likely to look better than the TP2's (However the "touch" part of the screen may not be as good) and will draw less juice (how much less, that we dont know)
I do agree the interface should be better on the TP2 (though we may see TouchFlo 3D adapted for the Omnia) and the phone looks better (I dont like the Samsung black & orange look)
As far as the price is concerned you are most likely right. However I wont enjoy the pressure on price since I already orderd my unit
In the end I thnk the TP2 looks a bit better, but fatter and with specs probably not as good, for maybe a hiher price than the one rumored for the Samsung
Dont take me wrong, I love HTC (It's my second HTC device), but this doesnt prevent me from being critical and not acting like an inconditional fan boy
Anyway TP2 will be enough for me to wait for a Tegra device (We'll need it if we want decent games... Typically the new iPhone will probably rock for this (Until tegra arrives and potentially proves to be better)

I am not sure it looks thinner by a lot. Maybe a few mm. Nothing that you can really wow about it. Samsung will reveal this phone, if its true, this month. You will have some real measurements then. HTC will also be revealing a line of new phones on 24 June. So maybe there will be more surprises. Maybe some Snapdragon goodies.
Don't be sad, I have just ordered mine too and it has yet to arrive. I still waiting for my carrier to call me to pick it up (should be today, fingers x). There will always be new things arriving and new technologies that will beat todays tech. So why be sad. Knowing that this upgrade for me is what will keep me happy for another 12 to 18 months puts a smile on my face already. By then, there will be 1.0+ GHz CPUs, GBs of storage space, GBs of RAM, Millions of colours and brilliant LCDs. Maybe a TP3 even.
This phone won't be available until 3Q. Look at the Omnia HD. It was announced back in February. It came out in June (only in some countries and not even here in Asia yet). So it took nearly 4 months. And the styling of the phone changed completely. So don't hold your breath on it. If the annoucement is gonna be made in June / July. You won't see the phone until October at the earliest and we won't see it until Xmas in Asia. Samsung takes ages to launch their phones over here.
So why wait and the long face?

I think the touch pro 2 looks better, and the design (especially the keyboard) is better. Apart from the processor, I don't see any improvements..
There probably is a long way to go optimizing this new processor also.
This is the first omnia trying to get to the bussiness people, so I am curious how that will happen. I never seen the UI but it sound really good. If it's really that good, I think it will be available via this forum for us too

cocoaju said:
I am not sure it looks thinner by a lot. Maybe a few mm. Nothing that you can really wow about it. Samsung will reveal this phone, if its true, this month. You will have some real measurements then. HTC will also be revealing a line of new phones on 24 June. So maybe there will be more surprises. Maybe some Snapdragon goodies.
Don't be sad, I have just ordered mine too and it has yet to arrive. I still waiting for my carrier to call me to pick it up (should be today, fingers x). There will always be new things arriving and new technologies that will beat todays tech. So why be sad. Knowing that this upgrade for me is what will keep me happy for another 12 to 18 months puts a smile on my face already. By then, there will be 1.0+ GHz CPUs, GBs of storage space, GBs of RAM, Millions of colours and brilliant LCDs. Maybe a TP3 even.
This phone won't be available until 3Q. Look at the Omnia HD. It was announced back in February. It came out in June (only in some countries and not even here in Asia yet). So it took nearly 4 months. And the styling of the phone changed completely. So don't hold your breath on it. If the annoucement is gonna be made in June / July. You won't see the phone until October at the earliest and we won't see it until Xmas in Asia. Samsung takes ages to launch their phones over here.
So why wait and the long face?
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Click to collapse
Thanks for cheering me up. No reaso to be sad, it will be anyway definitely better than my Hermes (Cant believe all my friends switched from Hermes to iPhone...)
Anyway my purchase is exactly in the same purpose as yours: wait for mature, well balanced tegra or snapdragon phones with better screens, camera, etc... ie roughly 1 year from now

Alcibiade said:
Thanks for cheering me up. No reaso to be sad, it will be anyway definitely better than my Hermes (Cant believe all my friends switched from Hermes to iPhone...)
Anyway my purchase is exactly in the same purpose as yours: wait for mature, well balanced tegra or snapdragon phones with better screens, camera, etc... ie roughly 1 year from now
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are welcome mate!
There will be many of us sitting in the same boat for the next 12 months. Some will jump on and some will jump off. Hopefully support for this phone will be as great as the HD, so there will be many of more tweaks and upgrades to make this phone being 'THE' phone to have for 2009.

in my opinion, the TP2 will probably be the best in its class for the year to come even over any Samsung competition, mainly because of the stability and work put into the integration of the HTC software and WM OS. Samsung has great specs, but their software leaves a lot to be desired. I had an Omnia and a Blackjack 2 and they were extremely buggy, as with most WM machines I had. But with HTC Touch HD and onwards, they've really come close to making the OS as stable and quick as possible. The processor and specs look enticing on the new Samsung, but I'm confident that the TP2 will still out perform it in real life usage. (another case in point is that I had the Samsung INNOV8, the Nokia N96-killer...great hardware, but never came out with a new firmware and was always buggy and choppy to use).
So for right now, I don't think anyone should regret picking up the TP2 or Diamond 2...both excellent pieces of engineering. The real waiting should be for the next generation of snapdragon units...

tsaojam said:
in my opinion, the TP2 will probably be the best in its class for the year to come even over any Samsung competition, mainly because of the stability and work put into the integration of the HTC software and WM OS. Samsung has great specs, but their software leaves a lot to be desired...
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Click to collapse
Totally agree! I tried playing around with the TouchWiz and it is crap. Don't like it at all. Don't like the widgets and stuff on it where you can move things around. It makes it look messy. I was never keen on those moving around thingies. I know they are trying to achieve a desktop feel but it just looks weird on a vertical screen.

Alcibiade said:
My Hermes is fast enough too... It's a bit funny to say you pity people going for the best specs [Though I understand what you mean: implementation is key]. "Fast enough" always depends on what you are aiming for... If you want to do gaming with your phone, you are always happier to have something fast
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The device comes with DLNA, a connectivity regime that I gather is for displaying video between devices. I could understand an increasing need for speed for someone who wanted to store HD vids and TV-out them to an HD set, but there, I'd be skeptical that 800mhz would do the trick (which is part of why I mentioned being interested in how much performance you could get from the video acceleration mentioned in the specs) until I actually saw it in action. It's one of those things where, unless the vid accel is awesome, it probably works JUST well enough, and then in 6-12 months once the novelty wears and the defects really shine, the user is going to be drooling over some 1+ ghz snapdragons. Once you start looking at some of these devices on a price per month basis in situations like that, they look less attractive.
I'm not sure what games are available for WinMo that really push specs. Are you plugged into that? Is it just about looking for more hertz for better emulation performance? Or are there some serious native titles available that lag on current hardware or have settings you can crank up for better performance?
The thing is, there are tons of peeps who think 800mhz MUST be better than 500mhz, even though they have no particular application category where the processor is a real bottleneck. Clockspeed is, both in mobiles and desktops, a decreasingly useful metric for actual performance increases. Infrastructure is more and more important, and software optimization is the great undiscovered country in computing performance.
It is quite obvious from the pics it is also slimmer and I find it difficult to say you prefer a fatter phone in your pocket (Personally I dont)
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Click to collapse
If you look at girth as a single feature, you're right, it's hard to argue. If you look at it as a balancing act between features, then the question isn't "fatter or thinner" but rather "fatter with better ergonomics or thinner with worse ergonomics". In this case I'm weighing the TP2's 5 row, offset, well-spaced (and potentially better tactile feedback) keyboard and tilt ability against the apparently (are there measurements yet?) thinner OmPro without them. Given that we're talking about a couple of mm, I'm totally willing to sacrifice thinner for the ergonomics. It is a personal choice, but not an indefensible one
The screen is quite likely to look better than the TP2's (However the "touch" part of the screen may not be as good) and will draw less juice (how much less, that we dont know)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life in portables is a huge factor for me. It plays into usability in a big way. If AMOLED really delivers, I will be wooed, just not before I see hard proof. If Samsung can't deliver the type of resistive screen responsiveness HTC managed in this round, that might be wash.
Dont take me wrong, I love HTC (It's my second HTC device), but this doesnt prevent me from being critical and not acting like an inconditional fan boy
Anyway TP2 will be enough for me to wait for a Tegra device (We'll need it if we want decent games... Typically the new iPhone will probably rock for this (Until tegra arrives and potentially proves to be better)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will be my very first HTC, and my very first winmo. I look at devices based on what they bring to the table, not on who made them (thus the Acer props). So I'm not trying to attack you for being disloyal , just attempting to reassure you that the two things you mentioned in the OP weren't necessarily worth hari kari.
If someone will really rip off some of HTC's best work in the very near future and throw in a snapdragon, well, yeah, then let the disemboweling commence.

Guys,
according to today's release notes Omnia Pro has 135MB RAM.
1GB is for ROM.
That's a far cry from TP2's 288 MB RAM.
If this is true, it's just not enough, regardless of the nice screen (AMOLED), potentially faster CPU (Mhz is not everything, needs to be benched) and nicer camera.
On WM devices RAM is the 2nd most important thing after CPU or your device slows to a crawl

vasra said:
Guys,
according to today's release notes Omnia Pro has 135MB RAM.
1GB is for ROM.
That's a far cry from TP2's 288 MB RAM.
If this is true, it's just not enough, regardless of the nice screen (AMOLED), potentially faster CPU (Mhz is not everything, needs to be benched) and nicer camera.
On WM devices RAM is the 2nd most important thing after CPU or your device slows to a crawl
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeha if it's true you defintely cheer me up
135MB is a little bit weird number though...
Yeah Mhz is not everything (For instance I never ever owned a Pentium P4 ehehe) hwoever in this field Samsung processor have the repuation of usually being faster clock for clock (Again I agree with you it definitely depends on the architecture of the processor)

Just got mine today as said before. Let me tell you. NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER!
You will see when you get yours mate. Man, it's a beauty!

The guys gave you technical reasons why our tp2 is still better... mine is much more simple.. the tp2 is still prettier and sexier....

Is there kind of flash for camera in TP2? My X01HT has white beam turning on when activating "flash". Thanks.
cocoaju said:
Just got mine today as said before. Let me tell you. NO REGRETS WHATSOEVER!
You will see when you get yours mate. Man, it's a beauty!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Is this phone worth it?

So i'm thinking about getting a new phone, and i've been following the touch pro 2 for awhile since it was announced, and it's always caught my interest. Right now i'd be paying 350 since i'm under tmobile, i'm just wondering from peoples opinions is it worth it?
can someone layout the pros and the cons on the phone for me? thanks.

Welcome to forums
Of course it´s worth every cent!
Redundant if we post here pros and cons
Better read and search!!
Good luck,

I paid $688.88 for my unlocked/unbranded version a couple months back and I have no regrets.

Paid $525 and I can't put it down! Worth every cent and thank god I made the switch and left the Blackberry world. I will not lie, I did hesitate to leave my Blackberry 8900 even after tracking the TP2 for like a month. Blackberry has nothing on HTC TP2.

I guess imma just shut up and get it haha. sorry for not using the search function. just got really curious

Pros:
the lovely, lovely physical keyboard - I just can't tell you how useful this is;
large, bright, high-res screen (3.6", 800x480);
excellent support from this website;
very good call quality (so long as you don't get the T-mobile version);
some very neat business-oriented features (e.g. if you put the phone down face-down in mid conversation it automatically switches to speaker-phone);
noise-cancelling so other people can hear you clearly over traffic;
TouchFLO interface is quite nice;
running Windows Mobile means a huge range of downloadable apps;
built-in Word, Excel and Powerpoint support.
Cons:
not everyone likes Windows Mobile, and you find yourself dumped into it more often than you'd expect - this also limits you to 16-bit colour;
HTC and Qualcomm between them have somehow managed to arrange things so that 3rd party apps cannot make use of the GPU, which makes video playback decidedly iffy;
larger and much heavier than most phones (that's the price of the keyboard);
uses much the same hardware as phones released a year ago (much less powerful than an iPhone 3GS or even the latest Samsung models);
thoroughly mediocre camera with no flash;
no one version of the phone will work everywhere in the world (as far as I know);
most versions lack a 3.5mm headphone jack, so if you want to use anything other than the bundled headphones you need an adapter, and unless you have a very fancy adapter you can't listen to music on it and charge it at the same time;
unimpressive battery life;
resistive touch-screen is better than most, but less responsive than a capacitive screen and cannot ever support multi-touch (although a capacitive screen wouldn't allow you to use a stylus, so there are swings and roundabouts);
lack of on-board storage.

paid $900 for mine on ebay before official launch - been with it on safaris in Africa , paddled and plotted my course on lower Zambezi with hippos.... It's worth every cent.

AlCapone said:
paid $900 for mine on ebay before official launch - been with it on safaris in Africa , paddled and plotted my course on lower Zambezi with hippos.... It's worth every cent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wouldn't go that far but it is a great phone.
Saying that, like with every device I'd think seriously about what you want your phone to do.
I wanted a web browsing, business phone communicator. Its close to perfect.
If you're looking for a slim camera music player etc.? Stay well away.

Shasarak said:
resistive touch-screen is better than most, but less responsive than a capacitive screen and cannot ever support multi-touch (although a capacitive screen wouldn't allow you to use a stylus, so there are swings and roundabouts)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never say never
Especially the second one is a software only solution, since the Nokia 5800 also has a resistive touch screen.
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/9051_Multi-touch_on_resistive_touch.php
http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2009/03/03/nokia-5800-gets-experimental-multitouch/

ryohazuki said:
So i'm thinking about getting a new phone, and i've been following the touch pro 2 for awhile since it was announced, and it's always caught my interest. Right now i'd be paying 350 since i'm under tmobile, i'm just wondering from peoples opinions is it worth it?
can someone layout the pros and the cons on the phone for me? thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I moved to this phone from a G1 (and an iPhone before that) on tmobile, and IMHO this is the best phone available with tmobile 3G right now. Fast, stable, and with WM you have tons of options for customizing/personalizing your handset. So far (had it about a week) i really see no cons with this device, if anything it'd be its size, but its not a complaint by me, its the same size as a G1.

Shasarak said:
Pros:
the lovely, lovely physical keyboard - I just can't tell you how useful this is;
large, bright, high-res screen (3.6", 800x480);
excellent support from this website;
very good call quality (so long as you don't get the T-mobile version);
some very neat business-oriented features (e.g. if you put the phone down face-down in mid conversation it automatically switches to speaker-phone);
noise-cancelling so other people can hear you clearly over traffic;
TouchFLO interface is quite nice;
running Windows Mobile means a huge range of downloadable apps;
built-in Word, Excel and Powerpoint support.
Cons:
not everyone likes Windows Mobile, and you find yourself dumped into it more often than you'd expect - this also limits you to 16-bit colour;
HTC and Qualcomm between them have somehow managed to arrange things so that 3rd party apps cannot make use of the GPU, which makes video playback decidedly iffy;
larger and much heavier than most phones (that's the price of the keyboard);
uses much the same hardware as phones released a year ago (much less powerful than an iPhone 3GS or even the latest Samsung models);
thoroughly mediocre camera with no flash;
no one version of the phone will work everywhere in the world (as far as I know);
most versions lack a 3.5mm headphone jack, so if you want to use anything other than the bundled headphones you need an adapter, and unless you have a very fancy adapter you can't listen to music on it and charge it at the same time;
unimpressive battery life;
resistive touch-screen is better than most, but less responsive than a capacitive screen and cannot ever support multi-touch (although a capacitive screen wouldn't allow you to use a stylus, so there are swings and roundabouts);
lack of on-board storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dunno if this is considered reviving a dead thread or anything thats my own but
the size isn't a problem for me, i've owned a windows mobile phone before and liked it but whats wrong with the tmobile version? and is the battery life really that bad?

I'm pleased with mine. Basically I had an MDA for almost 3 and a half years, with a short try of a Wing. Great winmobile phone, haven't had too much battery problems, phone quality seems ok, better than the MDA.
And the phone senses when it's close to your ear--no more false button pushes!
Cheers,
Tom

ryohazuki said:
but whats wrong with the tmobile version? and is the battery life really that bad?
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Click to collapse
The t-mobile version is rather oddly configured. Most of what's wrong with it can be corrected (all in one hit if you don't mind flashing it with a different ROM) but it's a little fiddly. For example, the in-call volume seems to be lower on the t-mobile version - people complain that the sound is too quiet and "muffled". I believe this can be fixed by replacing a file with the equivalent from an unbranded phone, but it's still a fiddle if you expect things to work properly out of the box. I think the t-mobile version may also be set up to use Internet Explorer rather than Opera as the default browser. Again, it's not difficult to change this, it's just annoying.
The battery life is okay, but not great. If you're watching video clips or gaming you can completely drain a fully-charged battery in 3-4 hours.
Btw, one important draw-back that I forgot to mention is the lack of a D-pad - that's a real problem if you're a gamer.

General concensus for veteran WM users i found here is that almost all quite satisfied with TP2 out of the box, since these persons are coming from previous devices and know-well that TP2 is the 1st time HTC (almost) do it perfectly. In condition they didn't receive defect unit.
For new WM users, i see 50-50. But that's improvement, because with previous devices it can be as much as 20-80 (80% unsatisfied), with 20% are looking for ways to improve their devices. That's why now we have this great forum

i have the original EU version of this device and i must say that this is the best phone i used ever , and believe me i switch mobiles like socks ...
the most important thing for me is the stability of the OS , in my case i havnt done any soft reset since i got this device three weeks ago ( depens on your ROM version ect...)
another good thing is the speaker phone , try to compare it to the iphone 3gs and you will notice a big diffrence,

schizo said:
General concensus for veteran WM users i found here is that almost all quite satisfied with TP2 out of the box, since these persons are coming from previous devices and know-well that TP2 is the 1st time HTC (almost) do it perfectly. In condition they didn't receive defect unit.
For new WM users, i see 50-50. But that's improvement, because with previous devices it can be as much as 20-80 (80% unsatisfied), with 20% are looking for ways to improve their devices. That's why now we have this great forum
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Click to collapse
I would consider myself a wm vet, this is my 4rth wm phone and the TP2 if I purchase it will be my 5th. I can hardly run my TP at times because it is so slow. I have everything on my class 6 sd and some apps on my phone which is minimal. I am running nrg rom latest and I must say it is slow as balls.
I might even skip the tp2 because it shares the same chipset for att as the tp. Making it slow as balls but with a much larger screen. My favorite warez website just opened an Iphone section. all apps available, Gui much better, mms hacked, better graphics, shes lookin alot better these days. The tp2 just aint cuttin it as far as performance. I might just make the switch until HTC and winmo get there act together. Truely sad as I've been an iphone and apple hater for quite sometime. The truth is the tp2 lacks everything except the screen and keyboard. Winmo and htc are pushing me out with these piece of **** phones.
eh I might still get the tp2. I am seriously looking for reasons not to get the Icrap. Flame on aholes..

Well I've had the T-mobile version for about a month now and I have to say its pure Winsuace!!! Now as for the same chip set as the touch pro , that's not exactly ture. If you look around on the fourms, some one posted a link about where there was a dispute between Qulacom and another chipmaker about the cpu. So because of that the Touch Pros cpu contained some work arounds so it could be used and that made it slower. On the TP2 it contains no workarounds and its pretty snappy! Also I run a bunch of apps at once and it doesn't bog down So here's my two thumbs up!!!

i really dont see nothing wrong wit the tmo version of this phone.. besides the lack of 3.5mm jack and color change from the Euro version..
But the stock rom that comes with the phone is a bit off.. i had to flash it the first day i got it
but i wouldn't mind taking a euro version over the tmo one anyday.. one major reason that stop me from gettng the euro one is that it do not have 3G US bands on it.

Well it's too late now as I am now a proud owner of a Touch Pro 2
I love this thing already. flashed it with a new rom, whats the best radio to use? i'm not too familiar with the whole radio flashing thing like as in like whats the best one to use, so if someone could point me in the right direction? if not ill just search it.

Well it's too late now as I am now a proud owner of a Touch Pro 2
I love this thing already. flashed it with a new rom, whats the best radio to use? i'm not too familiar with the whole radio flashing thing like as in like whats the best one to use, so if someone could point me in the right direction? if not ill just search it.

Reviews of Sprint's HTC Arrive - UPDATED

http://www.wpcentral.com/sprint-s-htc-arrive-review
Sprint customers will be very pleased with the HTC Arrive and find the new Windows Phone 7 device was worth the wait. If you are currently using the Sprint Touch Pro 2 and like the fit and feel, we think you'll be very pleased with the Arrive. The Arrive will also appeal to those considering Windows Phone 7 for the first time.
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Click to collapse
Very positive. I was thinking of skipping this one and going with an Android for my on contract Sprint phone, but this review has pushed me back towards the Arrive. We will have to see what other reviews have to say.
Another review has rolled in:
A fairly positive review for the Arrive. Most of the negative things said are concerning the OS, and also the reviewers inability to understand how to use the OS.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/sprint-htc-arrive-review
PROS
+ Improved WP7 OS with copy and paste
+ Telenav included, lack of Sprint crapware
+ Terrific camera
+ Speakerphone
+ Spring-loaded tilt screen
+ Excellent battery life
+ Great keyboard layout
+ SRS enhancements
CONS
- Heavy
- Specs seem last-generation
- Strange method to remove battery cover
- Inaccessible 16GB microSD card
- Battery heats quickly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

actually, you can keep the screen flat down
just slide it out enough to reveal the whole keyboard

ima have to try that I myself ordered one already through wirefly for 80 adding a line. Ill have to see about the titled screen thing myself. Also any update on the Chevron unlock program, or any other one for the Arrive yet? Will the current one work for the Arrive.

i thought it was going to have the new milti tasking update

nanoware said:
i thought it was going to have the new milti tasking update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you think that? Nothing has come out from Microsoft or the rumor sites to even come remotely close to giving that impression.

Actually it was suggested that it would be released with nodo through microsoft... All in all it is much better than the European device but still not in the top WP7 devices I've used...
Edit: I didn't really read... Yeah, no multi-tasking update for a little while.

Tim.Smith said:
Why would you think that? Nothing has come out from Microsoft or the rumor sites to even come remotely close to giving that impression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe he is mistaking NODO for Mango. It does come with the NODO (copy + paste) update. It does not come with the Mango (multitasking) update.

Every review I've seen has been extremely positive. Only really knocked down two things:
Landscape isnt in all apps when the keyboard is out
Camera quality
Other than that, they all said it was a pretty solid device. Some said it was the best WP7 out now and others said it wasnt the best but was just as good as some Dell Venue Pro.
I just ordered this a few hours back and will be getting it on Thursday. Me excited. Me happy.

Another fairly positive review for the Arrive. Most of the negative things said are concerning the OS, and also the reviewers inability to understand how to use the OS.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/sprint-htc-arrive-review
PROS
+ Improved WP7 OS with copy and paste
+ Telenav included, lack of Sprint crapware
+ Terrific camera
+ Speakerphone
+ Spring-loaded tilt screen
+ Excellent battery life
+ Great keyboard layout
+ SRS enhancements
CONS
- Heavy
- Specs seem last-generation
- Strange method to remove battery cover
- Inaccessible 16GB microSD card
- Battery heats quickly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

tiny17 said:
Another fairly positive review for the Arrive. Most of the negative things said are concerning the OS, and also the reviewers inability to understand how to use the OS.
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/sprint-htc-arrive-review
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The majority of the time pocketnow and a few other popular tech blogs write off WP7 because they are dead set on android or iphone and if it doesn't have a row of 4x4 icons that are about as aesthetically pleasing as a school bus fire then they don't want it. I will tell you I own every US released WP7 device to date and this is certainly the best of HTC's devices. The build quality is solid, it doesn't have the feel that you're going to break the spring in the tilt mechanism like the European version had, and it's not too bad on the eyes though it could stand to be thinner. All in all it's a pretty good device. and certainly a great introduction to WP7. Remember, it's not about the specs. It's about how they use them.

z33dev33l said:
Remember, it's not about the specs. It's about how they use them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I don't understand why people can't see this. If gaming, and browser experience isn't any improved, then what is the point of having a dual core processor? I for one don't particularly care for faster processors, those will come in time, but I am more concerned about getting newer, more power efficient processors in these phones. So yeah, these have last years tech, but the OS is better utilizing it's hardware when compared to its competitors.

tiny17 said:
Exactly. I don't understand why people can't see this. If gaming, and browser experience isn't any improved, then what is the point of having a dual core processor? I for one don't particularly care for faster processors, those will come in time, but I am more concerned about getting newer, more power efficient processors in these phones. So yeah, these have last years tech, but the OS is better utilizing it's hardware when compared to its competitors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Preaching to the choir
No one seems to understand this but if an OS doesn't utilize their hardware properly then there's really no point in it being there. If WP7 can operate better than android on a single core let it be. You can mod and customize all you want but at the end of the day I want a phone that just works and WP7 does that better than any other OS. Does it have shortcomings? Most definitely but it's the OS that I feel has the most benefits that outweigh the shortcomings so until someone can top it I'm WP7 all the way. The Pro 7 is certainly worth it. Who knows, we may have better devices a year from now that blow these out of the water but for the time being it's my third favorite WP7 device and that's only because I'm hooked on the Venue Pro's screen and keyboard and the Focus' screen.

[Q] Thinking of buying one for my wife

Hi all,
I am researching a phone for my wife, as she needs a new one. She currently has an X10 mini pro, as she wanted a physical keyboard but guess what, after 8 months she concluded that she never uses it.
As the screen of the x10 mini pro is a bit small and the GPS unreliable, I was looking for something with a relatively good battery life. Not a huge screen, as she thinks my HD2 is huge for her, and able to withstand some punishment (she can be rough on her gadgets, hehe).
After looking hard I stumbled upon this phone. I have tried to read a bit about it, but almost every review focuses on Motorblur, and I don't think she will be using it as I will either install MIUI or CM7 on it as soon as she would get it.
I have some questions, which I was not able to get answer for.
1) Is the phone very big, my wife has relatively small hands (well normal for a woman), or is it just a hummer and not really suited for a woman?
2) How's the GPS, I have read some people complaining that sometimes it will not lock at all. Can you rely on it?
3) How smooth is it. Every review I see focuses on the stock ROM, and I would like to know how fluid is it with MIUI or CM7. Does it still shutter some times when moving from one screen to another, when looking at the reviews it shows some not very nice breaks? My HD2 is perfectly fluid with MIUI on NAND and I would like her to have the same experience as I have (or better).
4) Would you recommend this phone to someone today?
5) I have read something about the Defy+, should I wait for that?
Thank you all for the time to help me decide. It's a pity that in Brussels I was not able to find it in a store, so that I can have a better look at it and she could hold it in her hand.
Regards.

Johev said:
1) Is the phone very big, my wife has relatively small hands (well normal for a woman), or is it just a hummer and not really suited for a woman?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it rather small for having a 3.7" display. Compared to an iphone 4 it's not quite as thin, but shorter and lighter.
Here are the dimensions of both for comparison:
Motorola Defy:
DISPLAY SIZE: 3.7-inch, 480 x 854 pixels
WEIGHT: 118 grams
SIZE: 59 x 107 x 13.4 mm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Iphone 4:
DISPLAY SIZE: 3.5-inch, 960x640 pixels
WEIGHT: 137 grams (4.8 ounces)
SIZE: 58.6 x 115.2 x 9.3 mm
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Johev said:
2) How's the GPS, I have read some people complaining that sometimes it will not lock at all. Can you rely on it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've not had major troubles with it. I do flash a lot of different ROMs and some work better than others (faster satellite fix), and on some you need to tweak the gps.conf file for your region.
Johev said:
3) How smooth is it. Every review I see focuses on the stock ROM, and I would like to know how fluid is it with MIUI or CM7. Does it still shutter some times when moving from one screen to another, when looking at the reviews it shows some not very nice breaks? My HD2 is perfectly fluid with MIUI on NAND and I would like her to have the same experience as I have (or better).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is perfectly fluid. However, if you are using ROMs and modding the phone these all depend on your overclock settings, the launcher you are using and how many processes are running / widets, etc ..
I have found that with a bit of fiddeling you can easily get it to run perfect, if it doesn't from scratch. I have mine at the following vsel settings (i know they are quite high, but I run a lot of apps in the background (trillian / skype / poweramp) and I have found them to be perfect for my phone and setup. Too lower vsel had some of my apps FC.
34 -> 350
44 -> 600
60 -> 1100
Johev said:
4) Would you recommend this phone to someone today?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly, yes! It's cheap but doesn't have a cheapish feel to it even if it is all made out of plastic & rubber. Not compared to similar and more expensive Samsung products from my experience anyway)
Johev said:
5) I have read something about the Defy+, should I wait for that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I wouldn't, because when it is launched next month it should hopefully drive the price of the 'old' device down and it's not that much different of a phone - from the specs i've read anyway. You can easily overclock the defy from 800 to 1000 making it just as powerful as the 'new' chip.
If you can save 100 euros on the updated model, it would be well worth it.

1) I dont think it is big..i think it is just perfect..not too big, not too small..area hasnt been wasted around the corner..so it kinda looks small even though it is 3.7"
2) GPS is fine..no problem at all..well in some CM7 nightlies had some GPS problem, later they were fixed in next nightly..so chill it works fine...
3) in CM7 it is smooth like a butter..no hanging and all..dunno about MIUI as i never installed it..but in stock rom i had experienced lil hanging and all..wasnt that smooth..
4)Definitely i would recommend defy to u..it is a nice mid ranged android phone, which can withstand fall and water and dust..nicely rugged phone..nice specs also which makes it a perfect smartphone in affordable price
5) Nah! defy+ might sound the upgraded version of defy..but its not! its spec is lower than defy..well except frequency but defy's cpu frequecy was underclocked to 800Mhz, it can go upto 1.3Ghz without any problem..rest all specs are same..
Overall Defy is a pretty nice phone

This is what I like about this community, every time I have doubts I can come here and receive very good input from actual owners.
Thank you both so much for your help. I just want to say that I was not able to give a thank to both of you as we have a daily limit and as tecjam was the first and had gone all that trouble I gave it to him. I hope you don't mind arpith.fbi, you're response was also very informative, and I will take both of them into consideration.
I also think that 100 euros is worth saving for a future upgrade, and if you think it's not very big, it will be a nice upgrade from the X10 mini pro that she has atm.
Battery wise I've read that it is not bad, there is a thread here where people claim some nice battery life, and as she almost never uses the internet on her phone, just calls, sms, gps and occasional Angry Birds I am hoping for 3-4 days of stamina.
Once again thank you for the input, and if any female (woman) want's to let me know what her perspective is about the phone, it would be greatly appreciated.

I bought my wife one to replace a ZTE Blade, she thought i was stupid as there was nothing wrong with her blade. Once she got used to the Defy she loves it to bits and couldnt go back to the blade, if she is happy with it then anyone should be ROFL

I guess is better to wait if this defy+ really exists...

it does exist..its on many online stores in europe

I'll probably wait just a bit more for the defy+ to come out, as the price of this phone should go down even more, and then I'll buy it .
Why rush it if the other phone still works. The main problem that I have with the mini pro is the GPS and the low resolution which makes some Apps not work well and miss some options.
Hope this one will fit the bill.

My daughter has a x10 mini pro and the defy is a million year in front of it.

[Q] Buyer's remorse??

Hey Everyone,
Curious to know if anyone has buyers remorse over making the switch to this device from another device?
Does anyone ever run the phone within the confines of the original OS?
What is your real world expectation 6 months from now with this device?
How long do you plan on keeping the device?
What is the most important everyday feature that is a keeper & deal breaker?
How has the form factor impacted the way you look at phones in terms of the screen size vs the size of the device?
Also as a side note. Have anyone ever worked with a fully calibrated monitor like a Eizo or a Ben-Q?
Or for industry folks, any panasonic or Sony broadcast monitors? The correlation being those monitors have the same look at least to my eyes.
Finally have you ever acquired a device that you did not initially have buyers remorse?
I have the phone myself. I am just curious to what the community at large is vibing at the moment...

I'm happy with the G3 especially the screen and camera. I jumped to the G3 from the LG Flex. Nice that the T-Mobile G3 comes with a unlocked bootloader and I'm sure development will be good with time. I'm a phone junkie and usually just keeps phones around 6 months. Jump helps with that.

Sometimes I DO regret getting this phone. It's a good phone, but it's just not the earth shattering, mega phone I was hoping for. Even rooted with no bloatware, i still experience lag, freezes, and subpar battery life. Also, maybe it's just my device, but I'm really not impressed with the screen at all. The blacks seem way too "milky", and i really can't see the difference between this and a 1080 screen, except for when I look at certain photos or videos.
The camera is nice for a 13mp shooter. That's really the main positive.

I returned it after 2 weeks. To many performance trade offs for the QHD screen. Once the more powerful phones hit later this year (Shamue and Note 4) the G3 will struggle. Although that's why the Prime is being released.

Curious what other 5.5" screen are you comparing it to?

Me too returned it after 2 weeks, and the reason was just the screen, everything else is great.
First, couldn't stand this yellowish tinted screen and the poor blacks, and second because of the lag/stuttering

Was it lagging in dual window mode or playing a game?
Or was it on a productivity App?
Or was it simple browsing?
Or transitioning from on app to the next?

As I never used dual window, I can't say if it lags there...
Most annoying was the stuttering to me, and this happened nearly everywhere, transitions, scrolling...
But Lg will fix it sooner or later I guess.
As I wrote, the main reason for returning it was the display...

grifter9931 said:
Was it lagging in dual window mode or playing a game?
Or was it on a productivity App?
Or was it simple browsing?
Or transitioning from on app to the next?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people have the G3 lag some don't. I don't notice any lag. From what I read on here the lag is simple fix by changing the launcher and or a setting or two. Removing bloat helps too.
My screen is bight and battery is good enough for me. I guess I was lucky and got a good G3.
As far as the G3 being a "wow" phone it's not but I think those days are over for phones. I was going to wait for the Note 4 but after seeing the leaked pictures I think I'm glad I didn't.

Got the D855 32GB..
All I can say is, I'm so glad i didn't put much attention on others negative opinion about the device...
We all knew it come's with QHD display before buying it, I don't get why too many about it...
As of me, I'm very happy with it... Coming from nexus 7 2013, my criteria for next device was, at least 3gb ram, 32gb internal storage with external (a 64gb internal w/o ext is also okay)... Just saying by the way. =)
There are always those people who have remorse after buying a device by the way..

I've come from an iPhone 4S!:silly:
I bought the International version with 32GB and the 3GB ram (F400S) and I've not found it laggy at all, even with the all the Korean bloatware apps on there.
The main reason I purchased it was because I was so impressed with the LG G2 that I bought for my wife a few months back, just loved the design and screen.
Hopefully when the "Ints" get their bootloader unlocked and we can nandroid backup and get some cool roms (come on PardusHD!) then it should run even smoother.
The battery life isn't as good as I expected, but then I'm usually charging using a USB port (500mAH) so it will take ages and I've hardly ever had it at 100%:laugh: but it's way better than the iPhone 4s battery life.
I'm a little disappointed in the screen, I don't find it as "bright" as the Samsung S ones, I've just taken off the auto brightness as I found it too low, in any light environment and currently set it at 85%.
Overall design is nice and it's very light. I'm not a fan of big screens, but then that's the way they're all heading nowadays....

flapmio said:
I've just taken off the auto brightness as I found it too low, in any light environment and currently set it at 85%
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sole reason of fast battery discharge

I don't have this phone yet but I know the 32g has 3 gigs of ram and the 16 has 2 gigs. Might be why some suffer lag. Make sure when comparing you specify which version folks

Had the 32GB/3GB version

Fir3blade said:
Had the 32GB/3GB version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Fir3blade,
Can you link a video of the stuttering if you know one?

Sorry didn't make myself a video, saw the stuttering in some video reviews, but I don't remember them, as I watched quite lots, sorry ☺

grifter9931 said:
Hi Fir3blade,
Can you link a video of the stuttering if you know one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's an example of the stutter in games. At 8min 20.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paMb_cgVkug

I don't have buyer's remorse exactly, but I'm not thrilled with the device in every way. I like the camera a lot better than the one on my HTC One M7, and the G3 battery life is better than my M7. That's really it. My M7 felt snappier in every way, and the screen looked better. Once the Nexus 6 comes out I will likely sell the G3 and pick one up. I just can't stand all this locked bootloader nonsense and the lack of development that occurs as a consequence.

Batfink33 said:
Here's an example of the stutter in games. At 8min 20.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=paMb_cgVkug
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TY I am trying to recreate the stutter as we speak... Interesting stuff

Fir3blade said:
Sorry didn't make myself a video, saw the stuttering in some video reviews, but I don't remember them, as I watched quite lots, sorry ☺
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I noticed a few myself. I wonder why the reviewers did not mention the stuttering.....