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What can us mere mortals do to help get root on the Incredible? Is there something that we should be on the watch for? Many of us, although not devs, have varying degrees of sophistication with this technology.
Check refurbished Inc's coming back with special manufacturer only software?
Watch for certain odd behavior on Inc?
Distributed computing crunch of some kind?
Release the email that was sent to me from an insider at VZW on how to root the Incredible (JUST KIDDING! They snail mailed it to me).
Seriously, I don't know what we can do as a group, but I for one would love to help.
The vetting process among the developer community here must be extremely close to the vest.
I have more than 30 years' experience developing applications, including business apps, middleware, communitcations, web, and mobile devices.
I offered a couple devs a couple of possible leads I found while snooping around. And the offers were either ignored or dismissed out of hand. Because I wasn't "anointed", I guess.
paulhoop said:
What can us mere mortals do to help get root on the Incredible? Is there something that we should be on the watch for? Many of us, although not devs, have varying degrees of sophistication with this technology.
Check refurbished Inc's coming back with special manufacturer only software?
Watch for certain odd behavior on Inc?
Distributed computing crunch of some kind?
Release the email that was sent to me from an insider at VZW on how to root the Incredible (JUST KIDDING! They snail mailed it to me).
Seriously, I don't know what we can do as a group, but I for one would love to help.
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Click to collapse
Patience is all us "comoners" can have to help. I'm afraid that there's really nothing in your list that will help.
Ed Zachary said:
The vetting process among the developer community here must be extremely close to the vest.
I have more than 30 years' experience developing applications, including business apps, middleware, communitcations, web, and mobile devices.
I offered a couple devs a couple of possible leads I found while snooping around. And the offers were either ignored or dismissed out of hand. Because I wasn't "anointed", I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Newer Kernel Exploits
Status: ???
2) Zip File Fuzzing (Bootloader overflow)
Status: ???
3) Root Level things running
Status: ???
4) Mount internal storage and modify OS
Status: ???
5) Trick from the Desire
Status: We need a signed ROM from HTC to get that to work.
6) Let's put an image on the SD and see if it will boot that
Status: No. It doesn't work
7) Trick from the Evo
Status: No. The Evo depends on some specific stuff that Incredible doesn't have.
8) Fastboot oem unlock
Status: Everyone and their mom tried, doesn't work
9) Flash a new image
Status: No, you and what root?
10)Shoryuken ptrace() exploit.
Status: No. It's been patched.
All of these and more have been tried multiple times by multiple people. If any of your suggestions are on this list then that is why they were ignored. If you truly think you may have a method with any validity that may get us somewhere then irc.freenode.net, ##incredibleroot is where you'll find some of the unrevoked team and some other talented people. Please don't join and ask about root or progress every 1/2 hour either cause that gets old quick.
You got to understand how locked down these devices are...if we don't get a leaked root rom like the Desire and the Evo (Toast's method, not unrevoked which relies on Sprint native software so it won't work on our inc's) root may take a VERY long time.
SoCalMiles said:
there's really nothing in your list that will help.
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Click to collapse
So not even the leaked mail? haha.
Really my list was just a noob's attempt to ask, didn't really think that any of them were legitimate. I was looking for direction from more powerful beings in what to watch for. i.e. the leaked ROM you mention.
Felt like I needed to offer to help. I hate not being able to contribute.
Do folks think that this will be a cat and mouse game with HTC/VZW kinda like with the EVO and a patch being issued so quickly to close the first root method?
Ed Zachary said:
The vetting process among the developer community here must be extremely close to the vest.
I have more than 30 years' experience developing applications, including business apps, middleware, communitcations, web, and mobile devices.
I offered a couple devs a couple of possible leads I found while snooping around. And the offers were either ignored or dismissed out of hand. Because I wasn't "anointed", I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure that wasn't the case (well, depending on who it was... heh). A lot of methods have been tried already and the people coming up and trying new ideas really know the inner-working of the Android platform and how it interacts with the hardware. I could (and have =p) come up with some high-end/low-resource techniques for specific hardware (last worked with the iPhone 3GS/iPod Touch 3rd gen) including AA (almost got up to 4x =p), bit/bump mapping, dynamic lighting and other very boring things to see in code but are pretty looking when used.
Now if someone asked me tomorrow to root those 2 devices, I wouldn't have a clue where to begin. Now your situation may be different, if so don't be discouraged and start posting your ideas here. Now they may still be outright dismissed or ignored, but at least you will get credit for coming up with good ideas =).
SoCalMiles said:
You got to understand how locked down these devices are...if we don't get a leaked root rom like the Desire and the Evo (Toast's method, not unrevoked which relies on Sprint native software so it won't work on our inc's) root may take a VERY long time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been wondering about this. Is it possible for a device to be created that is unrootable? Not saying the incredible is but I wonder if it will get to that point or is it like computers where there is no 100% secure computer system and there's always a way to get inside.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
A smartphone is just a compact computer... I mean the Android OS is even a modified version of Linux, so there will always be ways/methods to crack the device somehow. However without insider information/data (and even sometimes with such data) we are all left on the outside, trying to find a way in that can be easily repeated among a vast userbase.
Idk how many of you had an Eris but the only reason the Eris got root is because some guy claimed to work for HTC and he posted a 2.1 Rom on xda, who knows the incredible may be the same way.
most of us want root but have no idea how to achieve it. I think our best chance is some inside help
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
I want to know how the hell the evo was rooted before it was even released, yet we are still waiting. It would seem us incredible owners are getting shafted. Now all I see is evo evo evo.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Close thread?
Since the Incredible has been rooted; perhaps this thread should be closed.
http://unrevoked.com/rootwiki/doku.php?id=public:adb_in_recovery
I've been enjoying the custom ROM features for a short while, but when I came across the HTC's desicion to put shipped-roms down, I had to make a statement.
I've contacted HTC about the matter, and the answer I got did not please me, at all. They just ignored the fact that the success(and their money) comes greatly because of the open Android platform, and the eager programmer communities contributing to it. Which is the reason and soul, to promise, for the platform, to get success and long life, in the future.
Their claim stands on the corporate ignorance on that fact I mentioned. As the original binaries are not to be used in any other way, than to give a rescue route, if some customization route takes the wrong turn, and ends in bricking the device. In those occations we could take the step back and restore the original image, into a device, and keep hunting the bug's in custom cooked roms.
So I hope that more people will get in touch directly to HTC, and make them understand that keeping the binaries out in the open, does not steal any money or intellectual property from them, in any way, but is solely to keep supporting the device sales, and the life of the platform as a whole.
Yours truly
sawe
P.S. Sorry for the bad language, I'm not a native english speaker.
I personally think that response is reasonable. They can't guarantee that anything won't go wrong with ROMs other than their own and therefore won't support it.
They don't however try to actively stop it which is why there is such a great community of developers.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
They don't actively stop modding. They just want to keep their own ROMs safe.
I think they are not reasonable on the matter. Reasonable would be if they give us the possibility to download released ROMs from their web servers.
By taking that possibility away, they deny us to revert back to official version, and by that put a much bigger risk in testing the new mods.
No intellectual property is at risk because official packages are .exe binary files, so no way to missuse them, only ability to flash the device back to factory defaults.
Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?
badgerarc said:
Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?
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Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.
this thread is aload of crap, htc have the right to take whatever steps they feel are justified to protect there work, if you dont like it dont buy htc simple, but we all know people will buy htc because whatever you think of them they are that best smartphone manufacturer
HTC have more rights than they actually use, agreed this thread is pointless.
Xda could drown under 2 meters of dung and htc wouldn't even notice, or maybe they would just be happy to do away with all the idiots bogging down customer support with questions about froyo and then moaning it's not ready a split second after the android team released it.
not sent from an iToilet
saweboy said:
Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave
foxmeister said:
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave
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Click to collapse
thats true ive done that using ms process manager when i wanted the stock htc bootanimation.zip
I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.
SimonCraddock said:
I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sincerely hope they don't, since 90% of the supposed beta testing here is unscientific at best and plain wrong at worst
not sent from an iToilet
I think HTC would have much more sophisticated testing methods than relying on comments like....
ZOMG!!! THE CAMERA APP FORCE CLOSES, THIS ROM SUX!!!
HTC have every right to protect their intellectual property. In fact they're being very nice with the modding community. If they full exercised their rights then there roms including HTC Sense would be illegal.
I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251
I assume its due to new apps such as: netflix, hulu, move rentals and other apps that require a lockdown. I don't think HTC would like to see their hard work (HTC Sense) on other devices lowering the need for upgrades: example, the two Incredibles if you install sense 2.0 or skyraider 4.0 the need for Incredible 2 lowers quite a bit. I plan on jumping on Incredible 2 just because of its design. It is exactly what I wanted in the first Incredible. I'm all up more for unlocked HTC phones
I sent them an email and got the following response...
Thank you for your feedback regarding the Incredible 2. Unfortunately I do not have information about whether the bootloader is locked or how it can be customized to allow you to install a custom ROM. Because we focus on supporting the software included on the device and assisting users with free technical support we are only able to support the aspects of the device as they are developed by ourselves and your carrier, in this case Verizon.
That said, however, we do value your feedback. You will see an invitation to provide our company with recorded, documented feedback in the signature of my email to you. The ratings at the top are your opportunity to rate my response to you and then there is a comment section that allows you to make your opinions known to HTC itself, rather than to simply the representative who corresponds with you. I would encourage you to submit your opinion there as well, even if you just copy and paste most of your initial email to us.
We track this feedback and it does make a difference in our product decisions. If it turns out the bootloader is locked down with a secure key or other method, your feedback using the survey system may convince the powers that be to change this in a future update.
In regard to your inquiry regarding an API for the Sense interface, any application or widget targeted for Android should work in HTC Sense, so you should be able to use the Android APIs for your development purposes and this will also allow your application to work on phones that do not run HTC Sense, such as competitor phones or even some of our devices like the G2. That said, there are additional resources where you can get information about developing on HTC and Android devices:
http://www.htcmobilitynow.com/ This is a site that allows you to request to partner with us for application development or suggest a business opportunity, if you would like.
http://developer.htc.com/ This URL contains kernel and GPL-covered source code for our devices. Source is generally published within 90 days of a product release but it normally does not take that long.
To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Sincerely,
Douglas
HTC
Want to see what others are saying? Have a question to ask other HTC fans?
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Click to collapse
Pretty much just seems like a regular copy paste brush off response.
HTC has some very good reasons for locking devices down, and I don't blame them at all. Their setup is very nice for the average consumer.
I support OEMs locking their hardware in general, however I also support (and am active in) unlocking them. What they really need to do is find a workable solution, like enabling oem unlock.
tylerch said:
I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have seen a lot of boilerplate brush-offs in my life, and while that HTC rep wasn't able to help get anything done in some concrete form, the letter was not based on a template. Sure they were 2 or 3 paragraphs that sounded stock, but I am guessing (and was very surprised considering what I have seen from HTC on other occasions) that the letter took a longer than average amount of time to write... I do not think it would not be considered a brush off.
And it makes sense... If there is any industry right now which is being carefully watched because of the world's acknowledged impact of it on an individual's daily life, both professional and personal, it is mobile communication and the development thereof. There is an extraordinary amount of money to be made and lost here. HTC is a newcomer through good fortune and I doubt anyone expected them to be sitting next to motorola, samsung, LG, etc. 3 years ago. In this age of social media where 4000 people complaining on a Facebook page can change a corporate policy, HTC is not ignoring any group. And not one with the power we have.
Look at T-Mobile, while I still think their customer device is mediocre, as third place carrier, I have noticed a distinct catering to the "enthusiast" segment of android. Now this doesn't mean they are going to have every phone released sporting a wide open OS like the G1, but their phones are relatively easy to root (wake up Motorola!), and the caliber of their phones (design, cutting edge technology like dual core) is far and away better than the other carriers out there.
I am starting to ramble, but my point is this is a crucial time in an area that we happen to be a big part of. If you don't think the manufacturers or the carriers are keeping a close eye on this board's membership, or the number of people served by CM7, your wrong.. We have the power to turn the carriers and the manufacturers future business plans on their ear. (With early attempts at a "kitchen"... man, that had to make them tremble a bit.) And this enthusiast market is only going to snowball, even if not for true enthusiasts, then for all the people that just want someone to root and re-theme their phone. Trust me, they care.
EDIT: Bottom line, the OP is making a smart suggestion.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App
I certainly expected them to be sitting were they are 3 years ago. 5 years ago, no. Hadn't heard of them yet.
Also that was not a stock brush off. Everytime I've contacted HTC I've been happily surprised with their answers. She told you what we need to do to change it so let's do it!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
I agree with jcase that manufacturers and service providers have legitimate reasons for the locking of their respective devices.
One being the protection of their oem software as stated. Another is fraudulent device returns for devices bricked or otherwise rendered inoperable by something done at root level. Lastly the hot topic of rooted tethering and wifi hot spot which are paid services.
So that being said set aside your anger and look at it from their point of view.
I am a rooted user who takes full advantage of my devices potential. I hope that there is a solution in the not too distant future that will both protect the manufacturers and providers interests yet give us the option to modify our devices as we see fit.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Are you guys serious? HTC has been around for ages (1997) theyre one of the pioneers in pda/smartphone and touchscreen technology. First windows pda, first windows based phone, first 3g cdma smartphone, first android smartphone and first 4g smartphone. They've been innovative when LG and Moto thought the razr and shine were bleeding edge lol. I had NO doubt they would have a seat upon high. ;-)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk
efaden said:
Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC already does this, but many of us are dicking with the bootloader, which handles this. Once you mess with the bootloader, the possibility of bricking is very real.
Locking down the bootloader was Verizon's idea. Not HTC's. They would rather sell them unlocked. Only the carrier wants them locked. Just think about it and you will see why the manufacturers are forced to do so. There is no point contacting HTC. Please send such emails to Verizon. Please do bug HTC to sell unlocked boot loader devices on the net.
Sent from my thunderbolt
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.
efaden said:
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.
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Click to collapse
the incS has XTC support, and touchpro hooked raskal up with his verizon inc2 so lets pray we get support for the inc2!!!
jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the difficulties with rooting has not been carrier specific. In fact, the troubles started with the myTouch Slide on T-Mobile then the G2 on T-Mobile and now the Incredible 2 on Verizon, the Evo Shift on Sprint, and the Thunderbolt on Verizon.
Seems like this is more HTC than the specific carrier to me.
This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.
finitybeyond said:
This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just about to post this! I hope they let us unlock the bootloaders.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk
And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless
LowFire82 said:
And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless
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Click to collapse
Found this on the HTC Facebook page..
"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC
Hell yea I was just about to post that as well! I hope this means they will provide means to unlock currently locked phones.
I am a big android fan and can accomplish most of what people report they can accomplish with their phones provided they can post a decent how-to, but this is my second semester in college for computer science and i am starting to get a base of understanding and i want to start to be more active in the community so now that you know that i know NOTHING but can flash roms and such i want to get the ATT Note, it will be subsidized and under warranty and the size doesnt bother me BUT coming from the atrix i am frustrated that it seems everybody has EVERYTHING before i had it, so i would love to get the Nexus to ensure being up to date, Can you nexus people tell me if it is imperative for me to be a nexus owner to learn the workings of my green robot or am chasing the best gear without yet being able to utilize any of it yet. I presume you all enjoy the nexus and this forum will be a bit biased but really my question is, if i am not a real developer but a tinker will the nexus be a help or should i just get hardware i enjoy and hope the developer community will be strong for that model? Thanks for reading such a long post and for your thoughtful replies
If you are interested in Android why are you worried about devices? Android OS is the same on all, like Gingerbread, ICS etc. I don't know why you are concerned about what device to choose. Sorry if I am misunderstanding your question.
well, that is part of the question, should i care so much about the device?
i am asking in the nexus forum because if the device mattered then the nexus i presume would be the one to get, i just didnt know if things were at all simpler on the nexus,
the droid razr maxx now has a developer edition with an unlocked bootloader, so apparently there is a razr that is exactly the same as another razr except it is better developing on so i guess not all phones are the same that run android.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/29/motorola-announces-razr-developer-edition-with-unlocked-bootload/
I have a used/rooted HTC Evo i'd happily sell you, if you simply need a wifi capable android device to code on
im looking to buy a new phone and wonder if i should consider the nexus to be the best phone to buy and be able to learn on or if any phone that has an unlocked bootloader will suffice, i have an unlocked atrix which does fine but i want some new tech!
Am I understanding you correctly, you want to know which phone you should get because you want to start developing apps for Android?
If this is the case then the Nexus might be a better choice than the Note as it's sort of a reference device, and a lot of the phones coming out will have the same sort of features. With the Note you'd be testing your apps on a really large screen and you might find later on that they don't work as well on other devices.
I'm no expert or anything, I could be completely wrong!
this is exactly the type of thing im looking to hear, i think my preference is the note but if the community in general feels similar to this i think i will get the nex
Bump? I'm so curious on your thoughts xda
Sent from my MB860 using xda premium
You can program and test with your Aitrix too. Honestly, you don't need a Galaxy Nexus or any Nexus device to do any Android app. development. If you really get into development, you might want one, so you can test your apps on Ice Cream Sandwich.
If you're in a hurry to get your hands dirty, might as well learn using the latest API, and as such there are only 2 devices with officially released ICS, the galaxy nexus and the nexus s. Sure, some devices have unofficial ports and leaks, but if you encounter a problem, you can't be too sure if it's the OS's fault or the app. Also, it would probably be a good idea to hold on to your Atrix, so you can test your app with gingerbread as well.
Well there are various points to consider...
Obviously it's useful to have a phone the can run ICS to develop with the newest API. But as almost nobody has ICS on the phone, for now it might be more interesting to test with an android version people really have in masses. Then again, this is nothing nexus specific.
The support of the galaxy nexus from the android open source project (AOSP) is the main feature of the google nexus phone. But for software development this only really gets interesting if you start to move from developing normal applications that everyone (without root) can install from the market to working on custom ROMs that have code changes in the core (google) android code. Or if you need debugging tools not available on normal end-user builds (engineering builds seem to have lots of more development features, debug symbols for native (JNI) libraries, etc).
If you just start out coding it's likely that you don't really end up doing that very soon (but i know someone who started working on really low-level x86 assembly just after learning to code, so YMMV).
And then again many of these features will be available also if CyanogenMod is available on the phone you're using (as they make the AOSP code work somehow on their devices).
And you should look at the hardware features too: e.g. Galaxy Nexus: NFC; Note: drawing tablet style digitizer.
I think there's no simple and fast answer, and i'm doing any really low-level android work to really know what's needed.
It really depends on what you intend to do and how much you can work around various roadblocks on the way.
Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
****
My contribution.
I made it about 60% through and I still don't see s-off released. ;p
acer73 said:
Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
****
My contribution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk
Done
I would share it but its got to many bad grammatical mistakes that makes its a hard read plus doesn't specifically request things like S-OFF. The sentiment surely is right though.