Develop Bugs

HTC opposing modding, but sure as hell they are willing to take your money!!!

I've been enjoying the custom ROM features for a short while, but when I came across the HTC's desicion to put shipped-roms down, I had to make a statement.
I've contacted HTC about the matter, and the answer I got did not please me, at all. They just ignored the fact that the success(and their money) comes greatly because of the open Android platform, and the eager programmer communities contributing to it. Which is the reason and soul, to promise, for the platform, to get success and long life, in the future.
Their claim stands on the corporate ignorance on that fact I mentioned. As the original binaries are not to be used in any other way, than to give a rescue route, if some customization route takes the wrong turn, and ends in bricking the device. In those occations we could take the step back and restore the original image, into a device, and keep hunting the bug's in custom cooked roms.
So I hope that more people will get in touch directly to HTC, and make them understand that keeping the binaries out in the open, does not steal any money or intellectual property from them, in any way, but is solely to keep supporting the device sales, and the life of the platform as a whole.
Yours truly
sawe
P.S. Sorry for the bad language, I'm not a native english speaker.

I personally think that response is reasonable. They can't guarantee that anything won't go wrong with ROMs other than their own and therefore won't support it.
They don't however try to actively stop it which is why there is such a great community of developers.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

They don't actively stop modding. They just want to keep their own ROMs safe.

I think they are not reasonable on the matter. Reasonable would be if they give us the possibility to download released ROMs from their web servers.
By taking that possibility away, they deny us to revert back to official version, and by that put a much bigger risk in testing the new mods.
No intellectual property is at risk because official packages are .exe binary files, so no way to missuse them, only ability to flash the device back to factory defaults.

Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?

badgerarc said:
Aren't they taking issue with the fact that the HTC Roms include their copyrighted Intellectual property? THe sense UI and the other apps the HTC develop to go with their devices for example? I don't agree with the HTC tactic here, but just wondering if thats their whole issue?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.

this thread is aload of crap, htc have the right to take whatever steps they feel are justified to protect there work, if you dont like it dont buy htc simple, but we all know people will buy htc because whatever you think of them they are that best smartphone manufacturer

HTC have more rights than they actually use, agreed this thread is pointless.
Xda could drown under 2 meters of dung and htc wouldn't even notice, or maybe they would just be happy to do away with all the idiots bogging down customer support with questions about froyo and then moaning it's not ready a split second after the android team released it.
not sent from an iToilet

saweboy said:
Those binary coded .exe files are only usable to flash the device they are ment. You cannot use the file in any other way.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave

foxmeister said:
Sorry, but that just isn't true!
When you run an HTC Android RUU it extracts a file called ROM.ZIP into a temp directory before it starts to flash the phone and you can pull this out and do pretty much whatever you like with it.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats true ive done that using ms process manager when i wanted the stock htc bootanimation.zip

I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.

SimonCraddock said:
I wonder how much information HTC have syphoned off these and other similar forums without acknowledging it? Essentially we are provided a beta testing service for them at no risk to themselves. They could just look through all the problems folks are reporting with various ROMs and RADIO files and use that info to make them stable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I sincerely hope they don't, since 90% of the supposed beta testing here is unscientific at best and plain wrong at worst
not sent from an iToilet

I think HTC would have much more sophisticated testing methods than relying on comments like....
ZOMG!!! THE CAMERA APP FORCE CLOSES, THIS ROM SUX!!!
HTC have every right to protect their intellectual property. In fact they're being very nice with the modding community. If they full exercised their rights then there roms including HTC Sense would be illegal.

Bootloaders, Rooting, Manufacturers, and Carriers (long read)

Original Article
Background​I don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls​
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls​
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road​
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thoughts? Is there a future for Rooting?

Wtf?

Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Hey man, I can honestly say that I think this is complete bull! Haha. Why would they take away the boot loader?? Thats aa main trouble shoot tool in its self, and if this does happen. I highly doubt that it would stop root. We would be able to get past it.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App

Read the thread....even if they do get around it there will be back ups that will kill service to any rooted device. Idk if this is true but its interesting
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

We have wayy too many smart devs to let this happen. I'm not worried

This is a rumor from ONE source. People have been getting all upset over this but until anything actually happens, it's just that. A rumor.
Besides, if Verizon is worried about people tethering for free, it would make more sense to charge for data on a tiered level like they're probably going to start doing anyway.

Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)

byrong, thank you!

byrong said:
Wild rumors and speculation based on forum posts, which link back to other forum posts, which link to other forums.... which eventually circle back to one guy who doesn't provide any back-up for his claims.
The original panic started here:
http://www.mydroidworld.com/forums/...otloaders-rooting-manufacturers-carriers.html
Can we please restore some sanity to the community? Will people please stop panicking based on a bunch of "I heard..." and vague references to unnamed, unconfirmed sources?
Am I saying that this is impossible? No. But as intelligent adults, should we not demand a higher burden of proof than vague references to "multiple channels"? If there really are multiple channels that can confirm this vast conspiracy, why hasn't it broken as a reputable news story anywhere? One dude cracked the case, but no one else can corroborate it or cite anything?
This is claimed to be an effort to crack down on unauthorized tethering. If that is the goal, what seems more likely?
1. The claim that "Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids."
or
2. Phone companies will just start phasing out unlimited data in favor of tiered plans
Given that we're already seeing #2 happen on some carriers, I'll put my money on that.
Of course, people love David and Goliath stories, so I doubt these rumors will ever die, just like the Placebo Throttle Remover will never die.
Yea, maybe all the phone companies have gotten together and are developing super secret methods of tracking us down. And maybe the Reverse Vampires are involved. And the Masons.
The original panic rumor claims that these things are already happening. For example:
"More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program."
Sooooooo..... if it's already happening, there should be some evidence, right?
P.S. - I have heard from multiple sources that XDA is going to start tracking members by injecting code into any attachment that is placed on this forum. I've confirmed it through multiple channels. No, I can't be any more specific than that: I hope you understand. After all, this is top secret information... I can't just go tossing it around. It's a vast conspiracy, but they've managed to keep it completely bottled up.
Don't believe me!?!? Well, just wait until it happens to youuuuuuuu!!!!! (Scary music)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Click to collapse
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

donnyp1 said:
I believe a thread about this was discussed a few weeks ago and closed. I dont believe it will happen snyways
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't necesarilly believe it will happen but is it plausible? yes....You can't deny that major carriers and development teams have more knowledge, experience, and capability then ANY developer on xda. Look at the past. Apple actually brought out a lawsuit trying to keep people from jailbreaking devices. So while we may all sit around and laugh at the idea and while it is just a bunch of hear say at this point, it is definitely plausible. And i do agree that it may just be easier to do tiered data plans, but then that kind of screws over verizon's customers who actually pay for tether. So you can kind of understand why they wouldn't want to continue to move on that route. Both options are viable and neither of them appears to be any sort of threat right now. As stated above, right now it's just a bunch of threads linking back to other threads linking back to other threads. And I don't know how much there is to believe about it but none the less it definitely could happen.... But hopefully nothing will happen....I mean come on manufacturers hardly keep their devices up to date...2.3 has already been dropped on how many devices and we're still waiting for it. People are on to sense 3.0 and we still have 1.0 on our stock rom. If they decide to kill the independent dev community then they better start dropping crazy updates with extremely customizable roms. It just seems like too much work that would ultimately end in manufacturers and providers losing money. Sooo ya. probs not gonna happen

If people didnt abuse tether, it wouldnt be an issue. So much free wifi, i cant think of last time i tethered. I also actually pay for internet at hone, yet i know several who tether for home internet.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App

Verizon would be foolish to do this. People are attracted to their service due to the freedom of android...

elixir911911 said:
Damn dude.....just trying to put some discussion into this topic. Ouch. I understand and preface this with not trying to start another I heard thread.....I wasn't trying to instill panic in anyone. No need to write up an essay and a half of flame. Simply giving some discussion topic.
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a flame, it's just the truth... There really is not a whole lot to be concerned about. It's out of our control so whatever happens happens, we'll have to deal with it when it shows up, IF it shows up. But why be so concerned about it?
Having said that, as far as rooting goes, they SHOULD embrace developers and allow us to use our roms and stuff legally... but I think that there is stuff set in writing and signatures that are still in effect for the time being. I see them never allowing us to root, but compromising by letting us set our own defaults and not having to use their proprietary carrier BS eventually. Whatever we make our phones into (right now) creates a market, and where there's a market there's money. We'll either have the perfect phone or the option to make the perfect phone, just like we can buy the perfect PC or make the perfect PC. Well, at least as far as software goes.
I personally believe we'll ultimately get what we want to the point where rooting is useless as far as ordinary everyday users go. But right now we don't know what this whole smartphone craze is or what its gonna be when it finally plateaus, and neither do the manufacturers & carriers so they can't exactly crack whips on our backs for doing all of this yet.
Besides, the hackers that make these roms make the phones better. They turn us into brand and carrier loyalists. The Optimus, Galaxy S, Xperia, HTC & Droids all have followings for different reasons, and the developers are the most rabid and loyal of them all. They might not NEED us, but we're still pretty freaking important.

elixir911911 said:
Alright guys not trying to start another "I heard" thread but I read some upsetting news today.....it seems the community is going to begin to dwindle.....maybe not for us specifically but more for some of the newer phone models... I took some interest in the Droid bionic today and so I decided to go look at the thread for it.....under the general topic there was a discussion about Verizon beginning to crack down on root users. This is due mainly to the theft of services (WiFi tether). This crack down will mean Verizon completely locking down the bootloader and making phones unrootable. Theyre even going as far as to back this up with network locks. If your new device isn't verified on there network with an unrooted Rom, they will potentially lock down your service so you can't use your phone for anything essentially. Now as of right now it appears that they are focused mainly on new devices and they aren't so worried with us. I can completely understand why they would want to stop the theft of this service but at the same time this news comes as a bummer. How long will it be until Verizon locks down root altogether? And this isn't even just Verizon but rather a joint venture across multiple carriers. I don't know how to link but go look it up if youre interested guys. It's under Droid bionic general. I don't know how to take this information....but anyways let's get some input rolling here. What do you guys think about this? And better yet anyone think its gonna affect our devices at some point?
Sent from my Incredible using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Okay I'm going to be as nice as I can about this. It's not true. We've had so many threads about this the threads are starting to scare people. Please stop. I don't mean to be rude to you. There is not on piece of solid evidence and I've talked to soooo many people it's not even funny. Don't buy it.

I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App

ucluglee said:
I'm rooted and I have wireless tether. However, there are apps in the market (Easy Tether and PDANet, for example) that do the same thing as wireless tether, but use a USB cable and work on unrooted phones, so the argument that VZW is cracking down on rooted users due to wireless tether isn't valid. I use WT every now and then if I need to connect my laptop for work reasons when I am at a customers location. If VZW feels the need to lock my phone, well, it IS their network and they have that right. I rooted my phone to get rid of the software that was bogging my phone down.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
+1 true
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

Lets tell HTC how we feel about them locking our phones down

I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251

I assume its due to new apps such as: netflix, hulu, move rentals and other apps that require a lockdown. I don't think HTC would like to see their hard work (HTC Sense) on other devices lowering the need for upgrades: example, the two Incredibles if you install sense 2.0 or skyraider 4.0 the need for Incredible 2 lowers quite a bit. I plan on jumping on Incredible 2 just because of its design. It is exactly what I wanted in the first Incredible. I'm all up more for unlocked HTC phones

I sent them an email and got the following response...
Thank you for your feedback regarding the Incredible 2. Unfortunately I do not have information about whether the bootloader is locked or how it can be customized to allow you to install a custom ROM. Because we focus on supporting the software included on the device and assisting users with free technical support we are only able to support the aspects of the device as they are developed by ourselves and your carrier, in this case Verizon.
That said, however, we do value your feedback. You will see an invitation to provide our company with recorded, documented feedback in the signature of my email to you. The ratings at the top are your opportunity to rate my response to you and then there is a comment section that allows you to make your opinions known to HTC itself, rather than to simply the representative who corresponds with you. I would encourage you to submit your opinion there as well, even if you just copy and paste most of your initial email to us.
We track this feedback and it does make a difference in our product decisions. If it turns out the bootloader is locked down with a secure key or other method, your feedback using the survey system may convince the powers that be to change this in a future update.
In regard to your inquiry regarding an API for the Sense interface, any application or widget targeted for Android should work in HTC Sense, so you should be able to use the Android APIs for your development purposes and this will also allow your application to work on phones that do not run HTC Sense, such as competitor phones or even some of our devices like the G2. That said, there are additional resources where you can get information about developing on HTC and Android devices:
http://www.htcmobilitynow.com/ This is a site that allows you to request to partner with us for application development or suggest a business opportunity, if you would like.
http://developer.htc.com/ This URL contains kernel and GPL-covered source code for our devices. Source is generally published within 90 days of a product release but it normally does not take that long.
To send a reply to this message or let me know I have successfully answered your question log in to our ContactUs site using your email address and your ticket number AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Sincerely,
Douglas
HTC
Want to see what others are saying? Have a question to ask other HTC fans?
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much just seems like a regular copy paste brush off response.

HTC has some very good reasons for locking devices down, and I don't blame them at all. Their setup is very nice for the average consumer.
I support OEMs locking their hardware in general, however I also support (and am active in) unlocking them. What they really need to do is find a workable solution, like enabling oem unlock.
tylerch said:
I'm kind of angry that HTC chooses to do this I mean after all we all purchased this phone therefor we should have the right to do as we please with it, correct?Sure its not really getting anything done on the rooting scene but the least we can do is tell them we're dissatisfied with their closed approach to Android.
http://twitter.com/htc
http://www.htc.com/www/about_htc_bymail.aspx
HTC Headquarters
23 Hsin Hua Rd., Taoyuan 330,
Taiwan, R. O. C.
Tel: +886-3-3753252
Fax: +886-3-3753251
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I have seen a lot of boilerplate brush-offs in my life, and while that HTC rep wasn't able to help get anything done in some concrete form, the letter was not based on a template. Sure they were 2 or 3 paragraphs that sounded stock, but I am guessing (and was very surprised considering what I have seen from HTC on other occasions) that the letter took a longer than average amount of time to write... I do not think it would not be considered a brush off.
And it makes sense... If there is any industry right now which is being carefully watched because of the world's acknowledged impact of it on an individual's daily life, both professional and personal, it is mobile communication and the development thereof. There is an extraordinary amount of money to be made and lost here. HTC is a newcomer through good fortune and I doubt anyone expected them to be sitting next to motorola, samsung, LG, etc. 3 years ago. In this age of social media where 4000 people complaining on a Facebook page can change a corporate policy, HTC is not ignoring any group. And not one with the power we have.
Look at T-Mobile, while I still think their customer device is mediocre, as third place carrier, I have noticed a distinct catering to the "enthusiast" segment of android. Now this doesn't mean they are going to have every phone released sporting a wide open OS like the G1, but their phones are relatively easy to root (wake up Motorola!), and the caliber of their phones (design, cutting edge technology like dual core) is far and away better than the other carriers out there.
I am starting to ramble, but my point is this is a crucial time in an area that we happen to be a big part of. If you don't think the manufacturers or the carriers are keeping a close eye on this board's membership, or the number of people served by CM7, your wrong.. We have the power to turn the carriers and the manufacturers future business plans on their ear. (With early attempts at a "kitchen"... man, that had to make them tremble a bit.) And this enthusiast market is only going to snowball, even if not for true enthusiasts, then for all the people that just want someone to root and re-theme their phone. Trust me, they care.
EDIT: Bottom line, the OP is making a smart suggestion.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA Premium App

I certainly expected them to be sitting were they are 3 years ago. 5 years ago, no. Hadn't heard of them yet.
Also that was not a stock brush off. Everytime I've contacted HTC I've been happily surprised with their answers. She told you what we need to do to change it so let's do it!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App

I agree with jcase that manufacturers and service providers have legitimate reasons for the locking of their respective devices.
One being the protection of their oem software as stated. Another is fraudulent device returns for devices bricked or otherwise rendered inoperable by something done at root level. Lastly the hot topic of rooted tethering and wifi hot spot which are paid services.
So that being said set aside your anger and look at it from their point of view.
I am a rooted user who takes full advantage of my devices potential. I hope that there is a solution in the not too distant future that will both protect the manufacturers and providers interests yet give us the option to modify our devices as we see fit.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App

Are you guys serious? HTC has been around for ages (1997) theyre one of the pioneers in pda/smartphone and touchscreen technology. First windows pda, first windows based phone, first 3g cdma smartphone, first android smartphone and first 4g smartphone. They've been innovative when LG and Moto thought the razr and shine were bleeding edge lol. I had NO doubt they would have a seat upon high. ;-)
Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

efaden said:
Why not just do what computer manufacturers have done for years? Have a recovery procedure. Or what the nook color did and always boot first off the sd card. Half of the reason that bricking occurs is as a result of circumventing the security. If there was a way to always boot off an sd card people could always restore it. No more bricked phones.. and everyone is happy.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC already does this, but many of us are dicking with the bootloader, which handles this. Once you mess with the bootloader, the possibility of bricking is very real.

Locking down the bootloader was Verizon's idea. Not HTC's. They would rather sell them unlocked. Only the carrier wants them locked. Just think about it and you will see why the manufacturers are forced to do so. There is no point contacting HTC. Please send such emails to Verizon. Please do bug HTC to sell unlocked boot loader devices on the net.
Sent from my thunderbolt

HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution

jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.

efaden said:
I agree. It would make sense if the only locked ones were the VZW branded, etc.... but unbranded phones are also locked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the incS has XTC support, and touchpro hooked raskal up with his verizon inc2 so lets pray we get support for the inc2!!!

jcase said:
HTC first did this on a non carrier branded phone first. The whole "it is Verizon" argument is silly, it is a reaction to the industry and carriers as a whole.
Don't blame Verizon solely, HTC wants this.
Sent from my LG Revolution
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the difficulties with rooting has not been carrier specific. In fact, the troubles started with the myTouch Slide on T-Mobile then the G2 on T-Mobile and now the Incredible 2 on Verizon, the Evo Shift on Sprint, and the Thunderbolt on Verizon.
Seems like this is more HTC than the specific carrier to me.

This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.

finitybeyond said:
This is good news. HTC is reviewing their bootloader policy:
http://www.androidcentral.com/htc-were-reviewing-our-bootloader-policy
Hopefully they'll let us unlock the bootloaders of phones they already released, like the Inc S and Inc 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Was just about to post this! I hope they let us unlock the bootloaders.
Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk

And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless

LowFire82 said:
And who says Facebook, Twitter, and other social media is completely useless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Found this on the HTC Facebook page..
"There has been overwhelmingly customer feedback that people want access to open bootloaders on HTC phones. I want you to know that we've listened. Today, I'm confirming we will no longer be locking the bootloaders on our devices. Thanks for your passion, support and patience," Peter Chou, CEO of HTC

Hell yea I was just about to post that as well! I hope this means they will provide means to unlock currently locked phones.

Dear HTC, can we have our phone back

Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
****
My contribution.

I made it about 60% through and I still don't see s-off released. ;p

acer73 said:
Before you start to think I am about to scream "GPL, GPL, GPL," stop for a second, take a deep breath, and sympathize with the thousands of power users and developers who have been left in the dark and/or ignored in regard to their device being partially unlocked with a seeming false advertisement. This is an opinionated piece in the regard of actually getting what we asked for and were promised to receive.
Not long ago, users and developers alike relied heavily on hackers and logic to achieve S-OFF to get the full experience of their desire for a great(er) experience on their Android phone. Some people buy an overlay device like HTC with Sense, Motorola with Blur, and so on, knowing what entails when they get it, but they anticipate running a stock experience or a heavily optimized build from one of the developers in this community. Recently we took a moment to talk with ToastCFH and Dees_Troy from TeamWin, who are responsible for HTC Dumlock. HTC Dumlock makes the unlocked device further accessible for a few more phones.
Last week we purchased some T-Mobile One S units for our developers and one of them was chosen to go for a test drive and to try out HTC Dev Bootloader Unlock. This is where we got to know each other and a bit more about HTC's online utility, which nonetheless has disappointed thousands more than just a bit. I am going to let everyone know now: do not plan on just stopping at rooting this and calling it a day, I tried to remove bloat with Root Explorer and came to a brick wall of denial. I found out you also cannot flash custom kernels in recovery mode.
"What is affected in retrospect when I unlock?" Let me answer that: It actually cripples your phone. It's probably less risky to take a chance and go for an S-OFF method that could potentially brick your device. As per numerous reports, and some insight from ToastCFH and Dees_Troy, there is a plethora of issues with this process and many gripes and speculation just coming from myself.
A cobb without a Kernel: Flashing a kernel is similar to trying out walking on coals. You have to do the following (coming from ToastCFH at XDA):
fastboot boot recovery alternaterecovery.img
Here's some thought: If you flash a crap/test kernel that doesn't boot, not only can you not pull the battery you have to relentlessly use your power button to get yourself out of the mess to get the phone to shut off (HTC One series). The reason you can do it through "booting" recovery as opposed of using the one you flashed: The boot method is actually using the boot/temp partition, which in the end, is not really the boot partition.
HTC, why are you doing this? Aren't you supposed to be trying to deter users from chasing exploits and trying to gain S-OFF? It sure doesn't seem like it. From this perspective, it seems you will be are pissing off and running away potential customers instead. The image you see above is the warning you receive in HBOOT after unlocking the device via HTC Dev. Note that it doesnt say "unlocked" but a very menacing "Tampered," a word that carries a different set of connotations altogether.
All your system are belong to HTC: ROM Manager uses a script to replace your recovery while in Android. The slight issue is, it requires root. Root is the center of the development universe when it comes to ROMs, kernels, mods and the likes of the bunch. HANDS DOWN, most of the alterations you make to your phone while booted in Android utilize root and the system partition. This is not only a P.I.T.A., it can be a deal-breaker. I will get to that point in a bit. First, let's take a look: How do I tinker with something if the manufacturer tells me I can but in reality I can't? Conundrums. It's amazing: You cannot remove the bloat from your phone, you cannot replace the recovery and you sure cannot replace the boot image while booted in Android/Sense.
Radio killed the kernel dev star: Yes, radio. Those cool P*IMG.zip files you flash in HBOOT, that's out the window... Unless you get an RUU (ROM Update Utility) and go back to the stock firmware. With older HTC devices with S-OFF, you could slap a P*IMG.Zip (essentially a firmware/radio update in HTC's update.zip format) on the SD card and boot into HBOOT. It would check and flash it for you. That whole proces is gone; this entire process of being able to do this on the mobile side is now gone. You will now need a computer to flash the file.
To need or not to need... That is the question: Toast brings up another excellent point: If these measures have to be in place (maybe due to carrier request) why not provide the proper documentation to support the device? We're pretty sure when someone unlocks this device they understand they are giving up any firmware support from HTC.
Then why not give us documentation or utilities to flash fimware.zips from recovery like HTC does? When HTC was the proud Nexus device there was full support and documentation available on how to flash firmware on their devices. This made anyone choosing an HTC device blessed with knowing that their device was not only open and unlocked, but when flashing firmware that it was being flashed correctly to Google and HTC's standards. This code has now been moved out of recovery since right before the move to edify scripting and moved to vendor/htc/ (not arguing this choice as thats where it belongs from a maintaining point of view). But the problem is that vendor/htc is proprietary now. Which means Documentation and support for flashing firmware correctly is not available and left to developers of recoveries for the community to figure out. One would think if HTC was standing behind us that they would step up and give us a PROPER/OPEN/REAL unlock, or if they cant for the lame excuse of security concerns, then give us the documentation and utilities to flash the boot and firmware partitions properly. I mean really... what is there to lose there?
- ToastCFH
An excellent point, and most of you will probably agree with his bomb of logic. At the end of the day, he is right; the unlock method is crap and we find it more of a hinderance and crippling intent rather than a compliance to the developer community who has made them the number one development device for so long. Recently Samsung has taken the torch and led its dedicated developers with fulfilled promises and standards.
HTC, why would you do this? That is far too easy. Clarification, reason, justification, etc., it isn't needed. It's about doing the right thing. HTC has kept the proverbial sprinklers on and now the unlock tool is watered down. My advice for the power user/modder/dev is that this tool is essentially useless. We have been the number one spot for developer support by giving free devices to developers and UI designers to make the device even more fun and unique. We will continue to support, drive, and advocate open development on a supposedly open platform and follow those who make it what it is today. With that being said, it makes us skeptical in giving devices to people that HTC seems to have set a navigation route to Failure Avenue, and know that the developer on hand won't feel shorted. HTC, let us own our devices. Some love the hardware, some love the software, but in the end we love Android.
Lastly, GPL. It is is not made to stretch the maximum time available and take your time. It is probably a good suggestion to set up an HTC gitweb or something of the nature to ensure that when the device is available, the developers that you "support" so much can have free reign at improving your device and moving forward at their own pace. That making the final connection to the developer house, letting the user and developer free you from providing software support. Release the source, fully alert and vigilant. We know it takes time to clean code, but the One X (international) community could really use some tasty kernel source code right about now.
One last note: HTC may not be able to further assist with the firmware/software/OS once unlocked, but you can still support your hardware by giving some documentation on how to proceed with an unlocked device. Giving someone a flashlight with no batteries in a dark house isn't an ideal method of answering our call.
Sincerely,
Your Customer.
If you read this, please take a moment and support your developers and modders that enhance your phone life everyday, by tweeting, sharing or posting on Facebook the following quote:
" @HTC we want our phones back! http://tinyw.in/LNSn "
Thanks to everyone who has read and contributed to this piece.
****
My contribution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done
Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Tapatalk

Done

I would share it but its got to many bad grammatical mistakes that makes its a hard read plus doesn't specifically request things like S-OFF. The sentiment surely is right though.