Develop Bugs

[Q] What would you like to see in the next HTC Phone?

What would you like to see in the next HTC Phone? Choose? And also post what you would like to see and have.

Good hardware. I.e., a camera sensor that doesn't suck, use of NAND rather than SD card for storage, screens which doesn't look washed out.
HTC has a lot of stepping up to do for me to consider another device from them. I was pretty happy with my HD2, but the HD7 I initially picked up went back to the store real quick. In the end I ended up with the Omnia 7 from Samsung instead.

Hardware
I switched for the first time from HTC, couldn't accept the Surround. Get rid of that rediculous speaker setup and replace it with their great keyboard. At least a 4.3" screen equal to the Super AMOLED of the Samsung Focus, maximum amount of internal memory (32GB would be fine with me), HDMI port.

I would vote for 32GB+ NAND flash for sure, all other things aren't important as far as I'm concerned.
More importantly, I'd like to see more than one next HTC WP7 phone (just as Samsung phones, and phones from other OEMs).
Because at this point of time, sales numbers for the next few quarters will determine the fate of WP7. And without phones you won't get those numbers. None of the OEMs is or will be capable of making just one phone that'll drive the OS forward.
No matter how much MS will talk about "sales aren't important" and "we're in it for the long haul", they are facing lots of pressure from investors, this isn't the time of XBox launch. Unlike many, I don't think that the launch was a failure (getting 2% of smartphone sales is awesome with so few devices and on half the carriers), but MS will need to ramp it up aggressively, and it can't be done by ads alone no matter how much they spend.
That there are no leaks with MWC looming is troubling.

Tegra 2, lots of NAND, 4" SLCD.

vangrieg said:
That there are no leaks with MWC looming is troubling.
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Agreed. During the initial launch we knew about pretty much every phone that was going to be released by this point. The only thing I've seen this time around is that Asus phone.
As for what I'd want in the next phone, physical buttons and half-decent build quality.

Microsoft knows that it has a major uphill battle. Most phone sales are due to word of mouth (a friend has one and loves/hates it) over TV ads. Windows Mobile had a bad rap when compared to Android and the iPhoney, due to its lack of upgrades.
Microsoft needs to blow the lid off this, work with providers to make KICK ASS phones that people want for fair prices.
As for HTC phones, anything over a 4.3" display is getting a little too big (don't people keep their phones in their pockets ?)for a phone. This is getting into the tablet area but, if there is NO QWERTY keyboard, the display MUST be at least 4"
Fast, "great quality, good sized display", modern tech (DLNA, FM, A-GPS, NFC...etc), QWERTY keyboard with a small form factor. If HTC has it, great, if someone else, maybe then it's for me.
I was loyal to HTC for a while but, I have had some crappy phones, so I am open to try others to see how good they are.

DavidinCT said:
I was loyal to HTC for a while but, I have had some crappy phones, so I am open to try others to see how good they are.
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The great thing about WP7 is that it doesn't really matter (shhh, don't tell OEMs). It makes a huge difference. My Mozart is the first HTC phone I've had that doesn't need a new ROM. It's marvellous what no OEM software does to a phone.

vangrieg said:
The great thing about WP7 is that it doesn't really matter (shhh, don't tell OEMs). It makes a huge difference. My Mozart is the first HTC phone I've had that doesn't need a new ROM. It's marvellous what no OEM software does to a phone.
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Was not talking about Software, I was talking about hardware (I had 12 XV6800s...YES, 12, because they would always break)

A decent fast keyboard device please!!!!!

orb3000 said:
A decent fast keyboard device please!!!!!
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let me drop a nice link for you then
http://www.htc.com/www/product/7pro/overview.html

To the OP:
You should change the QuadBand World Phone to Pentaband 3G. That's what should become the new standard for high end phones at this point.

I want dual core processor, 1gb RAM, better camera sensor/software and a hardware keyboard in a device with a 4" SLCD. Maybe one with LTE support
Problem HTC?

1. higher class of hardware (screen, speaker...)
2. a real IO port for using external addons (TV-out, IR remote control, bio sensors...)

[Q] How good is Win phone 7?

Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks

For me, one sentence will answer all...because we want to try something new and fresh.
However,the usability and satisfaction towards the OS or device are depends on your personal preference.
IMHO, I'm not really satisfied with this new OS,it is still in premature stage.

Much better user experience than WM and Android. More restrictions than both though, but most people aren't affected by this.

WP7 is smooth, clean and simple. It's generally very fast and elegant in operation. But right now it has bugs...at least for the pre-nodo devices. It currently lacks the higher-end hardware associated with the latest Androids and the iPhone, such as no front camera or dual-cpu. It doesn't use a plug & play expandable memory card...though you can expand the system memory with a little complexity on some devices...without voiding the warranty.

MO, its nice and fast with good apps. Big and easy to the eyes fonts.
But the weak point it gave you the feeling the phone is tied down as if you rent instead of owning it e.g. cant transfer documents to pc(not everyone have sharepoint),
no backups on anything(apps with user data or sms..anything) shud the phone needs to be reset or repaired.
If you are a patience type, then waiting for updates will not be an issue for you.

DatDereX1 said:
Much better user experience than WM and Android. More restrictions than both though, but most people aren't affected by this.
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Well, if you're going to confuse User INTERFACE with User EXPERIENCE, than your post is correct. Unfortunately, you are confused. The Experience goes beyond the interface. I'm not going to put my huge list in yet another thread. I'll leave it at that.
@ OP:
In the end it depends on your requirements and how you use your phone. The way I'd rank them, depending on what you need most:
Phone/Battery Life: Nokia (Symbian) > Blackberry
Media: WP7 > iOS (Phones with Bigger Screens, Zune Pass/Zune, etc.)
Gaming: iOS > WP7 > Android (Too many Android games are of terrible quality/bug-riddled).
Browsing: Android > iOS (More Browser Choices, bigger screens, 4G devices, etc.)
Communication (SMS/MMS/IM/eMail and Business Communications): Symbian > Blackberry > Android (WP7 would be in last place here, IMO)
Business User: Windows Mobile > Symbian > Blackberry (BB loses points due to needing BES for decent Exchange support - WM gains points for supporting every Exchange Policy and having Office Mobile 2010)
If having Voice Nav is a huge thing than Android > Symbian > Windows Mobile
If you're an Appaholic: iOS > Android > Blackberry
Since I know where you're probably (even if secretly) coming from, I'll just cut to the chase here... WP7 isn't as good as Android. The User Interface is better and it performs better in many cases (this is device dependent, to a large degree), but the level of services integration in addition to the functionality drop-off going from Windows Mobile to Windows Phone 7 is just not good when compared to other platforms. Microsoft failed to capitalize on their Windows Live services with WP7 (billed as a consumer device) and then they failed harder by locking down the platform so tight that the development community can't even help them close these gaps.
WP7 is a necessary step forward for Microsoft, but the platform is Beta in functionality and Release Candidate in User Experience. From what has been coming out of Microsoft, it also seems like nothing more than a transition platform. Don't get it until Mango releases to all carriers if you are coming from iOS or Android. You never know what the functionality gap is until you actually use this device on a daily basis. Using it for 20 minutes in a carrier store is not enough.
However, for those moving up from a feature phone and don't really want all the extra fluff of a true smartphone OS, then WP7 may suite them well...

MartyLK said:
WP7 is smooth, clean and simple. It's generally very fast and elegant in operation. But right now it has bugs...at least for the pre-nodo devices. It currently lacks the higher-end hardware associated with the latest Androids and the iPhone, such as no front camera or dual-cpu. It doesn't use a plug & play expandable memory card...though you can expand the system memory with a little complexity on some devices...without voiding the warranty.
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+1 on this.

N8ter said:
However, for those moving up from a feature phone and don't really want all the extra fluff of a true smartphone OS, then WP7 may suite them well...
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Well, I personally moved from a "true smartphone OS" (WM) to iOS to WP7 with a couple of brief stops with Android, and it suits me very well. Because I can do more with it, and better, including work (which for me is primarily communication via email and checking/quick editing office documents). While I will 200% agree that WP7 isn't a "PC in your pocket" in terms of power/flexibility/features by any stretch of imagination, and it isn't a business powerhouse, whether and how platforms fit your specific needs is what matters. Each platform has its own specific bugs or quirks which you may not notice at all or they can turn your phone ownership into hell.

You're going to have the "hate it"s and the "love it"s, with a good mix of fanboys in the middle, so my advice is to get an actual device in your hands and play a while with it.
Read about its features and current limitations and if it fits your needs, it has the apps you require and you enjoy it, take it... I know I did.

Avandor said:
my advice is to get an actual device in your hands and play a while with it.
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Actually, this is a crucially important piece of advice. As uniform as WP7 devices are, I had a very difficult time getting a phone for myself. My major problem with the current crop is miserable amount of storage. I had to go for a carrier branded Mozart to get at least 16GB, and while it wasn't SIM locked and doesn't cause too much hassle, I would advise that you avoid branded handsets if possible. You won't get any added value from them but updates will be delayed, among other things.

vangrieg said:
You won't get any added value from them but updates will be delayed, among other things.
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In some cases carrier locked models do come at cheaper prices, which is crucial to some people when choosing their phones.

scionXda said:
Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks
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IMO you are asking the question wrong. It's a bit like asking if a Hummer is a better car than a Prius? With no qualifiers you will get as many answers saying the Hummer as you get people saying the Prius.
Now, let me add some more information. I live in the country, have three dogs (who like going for drives), we get ****loads of snow in the winter and them side roads leading up to the property are not exactly prioritized when it comes to removing snow.
For me it (Hummer) definitely is, but for them there city folks probably not so much
If you'd like to add some more information about what you use your phone for, i.e. what is important to you - I'm sure we'll get you some good reasons why you should (or not) pick WP7.

N8ter said:
Well, if you're going to confuse User INTERFACE with User EXPERIENCE, than your post is correct. Unfortunately, you are confused. The Experience goes beyond the interface. I'm not going to put my huge list in yet another thread. I'll leave it at that.
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The interface is indeed better, and the user experience is also better in general. MUCH better than WM's user experience; you can't deny that.
Similar to how the iphone couldn't do nearly as much as WM when it was released, but the user experience was much better. Everything "just worked" as they say. Some people have issues with WP but most don't have or care about any. It "just works".

Windows Phone 7 is by far the best OS I have used.
Android is very laggy. I can't tell you how many times I went to answer a call and couldn't because my Android device wouldn't respond in time.
Interface is unmatched. Way better than anything Android or iOS has to offer.
iOS is a good OS if you have the latest hardware (iPhone4), but the interface kills it for me. It's very boring.
Gaming experience is really awesome on WP7. Love the XBox Live integration/achievements.
Mostly everything just works without a hitch.
There are still bugs... but as an early adopter, I couldn't be happier.

Having both I say choose Android but watch WP7 for the future.
Currently WP7 offers very little to the customers.
It has very easy and nice interface but equally boring and dull to be honest.
Almost every thing this device can do is limited, maybe besides Zune and Xbox.
If you don't care about any more advanced features WP7 may be for you.
After 3 months of liking it I couldn't stand it anymore.
Limitations driving me crazy, stupid inconsistencies in performance plus Interface which is just a little bit too primitive (even if it's so easy to use).
Many people wrote here alot about both OS'es. Almost everything has been said.
For me WP7 is a massive disappointment. I gave it huge credit, bought my WP7 device for cash in December. But honestly the current situation is simply unacceptable at all.
Crippled features + no support in most countries with Marketplace, Maps, Bing and native Keyboard. If I think of it now I see it's ridiculous.
WP7 definitely is something worth interest because MS has all the services to make a perfect ecosystem in every possible area and that may be amazing. That was one of the reasons I bought it. But they don't do it now at all. You can do 100 times more on any other platform.
I suppose WP7 may be big hit once Nokia will jump on the market and WP7 will be much more opened. I think after Mango update this can be better and better.
But not now. Apparently MS has huge problem with the upgrade system what is not positive. My device still can't be updated although preNoDo was OK.
So a really competitive and finished product can be available around beginning of next year. Not before and it's too long to wait for me - I buy device to do the job!
I guess current WP7 is like an advanced beta where MS has it's learning curve.
And regarding the fluidity I say - people tell myths here.
WP7 lags sometimes terribly and current Android interations are really snappy.

I had a iphone then a Desire HD (which I still have) and now a samsung omnia 7 16gb, I also have a Ipad 1 so have a good idea of all of the OS's. All three are good phones, and getting any of the 3 different OS you can't go wrong really.
However I am loving WP7 so far even with the little quirks, the UI is really awesome and I much prefer it to Android in that regard, I spent hours using launcher pro and icons and lock screen mods and was never happy with how it looked whereas WP7 does all i need on that front and beautifully.
Also it's a lot smoother than android, though to be fair Android is as smooth as you need, the very little lags and jerks you get when scrolling are not big deals and I didn't actually notice them till I had both phones side by side, not sure why people make such a big deal about tiny jerkiness sometimes in the scrolling on Android.
IOS was a little too bland for me and I really wanted a better notification system as well as a bigger screen 3.5 was too small for web pages and gaming, though the amount of good quality apps was amazing, however I had my iphone for 3 years and I really only had about 20 apps, A few games to play when really bored and not at my PC.
Zune is awesome, million times better than Itunes, never used it before WP7 but now I am hooked, will be going from the trial to a paid zune pass too, works very well the streaming.
I also am impressed with the gaming on WP7 some very cool games in the market place, just a pity they are normally a lot more expensive than what you get on the iphone or android.
So overall WP7 does what I need (email, calendar, phone calls, and music with the odd game) and in a beautiful UI, for some people it wont do what they want and that's fine but for me it's great.
The Desire HD isn't used much at all anymore and I will probably ebay it soon. Really hope WP7 gets bigger as in my opinion it deserves a place in the the market even at this early stage of it's life

It completely baffles me as to why people continue to point out that WinPhone doesn't use dual cpus as though it has some negative affect on the phone or it's experience, even going as far as to compare it to Android phones which do use it. With it's first generation processor it still outshines newer Android devices. Performance? WP7 outperforms those dual cpu Android devices. Battery life, as so many have argued is the biggest positive? WP7 still gets better battery life. Also, how many people actually use front facing cameras? Really? I know quite a few people with MyTouchs and iPhone4s who have never done a video chat, and they've owned the devices since launch.
Just had to get that out there.

Really the only things where it suffers are in the app department....once the OS gets it legs(another year or so) it will be on par if not better than iOS. It doesn't beat out the Iphone 4(definitely better than the 3G and 3GS) and some android phones. I say some because Android is highly dependent on the phone you get. With Windows Phone you can pretty much go with any phone and they all work well. Im on my 3rd month with it and I still love it. Ive been through sony android phones, the iphone 3GS and a bada phone as well.

FiyaFleye said:
With it's first generation processor it still outshines newer Android devices.
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Absolutely not true, actually just the opposite.

scionXda said:
Its this Windows better than other mobile OS?
Why?
Why I have to choose Win phone 7 instead of Android?
Can some one tell me please?
thanks
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it's ok .

Nokia Lumia 800 reviewed

The Verge has what I believe to be the first review for this phone.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-review

Seems to show the same general anti-wp7 bias common amongst tech blogs but less so than most. Commendable enough, though how it didn't outscore the n9 I dont know.

z33dev33l said:
Seems to show the same general anti-wp7 bias common amongst tech blogs but less so than most. Commendable enough, though how it didn't outscore the n9 I dont know.
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Wow, you really see evil everywhere. Anti-wp7 bias? And why should it outscore the N9 exactly? Using their comparison tool, it makes total sense the N9 scores higher. Not to mention you're complaining about a 0.1 difference.
And you call people haters...
http://www.theverge.com/products/compare/42/2593

z33dev33l said:
Seems to show the same general anti-wp7 bias common amongst tech blogs but less so than most. Commendable enough, though how it didn't outscore the n9 I dont know.
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Please cite specific examples of anti-WP7 bias.

I think it is a pretty objective review. Where the 800 shines, without question, is in the distinctive case design:
The Lumia 800 / N9 design ethos is all about effortless simplicity for the user, but it's backed by a stupefying amount of calculation, modeling, and testing behind the scenes. What you see and feel in your hand is a seamless piece of soft-touch plastic, curved on all sides and gently tapering toward flattened-out top and bottom surfaces, fronted by a curved screen. It's natural and pleasant to the touch, with great ergonomics and weight balance — the diametric opposite of the cold and impersonal appearance of most modern technology. Being able to meld that aggressively minimalist monobody design with a fully functional smartphone is where Nokia's manufacturing chops really shine through.
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Aside from a non-removable battery, it is probably the most attractive-looking phone I've ever seen.
The rest of the review does a commendable job of digging into the phone's strengths and weaknesses, and pulls no punches on areas where they feel Nokia/Microsoft could have done better (the unresponsive physical buttons, average camera performance, competitive but not stand-out WP7 hardware, and so on).
Someone looking for a good WP7 phone would do well to consider the 800. It's a shame it won't be in the US for several months.

Because despite astounding hardware, meego is pretty much completely unsupported, not as fluid as wp7, and pretty much completely unsupported. Not to mention it's about as aesthetically appealing as Symbian. If they're reviewing software at all then despite WP7's shortcomings it greatly supercedes meego.

RoboDad said:
Someone looking for a good WP7 phone would do well to consider the 800. It's a shame it won't be in the US for several months.
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I would trade the possibility to buy a Lumnia 800 for the one to buy a Focus S

Peew971 said:
I would trade the possibility to buy a Lumnia 800 for the one to buy a Focus S
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+1 on that. The Lumia 800 is nice, no doubt. But the Focus S is plain sexy.

z33dev33l said:
Because despite astounding hardware, meego is pretty much completely unsupported, not as fluid as wp7, and pretty much completely unsupported. Not to mention it's about as aesthetically appealing as Symbian. If they're reviewing software at all then despite WP7's shortcomings it greatly supercedes meego.
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You can argue WP7 isn't the best supported OS either and the N9 gives you Front Facing camera, 4 times more storage, double the RAM, a bigger screen, NFC, pentaband, tethering, video out. Since you're not scoring potential, it seems fair that the N9 scores higher.

The 4 times more storage and FFC are considerable, the rest aren't really factors to the vast majority. What would a meego phone even do with all that ram? That said, the score differential is in the design element. There really is very little design difference unless an added dedicated camera button docked the score considerably.

z33dev33l said:
The 4 times more storage and FFC are considerable, the rest aren't really factors to the vast majority. What would a meego phone even do with all that ram? That said, the score differential is in the design element. There really is very little design difference unless an added dedicated camera button docked the score considerably.
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Whatever dude.

dkp1977 said:
+1 on that. The Lumia 800 is nice, no doubt. But the Focus S is plain sexy.
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the focus S has the specs but the design element is pretty ugly. I want a phone that's as aesthetically pleasing as the OS itself.

Peew971 said:
I would trade the possibility to buy a Lumnia 800 for the one to buy a Focus S
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That comes down to personal preference. After the debacle of Focus updates on WP7, I will never buy another Samsung phone. Ever.

I finally got the chance to pick up and play with a n9 the other day and disregarding the OS i was really not impressed with the build of the phone. Most of my quarrels are with the physical buttons similar to what the article mentioned and i really do not like having the micro usb ports at the top of the phone as opposed to the bottom as i like to put my phones in a cradle at my desk.
Although this is the n9 i am sure its is very similar to the lumia 800. This is definitely not the phone for me primarily due to its small screen size, as i like the real estate i currently hold with my HD7.
I still think its funny when reviewing WP7 devices they actually talk about the operating system other then to increase awareness. The WP7 experience is the same across nearly all handset minus included software, this is different to android reviews as they can have different interface which effect look and performance. Continuity is a wonderful thing.

I will just say one thing.. I WANT IT!

I'm still on the fence of whether to stay with WP7, or put it on the back burner (for now) while it finishes cooking. But, if I do stick with it, and assuming that Nokia can iron out the camera issues prior to releasing the 800 in the US, and assuming that there is a 32 GB option, this will probably be my phone of choice.

Peew971 said:
The Verge has what I believe to be the first review for this phone.
http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/3/2534861/nokia-lumia-800-review
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Peew, its me. Please just hear (or read) me out for a few minutes and maybe we can see eye to eye.
I can't stand engadget's reviews but they are a necessary evil. I am hoping The Verge is different and when I opened the link you posted, I noticed the author's name sounded familiar. Vlad Savov... Vlad... where have I seen that before? Then I remember a conversation I had with a good friend about this article here.
Go to that link. Scroll down to the Disqus comments section. Sort by Best Rating. The comments complaining about Vlad are overwhelming. There was an aspect of the tablet that he complained about and it turned out he did not know what he was doing.
Now, back to where we are. I have not read the review yet and it may be a fair one. Engadget also posted their review today. I will read both and comment.
But Vlad was a questionable reviewer then at Engadget. Maybe he got better. Maybe he was being censored.
Edit:
I just read The Verge's review and it honestly sounded like a fair review. He nitpicked on the buttons on the phone, but since I haven't used it I will defer. Zee, you might be a little too sensitive
I could not even get through the first paragraphy of the Engadget review. They started off by slamming Elop for saying the 800 is a refinement of the N8, citing every hardware feature is worse. The Lumia 800 has a 1.4GHz cpu, radio, bettery battery life, a dedicated camera button, and Windows Phone on it. Clearly in a Windows Phone event, he would refering to the whole package as a refinement.

I don't know why people seem to hate on Engadget, I think they do a great job on reviews. I've read their Lumia 800 review and it's no less fair than The Verge's (most of The Verge crew comes from Engadget anyway). Fine, not every feature is worse but they do have a point. I can give you the better processor if you want but the battery is the same (battery life is not battery) and the radio is part of the OS. So really that's it. Ok I can also give you the camera button if you want.
Elop has gone on record claiming that the Lumia 800 is a "refinement" of the N9. That's not a good use of English and we can't let it slide, because every hardware difference between the two devices leaves the Lumia 800 worse off. There's no globetrotting pentaband 3G, which means no AWS support for T-Mo USA's network. The front-facing camera and notification LED have evaporated. The screen is slightly smaller due to the intrusion of the Windows Phone buttons. There's only 512MB of RAM instead of 1GB. Onboard storage maxes out at 16GB rather than 64GB with the N9. NFC is also inexplicably lacking, so the phone can't pair up with Nokia accessories and it probably won't be able to keep up future innovations that Nokia says its working on for Windows Phone 8 (aka Apollo).
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I don't know why some of you can't admit the Lumia 800 is a downgrade from the N9 hardware-wise, this is pretty clear.

Peew971 said:
I don't know why people seem to hate on Engadget, I think they do a great job on reviews. I've read their Lumia 800 review and it's no less fair than The Verge's (most of The Verge crew comes from Engadget anyway). Fine, not every feature is worse but they do have a point. I can give you the better processor if you want but the battery is the same (battery life is not battery) and the radio is part of the OS. So really that's it. Ok I can also give you the camera button if you want.
I don't know why some of you can't admit the Lumia 800 is a downgrade from the N9 hardware-wise, this is pretty clear.
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I do. I'm not impressed with the 800. Haven't been, either. But I just read something about the N9 that intrigued me. It has MeeGo and that's the only mobileOS I have never experienced.

Peew971 said:
I don't know why people seem to hate on Engadget, I think they do a great job on reviews. I've read their Lumia 800 review and it's no less fair than The Verge's (most of The Verge crew comes from Engadget anyway). Fine, not every feature is worse but they do have a point. I can give you the better processor if you want but the battery is the same (battery life is not battery) and the radio is part of the OS. So really that's it. Ok I can also give you the camera button if you want.
I don't know why some of you can't admit the Lumia 800 is a downgrade from the N9 hardware-wise, this is pretty clear.
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software is more important to me than hardware. That's why I dont use android.

High Praise Nokia From Gizmodo Of All Places

http://m.gizmodo.com/5857409/nokia-lumia-800-lightning-review-the-unattainable-foreign-beauty
Makes me want to hunt one down. Group buy anyone?

I would buy, easily. Shame it's not selling here, and if I buy from another country, when it arrives I would have to pay 100% of tax.

I don't get this preconceived ideas on some media outlets. Why "from Gizmodo of all places"? Maybe you only read some website because you think they're biased but I try to read a bit from all of them. For information this is how Gizmodo reviewed things before this phone:
- Zune HD: they loved it and wished it was a phone
- WP7: they loved that Zune HD turned into a phone, loved the OS, only hoped MS would update it quickly
- Mango: they loved it, just what they wanted from WP7
So really when you say "from Gizmodo of all places" you must really think they're just Apple fanboys who hate everything else when actually recent history proved they're not.
---------- Post added at 04:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------
Should I Buy This
The Lumia 800 is by far the best Windows Phone you can buy.
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If it is better than the HTC Titan then it is some phone.

This is the kind of statement that always makes me question integrity (ironic given what I said above). Best Windows Phone when it's missing features that are on both the Titan and Focus S, that's a bit odd.

Peew971 said:
I don't get this preconceived ideas on some media outlets. Why "from Gizmodo of all places"? Maybe you only read some website because you think they're biased but I try to read a bit from all of them. For information this is how Gizmodo reviewed things before this phone:
- Zune HD: they loved it and wished it was a phone
- WP7: they loved that Zune HD turned into a phone, loved the OS, only hoped MS would update it quickly
- Mango: they loved it, just what they wanted from WP7
So really when you say "from Gizmodo of all places" you must really think they're just Apple fanboys who hate everything else when actually recent history proved they're not.
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It's quite simple, all websites in the Gawker network are known for from time to time write very bad articles just to piss people off. Because that gives them traffic boosts.
Here are two examples of articles that has been criticized:
http://gizmodo.com/5833787/my-brief-okcupid-affair-with-a-world-champion-magic-the-gathering-player
http://kotaku.com/5818213/professional-gaming-on-the-downturn-cheesy-tv-to-blame
They may give publicity to Windows Phone, which is a very good thing (for us), but I can't help to wonder if it isn't just to piss off the MS haters.

This anti-WP7 bias that supposedly exists on review sites is total BS.
Accept it people - it's entirely possible reviewers just don't like WP7 OS or hardware vs the Android and iPhones they're used to.

Aphasaic2002 said:
This anti-WP7 bias that supposedly exists on review sites is total BS.
Accept it people - it's entirely possible reviewers just don't like WP7 OS or hardware vs the Android and iPhones they're used to.
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Quite possible, but that should not preclude an honest review of the inadequacies AND capabilities of WP7 without going on a rant about how MS should give up and concede the market. And for the record, anti-WP7 reviewer bias is not BS.

you know it's part of advertising right? Companies like Apple, MS and Google paid big bucks to splatters their name all over the web. In this case....probable Nokia.
I never trust any review on the web...unless it's by the consumers.

The Nokia might be a nice phone, but all I know is that if I were to settle for such a small phone, I would go with the Focus Flash. I much prefer a perfectly flat screen and the shape and style of the Flash is outstanding. Combined with a better AMOLED display and the style, the Flash is more appealing to me than the Lumia 800 and it has pretty much the same hardware...both are just as featureless, I mean (no FFC and such).

Peew971 said:
This is the kind of statement that always makes me question integrity (ironic given what I said above). Best Windows Phone when it's missing features that are on both the Titan and Focus S, that's a bit odd.
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The best Windows Phone to me is the Lumia 800. The Windows Phone with the most bells and whistles is the Focus S.

If Samsung went back to some captivate-esque build quality then I'd be onboard. The lumia 800 just dominates the build quality department though.

nicksti said:
The best Windows Phone to me is the Lumia 800. The Windows Phone with the most bells and whistles is the Focus S.
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It's your right to prefer the Lumia 800 as best for your needs. I just think that as a media outlet that has access to all the phones I find it a bit odd to give this title to this particluar phone when the Titan and Focus S have bigger screens, removable batteries or FFC for instance. You would have to give some considerable weight to Nokia Drive but it doesn't look like it was a factor there.

Peew971 said:
It's your right to prefer the Lumia 800 as best for your needs. I just think that as a media outlet that has access to all the phones I find it a bit odd to give this title to this particluar phone when the Titan and Focus S have bigger screens, removable batteries or FFC for instance. You would have to give some considerable weight to Nokia Drive but it doesn't look like it was a factor there.
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If smaller screen and lack of removeable battery were ever a negative, the iPhone should have never gotten the 9s it got in every iteration on Engadget. There is little difference between the Titan and 800; both have smaller storage and lack of FFC.
But to be honest, if I was an online reviewer and I had to say which phone is currently the best Windows Phone, I would say the Lumia 800. You may not read my articles ever again
Let us face facts, in the Windows Phone world the experience from phone to phone is going to be so similar that something like looks, camera, and colours could be the differentiator. I have been harping on the lack of colours on these feature phones for a while now. I think Nokia really has something with that.

nicksti said:
There is little difference between the Titan and 800; both have smaller storage and lack of FFC.
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The Titan comes with a 1.3MP FFC.

nicksti said:
If smaller screen and lack of removeable battery were ever a negative, the iPhone should have never gotten the 9s it got in every iteration on Engadget. There is little difference between the Titan and 800; both have smaller storage and lack of FFC.
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Sometimes I cannot tell if you're serious with some things you say. The Titan has a FFC and a much bigger screen. Same goes for the Focus S. The iPhone wasn't compared to another iPhone in the ecosystem unlike the Lumia 800. It's not like you had the choice of a 4" iPhone you can compare it to. In the same ecosystem the Lumia is missing features other phones have so to call best WP out there is questionable when this is coming from a tech website reviewer (if you want to believe that good for you). Unless like I said you consider Nokia Drive to be an amazing must have feature.

Peew971 said:
Sometimes I cannot tell if you're serious with some things you say. The Titan has a FFC and a much bigger screen. Same goes for the Focus S. The iPhone wasn't compared to another iPhone in the ecosystem unlike the Lumia 800. It's not like you had the choice of a 4" iPhone you can compare it to. In the same ecosystem the Lumia is missing features other phones have so to call best WP out there is questionable when this is coming from a tech website reviewer (if you want to believe that good for you). Unless like I said you consider Nokia Drive to be an amazing must have feature.
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It was an error on my part. I dunno why you say that about me. I thought we agreed it is a personal thing. Why is a "much bigger screen" a positive thing? The best selling phone in the last 3 years has a 3.5" screen. Yes, there are no iPhone options, but choice is choice, and people choose to own a 3.5" iPhone.
I am wrong about the FFC, my error, but I am serious that I think the Lumia is the best Windows Phone on the market.
All my opinions and needs:
The Lumia 800 is the most gorgeous phone I have ever seen. Ever. This is the RAZR of 2004. The iPhone 4 of 2010.
I am strongly considering getting the blue.
The features that it does lack I do not care too much about. My Defy was 2GB internal, 2GB microSD card. Plenty of space left. I do not need a FFC.
I want a phone that looks good, is easy to pocket and hold, has a nice screen, wonderful battery life, is stable, and has a high end camera. The compromise I am making is in the app department with the ecosystem (no EA scrabble, do they have words with friends?) but I will live.
I am serious. So the Focus S with its AMOLED screen, 1GB RAM, and bigger storage is the best one out of the three to you?

I probably won't get any of the 3 due to the lack of 32GB (although you never know since I've just repurchased a Zune HD) but yes in my eyes the Focus S is the best one. 4" and 4.3" are the two screen sizes that suit me so the Lumia is too small and the Titan too big. Also Samsung phones tend to get better battery life and camera experience when compared to HTCs. FFC I can live without so I don't hold that too much against the Lumia 800 (but then again I'm not a reviewer).
Ultimately none are worth getting a new contract for when they're not significantly better than my Omnia 7 so I'll wait and see what comes in 2012.

Peew971 said:
I probably won't get any of the 3 due to the lack of 32GB (although you never know since I've just repurchased a Zune HD) but yes in my eyes the Focus S is the best one. 4" and 4.3" are the two screen sizes that suit me so the Lumia is too small and the Titan too big. Also Samsung phones tend to get better battery life and camera experience when compared to HTCs. FFC I can live without so I don't hold that too much against the Lumia 800 (but then again I'm not a reviewer).
Ultimately none are worth getting a new contract for when they're not significantly better than my Omnia 7 so I'll wait and see what comes in 2012.
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We are def in two different segments from that standpoint. I love my Defy. It is the most compact 3.7" phone I have ever seen. Smaller than an iPhone with a 3.5" screen (thicker but in all more compact). I used a SE X10 for a day and it was a bit of a struggle getting out of my jeans when sitting.
I really wanted an Omnia 7. But I knew WP was not for me then due to missing apps I needed. Then I read all the issues with Omnia and updates. So I would be hesitant to get the Flash. But I agree that there is not enough reason to go from Gen 1 to Gen 2. Its like the HTC wildfire/desire to wildfire s / desire s.
Call me superficial but the N9 had me at hello. When I read the Sea Ray rumour I could not wait. Unfortunately, I read the unlocked version may not be available until 2012

Peew971 said:
Sometimes I cannot tell if you're serious with some things you say. The Titan has a FFC and a much bigger screen. Same goes for the Focus S. The iPhone wasn't compared to another iPhone in the ecosystem unlike the Lumia 800. It's not like you had the choice of a 4" iPhone you can compare it to. In the same ecosystem the Lumia is missing features other phones have so to call best WP out there is questionable when this is coming from a tech website reviewer (if you want to believe that good for you). Unless like I said you consider Nokia Drive to be an amazing must have feature.
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A bigger screen isnt always a plus esp as they have the same resolution and thus the lumia has a higher pixle density and its got the clear black amoledscreen. Big screen = big ugly device that sits heavy in my pocket. I would not only say the lumia has a better screen than the titan i would say it smashes it to the ground. I drive a 7 seater hyundai is that a better car then my old Subaru Impreza i think not. Bigger isnt always better.

iPhone Envy

So I realize this thread might not go over well, but just looking for a little discussion to see where others stand.
I'm a die hard Googler. I currently own a Galaxy Nexus and Nexus 7. I couldn't live without Gmail and its advanced feature set. I use Google+, Maps, Calendar, Contacts, Photos, Music, etc. on a daily basis and I truly believe that Google's services blow Apple's crappy iCloud junk out of the water. iOS is a constrained OS that isn't scalable enough to satisfy my inner geek (I've used iPhones enough in the past to have learned this the hard way).
This brings me to the iPhone 5. Even though I know iOS isn't for me, and even though I can't stand Apple's direction with respect to mobile devices, I find the hardware extremely appealing. The level of engineering is exceptional, and the overall fit and finish results in a device that looks and feels like a work of art. The best analogy I can think of is that the iPhone is the Mercedes Benz while most Android handsets are your typical Honda or Toyota.
Am I the only one that is desperate for somebody to step up and make us a solid, well built, powerful Android device? It seems like Samsung is addicted to plastic, HTC insists on spoiling their otherwise solid hardware by bloating the whole experience with the crapware known as Sense, Motorola is intent on releasing 20 versions of the same funny looking device, and the rest are spinning their wheels. If somebody were to step up and offer an Android handset that had external appeal comparable to the iPhone, I am confident it would be the nail in the coffin for Apple's smartphone sales.
RANT COMPLETE

I hear what you're saying. While I want nothing to do with with the iphone, I could agree that maybe manufacturers could pay more attention to the form factor of most android devices. Don't get me wrong, I think my Nexus devices are gorgeous.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I agree with you 100 percent. When the iPhone 4 came out, it was hands down most sexiest looking phone out there. Their build quality feels amazing in the hand. I would have loved a phone that looked like that and ran android. Obviously the fragile ness is a downside as well as the early radio weakness aka death grip. The galaxy nexus was a huge step up in design for android and I think is still the best looking android device. I really hope manufacturers improve design. Even though functionality is great, I wasn't a fan of the SII or the SIII's design. The Sony Xperia phones are nice too but so far almost all android phones look the same. But damn is the Gnex sexy as hell especially when the screen is off.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

iPhones all look the same to me, since the first one, and personally I think the hardware/software of Nexus line devices are very well put together. I can agree that other manufacturer Androids tend to lack in solid design and hardware/software being well built for each other, but I strongly believe the Nexus is the solution for that issue. I feel no envy towards the iPhone 5.
Honest opinion without any need to bash on Apple.
Sent from my AOSP Android 4.1.1 Galaxy Nexus.

I have to admit, even though the iPhone 5 is more of the same from 4/4s it is a nice looking and high quality phone. Android OEM's would do well to step up this area. And personally I don't mind plastic phones if the quality of the plastic is good, and the fit and finish are pleasing. I haven't inspected the gs3 up close yet but have played with one several times. It is a nice phone and very comfy in the hand. But Samsung would do well to mix up its image a little and come out with a metal phone or two, albeit engineered to overcome the reception issues that are possible with metal phones. Really wish Nokia had jumped in the android boat. They had a handset for everybody.
need more high def music...

I do like the build quality of the iphone as well. But I've also been thrilled in every way, shape and form with the GNex. And hey, drop either of'm and I'd say the Nexus has a better chance of no damage.

Yes, the iphone5 is a beautiful phone as far as hardware is concerned. In my opinion, The only manufacturer who can keep up with appealing hardware at the moment is HTC (I like their One series designs, but to each their own).
On top of hardware designs, I believe Android is also lacking one other "feature" compared to the iPhone. I intentionally use the quotes, because I am referring to the lack of quality accessories that are available for us to choose from. Apple did well with their aftermarket electronic accessories because they were supported very well by other companies. Android can't really do this, because we have so many different form factors when it comes to hardware, and the major one being the location of the charging port on each phone. If Android standardized the location of the charging port, accessories would be much easier to engineer for Android. However, this may be an after-thought soon since we have NFC and there would be no need for a physical connection between accessories and the phone itself. The lack of NFC and the changed connector will be the downfall of the iPhone.
And lastly, my biggest gripe has to do with the quality control of Android manufacturers. I've personally only ever had Sammy Androids, but I gotta say, they suck at QC. My Droid Charge had sporadic radio issues, resulting in crackling voice calls regardless of radio updates. Now I'm on the Gnex and I've yet to see someone who has a FLAWLESS screen. Purple tinting, banding, burn-ins, low brightness issues...
Regardless, I am not going to support Apple at this day and age. Not a fan of their business practice, and I don't like being associated with the majority of iPhone user who aimlessly throw their money at a shiny new toy w/o knowing much about it.

sure the iphone is sexy that you cannot deny and that has always been how Apple does things. They put a great deal in designing an attractive product so that it appeals to the mass market who sometimes do not care about the functionality, performance, and hardware specs. This has helped them tremendously in getting people buying the phone because of its looks.
It is hard for the other manufacturers to compete against Apple since not only they have to compete in the industrial design but also compete in the hardware specs. I have to say, with non-iPhone devices, HTC seemed to be the most creative in terms of design with their latest One lines. They make one sexy phone that is packed with features. Unfortunately, it does not get as much attention as Samsung device because people are very locked into the whole Galaxy line of product as Samsung has already established its name and branding with it. In the Windows front, I think Nokia is doing a great job and it always has been quite good at designing hardware that looks good. But sadly for Nokia, Windows Phone is just not as popular as Android.

Not a fan of ANY apple OS nor am I a fan of their business practices, However their design and quality is extremely appealing. Jony Ivey has done an incredible job at apple and is probably the real factor behind their success, purely on aesthetics.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda app-developers app

I like the rectangular shape and rounded corners.:good:

I love android os but the Nokia devices aiming out look even better than the iPhone IMHO. The current Nokia hardware looks good enough I might have to try windows phone 8 instead of android for my next phone.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

If I could get an iPhone 5 running stock JB perfectly, I would switch in a second.
Having said that, anyone see Engadget's battery rundown test? 11 hours of battery looping a video with LTE on? I hope this sets the bar for future devices in the industry. I don't care that the iPhone did it, I just hope that other manufacturers follow suit.

Clyzm said:
If I could get an iPhone 5 running stock JB perfectly, I would switch in a second.
Having said that, anyone see Engadget's battery rundown test? 11 hours of battery looping a video with LTE on? I hope this sets the bar for future devices in the industry. I don't care that the iPhone did it, I just hope that other manufacturers follow suit.
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They'd get sued.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium

KIRF ODMs and homebrew devs never get sued, I don't know what you're talking about.

I agree with your entire statement smacman.
I have a Gnex and Nexus 7 and I'm a diehard Droid fan too. I have never owned an Apple product ever.. but....
They have the best fit and finish, build quality and polish by far. Also, the A6 CPU is the best in the market now. Did you see the Java scores? Like SunSpider Javascript.. Blazing fast.
I actually considered a switch to the dark side and get an iPhone5. They only thing holding me back was the lack of simultaneous voice and data on CDMA carriers, even with LTE.
http://betanews.com/2012/09/14/veri...till-doesnt-have-simultaneous-voice-and-data/
I hope the Android developers and manufactures step up.

The iPhone 5's hardware is definitely better looking than any other device IMHO but I can't stand iOS. I like the screen size as well.

cropythy said:
I love android os but the Nokia devices aiming out look even better than the iPhone IMHO. The current Nokia hardware looks good enough I might have to try windows phone 8 instead of android for my next phone.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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I had a couple wp7 phones and trust me, the os leaves a lot to be desired.
the app store is a barren wasteland, multitasking hardly works and little things left out (like being able to control separate volumes, like headset and ringtone, or ringtone and alarm)

OP, I agree with many of your points. I dislike Apple and I hate itunes even more but I am jealous of their systematic update process and dammit everything just works approach. My wife has an iPhone 4 so I get to play with one daily. Even apps that are available on both platforms seem more polished on iO6, I realize there are a number of reasons for this.
I too have a GN and an N7. I love the openness and customization of Android but frankly I'm getting way too busy with real life to keep tweaking and adjusting. And while fragmentation has become the big buzz word this year it has annoyed me since I purchased my first Android phone 2 years ago (Samsung Captivate). 5 android phones later and it's still a big problem. Meanwhile my wife's iPhone 4 which she purchased at the same time just got iO6.
Btw, my 2 "Nexus" devices aren't even running the same os (If you tell me to root my phone or buy a GSM Nexus I will yell at you very loudly while throwing rotten eggs).
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

http://android-sale.com/goophone-i5.html
get a goophone lol

I think it all comes down to one thing and one thing only. Personal Preference
I own an iPhone 4 (For work) and a GNex
I love my Android phone because of what it can do for me. I can tweak it, customize it, and know that I can do everything on it.
My iPhone? Meh, A big brick of glass in my opinion. It's broken the minute it gets dropped. But some people like what it has to offer. It's simplistic in the sense that things work (I've seen a few people say this in the thread) BUT the only reason it works is because you have to do things their way. (iTunes sync, 1 computer at a time, etc) There are a lot of things that fail when it comes to the iPhone that a lot of people hate. That's why they go elsewhere beyond Apple. The one thing you cannot deny though is how good Apples marketing is. They're extremely well known. Because of this they have a lot of loyal, blind, fans. Even though they don't know the specs, release dates, etc. They want what is essentially great marketing.
Now I personally believe that if you were to sit everyone down and hand them 3 phones (An iPhone, Windows phone and an Android phone) It would probably be pretty even across the board. Why? Personal Preference.
At the end of the day Apple is still going to be playing catch up to everyone else. Why isn't the iphone 5 an HD device? The resolution is sub par considering everything is HD now.
I'll end with that I'd much rather have a Windows phone that is truly simplistic in every sense of the word than another iPhone. For those of you who think that the iPhone 5 is a beautiful piece of great hardware? I point you to the HTC 8X, a Windows phone that's exceptionally beautiful.