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Am I the only one who feels the launch hardware is pretty mediocre compared to what is currently available for Android phones?
Almost all of the phones are using slower versions of the 1GHz Snapdragon, even Samsung is not using their Hummingbird processors.
I believe only one of the launch phones will include a front facing camera for video conferencing.
Then consider that same models won't be launched until late 2010 / early 2011, I don't believe this is a good start for WP7.
The software looks great though. Can't wait to see if it can be ported to my Nexus One!
I guess so when compared to the higher end Android smartphones, but WP7 has a small footprint. It doesn't require a lot to the same as Android and Iphone. If you can do the same with less, why add more?
Also Android fragmentation doesn't help this situation either. YOu may get a phone with a 1.5ghz processor, but because there are phone that have 528mhz processors there won't be any apps that fully utilize the hardware.
Mediocre launch hardware? You must be kidding. Let's recall Android's launch hardware. Also, you can't just look at raw specs, drivers and services play a huge role in real life. Galaxy S is the current spec champion, but I can bet that any single WP7 device will wipe the floor with it in terms of performance and stability.
And don't forget that you can buy pretty much any of these phones, they'll all be blazing fast. So if you need a gimmick like the front camera - go for it. The OEM just has no chance to screw up the phone in other areas.
And of course the manufacturers are holding back on the hardware in the first run of phones. They meet Microsofts minimum demands now and can put "new" hardware into models that they will release in spring. All companies are in it for the money and they would sell less phones if they put in the latest technology in the first models, ending up with higher costs for them and higher cost for the customer. And also risking having nothing new to come with for the coming months.
sometimes we assume too much.
The current HD2 FAILED to impress me with what was supposed to be a flagship package and op tiered device. Why? it was sorely due to extremely poor implementation of drivers and dlls of the stock ROM. But when flashed with cooked WM6.5 roms and tweaked extensively, HD2 is transformed into a speedy and smooth device.
So, IMO any lineup that sports 1GHz CPU should be relevant still at least for another 2 years and that's why WP7 debuted with those, they are optimized from the ground up to run on 1GHz processor and MS took a very long time to have it running as it is today....just wait for some shop demo units to arrive and try it out. seriously nothing beat the actual experience. I was lucky to try out a development unit in Seattle (a 600Mhz LG) two months ago and it changed my initial preception towards WP7. So a 1GHz device should be WP7 on drugs....and yes the footprints are small
Yeah maybe WinMo7 is tweaked for the current hardware and can do more with less but I'm still disapointed.
I got my HD in September last year, loved it, in December last year I got my HD2, the difference between the two was immence, perhaps that has spoilt me to the HD7 as I was expecting the same sort of spec/performance jump which there really isnt if the spec sheets are an indicator of performance..
But the point is, spec sheets aren't the only indicator of performance. You will see a performance boost compared to HD2 even with the same hardware inside. With HTC's crappy WM drivers it's easy.
vangrieg said:
But the point is, spec sheets aren't the only indicator of performance. You will see a performance boost compared to HD2 even with the same hardware inside. With HTC's crappy WM drivers it's easy.
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Maybe, but why still a 5mp camera and no more storage?
Remember, it's the optics, not the # of MP that makes a good camera. My former Droid's 5MP camera was horrible compared to my even older Blackberry Storm's 3.2MP camera.
And do we think that HTC have changed the optics on the HD7, or do we all agree that its just a recycled HD2?
Not that it matters, the HD7 is o2 exclusive and the Mozart is an Orange exclusive so I cant get either this year...
Exactly. Megapixels matter when you print posters. For everything else 5MP is more than enough. Moreover, the more megapixels you cram into a sensor of the same size, the poorer the quality. Usually you need to increase physical sensor size to get better quality pictures, otherwise all you get is tons of noise in less-than-perfect lighting (i.e. 99% of the time), or artifacts due to extreme noise reduction.
Trig0r said:
And do we think that HTC have changed the optics on the HD7, or do we all agree that its just a recycled HD2?
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It's not just optics, it also depends on the sensor. I don't know what they use in the new phones, but if they use the sensor recommended by MS it can only be an improvement. The megapixel count by itself doesn't reveal any information whatsoever about the camera quality.
You are flat out wrong. If you look at what was available at the time and the first Android phone then you will see that this WP7 launch is quite impressive.
The first Android phone was the HTC Dream, or the G1. This phone was released in Nov 2008.
3MP Camera no flash.
3.2" Screen
Wifi G
528MHz CPU
MiniUSB
There you go. These WP7 phones have similar hardware to the best phones on the market. It took a while before we started to see the likes of the Droid, then Nexus One, then Desire, then Droid X.
The only thing that people seem to complain about is the Apple-like restrictions. For me I love the hubs and the OS seems functional. I will take functional over fancy.
the spec is quite good, you cant expect a massive hardware leap when the hardware is already pushing limits. The one gripe i have is that all the uk handsets bar the lg (that looks so rubbish i wouldn't ever touch it) is th 8gb storage!!! really guys come on. though this will just give me an excuse to sell my fish tank and buy a new zune (also this will benefit my battery)
It is true drivers and optimization has a big role on the performance. BUT there is a big push on this being a gaming platform. How could the 8250 snapdragon, which has the Adreno 200 graphics even be fast enough. I have a Nexus one which is the same graphics, and the graphics are playble but no where near the performance of say the Adreno 205(Scorpion cpu) or the Hummingbird cpu. I really do hope i'm wrong but I dont think optimizations could do enough to make the Adreno 200 push out enough power.
Have you seen the game demos on Windows Phone 7? They made me forget what the chipset was. I'll take an efficient software implementation over bleeding edge hardware anyday because the software is immediately impacts the experience you have with a given device. I don't even notice the performance difference between a HTC EVO 4G and my Samsung Galaxy S Captivate in normal day to day use.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App
I agree that the launch hardware is quite mediocre, and seems to be mid-range Android hardware. There are a couple of interesting bits (Focus Super AMOLED screen, HTC's Dolby Surround Sound, LG's DLNA support), but they aren't really enough to cover for the fact that the storage options are half of other platforms (Android/iOS) or less, the processor is running a less battery-efficient CPU with a GPU 1/3 the speed of existing shipping devices (Desire, G2, iPhone 4), and most WP7 devices are missing new hardware peripherals such as front-facing cameras. It's really not a very competitive hardware response compared to what is already out on the market, and this is for a mobile OS that is emphasizing its ability as a gaming system.
People aren't really likely to notice the difference in CPU/GPU on a daily basis, but they'll certainly notice that they can only store half of the multimedia/game content they used to (and unlimited data plans are disappearing, so don't count on "cloud storage" to make up for the difference), they'll notice when their WP7 copy of Rage runs at half the framerate of their iOS buddies, and they'll notice peripherals that keep them from being able to use products (such as a front-facing camera, so that they can't video "Yahoo Messenger/Live Messenger" with their friends on Android devices or home systems).
I'm really hoping that MS actually got the hardware manufacturers attention, and that this was a first rushed pass to convert hardware. If that is the case, we should start seeing competitive "flagship" hardware trickle out over the next 3-4 months.
If this is all the hardware manufacturers were planning to do, then it's going to severely undermine the WP7 platform if we continue to get last year's hardware releases. Non-competitive hardware can hinder sales, which will slow app development, which may result in early calls that the platform has "failed" (and which will likely, ironically, result in manufacturers continuing to only commit second-rate hardware to the platform). That would be a really disappointing outcome for an OS platform that I think could genuinely be second-to-none with a few software updates.
I'm hoping the phones we have seen are a minimum spec reference from Microsoft and that the next batch will allow the OEM's to get a bit more creative.
I think many people are focusing on the camera bits for no reason. I don't mind the 5MP camera, I am not expecting DLSR quality out of a cell phone. And I agree on the part of the improved optics with a smaller sensor, resulting in better quality.
I have a Nexus One, I love it. But compared to the Galaxy phones, it is midrange hardware. Try running the Galaxy live wallpapers on Nexus One, it will grind to a halt. The Hummingbird chipset has greatly improved performance over Snapdragon.
What I don't understand is why WP7 isn't launched on top tier hardware. I know the hardware will improve over time, but why are vendors brining out dated WP7 hardware when they are releasing Android hardware that exceeds WP7 specs.
I don't think the comparison to the Android launch is appropriate. When Android was launched, there was really only one player - Apple. Pretty much any hardware you put out there would be better than a WM6 phone, except HD2. The expectations were not nearly as high, as no one expected Android to be the Apple killer.
People expect WP7 to be the Apple killer. But they are pushing out hardware that doesn't even compare to Android?
lol, well i made a dumb mistake, If we are to believe engadget then at least the HD7 is using the MSM8250. Which is different than the QSD8250 of the nexus one. The msm8250 does contain the newer adreno 205 gpu in it. So we will see a decent jump in graphics. Initial tests are around the power of the hummingbird gpu. Some tests it beats it at least. So thats some good news.
Granted I haven't had my hand on the new Samsung Galaxy SII but looking at (I hate to say engadget review on the hardware) I think this would be an ultimate flagship design for wp7 (I know the processor hasn't been approved) but man that device looks nice and I have been very happy with my focus for a while now I am wanting this bad boy (am I bad I have had an HTC for the last 6yrs).
Mental diarrhea sprayed onto an XDA post. Nice work!
dreaming is not diarrhea lol
The Os performs great with the current standards if they are going to make a tiered version (which they will if Nokia intends on making a low cost wp7) why not make a high dollar one?
Yes its android its gud
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Actually, watching the video on Engadget, it still lags (Android I mean)...
Yes, GS2 with WP7 FTW!
I think GS2 is currently the ultimate phone.
amtrakcn said:
Yes, GS2 with WP7 FTW!
I think GS2 is currently the ultimate phone.
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Yeah, the specs are nice...but it's ugly, as was the Galaxy S
Why can't the do a design like the Galaxy S had in the Gorgio Armani edition? Or something like the SE X10?
The Omnia7 is the only Samsung high-end phone that looks good (could be better but at least it has edges and isn't rounded everywhere).
skycamefalling said:
Yeah, the specs are nice...but it's ugly, as was the Galaxy S
Why can't the do a design like the Galaxy S had in the Gorgio Armani edition? Or something like the SE X10?
The Omnia7 is the only Samsung high-end phone that looks good (could be better but at least it has edges and isn't rounded everywhere).
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So you like Captivate
amtrakcn said:
So you like Captivate
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Yeah, that one looks like the Armani Edition -really nice. I may have ended up with Android when the Galaxy S in Austria looked like this. So I waited for a decent phone and finally ended up with the Omnia7...it has been a good decision after all
kapanak said:
Actually, watching the video on Engadget, it still lags (Android I mean)...
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if you notice, he's doing a full screen screen capture, while using the camera, with sound, in720p, I wouldn't call that lag, I'd call it awesome.
ohgood said:
if you notice, he's doing a full screen screen capture, while using the camera, with sound, in720p, I wouldn't call that lag, I'd call it awesome.
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I think he means in normal operations the lag is there. Which it is, let's be real. Android lags, till google changes their h/w graphics acceleration, that won't be changing
That said, I was thinking that wp7 may need a few flagship dual cores just to make itself viable for users. Many will say look at android - dual core. Look at apple iphone - dual core [soon] and wp7 no...
I think by January there needs to be dual core optimized code and ASAP. As far as the G II, the screen looks amazing. Samoled has spoiled me in the focus and the (god awful) dvp. So I may consider that as an option especially if there are devs for samsung platform.
domineus said:
I think he means in normal operations the lag is there. Which it is, let's be real. Android lags, till google changes their h/w graphics acceleration, that won't be changing
That said, I was thinking that wp7 may need a few flagship dual cores just to make itself viable for users. Many will say look at android - dual core. Look at apple iphone - dual core [soon] and wp7 no...
I think by January there needs to be dual core optimized code and ASAP. As far as the G II, the screen looks amazing. Samoled has spoiled me in the focus and the (god awful) dvp. So I may consider that as an option especially if there are devs for samsung platform.
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What I was saying/hinting in order to make a statement (which don't get me wrong everyone including my girl that I have let play with my wp7 want one and thats coming from iphone/android). But at the gym last night there was a guy with a attrix with a wp7 skin and I slapped him (silly foul for fun) because he was false claiming lol (forgive me its Friday). But really they need a wow factor phone because basically alot of people just buy for specs I hate to say (like people @ the gym I workout at) all they talk about is my phone has a 5-8mp camera and a dual processor blah blah, and I just said my phone works and quite well.
domineus said:
I think he means in normal operations the lag is there. Which it is, let's be real. Android lags, till google changes their h/w graphics acceleration, that won't be changing
That said, I was thinking that wp7 may need a few flagship dual cores just to make itself viable for users. Many will say look at android - dual core. Look at apple iphone - dual core [soon] and wp7 no...
I think by January there needs to be dual core optimized code and ASAP. As far as the G II, the screen looks amazing. Samoled has spoiled me in the focus and the (god awful) dvp. So I may consider that as an option especially if there are devs for samsung platform.
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ahhhhh, ok i see it! I wonder if that is a beta hardware, or what version software its running. oddly, I haven't used a ota update or stock rom since the 1.x days. lag is something I just haven't experienced since then... and it puzzles me when I see so many commnets about it really.,
Lag has been the signature of Samsung Galaxy S. It remains to be seen that if S2 can improve on that. The reasons are two folds:
1. The Android OS's own problem (lack of hardware accel and poor garbage collection)
2. Samsung's insistence of using its antiquated RFS file system which is significantly worse than the common ext2 or 4 file system.
And there is really on dual-core support in Android OS in the immediate future. The Dalvik VM used in Android is single core only. Currently only the tablet OS, Honeycomb, supports dual-core.
In the end, what a waste of that beautiful hardware!
Nice work。。。。
Would love this with WP7.
You guys should read the review. No lag, only sign of it is when doing a expose with fully loaded home screens. Even then it was barely noticeable.
Browsing was smooth on flash heavy sites. Read the entire review and watch the videos.
vetvito said:
You guys should read the review. No lag, only sign of it is when doing a expose with fully loaded home screens. Even then it was barely noticeable.
Browsing was smooth on flash heavy sites. Read the entire review and watch the videos.
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we did hence the discussion about the LAG. Look I like the specs myself because they would make any developer salivate and want to at least test it for a spell - myself included. But even still, lag is lag and it's there.
We can call out all of wp inconsistencies till the cow comes home but do it to android its a fight. It's a pretty rational discussion about the SII and there have been no flames. Us, just like you, have watched the video and read the reviews. Let's not assume no one hasn't
And there is really on dual-core support in Android OS in the immediate future. The Dalvik VM used in Android is single core only. Currently only the tablet OS, Honeycomb, supports dual-core.
In the end, what a waste of that beautiful hardware!
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Technically most android d/cs...
for the moment again until something at android changes
A slight jerk one time, is that considered lag?
vetvito said:
You guys should read the review. No lag, only sign of it is when doing a expose with fully loaded home screens. Even then it was barely noticeable.
Browsing was smooth on flash heavy sites. Read the entire review and watch the videos.
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My hd7 is lagy and inernet browsing is pain full with ie ****
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Processor
The Complaint:
1.2 GHz isn't 1.5
The chip comes with the outdated SGX540 GPU
The Possible Reason:
The s2 Exynos apparently doesn't work well with LTE right now. Personally, I'd prefer LTE latency to HSPA+ with a marginally faster processor.
The GPU does suck, but unfortunately there aren't really any other chipsets available right now offering something better for LTE.
And keep in mind, the OMAP 4460 is BRAND NEW. This is not the same OMAP 4430 that has been in other phones to date. The clock speed was tuned down to 1.2 GHz in order to avoid delays when the 1.5 speeds were not stable.
While the GPU may suck, apparently the OMAP 4460 has some nice features in the way of media/video processing, which was behind Google's decision to go with that chipset.
Update: That media/video processing feature is called the IVA 3 -- it is a hw video decoder/encoder that supports [email protected] for h.264, MPEG-4, and h.263, VP8, etc. In essence, it allows for low power consumption while playing back HD quality video (and this makes a lot more sense as to why Google decided to go with OMAP for their new 720p resolution device). More info: http:// blog . webmproject . org/2010/10/demo-of-webm-running-on-ti-omap-4.html
Camera
The Complaint:
5 MP isn't 8
Sample pictures aren't mind-blowing
The Possible Reason:
Instant shutter and panoramic photos.
The Galaxy Nexus takes photos REALLY quickly, and the panoramic photo capability depends on that. This means the phone needs both a fast lens (search Wikipedia for "Lens speed") and likely a sensor capable of operating at those speeds. It's quite possible that they had to sacrifice in MP in order to get those speeds.
So yes, the camera is not as "good" as other phones might have, but the marginal decrease might be what's allowing it to run circles around other cameras in photo speed and generate some impressive panoramas.
Those seem to be the two major complaints right now. Also, I admit my hardware knowledge isn't as in depth as some others on xda, so I welcome any additional info. Thoughts?
For me it would be the Camera and lack of SD card.
I can deal with 5MP if it also had better image stabilization. The pics I have seen were not sharp. However, the fast AF and panoramic mode are bad ass.
The lack of a SD card is just annoying. As a developer, it would be nice to have this support.
Based on previous Nexus devices (One and S) i think NO see a
FM radio. Too bad...
The lack of SD card is kinda annoying.
The only two "sub-par" items that were listed is rather "meh." You will never tell the difference of 300Mhz. You can run your benchmark tools, but, user experience is nil.
Camera MP doesn't mean anything if the phone can't take decent pictures at all. If you're worried about anything over 5MP, then, you should carry a real camera.
For an FM radio... if it's lacking the hardware.... Tune In Radio app is a sweet replacement.
The Nexus phones sets the standard for all smartphones. This phone seems to be "above-par" to what is currently out there.
My gripes:
1. Way too close to the SGSII form factor. I found the SGSII to be insanely uncomfortable for me. It's far too thin to be so wide.
2. No SD card. Instant fail for me. It's not that the built-in memory isn't enough, it's that Samsung has a history of Nexus devices with failed memory and no way to fix it because there isn't an SD slot.
3. Samsung's total plastic body builds are lightweight, sure, but they feel like cheap pieces of throwaway junk. The Amaze, IMO, makes the SGSII feel like a chump (for reference, I don't use most HTC devices due to Sense, I prefer stock software but I love HTC's build quality).
4. It's made by Samsung. Again.
bfspider said:
If you're worried about anything over 5MP, then, you should carry a real camera.
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Couldn't agree more.
JaiaV said:
My gripes:
1. Way too close to the SGSII form factor. I found the SGSII to be insanely uncomfortable for me. It's far too thin to be so wide.
2. No SD card. Instant fail for me. It's not that the built-in memory isn't enough, it's that Samsung has a history of Nexus devices with failed memory and no way to fix it because there isn't an SD slot.
3. Samsung's total plastic body builds are lightweight, sure, but they feel like cheap pieces of throwaway junk. The Amaze, IMO, makes the SGSII feel like a chump (for reference, I don't use most HTC devices due to Sense, I prefer stock software but I love HTC's build quality).
4. It's made by Samsung. Again.
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#3 has been connected with a metal chassis. If you take a look around some of the reviews, a few sites notice that difference.
kromem said:
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Those seem to be the two major complaints right now. Also, I admit my hardware knowledge isn't as in depth as some others on xda, so I welcome any additional info. Thoughts?
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the device is meant for DEVELOPERS, not normal folks basically, that was probably their mentality
thus all the lack of high tech stuff, except for the screen
bfspider said:
#3 has been connected with a metal chassis. If you take a look around some of the reviews, a few sites notice that difference.
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Most of them do have some internal metal chassis that acts like a skeleton of sorts, if I am not mistaken. That doesn't stop them from feeling like cheap pieces of trash.
I won't be able to jog faster with this phone, as it's slightly bigger and heavier than S2.
Galaxy S II weight = 116 grams
Galaxy Nexus weight = 135 grams
AllGamer said:
the device is meant for DEVELOPERS, not normal folks basically, that was probably their mentality
thus all the lack of high tech stuff, except for the screen
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If anything, that makes less sense. Normal people don't even know what OMAP or a SGX540 is.
And I kind of meant thoughts on whether or not my reasoning relating to the hardware choices seemed sound.
kromem said:
I've been seeing a lot of blowback on what many are considering sub-par specs for the Galaxy Nexus. I'm not sure it deserves as much criticism as it's getting.
Processor
The Complaint:
1.2 GHz isn't 1.5
The chip comes with the outdated SGX540 GPU
..snipped..
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Ha even the 540 is upgrade for me, I'm still using the OG Droid with it's SGX530 toting OMAP3 chip. So a dual core OMAP4 is a vast upgrade for me.
Plus the lack of an SD card is no big deal for me...16GB of onboard storage is more than enough for me, meaning it doesn't really need an SD card as much as my Droid does.
For a while, I was sort of disappointed with a couple of the GN's specs, but I'm now very excited. Let me address the specs in question:
1. GPU : The GPU is the Nov 2007 SGX540 while the current ringleader is the Jan 2009 SGX543MP2. The difference is that the GN's GPU is clocked at a speedy 384 MHz, almost double that of the 200 MHz clock speed of the SGX543MP2. With that knowledge, plus the fact that I won't be playing console-quality games on a touchscreen, I was pretty much satisfied.
2. CPU : I first cringed when I heard that the GN was going to have a Ti-OMAP processor instead of the Exynos, but I was sort of happy when I learned it might be the OMAP4470, a beast of a phone. Then I checked Wikipedia, and was disappointed to learn the 4470 is coming out in Q2 2012, meaning I would have to settle with the lesser version. I'm still uneasy about this aspect, but the fact that Google has chose this processor specifically inclines me to think it will be optimized thoroughly. Just look at the iPhone4 vs the iPhone4S; a dual-core, plus a beefed up GPU don't make the phone any faster, as the OS has been perfectly coded to the hardware already. The GHz make no difference in real life, aside for half a second. Besides, more ICS devices are coming up according to Black_man_x, with AT&T leading in specs for now (the GSMarena Nexus Specs leak is probably that phone) so the best phone is perpetually going to be "right around the corner".
3. Camera: I knew this was going to be a 5MP shooter, as I predicted Google would push Google+ and instant upload with this model, which allows unlimited storage to 5MP photos. The camera is also hard coded to the CPU, which is why you get 1080p on a 5MP camera, which was previously unheard of (at least to me). Some 8MP still can't even do 1080p, resting at 720p only. Plus you get awesome features such as continuous exposure and photo capture while recording.
4. No SDCard slot: I never use microSD's so this isn't a problem for me. I can see how it would affect others though. I prefer internal storage over anything, as it's fast and secure. I just need to keep a NANDroid at all times on the device though
Honestly, everything else was amazing. The LED notification totally surprised me, as I thought it was going to be like the Epic's (a lame blue light at the top). I love the form factor and size, and I'm personally going to buy the HSPA+ model. I hate CDMA with a burning passion, and T-Mobile has got a new prepaid $30 5GB Unlimited Plan with 100 Mins and Unltd Texts that I can abuse. Whenever I feel like it, I can hop on over to AT&T, switch to 3 in the UK when I travel, or go with a local carrier. I made the mistake of buying the Nexus One a couple of months before the Nexus S landed, not going to make the same mistake again
where has it been confirmed the prime will ship with the 4460?
edit: aaaaand here's my answer:
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/24529-ti-confirms-omap-4460-is-in-nexus-galaxy
eric b
IMO nothing is wrong with the Camera, plus by now everyone should know that Megapixels don't mean a damn thing -_- this camera is actually pretty damn beast.
i think you misunderstand lens speed. the aperture of the lens for this camera really shouldn't be affected by the sensor. perhaps you mean sensor speed.
people still had the same complains with the NS...........I doubt we will be seeing any Nexus device jump as far ahead as the N1 did
For all those complaining about the lack of SD card slot I'm guessing you don't have a Honeycomb tablet with an SD card slot. Even with the latest Honeycomb update that came out about a month ago Google still doesn't have the SD card working like most expect. It is nothing like an SD card under Gingerbread. I believe they want people to use a new storage API to interact with the SD card so many apps don't see it or consider it read-only. Applications using the new storage API are read/write. It's a change and I think many existing Froyo/Gingerbread era apps will need to be updated for Ice Cream Sandwich.
That said my guess is Google still hasn't worked out these kinks with SD cards for early Ice Cream Sandwich either. Therefore going with all internal storage and no SD card option avoids the problem and will provide the best user experience. Motorola on the other hand has taken a beating from Xoom owners like myself that waited 6 months for any kind of SD card support and even then found it lacking.
The lack the sd card is a bit of a downer, if samsung goes the same route with the partitions as they did on the sgs2 then we'll only have 11.5gb of free space left on the sdcard.
wat no sd card? blasphemy!
After seeing all the specs on this phone, and some hands on video, I am pretty dissapointed with the wait. There are phones out now that pretty much rival all aspects of the Nexus - except the ICS. In a month or so, ICS will be available to the the other phones. When it is, it will put the Nexus on par with them (or a notch below).
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.
Ics. Duh.
I invented cyberspace. You're trespassing.
Why ?
Because of the ****ty carrier update system.
Personally Id by an Amaze 4g today if the stupid piece of crap carrier and HTC werent in the way of me getting Android 4.0. As it stands pretty much the only way you get to use it is by getting a GN or waiting 2-3 months for decent roms to come out.
Again. Since Google refuses to mandate min. time frames for carrier/OEM updates this means noone has a clue when they can get a major OS update. Making GN the only choice for months.
The HD screen is the second biggest factor , I havent seen any comparison to a QHD screen so dont know if its as big a deal as Im making it out to be.
The display, the OS, and the fact that it's a Nexus device. Win/Win/Win.
For me it's not having an annoying overlay. Touchwiz and Sense are ok, but I'd much rather have vanilla Android.
randypurcz said:
After seeing all the specs on this phone, and some hands on video, I am pretty dissapointed with the wait. There are phones out now that pretty much rival all aspects of the Nexus - except the ICS. In a month or so, ICS will be available to the the other phones. When it is, it will put the Nexus on par with them (or a notch below).
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.
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The Nexus line is not suppose to be "top of the line" spec phones.
But to answer your question, the Galaxy Nexus comes with ICS, that's why everyone wants it.
To put things into perspective. I bought my G2x a few month ago, and it shipped with Froyo, with a promised update to Gingerbread. This was many, many months after Gingerbread was released.
Typically, phones won't see the latest android OS a few month after the OS has been announced. So if you want the latest OS, you need to go with a Nexus device.
1.) ICS
2.) Likely to have a huge developer base
3.) Hardware fairly optimized for software (and according to: http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/17/2568348/galaxy-nexus-review , its blazing fast)
4.) 720p HD Screen (again according to the above link and also http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/17/galaxy-nexus-review-part-1-hardware-overview-video/ although the screen is pentile, it still is amazing)
5.) Vanilla Android
6.) ???
7.) Profit
Now, I can see why some people might not want to buy this phone because of the following three reasons:
1.) Low-standard GPU - could become obsoleted fairly quickly (really old GPU) and I highly doubt a lot of games in the future could run on this device
2.) Although the hardware is fast now, in a few months from now it may not be as fast in comparison to other devices. (Remember CES 2011 with the introduction of dual core smartphones? From then on, the single core processor phones were essentially obsoleted + it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones later this year - http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/)
3.) The battery life may not be great with this phone
randypurcz said:
Whats all the hype about ? It seems like it is all around ICS, and a device we cannot yet get our hands on.
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that's exactly what it is a Developer reference phone for ICS
that's why you no longer see the state of the art hardware included anymore since Nexus S
I see all your points.
I guess I think Google/Samsung/Verizon, just dragged thier feet too long on getting it to market IMO. I think higher spec phones are just months away, so the only thing cutting edge here is ICS. Just my opinion.
Now, I do have the Nexus on the way, but I am just not going to be sleepless over it. I just sold my Galaxy Note (too big to function as a phone for me, but one hell of an information device), but I will always wonder how it would have performed with ICS versus GB.
mohitrocks said:
1.) Low-standard GPU - could become obsoleted fairly quickly (really old GPU) and I highly doubt a lot of games in the future could run on this device
2.) Although the hardware is fast now, in a few months from now it may not be as fast in comparison to other devices. (Remember CES 2011 with the introduction of dual core smartphones? From then on, the single core processor phones were essentially obsoleted + it is rumoured that there will be quad core phones later this year - http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/11/15/r...ndroid-4-0-with-a-2-5ghz-quad-core-processor/)
3.) The battery life may not be great with this phone
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hmmm... methinks you didn't give your cons much thought as they all contradict. each other.
oilfighter said:
The Nexus line is not suppose to be "top of the line" spec phones.
But to answer your question, the Galaxy Nexus comes with ICS, that's why everyone wants it.
To put things into perspective. I bought my G2x a few month ago, and it shipped with Froyo, with a promised update to Gingerbread. This was many, many months after Gingerbread was released.
Typically, phones won't see the latest android OS a few month after the OS has been announced. So if you want the latest OS, you need to go with a Nexus device.
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Click to collapse
I think the nexus phones are developer phones so are set at being what google expect the average phone to be in the middle ics lifetime. After all theres no point developing on a phone when no other phone comes close to the specs. The only benefit really is it gets the latest android first rather than waiting for manufacturer releases or even later for mobile operator releases.
Personally I'm still undecided and also considering the RAZR or waiting to see what comes out in the next few months. There is no phone which makes me think I must have it at all costs at the moment. SGS2 is meh, HTC XE looks nice but doesn't excite, only RAZR and Nexus I'm considering though I'd consider the rezound if it was available in the uk.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
pukemon said:
hmmm... methinks you didn't give your cons much thought as they all contradict. each other.
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How so? I don't believe I did.
---------- Post added at 03:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:54 AM ----------
gbroon said:
I think the nexus phones are developer phones so are set at being what google expect the average phone to be in the middle ics lifetime. After all theres no point developing on a phone when no other phone comes close to the specs. The only benefit really is it gets the latest android first rather than waiting for manufacturer releases or even later for mobile operator releases.
Personally I'm still undecided and also considering the RAZR or waiting to see what comes out in the next few months. There is no phone which makes me think I must have it at all costs at the moment. SGS2 is meh, HTC XE looks nice but doesn't excite, only RAZR and Nexus I'm considering though I'd consider the rezound if it was available in the uk.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
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Click to collapse
I wouldn't go for the RAZR, as many reviews I have seen put it on a bad place compared to the Nexus (E.g. www.theverge.com)
For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!
Until the quad cores come out much later in 2012 the galaxy nexus will mostly be top dog. The next batch of devices will all be dual core 1.5ish ghz, some will get some version of 720p screens some will not. We should see that clear through summer until the galaxy hd/3.
That's a pretty good run for a device add to it the google experience and well it should hold its own for two years easily. IMO the only people getting screwed are the people buying the gs2 now.
As long add it's out before the end of January on AT&T (unlikely) I'll buy the galaxy nexus otherwise I'll wait for summer.
Well now it looks like the GS2 has already been ported, so maybe months of wait will be reduced to weeks to get a usable ICS rom on some of the better devices. Cancelled my preorder(Nexus) and am thinking of purchasing another Note !
STi489 said:
For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!
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Click to collapse
I'd like to refer you to here where they go beyond speculation and actually have the device so aren't pulling things out of thin air like 99% of the people here.
For people who tl;dr:
"Before we received the device, what troubled us was the idea of a last-generation GPU pushing 1280×720 pixels of the Galaxy Nexus’ screen — we can now say that fear is unfounded. We picked up and played a few games of Wind-up Knight and found it performed better in its native resolution than did the Motorola RAZR at 960×540. The RAZR uses the same GPU at a slightly slower speed, but has 40% fewer pixels. Google has done some serious tweaking to the graphics drivers to achieve such amazing results."
Just like how we don't compare ATI and Nvidia cards by their GFLOP's nor triangles per second, we should keep in mind that performance is dependant on both hardware and drivers - and varies with games just as some games naturally play better with Nvidia cards and some perform better with ATI/AMD cards. Drivers make a world of difference. Looks like Google/PowerVR/TI have done their job.
STi489 said:
For me it's the screen and ICS ....Why the crappy gpu and only 5meg camera and sub par audio is beyond me.....I don't play many games but the gpu in the s2 woulda been nice..I sold my Vibrant and need a phone now might not wait and just get gs2..The gpu in the nexus is very dissapointing ...Why the newer high end device would be speced lower than the older s2 is just dumb imo.
I did find a store that imports them and is expected the 28th for $749 shipped......The gs2 will cost me $444 local tmo.....Decisions Decisions!
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Click to collapse
Once again, MP means jack **** EXCEPT picture size. Do your research before you comment. As some comparisons have said its only a little below the iPhone 4s in quality, and guess what? That's not due to MP.
Sent from my Xoom using xda premium
That review was pretty good.
Doesn't it bother you? I really want the Note 2, but to think devices are shipped now with SnapDragon S4 Pro, 4 cores A15, 28NM with Adreno 320, and soon Exynox 5 Dual, also A15, 32NM and Mali-T604 really bother me. This is why I've waited for HTC's phablet, but it wasn't released yesterday
What do you think? I know the Note 2 has great performance, but soon others will have better technology... And I'm going to buy mine (if I'll buy) on December - right before CES 2013!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(GPU)
i'm going back and forth between getting the note 2 and waiting a phone with the exynos 5250/new mali gpu.
I feel like my galaxy nexus is already as fast as it can possibly get, and I'm sure the note 2 is even faster. I don't think I will need the newer tech at least for my use I won't
Sent from my Verizon Nexus
There will always be something better,in some way, than whatever you have/buy.
The note 2 is still overall the best device for me so I'm getting it.
Sent from my GT-N7000 using XDA Premium HD app
you will keep waiting that way. once the exynos 5 dualcore is there you will be waiting for the quadcore version. something better is always around the corner. you say you will buy a new phone in december, so just come back in december, choose the phone that is best for you at that moment, and buy it.
DubelBoom said:
Doesn't it bother you? I really want the Note 2, but to think devices are shipped now with SnapDragon S4 Pro, 4 cores A15, 28NM with Adreno 320, and soon Exynox 5 Dual, also A15, 32NM and Mali-T604 really bother me. This is why I've waited for HTC's phablet, but it wasn't released yesterday
What do you think? I know the Note 2 has great performance, but soon others will have better technology... And I'm going to buy mine (if I'll buy) on December - right before CES 2013!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_(GPU)
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Click to collapse
In the tech world, there's always going to be the next big thing. How long should one wait is a matter of personal preference. For me, I get excited by new technology, but I always shop behind the curve, to get the best possible deal.
Here, in the US, the carriers make us sign contracts in return for subsidized pricing. So a $600-$800 phone is sold to us for $200-$300. After a few months, price drops of $50-$100 are very common. That is the time when I buy.
My first smartphone (EVO 4G) was released in April 2010 for $200. I purchased mine in Dec. 2010 for $100. Was the phone old? Sure, but did I care? No. It worked just fine, and a year later (Nov. 2011) I scored a Photon (released in April 2011) on Cragslist.
I am hoping the Note II gets released soon (October) so I can buy it in Dec./Jan. It is rumored to be around $250-$300 and by waiting a few months I can hopefully save a few $$.
It will still work and be more powerful than most devices on the market. Even if HTC, LG and others come out with a super-phone with the QC S4, it doesn't render the Note II obsolete.
So what if the HTC Quad can beat the Note II by a few points in some benchmark.
The Note has far more compelling features for me. As long as it can do the work, I don't care how fast or slow my device is. And with that 3000 maH battery, I don't foresee a problem in device usage time either.
If youre gonna have the phone a long time, 2 year + then i think you should wait and buy the top of the line.
If you change phone every year or more dont worry.. Just buy a new when a killerphone arrive
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda app-developers app
The Note II will be a powerhouse for years, and by they time it isn't you'll already have moved on to something else.
you are all right about there will always be a newer technology around the corner, but the snapdragon S4 Pro is already here!!
i don't care about the benchmarks, i only want games to work smooth. on my Desire HD games get stuck and lag, so i want top line phone, so i could keep it for about 2 years.
sadly, im not old enough to decide by my self to sell and by a new phone, if i was, every year i would sell my current phone (in israel) and by a new one at the USA. this way i save a lot of money
the problem with the Mali-400MP is that its old... it is the GPU on the S2!!! i dont want to buy technology from more than a year ago!
GPUs and CPUs have already progressed to the point where the law of diminishing returns is starting to take effect in the realm of mobile phones. You can only push so many pixels onto a handheld screen before our eyes can't tell the difference, and the Android OS currently only needs a certain amount of gflops to do what it needs to do smoothly. I don't play PC-level demanding games on my phone, otherwise I would think differently - but right now, I'm mostly just concerned about browser preformance and the OS running without lag even with all of the widgets and programs that I need running in the background. I think the Galaxy Note II should be able to accomplish that easily. I, too, would like to see a GPU better than the Mali-400MP in the SGN2, but as long as it can handle android games and render webpages quickly, then I don't think it should be a big factor in your decision.
I think improvements in battery life, RAM, and screen are mainly what I'm looking for in this generation of phones. For the Galaxy Note II, the first two were substantially improved so I'm fairly content with that. I just don't see any better alternatives out there. A possible alternative would be the HTC 5" phone which is going to be announced soon, but I don't know all of the details on that yet. I'm not expecting much out of that phone though because, while HTC has good build quality and specs, they have been going down the path of sacrificing battery life, locking bootloaders, no SD-card, no removable battery, etc... The Galaxy Note II doesn't have these problems, and the one shortcoming (it doesn't have a Exynos 5 Dual with a Mali-T604) isn't really that big of a deal to me.
TL;DR: The SGN2 is probably the best phone you can get in the near future if you don't play extremely graphically-intensive games on your phone.
I don't play a lot of heavy games as Modern Combat 3, Asphalt 6 etc. but, when I play these games I want them to work smooth! And I'm not sure the Mali-400MP could do it in a year from now.
The new Mali-T604 will have OpenGL ES 3.0 support (Mali-400MP only supports up to 2.0). Does anyone how much this will affect performance for later releases? I would imagine that the SGN2 would still be able to play 99% of games released within the 2 years with a decent frame rate.
I don't really like playing games on my phone because the interface is holding it back in my opinion. Well, at least for FPS and anything that requires precision and more than 2 buttons.
Well my adreno 205 rage.
I can play with adreno 205 all 2012 games..
Nova 3 without problems,Max Payne without any problems..
RobyRc said:
Well my adreno 205 rage.
I can play with adreno 205 all 2012 games..
Nova 3 without problems,Max Payne without any problems..
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my phone also have Adreno 205, and its terrible! games like Jetpack Joyride and Granny Smith are laggy..
DubelBoom said:
I don't play a lot of heavy games as Modern Combat 3, Asphalt 6 etc. but, when I play these games I want them to work smooth! And I'm not sure the Mali-400MP could do it in a year from now.
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Click to collapse
Who knows what we are doing a year from now.
Faster CPUs don't mean that much right now in some ways, because Android doesn't probably take advantage of multithreading.
It's quite possible that a year from now, threading is improved, and we see a serious performance increase with the same hardware.
Also notice this review:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/09/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-hands-on-bigger-got-better/
specifically this quote:
The biggest improvement, though, is the phone’s performance. It absolutely flies, and it’s incredibly smooth. Whether that’s due to the 1.6GHz quad-core Exynos processor or simply the addition of Jelly Bean (Android 4.1) we don’t know, but I tried hard to make it stutter and lag, and I couldn’t.
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This comes from a guy who said the Note was 'very not good', partially due to its lag.
You can be sure he went into the Note 2 determined to prove he's still right and the Note concept still sucks.
The fact that he failed is pretty encouraging.
- Frank
ChodTheWacko said:
Who knows what we are doing a year from now.
Faster CPUs don't mean that much right now in some ways, because Android doesn't probably take advantage of multithreading.
It's quite possible that a year from now, threading is improved, and we see a serious performance increase with the same hardware.
Also notice this review:
http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2012/09/samsung-galaxy-note-ii-hands-on-bigger-got-better/
specifically this quote:
This comes from a guy who said the Note was 'very not good', partially due to its lag.
You can be sure he went into the Note 2 determined to prove he's still right and the Note concept still sucks.
The fact that he failed is pretty encouraging.
- Frank
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I know its great, and the CPU is awesome, no complains. My problem is the GPU, its.......old!
But everything always gonna look old to you unless you are Apple fanboy/girl. I don't mean that negatively, but let's face it. By the time SoC manufacturor announce new chip, a phone manufacturor have to wait a few months to get their hand on the chip, then a few months later, engineering unit is out. By the time the production unit hit the shelf then that is like half a year already, by then another SoC company gonna announce something new. If all the SoC and phone manufacturors act like Apple and keep everything secret then may be you won't feel that way but that's simply because you are kept in the dark.
someone0 said:
But everything always gonna look old to you unless you are Apple fanboy/girl. I don't mean that negatively, but let's face it. By the time SoC manufacturor announce new chip, a phone manufacturor have to wait a few months to get their hand on the chip, then a few months later, engineering unit is out. By the time the production unit hit the shelf then that is like half a year already, by then another SoC company gonna announce something new. If all the SoC and phone manufacturors act like Apple and keep everything secret then may be you won't feel that way but that's simply because you are kept in the dark.
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I know, but the Mali-400MP was shipped with the Galaxy S2! This is very old in "smartphones years".
Man you talk about the mali400 being old like it experienced the great depression. How depressing. It is still a nice and widely supported gpu. The adreno320 is prbably better but doesnt get as much support which would be a bummer for the gamers. If you really want to wait for the t604 find somewhere else to talk and whine about that. The mali is coming whether you like it or not and i am quite sure many are happy with the decision.
need more high def music...
DubelBoom said:
I know, but the Mali-400MP was shipped with the Galaxy S2! This is very old in "smartphones years".
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It it concerns you that much, I don't know what to tell you. Just don't get the Note I guess.
I don't think anyone can prove/disprove theories on how the Note 2 will be in the future.
- Frank