since verizon has been playing stupid with us over how they changed the operating system, this may have caused some problems like it has for me with my ideas for porting operating systems to the phone. but i do know a person who has been working in verizon for quite some time and may be able to get some answers. i'll post the answers here as soon as i get them. hope this helps! (Honestly, I don't understand why they don't tell us what we want to know even though they've basically dropped the phone. And, my source person is my friends dad so i may have better chances of getting information than other people who tried things like this in the past.)
Related
You can skip to the actual question below if you do not want to read.
I am what you would call a "fanBoy" of WinMo and have been for many years, but for the right reasons. It has provided me with the tools I need and understand with minimal to no trouble, though it may be due to the fact I actually know what my devices are for and can do.
For years now, I have been waiting to replace my HTC Diamond with a WinMo device from either HTC or SE for my current carrier Sprint, we all know the latter isn't happening. The Diamond serve me as much as it was going to, so it was necessary to replace it and since no HD2 or WinMo EVO like device came to sprint I had to suck it up and get the EVO with Android.
Don't get me wrong, Android is a pretty powerful OS in its own right, but not my cup of tea, too "stupid proof" if you asked me, just like IOS... what I need is a WinMo device, of course Windows Phone 7 device, on Sprint. I know Sprint will eventually have one if not late this year early next, but I already have the EVO and came across this article SO I COULD NOT POST A LINK (Google HTC Oboe) and saw an EVO-like CDMA HTC phone. This brings me to the my questions: Do you think replacing Android with workable ROMs of WinMo/WP7 will ever be possible (I know a dual boot on Android device has been proposed yet nowhere to be found), and if so where in XDA could I suggest or request this to be started by some of the developers? I mean the Oboe seems pretty close to the EVO, I am just not sure if the internal components are so compatible when it comes to running a different OS.
Moderators, please excuse my "n00bidity" and my English (not my first lang.), but while I try to be respectful and keep a decent online etiquette, some times I don't know what I am doing. I tried to find the best spot to talk about this idea and ask questions and this area seemed to be the most reasonable one... If there is a better spot, I don't mind it being moved there. I searched and couldn't come up with a conclusive answer so I hope that at least this question helps others asking it as well. Thanks.
Sure I would imagine its possible I mean almost anything is possible. The problem is I highly DOUBT any developer would waste their time porting WM to the EVO.
Its been asked many times before..here is just one
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=712599
Does this question get asked every other day...or is it just me?
Kshawn said:
Does this question get asked every other day...or is it just me?
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Click to collapse
i call troll. this is at least the 3rd thread ive seen.
emyllsomar said:
You can skip to the actual question below if you do not want to read.
I am what you would call a "fanBoy" of WinMo and have been for many years, but for the right reasons. It has provided me with the tools I need and understand with minimal to no trouble, though it may be due to the fact I actually know what my devices are for and can do.
For years now, I have been waiting to replace my HTC Diamond with a WinMo device from either HTC or SE for my current carrier Sprint, we all know the latter isn't happening. The Diamond serve me as much as it was going to, so it was necessary to replace it and since no HD2 or WinMo EVO like device came to sprint I had to suck it up and get the EVO with Android.
Don't get me wrong, Android is a pretty powerful OS in its own right, but not my cup of tea, too "stupid proof" if you asked me, just like IOS... what I need is a WinMo device, of course Windows Phone 7 device, on Sprint. I know Sprint will eventually have one if not late this year early next, but I already have the EVO and came across this article SO I COULD NOT POST A LINK (Google HTC Oboe) and saw an EVO-like CDMA HTC phone. This brings me to the my questions: Do you think replacing Android with workable ROMs of WinMo/WP7 will ever be possible (I know a dual boot on Android device has been proposed yet nowhere to be found), and if so where in XDA could I suggest or request this to be started by some of the developers? I mean the Oboe seems pretty close to the EVO, I am just not sure if the internal components are so compatible when it comes to running a different OS.
Moderators, please excuse my "n00bidity" and my English (not my first lang.), but while I try to be respectful and keep a decent online etiquette, some times I don't know what I am doing. I tried to find the best spot to talk about this idea and ask questions and this area seemed to be the most reasonable one... If there is a better spot, I don't mind it being moved there. I searched and couldn't come up with a conclusive answer so I hope that at least this question helps others asking it as well. Thanks.
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Click to collapse
Why do we have at least one of these threads for every phone released. Short answer, no. Long answer, it is theoretically possible but nobody on here is going to head up a project to do this. We are Android "fanboys" and find it to be much better than WinMo. However, if you would be interested in doing this you would have to first modify the bootloader to allow it to even boot WinMo. After booting you would need to make sure all the drivers work with it. Since, unlike Android, WinMo is closed source this is near impossible.
just do me a favor, BUY my HD2 thats sitting in the dust since u love windows so much.
searching does you good.
Question, can I put a Chevy volt engine in my new Ferrari, I love the look of the Ferrari but I want the electric engine?
There are a few reasons why we aren't going to port another os to this phone and why we aren't going to see Apps on this phone.
1. How many SKILLED programmers/developers do we actually have willing to put the time and effort into this phone. Not many, if any at all.
2. We are lacking some type of structured development process. Everyone running around trying to do things on their own isn't going to work.
3. Lack of Kin owners. How many people honestly own a Kin? Not too many.. Most likely explains the lack of programmers/devs who want to put work into this. None of them own this phone.
Honestly I love this phone, and as much as I'd hate to see it die, we should admit defeat to Microsoft and give up. Unless some skill gets into these communities I'm throwing in the towel.
Also, the developers that we do have don't want to brick their phones... it seems that even a used gen 1 Kin is $100+ on ebay... I don't understand why
Yeah, I'd hate to brick my phone...but my goal isn't to replace the OS...that is what I like about the phone...I would like to be able to develop for the existing OS...how can we make that happen (does anyone know anyone who knows anyone inside Microsoft to hear our plea)? Would be nice to have an SDK or at least upgrade to WP7.
Original Article
BackgroundI don't believe that I need to introduce myself, but if I do my name is P3Droid. I am a phone enthusiast and have been working in the Android platform for 17 months. I have been very lucky in my short time on the Android platform. I think more than anything I have been lucky enough to be in the right places at the right times. The day I first saw and played with the Droid (OG) I thought “that is the ugliest damn phone I've ever played with”. Then I was asked back into the store by my friend (nameless) to get some time with the Android platform and he began to explain to me how open the phone was and how a “smart” person could do anything they wanted to the phone. That turned what I thought was an ugly phone into the sexiest beast ever. I guess that was approximately October of 2009, and I was excited about the possibilities and dove right in without checking the depth of the water.
I spent much of the year on an open phone and an open platform, and sometime in July I picked up a Droid X. I soon found a great bunch of friends and we formed Team Black Hat. Really wanting to break the bootloader, we spent more hours working on it than we did our 9 – 5 jobs. Eventually we came to the conclusion (with help from some unique resources), that we were not going to accomplish our objective. Every so often we still pluck away at it, but we have moved on to other things that will help people enjoy their Droid phones.
Fast forward to October 2010. I'm still in love with the concept of android, and I've done more than my share of developing, themeing, creating ROMS and even hacking. *Having been involved in so many things and having developed some unique contacts, I have been privy to information that is not disseminated to the masses. Some of this information I was asked to sit on. Some information I sat on because I felt it was best to do so for our entire community. You have probably seen me rant on occasion about what I thought the community was doing wrong and causing itself future pain. Each of those days I had received even more disheartening information. So where does this leave me? It leaves me with a difficult choice to make. What to tell, how much to tell, and do I want to give information out that could possible be slightly wrong. I've worked very hard to verify things through multiple sources, when possible, and some other information comes from sources so reliable that I take them at their word.
This brings me up to today. I've tossed and turned regarding how to say this, and how to express all of the information and my feelings in regards to this information. I guess the solution is to just let you all decide for yourselves what you think and what you want to do.
One Shoe Falls
Beginning in July, we (TBH), began hearing things about Motorola working on ways to make rooting the device more difficult. This was going to be done via Google through the kernel. No big deal we thought, the community always finds a way. When Froyo was released and there was no root for some time we became a bit concerned but soon there was a process and even 1-clicks. This was good news and bad news to me, because it simply meant that they would go back to the drawing board and improve upon what they had done.
During this time there were still little rumors here and there about security of devices, and other such things but nothing solid and concrete. Until November.
The Other Shoe Falls
Beginning in October, the information began coming in faster and it had more of a dire ring to it. It was also coming in from multiple sources. I began to rant a little at the state of our community, and that we were the cause of our own woes. So what did I hear?
1. New devices would present challenges for the community that would most likely be insurmountable, and that Motorola specifically – would be impossible to hack the bootloader. Considering we never hacked the previous 3G phones, this was less than encouraging.
2.Locked bootloaders, and phones were not a Motorola-only issue, that the major manufacturers and carriers had agreed this was the best course of action.(see new HTC devices)
3. The driving forces for device lock down was theft of service by rooted users, the return of non-defective devices due to consumer fraud, and the use of non-approved firmware on the networks.
I think I posted my first angry message and tweet about being a responsible community soon after getting this information. I knew the hand writing was on the wall, and we would not be able to stop what was coming, but maybe we could convince them we were not all thieves and cut throats.
Moving along, December marked a low point for me. The information started to firm up, and I was able to verify it through multiple channels. This information made the previous information look like a day in the park. So what was new?
1. Multiple carriers were working collaboratively on a program that would be able to identify rooted users and create a database of their meids.
2. Manufacturers who supply Verizon were baking into the roms new security features:
a. one security feature would identify any phone using a tether program to circumvent paying for tethering services. (check your gingerbread DroidX/Droid2 people and try wireless tether)
b. a second security feature would allow the phone to identify itself to the network if rooted.
c. security item number 2 would be used to track, throttle, even possibly restrict full data usage of these rooted phones.
The Rubber Meets the Road
So, I wish I had more time to have added this to the original post, but writing something like this takes a lot of time and effort to put all the information into context and provide some form of linear progression.
Lets get on with the story. March of this year was a monumental month for me. The information was unsettling and I felt as if we had a gigantic bulls-eye on our backs.
This is what I have heard:
1. The way that they were able to track rooted users is based on pushing updates to phones, and then tracking which meid's did not take the update. There is more to it than this but that is the simple version.
2. More than one major carrier besides Verizon has implemented this program and that all carriers involved had begun tracking rooted phones. All carriers involved were more than pleased with the accuracy of the program.
1. What I was not told is what the carriers intended to do with this information.
3. In new builds the tracking would be built into the firmware and that if a person removed the tracking from the firmware then the phone would not be verified on the network (i.e. your phone could not make phone calls or access data).
4. Google is working with carriers and manufacturers to secure phones, and although Google is not working to end hacking, it is working to secure the kernel so that no future applications can maliciously use exploits to steal end-user information. But in order to gain this level of security this may mean limited chances to root the device. (This item I've been told but not yet able to verify through multiple sources – so take it for what you want)
5. Verizon has successfully used its new programs to throttle data on test devices in accordance with the guidelines of the program.
6. The push is to lock down the devices as tight as can be, but also offer un-lockable devices (Think Nexus S).
The question I've asked is why? Why do all this; why go through so much trouble. The answer I get is a very logical one and one I understand even if I don't like it. It is about the money. With LTE arriving and the higher charges for data and tethering, carriers feel they must bottle up the ability of users to root their device and access this data, circumventing the expensive tethering charges.
What I would like to leave you with is that this is not an initiative unique to Verizon or Motorola, this is industry wide and encompassing many manufacturers.
So what does all this mean? You will need to make your own conjectures about what to think of all of this. But, I think that the rooting, hacking, and modding community - as we know it - is living on borrowed time.
In the final analysis of all this I guess I'll leave you with my feelings:
I will take what comes and turn it into a better brighter day, that is all I can do because I do not control the world.
Disclaimers:
I am intentionally not including any names of sources as they do not want to lose their jobs.
This information is being presented to you as I have received and verified it. *
I only deal with information pertaining to US carriers and have no specific knowledge concerning foreign carriers.
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Thoughts? Is there a future for Rooting?
thnx
Not to be a jerk, but what is the point of posting this?
To make the CSR look bad because he couldn't answer your question, or was referring to Android as a separate entity?
In the years I have been on xda I don't think any precedent has been set to expect any information from a provider before it is actually officially released.
So again, what was the point of posting this?
And to be honest I believe what he is saying because they tout the "uncarrier" label which might mean they don't have an infrastructure pertaining directly to Android updates. Verizon are heavily involved in the update process so more often than not the updates have to change hands 3 times before you get it. (Software Developer-> Hardware Manufacturer->Network Carrier->Customer). T-Mobile on the other hand isn't as predisposed with locking down anything in regards to their service and devices. Unless anyone else has specific information regarding strict carrier approval with T-Mobile I would suggest following LG's cues as to when the update will roll through. It sounds like all models will be pushed the update within 2-6 weeks.
By reading what you posted it sounds like you just wanted to hear want you wanted. just wait for the updates like everyone else
MOD EDIT
No need of calling names
TC took an L here.
Well I just posted because I wanted to communicate what i learnt to the community , i am not criticizing anybody in my post instead a senior member calls me a douche bag... it shows the mental maturity of certain members.
People, I just returned to the Samsung "fold" after a hiatus of several years. It's a Note 10+ 5G, with T-Mobile. While the improvement from my previous LG (AT&T) phone and experience is absolute (T-Mobile has turned out to be a wonderful surprise), what I was really hoping for was, among other things, the flexibility of rooting which I had with all of my previous Samsung phones. In fact, I had come to almost rely on rooting for some very simple reasons: to keep Google, Samsung and whatever other providers of hardware and software from becoming my life's "partners" within my phone! A simple example is Google's need to know my bodily functions, my contacts and my schedule even though all of that is well handled by other, non-Google systems. If I choose not to share my life with Google, the phone continues to function as required. But it (and Samsung, for that matter) keeps trying. I am reasonably proficient with ADB and use the work arounds with some success but it is annoying. Again, I am not out to subvert any system; I simply don't want to share my life with the hardware and software providers, at least, no more than is needed. My phone is unlocked. Is there any hope of getting root for the non-exynos version of this phone?
EBRJR said:
People, I just returned to the Samsung "fold" after a hiatus of several years. It's a Note 10+ 5G, with T-Mobile. While the improvement from my previous LG (AT&T) phone and experience is absolute (T-Mobile has turned out to be a wonderful surprise), what I was really hoping for was, among other things, the flexibility of rooting which I had with all of my previous Samsung phones. In fact, I had come to almost rely on rooting for some very simple reasons: to keep Google, Samsung and whatever other providers of hardware and software from becoming my life's "partners" within my phone! A simple example is Google's need to know my bodily functions, my contacts and my schedule even though all of that is well handled by other, non-Google systems. If I choose not to share my life with Google, the phone continues to function as required. But it (and Samsung, for that matter) keeps trying. I am reasonably proficient with ADB and use the work arounds with some success but it is annoying. Again, I am not out to subvert any system; I simply don't want to share my life with the hardware and software providers, at least, no more than is needed. My phone is unlocked. Is there any hope of getting root for the non-exynos version of this phone?
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Taking the time you look on the forum would have answered your question. One thread in particular has a pretty active discussion (including from one rather knowledgeable person).
The summary of the whole "if this phone will have root" is basically this.. Samsung got it's act together with this phone. Will root be possible... Someday maybe, but not anytime soon.
scottusa2008 said:
Taking the time you look on the forum would have answered your question. One thread in particular has a pretty active discussion (including from one rather knowledgeable person).
The summary of the whole "if this phone will have root" is basically this.. Samsung got it's act together with this phone. Will root be possible... Someday maybe, but not anytime soon.
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I appreciate the admonishment about "taking the time" and I actually considered that I had. Unfortunately, my limited reading here and elsewhere resulted in the same conclusion that you reached, minus the aspirational portion! I guess I was hoping that, indeed, my reviews were truly insufficient and missing some obvious and positive answer.
Well, I got my answer! Much appreciated.