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Yes, I've decided to take on a mammoth task, welcome to "ROSS"... "Replacment Operating System Structure" for Mobile phones & PDA's =]
The website is located here!
Yeah, you all think i'm crazy "hang on, you can't port Android to X50v!"
Well, not YET, but with help It will be done.
What is android you may ask?
Android is google's open source platform for Mobile phones and PDA's =]
So yes, I plan to create a operating system for X50v to replace WM6 with and allow users to develop/change bits of the operating system they don't like.
There will be a few "flavours"
Lite: Basics, very Basics, just Wifi/bluetooth support, a simple GUI and No applications (just a few settings). This free's up a LOT of RAM + ROM
Medium: The one "hopefully" most people will use, This is the standard one, basic office applications (replacing all the standard WM6 ones) a few games, decent GUI etc.
Heavy: The one that leaves least RAM and ROM available, the one with the most applications + usability, although it may lag a little.
Of course, we're going to build a "super-lite" version first, just to make sure it's flashable to the X50v =]
Maglite_RUS & Football may be willing to help, maybe not, we hope for his help + support throught this project
but first we need a team!!!
If you have any experience in making ROMS for X50v (ONLY, we will work on others after the X50v is done) or developing operating systems (various Linux distro's included) and Java (what the majority is coded in) then please please sign up. I plan to help develop the applications rather than the operating system myself, but I will work on ALL aspects of the project of course
If you're interested, and have found this link of google or something, then don't hesitate to email me here
Feel free to discuss =]
Hi Obsidiandesire...
This could be a great project!
It's very nice to see you're a PPC enthusiast like me...
I'm a PC software developer (not PPC) with quite experience but to start this project we need some black belt coders...
Another Linux project was already started here
http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/DellAximX50 but the developing speed was not so fast...
Another issue would surely be the ROM compaction problem that will kick in also on a different OS.
The only thing that could solve this on x50v would be to hack the bootloader in a way to load OS from SD or CF , so all data will be written on a fast write NAND device... By the way this would mean loosing the internal ROM!
But your approach seems to be the most sensible one, as one would never lose the possibility to startup the phone's default os (windows mobile).
It seems quite an interesting project, i have to admit i have a strong will to help you out, as i am also a professional programmer, however i am not a java, or C developer (long time i do not do anything in C), so i guess i am more of a designer myself
Well, i will keep up with this post and maybe we will colaborate in the future, i feel it's time to have our own software in the mobile's, i hate the microsoft's approach to the os handling.
Glad to see we're getting some interest in this project!!!
Hopefully, soon we could set up a website and start developing =]
who knows, we may be the lucky winners of the google competition and get $10 million! (not much use to me because im british lol)
So, you're Idea would be basically multi-boot?
sounds good, but we'd need to modify the bootloader (maybe hold enter, power + reset to switch to ROSS-Mobile?)
Sounds good! and i've just started learning Java too, so this project could take a while, hopefully, if it starts getting quite a bit of attention, we could move it to other platforms (HTC touch etc) which would make us Gods within the PDA community
I do like the posibilities of Android as it looks like it could make good use of the graphics chip in the X50v and it wouldn't have Windows Mobile lagging it down
How much RAM does it have again? It would be as powerfull as an old PC if you overclock it slightly (700mhz, 32MB RAM, 16MB graphics or something like that) and slap on a minimal OS and you could have your own [email protected] Pocket version! lol
Sorry if i've gone off on a tangent, i'm really excited about Android and it's possibilities.
First steps though, how would you get the DEFAULT android software to boot on the X50v? I think this should be our goal before starting on the project itself
this is cool. if anyone gets this to work i would be happy to be a tester. i don't know much about programming but have flash other devices with Linux.
A bit a info i picked up on flashing Linux on ipaqs is that you had to flash a new bootloader that would boot both wince and Linux. don't know why both but maybe to return to wince because to flash the boot loader you did it with a app that ran on wince and after that you would boot the bootloader and make a serial connection so that you could send the linux distro and erase wince.
Thanks for the info, more help on how to do this would be great! (I could try this on my X50v for testing purposes)
would it not be actually possible to boot the android/linux directly from a storage card? so as to effectively allow users to 'dual' boot?
duke_stix said:
would it not be actually possible to boot the android/linux directly from a storage card? so as to effectively allow users to 'dual' boot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Each time you would boot a os you would erase saved data (hard reset) because you would need the memory were the settings are for each os. but thats is what i think i haven't flash a device for a long time so im out of date on this as far as if they gotten a doul boot win ce and linux but i assume that this will be a problem with win ce and android dual boot.
You would have to put both os in the flash mamory(were the os goes) and find a way to save the settings from a os and store them so that it can load the settings for the other os and vice versa
but you could do it like linux on a palm zire72. i have linux on my zire but linux is on the memory card when i reset the device it will reboot onto the palm os, so no flashing happens just load the bootloader through the palm os and linux kernel loads, but at the same time palm os is hard reseted, this is palm but same linux that is used on ppc. You would need to find a way too load a bootloader during win ce but dont see that this is possible. only one os at a time.
And Obsidiandesire i will try to get an old friend that used to work on porting linux to ppc he might help on the bootloader part but haven't herd from him for a long time but will try hard on finding him. but as long as we get many people this might be possible. i will post later if i find him.(good luck on your leg)
or, the flash memory card from which you 'boot' the android/linux from could actually hold a partition which served as a flash drive/storage drive aswell? so effectively it would mean you would require something like a 1gb or 512mb card, splitting that to allow you RAM and ROM space but i cant see why that would be too difficult. it would just be a matter of tricking the linux to thinking the local on-drive storage is its 'root' drive and the default drive to save to and to completely and totally NOT access any of the WM stuff on the flash memory that is hard-soldered onto the handset.
not sure if this helps, just bandying ideas around at the mo!
duke_stix said:
or, the flash memory card from which you 'boot' the android/linux from could actually hold a partition which served as a flash drive/storage drive aswell? so effectively it would mean you would require something like a 1gb or 512mb card, splitting that to allow you RAM and ROM space but i cant see why that would be too difficult. it would just be a matter of tricking the linux to thinking the local on-drive storage is its 'root' drive and the default drive to save to and to completely and totally NOT access any of the WM stuff on the flash memory that is hard-soldered onto the handset.
not sure if this helps, just bandying ideas around at the mo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see what you mean, but then the card might not be recognised in windows =/
However, denying the operating system access to writing the rom (and store everything in RAM) might work, but all settings would have to be stored on the SD card which could lead to a slow application.
The SDK (with the sample apps) itself is around 100MB, but Methinks that the final OS will be around 30MB (Without any apps)
Expanding on the partition Idea, what about partitioning the ROM itself? This might require a special WM6/5/CE ROM but one flash compared to many (everytime the device boots) could be worth it, and it could get round the setttings loss if we restrict each one to not write over the other?
My leg is getting better thankyou, seems like a severe muscle strain (The doctor said) so i should be back in school tomorrow.... great
i see what you mean by the card not being recognised by windows and offer a simple solution:
have a DEDICATED card for android and a seperate card for storage under WM.
to be completely honest with you, theres people on here spending hundreds and hundreds of pounds to have the latest device (and im one of them) im sure they wouldnt mind spending an extra few pounds for another memory card which would allow amazing functionality without actually jeapordising their current WM install (so they can have an install of WM6 to fall back onto)
what i propose is the following system:
1) MEMORY card formatted and partitioned to allow more or less the same sort of structure of memory/ram as the onboard memory does
2) INSTALL the actual android/linux to the memory card utilising the space as you would the hard-soldered memory on the phone without actually modifying the handset itself in any way whatsoever.
3) THIS method allows people to effectively dual-boot android/WM6/5 without the danger of them actually ruining their WM6 install, effectively using the android/linux platform to play about with whilst having the original WM6 to fall back onto for day-to-day usage.
shouldnt be too difficult to accomplish, im sure a modified bootloader would do the job pretty well, cant see why without the help of Olipro and Pof this cant be done!
LETS GET THE BALL ROLLING!
Seems good, but what, have the SD card for storage and CF for the OS? 'cos you obviously can't have 2 SD cards in the X50v (unless there's a CF-SD card adapter lying around somewhere on the web or on a shelf)
But as far as getting the ball rolling, yeah!!
Work on having the vanilla build of android (one included in the SDK) running before starting from scratch!
Obsidiandesire said:
Seems good, but what, have the SD card for storage and CF for the OS? 'cos you obviously can't have 2 SD cards in the X50v (unless there's a CF-SD card adapter lying around somewhere on the web or on a shelf)
But as far as getting the ball rolling, yeah!!
Work on having the vanilla build of android (one included in the SDK) running before starting from scratch!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
another problem would be on getting the bootloader to see the cf card and that maybe a problem, we would need to add one of the slots(sd or cf) to the bootloader and let us choose what os to boot or what memory to boot(sd,cf, or rom mem).
the other way if we don't want to modify anything would be loading a bootloader during winidows mobile.
i hate this time difference
i cant see why you cant actually have the android on the SD card and stick to having the CF card as storage for both WM and Linux
that way, it would mean a sort of 'standardising' for people to port over to other phones which use SD based memory cards.rather than making it bespoke to CF capable devices (of which there arent many!)
Yes, the problems will be a rebuild of the bootloader to recognise both SD + CF cards.
And loading the bootloader under Windows mobile could be good, but you'd then have to terminate WM (which could be a problem)
And which part of the USA do you live in? There's probably an 8 or 9 hour time difference :-(
@dude_stix
well, even so, you'd need both SD + CF storage, which AGAIN could be a problem. But (in my experience) CF is more expensive, and considering Android will take up less space, It seems a more viable option (in my example, a 32MB CF card would be useless if I installed Android on a 2GB SD card and nullified the rest of the space for use (which could happen))
I think the easier option would be to modify the bootloader to look for images on both cards and install on the one with the image on it.
What about drivers etc? Obviously these would be needed for most things.
drivers????
thats all i got but it would not be hard if htc releases its android devices soon so we can get ideas from them. still today linux devices have problems with bluetooth, wifi, backlight, sd, etc...
posted on 5:23 pm here in south central US (Texas)
That's a 6 hour time differance :/
The Drivers being the things (mainly DLL's in WM) that controll the wifi/bluetooth etc.
This is why Linux has problems with them, i think they have to rebuild their own or something, which could pose a problem.
Do you think we should set a website & Forums up, or is it too early at the moment?
ultraprimeomega said:
drivers????
thats all i got but it would not be hard if htc releases its android devices soon so we can get ideas from them. still today linux devices have problems with bluetooth, wifi, backlight, sd, etc...
posted on 5:23 pm here in south central US (Texas)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah... ...Drivers!!
This will be the hard one...
With WM6 cooked rom it was easy... We could reuse WM5 drivers written specifically for that device (x50v and x51v needed a specific driver for the 2700G chipset).... So if there won't be any Smartphone with such chipset with Android pre-installed it would be very hard to write that drivers from scratch... By the way somewhere I remeber I found a PowerVR driver source code for Linux that could be useful to do the job...
Cheers
Antineutrino said:
Yeah... ...Drivers!!
This will be the hard one...
...
Cheers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't the drivers' job what the linux kernel is supposed to do? Why don't you go grab the kernel from the gpe/opie project and add the android image to it, partition the sd card with a windows and a linux partition like the other linux guys do, load the ramdisk like they do and see if it works. At least they have a start on the drivers for the Axim.
wovens said:
Isn't the drivers' job what the linux kernel is supposed to do? Why don't you go grab the kernel from the gpe/opie project and add the android image to it, partition the sd card with a windows and a linux partition like the other linux guys do, load the ramdisk like they do and see if it works. At least they have a start on the drivers for the Axim.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, this could be a start indeed, now how do we get android actually ON the x50v??
Hello,
like the title says i'd like to know if it's possible to create a bootloader or somewhat which is able to boot the standard OS from the device and a second OS from the memory card?
Let's say - if you switch the device on, you could choose whether to boot from the device (WM) or the memory card (Android).
Is it possible? Let's say - for the HTC HD2 for example?
What i found so far, is this and this article, as well as several threads in this forum. At least some really good dev's made it and ported Android to Touch HD for example. A bootloader would be needed in order to select, what to boot.
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely, nitrate
What currently happens is WM gets booted and then Haret gets run which acts as a bootloader.
You could streamline the process, and have haret run sooner, but given Android is currently not that stable I'd want to boot to WM myself.
l3v5y said:
but given Android is currently not that stable I'd want to boot to WM myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?? I switched to my Android phone from a WinMO and I am upset because I didn't do it sooner.
Android on non-android devices is a little unstable, native android devices are stable enough. As far as bootloaders go, what most would like to see is a way of getting Android off SD and into ROM, so that we could boot directly into Android without needing to involve WM at all.
However unless someone can rewrite something like the OpenHandHeld bootloader for use with HTC devices, Haret will be the only way to boot Android for the forseeable future, plus, with the lack of stability on non-android hardware, I like the option of having WM there, just to fall back on if needed.
zenity said:
Android on non-android devices is a little unstable, native android devices are stable enough. As far as bootloaders go, what most would like to see is a way of getting Android off SD and into ROM, so that we could boot directly into Android without needing to involve WM at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what i want to know as well. A bootloader which let's you choose between booting WM from the devices' internal space or Android from the microSDHC-card.
And of course this bootloader should boot at first, just before WM does - kinda a boot menu of a Desktop PC which has Windows and Linux installed.
If it were possible to run a boot loader on your WM* device and dual boot there would be one major draw back (in my opinion); the architecture of these devices, without a storage card, uses the available memory for RAM and storage. Unlike your home PC that has specific Memory Chips and a Hard Disk Drive used for RAM and Storage specifically (if we ignore virtual memory for a minute) which means you can pack the disk space pretty much full and not effect the performance of the system.
Mobile Devices use some sort of Eeprom/solid state memory with XXXmb of memory. The more data files that you put inside the XXXmb of memory (in storage) means that the software you are running (WM6.5 + HTC Sense etc.) have less RAM to do their work, and the system is noticeably slower.
So back to the original topic, dual boot would suggest two OS residing in the devices ROM / XXXmb and a drastic reduction in performance, regardless of the OS WinMo or Android (linux)...
Saying that i have Android on my HD, using Haret.exe... I don't use it often and it is buggy - but the fact I've got it there shows that I'm still on the fence.
Hello
On my home computer, I am successfully hexibooting [6 OSs] on the one hard-drive.
Yesterday I bought myself an 8GB MicroSD card (was using onboard only before), and was wondering if it'd be possible to tri-boot;
Windows Mobile 6.5
Google Android
Rhobuntu
If it's possible, how can I make this project work?
Else, would it be possible to multi-boot with any 2-3 Operating Systems on an HTC Touch Pro2?
Thanks in advance for any help given,
Chip D. Panarchy
look in the rom section... theres roms built with both android and windows... dual booting.
Sounds interesting, I'll look into that.
Also, is it possible to Tri-Boot WinMo, Android & Rhobuntu?
It's kind of possible to "tri-boot" all these different OSes. Basically, Rhobuntu and Android reside on the SD card, and each can be started from their respective HaRET.exe, which is a bootloader that unloads Windows Mobile from RAM and loads the Linux kernel (and then the userland, whether it be Rhobuntu or Android).
You can have Rhobuntu and Android installed side by side on your microSD card, and WM on the internal NAND memory, but you still have to boot Windows Mobile before you boot Android/Rhobuntu.
There is a utility somewhere, called Gen.Y dual boot, which is a WM program that loads early in the WM boot process and gives you the opportunity to choose Android (or any other Linux distro with modification), but that's as close to a true multiboot system as you can get. There isn't a way to have a GRUB like selection screen at boot, or anything nice like that.
Hmm, well that's unfortunate!
Thanks for your help though, I'll look into GenY-Dual.Boot
Panarchy
Just thought this might be useful to some of the newer users, a list of what I see as the most commonly asked questions, and some misunderstood terms.
What is the difference between Nand, Haret and SD:
Nand; refers to the devices internal memory, which is NAND Flash memory, and is used to hold what is commonly called 'a ROM'. It is this memory which holds the Operating System, and can be 'Flashed' to change the data on it, once flashed it is persistent in memory, meaning that if you remove all power sources it will not lose this data, this is also known as 'Non-volatile Memory'. Nand Flash refers to a specific type of Flash memory, and gets it's name from the way the memory cells are constructed.
SD; Refers to the MicroSD cards we use in our devices, these are also Nand Flash but typically have slower transfer rates than the Nand Flash we have inside the device. typically used to store data, they can also be used to store the Android OS when used with Haret installs.
Haret; often confused with SD. It actually refers to Haret.exe, which is a program used to launch Linux systems from within another OS, such as Windows Mobile, think of it as a Virtual machine system, which allows users to run another OS. In our case, Haret refers to running Android within WM, it does not replace WM in Nand ROM, it does replace it in RAM however, but only until powered down, after that WM will boot from Nand next time the device is powered on.
What is my Panel Type?:
Panel; This refers to the actual LCD panel hardware, there are 3 types in use on Kaiser, and although Type2 seems most common, there are also Types 1 and 3. When running WM the panel type is autodetected and the correct settings are used for the display, however Android has no autodetect, so we must tell the OS which type we are using at boot, in Haret installs this is done with a line in Default.txt, in Nand it is set in the NBH we use to flash the kernel and other boot files needed to run Android. Display issues such as odd pixel colouration, streaks or lines on the display, white screen when exiting sleep, and other noticeable display issues can usually be cured by changing the panel type.
Other useful terms:
NBH; This is the file extension of a file intended for flashing to Nand, most commonly used to flash WM or Android, it can also be used to flash radio or splash screen.
Bootloader/tricolour screen; Both are the same, it refers to the screen display you get if you hold the camera button, and press power, on this screen are a few useful pieces of information, device type, (e.g KAIS130), SPL version, (e.g SPL-3.29.Hard), in the bottom white area it will say 'serial' or if connected to a PC, 'usb'. Remember to remove the SD card before entering Bootloader mode, as the bootloader also scans the SD for a file called KASIimg.nbh, and will run the updater utility if one is found.
HardSPL; This is a specially designed SPL that allows us to flash the Nand with an NBH file that was not signed by HTC, it also prevents itself from being overwritten, so that it is usually possible to reflash as long as we can get into Bootloader mode, this means we can, ( usually ), recover from a bad/corrupt flash.
Build and ROM; In WM terms, a ROM usually refers to a complete, ready to install, single file NBH, custom version of WM. However with Android we do not use the single file approach, and therefore we do not usually use the term ROM. Build is what we usually call a custom Android install. This is roughly equivalent to the WM 'cooked ROM', since each build is designed and built in a particular way, and may be any of the different android 'flavours'.
Flavours; Mostly used to describe the versions of android, these are, in historical order
1.1 - un-named, released feb 2009
1.5 - Cupcake, released april 2009
1.6 - Donut, released sept 2009
2.0/2.1 - Eclair, released as 2.0, oct 2009, and as 2.1, Jan 2010
2.2 - Froyo, released may 2010
3.0 - Gingerbread, scheduled release date, sep-dec 2010.
Odex'ed: As stock, android builds are odex'ed. Odexing involves generating an odex file for each app, which slightly lowers the memory used by the system, and may also speed up execution of apps, the downside is that it is difficult to modify odexed builds in order to tweak or theme them.
DeOdex'ed: a deodexed build is one in which the odex files are moved into the apk's, which slightly increases the memory used by /system, but allows modifications and tweaks to be used.
Deodex Vs Odex: Odex uses less space in /system, boots quicker, especially the initial boot after installation, however themeing is impossible, and various tweaks and modifications probably won't work. Deodexed uses more space in /system, has a slower initial boot, subsequent boots are much quicker, but may be a little slower than odexed, theming is a lot easier, as are modifications and tweaking of the build. ( most custom builds are deodexed due to the ease of theming and modifying ).
Bootsplash/Bootanimation:
The bootsplash is the static picture that appears as soon as you boot the device, usually is stays for 20 seconds or so before being replaced by the scrolling text showing Linux is booting.
The Bootanimation is the animated screen you see after Linux has booted, and usually loops until Android is loaded.
Sim Pin/SIM lock:
SIM Pin is often confused with the SIM lock, the SIM pin is the code you have to enter before using the phone when you start it up, this code is stored on the SIM card itself, and until recently caused a lot of problems, since Android could not decode it properly, this has been fixed in some flavours, Eclair and Froyo, but is still an issue in older flavours, such as Donut.
Sim lock also known as provider lock is a method used my phone service providers to ensure that you only use their service by locking the phone so that it only accepts that providers SIM cards, this lock code is stored on the phone, and may be unlocked by entering a code, or by bypassing it using unlocking software, once unlocked the phone will accept any other providers SIM card.
PUK the PUK is the Personal Unlock Code, and is a code that unblocks a SIM that has been blocked by too many unsuccessful attempts to enter the Sim Pin code, ( usually 3 attempts), this code must be entered to unblock the SIM card, usually the PUK is provided with the SIM Card, however if it is lost then some providers may give you the code, if the SIM has been registered by you.
Please feel free to add to this
Back to Windows Mobile:
If you need to reflash Windows Mobile, for whatever reason, these are my preferred methods:
I recommend using a Card Reader and MicroSD adaptor for working with SD cards, it makes life so much easier than relying on the kaiser to transfer and rename files, since most of us are used to handling files in Windows.
Method 1
1. Download a Stock shipped ROM, do not go crazy getting the latest custom 6.5 ROM, in my experience these often cause problems, if you want to go to Custom ROM's then flash stock first.
2. Extract the RUU_Signed.NBH file from the .exe, ( I use 7zip for this, but other archive utilities my work, winzip, winrar etc), rename the file to KAISimg.nbh and copy to the root of a freshly formatted SD card.
3. Insert the SD card in your Kaiser, pres and hold camera button while pressing power, ( you only need to press power briefly, but keep the camera button pressed until you see the tricoloured screen).
4. Once you get the tricolour screen, ( bootloader ), it should change to a grey screen with blue instructions, basically, press the power button and let it flash.
5. Once flashed, simply pull the battery/press reset and let it go through the first boot process.
Troubleshooting
Common problems with this method are that it will just not recognise the flash file, leaving you at the bootloader screen, this is usually caused by wrongly formatted sd cards, the card must be formatted FAT32. Other reasons are file name issues, make sure you have not accidentally mistyped the filename, or renamed it as kaisimg.nbh.nbh.
Method 2:
If Method 1 fails then the alternative method is USB flashing:
1. Disable Activesync, by unchecking the 'USB' option in Connection settings.
2. Remove the SD and SIM cards from the Kaiser.
3. Press Camera+Power to enter Bootloader.
4 Connect the usb cable, ensure that is says 'USB' at the bottom of the screen.
5. Flash the Stock ROM, usually by double clicking the downloaded stock ROM exe file, allow it to flash, and wait until it is finished before removing the USB Cable.
Troubleshooting
There are a few potential issues with this method also, if this method fails try another stock rom, the last shipped ROM from HTC was Kaiser_HTC_ASIA_HK_WWE_3.34.721.2, this is a generic stock 6.1 rom and should be compatible with most if not all kaiser variants.
Useful Links:
ThoughtlessKyle's Why my Wifi doesn't Work Invaluable Information on recent WiFi Issues, A 'Must Read'......
LCD Panel Information
Tinboot thread ( the thread that launched Nand flashing on kaiser ).
SuperJMN's Android Issues roundup thread ( common problems, as yet unsolved )
Adding language support
Miscellaneous Notes.
Radio Version
Just as in Windows Mobile, Radio Version seems to play as vital a role on Android.
There are a number of problems that may be related to radio version, and just as in WM, the effects are sometimes surprising.
Audio: yes, just like WM the wrong radio version can cause audio issues, ranging from no audio, to more subtle issues such as call audio not working, even though all other audio events work fine.
Wifi: no surprise really, the radio stack controls wifi as well as the more common phone/network activities.
Data/Network: Obvious one, but there are a number of complicating factors here too, geographical location seems to affect radio version, for instance, in the USA, 1.71 radios may offer the best signal, and data rates, while in Europe, using 1.71 may cause a lot of 'No Signal' issues, where the phone seems to drop off the network, the solution is usually an older radio version, in the UK 1.65 seems the best choice for most users, I have also had reports of 1.65 being the best for South Africa, Asis, while Australia seems to do better on 1.70 or 1.71. This may be due to the technology in use in those countries.
GPS Maybe, not sure about this one, had at least one report that a radio downgrade from 1.71 to 1.65 seemed to help with GPS, as far as I am aware the GPS and the Radio stack are not related, but who knows for sure?
Great guide! I was thinking about making similar one myself, but couldn't find free time
I'll maybe try to add something this weekend
hello maybe a stupid question
what is the differents between odex and unodex
sorry for my bad english
kisses
Rose
Not sure if this is a general dumb newbie question but I'm having it across different Android builds. Occasionally I have to reset the phone without shutting Android down. When I restart, any apps that were running at the time have to be uninstalled and re-installed because they now crash on startup (with a "program has stopped working" error.) Is there anything I can do about this?
CassandraN said:
Not sure if this is a general dumb newbie question but I'm having it across different Android builds. Occasionally I have to reset the phone without shutting Android down. When I restart, any apps that were running at the time have to be uninstalled and re-installed because they now crash on startup (with a "program has stopped working" error.) Is there anything I can do about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really a dumb question, however it depends how you are resetting, the reset button is a bad idea, Battery Pull is the preferred method, ( say it with me class, 'Battery Pull Good, Reset Button Bad' ).
However, why do you have to reset without shutdown? This often leads to data corruption, since the OS does not get a chance to synchronise properly before it closes, ( not that a battery pull should be any better, but for some reason it seems to cause fewer problems than resets).
Thanks for the FAQ, it is extremely useful to noob or semi-noob like I am.
Thanks, that's why I decided to start it, and if one person finds it useful, it was worth it
say it with me class
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is just hilarious
BTW, I tried some of the reboot apps in the market, non of them seemed to work (on 2.1)
the original reboot menu that you get when you hold the power button did not work at all. it just hangs on the loading circle.
In Froyo however, things are a bit different. the reboot option shuts downs the device instead, I did not try any reboot app yet
Any ideas about this zenity?
zenity said:
Not really a dumb question, however it depends how you are resetting, the reset button is a bad idea, Battery Pull is the preferred method, ( say it with me class, 'Battery Pull Good, Reset Button Bad' ).
However, why do you have to reset without shutdown? This often leads to data corruption, since the OS does not get a chance to synchronise properly before it closes, ( not that a battery pull should be any better, but for some reason it seems to cause fewer problems than resets).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually battery pull (I lost my stylus and the cheap replacement won't fit in the reset hole ), but I still seem to have problems.
I think my problems are due to a rogue app eating all the CPU. My suspicions are Twitter or Swiftkey. The phone becomes so unresponsive that sometimes a hard reset is the only way to make it useable again. I'll try to avoid it in future if I possibly can.
Tried taskiller? Useful for watching your memory, and killing tasks if needed, osmonitor is also useful for, well monitoring the os
I have noticed that the system does get very unresponsive at times, and it usually means low memory, try an eclair build if you are using a CM6 based one, I usually get about 30+Mb free in normal conditions, and if things start to get too slow, well a tap on the taskiller widget sorts that out
@Duke911:
As far as I am aware there is no real reboot option, in any build, I think it's a kernel issue, or perhaps just not implemented correctly, the safest option is a power off, which performs a proper shutdown, I do know there have been a few issues with data corruption that may be associated with using reboot, or the reset button, since these may cause the system to shutdown to rapidly to sync any data that may be cached, it's similar to pulling an SD card out of the computer, there may be data left unwritten in cache, which is why there is a nice safe removal option
This is a cool wiki for Kaiser Android users! Thank you!
By OP request, I am making this thread a sticky and making some adjustments to the forum. Please PM me if you have any requests. Thanks.
Precious work, Zenity!!!
video call anyone?
Is there any chance of getting a build to support video calling?
Video calling will need working front camera driver at least, which is not supported yet, I do not know if anyone is actively working on this, however, at some time, someone will take up this challenge, just as they have with other things which did not work previously
Sent from my HTC Dream using Tapatalk
hello..
I just want to ask about polymod and cyanogenmod.
what is the function, are they different from eclair or froyo?
thanks ^^
CyanogenMod builds are all Modifications of base android releases, these are complete rebuilds of the system, and include many improvements over the original release.
Polymod is an Eclair Mod based on OpenEclair 1.3 and is modded in a different way to Cyanogen's methods and style.
Most Eclair and Froyo builds are ports and modifications of Cyanogen bases, ( in fact I don't think there are any Froyo builds that are not CM6 based).
For Donut things are different, most builds are modifications and ports of official releases, such as Myn's Warm Donut.
Hello,
I need some help. Install its Android OS, but after he reset my Kaiser again charged WinMo OS. My question is whether it is possible to choose which OS to load first or with any program or edit the file to indicate to launch the first Android.
Sorry for my bad english :S Use Google translator
If you have installed Android to SD card and use Haret.exe then it will always reboot to WM.
You must install to nand if you wish to boot to Android only, which will wipe WM totally and replace it with Android.
The guide stickied at the top of the forum is a good tutorial in doing this
That does bring a good point to my mind though, we could create an exe that loads at startup of wm to auto load haret and startup if the user doesn't cancel in so many seconds (like grub). I keep WM on my phone so I can easily change my droid version and also I know everything works including opening office files (actually that's the biggest sticking point for me keeping it).
Thanks for support. Today I try to flash via NAND method.
Kind Regards
Lybomir
I flash my Kaiser with latest zImage-2.6.32-froyo-09-09-10_21 from here http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/files/?C=M;O=D and my device loading Android OS very slow, and big problem is : Phone go in screensaver and I try to unlock and screeen stay only in white light, no picture, no widgets... total block. Only solution is it a use Soft reset button or remove batery
Maybe you choose the wrong panel type?
I can read in your signature Duo Boot so I guess you installed onto the SD and use Haret to run Android.
If so, you have to edit the default.txt file locate in ANDBOOT folder and modify the value following htckaiser.panel_type.
You can specify 1, 2 or 3 (most Kaisers use panel type 2)
Wrong panel type may lead to awake problems or wrong colors...
The excessive slowness may be due to a slow SD. Which class is it? Use at least class 4 SD.
---- EDIT -----
In case you already flashed to NAND, to change the panel type you have to choose the right kernel (the kaisimg file) or you can edit the one you flashed following instructions and links you can find in #4 at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=680518
obviously you have to reflash the kaisimg.nbh but you don't need to flash Android again
I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english
dlink.bg said:
I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May you try to install a different build and see if you fall into the same problem?
BTW, just after installing, don't start playing soon with the device: initially skip all settings (touch the android, don't set google account and so on) and leave the phone quiet for at least 10-15 minutes: some builds need to copy file to the cache and playing with the device may interfere with this operation leading to unpredictable effects...
Let we know...
It is slow because you installed it on sdcard.. both partition.. if you are on nand. Try install both partition on nand partition.. and try hawks soad rls 3 as me.. its fastest build for kaiser.. and I haven't ever problem with white screen ata awake.. try it in that haws soad ion build.. you can finf it in that forun.. just find it
Sent from my HTC Kaiser Ion using XDA App
I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!
dlink.bg said:
I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome
And I'm waiting to know
Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc
zenity said:
Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Zenity... Yes, know that piece of software.
But as You have to boot WinMo (Yes, I Know, not all the services need to be running but system must be loaded and started, GUI must be running and so on) in order to DualBOOT can start, I can guess it's only a partial time-save... isn't it? Did You tried it?
Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.
zenity said:
Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course we haven't enough NAND to have both OSes!!!
What I was thinking to (but I'm a lot far to inspect WinMo booting sequence...) is if may be possible to wedge a sort of bootloader running BEFORE the OS loads or in the early booting process and letting we choose to boot WinMo (in NAND) of Android (on SD).
At present moment I've Android running from SD but kernel NANDed (I've got problems running out of NAND and no time to solve them so I'm using the solid build previously installed on SD) so Kaiser boots quickly... and this confirms it's possible boot SD Android without having to load WinMo or Haret. The more relevant matter I can see is that we have to find a way to wedge the bootloader without have to manual modify the WinMo ROM (virtualization is far from be considered on such devices...)
I suppose this is just a "mind exercise" (Sorry, I don't know how to correctly translate an Italian common saying...
Mind exercise describes it perfectly
Not sure why you would run out of space on nand, unless you are loading a lot of apps, and there are ways to run android that may help with that, such as apps2sd, or data on SD partition.
If you must have WM then your only choice would be using Haret.exe, and the most efficient way to dual boot we have at the moment is the Gen-Y solution, which is not ideal, but does offer at least part of what you seek.
The Android bootloader we use (tinboot.s) is not flexible enough to allow dual booting, but may have some information that may be of some use in this
tinboot thread
See what you think anyway
Sorry, I was not able to be clear... I apologize for my English...
When I said "I've got problems running out of NAND" I intended to say "I've got problems - very bad performances - when Android was running from NAND"!!!
Maybe we are a bit OT...
BTW, I was far from software developing for a long while and never developed low level software for Linux/Unix... but in the past I messed up with Z80, 65xx, 68K and x86 platforms's assembly
Recently I need to approach software developing again (but at a really different level...)
I'd like to have spare time to start again, as this world attracts me more. Maybe I'll give it a chance...
Let me understand... tinboot is actually used bootloader?
BTW, just to be clear... I don't need WinMo and I'm giving Android a chance to revive my Kaiser. I'm looking for a fast and stable build and actually I'm running VaniljEclair RLS11 (Yes, I know, I'd try your Polymod 2.1D build... )
Tinboot is the bootloader we use to get android in nand, not being a coder my understanding in limited, however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
I assumed you meant running out of space on nand, lol, i see now what you mean, no need to apologise for you english, it's fine
zenity said:
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however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you're right... it's a useful starting point and I'll read it accurately...
Unluckly, I need a lot of spare time (and I don't, at present) to build a solid knowledge base and to start developing for Android.
yes there should be plenty of room for both oses on Nand, I still have over 90 mb on my wm6.5 nand install with come extra apps in there. So if you stripped down both oses you could easily fit them both on nand and still some space left. But then you need to have a boot loader that will be able to load both oses. I think I heard someone say somewhere they are using grub to boot android from nand, that can boot windows also with the right configuration, that would be where to start.