Develop Bugs

How can we support WP7 to make sure it succeds? ( and actually gets a version 2 even)

Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?

Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!

From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.

you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?

I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).

go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.

What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding

One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.

FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.

jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.

Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.

this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).

It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.

WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.

votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!

lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...

orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.

blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.

[Q] How do you feel about Wp7?

iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?

Wp7 not wm7. As far as I'm concerned IOS and Android are dated by comparison and have nothing new to offer. Neither of them has had anything updated worth speaking about since 3.0 on IOS or eclair on Android. Wp7 is refreshing after seeing phone oses get sold solely by hardware or advertisements. Gingerbread was essentially a glorified pallet swap and 4.0 pretty much just created fragmentation and added face time. They're out of ideas, Android relies solely on OEM business and IOS will just steal any idea from the next competitor and act as though its innovation.

There is no more WM, WP7 is a new system.
Although it's not bug free and missing some important features, I do love my Windows Phone
It's as smooth as iOS while more vivid (Dynamic Desktop).
Also three hard keys is more comfortable to me.
Not sure how you feel about the endless ROM update of Galaxy S, at least you dont have to deals with lag or fragile system files. No battery drain or GPS tweak. All features work fine on stock.
Cannot predict the future but turn to WP7 is a good move of Nokia, hope their device come out soon.

j3ffmcl34n said:
(Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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yea I cant wait to play Modern Warfare 7 too

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
How do you like WP7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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Its not too simple. iOS is too simple. I came from BB to iPhone to Android and now on wp7. And as somebody already stated, Android & iPhone feel somehow....primitive? Its a wierd concept, and I have to give MS a lot of credit here. Always liked their zune/metro UI and the phone is quite the breath of fresh air. The way you interact [through] the interface is untouchable by anything else to me. Its a very simple design, but it feels very engaging and satisfying, while remaining very quick to accomplish tasks ect. It really is like the commercials say: a phone to save us from our phones. Although you could easily get lost in the Xbox Live/games integration
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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As a techie/geek, I like to always look at what else is out there, and have tried most platforms at least for awhile (including webOS ect). I don't think it will overtake anything in the near future, but I do think over the next 12-18 months it will no longer be easy to ignore (kind of like what happened to android). After the Nokia announcement especially I think that it will grow quite rapidly. The OS is the first released OS that has felt more solid/responsive than the iOS. The tiles didn't appeal to me at first glance but you just gotta play with it once, and yer hooked.
Android is really nice and powerful, and fun to tinker with, but it still feels sort of half baked, and glued together. Even on the highest end devices it never quite felt professional. And I'm still a big fan of it just because I like to tinker and play with my UI's sometimes. However, after using wp7 for only a few days, its really hard to go back and play with my nexus one.
I also think you will see more professional looking & functioning apps compared to Android. This is something only controlled OS platforms can really benefit from, and why iOS has so many great looking apps, and why they all seem to function so well within the OS. Its easier for developers to create high functioning apps with a great UI when the phones aren't all over the place in skins, UI versions, Hardware types, API's used ect. I have apps on my wp7 that look better than anything I've seen on any other platform already (check out Cocktail Flow if you get a wp7 phone). There are some EXCELLENT apps on android, but for every one of those, there are 5,000 crappy ones that look and feel like they were designed by a couple of real life monkeys, and only serve to add to the ever-so-slight lag of the non-graphic accelerated OS.
Because it will be better for developers, I think that will also make it better for consumers.
Will WP7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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Not "favored" in the near term as most power windows users will stick to WM6.5 as it is more feature laden. wp7 is brand new, and as such is missing quite a few more in depth features. Many of these will be addressed over 2011. Once wp7 has been out for awhile and has the power WM has, then I would say yes it will be very attractive to business/power users. The Office integration is very good although still with a few issues.
Although the current implementation is still more powerful than what iOS and Android have for MS documents. And the One Note integration is tops.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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I personally was very happy about this. I think HTC, Samsung, LG ect all make good handsets, but Nokia has a great track record of creating very high quality and reliable handsets; and their integrated services (ovi maps ect) are extremely powerful and accurate, and will be a HUGE asset for anybody wanting a wp7 phone. Nokias huge global reach will help wp7 grow quickly, and also force the other manufacturers to start taking their wp7 arms seriously, instead of forcing all their attention on their Android lineups.
Once they announced this partnership, in the wp7 world, **** basically got real. A lot of people were mad, but I see this as a huge benefit to both companies, and especially the potential and current customers of wp7. The other manufacturers will also need to up their game on their wp7 handsets if they don't want to look like a bargain basement alternative to what Nokia can produce.

j3ffmcl34n said:
iPhone 3g - 3gs - Android (Galaxy S) user here.
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Happy iPhone 4 user here - also an HTC HD7 and HTC HD2
How do you like Wp7? I'm genuinely interested to hear.
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I love WP7. It's so refined. It's so refined that it feels luxurious. The keyboard...at least on my HD7...is second to none. The screen transitions and animations are second to none. The auto-rotation is the best there is. I especially love IE.
WP7 is just a pure pleasure to use. I'm glad to have it.
How is it compared to ios? Android? Is it "too" simple?
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WP7 doesn't yet have all of the features those others have, but it does have a solid and perfectly function core system. I love my new iPhone, It's probably the best system ever created. It exudes quality through and through. But I feel WP7 is smoother and cleaner in general operation of the core system. Right now, the apps can't yet compare to what the iPhone offers.
As for Android...It's a perfectly fine system that lacks the refinement of either the iPhone or WP7. I use Android on my HD2 and love it in that context. I don't believe I could bring myself to actually buy an Android phone, though, over iPhone or WP7. I was considering the new and unreleased Motorola Atrix 4G for all the new tech and power. But having Android, I was like...meh...and went for the older tech iPhone 4. That's how I feel about Android. It's just not impressive enough to warrant a phone purchase. But I do love it on my HD2.
Do you see it as a viable contender in the near future? (Ive been thinking about wanting to give MW7 a whirl.)
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I see WP7 as serious challenger to iPhone. Its core system already outshines iOS in general user experience and quality of operation. That isn't to say WP7 is perfect. Right now it has a few glaring bugs. If MS deals with the bugs and adds the features, it has the potential to dethrone iPhone for best phone. That is, if MS can keep up the system quality and tightly control provider hardware quality.
Will Wp7 be favored by the business community considering it has "word" and "office"?
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I have no view on this.
How do you feel about the Nokia/MS joint venture?
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It's a genuinely positive sign for good things to come for WP7. I'm a little concerned about the freedom Nokia has with WP7; what they will do. But hardware-wise, I think MS hit the jackpot.
Will these 2 company's together be able to make something truly great and not just be a competitor? Could they bring new innovations to the market?
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Time will tell. The potential is there, but what Nokia does with its freedom of customization with WP7 is the key.

WP7 is definately a contender. I think it will take the smartphone scne by storm here in the next two years. Microsoft have finally caught on and know what they have to do. They seem to be sticking to it, we just have to sit back and watch. OS seems very solid. A few bugs but thats expected. As far as iOS and Android is concerned, they are abou the same Android is just more open than iOS.
But WP7 is only going forward not to say the other OS' arent. But im sure WP will excel past the competitors once they work out the bugs.

So an OS can be dated when it offers more? When it's already more refined and feature friendly as opposed to flashy and user friendly?
WP7 has potential ... but it amazes me how some folks ignore the obvious and talk up something while talking down something more proven.
To suggest that iOS and Android is, somehow, more "primitive" is sort of laughable. WP7 still has hope .. its been lackluster and unimpressive so far, however. The masses have spoken. I still think 2011 could he huge for the platform ... but a lot has to happen. Directly with WP7 and with not .... speficially outside factors. People don't seem to be letting up on Android ... iOS still the defacto end result .... but WP7 is sorta like the Wii ... the idea is there ... it might even end up outselling everyone .... but it's just different. Honestly feels like a last gen experience ... and not somethng catered to adults. No matter how smooth things can be at times. The Live business is really nothing more than a selling point ... and not a good one at that. Hype, for the kids.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

Microsoft have laid an impressive foundation stone with WP7, the UI oozes quality and professionalism, I am only waiting for one more feature (skydrive document sync) which I will get this year. Beyond that, my HD7 fully meets my own particular needs fully right now. I have used Android and always thought it was very similar to WM6.5, my HTC Desire was very laggy and bombed out on me twice with corrupt SD card problems, losing all my data (despite using the best quality 16Gb cards I could find). I also found that over time, the Desire got very laggy unless you really kept on top of what was running in the background meaning frequent soft resets, in comparison, I never feel the need to reset my HD7 (it has reset itself a couple of times, but hey WP7 is brand new!!).
I have not used Iphones much but I do have an Ipad, which is OK but iOS just feels a little dated to me. As for the Nokia thing, I am hoping for some really top of the line industrial design from them, all being well I fully expect to be using a Microkia WP7 phone this time next year!

Not quite ready for prime time...
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.

edved said:
I think it's half-baked. Not quite ready for prime time. I've been using Windows Mobile or whatever iteration it was in 2002 for a long time and I feel like they've taken one step forward and two steps back with this OS.
Cartoonish, is a good way of putting it. Hopefully, some d**k doesn't tell me to piss-off because of my dissent, as happened to me here earlier this week!
my2cents.
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Agreed, and Microsoft's glacial pace of development doesn't help things, nor does their backpedaling on the update process. After I got screwed on yet another trash WM device that was never going to see bug fixes or updates I vowed I'd never again waste my money on WM and I didn't, getting several other devices instead. The biggest selling point for WP7 was that Microsoft would push updates and any user could get them. Then it's no, that's not entirely true. The carrier can block an update if they want to but Microsoft will push the next one through whether the carrier likes it or not. Which we all know will never fly because the carriers have, can and will make stuff up to achieve their aims and since Microsoft has already caved once, they'll cave again and again until, just like bad old days, every device gets one update that may or may not do anything relevant and we all get to sit around and wonder if we should wait or cut our losses and get something else that actually works. Being a Focus owner and given that Microsoft has annouced that there won't be any updates worth talking about until at least the 2nd half of 2011, I wonder that now. Think the Focus will be relevant by the time multitasking is available or will it be "incapable of running the latest system"? I'd say it's about 50/50 given the track records of everyone involved, including Samsung who has an even WORSE record for updates than Microsoft. This isn't some two-bit mom & pop dev shop located above the pizza place on the boardwalk, it's freaking Microsoft and they have what, 4 guys working on this on the days when two of them aren't working on Foxpro? Sure seems that way and I'm tired of reading all the half baked excuses from anyone and everyone who thinks they have a clue about what Microsoft does. This is a company with some of the best minds in the industry and billions of dollars and they're utterly incapable of doing anything that matters in a timely fashion because "they've been burned in the past so they're planning their steps carefully"? Give me a break! WM died years ago, if this system is "just a couple months old" like I keep reading, what were they doing for the past, oh, 3 or 4 years? You know, while iPhone and Android utterly consumed the entire smartphone market and Android became, and remains for the foreseeable future, the best heir to Windows Mobile? That's right, nothing. "Microsoft: Think Nothing"

What some 6.5 advocates fail to realize is that WP7 allows all its features (even if you consider it to be lacking) to be functional. WM6.x was so unreliable, and unresponsive at times, that sure, it had the features... But you couldn't run most of them without the OS crashing... You had to flash a ROM just to fix a feature... Yeah we got to the point of automating the cab installs, but the OS was far behind in terms of usage. So, I think WP7 is the definite step in the right direction, not two steps back, but leaps forward.

Why WP7 is 'failing'.

Or rather, not doing as well as I feel it should. This is just my opinion.
The answer is whiny developers.
From the beginning, all we've heard is 'MS didn't release this API, that's why we don't have x app by y developer'. And then time and again, so small time devs give us their version of the app mysteriously not needing said API to make it happen. Sometimes, it's even Microsft themselves shooting WP7 in the foot.
I'm no dev myself but doesn't it seem strange to you that:
1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
And the list goes on. Makes you wonder if:
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
Smooth transitions and a badass UI only take you so far.
MS needs to step-up their integration as well while I'm on my soap box. WP7 really does need to be better than WM6.5 in every way except stylus support IMHO.
Sorry to any I may have pissed off with this rant but I'm jetlagged and bored right now.
Have a good day.

I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)

I don't think it is failing, its just loyal WM users are hedging about a purchase (including me) because there's not a lot that they can do with the device as of this time. I personally think MS-Nokia partnership bodes well for the platform. I imagine Nokia porting a lot of their excellent apps to the WP7 platform (OviMaps using Bing data anyone? for all i care they could just use the ovimaps platform, its good as it is). I personally think its exciting and I'm looking forward to a Nokia device running WP7.

I guess it all depends on what your looking for. I dont need google maps, the preinstalled one works for me. I call/text/email all my friends or see them weekly so I could care less for facebook. I twitter a little bit but the apps in the market are sufficient. I keep my phone on vibrate most of the time but I guess it would be nice to use on sundays.
The only part thats needs some improvements to me are the browser, multitasking and I would love a remote desktop app. Thats the 3 things from android that I miss.

otech said:
I firstly don't agree that it's failing. On the contrary I think it's actually doing better than I expected.
I was sold on WP7 before it was even released, as I have always used WMx and despite it's love hate relationship, was confident Microsoft Knew what the hate part was and were going to get rid of it.
When Microsoft apply themselves, the results are often amazing.
The thing is they are big, like my employer, and the bigger they are the less agile they are.
Specifically to your points.
Devs complaining about this limitation vs that etc are real issues that even I encountered just trying to make a simple live tile battery/signal meter. The APIs just simply mean it can't be done in any realistic way. In time these APIs will become available and the spectrum of apps available will follow suite.
For large software houses to invest time and money in significant apps for the platform, they want to make sure they are going to get the same or better ROI as with another platform. The larger the firm, the slower they are to get their stuff together, but since the nokia announcement a lot of the big apps are looking twice at the platform and starting to make an effort.
Angry Birds developers, I believe, were always going to make a WP7 version, they just didn't like microsoft assumption/leaking of that.
WP7, on most accounts, is not failing. Perhaps it's your own frustration of why the rest of the world don't know how good it really I'd that makes you feel that way?
Just my 2c ;-)
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Don't get me wrong otech, I put the 'failing' in quotation marks for a reason.
I know it's doing a lot better than most expected. I just get pissed when I got to trollish blogs like engadget and see the hate spewed. I have no real loyalty to MS, just loyalty to quality which WP7 is.
It just annoys when devs say such and such can't be done, yet it is being done already.
ROI is a cop-out as they can simply make ad-based games or apps. Don't some apps make more money in Zune marketplace compared to Android marketplace?
Yet Android market share is humongous. And why do they feel the need to also publish some snide comment about how they just can't develop for WP7 because the interest isn't there? It just re-enforces my view that these devs are whiny brats.

Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.

failing?
lol, more and more of my friends are now useing wp7 phones..

I don't really see why we need conspiracy theories where there are simpler explanations.
The main problem with satnav apps is that they cannot be ported simply because there's no native code access. Sygic or TomTom or whoever will need to create and maintain a completely separate fork, with almost nothing being reused between their WP7 and all other versions. That's expensive, and with WP7's tiny userbase it just doesn't make any sense. It's very similar for hardcore games.
Microsoft could finance these projects, but for some reason they chose not to. One of the reasons may be that operators are quite happy selling their solutions for subscription. Navigon already did a satnav app for WP7, but they don't distribute it themselves.

1/. We have no official Google Maps app yet A to B maps and navigon exist?
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Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
2/. We have no facebook chat in our Facebook app yet Flory and FIM exist. Same for gtalk?
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Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
3/. Angry birds devs kept stalling and stalling yet some small timer brings us Chicks and Vixens?
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The game sucks
4/. We can't have custom ringtones yet touchexplorer makes it as simple as copying and pasting to a different folder?
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read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
5/. No oifficial GoogleVoice app yet there are at least 4 decent attempts in the marketplace?
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You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
1/. MS just released WP7 to stall for time until W8 which is supposed to be able to run on ARM and so doesn't really care how well W7 does aslong as they start gaining mindshare in prep for W8.
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SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
2/. Devs really want other OSes to do better and so aren't trying hard on WP7?
Don't give me that, not enough users BS. If your app becomes a hit, everyone will buy it or use it and cash money is cash money, no matter the user base.
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how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
3/. Are we really going to have to wait until Mango to get all the apps that really should be there now?
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What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading

There is some confusion in this thread over Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.
Yes, Windows 8 will be capable of running on an ARM processor. No, it does not make sense for a full blown OS to be running on your phone, even if it can, because it doesn't make a for a good small touchscreen experience. There would always need to exist two different marketplaces.
I have not heard anything more than speculation on Windows Phone 8. But I am certain that if and ever in the near future MS were to launch WP8, it would all be part of the same ecosystem. It would be suicide in this market not to continue compatability. Obviously at some point there will need to be a cut off in forward compatability, but I don't see that happening any time soon. Not soon enough to start regretting a WP7 purchase.

Vintage144 said:
Unless your a delivery driver , do you really need google maps to find the local starbucks?
Please , let facebook go for a day ,Im sure not knowing your friends farted is eating you alive!
The game sucks
read this forum and learn, I have custom ringtone on my Focus , learn!
You bought the phone , use it to talk , you still have to pay for the service , google voice is a joke!
SEEMS LIKE A HUGE WASTE OF MONEY TO COME OUT WITH WP7 FIRST ,
how do you figure devs want other os's to do better ,I want them all to do good ,that means more money for me!
What apps are so important , the ones you listed above? My god go back to ATT
tell them you want an iphone and you dont want a windows phone or android "i want a phone that has what Steve Jobs Feels what I should have!
I would suggest not reading engadget or gizmodo , apple lackeys , they have nothing to say about android or wp7 thats worth reading
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Are you serious or did you just want to troll/have no reading comprehension skills?
1/. I'm not a delivery truck driver but I was trying to make my way around Germany last week and needed turn by turn navigation while trying to find a restaurant in town to eat at. I wonder what would've helped out...? Oh yeah!! Working maps outside of the US that provided voice guidance.
2/.This was about how WP7 is supposed to be FB integrated yet the apps are better on both IOS and Android. And I'm sorry you don't have friends to talk to from time to time that would make FB chat on your cell an asset since it's blocked by most offices.
3/. The issue of the whole article is devs. Not the quality of the games. Learn to read!!
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
5/. You really are a moron to not see the advantages of google voice. I have unlimited everything on my plan but that does me no good when I'm overseas, something I doubt you will ever have happen to you as I doubt people want your brand of ignorance exported.
6/. All capslocks sentences get no response.
7/. I don't think you're a dev if that's what you're implying.
8/. This makes no sense. I've never been on ATT. I don't like Android as it's a clone of 2 OS, wm 6.5 and IOS and the only other OS I've used extensively is Symbian besides wm6.5. Don't assume because you end up looking like an ass in the process.
My points are valid, devs have behaved like brats with WP7. Which has less limitations that IOS did back in the day yet they worked wonders for that OS.

lekki said:
4/. As do I. I indicated as much by telling you the method to get them with touchexplorer. I'm beginning to doubt your sanity...
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I did a search for "Touchexplorer" and Touch Explorer" in the market and didn't find any results.

rhory said:
Interestingly a Co-Pilot sat-nav guy, told me a few weeks ago that they will not be writing a program for WP7, seemingly they seem to think as the OP has stated that 7 is a holding ploy for the release of WP8. Now that really would be some sort of PR disaster to come.
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This seems quite a silly argument. Anyone with any knowledge of Microsoft history would know that it is highly unusual for them to break from a legacy platform. WP8 is likely simply be a natural iteration on the WP7 system.
To my knowledge MS has done exactly 2 legacy breaks in it's history. NT and WP7 that's it every other OS they've developed has been a evolution rather than a revolutionary break.
WP8 will just be WP7 with the NoDo and Mango updates might get some additional interface customization but I suspect it will be able to run on current WP7 handsets.
That's just the way MS does stuff. The hard compatibility break between WM6.5 and WP7 is just not business as usual for MS.
I think it's highly unlikely that any app written for WP7 won't work on WP8 when it finally materializes.

IMHO windows phone is like the iphone now. Wp8 will not kill wp7. It will be the same ecosystem and all users will be able to upgrade. Wether will it run or not on old devices i dont know but i dont think its reasonable to say they will kill everything they´ve done with wp7 next year. Windows Phone is not like Windows mobile. Forget the old microsoft. Things are different and better now (god bless competition).

Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.

I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.

pillsburydoughman said:
I wish people would stop treating phones like status symbols or popularity contests. Does the phone do what you need it to do? Yes.. buy it. No don't buy it.
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I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.

I wouldn't say its failing but the OS is still fairly new and its a slightly new experience compared to iOS, S60, and even Android.
As time goes on, with more support and more phones from Nokia, WP7 should gain some more popularity.

lekki said:
I'm sorry but your post has no relevance to this thread.
It's about whiny developers, not that my phone is the best.
I knew the limitations before it came out as did anyone else on this forum who did the smart thing and researched before buying.
I just don't like the developers smear campaign against WP7 and MS. I also don't like the blogs smear campaign against it either.
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Sorry your reply makes no sense.. and I quote
These are just the opinions of a WP7 user that doesn't really like having to defend his decision to buy WP7, an awesome OS being crippled by stigma against MS, ignorance on the part of vendors and laziness by MS.
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Nobody cares why you bought WP7, I can only assume you bought it because you wanted one. It's not a matter of attack or defending anything, I see no reason why you're bothered that you have to "defend" your decision to purchase something.
Funny how you complain about whiny developers yet you're whining yourself.

lekki said:
Are you guys sure WP8 won't just be W8 stripped down?
It really seems like MS is really going to go hard with mobility in their next round of OS releases. Focusing on tablets and phones and building on that.
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Even if WP8 will be W8, so what? All current APIs are managed code, applications can be transferred without even recompiling. Since there is no native code access it doesn't matter which core the OS will use.

Official: Mango Public Unveiling on May 24th

Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389

does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?

andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
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I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey

I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.

Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.

Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
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Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.

FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
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Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.

The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.

Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
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People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.

FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.

you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.

Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.

It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...

N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...

N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Click to collapse
Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Click to collapse
Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why should I be pissed, sorry?

vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Click to collapse
Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).

Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!

vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,

So I have become disillusioned with my HTC HD7 Windows Phone 7

Hi,
So this is a post to say how I have become disillusioned with my WP7.5 device.
I love the HD7 with WP7.5, for what it does, it does it well and it fits my one required:
"Feels like a well integrated phone device"
Unlike Android phones which feel like I am looking at a nerdy linux desktop (which is cool) but I just want to use a device that feels like a single device.
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
My device is great but the OS has flaws, like why the hell is there one volume for all OS sections?
Why is when I look at a contact the phone number (the most important bit) is a tiny font?
There is a raft of other stuff like that out there. Other stuff it does really well though and I have always been impressed by it which is why I will keep my device and use it for development but I will be honest, I have a Sony Xperia S phone as well now which is getting rooted tonight and may well end up in more use.

Cool Story, So...
So if you want to take hours off your life, meaninglessly tweaking your phone's OS, then you're so in the wrong boat. I ran myself so wacko for almost 2 years on Android, and WM before it. So I'm quite happy with life this way. The white-on-black theme in most apps makes the text stand out so much better to me, regardless of size.
So I also don't understand why you're so concerned about not being able to see a contact's phone number so well. It says so in big white letters above it, "Call Mobile" (etc.). So if you want to call them by number then open the dial pad instead.
So I actually love the one-for-all volume setting, as opposed to the Android "Media volume", that you can't even readily control unless / until you're playing something (except if you opt for a battery-sucking widget to track it)... then good luck remembering where you last left it.

LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.

My 15 month old HD7 still works, even after hearing about IOS6, Jellybean, and me only getting 7.8 instead of WP8....sorry to hear about yours ....
Sent from The ACSyndicate Tower using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Arthur Hucksake said:
LOL Always love how iOS and WP7ers slate Android for actually giving you options on what you do with your phone. LOL
It has many flaws, but the customising options are certainly not one of them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy

I agree with ballanda123 about the phone number font, "call to mobile" has a big font, you can easily press it

creamy said:
Thanks for the input Arthur. Its nice to know that there's always a fandroid waiting in the wings, simply itching to sling his penneth worth into the fray. I mean if you didnt hang around in the forums of the other platforms then you wouldnt be able to defend your favoured O/S so vehemently now would you.
I'm just surprised you have the time, when you should be scouring the net for the radio or ROM that will finally make your device work properly
Kind Regards,
Creamy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you CAN do that. That is my point. You have the option of customising everything, including the software on the handset.
I have a HTC Titan btw, so i'm not a fandroid. I just don't see how having real options as being a bad thing.

I think the OP has a point - WP could use another Mango-style update, where MS fix lots of minor issues.
e.g. two small issues that I come across every day:
When I forward an email, I cannot edit the original text. I use copy and paste as a workaround - anyone else got a better solution?
Agree with OP about the volume controls. My WP is now my main portable audio player, either with headphones or standalone speaker. I have to keep the volume high because the headphone jack volume is relatively low. System sounds, such as calendar alerts, become very loud! Maybe some type of normalisation could also fix this.
It's basically a symptom of WP being a new OS, with only one major update so far since launch. Hopefully, MS will address the small issues in WP8 as well as adding headline features.

Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Come on, HOW hard can it be to at least make a list of features we don't have compared to other OS and add a few on top of it.
If WP8 after all these backlash, WP7.8 fiasco and kernel change melodrama is still going to be a catch waste game, I am happy with my WP7.5 Titan. Can't keep shelling out money in hope of "In future we will have..."
As long as OP's post goes - I partially agree. If certain features don't rock your boat, it just doesn't. He hasn't made those stereotypical post about 'oh my days, I don't have that bird games latest version, I hate the phone'.

I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......

fatclue said:
I still don't get it. All these posters who are belly-aching about their phones not doing this or not getting that. Were these problems not present BEFORE last Wednesday? Did Ballmer send out a "Death-Ray" virus to all WP7 phones to cripple them? You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads, so go on with your lives people! Until I can attach a PDF to an email I can't go back to WP7 and I LOVE the OS whether it gets 7.8 or 10.9 or whatever.
People got so caught up with the rumors and now they can't see the trees for the forest because they're so pissed. Ask yourself one stupid question: does this phone do what I saw it to do the day I bought it? If the answer is yes......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.

agree with drupad. i still love my titan and the screen and smoothness of how it works. when i got the phone everyone was talking about the future and developement and new apps and no fragmentation etc. in one fell swoop all that got swept away.apps like iplayer, tvcatchup,poweramp, banking,don't look like they are going to happen. so many people have their own favorites they are not going to see. i was fortunate in my contract staggers that renewal coincided with my titan and now also my one x(the first android i've owned).i also have a renewal due with w8 release but unless i'm convinced otherwise i'll be looking else where.previous to the titan i was on a TP2. so i've experienced MS OS customer care before.they keep chasing and promising.would be nice to see them deliver.

drupad2drupad said:
Overall, WP8 for me to be my choice of OS for the next phone, has to:
a) stop playing this catch up. May be make all the well paid engineers and designers for once sit around a table, with a cuppa, give them iPhone, Android AND BBs and say "Right lads, use these toys and we want EVERY FREAKING FEATURE that they keep boasting about. We don't want exactly like that, but we want it better".
b) give some headline features. Again in that same round table talk, someone should stand up and say "Yeah mate, I get all that feature crap. We will load this WP8 with all the trivival 2005 features including even that freaking bluetooth transfer that they moan about, BUT lets also add 15 NEW features that none of these toys seem to have"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As much as yours makes sense, it won't happen

drupad2drupad said:
I think you've vented in the wrong thread
What most of us who've posted here mean as a median sentiment is:
We love the phone as it is, however, there were bits of things here and there which we thought might improve in follow up updates. However, now that won't improve for sure. So although we love the phone as it is, it will be a gamble to jump on WP8 with wishful features.
I for one, won't jump to WP8, if I can't attach a PDF to email, if I can't edit email that I forward, if I can't get more than 1 month worth of emails synced in hotmail, if I can't get Skydrive better integrated. NOT because I don't like the OS, but because I think these feature are something that could have been addressed in WP7.6/7.7/7.8/7.9 - but now that there is only on WP7.8 which most likely wont address this.
AND if WP8 will be the same story, I would rather wait out till I see a "basic" feature complete phone before I leave WP7 for WP8.
One thing MSFT has taught me is: Buy our phones for what they are. Not for what we make you dream you could do. This is when I've realised the evil of closed source software. With open source, other devs can add/remove feature look at Cynogenmods (and bugs too at times!). BUT with WP, even if devs want they cant add features that easily and flawlessly.
Still at the end of the day, I am a HUGE WP fan and love the way they are pushing forward BUT I am a consumer first, end user next.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I vented on the correct thread. Look at the OP, he states he loves his phone but goes on to say how "disillusioned" he is now. What changed? Did he wake up one day and realize he made a bad purchase? Probably not but there a lot of posters who have railed at MS for not giving them what they THOUGHT they were going to get. I'm with you on the PDF situation. As I posted, I'm not going back in unless this primary need is met. But I realized this shortcoming before the announcement last week. I was using a workaround with Handyscan but the camera in the DVP is simply atrocious so that was no longer a suitable option. I miss my Dell but I can't afford to be without this basic function so I'll plod through another year or whatever with WinMo until Adobe gets its act straight. Yes, I blame Adobe because I can attach Handyscan PDF's to email so it ain't Outlook.

finalzero said:
What I have become disillusioned about is the vagueness from Microsoft around Windows Phone devices, the sudden departure of something like Chevron Unlock which really pissed a lot of us developers off and slow response to the changing market.
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Click to collapse
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
finalzero said:
My device is great but the OS has flaws
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Click to collapse
fatclue said:
You either loved your phone or you didn't. You either hated your phone or you didn't. There's obviously no middle ground, judging from these threads
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.

WP8 will go hard with features and here's why: it is based on the NT kernel. The NT kernel supports far more hardware and software features than the current CE kernel. Its true that the CE kernel once did have all the features we're clamoring for but with a major performance hit. This won't be the case with the NT kernel.

My primary annoyance with my experience with Android was mainly the constant customization that was available. It was fun for the first couple of months, but I ended up constantly changing things because I couldn't decide on what I liked.
I switched over to WP7 last December and it's been a god-send for me. The design is simple yet effective, and I appreciate how MS limited the amount of customization I could do. It kept me focused on actually enjoying the phone and OS for what it was for once.

magicsquid said:
To be fair, I think the OP explains why he is becoming 'disillusioned'.
The OP says his device is great but the OS has some flaws. This sounds like 'middle ground' to me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep.
I still enjoy it and most importantly, it works, with it's flaws, it still does most things right.
I just wish MS take note and try to incorporate good bits from other phone OSes. I know they want to go it alone and prove they can build a decent mobile OS but it's still in it's early days (trust me as a developer who has worked with WP7.5 I feel it's got a long way to go).
However Microsoft have a strategy and I am sure with Windows 8 being released into the wild and the zoo we call the "Corporate Enterprise" it should finally come together as a common platform (Microsoft Technology, Microsoft Desktops, Microsoft Mobile Connectivity).
It's a changing landscape as well, don't forget the dawn of the pads is already upon us and again Microsoft was slow to respond (but respond they did with what could be a set of stunning Win8 mobile devices...I hope).
Well I got my Xperia P here and to be honest it's just too cluttered for me, feels like my linux desktop and not a well integrated phone OS (mind you Sony have done a pretty good job at trying to make it feel like a smart phone device).
This leaves me with Apple iPhone 5, which I might consider if it weren't for the fact that I think under all that fluff the stuff is ****. But they have executed the whole package well and if there is one thing the likes of MS and the multitude of Jap Manufacturers can learn it's how to make a consumer device and platform properly.
IF Nokia don't seriously effk things up, the Lumia 900 or the next Nokia WP8 device is on my list.

Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.

sitizenx said:
Is the Windows Phone 7 forum now a personal therapy forum? Does everyone that all of a sudden wants more features AFTER they've bought the phone really need to start a new thread? Hey people BEFORE you buy a phone check it out and see whether it can do the critical functions you want. If you still want to ***** about the lack of one feature or another find the appropriate thread in the sea of billions of other whiners and add to that one. This is getting so tiresome.
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Click to collapse
Couldn't agree more. Hope you have some bibs handy.