Develop Bugs

It's not the size of the hardware, it's how you use it.

I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.

My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.

No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.

yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.

z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
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Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.

orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
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Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
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matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.

orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
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To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.

WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.

ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
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Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Click to collapse
way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?

^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.

Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.

I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.

Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.

Do we really need a quad-core phone?

Hello,
I'm an existing HD2 user using CM7 ROM, and satisfy with the speed, it can fulfill my daily usage (mainly web surfing and games).
Actually I already placed an order for One X with Solo headphone, but I just questioned myself, do I (we) really need such a powerful smartphone?
From my point of view, One X comes with larger and better LCD, faster CPU, more RAM, much better camera, that's it. Compare to my daily usage, I think it won't have much difference except the LCD & camera.
I can't said One X is very expensive, but if HD2 can serve me well, should I go ahead to replace it with One X?
I'm in HK, and what I can get is 10% off from the promotion price (HKD5698 * 0.9), and I'm going to sell the Solo headphone too (around HKD800), so the phone is around HKD4xxx only, which is quite attractive.
What do you think?

It's not about need, it's about do we want! My I9000 works still well, but i want more speed, bigger screen and much better camera!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda premium

I don't need a ferrari, but I still want one! I'm sure we could all get by with an old school nokia but like most on the forum, we want the last tech

It depends up on your need. If you play a lot of HD Games, Tons and apps and widgets and still want to run fast then Yeah you need it

I'm sure game/app devs will soon be making the most of the quad-core power. I think by the end of the year quad-core will be more or less the standard.

Yes, many of us will never need all cores but it's the must-have effect.
But there are of course games in HD which really need full power.

Need?......Not really.
Want?......Hell yeah.

craftycarper1 said:
Need?......Not really.
Want?......Hell yeah.
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Exactamundo!

i buy quad core to future proof myself since i do not change phones all that often

People have used the "Do we really need..." phrase at every single step of every single technological development since the dawn of time!

From my experience with several single-core, dual-core and quad-core phones I say:
1) If you want a fluid UI with daily-use buy a dual-core nexus phone. Or just take another dual-core phone, root it, and install a stock-like rom with ICS and above. It will work great and fast.
2) If you have a single-core phone, It will not going to run fast with any of the roms based on my exprience with HTC Desire HD and three Galaxy S phones - they just have a crappy-old processors and you need to trash them out, seriously.
3) If you want to play some Ultra-HD 3D games with your phone you need a quad-core phone.
I know that the number of cores are irrelevant to the overall speed of the processor but in android mobile phones it does - because most of the phones with a single core is older than most of the phones with dual core that older than all the quad-core phone. Thus, the number of cores that raising in this case indicates that the processor is newer and more powerful.

yep

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Linux
I waiting for Ubuntu for Android app to become available. Then I will need four core phone
If you not a player you probably will not need computer any more. Just a monitor

In my case, i REALLY needed a new phone cuz my single core X8 was lagging, hanging and rebooting nearly everyday...I WAS going to get a new phone anyway, so why not get something which would never make me pay for it ?

If you just txt and call then you don't need a quad core or even a dual core but if ya like me then u will need a powerful handset as I control all my computers and network, emails, Nas and router and I do some gaming. So yes I can see the need basicly I run my life from my phone and the faster the better in my eyes.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

I've heard the a15 s4 one s dual core and and nexus 10 are very fast? Perhaps a dual core a15 I'd all that's needed.
Sent from my HTC One X using xda premium

Is Qualcomm cheating in Vellamo?

Some food for thought,,
Is Qualcomm cheating in Vellamo?
A few days ago we were happy to report about the first set of leaked HTC One X scores on an American device powered by Qualcomm’s new 28nm S4 chip.
The scores look quite good for Qualcomm, but since we got hold of an Asus Transformer Prime we decided to dig a bid deeper. Both Nvidia and Qualcomm do not want to get involved in official fight but we were quite surprised with what we learned. We also talked to some engineers that want to remain unnamed and we came up with a few interesting things.
The fastest CPU in Quadrant is Hummingbird S5PC110 from Nexus S as tested here.
Since we have tested this phone you can easily tell that this benchmark doesn't really use two or four cores properly. In this test S4 scores 4920 where the Tegra 3 based Transformer Prime scores 3954 and Tegra 2 scores 2154 on a custom ROM Optimus 2X.
The second test is the Vellamo benchmark was a bit more disturbing as once you run it you see Qualcomm ads all over it. This didn't give us much confidence and it turns out that Qualcomm has a lot of power over this particular benchmark.
Asus Transformer Prime scores 1408, while Qualcomm in Vellamo scores over 2000, our guess is between 2200 and 2300 as we didn't see the full number. Our good buddy Anand compared the One S powered by the S4 as well as the One X powered by Tegra 3 and you can see that Tegra 3 on this phone usually ends up faster or tied with the S4. It is faster in Sunspider Javascript benchmark 0.9.1, loses by a few points in Browsermark to S4 based HTC One S and dominates GLBenchmark. There is no 2X performance lead that we saw in the leaked S4 benches and frankly we see no point in taking Vellamo seriously until the issue is addressed.
Our engineering friends are telling us that Velamo disables some hardware acceleration in compositing Deap Sea Canvas and See the sun canvas subtest. Honeycomb and ICS support hardware acceleration by default and disabling this probably hurt the general score. One can argue that it hurts S4 scores as well, but it definitely hurts Tegra 3 more. The benchmark isn't flushing commands in the Pixel Blender subtest and there is a suspicion that this might help Qualcomm S4 to gain a better score.
The most important issue is the fact that it is unclear how Vellamo scores sub test scores. In Third party benchmarks such as Sun Spider and Google V8 it turns out that Vellamo penalizes high Google V8 scores and if your score gets too high in V8, the general score gets lower. There are a lot of benchmarks out there and some of the ones that like more cores include Antutu, CF benchmark and Moonbat.
French enthusiasts managed to run Antutu here, and Tegra 3 phone scores 10597, while the S4 based HTC One S scores 6458. This doesn't look so good for the phone that is based on S4 cores that should go after ARM’s upcoming A15 and it looks like that it cannot really beat the A9-based Tegra 3. In the real world, as long as the application is aware of four cores, there is a good chance that Tegra 3 will end up faster than the S4.
Naturally if you are reading this from the US and you really like your LTE from AT&T or Verison, I guess that you won’t have much choice and you will get the HTC One X with Qualcomm S4 as this chip also supports LTE. In the US it’s all about LTE and in Europe despite the fact that countries like Austria have LTE for more than a year now, even at €50 for 40GB there is almost no interest whatsoever. Networks need to put more advertising money and make 4G cool and it might happen. Of course, the lack of 4G devices is also an issue, but technology has a way of catching up.
The story gets even better when you know that there are lot of former ATI employees who take care of Adreno graphics and if natural selection and theory of evolution have taught us anything, it is that Nvidia and ATI are sworn enemies in any universe. Some readers might see a pinch of poetic justice in all of this, as Nvidia was accused of tweaking its GPU drivers to score more in PC benchmarks years ago.
Tudor Brown, the president of ARM that we meet a few years back at GlobalFoundries Dresden fab, once said that ARM does not want to get involved in GHz fight and this is now exactly what is going on, as punters are using benchmarks to prove of A is faster than B. Frankly I would be more concerned about battery life that I can get from a brand new phone as we got from five day battery life on feature phones to a day or so of battery life, and with LTE and heavy use, even this can go down to a few hours at best. If I found myself in Qualcomm’s shoes, this is what I would emphasize, the new 28nm process and energy efficiency, not skewed benchmarks.
Phones should be about the overall user experience, but how can you benchmark experience? It's a very subjective category and can hardly be expressed with cold numbers and statistics. We are not talking about PC components and the race for more performance, smartphones should be viewed as a complete package, battery life, build quality, UI and design come into play. Sheer performance is just one aspect and for many users it is still not the deciding factor and we believe it should not be.
In any case, watching the phone market will definitely be fun in the months to come.
Click to expand...
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Source: Here

arthasz said:
Some food for thought,,
Source: Here
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haha fun stuff ill quote some of it in my thread if you don't mind thanks
to be honest this is exactly what i felt the moment i thought the score, its ridiculous
glad we got confirmation from some devs too
---------- Post added at 12:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:56 AM ----------
speaking of which, their Adreno3x series is far from ready
Qualcomm has Imagination
Apparently they might go with PowerVR for the windows s4 devices, i find this hard to believe
Semi accurate is part of this fud game

Now things make sense. That's why people don't blindly trust these benchmark score. Try real work applications you'll better idea of the device like running 12 HD video in T3 etc.

I've always trusted Antutu
& apparently, the tegra 3 version is a beast, scoring over 10,000!
My SGS2 scores just 4,700 on gingerbread & around 5,700 on ICS.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

My overclocked (1,4 GHz) Desire Z (ICS with Sense 4.0A) got around 1 200 points in Vellamo, in graph it was just above Transformer Prime. Qualcomm must cheating.
Edit: added screenshots (due to my bad memory - it was just above while at 1,4 GHz ), at 1,6 GHz it is will be better than Prime (according to benchmark)

Reremnu said:
My overclocked (1,4 GHz) Desire Z (ICS with Sense 4.0A) got around 1 200 points in Vellamo, in graph it was just above Transformer Prime. Qualcomm must cheating.
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hahaha now that is crazy, disappointed that qualcomm took this direction they always been more transparent
actually its wrong that they make a test themselves it can never be considered impartial
snapdragon 4 cores are impressive as they are they don't need this kind of fud just because they don't have a quad ready

If this is really true, how about other benchmarks with other devices? can they be trusted?

One X or One XL for Europe

Apparently the One XL will be sold in Europe: http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/05/...d-for-europe-arrives-in-stores-in-early-june/
I just ordered an International One X about an hour before reading that.
I decided on the International One X, vs Rogers or AT&T models partly due to the much better potential for ROMs and the larger userbase.
If I had read that article an hour earlier, I likely would have held off on "pushing the purchase trigger" for at least a few more days to see if popularity might shift to the XL.
But for now at least, the One X w/ Tegra3 is more popular with more custom ROM potential.
LTE speeds are not a concern for me. And I have little regard for cores or GPU, just so long as they are "fast enough".
Anyway, for me this is just "another testbench phone" among 12 for testing my app and adding proper Qualcomm FM chip support. And when I go out I just grab whichever phone has the magic grand-fathered SIM chip in it at that time.

mikereidis said:
Apparently the One XL will be sold in Europe: http://www.unwiredview.com/2012/05/...d-for-europe-arrives-in-stores-in-early-june/
I just ordered an International One X about an hour before reading that.
I decided on the International One X, vs Rogers or AT&T models partly due to the much better potential for ROMs and the larger userbase.
If I had read that article an hour earlier, I likely would have held off on "pushing the purchase trigger" for at least a few more days to see if popularity might shift to the XL.
But for now at least, the One X w/ Tegra3 is more popular with more custom ROM potential.
LTE speeds are not a concern for me. And I have little regard for cores or GPU, just so long as they are "fast enough".
Anyway, for me this is just "another testbench phone" among 12 for testing my app and adding proper Qualcomm FM chip support. And when I go out I just grab whichever phone has the magic grand-fathered SIM chip in it at that time.
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One XL will mope the floor with the One X in terms of battery
but gizmo-do reported its no match for the One X/tegra3 in terms of gaming and performance @ 720p

hamdir said:
One XL will mope the floor with the One X in terms of battery
but gizmo-do reported its no match for the One X/tegra3 in terms of gaming and performance @ 720p
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Click to collapse
One XL has the aggressive memory management issue...

I doubt the XL will be released here in the UK but I will probably get it imported from Germany or something.
I don't game, so Tegra is a huge turn-off... Bigger process, runs hot, drivers are wonky...

damn, I just got my one x but really wanted the one xl, the one s just feels much faster than the one x, so I think the one xl will perform similarly...

godutch said:
damn, I just got my one x but really wanted the one xl, the one s just feels much faster than the one x, so I think the one xl will perform similarly...
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not nearly it has to deal with 4 times the pixels than the One S

hamdir said:
One XL will mope the floor with the One X in terms of battery
but gizmo-do reported its no match for the One X/tegra3 in terms of gaming and performance @ 720p
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Your comparing a Tegra GPU at 533Mhz against Adreno 225 at 400Mhz.
Im sure in the future, developers will be able to clock the Adreno higher than 500Mhz and still produce less heat due to the 28nm vs 40nm on Tegra.

MrPhilo said:
Your comparing a Tegra GPU at 533Mhz against Adreno 225 at 400Mhz.
Im sure in the future, developers will be able to clock the Adreno higher than 500Mhz and still produce less heat due to the 28nm vs 40nm on Tegra.
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sorry bro you have a good point there but you can't dismiss the power of the quad
just run glowball in 2 cores disabled and the frame rate will fall to the ground
shadowgun and many THD games are actually using the quads
for gaming T3 will always be better

Seems the European One XL will have only 16GB of storage.
While, the Australian version of One XL is mentioned as 32GB
http://www.htc.com/au/smartphones/htc-one-xl/#specs

MrPhilo said:
Your comparing a Tegra GPU at 533Mhz against Adreno 225 at 400Mhz.
Im sure in the future, developers will be able to clock the Adreno higher than 500Mhz and still produce less heat due to the 28nm vs 40nm on Tegra.
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I believe It's actually 333mhz in our One X. Tablets have higher clock speeds for the gpu, not our phone by stock default. Of course we'll be able to OC our One Xs further.

If you're looking for dev support there's not going to be a ton based on fewer XL's being sold. It's an LTE phone and based on the limited amount of LTE deployed in Europe it won't sell nearly as many units as the Teg3 One X. I'd guess it'll also have 16GB of storage like the XL's sold in the rest of the world too.

skr_xd said:
Seems the European One XL will have only 16GB of storage.
While, the Australian version of One XL is mentioned as 32GB
http://www.htc.com/au/smartphones/htc-one-xl/#specs
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I think this is a mistake, I went looking for some australian online shops but they al mentioned the xl only had 16GB

The European XL has only 16gb its on HTC's website it also has a plastic camera ring instead if the brushe metal one
its a clearly downgraded version of the One X to be sold at a cheaper price and you guys are debating wether its better
as for GPU shaky already confirmed we have a 533mhz gpu on AP33 its scales down with the CPU clocks @1.4ghz we get it full speed

according to modaco website, s4 versions of hox (excluding att) are handling fastboot boot corectly. that is a plus.
16gb of difference is lame

catachresistant said:
I doubt the XL will be released here in the UK but I will probably get it imported from Germany or something.
I don't game, so Tegra is a huge turn-off... Bigger process, runs hot, drivers are wonky...
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There are some articles saying XL will land in the UK, including one from April 25. But this more recent article says no:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...htc-one-xl-unlikely-to-land-in-the-uk-1081899

hamdir said:
The European XL has only 16gb its on HTC's website it also has a plastic camera ring instead if the brushe metal one
its a clearly downgraded version of the One X to be sold at a cheaper price and you guys are debating wether its better
as for GPU shaky already confirmed we have a 533mhz gpu on AP33 its scales down with the CPU clocks @1.4ghz we get it full speed
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16 GB may be true, especially if the hardware is identical to the US/Canada XL. I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to up the memory spec in a variant though, presuming the S4 can handle more and the One XL was designed for more.
I've seen lots of debate about One X vs One XL, and I think it's debatable. I think each device has it's pluses, and I wouldn't immediately assume 4 or 5 cores are always better than 2.
I bought into the idea that the XL was effectively crippled, and the rest of the world was smart enough to ignore the XL. Now I'm not so sure.
The biggest question to me is if XL popularity will overtake X, especially among ROM developers. I've seen a few comments along the lines of "Europeans who just bought the X will be pissed".
True or not, I don't know, but time will tell.
Apparently the AT&T XL bootloader issue has a solution.
And I think/hope software problem differences between the two will eventually be minimized.
All in all, I think this is good news for XL owners, expanding the userbase and perhaps developer support (?).
For X owners, I'm not sure if it's positive, negative or neutral, but I don't think it's a big swing, unless... Unless developer interest in the XL caused a migration away from X.

hamdir said:
but gizmo-do reported its no match for the One X/tegra3 in terms of gaming and performance @ 720p
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I'll trade a slightly slower gpu any day for a faster cpu, more battery life and a cooler running phone and also 4g. I doubt you'll see any games other than the few tegra 3 optimised games that would run smoothly on the One X but not the One XL.
The australian and german version is mentioned to have 32gb of storage, but will cost an arm and a leg
The 32gb One XL will be the best of the htc phones imo.
Tegra 3 is overrated, especially with the fact that it can't run at its max performance without overheating your phone.
Dev support shouldn't be an issue, all the american versions would have the S4, not to mention the One S around the world and I believe most mid range devices releasing next year would also have the S4. Just discovered the At&t also has supercid now.

Head over to gsmarena evo 4g lte review and you can see in cpu bound single thread test like benchmark pi, the snapdragon s4 is currently the fastest soc available core for core. A score of 270 puts it about 25% faster than tegra3 at the same clock. Floating point is almost 2x as fast. Since hardly any apps load up the second core on a dual core, the benefit of adding another 2 more cores is questionable. I would take the 2 more powerful and energy efficient cores anyday. Now that we have anandtech's reviews of the att one x, its adreno225 gpu has shown to be about equal to the geforce ulp. Gaming is not an issue though as currently most games run fine on adreno 205 which is several times slower than the 225.
The only drawback to the one xl is the gpu flash player performance. It seems incapable of handling 720p flash videos in browser where both mali400 and geforce ulp plays 1080p without a problem.

hamdir said:
The European XL has only 16gb its on HTC's website it also has a plastic camera ring instead if the brushe metal one
its a clearly downgraded version of the One X to be sold at a cheaper price and you guys are debating wether its better
as for GPU shaky already confirmed we have a 533mhz gpu on AP33 its scales down with the CPU clocks @1.4ghz we get it full speed
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In Hong Kong, the XL is actually more expensive then X...
Sent from my HTC One X using XDA

Tegra3 is a beast im sorry, in my mega thread i was the most skeptical and most worried
and now I am amazed to the floor with what this chip-set can do, like many said its the main highlight of the device
software issues with OnDemand governor has nothing to do with the processor abilities
root your device and control it and you will see how amazing it is
as for THD games they are not few, they are releasing them non stop and seriously one look into s4e2 and your mind boggles, this is PS3 quality on a mobile phone!
those who like to game, and i mean real games, not stupid phone games like angry birds, will miss out if they dismiss Tegra3
being a hardcore game seriously for the first time since i ever owned a smartphone i'm actually playing games on it
in HK XL is more expensive? most likely due to the shortage in s4 supply
but seriously its simple, if you are gonna cry about battery life and slight heat when pushed to the limits that was confirmed to be OK by the device maker (and still much lesser than iPad3) then by all means don't get the Tegra version
if you realise heat is not the end of the world, understand its due to a quad core built on a larger process, your daily lifestyle has access to recharging more often and most important KNOW HOW TO JUST ENJOY! than Tegra One X is unmatched
every reviewer complaint about the XL performance that it performs slower than the One S, all the devices i owned before were qualcomm and to be perfectly honest i say good riddance!
video decoding issues are never ending with Qual CPUs not to mention they are unmatched to Nvidia's app developers support
biggest surprise? Nvidia continuous updates to their Tegra3 Kernel source, our kernel devs like Franco keep on porting to our One X

SD821 Underclocked in pixel devices

The pixel XI and the pixel are packed with snadragon 821 chipset wich supposed to be clocked at 2*2.35 kryo & 2*2.0 kryo but both pixel phones are clocked at 2*2.15 kryo & 2*1.6 Kryo which is exactly the same as SD820 on Lg G5 and the s7 so if someone knows what is the difference between the cpu in the pixel phones and the regular snapdragon 820 please write it down

From what I have read the 821 is a 820. The 821 is just higher binned 820. When they make chips they are not all the same. Some just are a little more efficient than others do to very minor differences in the chips. So a high binned 820 can handle a higher clock speed while using less power are turned into 821.
So Google decided they wanted to go with the 821 because it is more power efficient than a 820. But it seems Google thinks the speed of the 820 is fast enough to provide a good snappy user experience. So they are doubling down on efficiency by clocking these high binned chips down to the same as the 820. So say the 821 is 5% more efficient at stock speed over the 820. The 821 might be 10% more efficient at the same clock speed at the 820 while delivering the same speed as the 820. So they are sort of doubling down on efficiency over performance.
From the hands on I have seen everyone has described the phone as very fast. This is likely due to Google optimizing Android to run on the pixels hardware. Much like Apple does with the iPhone. Also the Pixel has some hardware features that might not show up on a regular spec sheet. It has some improved touch screen latency and faster storage. Because of these factors Google decided they don't need the extra performance of the 821 but instead want to utilize it's efficiency.
TLDR Google is going all in on the Pixel proving a very fast user experience while being power efficient!

So in theory once kernel source has been released we can just OC it back to "stock" frequency and get even faster performance with a hit to battery life.

I have the OP3 and the phone is clocking to max. frequency very rarely anyway. So there is no reason to clock it down for better efficiency.

So basically the pixel xl nd the pixel have snadragon 820 with a different name and better efficiency, as a result the gaming performance is the same as on the lg g5 or the s7 for example, these pixel devices arent worth the extra 200$

ramqashou said:
So basically the pixel xl nd the pixel have snadragon 820 with a different name and better efficiency, as a result the gaming performance is the same as on the lg g5 or the s7 for example, these pixel devices arent worth the extra 200$
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The smaller Pixel has the potential to out do both of those phones and the Pixel XL in gaming since it has a native resolution of 1080p. The lower the resolution, the higher frames per second possible in games when using the same SoC, assuming the game is made to run at your phones native resolution.

ramqashou said:
So basically the pixel xl nd the pixel have snadragon 820 with a different name and better efficiency, as a result the gaming performance is the same as on the lg g5 or the s7 for example, these pixel devices arent worth the extra 200$
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In the current climate and with the 810 fiasco overshadowing can you really blame them for dialing it down? Perhaps the GPU is still clocked higher in the 821 and I'll take the efficiency as a perk. It's up to you what's worth $200 more but there are a few more bits less talked about included in the price.
---------- Post added at 07:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 AM ----------
mixedguy said:
The smaller Pixel has the potential to out do both of those phones and the Pixel XL in gaming since it has a native resolution of 1080p. The lower the resolution, the higher frames per second possible in games when using the same SoC, assuming the game is made to run at your phones native resolution.
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I'd rather have 1080p at 60FPS than 2k at 30FPS on a screen that size, however I think most games, at least the big titles, have adjustable resolution so I think the only difference will be battery draw.

Hoodeddeathman said:
I'd rather have 1080p at 60FPS than 2k at 30FPS on a screen that size, however I think most games, at least the big titles, have adjustable resolution so I think the only difference will be battery draw.
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I agree, I wasn't aware you could choose your resolution in mobile phone games as I don't really play demanding games on my phone, I assumed it was like mainstream game consoles where the developer predetermines the resolution or just sets it to use the native res by default.
I play games on PC, so it's pretty cool that you can change the resolution on mobile phone games like you can on PC games.

mixedguy said:
I agree, I wasn't aware you could choose your resolution in mobile phone games as I don't really play demanding games on my phone, I assumed it was like mainstream game consoles where the developer predetermines the resolution or just sets it to use the native res by default.
I play games on PC, so it's pretty cool that you can change the resolution on mobile phone games like you can on PC games.
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As I understand it android has the capability and it's up to the devs to implement. The game can be rendered at whatever resolution and will then be upscaled. for example Warhammer Freeblade allows you to select which resolution to use and texture qualities just as you would in most PC games at the risk of losing frames however Need For Speed No Limits selects a pre-defined profile depending on device.

As I said, underclocking doesn't automatically mean better effiency... If you would have a 820 phone you would know that. I experimented a lot with different CPU settings on my One Plus 3 and underclocking is not worth it because it only cuts of performance but does NOT increase effiency because your CPU is using max frequency like 1% of the runtime anyway... In more than two days 2,15 GHz on the big cluster was used only 49s on my OP3.
And that the 821 reaches a higher frequency doesn't automatically mean that the CPU has a higher quality. I know it would be possible that the 820s are only bad 821s that don't surpass quality tests but I don't think so because the 820 was released much earlier. Usually it goes the other way around, like on GPUs. Nvidia first releases the very high end models and then sells the crappy GPUs in the lower end models. I don't think that Qualcomm is like, hey we are picking out all really good 820s and pile them up to sell them as 821s... A 821 could be better and more efficient but it's not necessarily true. A good 820 could still be as good or even better than a 821, regarding effiency. Also think about AMD Processors a few years ago, whole cores where unlock able and there was still room for OC if you were lucky.

Gerrit507 said:
As I said, underclocking doesn't automatically mean better effiency... If you would have a 820 phone you would know that. I experimented a lot with different CPU settings on my One Plus 3 and underclocking is not worth it because it only cuts of performance but does NOT increase effiency because your CPU is using max frequency like 1% of the runtime anyway... In more than two days 2,15 GHz on the big cluster was used only 49s on my OP3.
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When talking about efficiency I'm referring more to undervolting as appose to underclocking, it may be the case that they have chosen those frequencies because the 821 steps up in voltage beyond that point thus increasing power consumption and heat. We'll have to wait and see how the Pixel performs, but if that underclock means the thermal load is capped lower we will also see less throttling, ideal for daydream.
As an example I would refer to overclocking desktop CPUs, the architecture is different but how it responds to heat and power is not. beyond a certain frequency the CPU requires exponentially more power and generates exponentially more heat the higher you go.

http://m.gsmarena.com/google_pixel_xl_benchmark_doesnt_show_performance_improvement-news-20927.php
This benchmark proves to all those who insist that the chipset in the pixel phones is better than the original snadragon 820

It might be only to reduce the heat. The battery efficiency is, IMO, very marginal.
But I will surely put back the 2.4GHz on mine.

firewave said:
It might be only to reduce the heat. The battery efficiency is, IMO, very marginal.
But I will surely put back the 2.4GHz on mine.
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For some reason idont believe in overclocking, cuz it's beyond the device capabilities and it might cause some problems.

This seems a very big piece of marketing by Google. It isn't really an SD 821, its an SD820.

The 821 only has a 10% performance increase when clocked at its max frequency, so even if Google did leave it at its max frequency, a 10% increase would be barely noticeable, if noticeable at all in real world use.
The 821 does have some features that aren't available on the 820, which is why Google probably chose the 821 over the 820. I found this info about two important features for the 821, that's not found in the 820 and quoted it below.
"One of the main reason why Google used the Snapdragon 821 in the Pixel phones is the Snapdragon VR SDK (Software Development Kit). This is entirely unavailable with the Snapdragon 820. The new SDK comes with advanced VR toolset to give the developers broad access to the internal architecture of the Snapdragon 821 chipset. This is extremely useful and fully compatible with Google Daydream platform. The VR SDK helps in the rendering of cutting-edge visual and audio which helps in state of the art Virtual Reality experience."
"Another important thing which is unknown for most people is about the camera improvements brought by the MSM8996 Pro. The SoC can simultaneously use two phase detectors for significant improvement in focussing quality and time. On the contrary, the Snapdragon 820 or MSM8996 only supports single PDAF (Phase Detecting Auto Focus) systems. The newer chipset extends the range of laser autofocus technology. This will substantially boost the laser-assisted autofocus systems of upcoming smartphones."

ramqashou said:
For some reason idont believe in overclocking, cuz it's beyond the device capabilities and it might cause some problems.
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That's a very incorrect statement. The kernel determines the clock speed. Google could choose something like 0.5GHz if they were so inclined. The phone would run like ****, but in your eyes, the device is not "capable" of anything faster. It sounds like Google purposely underclocked these. If nothing else, you are absolutely 100% fine to clock it back to the speed that Qualcomm, the OEM of the chipset, intended it to run at. True overclocking can present problems, but I have overclocked my CPUs, RAM, and GPUs for YEARS with no issues and reaped plenty of extra benefits in terms of performance. I used to do it on my smartphones too, but it is pointless and wastes battery for almost every use scenario.
Google specifically chose 2.15GHz instead of 2.4GHz as specified by Qualcomm, either due to heat issues or battery life benefit. I am going to guess they realized that their incredibly light and optimized software does not need a 2.4GHz CPU speed - hell, my 6P is faster with a SD 810 than my Note7 with an 820 in day to day use for a reason, that reason being stock Android is incredibly quick and efficient.

That is true from the chip standpoint. What you don't know, though, is if google/htc designed the heat removal system to handle the additional heat produced at full clock speeds without throttling...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

JasonJoel said:
That is true from the chip standpoint. What you don't know, though, is if google/htc designed the heat removal system to handle the additional heat produced at full click speeds without throttling...
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
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The phone being a uni-body aluminium shell should help with that. My 5X gets mega hot when I run games or for extended screen on times, but the back is plastic. I think using the whole surface of the phone as an additional heat-sink so to speak could help with heat dissipation.
Either way - I hope someone tries to OC it back to "stock" qualcomm speeds. I will certainly try to see the results, that is, if custom kernels can be a thing with the Pixel.

Nitemare3219 said:
That's a very incorrect statement. The kernel determines the clock speed. Google could choose something like 0.5GHz if they were so inclined. The phone would run like ****, but in your eyes, the device is not "capable" of anything faster. It sounds like Google purposely underclocked these. If nothing else, you are absolutely 100% fine to clock it back to the speed that Qualcomm, the OEM of the chipset, intended it to run at. True overclocking can present problems, but I have overclocked my CPUs, RAM, and GPUs for YEARS with no issues and reaped plenty of extra benefits in terms of performance. I used to do it on my smartphones too, but it is pointless and wastes battery for almost every use scenario.
Google specifically chose 2.15GHz instead of 2.4GHz as specified by Qualcomm, either due to heat issues or battery life benefit. I am going to guess they realized that their incredibly light and optimized software does not need a 2.4GHz CPU speed - hell, my 6P is faster with a SD 810 than my Note7 with an 820 in day to day use for a reason, that reason being stock Android is incredibly quick and efficient.
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That's true i can't
Deny the power of stock android, but there are many other OEM custom skins that are well optimized and are plenty fast such as sense and Lg ux 5.0 and even the oxygen OS