I’ve been baffled by what I’ve been hearing and reading about the bootloader is being locked and the late delivery of Android updates for Defy and other handsets from Motorola. I would like to request Motorola to make official statements about the very same concerns almost all their customers have.
In my opinion, Motorola is not being sincere about the mess they are into. Motorola has a long history for being far slower in delivering updates compared to other manufacturers. In my case, after owning my Defy for nearly six months I still don’t have the Android version (Froyo 2.2) I wanted on day one. My handset is now too old and too slow compared to what I can buy in today’s market with latest version of Android on most of them.
I often see people acting as Motorola’s spokesperson by saying the cause of the delay is due to the test mobile network provider has to perform. I would like to see a written statement from Motorola saying just that please. For a company is very easy to hire a small PR Firm to spread rumours on the internet and people often fall in that trap and spread the rumour all for free behalf the company.
Motorola must be aware of its customer frustrations with the late updates. Supposedly, this is the fault of Mobile Network Providers, why then Motorola doesn’t release latest Android with their handsets to avoid comments like mine? This is a clear indication to me Mobile Network Providers cannot be blamed and this must have to do with a policy Motorola has. Why other manufacturers are not affected by the very test process? Didn’t Samsung release a fix update globally for SGII only after weeks?
This is what I understood from manufactures’ spokesperson (users claiming to know everything). Bootloader is locked because of Mobile Network Providers’ demand. I bought my mobile sim-free from a retail, why the bootloader is still locked then? This is another lie from manufacturers, not just Motorola. Has anyone seen an official statement from any manufactures explaining who the decision was made by? I’d predict no one can provide such evidence.
The bootloader fiasco is all about reducing repair cost whilst the handset is under warranty. That means it is possible for a manufacturer to calculate the cost of a handset with locked bootloader and without. Is the saving made by locking the bootloader passed on to the customer?
Motorola is the most arrogant company I have ever dealt with and they should be disgraced with the level of service they have provided for their customers. I have reached to the point that the hardware quality no longer matters to me when I feel being ripped off by Motorola. I have already boycotted Nokia for selling spying equipment (tracking & listening) to countries such as Iran and now I refuse to spend my hard earned money on Motorola’s products for their poor services.
Companies have the right to earn money, but not at the cost of ripping people off or even worst at the cost of endangering people lives.
You are totally wrong.
And if you don't like your defy dont buy motorola again or install cm7
Ov3rd0se said:
You are totally wrong.
And if you don't like your defy dont buy motorola again or install cm7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who are you? Are you playing God in here? Who asked your opinion about my alternative solutions?
Why your first ever post submission (1 post, 25 May 2011) has to do with telling me off? You did not provide any valuable arguments as to why I was wrong.
I think there is a post for a petition in unlocking the boot loader. As for updates. 2.2 has already been released last march. even if motorola is like that, ur defy is still a great phone comparable to the latest phones because you have the support of great developers and forumers here.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
salingpusa said:
I think there is a post for a petition in unlocking the boot loader. As for updates. 2.2 has already been released last march. even if motorola is like that, ur defy is still a great phone comparable to the latest phones because you have the support of great developers and forumers here.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your comments.
UK yet to receive (25 May 2011) Froyo. Motorola claims to release Froyo to select countries in Europe. Another lie from them. The only European country has recieved Froyo is France. Motorola all the sudden turned their attention to East-Asia and started releasing updates in the respective countries and forgot all other European countries. I'm referring to Retail version not sim-locked version of Defy.
Just my two cents but although developers love unlocked bootloaders, truth is the majority of end users (customers) don't need or care about flashing their phone and especially flashing a bootloader to load custom kernals. I believe you're right in the biggest factor for Motorola or any manufacturer locking the bootloader is to keep costs down with regards to repairs under warranty - and can you blame a company for that?
I think it would be nice to see real numbers and costs associated as to how many phones are returned to M (or any other manufacturer) under warranty in where it's believed the user bricked the phone...I know if I owned a business I wouldn't want to dish out free phones every time someone bricked their phone because they wanted to hack it on their own accord.
So - even though a locked bootloader essentially eliminates the ability to flash a custom kernal, there are still tons of amazing custom roms that can be developed and flash away all day without fear of bricking the phone. Kinda best of both worlds, a good compromise...isn't that what life is about
Also - even though a custom kernal can't be flashed...you can still have a port like CM7/MIUI etc so you can keep up with the newest OS even when the carrier/manufacturer is slow to upgrade...although not a true port without the kernal but nevertheless you still are running the newest OS.
If they sold a retail version with an unlocked bootloader, carriers will lose sales. The bootloader issue was known for a long time, if you didn't like the fact that the bootloader is locked, you shouldn't have bought a Motorola android phone.
Suck it up. It's your fault, want to do something useful? send a complaint to Motorola and sign the petition.
confusedfella said:
If they sold a retail version with an unlocked bootloader, carriers will lose sales. The bootloader issue was known for a long time, if you didn't like the fact that the bootloader is locked, you shouldn't have bought a Motorola android phone.
Suck it up. It's your fault, want to do something useful? send a complaint to Motorola and sign the petition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please point to my comment where I'm complaining about "my phone" being locked and I've been desperate for custom roms? The point of mentioning about the bootloader was to highlight the lies and the unfounded truth some people spread around. I would never use a custom ROM not even with an unlocked bootloader.
On that note, HTC announced today they are reviewing their bootloader policy. You can read more about it here. I guess this news alone proves my earlier point that people are spreading unfounded facts blaming Mobile Network Providers over the bootloader.
Companies has their own rights to manufacture devices under their own policies in term of locking here and there and this normally applied to telco service provider agreements too between them. So pointing Motorola alone is not a good idea as they have their rights all along. Comparing companies like Motorola and another company like HTC is another scenario where different company have different policies they followed or what they wanted they own product be in the market..
If one doesn't like a company policies for being late in upgrading or poor in responding customer feedback. Then there's always another company to choose with. Do survey and then make the purchase when all the details fit you.
And not forgetting that average people doesn't bother with this upgrading software or the hype about bootloader inside out. Most of them just use it the way it is by default when they got it from the shop. Only selective peoples like us here care about these being the first or the last or having the latest software here and there and this is why we have this XDA to support peoples like us. Some of us already running Froyo way back in November last year(if I'm not mistaken) while Motorola might just starting their own Froyo development project on Defy that time.
After all, I do see Motorola did a good job in reviving their phone manufacturing and come back compete with others big companies. So if you buy Motorola phone, you should come here and start flash it and customised it to your own preference as there are a lot of peoples love Motorola and do it freely...
You vote with your wallet, so buying a phone from a company known to deliver few and far between updates with a locked boot loader shows that you don't mind a locked bootloader and are satisfied with the initial state of the phone needing no updates.
And as I've mentioned in my earlier post, if Motorola launches an unlocked bootloader RETAIL version of a phone, the grand majority of power users will buy the retail version and consequently decrease the carriers' sales.
As you mentioned you are not happy with Motorola because of the late update and the locked bootloader. Those 2 issues were known.
IMO the carriers have an upper hand over here, because of the price reduction they can offer. Not everyone can shell out 500-700$ for a high end phone every 6 months. I understand what you mean, its disappointing and not a totally honest move from Motorola. Next time I'll buy a samsung or a SE since they promised more open phones.
who is this sh1t?
When I bought the Defy, I knew about the slow update policy of Motorola, I knew about the locked bootloader. I knew that if I would buy an HTC phone I would have updates sooner, I would have custom roms with custom kernels. I also knew that would cost me about 100 euros more, give me lower sound quality, a more vulnerable phone. So I had to make a choice, en chose the Defy. You could have known the same, regardless of what companies say. Just read about different phones on forums like this.
Hardly any company will be 100% honest about their money-making policies. Just use your common sense and you'll know that almost every buisness has only one core buisness: to make money. Some companies will give you more service, other companies give less service to be able to lower the prices of their products. It's up to you to make a choice what you value more. I chose for a lower price and some restrictions in customizing and a tougher phone. You maybe should have chosen to pay a bit more to have more freedom.
confusedfella said:
You vote with your wallet, so buying a phone from a company known to deliver few and far between updates with a locked boot loader shows that you don't mind a locked bootloader and are satisfied with the initial state of the phone needing no updates.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought Defy base on the promise of Froyo but didn't expect six months of wait. Why it takes a global company about six months to release an update? It is not like they are doing all the Android development, is it?.
I don't understand why you are blindly defending Motorola. Without our money Motoroal would be nothing. I will survive without a Mobile phone but does Motorola survive without our money?
confusedfella said:
IMO the carriers have an upper hand over here, because of the price reduction they can offer. Not everyone can shell out 500-700$ for a high end phone every 6 months. I understand what you mean, its disappointing and not a totally honest move from Motorola. Next time I'll buy a samsung or a SE since they promised more open phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least in the UK, with 24 months contract you are not saving anything on the handset itself. Some plans actually work out even more expensive. Please name a business that passes on the savings to the customers? They are greedy and you are happy to defend them all for free.
Fotogravin said:
When I bought the Defy, I knew about the slow update policy of Motorola, I knew about the locked bootloader. I knew that if I would buy an HTC phone I would have updates sooner, I would have custom roms with custom kernels. I also knew that would cost me about 100 euros more, give me lower sound quality, a more vulnerable phone. So I had to make a choice, en chose the Defy. You could have known the same, regardless of what companies say. Just read about different phones on forums like this.
Hardly any company will be 100% honest about their money-making policies. Just use your common sense and you'll know that almost every buisness has only one core buisness: to make money. Some companies will give you more service, other companies give less service to be able to lower the prices of their products. It's up to you to make a choice what you value more. I chose for a lower price and some restrictions in customizing and a tougher phone. You maybe should have chosen to pay a bit more to have more freedom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Those people bought Motorola CLIQ were promised updates but Motorola didn't deliver. I guess that is ok by you because Motorola didn't force them to buy anything from them in the first place. And the millions of dollars Motorola spends advertising is just to show off their products to other companies not to encourage us consumers to depart from our money.
My friend, there is no relation between you are being happy with your purchase from Motorola and the rest of us has to shut up about not being happy.
I'm not going to mention the Defy's earpiece fiasco.
csharpheaven said:
i’ve been baffled by what i’ve been hearing and reading about the bootloader is being locked and the late delivery of android updates for defy and other handsets from motorola. I would like to request motorola to make official statements about the very same concerns almost all their customers have.
In my opinion, motorola is not being sincere about the mess they are into. Motorola has a long history for being far slower in delivering updates compared to other manufacturers. In my case, after owning my defy for nearly six months i still don’t have the android version (froyo 2.2) i wanted on day one. My handset is now too old and too slow compared to what i can buy in today’s market with latest version of android on most of them.
I often see people acting as motorola’s spokesperson by saying the cause of the delay is due to the test mobile network provider has to perform. I would like to see a written statement from motorola saying just that please. For a company is very easy to hire a small pr firm to spread rumours on the internet and people often fall in that trap and spread the rumour all for free behalf the company.
Motorola must be aware of its customer frustrations with the late updates. Supposedly, this is the fault of mobile network providers, why then motorola doesn’t release latest android with their handsets to avoid comments like mine? This is a clear indication to me mobile network providers cannot be blamed and this must have to do with a policy motorola has. Why other manufacturers are not affected by the very test process? Didn’t samsung release a fix update globally for sgii only after weeks?
This is what i understood from manufactures’ spokesperson (users claiming to know everything). Bootloader is locked because of mobile network providers’ demand. I bought my mobile sim-free from a retail, why the bootloader is still locked then? This is another lie from manufacturers, not just motorola. Has anyone seen an official statement from any manufactures explaining who the decision was made by? I’d predict no one can provide such evidence.
The bootloader fiasco is all about reducing repair cost whilst the handset is under warranty. That means it is possible for a manufacturer to calculate the cost of a handset with locked bootloader and without. Is the saving made by locking the bootloader passed on to the customer?
Motorola is the most arrogant company i have ever dealt with and they should be disgraced with the level of service they have provided for their customers. I have reached to the point that the hardware quality no longer matters to me when i feel being ripped off by motorola. I have already boycotted nokia for selling spying equipment (tracking & listening) to countries such as iran and now i refuse to spend my hard earned money on motorola’s products for their poor services.
Companies have the right to earn money, but not at the cost of ripping people off or even worst at the cost of endangering people lives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
listen fast judger , i don't care about the update that what is about to be released , the point is that you can work smoother than iphone.
Second thing is you will never get the full control of any other company such as samsung and htc.
Each one has it's on bad staff ,so if you feel damn bad just try others and live the disappointing.
CSharpHeaven said:
I’ve been baffled by what I’ve been hearing and reading about the bootloader is being locked and the late delivery of Android updates for Defy and other handsets from Motorola. I would like to request Motorola to make official statements about the very same concerns almost all their customers have.
In my opinion, Motorola is not being sincere about the mess they are into. Motorola has a long history for being far slower in delivering updates compared to other manufacturers. In my case, after owning my Defy for nearly six months I still don’t have the Android version (Froyo 2.2) I wanted on day one. My handset is now too old and too slow compared to what I can buy in today’s market with latest version of Android on most of them.
I often see people acting as Motorola’s spokesperson by saying the cause of the delay is due to the test mobile network provider has to perform. I would like to see a written statement from Motorola saying just that please. For a company is very easy to hire a small PR Firm to spread rumours on the internet and people often fall in that trap and spread the rumour all for free behalf the company.
Motorola must be aware of its customer frustrations with the late updates. Supposedly, this is the fault of Mobile Network Providers, why then Motorola doesn’t release latest Android with their handsets to avoid comments like mine? This is a clear indication to me Mobile Network Providers cannot be blamed and this must have to do with a policy Motorola has. Why other manufacturers are not affected by the very test process? Didn’t Samsung release a fix update globally for SGII only after weeks?
This is what I understood from manufactures’ spokesperson (users claiming to know everything). Bootloader is locked because of Mobile Network Providers’ demand. I bought my mobile sim-free from a retail, why the bootloader is still locked then? This is another lie from manufacturers, not just Motorola. Has anyone seen an official statement from any manufactures explaining who the decision was made by? I’d predict no one can provide such evidence.
The bootloader fiasco is all about reducing repair cost whilst the handset is under warranty. That means it is possible for a manufacturer to calculate the cost of a handset with locked bootloader and without. Is the saving made by locking the bootloader passed on to the customer?
Motorola is the most arrogant company I have ever dealt with and they should be disgraced with the level of service they have provided for their customers. I have reached to the point that the hardware quality no longer matters to me when I feel being ripped off by Motorola. I have already boycotted Nokia for selling spying equipment (tracking & listening) to countries such as Iran and now I refuse to spend my hard earned money on Motorola’s products for their poor services.
Companies have the right to earn money, but not at the cost of ripping people off or even worst at the cost of endangering people lives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think ur very disappointed with Companies like Motorola for Locked Boot loader and no Updates and ur Phone lags.....So why don't you buy Nokia 3210..No bootloader problem and no Update problem and it never Lags...
I believe they will soon. If another don't why they need to.
Samsung : Unlock
LG : Unlock
SE : Able to Unlock
HTC : Reviewing
CSharpHeaven said:
I’ve been baffled by what I’ve been hearing and reading about the bootloader is being locked and the late delivery of Android updates for Defy and other handsets from Motorola. I would like to request Motorola to make official statements about the very same concerns almost all their customers have.
In my opinion, Motorola is not being sincere about the mess they are into. Motorola has a long history for being far slower in delivering updates compared to other manufacturers. In my case, after owning my Defy for nearly six months I still don’t have the Android version (Froyo 2.2) I wanted on day one. My handset is now too old and too slow compared to what I can buy in today’s market with latest version of Android on most of them.
I often see people acting as Motorola’s spokesperson by saying the cause of the delay is due to the test mobile network provider has to perform. I would like to see a written statement from Motorola saying just that please. For a company is very easy to hire a small PR Firm to spread rumours on the internet and people often fall in that trap and spread the rumour all for free behalf the company.
Motorola must be aware of its customer frustrations with the late updates. Supposedly, this is the fault of Mobile Network Providers, why then Motorola doesn’t release latest Android with their handsets to avoid comments like mine? This is a clear indication to me Mobile Network Providers cannot be blamed and this must have to do with a policy Motorola has. Why other manufacturers are not affected by the very test process? Didn’t Samsung release a fix update globally for SGII only after weeks?
This is what I understood from manufactures’ spokesperson (users claiming to know everything). Bootloader is locked because of Mobile Network Providers’ demand. I bought my mobile sim-free from a retail, why the bootloader is still locked then? This is another lie from manufacturers, not just Motorola. Has anyone seen an official statement from any manufactures explaining who the decision was made by? I’d predict no one can provide such evidence.
The bootloader fiasco is all about reducing repair cost whilst the handset is under warranty. That means it is possible for a manufacturer to calculate the cost of a handset with locked bootloader and without. Is the saving made by locking the bootloader passed on to the customer?
Motorola is the most arrogant company I have ever dealt with and they should be disgraced with the level of service they have provided for their customers. I have reached to the point that the hardware quality no longer matters to me when I feel being ripped off by Motorola. I have already boycotted Nokia for selling spying equipment (tracking & listening) to countries such as Iran and now I refuse to spend my hard earned money on Motorola’s products for their poor services.
Companies have the right to earn money, but not at the cost of ripping people off or even worst at the cost of endangering people lives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude.. What the hell are you talking about?? When the froyo update gets released in UK and when you flash it you will not notice any difference between the stock eclair and the froyo.. Dont simply go by the versions of android that gets released.. Check what the version of Android offers you.
Coming to your bootloader issue, What if its locked or unlocked? why the hell a layman care if he has a locked or an unlocked BL? All he wants is a fancy phone which he can use for his purpose, If the BL is not locked developers might even port windows 7 to defy but thats not what a layman wants or cares.
And coming to your policy for making money.. All companies try to make money and you talk as though samsung and nokia shell out there money for charity..
Your defy is the best mid range Android device you can get in the market, I visited tons of forums before I decided to buy it. If you are not happy with the service call the service desk or mail them.. Dont waste your time showing your agitation on Moto here.
Motorola is going to use every last days in Q2 to make sure Froyo is not released for Defy to increase the sale of their newer handsets with Froyo. I'm not happy about this dirty tactic from a company that already got my money. I suspect they will use the same dirty tactics with Atrix that I used to keep my eyes on for. I'm not going to let them trick me twice.
Exercising my rights to speak is so wonderful. Thank you XDA team for the opportunity.
CSharpHeaven said:
I bought Defy base on the promise of Froyo but didn't expect six months of wait. Why it takes a global company about six months to release an update? It is not like they are doing all the Android development, is it?.
I don't understand why you are blindly defending Motorola. Without our money Motoroal would be nothing. I will survive without a Mobile phone but does Motorola survive without our money?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know why it takes them so long, but you knew they tend to stretch update schedules, so why the hell did you buy a motorola phone? You said it right there "without our money motorola would go bankrupt" so thats why you don't buy motorola phones if you think they are doing it wrong, they'll have to adapt(better customer support,unlocked bootloader..etc) to overcome a potential crisis. They promised Froyo and you will get it, but when I don't know. You're blaming a company for your bad choices no one is making you buy their phones.
Im pretty satisfied with my purchase, It has an awesome screen size, is pretty fast and small. And for a small price. If you can't wait anymore for froyo, flash an official rom or go buy another phone. I learned it the hard way.
Related
Facebook and Twitter is the only way to speed up unlocked bootloader process guys. You want publicity, not private conversation. So it's quite pointless emailing htc, we had a win, now we need to make sure that potential customers are aware that HTC is taking it's time in keeping their word, so they hold back on the purchase. If sales figures drop, HTC will pull the finger out and will HAVE to do something about it. PUBLICITY. REPUTATION. SALES. That's what we need to address. Make sure that you mention that even average Joe which doesn't want root can be affected, as if company doesn't keep up to promises, they do it to EVERYONE. Mention that they lied about Desire getting GB (well, calling it lie is exaggerating a bit, but we want to make it look bad, and I hope you heard the news), so average Joe can't expect to have his HTC phone to be up to date for the whole length of the contract (normally 24month in UK). Make customers think before buying, even if takes only one week for all the customers to decide, HTC will definitely notice it, and will realize what sort of impact small group of unhappy customers can cause.
Also, as a lot of us hang out in other forums (i still pop in to Desire forum now and again), i suppose we could start threads there with links to this one, or just quoting it, so we get a lot more people to help us (we are a small group of Sensation owners in the end of the day). I do believe that even Sammy, LG, MOTO etc. owners will be sympathetic to our cause and will help us to become louder.
THANKS LADS.
Erm... I got lost somewhere in this but from your first sentence, HTC are unlocking their bootloaders. I don't get what this whole thing is about.
Yeah, I don't get this either. Are you asking for Unlocked Bootloaders like Meaple suggested? If so you are about a month behind. Already been announced. If not, I'm lost.
KYI
I'm a very patient person. I did wait for unlocked bootloader quietly, but seeing how HTC is messing about with us ( GB update for desire ) I lost all the trust in them. So my thought is to put as much pressure on HTC as we can, or they will assume we forgot about it and will let it go on and on and on.... My 2c.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
It's been mentioned, not announced. I believe announcement involves ETA.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
Sensation will probably get an unlocked bootloader with the next (bigish?) update.
Same with Flyer perhaps if that is locked?
other devices will probably not be updated unless there's another big update - as it stands the people that were threatening to leave to SGS2 were the ones targeting the sensation and sensations bootloader - with all the rooting abilities in the wild at the moment - what's the point of changing the rules and playing field? just leave them be to use unrevoked and alpharev etc. ?
Personally I'm thinking that I'm happy with the thoughts of an eventual unlocked bootloader policy, open source for sense bits, and a possible update to the desire, (being the last update we'll see!)
Anyone get the feeling that sometimes if you ask for too much in one go you get nothing at all?
I completely understand what you are saying Lothaen. I had same opinion untill i heard about all that Desire GB business. It confused me a lot. What was the point? Anyway, while i'm a big htc fan, all i've seen from them so far is just talk. I do understand that releasing updates takes time, but i feel if they actually were in the process of doing it, at least they could release an explanation of how they are planning to do it, and why it will take some time. See, some communication does wonders sometimes. At the moment to me it looks like a dad/mum who can't be bothered to explain things to the child sort of a conversation.
Customer: i'm not happy, i want unlocked bootloader,
HTC: you can't have it
Customer: tantrum on the floor
HTC: ok you can have it ("just shut up")
Customer: any idea when please?
HTC: you'll have it....
Customer: i want my GB update for a Desire too, you promised
HTC: no, you are not having it ("not bothered to make an effort")
Customer: tantrum on the floor
HTC: ok ok ok, have it
Customer: but when?
HTC: you'll have it.....
Don't really mind about Desire, as it's unlocked so we can do whatever we want to it, but a lot of customers are not rooted, so they are stuck.
No company explains things. They can have a road map or what ever it's called but that's about it. You can ask them personally when stuff will get released but you will get "soon". That's how it is and always will be with ANY company. Don't just think it's HTC. I think they are a wonderful company that release some really nice products. Just because in the past 2 months they have said something twice and people have responded badly to it and demanded them to change their decision doesn't make them a bad company. It just merely suggests that that company has made a mistake and changed it's mind. If they turn out products that there is no unlocked bootloader or they won't release an update like they said they would then their reputation would massively go down, they inevitably would lose sales and would be back to square 1.
And as you nicely put
but a lot of customers are not rooted, so they are stuck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
they have the option to root their phone. Not just for the Desire but other phones as well.
I seriously don't get it. You seem to have some personal hatred for the company just because they have made 2 mistakes and them mistakes have been rectified.... seriously now.
Oh no, there is no hatred. Sorry if it sounds like that. As i said, I'm a big HTC fan, and I love their devices.
What confuses me, is all these promises, then u-turns, then u-turns on u-turns.
I should have probably explained that this is a copy/paste from Sensation forum. All I would like to achieve is HTC to speed up unlocking process, or at least give us some information. We are a minority (people who root phones ) so we have to involve an average Joe to be noticed. Quick promise without any more information I just can't consider as a serious statement.
At the moment it looks like they are trying to shut up people who are not happy with thing HTC are doing, so their Facebook page is not filled with negative comments. Saying that, some of the posts are atrocious, I always say that swearing doesn't get you anywhere.
Absolutely love my Desire, especially after rooting it, so Sensation didn't really live up to expectations. I truly believe that devs can improve it x-fold.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
Well it is how it is and you can't change that. I think when a company goes back on itself in a good way for the customers is a good thing and you should expect good things. Like I said, company's will say something and then not release any information really. They might when it's close to releasing it but other than that it stays quiet. Purely because other competitive company's will keep tabs on each other. It's just a matter of waiting really.
Have to disagree with your first sentence. We did force them to change their decision on locked bootloader (i hope) so things can be changed if a lot of people ask for it.
Meaple said:
Well it is how it is and you can't change that. I think when a company goes back on itself in a good way for the customers is a good thing and you should expect good things. Like I said, company's will say something and then not release any information really. They might when it's close to releasing it but other than that it stays quiet. Purely because other competitive company's will keep tabs on each other. It's just a matter of waiting really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
I totally agree that you want the sensation unlocking and that'll come 'soon' (hehe)
big outcry number 1 achieved that goal - shouting about it to get it sooner is probably not going to help.
as someone said htc didn't really have to go back on their decisions - and a lot of companies probably wouldn't have anyway - but the Sensation is brand new still - in fact it isn't even available here till next week on any network apart from vodafone if I read rightly - so you'll probably have to give them a month or two.
You know when you buy a PC game (or probably xbox and ps3) and as soon as you install it it says you must download a hotfix or patch and its day 1 of release, you think 'geez, they have to patch something so soon - why did they release it so early?' Well I guess it's the same sort of thing - technically the Sensation isn't broken so they don't want to make it look like they did a bad job - give it a month or two and you'll probably get the update which will unlock - or if lucky the unbranded/non-vodafone handsets might be unlocked anyway?
Then it's probably also down to the network again to push the updates out after htc release them so more delays...
So all in all I think you just need to give it a bit of time
Unfortunatly, this is how businesses work. Old models get left by the wayside = More revenue for new devices. If Microsoft constantly updated Windows we would all still be on Windows 95. But, they stop support to force your hand into buying a newer version. HTC are no Different.
Personally, from a business point of view and not my personal view, its a sound business model. MAKE people buy your latest and greatest releases.
Unfortunatly, HTC have more support then I think they realised and HAD to give in to pressure, but I don't think it will continue for the forseeable future. I think they decided to ride the crest of a wave while it was till good.
KYI
I know where you are coming from, but Microsoft supported Win95 for more than a year or two...
Also Win XP's support has been extended because so many people are using it on the same wavelength.
a 24 month contract and a phone that is out of support in less than that - it's no wonder people are grieved...
It'd be nice to get 18 months support on a phone, and after that you can almost expect it to be old hat.
I wouldn't expect any updates after GB (maybe a bugfix if there are any)
Lothaen said:
I know where you are coming from, but Microsoft supported Win95 for more than a year or two...
Also Win XP's support has been extended because so many people are using it on the same wavelength.
a 24 month contract and a phone that is out of support in less than that - it's no wonder people are grieved...
It'd be nice to get 18 months support on a phone, and after that you can almost expect it to be old hat.
I wouldn't expect any updates after GB (maybe a bugfix if there are any)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, Microsoft support is more then 2 years, but their releases are not (At least not far behind). The Reason support is less (occasionally) then 24 months is due to the carriers. The Contract is 24 months at Vodafone/Orange/O2 ect Discression, not HTC's.
You CAN get a Desire on 12 Month contracts, but you pay more for the handset first off. Most people have CHOSEN a 24 month contract as the Handset is subsidized over the 24 months. HTC are not obliged to release updates for 24 months, if you have a 24 Month contract (I do) then that is your choice (It was mine)
Either Way, IMO, Gingerbread is a Bonus, not a right on HTC's part
killyouridols said:
True, Microsoft support is more then 2 years, but their releases are not (At least not far behind). The Reason support is less (occasionally) then 24 months is due to the carriers. The Contract is 24 months at Vodafone/Orange/O2 ect Discression, not HTC's.
You CAN get a Desire on 12 Month contracts, but you pay more for the handset first off. Most people have CHOSEN a 24 month contract as the Handset is subsidized over the 24 months. HTC are not obliged to release updates for 24 months, if you have a 24 Month contract (I do) then that is your choice (It was mine)
Either Way, IMO, Gingerbread is a Bonus, not a right on HTC's part
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aren't manufacturers (soon to be) suppose to be supporting a device with updates (unless hardware prevents) for 18 months, as mentioned by google... probably not in place yet though but...
anyway yes I think GB is a bonus.
I think if HTC said from the start that GB wasn't coming they wouldn't have had this massive public moan about it being declined at the last minute probably would have been a much smaller moan
I chose to buy my handset outright and have a rolling 1month contract - meaning it cost me £400 to get the phone, as I was peeved by the HTC Touch HD / Blackstone on a 24 month contract only for it to be out of support almost instantly, no upgrade to 6.5 (without custom rom), and also the HD2 came out about 6 months later...
Every one keeps saying "well they dont have to support it its already over 12 months old"
You keep forgetting that HTC just released the desire in north america in August of 2010. Dropping support for a device thats just over 6 months old is not a good move on their part.
And that is a very valid point.
-Mr. X- said:
Every one keeps saying "well they dont have to support it its already over 12 months old"
You keep forgetting that HTC just released the desire in north america in August of 2010. Dropping support for a device thats just over 6 months old is not a good move on their part.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using XDA App
I never ever saw a software update to the nokia 3210 and had that for years...
Lothaen said:
I never ever saw a software update to the nokia 3210 and had that for years...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn, we better demand one from Nokia, it's well overdue and gps fix as well
I am using the HTC trophy on Verizon. I went in to my local store and was asking about a charging cord (39.95 please), and i kid you not, the sales rep tried to get me to upgrade to an android phone. Im happy with my WP7, and have had android and didnt like it. So after telling the guy that i didnt need a new phone, i left. Now what upsets me is verizons lack of commitment to this OS. people want it, i want it, yet they only give you one phone (HTC trophy) with very low specs. My brother in law works for go wireless and his boss refuses to stock any WP& devices. And go wireless is essentially verizon. Thats is the companies stance on the OS. "no, no one wants that. Here, take one of these 45 android phones. They are way better. why? because they are android". Im so ****ing sick of all this verizon android basket. I dont want to switch to ATT to get a good device, but its making it look more and more probable with each passing day that verizon shafts the WP7 people. I know the kins didnt do so well, but thats verizons fault for requiring a data plan on a dumb phone. Point of my rant is this: i want something other than this trophy on verizon, yet they are making it so difficult to stay with them due to their constant hard on for android and their brief love affair with IOS. Another reason not to switch is i was grandfathered in to the unlimited data plan. Why must you make it so hard for me verizon!? I hate you, yet love your cell reception and unlimited data. Get more CDMA WP7 phones. How hard would it be to get that fujitsu number over here? not that hard i would assume. I would pay cash for that in a heart beat. Much like how i paid 400 some odd bucks the day the trophy came out for verizon.
/end rant
Amen, I feel the same way, if nothing is at least announced for Verizon by the end of 2011 I'll probably be going to AT&T because their phone line-up is better. It's a pity because I do like Verizon's service.
I'm not even asking for a new phone this year, I just want an announcement of a new phone. They're releasing so many Android phones per year, and they can't announce a new wp7 phone after half a year or so, it's kind of BS.
I emailed one of the higher ups at VW regarding this. I got an email and a call back from his assistant regarding my frustrations. Supposedly there will be new WP devices coming, but they wouldn't give a time frame.
Rumor on the net through a couple Nokia sites say that Verizon will be getting a high end Nokia WP, while AT&Crap and T-Mobile will be getting mid tier devices. I'm personally over HTC's battery life issues so I'm optimistic something better will be coming so I can finally make the switch from Android.
Do yourself a favour, if you see what you like on another carrier (at&t, Titan, Focus S, Focus Flash), check out the coverage and prices as best you can and if everything looks ok switch! Why sit around on a carrier that doesnt give you what you want, whether it be CS, coverage or the device you desire? Buy a prepaid phone, use it to confirm you will have coverage and if its a go make sure to tell vzw just why you are switching. Spread the word about your experience, and maybe in 10 years time they will pull their heads out of google's butt!!
That's probably because Verizon is Google's favorite carrier and gets more from Google than other carrieres do, just like Motorola will now be favored over other OEMs.
the deathstars cell service is awful where I live. Calls are always dropped, and the data plan is horrendous. If it weren't for those two things, I would have switched long ago. The only thing really keeping me with big red is the aforementioned unlimited data.
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
wakka420 said:
I am using the HTC trophy on Verizon. I went in to my local store and was asking about a charging cord (39.95 please), and i kid you not, the sales rep tried to get me to upgrade to an android phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Regardless of what platform he personally prefers, in the end, he wants to make money, and he wants you to upgrade right then and there, and there isn't another WP7 device for him to offer you... what else is he supposed to do? lol
As a sales rep myself, I would attempt to figure out what you want, and get you the device that suits you the best. I'm no Android fan, but if I find out that you like Android, there is little reason for me to try and get you to buy into a completely different platform, no matter how awesome it is. Since you have the only WP7 device on Verizon, there isn't much else he could have done except tell you to buy into a different platform.
But the general idea of your topic, I understand, and its most certainly saddening to see how the market treats underdogs (not only Verizon). Though, I think you'll find that once the dollar signs start shifting toward WP7, the tune of most sales reps will also shift. They go where the money goes.
But when the rep tells me WP7 sucks like its fact and not opinion, that's when I tune out. And its sad because I feel that his behavior reflects on veizons opinion of WP7 in general besides, how are you gonna make tons of cash on a phone OS when you only have one model that supports it? Of course your gonna make a boatload of money if you have 19 phones that all have android on them
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I agree in general that VZW has little to no interest or support for WP7 and hopefully this changes with time as I too have little choice for good reception and am grandfathered on the unlimited data.
Google, Motorola, and Verzon are The Three Stooges. I'm suprised so many people here seem to have missed that...
prjkthack said:
Regardless of what platform he personally prefers, in the end, he wants to make money, and he wants you to upgrade right then and there, and there isn't another WP7 device for him to offer you... what else is he supposed to do? lol
As a sales rep myself, I would attempt to figure out what you want, and get you the device that suits you the best. I'm no Android fan, but if I find out that you like Android, there is little reason for me to try and get you to buy into a completely different platform, no matter how awesome it is. Since you have the only WP7 device on Verizon, there isn't much else he could have done except tell you to buy into a different platform.
But the general idea of your topic, I understand, and its most certainly saddening to see how the market treats underdogs (not only Verizon). Though, I think you'll find that once the dollar signs start shifting toward WP7, the tune of most sales reps will also shift. They go where the money goes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blame yourself for the setup....going to the oem for charging solutions is a setup for fail.
Expecting a salesperson to backup an all but discontinued device (because you like it) is a second setup to fail.
Continuing to support that company month to month is the third setup for fail.
Vote with your money, and enjoy the device you want instead = win ?
Seems like the fowl taste WM and the Kin left in VWs mouth hasn't left pitty.
Sent from my SGH-i917 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
...then Verizon should've been smart and got the HD2 instead of the Kin !
Ok ohgood, let me clarify a few things:
1. I was looking at charging cables. Its not like I ran in, brow sweaty demanding a cable and willing to pay any price.
2.funny how a device that's Been out since early summer is considered "discontinued". Only reason it is could be because VZW deemed it so. Way to give it a chance.
3.maybe you should read why I'm sticking with VZW (great cell service and grandfathered into unlimited data). I'm sure I mentioned it above. Let me check...yep. I did.
So it's hard to vote with ones wallet when my other choice is a cell carrier that drops calls or gets no service in my area all together. Heaven forbid I would like to get a phone that isn't based on specs from a year ago. So, my point still stands. Google might as well buy VZW so they can just outright say "all android, all the time"
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Oh and to add a point, I wasn't seeking an upgrade. I was just browsing,curious about data cables or whathaveyou, and when making small talk, he saw the phone and started off on "the facts" about why WP7 is awful. So he wasn't trying to find my needs. And I get they follow the money, but as I previously stated, of course your gonna make more money on an OS that has a carrier branded tv and radio spot, not to mention the wall sized posters of android phones in store. Yet every vzw store I've been to had the trophy for 2 weeks in a corner of the store where no one would see it. /end rebuttal
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
wakka420 said:
Oh and to add a point, I wasn't seeking an upgrade. I was just browsing,curious about data cables or whathaveyou, and when making small talk, he saw the phone and started off on "the facts" about why WP7 is awful. So he wasn't trying to find my needs. And I get they follow the money, but as I previously stated, of course your gonna make more money on an OS that has a carrier branded tv and radio spot, not to mention the wall sized posters of android phones in store. Yet every vzw store I've been to had the trophy for 2 weeks in a corner of the store where no one would see it. /end rebuttal
Sent from my mwp6985 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I read that about lack of quality cellular service, its familiar to me. He's just using sales tactics that usually work for him, or possibly pointing out reasons other customers have cited for moving to iphone4. Prolly gets him a contract renewal or sale 9/10.
Thing is, no matter how uninterested you are in their hardware choices, you're supporting them month to month.
prjkthack said:
Regardless of what platform he personally prefers, in the end, he wants to make money, and he wants you to upgrade right then and there, and there isn't another WP7 device for him to offer you... what else is he supposed to do? lol
As a sales rep myself, I would attempt to figure out what you want, and get you the device that suits you the best. I'm no Android fan, but if I find out that you like Android, there is little reason for me to try and get you to buy into a completely different platform, no matter how awesome it is. Since you have the only WP7 device on Verizon, there isn't much else he could have done except tell you to buy into a different platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're a good sales rep. Honestly. My last experience with a rep at a VW store went more or less as follows. I walk into the store just to look around because I had time to kill. The rep walks up and asks me what phone I have. I tell him a Focus and that I am on AT&T and am not interested in buying anything, I was just browsing. He proceeds to tell me that my phone's OS isn't any good, and that AT&T sucks (I can't really argue very much with that, though) -- I should switch to VW and get a Droid because they are the best phones available on the market. I asked him if he had ever used a WP7 -- he hadn't, of course. That conversation ended right there and I asked him to show me a Moto Xoom, which is another story.
The glide was rooted a few days after its release, a few months ago and the development of ROMs, etc has been stagnant. CWM was made available for the Glide this last sunday (I believe) and there are already 2 ROMs available. The lesson here?
Rooting does not dictate devolpment, Clockwork does.
Symmetric said:
The glide was rooted a few days after its release, a few months ago and the development of ROMs, etc has been stagnant. CWM was made available for the Glide this last sunday (I believe) and there are already 2 ROMs available. The lesson here?
Rooting does not dictate development, Clockwork does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. CWM provides a safety net to Devs and makes things a lot easier do.
I was an early adopter of the Backflip and development for that phone seemed to take forever. Then my lady got a Captivate(and got me one later) and by that time it seemed like there was so much going on it was impossible to keep up. It's very exciting that development for this device has started so early in its life cycle, and it's really neat to be witnessing it from the ground floor.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I927 using Tapatalk
Symmetric said:
The glide was rooted a few days after its release, a few months ago and the development of ROMs, etc has been stagnant. CWM was made available for the Glide this last sunday (I believe) and there are already 2 ROMs available. The lesson here?
Rooting does not dictate devolpment, Clockwork does.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, but of course, no CWM without root...
The real lesson is that manufacturers should remember who the customers are: consumers. Not hollywood. I'm looking at you, Motorola...
Locked boot loaders and anti-root provisions are a scourge on the mobile industry.
lambgx02 said:
Locked boot loaders and anti-root provisions are a scourge on the mobile industry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that locked bootloaders are a pain, but manufacturers are looking to improve the customer experience; unfortunately, that includes protecting idiots from themselves.
Example: Customer goes in and buys the shiny new phone, comes home and tries installing CM7 on his (unlocked bootloader) phone using the update.zip found on XDA for a different device. Obviously the phone bricks and the customer takes it back to the store where he finds out that he voided the warranty and will not be provided a replacement.
The customer's take away? "I hate XYZ carrier and ABC manufacturer sucks"
Companies spend millions on UX and in the grand scheme of things, locking the bootloader is a pretty inexpensive way to avoid the above situation.
At the end of the day, most stores have a 30 day return policy, so buy the phone you want and if there's no root in 29 1/2 days, return it for one without known bootloader locks.
Symmetric said:
I agree that locked bootloaders are a pain, but manufacturers are looking to improve the customer experience; unfortunately, that includes protecting idiots from themselves.
Example: Customer goes in and buys the shiny new phone, comes home and tries installing CM7 on his (unlocked bootloader) phone using the update.zip found on XDA for a different device. Obviously the phone bricks and the customer takes it back to the store where he finds out that he voided the warranty and will not be provided a replacement.
The customer's take away? "I hate XYZ carrier and ABC manufacturer sucks"
Companies spend millions on UX and in the grand scheme of things, locking the bootloader is a pretty inexpensive way to avoid the above situation.
At the end of the day, most stores have a 30 day return policy, so buy the phone you want and if there's no root in 29 1/2 days, return it for one without known bootloader locks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry man.. I just disagree 100%. I honestly believe that the number of people who brick their phones and try to return them show up on financial reports as statistical noise. It simply isn't a valid argument for a decision about anything.
They lock the phones at the request of content providers to prevent people from exercising their fair use rights (where applicable), and to a lesser extent, to reduce piracy.
The copyright laws of many countries protect time & format shifting, for example. In Canada, it is legal to decrypt an encrypted (DRM'd) movie you've purchased, and copy it to your car's video player to watch it. With a movie purchased through iTunes on a locked iPhone, this is impossible.. which means, if you want the video in your car badly enough, you have to buy it twice.
Copyright law in Canada recognizes the right of resale. Some users may choose to decrypt their DRM'd media so that they can sell it when they're finished. Again, often impossible with locked devices.
Fair use enriches society, but (possibly) not the media companies. DRM is intended to steal from the public to increase media company revenue, but it's not reliable if end users have ultimate control over their devices. So they lobby for laws, and make backdoor deals with companies like Motorola.
The practice is despicable, and must stop.
Excuse the rant.
I was just reading this article:
http://s4gru.com/index.php?/blog/1/...he-midrange-samsung-galaxy-victory-oet-review
And think it's a complete waste of money and resources developing mid and lower range handsets. If I was the CEO of HTC, Moto, or Samsung, I would focus on only 1 (flagship) device in each size category.
It just makes sense on so many levels, economically and marketing wise especially.
For example, the current hottest phone for Samsung is the Galaxy S III, which commands the premium price of being the latest and greatest at $200. They can sell the SGSII for $100 and offer the SGS for free (all on contract of course).
Imagine all the engineers and financial resources they can allocate to flagship devices if they followed this model.
Samsung, Motorola, HTC, please dump all your existing mid and lower range lines of handsets.
Do yourselves and Android lovers a great service!
And lastly, please use the same name for each device for all the carriers. None of this one unique name for each carrier for the same device bullcrap!
It would make sense only if they didn't make a profit on these phones that they push out but obviously they do so they will continue pushing out as many as possible. Luckily it seems Samsung is the only company left doing this.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Apple actually has a patent on that business model.
Some people can't afford to pay flagship model prices.
More handsets with different ranges will appeal to more customers.
There is also those who don't need everything a top of the line phone has.
No way I am going to pay for the top of the line phone for my 12 year old son.
He doesn't need all the features, plus the fact that since he's a kid there is a greater chance of the phone meeting some kind of accident.
lowandbehold said:
Apple actually has a patent on that business model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apple has a low end, mid range, and high end iPhone in the market (4 - free, 4S - $100, 5 - $200+). Even they couldn't ignore the low end of the market anymore.
This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.
Sdobron said:
This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
agreed, some buy the top end phones and figure there is no need for lower. It is kind of like when you hear "buy a BMW because there is no point to buying a lower quality car" Well what if they put even MORE R&D into it and now the phone was leagues better but cost $900 with a contract renewal? Its about making profit and producing what the market wants. one person once made a ton of money on a pet rock.
Sdobron said:
This post demonstrates no business knowledge whatsoever. Like previously mentioned not everyone wants a flagship or even a smart phone. You need to cater to a wide range of users.
It's not about focusing all your resources on flagship models for a smaller group. They make a large profit on lower and mid range phones too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, the point is this.
HTC, Moto, and Samsung can all take huge advantage of economies of scale when they only make flagship model phones. How many components can Samsung share between the Galaxy S I, II, III and soon to be out IV?
Apple is making PLENTY of profit ONLY selling to people who want smart phones.
Sm0k3d 0uT said:
Some people can't afford to pay flagship model prices.
More handsets with different ranges will appeal to more customers.
There is also those who don't need everything a top of the line phone has.
No way I am going to pay for the top of the line phone for my 12 year old son.
He doesn't need all the features, plus the fact that since he's a kid there is a greater chance of the phone meeting some kind of accident.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The idea behind this is that everyone gets a flagship phone. You might not have the latest generation of the flagship phone, but it's still a flagship phone from its time.
The Galaxy S I was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $0 with contract.
The Galaxy S II was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $99 with contract.
The Galaxy S III is the CURRENT flag ship phone and Samsung offers it for $199 with contract.
----------------------
When the Galaxy S IV comes out, just phase out the Galaxy S I and offer this:
The Galaxy S II was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $0 with contract.
The Galaxy S III was a flag ship phone and Samsung can now offer it for $99 with contract.
The Galaxy S IV is the CURRENT flag ship phone and Samsung offers it for $199 with contract.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I think it's the best business model out there! You can save more costs due to sharing some components across generations and everyone gets a flagship device. That alone does a lot for the perception of your brand. Apple doesn't make a crappy mid or low range phone, so their brand is never associated with cheapness. But, you can get an iphone 4 for cheap now, it's $0 with contract. It's also 3 generations behind...but that also means the parts inside it are cheaper to buy, because they too, are 3 generations behind.
lowandbehold said:
Apple actually has a patent on that business model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to patent this business model!
Yup this I think, is what needs to happen. Way to may phones coming out every year. It would also help with updates. Cheap phones is what gives android a bad name. After someone buys a cheap crap phone then tries an iphone they always end up switching.
Well, your logic in saying they would save money by mass producing more of just one or fewer models is only partly true. Surely there's some benefit, but as large portions of the guts of these budget phones are just last year's processors and chips...what you're saying is already partly happening. I agree it is quite annoying and confusing to bother rereleasing slightly modified versions of previous models as budget phones, but I'm not sure that they truly would save much in terms of production from simplifying their lineups. There may be a certain logic to the rebranding as many average people don't realize they're buying old tech if it's just released, and look, cheaper!
The real benefits of condensing the amount of models is probably just to gain more notoriety for making one good phone, which I guess really is copying the Apple model. Only one laptop, one phone, yadda...which is kinda boring to me. Thus my preference would be to keep some variety out there, but if they are going to release more devices, add more actual variety, not just useless rebranded old models.
EDIT: Additional complaint...I really hate it when people worry about the extra 100 dollars up front for a phone that costs such a ginormous amount of money on contract
johnchad14 said:
Well, your logic in saying they would save money by mass producing more of just one or fewer models is only partly true. Surely there's some benefit, but as large portions of the guts of these budget phones are just last year's processors and chips...what you're saying is already partly happening. I agree it is quite annoying and confusing to bother rereleasing slightly modified versions of previous models as budget phones, but I'm not sure that they truly would save much in terms of production from simplifying their lineups. There may be a certain logic to the rebranding as many average people don't realize they're buying old tech if it's just released, and look, cheaper!
The real benefits of condensing the amount of models is probably just to gain more notoriety for making one good phone, which I guess really is copying the Apple model. Only one laptop, one phone, yadda...which is kinda boring to me. Thus my preference would be to keep some variety out there, but if they are going to release more devices, add more actual variety, not just useless rebranded old models.
EDIT: Additional complaint...I really hate it when people worry about the extra 100 dollars up front for a phone that costs such a ginormous amount of money on contract
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read my OP, I said they should release one flagship phone for each size segment. But for smaller players, like LG, just make one phone. Bigger players, like HTC, Samsung, Motorola....they can make a 4" phone, 5" phone and 4" phone with keyboard.
They all aren't going to make the exact same size 4" or 5" phones. Just look at all the models in the 4.x" range. You still will have the diversity of Android.
Turb0wned said:
Yup this I think, is what needs to happen. Way to may phones coming out every year. It would also help with updates. Cheap phones is what gives android a bad name. After someone buys a cheap crap phone then tries an iphone they always end up switching.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are 100% correct!!!
We should post on Moto, HTC and Samsung's Facebook pages and let them know what we want!
Apple will not have a chance in hell if each company only focused on one kickass, flagship device. Imagine the HUGE benefit to consumer as well!!!
The only problem I see is when your making only one phone or just a few phones and Apple gets them banned your SOL on all sales until its sorted.
In theory, this is a good idea. However, android technology evolves way too fast for this to work. It's possible to get a GS2 for free on contract and a GS3 for like $50 if you look hard enough. If you're really good, you can get really any phone (besides an iPhone) free on contract
People want different things though, i for one think 4.8 inches it's too large, and personally, if they fit some nice specs in a keyboard phone with unlockable bootloader AND removable battery, I'd be all over it. I like the options, and I'm sure many others enjoy having a choice as well.
And keyboard phones don't sell like they use to so they're no longer flagship phones, even the Droid series is dissolving.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
Only if they happened to have designed the perfect budget phone 2 years ago, no changes necessary (or, in the case of apple, if your consumers don't care and would just buy anyway). Reading your example, this new phone was designed precisely because they were able to add newer, better components while still keeping it a budget phone.
Now, your strategy might make sense for some (say, if your company can't afford to spend the money, HTC style) but I doubt you'd convince someone like samsung, whose business model is based on one-upping their opponents in all areas, to do so. As Ashton suggested, Android (unlike the iPhone) is driven too hard by competition, so that the vendors are forced to evolve even their budget lines.
thebobp said:
Only if they happened to have designed the perfect budget phone 2 years ago, no changes necessary (or, in the case of apple, if your consumers don't care and would just buy anyway). Reading your example, this new phone was designed precisely because they were able to add newer, better components while still keeping it a budget phone.
Now, your strategy might make sense for some (say, if your company can't afford to spend the money, HTC style) but I doubt you'd convince someone like samsung, whose business model is based on one-upping their opponents in all areas, to do so. As Ashton suggested, Android (unlike the iPhone) is driven too hard by competition, so that the vendors are forced to evolve even their budget lines.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, none of the antagonizing arguments make sense.
If Android vendors are under more competition, then it makes MORE sense to adopt this business model.
It's no wonder Jelly Bean web penetration is only at 1.2% a full two months after its release. Look at the staggering amount of handsets that have to be upgraded. Even the SGS3, a flagship phone, isn't getting JB until October. But, the Nexus S has it already...because Google only makes one model. Say Samsung cut down to only producing the GS and Note series phones and just used the previous gen models to sell as "budget" phones. It would be so much easier to do software upgrades for their customers (which is what everyone wants...check their FB page, number one question is...when is my phone going to get the next update?).
Also, the whole argument about diversity has already addressed. HTC, Moto and Samsung all aren't going to make the same size phones. That's not to mention the smaller players like Sony, LG, etc. They'll all stake a claim somewhere in the 4"-5" range. HTC and Samsung will also stake claims in the 5"+ territory.
AshtonTS said:
In theory, this is a good idea. However, android technology evolves way too fast for this to work. It's possible to get a GS2 for free on contract and a GS3 for like $50 if you look hard enough. If you're really good, you can get really any phone (besides an iPhone) free on contract
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That sounds counter intuitive. If Android tech evolves really fast, then that's actually all the more reason to adopt this model. The budget phone segment will get a new "update" every 9mos or whatever the cycle is at now that new flagship versions are being released. Samsung and others can allocate more engineers to work on just two models and get software updates out faster.
Sign the Petition
https://chn.ge/2OhGn3Z
Done
Lol it's a waste of time...HTC rushed Android 8 just to get it out there and it sucks. They won't update any further sad to say.
It's pointless
We will never see something like this
I agree, it's totally pointless - they'll never do it, but I'll sign it anyway.
I did it too! I hope for the best, but even if we get to 100, isn't it not enough?
They have no reason to upgrade a 2-year-old flagship phone to Pie, no matter how many signatures you get. 2 years is all you get. Why would you invest all the dev resources into upgrading a phone that is no longer manufactured, and will provide absolutely zero return on investment? As a business owner, I sure as hell wouldn't do it.
whiteduck89 said:
They have no reason to upgrade a 2-year-old flagship phone to Pie, no matter how many signatures you get. 2 years is all you get. Why would you invest all the dev resources into upgrading a phone that is no longer manufactured, and will provide absolutely zero return on investment? As a business owner, I sure as hell wouldn't do it.
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We have come to a point that a device which cost around 600 euros (!!!) has a lifespan of 2 years and this is considered OK... Think about that for a moment. It's not anyone's fault, but peoples' who always buy the newest no matter how much it costs.
But damn, even Apple launches a new iPhone every year and they support the devices with updates for 4+ years. So business-wise, there is no excuse why Android manufacturers shouldn't do it as well. The problem is that it costs way more to upgrade an Android device, plus there are many parties who need to upgrade the software for their parts.
@errikosd yeah it sucks but that's the way it goes, unfortunately ... Planned obsolescence is a horrible business practice that even Apple did, by dumbing down the processor speed and battery capacities. Until they were caught that is ...
Signed. But not sure if it will go anywhere. In my books, HTC 10 remains the best phone of its time.
No hope guys.
https://twitter.com/htc/status/1028000627794706432