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Ok guys, Long time lurker, First time poster here.
Been hanging out around the forums for a while now, but this is the first problem I've ever had that I just couldn't figure out on my own.
Screen dead. Have to return to TMO. What to do about existing rom???
Last Saturday night I was playing around with my phone before bed. Everything was fine. Woke up in the morning and the screen was dead.
The backlight comes on but no display what so ever. No HTC screen, no bootflash, no nothing. Everything else still works.
I can feel events happening on the screen when I touch so the digitizer is clearly up to snuff.
Also I have been able to get the phone into fastboot from memeory, so its a start.
I contacted Tmo about a replacement and it arrived today. I'm running GingerVillian 1.4. So the big question is what do I do about the ROM on my phone. Also, what happens if they get the phone back and discover it has been rooted. Will I get a bill for the full price of the unit? Anybody know??
The way I see it I have three options, but if I'm missing something please let me know.
1. Attempt to flash stock ROM via recovery using up down vol and track pad. And just not worry about S-off. If it looks the look, will they check Hboot for s-off???
2. Attempt a side by side deroot using the new G2 and the broken one next to each other.
3. Physically damage the memory somehow preventing the phone from booting.
#2 seems like the worst option simply because I will have no way of verifying that any step in the process is successful... (Scary prospect) of course this applies to option 1 as well but I figure I could go through the flash process two or three times just to be sure. Option three doesnt exactly sound like a winner either, just putting it out there.
Comments please, a little help would be greatly appreciated.
I would go for the blind flash of pcimg10 from sd root. Then plead ignorance. Confused tho ...did u say u can see the bootloader txt or no?
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App
No, screen displays jack squat, nada.
Also wasnt there a huge writeup about how I'm not supposed to flash pcimg10...?
Bluetygator said:
No, screen displays jack squat, nada.
Also wasnt there a huge writeup about how I'm not supposed to flash pcimg10...?
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Depends on how you're rooted. I'm gfree'd and every now and then I'll copy that out to sd root and reflash it. It flashes fine, unroots the phone, but still leaves s-off. I've been thinking about this - again- after reading your post because I've thought this would be the worse-case scenario. That is a screen in some state where you just can't see what's going on.
If it were me, I'd at least want the factory load on it and hope that should they run some diags, put on a new LCD then boot it up, it could all be done without really noticing the s-off in bootloader.
For me though, I just would have a hard time physically damaging it - that would get me a 130$ refurb on my handset protection or if I tried to just kill some internal IC like the ram, I'd be even more worried they'd eventually find that for what it was.
edit: obviously your number 1 is the easiest since it's just answering volume up after giving it a few minutes on boot to parse the pcimg10 file.
edit2: okay, how about, hook jumper cables to it, blast it, then send it back and just claim you were hit by lightning
I'm perm rooted using visonary r12.
Yeah not going to damage it. I just wouldn't have it in me.
What worries me is if I flash pc10.img and something goes wrong I would have no way of even knowing it. Was thinking about just regular old CM6.1.
You people worry too much. Just send it in. As long as they receive an intact G2 with no physical damage to the screen (this bit is crucial if you got a swap out for anything screen-related) then you'll be just fine.
I have read on more than one occasion that if you cant turn on or see screen, as long as ur void stickers are still intact, and there is no water damage (moisture detectors all ok) they do not care.
Though not confirmed.
EDIT..... But if I were in your position then I would do as ZKID suggested with the pc10img thingy.
if there is nothing on the screen, it sounds to me that maybe the copper ribbon on the phone that attached the bottom of the phone with the keyboard to the screen portion could be damaged or loose... this happend with a buddies g2 and he was rooted and everything like you... he just sent it in as is and they never mentioned anything to him or gave him any problems because if it. he thinks they just saw the screen wasnt working and that was it.
This is probably completely a result of my stupidity but I rooted my phone a while ago. I had a nandroid back up set before i flashed to any custom roms just in case anything happened. Then i flashed to the back up again and wasn't running any custom roms. it was just still rooted because i never got a chance to unroot it. I then installed an update not thinking about it at all and im pretty sure bricked my phone. When it first happened it had two green arrows in a circle around another green arrow pointing down at a picture of a phone. I pulled the battery and drove home all day. I just got home and tried to turn it on and nothing is working. The charge light is not coming on when it is plugged in, vol up+ power and vol down+power button doesnt work. it seems like nothing i can do can turn this phone on. any ideas on how i can fix this?
ps. i have also checked and made sure the battery works and everything
koda4life said:
This is probably completely a result of my stupidity but I rooted my phone a while ago. I had a nandroid back up set before i flashed to any custom roms just in case anything happened. Then i flashed to the back up again and wasn't running any custom roms. it was just still rooted because i never got a chance to unroot it. I then installed an update not thinking about it at all and im pretty sure bricked my phone. When it first happened it had two green arrows in a circle around another green arrow pointing down at a picture of a phone. I pulled the battery and drove home all day. I just got home and tried to turn it on and nothing is working. The charge light is not coming on when it is plugged in, vol up+ power and vol down+power button doesnt work. it seems like nothing i can do can turn this phone on. any ideas on how i can fix this?
ps. i have also checked and made sure the battery works and everything
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seems like you bricked it, your not support to pull out during any installation radios,updates..etc. keep it on the charger for a while and then try to boot up or try to go into hboot again
davidc23 said:
seems like you bricked it, your not support to pull out during any installation radios,updates..etc. keep it on the charger for a while and then try to boot up or try to go into hboot again
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i didnt pull during the installation. i let it download and install and it rebooted by itself. so it seems like everything was installed properly it just bricked afterwards any idea? thanks for the help though
If you pulled the battery during the arrow pointing at the phone stage, you're bricked. That was most likely a radio update, and pulling the battery during that will give you a phone that'll never turn on again.
When exactly did you pull the battery?
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
yeah, you can't pull the bettery with that logo on, sometimes after an update the phone will go into that mode where it seems unresponsive but it always pulls through. If you pulled it out during that time then the previous posters are correct and you likely have a very handy paper weight (hope you have insurance, or have a clean phone that has no damage so you can claim a warranty issue). If you didn't pull the battery during this time and it just died or powered off on you then you could have a battery issue, while unlikely it doesn't mean that it isn't possible. I would take the advice and let it sit on the charger overnight, if that doesn't wory then I would just take it to sprint and play dumb. If it's bricked and won't turn on then they won't be able to tell that it was rooted, just say you plugged it in at night and woke up and it was dead. Not that i'm an advocate of screwing sprint, but we put up with ****ty wimax so whatcha gonna do....
yep, if you got insurance just go to sprint and tell them you updated to 2.3 and then it just shut off
damn, i didnt realize that it was still updating. thanks for the heads up, it's definitely bricked lol but i have insurance thankfully. best way to go about getting a new phone? is there a specific excuse i should use or just play dumb? but thanks for all the help. i really do appreciate it
koda4life said:
damn, i didnt realize that it was still updating. thanks for the heads up, it's definitely bricked lol but i have insurance thankfully. best way to go about getting a new phone? is there a specific excuse i should use or just play dumb? but thanks for all the help. i really do appreciate it
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As others before me have stated, just tell sprint that you ran the "new update" and it restarted your phone and now it does not work.
Make sure you don't mention anything about being rooted or pulling out the battery....
anthonyandrews said:
As others before me have stated, just tell sprint that you ran the "new update" and it restarted your phone and now it does not work.
Make sure you don't mention anything about being rooted or pulling out the battery....
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okay thanks again!
Gotta love Insurance fraud! No wonder my insurance premium just went up.
{ParanoiA} said:
Gotta love Insurance fraud! No wonder my insurance premium just went up.
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So insurance premium raising never has to do with wanting higher profits? And this whole time I thought insurance companies were blood suckers.
All jokes aside, insurance fraud is not cool.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
Rem3Dy said:
So insurance premium raising never has to do with wanting higher profits? And this whole time I thought insurance companies were blood suckers.
All jokes aside, insurance fraud is not cool.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
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insurance companies deserve to pay. Especially auto insurance. ****ing highway robbery.
Sent from the bowels of my mind.....
{ParanoiA} said:
Gotta love Insurance fraud! No wonder my insurance premium just went up.
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It wasn't root that bricked his phone, it was HTC and Sprint pushing an update without instructing users properly. He pulled the battery thinking it was stuck. It was an accident. Just like dropping or losing your phone. That's what insurance is for.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
possibly bricked evo 4g's
i just received 2 evo 4g's from a friend that couldn't get them to start up and was wondering if there was a procedure beside power and down volume buttons...i have tried holding them down for about 5 mins and also just holding down the power button by itself to no avail.....any help would be greatly appreciated.....
ps they were plugged in all night and also made sure the battery was working by putting it on another evo and they also work....just wanted to see if anything else comes to mind.....btw they are out of contract so no insurance..
I was using the phone today and the screen suddenly locked up on me. It wouldn't respond to any button presses so I just did a battery pull to reset it. However, the phone won't turn back on now. It doesn't do anything, even when plugged into the charger, the phone doesn't even indicate that it's charging or anything at all. It's like it has been completely bricked.
It was completely stock, never unlocked it or rooted and never installed any custom rom or anything of that nature. I've only had the phone for a couple of months and I'm completely baffled as to what could have happened. It certainly wasn't anything that I did.
Any ideas? Or does anyone have any experience with this type of thing happening to their phone?
So I've left the battery out for over 30 minutes and it still won't turn on. I have an extended battery and the regulary battery that came with the phone and it won't turn on with either battery.
I have also tried the volume down and power button method and that doesn't do anything at all either.
Plugging the phone into the computer with the USB cable also does nothing.
How long have you had the phone. Did you buy it from a store?
.....Clones & Drones.....
Mine did the exact same thing! It was realy weird, however all i did was keep the power button pressed and it rebooted fine.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
ptmr3 said:
How long have you had the phone. Did you buy it from a store?
.....Clones & Drones.....
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I got the phone when it was released and I ordered it online right from Verizon's website.
I hope that you have the warranty from the carrier!
gulmat said:
Mine did the exact same thing! It was realy weird, however all i did was keep the power button pressed and it rebooted fine.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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I wish it was that simple for me.. I held the power button down for over a minute and still, nothing happened. This is really frustrating.
!!!!!!!+111111
evolishesh said:
I hope that you have the warranty from the carrier!
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.....Clones & Drones.....
ptmr3 said:
!!!!!!!+111111
.....Clones & Drones.....
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I'm not sure about that one. I know I don't have insurance thru verizon but isn't there a manufacturer warranty? Like I could get a refurb from verizon instead of a brand new one?
I've never had a smartphone just stop working for no reason at all and I was never really into modding them so I thought I was safe. I guess I was wrong.
Really disappointed in Samsung right now. This is my first nexus device, not sure if I'll get another.. That's totally lame to have a crap product that just stops working for no reason. This is an unmodded phone, completely stock, never been dropped or anything of that sort. The only thing that I did was swap the regular battery out for the extended version.
russ4h said:
I'm not sure about that one. I know I don't have insurance thru verizon but isn't there a manufacturer warranty? Like I could get a refurb from verizon instead of a brand new one?
I've never had a smartphone just stop working for no reason at all and I was never really into modding them so I thought I was safe. I guess I was wrong.
Really disappointed in Samsung right now. This is my first nexus device, not sure if I'll get another.. That's totally lame to have a crap product that just stops working for no reason. This is an unmodded phone, completely stock, never been dropped or anything of that sort. The only thing that I did was swap the regular battery out for the extended version.
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I'd definitely go to Verizon with this. Most definitely manufacturer defect.
Hold down volume up and volume down and the power button. Does it boot into fast boot? Id say if it doesn't do anything then go ahead and call your carrier because its a faulty unit. You can also try plugging it in without a battery and then Inserting the battery. That also saw sends a power up signal to the device. Though I don't know if this trick works on a nexus three. This was an old trick to "jump start" a nexus one that had a faulty power button. But aside from all this, it sounds to me like you've got a faulty unit whether you get it running or not. Probably just need to swap it , sounds like something went pop.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
You should be able to get a refurbished phone.its probably just a manufacturer defect.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
android01 said:
Hold down volume up and volume down and the power button. Does it boot into fast boot? Id say if it doesn't do anything then go ahead and call your carrier because its a faulty unit. You can also try plugging it in without a battery and then Inserting the battery. That also saw sends a power up signal to the device. Though I don't know if this trick works on a nexus three. This was an old trick to "jump start" a nexus one that had a faulty power button. But aside from all this, it sounds to me like you've got a faulty unit whether you get it running or not. Probably just need to swap it , sounds like something went pop.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Thanks for the tips, I tried the volume up, volume down, and power button method just now and it doesn't do anything. I Also just tried plugging it in and then putting the battery in and nothing as well.
The thing is, I don't have insurance thru Verizon (i.e. the $5 a month thing). Would going to them even benefit me at all? Do you know if they would offer a refurb or something?
The phone has a 1 year warranty on it. You shouldn't have to pay anything but you might just get a refurbished replacement.
I think I had the same thing happen to me a few days ago. However, I have the GSM version that I bought from amazon (thru a third party seller), so no warranty. Yeah, I know. Smart. Also, in my case, I unlocked the bootloader so I could flash the official yakju so I would get updates faster from google. Despite some lagginess with 4.0.2, it had been working great for a month+.
When mine crashed, all I did was press the back button and the screen went crazy and froze up, then started glitching and made a buzzing sound. I pulled the battery and tried a reboot. The Google logo would glitch and "ghost" and then the animation would start, but it was slower and choppy. After a few seconds, it froze and the screen was all low-rez looking and I could see what I can only describe as strange pixelation or scan lines (with a few of them moving from the top of the screen down to the bottom in a continuous loop). The only way to get it to stop was another battery pull.
I tried to use fastboot to get back in and reflash to the original firmware, but I kept getting a usb error (didn't have that when I first unlocked the bootloader using a mac, so not sure what the problem was). Now, the phone won't get passed the Google logo and just sits there for 30+ minutes without making any progress (that I can see). I keep trying to get back into the bootloader using fastboot, but now it won't even do that.
I've contacted Samsung/UK (as that's where mine originated), but don't think I will be getting any help based on their initial response. And, since my bootloader is unlocked, that probably voided the warranty anyway. I have no idea what happened, but it seems like some sort of combination of hardware/software problem. So, basically I'm screwed and out $700.
russ4h said:
Thanks for the tips, I tried the volume up, volume down, and power button method just now and it doesn't do anything. I Also just tried plugging it in and then putting the battery in and nothing as well.
The thing is, I don't have insurance thru Verizon (i.e. the $5 a month thing). Would going to them even benefit me at all? Do you know if they would offer a refurb or something?
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Click to collapse
I'd say go contact Verizon and see what they say. If they can't help you out then you gotta contact Samsung and I believe (if my memory serves me right) all their products have a one year warrenty from the day the phone was used. So you should see what they have to say.
Similar thing happened to me, it rebooted itself, as it has been doing quite a bit of lately, and then wouldnt turn on no matter what I did.
Eventually just help the POWER and VOL DOWN button together to reboot, and it worked fine again. I'm completely stock wtf.
tandp74 said:
I think I had the same thing happen to me a few days ago. However, I have the GSM version that I bought from amazon (thru a third party seller), so no warranty. Yeah, I know. Smart. Also, in my case, I unlocked the bootloader so I could flash the official yakju so I would get updates faster from google. Despite some lagginess with 4.0.2, it had been working great for a month+.
When mine crashed, all I did was press the back button and the screen went crazy and froze up, then started glitching and made a buzzing sound. I pulled the battery and tried a reboot. The Google logo would glitch and "ghost" and then the animation would start, but it was slower and choppy. After a few seconds, it froze and the screen was all low-rez looking and I could see what I can only describe as strange pixelation or scan lines (with a few of them moving from the top of the screen down to the bottom in a continuous loop). The only way to get it to stop was another battery pull.
I tried to use fastboot to get back in and reflash to the original firmware, but I kept getting a usb error (didn't have that when I first unlocked the bootloader using a mac, so not sure what the problem was). Now, the phone won't get passed the Google logo and just sits there for 30+ minutes without making any progress (that I can see). I keep trying to get back into the bootloader using fastboot, but now it won't even do that.
I've contacted Samsung/UK (as that's where mine originated), but don't think I will be getting any help based on their initial response. And, since my bootloader is unlocked, that probably voided the warranty anyway. I have no idea what happened, but it seems like some sort of combination of hardware/software problem. So, basically I'm screwed and out $700.
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That's awful man. I've been reading more and more about random reboots happening with this phone and what not.. I just don't know what to think right now, I thought this was supposed to this beast of a phone and now after only a couple of months, it has completely stopped working for no apparent reason at all. Pretty lame, and this has definitely never happened to me before as I always take care of my phones. I just figured that if something were to happen to this phone, it would be from my own doing, just as it has been with every other phone that I've ever owned (ie from modding, from a drop, etc.). Samsung gets a thumbs down from me, I paid a lot of money to get this phone and now I'm going to be stuck with a refurb because they have put out a crap product.
As for you, I wouldn't even tell Samsung that you unlocked it. They probably won't be able to tell if you did or not since the phone won't boot properly. They should offer you a refurb, so you'll be in the same boat as me. I went into Verizon today and that's the best that they could do. I have to wait til Monday for it to come in the mail. I'm stuck without a phone til Monday.
volsey said:
Similar thing happened to me, it rebooted itself, as it has been doing quite a bit of lately, and then wouldnt turn on no matter what I did.
Eventually just help the POWER and VOL DOWN button together to reboot, and it worked fine again. I'm completely stock wtf.
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Click to collapse
Yeah, it's looking like this phone has been giving many people similar problems. Samsung must have let a bad batch slip out or something. I was completely stock as well, no unlock, no root, no custom rom, just a plain old basic user here and mine took a dump on me.
Mine does this about every other day and I have to pull the battery and restart, sorry to hear yours won't reboot. Ouch
I've searched the forums for a while and haven't found an issue exactly like this..
At first my phone would boot and the soft keys would light up and the LED would shine while charging. Shortly after that, I had no display and no illumination whatsoever on my screen. I just disassembled the phone to make sure all of the bands and connecters are connected and they are fine. I have reason to believe the screen works because when I receive a call, i can press where I usually would to accept calls and it works.
I have done some research on getting a new digitizer, screen, ribbons, etc.. but it's just too costly to justify it seems.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
warheed said:
I've searched the forums for a while and haven't found an issue exactly like this..
At first my phone would boot and the soft keys would light up and the LED would shine while charging. Shortly after that, I had no display and no illumination whatsoever on my screen. I just disassembled the phone to make sure all of the bands and connecters are connected and they are fine. I have reason to believe the screen works because when I receive a call, i can press where I usually would to accept calls and it works.
I have done some research on getting a new digitizer, screen, ribbons, etc.. but it's just too costly to justify it seems.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated
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Click to collapse
Try to Odin stock
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
You may have to go into sprint and ask for a new screen. That happened to me once and they replaced it and it worked fine ever since. I had water damage on mine though
Sent from my Samsung Epic 4G using Tapatalk 2
xboxfanj said:
You may have to go into sprint and ask for a new screen. That happened to me once and they replaced it and it worked fine ever since. I had water damage on mine though
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You can do that? Will they deny you if you're using a rooted phone or do you have to go back to stock first...
Sunchips said:
You can do that? Will they deny you if you're using a rooted phone or do you have to go back to stock first...
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Depends on where you go and who you get. The last time I went, the associate thought it was awesome that I have sense on my phone. If possible, Odin back though.
I did get around to blindly putting my phone into download mode and flashing the stock tar through odin.. I'm assuming the flash worked since I heard the stock boot/shutdown animation theme music accordingly.
Unfortunately the screen and the soft keys are still not illuminated. The QWERTY remains functional including backlighting.
My phone is no longer on any network, but do you think I could still take it up to a location and bs my way into getting at least a used equal or lesser value device?
Put it up on Fleabay as a clean ESN, broken screen phone and stop wasting our time while you try to scam Sprint.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk 2
You're right, certainly not an ethical option. I'm more of a DIY person though, as I'm sure I could say the same for everyone else here.
Do you think it's the whole screen that needs to replaced? Ribbons and all? If so, do you know of a good source for me to purchase what I need
warheed said:
You're right, certainly not an ethical option. I'm more of a DIY person though, as I'm sure I could say the same for everyone else here.
Do you think it's the whole screen that needs to replaced? Ribbons and all? If so, do you know of a good source for me to purchase what I need
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Don't do it. I bought my Epic for $80 and replacement screen costs $70. AND I'm in China where electronic products and accessories should be cheap.
Sent from Nokia N900 w/ Android 2.3.7
Hello all.
I am an HTC guy through and through and have never owned a Samsung device. I'm familiar with HTC's S-OFF/HBOOT/bootloader stuff, but I'm not really all that clear on how it works for Samsung devices. I promise I've tried to do some reading before hand before coming to you, including looking at other threads, but they don't seem to be the issue I'm having.
I'm trying to help a friend out who has an AT&T GS3 that I unlocked for him and put an AOSP ROM on it a few months ago (don't worry, I made damn sure it was the AT&T version and no other carrier/international ROM).
He came to me today telling me that his phone suddenly turned off, and was not turning on again. I figure it's probably just a corrupted partition, something that I could fix with a reflash or something like that.
However, when I look at it, it seems to be something potentially worse. The phone did nothing with the battery in, so I took it out and put it back in. The phone very briefly vibrates, the Samsung logo shows for about 1.5 - 2 seconds at most, and then the screen goes dark.
When I try to enter Download Mode, I'm able to get to the custom software "warning" page, where I press Volume Up, and it shows me Download Mode and "Waiting" (as I expect it to) but then the screen just goes black again after about a second or two.
It's roughly the same with Recovery Mode, I can catch a glimpse of what looks like CWM (but I'm not entirely sure) and then the screen goes black.
If I choose to forgo the battery altogether, and I plug it in straight to the wall, the red LED on the top right lights up for again maybe 3 - 4 seconds at most, the light goes away, and the phone briefly vibrates, shows me the Samsung logo, and then goes dark.
I'm confused. I don't know if it's a brick, but then again, to me as an HTC user, "brick" means Qualcomm USB Download mode. I've also read about this infamous Samsung Sudden Death Syndrome that struck some of the 16 GB models that Samsung sold (and yes, you guessed it, this is the white 16GB model).
I don't really know what other troubleshooting options there are (but as I said before, I'm an HTC guy). If any of you have any sort of advice I would love to hear it.
Thank you for your time.
I've seen several users on here in the last few months with this issue. I worked with one of them for awhile trying to get it straightened out but couldn't resolve the problem. Some of that was due to the nature of the problem and some was probably due to the fact I didn't have the phone in my hands to help the new user better. I believe the user was able to get an exchange at an at&t service center. Sorry I can't offer more assistance. Keep us posted if you get a fix.
xBeerdroiDx said:
I've seen several users on here in the last few months with this issue. I worked with one of them for awhile trying to get it straightened out but couldn't resolve the problem. Some of that was due to the nature of the problem and some was probably due to the fact I didn't have the phone in my hands to help the new user better. I believe the user was able to get an exchange at an at&t service center. Sorry I can't offer more assistance. Keep us posted if you get a fix.
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I appreciate you trying. I know it's such an odd issue that it's really hard to diagnose. I thought perhaps it might have to do with the battery somehow being "bad", but then the problem would be gone when I go AC only.
He's not against the idea of going to AT&T, but I feel bad; I convinced him to unlock and let me flash a new ROM so I feel that I should at least put in a good effort to make sure there's nothing more I can do.
Yeah, the biggest problem is that once you get into recovery or download mode, the device reboots/loops. This eliminates the possibility of any kind of flashing or wiping.
You might have a bad motherboard. If I was you I'd take it to att for a replacement. BTW if he doesn't have insurance for the phone they do have open enrollment , I'd wait a day or two after enrolling to submit a claim.
Wish you the best.
Sent from my SGH-I747 using xda app-developers app
LiquidSolstice said:
I appreciate you trying. I know it's such an odd issue that it's really hard to diagnose. I thought perhaps it might have to do with the battery somehow being "bad", but then the problem would be gone when I go AC only.
He's not against the idea of going to AT&T, but I feel bad; I convinced him to unlock and let me flash a new ROM so I feel that I should at least put in a good effort to make sure there's nothing more I can do.
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It's a realllly long shot but he could contact mobile tech videos and tell them his issue and see if a jtag repair would help. If it's hardware of course he is out of luck but it's worth a shot and a lot cheaper.