Related
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
RAMMANN said:
What's this got to do with old apps? If you want to install a hack you first need to submit it to Marketplace? Oh! I forgot there's no hacks on WP7....
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You will still be able to load apps on to the device from Visual Studios. It will just require giving out the source to do it. So hacks and such that people don't want to go through marketplace will be able to distribute there code as long as they don't care that everyone will beable to see the source.
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
I think you just have to accept that WP7 never will be "hacker friendly". I'm starting to wonder if there would have been less whining over the WP7 platform if they'd branded it something completely different, like "Splonge" or "Zaarkoft", since its got virtually nothing to do with WP6.5. The community's expectations would maybe been more realistic.
What's sad is of course that the 6.5 series probably won't be developed further and few or no new devices with better hardware will come with 6.5 (or 6.6 or whatver), but I guess there always is ... Android? Or Openmoko or whatever it's called.
Shasarak said:
Hmmmm. Interesting. Sounds like something that might be exploited by a jail-break procedure.
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I like this, hopefully we can get ahold of it and exploit it to it's fullest potential.
Idiocracy of the Mobile World
It seems everything is so dumbed these days...making things is a easier to do is fine but damn. For me I hear windows mobile I think mini pc but now it seems things as a whole are headed towards playskool sh!+ for adults. I blame newbies that dont/cant read manuals & use commn sense (u won a lottery u neva heard & u paying money to receive the winnings lol). I also blame the pos companies/people that push malware/spyware/phishing. Windows customization is gift for the tech savy but a curse for impatient eye candy lovers.
Nilzor said:
By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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As I see the Marketplace evolving I must state I've never seen so many new and ugly $1-apps. I'd better pay $20 for a well-designed with great UI and functionality or donate something to a as great freeware app than sponsor those marketplace whores that even don't offer a trial.
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
Nilzor said:
Given that we pretty much knew that WP7 wasn't going to be backward compatible software-wise, this one is not that big of a deal. You wouldn't be able to run the old apps anyway. By forcing apps through the marketplace, Microsoft does a clean cut from the old and ugly apps.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
How about wanting to sideload applications MS doesn't want to compete with or otherwise decides is unsuitable for my delicate sensibilities? How about wanting to sideload content made by indies that can't afford MS's regulatory scheme? How about wanting to sideload content so I can get it direct from my friendly neighborhood developer, with all the incumbent benefits and freedoms thereof instead of submitting myself to the whims of a markplace's DRM mechanisms?
Of course, I'm not exactly blown away by the news. Anyone with half a brain knew once the Zunies were in charge of WinMo this was the inevitable result.
brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
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Students can get the fee waived with dreamspark. All you have to do is verify with your school e-mail. I've already done it.
ladieslova said:
I've just found this article, and was not happy to read it:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/confirmed-marketplace-will-be-the-only-way-to-get-apps-on-windo/
This left me very disappointed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we have another way...
quote:
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
brummiesteven said:
This is bad for small time developers, people like me (I'm a computer science student) who would never be able to pay the fees to put an app on the market.
At least with Android I can distribute APKs how I like and people can download and install.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
chaoscentral said:
Ummm, if you're a student u get a free annual subscription. it's annual, Google has it too, but its $25 bucks to sign up while this is $99 like Apple's. If you can't afford $99 a year, you should probably get a job...
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any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
fortunz said:
I'm not sure what your logic is here. There's no reason to want sideloading unless you want to sideload winmo6 apps?
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Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
havox22 said:
any student or do you have to be in that field?? cuz im just taking my basic ed classes so would i qualify?
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Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
TehPenguin said:
Any University student (if your University isn't on the Dreamspark list, contact Microsoft)
Highschool students are also eligible (but they require their school to sign up on their behalf)
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thanks to bad im in community college, but my girl goes to sdsu so maybe i can get it in her name
nvm my school is on the list
Nilzor said:
Flawed, I know. But I mean, we know up-front that we cannot sideload WP7 apps so It's not like we've been held in the dark here and wasted thousands of hours developing WP7 apps in the belief that we can sideload and distribute the old way. For those of us that still want a "hacker friendly" phone, we still got WP6.5 and competing platforms.
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Click to collapse
I agree, that's a valid point. I don't even think we were in the dark from the first day of WP7s' introduction, before this little confirmation. The moment they sent their hipster zunies out to explain how great it was, at least half of us knew they were using Apple's playbook.
I began to come to terms with migrating to android on day 1, and the stench of betrayal has mostly passed on.
Update: Microsoft wanted us to clarify that enterprise customers will be able to deploy apps to employees outside the consumer-facing Marketplace -- details on that will be released in the future.
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Click to collapse
There Will be alternate ways to load apps onto the device, gotten from an updated version of the same article.
MS really need to sort out its advertising campaign i think. Im in the UK and its all very quiet over here, those `really` wouldnt want me to buy a wp7. i was in the US and noticed the presence of WP7 a bit more... but still the question is what is the best way to advertise WP7. what would make you think... i want one of those!!!! doh ive clicked the poll button but it wont give me any options to sort the poll help!!! im sure this happened to me last time.
They need to show what the phone does instead of a bunch of people just using it. The big advantage wp7 has its its unique and fluid interface and they need to show this of more.
I also think they should push the zune pass a lot more as for the law abiding music lovers this is the best music service there is. It also would help if the uk got the 10 perminant downloads a month that the usa get.
As for its presence i don't know if i watch different tv to the rest of you (maybe as my wife makes me watch crap) but i see the wp7 adds more then any other phone though the iphone is very close second.
They also need to check the stores as they are not pushing it bar orange who from what i have seen are the only ones clued up and pushing it (even the tv adverts are for the mozart on orange). When i went to the o2 store the display had 2 demo phones but both where vandalized and just left and the display itself was tucked away round a corner. I think they should also send there own reps out to shopping malls like htc are doing for the desire range and push there brand with there own sales people, displays and demo's. Give people a chance to see it and be shown how it works properly they will love it but one thing i get from non phoney people is that it looks different so they don't know if they would be able to use it then once they see how easy it is there hooked but they need to be shown first before they are sure.
i wanted to poll this how can i do it? when i try polling it did not give me options to type what i wanted.
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Need to tweet this thread to the world
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are right mate. Office is nice. However this should at least match DocsToGo.
It is available for WM and Android.
Current Office is sweet but absolutely too limited.
Seriously, it's not one thing that really sets WP7, it's the INTEGRATION of ALL those things that sets it apart. When I show my focus off to people, I start with the integration with contacts to facebook (that I have their number/email) and show that I can write on their wall, send an email, txt and stuff and if they have an address, how I can quickly map it to Bing and then find directions. Also updating my facebook status and commenting. Then I show them the voice command for search to call people or find a place and directions. The dedicated camera button. Xbox games and it's graphics. I forget to show them Zune (but I don't have a zune pass) besides how if I go to a youtube video that it saves my recent history so I don't have to remember the site. I also show them pics uploading to facebook and show them how my pictures automatically upload to skydrive and tell them about the 25 GB free of online storage.
It's really how all those things come together which is why I love my WP7. It's SYNERGY! lol.
davidebanks said:
no business users on xda? would have thought that wp7 office would have scored some points. im always using wp7 office i tend not to write stuff on it but use it to transfer documents. come to think of it. wp7 office is the main reason why i stuck with windows mobile in the first place...after having the laggy htc diamond 2 i wanted some slighty bigger and far quicker and was being drawn towards the dark side when wp7 came along. all the other stuff, like zune, xbox live cemented my decision
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
lqaddict said:
I hope you are not serious about business users. As our Chief Security Officer put it for our CEO and CTO when they brought their wp7 devices to work and wanted integrate them with our Exchange environment: "leave the toys at home".
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
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Puhleeezee....
Forget the rest of the features, it's going to be Xbox Live that sells it to the mainstream.. they've already started advertising this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHNWL-WdzsM
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
I went into O2 today and asked to see the HTC HD7 (was with a friend and left mine at home). and the guy said, yes, but we also have the iPhone and took us to it without asking me. Which greatly saddened me as the WP7 has better features like (bing search to find places near you faster, back button, smooth/glossy/simple interface, Xbox live, better music marketplace, better SDK ect). but if you don't know much, you would have go to the iPhone. Yet another idiot who doesn't know anything about phones. Selling phones >.<.
All of them partially! I mean none of them separately is SO amazing but TOGETHER...
You don't believe Facebook is the only key selling point.
You may laugh but office IS important too.
The mix is important. Fluid modern OS. And integrity with MS services.
Also the fact that WP7 devices are highend. Good browser and Email. Homescreen.
Its a tough choice I think which comes down to personal preferance at least it shows that wp7 has a lot of good things working for it. Looks like Xbox live is taking a good lead Microsoft would be wise to exploit their Xbox users to give wp7 a good advantage over other phones
wspaw said:
Puhleeezee....
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Agree, Lol!
WP7 actually has better Exchange support than Android, and the data on the devices are more secure than on Android devices.
But given who you quoted, I'm not surprised
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
action_efn_jackson said:
Looks like I'm only 1 of 2 who voted for the Bing search. I really like the voice integration and the way it gives you the 3 categories. News, web, local.
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Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
and it's US only.
Fine for most business users
lqaddict said:
Believe it or not but setting AllowSimplePassword was more than enough to violate the security policy enforced http://social.technet.microsoft.com...tions-when-using-windows-phone-7-clients.aspx
The subject of on-device encryption just put a final nail.
It might be ok for small businesses not to care about these policies but large organizations rely on the security provided by the Exchange if they care about security of their email transactions.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I own 2 small businesses and WP7 is fine (better that WM and Android for me). I'd wager most WP7 users are not in large corporate environments where email security is on the forefront - I can't imagine anyone hacking my phone for my email.
davidebanks was serious in recommending WP7 for business users. Probably the majority of them, as there are many, many industries with mobile needs that don't need such airtight email security (it can still be fairly secure, btw).
To say that he shouldn't be serious and to quote your Chief Security Officer's cute little one-liner dismissing every device on the platform as a toy is a disservice to those using this tread for what it is intended for. There is a thread comparing WP7 to Android, btw.
N8ter said:
Google has this. The differences are mostly in the user interface. It's not an advantage.
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Click to collapse
As in a Google App or Andriod OS?
Just under 2 weeks now .
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/microsoft/microsoft-slates-mango-vip-unveiling-for-may-24-in-new-york/9389
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
andoridkiller said:
does the developers kit mean that develpoers will get mango on their wp7, or they can only make wp7 apps? As I can sign up to become a developer for free due to dreamspark?
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I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
I'm excited to see what they announce. All the features leaked over the last few days are already nice (plus all the Developer goodies announced at MIX), but you know thats just the tip of the iceberg, and they will probably have one or two major things to announce as well.
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
Casey_boy said:
I doubt it. I expect it'll just run in the emulator.
Also, you have to submit an app if you're signing up through DreamSpark to get your identity verified by GeoTrust.
Casey
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Yes Developers will get an image to install on there test phones this has been stated several times including at mix11.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Click to collapse
The OS is far from dead, and a steady marketshare despite the disgusting drop in Windows Mobile sales shows that. Microsoft is basically countering the complete loss of Windows Mobile market sales with Windows Phone, which can't be an easy task, to be honest. People don't see this. And all the reports I've read show this, aside the biased blogs which look like they were written by users on this site.
But, I do agree with the huge spike coming with Mango and Nokia. Microsoft has developed a steady foundation where many developers have seen the ease in development for the platform. Therefore, once the available apis are there, I see them all joining the platform. After all, they're here to make money, and the more OS platforms they're on, the more potential they have.
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants, aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype. Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
FiyaFleye said:
Honestly, the phone is fine as it is now, it does everything the real public wants
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No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
aside from chat and Words With Friends -.- and things like AIM are basically dead to the American teenage market, where FB Chat has taken over and Skype.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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Click to collapse
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Come Mango, the "missing" features will flood in, and with Verizon's marketing history, and Nokia's dominance, I think the outlook is significantly more positive than some on here would lead you to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
This is Microsoft, they don't lose.
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Click to collapse
I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
Peew971 said:
No it's not, most people have issues with Live Tiles and Notifications and that's a big deal. When you get an eBay "outbid" notification after the auction is over you would agree it is totally pointless.
To be fair AlphaJax is just as good as Words With Friends .
You're totally wrong on AIM, there are enough people who can't be bothered to go through facebook to chat with their friends. Have you seen how popular BBM is? Not to mention WLM and Google Talk.
Partly agree, Mango will make it a great OS and that's the OS that will sell people, not Verizon (which is US only) or Nokia, although they will help.
Unnecessary fanboyism. I'm a MS fan too but can't occult Windows Mobile 6.5, Zune or Kin as overall failures.
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People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
FiyaFleye said:
People is very inclusive. I had to intentionally break my Live Tiles for them to stop working. But, I do agree Push Notifications needs work, however, this is not a vital piece of the phone, and none of the major apps even use it. I do get extremely irritated when Microsoft can't communicate with my phone and it returns back to the server that I can't be reached... It should continue to try... Which is unfortunate as it takes Rowi & such to provide fixes, which shows its possible to make them more reliable for now. Second, BBM isn't AIM, I would argue that GTalk or whatever the hell it is would be more important than AIM, and there are already alternates. I believe AIM is the only major player with no support, third party included, on the OS, but you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol. They made Motorola relevant again too. Verizon and AT&T jumping on the WP7 bandwagon is important, extremely. Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success. They just didn't want to jump into the consumer market the way they should have, but WinMo was huge... So huge that it's still being developed for on here, when it's pretty useless when it comes to the average consumer. Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers. The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that. Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
you need to understand that THIS generation of American teenagers relies more on FB & Skype/Oovoo than I did on AIM 10 years ago... AlphaJax may be as good, but it doesn't have the cross-platform ability of WWF, nor its popularity. Potential iPhone customers want to see the name WWF, and Angry Birds, not Alpha Jax and Chicks&Vixens...
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Click to collapse
Is this a teenage phone? You may be on to something here.
For you to downplay the Verizon inclusion, or Nokia deal is ridiculous tho, and we usually agree issues from what I've seen. Verizon singlehandedly blew Android up. ALONE, Lol.
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So verizon made a ton of different Androids, and sold them around the world to zillions of people. Don't let a single ad campaign fool you. You have to forget about HTC, Samsung, and Motorola to say that. I can guarantee you, it won't happen for WP.
Microsoft is an American company, and as we saw with Xbox, their American success determines how hard they pursue the rest of the world. WP7 MUST be a success here, and I believe it will be... Android is also in trouble, lots of it, legal wise from what I keep reading.
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OMG, the Xbox crutch. Stop it. Microsoft is a consumer failure, and you guys rely on this one product to measure its success.
Also, you know Oracle had to drop 98% of their claims against Android.
Fanboyism? WinMo was a success until the market changed lol, a huge success.
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A huge success? Please stop it. The sales have never been great. The HD2 is the highest selling Microsoft phone EVER.
Kin was a failure because I'm almost positive they were using it as a guinea pig for their cloud services... Which sucks for those customers.
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No, the company you praise called Verizon made Kin fail. It had a high ass smartphone data plan.
The Zune wasn't a failure either, they just didn't back it with the necessary advertising. But as far as a product, it was extremely successful, and it most cases, better than the iPod... And it led the way to this OS...
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It was better than the iPod, it just didn't do as much as the iPod. Zune wasn't a success either. Stop it. Everyone knows it wasn't.
Microsoft has a history of pouring money into things it wants to succeed until it gets it right... I just see that.
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Name 4 consumer products that succeeded from Microsoft. Products that don't involve another corporation or OEM, Microsoft consumer products. I'll start
1. Xbox
2. ?
3. ?
4. ?
Apple got "lucky" with the iPhone, and they've run with it. And the iPhone has singlehandedly made they cool enough to own all of their products. But I see Microsoft's attempt to integrate everything now as a "we'll own these markets if it kills us" approach.
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They got lucky with the iPhone? Sure my friend, lets not go there.
Peew971 said:
- Teenagers might rely more on facebook but remember teenagers aren't the target from what MS stated last year. IM might still be the best option.
- Agreed on WWF, didn't know it was cross-platform. Don't get me started on Xbox Live.
- Maybe it's best to focus on other territories just as much, if not more than on the US. Verizon isn't in Europe but Android are still selling like hot cakes.
The key IMO is to have the best possible OS and as many carriers onboard as possible. I'm not downplaying Verizon, just stating doing well in the US isn't the end of the road (e.g. the Xbox 360 is behind the PS3 in worldwide sales).
The Nokia deal is great but many people have stayed with Nokia for Symbian (oddly enough) so not all users will carry over to WP7.
Let the OS do the talking is what I say, more than Verizon and Nokia.
- Yes Winmo was a success, I specifically said Winmo 6.5 which was an attempt to stay relevant in a changing market. That didn't work.
Zune was/is a great player (I went through 2) but it wasn't a success, which was the point I was arguing.
Kin was a failure, I'm sure they believed in it. Just like Zune it can bring great features to WP7 though.
So you must admit that your "MS never lose" was a bit pushing it, I'm sure other people can find other examples.
I'm just as optimistic as you are probably for WP7, it's just that I don't see it as a walk in the park at all.
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XBL is hindered by the lack of APIs, we both know that. We're going to see multiplayer the second Mango lands, I'll bet anything on that. Also, the OS can do all it wants, but when HTC and such put horrible quality cameras, and hardware on these devices, it's going to hinder their sales. I've been fortunate, but others haven't in terms of cameras and such.
About Android, they're about to have that success because of their explosion here though, and that's my point. Microsoft needs to succeed on its turf before it can succeed everywhere, same as Google did with Verizon.
And the PS3 might be ahead in lifetime sales, but my point is that now the 360 is the #1 platform afaik... And has been for a significant while now. And like I said about the Kin, I don't think they ever cared about the Kin, just what it offered, and how they could test their cloud services... At least it seemed like it. they released the Kin after development of WP started... Which leads me to believe they weren't in it for the long run.
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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It's not dead. Not by a long shot..
WP7 has slow adoption rates but it's doing fine. The general public who buys most of this stuff has no idea Mango exists or what it would do for them.
WP7 is a great, feature rich, easy to use and elegant OS. It has what it needs to excel it just needs more advertising and some kick ass hardware like Android has been getting.
Updates like Mango only appeal to the very small number of enthusiasts such as ourselves.
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs. From that point of view it's dead. Mango will change that. Mango will also make the platform more desireable because it won't be seen as a dead end for so many people, as WP7 currently is with it's limitations and lack of top/useful apps.
If you mean dead by ceasing to exist than that's not possible, not even Windows Mobile is dead yet, if going by that definition.
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO. I think Microsoft would have struggled to sell half the devices they did if they told users up front they'd have to wait a year for a decent feature update before it RTM'd...
The way they view it, trying to justify the current state of the OS with Mango is like trying to justify RTM Vista using Windows 7 as a rebuttal. It just doesn't work, especially when users have months of this clunky user experience to look forward to before they get an update, and lord knows how to carriers will handle that...
N8ter said:
The problem with Skype isn't really its existence or lack thereof. It's the fact that major players like Google and Microsoft do not have decent mobile clients. Windows Live Messenger supports VoIP and Video Calling. So did Google Talk and look how long it took Google to add it into Android. I'm unsure if Micorsoft is adding this in Mango, but we don't know all the details.
Read reviews online. Most people who post them want Skype for the Video Calling and Free Skype to Skype VoIP. With the proliferation of Smartphones these days, in many cases it's just dumb to pay Skype anything when you can have your friends install the app and do it all for free, Lol.
Google and Microsoft have the capacity to offer those same services with a better user experience. They just need to get off of their asses and do it. Skype hysteria is completely due to services like WLM and Google Talk sucking on smartphones.
Then again, Skype would probably file AntiTrust suits against them if they did that
I've never understood people who were all "SKYPE SKYPE SKYPE!" when they really should be saying "fix your fking mobile clients so we don't have to install this boring battery hogging app that restricts functionality on various platforms because they have carrier deals" and things like that.
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windows Live/Massanger whatever you call it will be built in/integrated in the contacts/people tile.
MS is trying to buy Skype, or joint venture, so u will see video call on WP7.5 devices...
N8ter said:
It depends on how you define dead. Form a development perspective it's dead. There are too many things you simply can't do on the platform, nad there are too many apps that are impossible to port due to the lack of APIs.
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Last time I checked, Marketplace was doing just fine for a platform that's 6 months old. I agree there are gaps in functionality and things devs can't do, but does it warrant the term "dead" really?
N8ter said:
But there cannot be much momentum for WP7 until Mango hits. The OS was released in a state that simply doesn't allow it at the moment.
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Mango schmango. WP7 won't have any serious marketshare until it gets dozens of devices and worldwide distribution. Even if it were the most functional thing in the world it would still need it, otherwise it's doomed to linger in the WebOS type of marketshare limbo.
Oh, and a couple of "flagships", too.
N8ter said:
If you look at WP7 and Mango the way Microsoft looks at them: two completely different OS releases instead of a base OS and an update or SP, then the average consumer who brought these devices and were forced (using the term loosely) to use it in its current state should be pretty pissed, IMO.
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Why should I be pissed, sorry?
vetvito said:
Probably the best thing they can do right now. The OS is dead until Mango/Nokia. When Nokia devices hit with Mango I expect to see a huge spike in sales and development.
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Waiting for this but i'm not holding my breath. With their track record, this Mango update could get released waaay late 2011 or early 2012. Maybe when the flagship Nokia/WP7 comes out with better specs than what is present (3year? old specs), and IF they expand their marketplace/zune support to include my country, with way better apps and games that are worth the Xbox Live logo ( Lunar Lander anyone?) i'll consider picking one up again (gave my HTC Trophy to my sister).
Seriously, this is just a preview. Stop complaining people.
We are going to have everything we asked for!
Messenger, Skype, Twitter and Facebook inside our OS like no other.
Better push notifications, faster, more reliable.
API, API, API and more API.
IE9
Multi Task for third apps(!!!!!!!!!!!)
New languages, dictionarys, markets..
And bug corrections.
What more do you want? Microsoft wouldn't announce something like "Oh, and it download embedded images from email. It's magical!".
Or you expect they to mention something stupid like that?
Wait and try the OS by yourself.
Usually, I'm complaining about MS and their failures. But.. Seriously, they're doing everything fine about Mango. At least, until now.
I bet someone will say "oh, it doesn't have video chat". Screw it. No one uses it. Even the 'Almighty' Android doesn't have it. Guess just now, and just for Nexus S. No one really care. It's just to say "I have it!".
Stop complaining for nothing. Microsoft is doing great!
vetvito said:
^ I can agree with that. Early adopters will be the one's screwed over.
I also believe Nokia will be the only maker of WP devices, if not the only, they will be the most dominant. That is if, they stop their other projects.
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Why? I think the samsung devices are doing fine, once mango has more languages a new major part of the world will start buying the devices. Right now if a phone is not in your native language a lot of people are not interested thus it is not marketed in those countries (half of europe). Imagine these markets which are very wealthy countries (some of the most wealthy countries actually) start to buy wp7. In these countries the design of the software is very important, maybe even more important than the features and if HTC will also design good devices along with Samsung I think they will stay. The people who've seen my phone asked me what it was and if I like it. I say yes, however native language support + multitasking + next level apps (all comming with mango) will really make it a superb platform.
Most guys here are phone tweakers, dont forget the majority of the customers are not like us and if they see some well designed apps like IMDB they are sold.
The reality at the moment is no native language for those countries, buggy features because of the system locale settings, no marketing/advertisement, no possibility yet to BUY apps (yes this is very important for a smartphone). Once Mango drops the word will spread and it will surely count. Samsung who sells a lot of its devices on these markets will see boosts in sales, I can see people being done with android or BB or iphone after those years of the same lay-out, so a change to WP7 will be very logical and if all desired features will be there people will enjoy it and tell their friends,
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2394671,00.asp
So how is it possible for Microsoft to have now owned Skype but other platforms have the app and we WP7 users don't have it yet? Does anyone know when this will be released for WP7.5?
Seriously, the deal just closed today. It will come.
vetvito said:
Seriously, the deal just closed today. It will come.
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Thought it was coming even if they didnt buy Skype. Or Skype is just coming because MS bought it?
Everyone knows that it will come. The problem is WHEN it will come. Not blaming anyone, I knew it when I bough this phone which has no apps, but I'm tired of waiting.
They only said skype was coming before the end of the year. So hopefully we'll get it before then.
mikeeam said:
Thought it was coming even if they didnt buy Skype. Or Skype is just coming because MS bought it?
Everyone knows that it will come. The problem is WHEN it will come. Not blaming anyone, I knew it when I bough this phone which has no apps, but I'm tired of waiting.
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no apps? wp7 has plenty of apps, but it is less dependent on apps than say iOS which is nothing but an app launcher. to compare a 4 year old OS to a 1 year old one when it comes to apps is just plain stupid and idiotic at best
It just closed. Meaning up until yesterday, they were separate companies. And up until last week, for anti-trust reasons, they were not allowed to work together on anything.
theman60625 said:
no apps? wp7 has plenty of apps, but it is less dependent on apps than say iOS which is nothing but an app launcher. to compare a 4 year old OS to a 1 year old one when it comes to apps is just plain stupid and idiotic at best
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you should probably settle down.
I'd like to see skype integrated into the messaging hub as well. Probably have to wait until wp8 for that though.
theman60625 said:
no apps? wp7 has plenty of apps, but it is less dependent on apps than say iOS which is nothing but an app launcher. to compare a 4 year old OS to a 1 year old one when it comes to apps is just plain stupid and idiotic at best
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If people are really wondering why the "haters" keep coming here to "bash" WP7, it is largely because of posts like the one I have quoted here, and the attendant fanatical attitude of people who agree with it.
Calling people who have different tastes, preferences, and perspectives "stupid and idiotic" invalidates anything else you might be trying to say.
MS will probably release this as an update via Zune. Carriers will take 5 months to test it. It will take another 5 months before everyone gets it.
ammarmalik said:
MS will probably release this as an update via Zune. Carriers will take 5 months to test it. It will take another 5 months before everyone gets it.
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Still down on the OS update process after how well the Mango update was executed?
And this is coming as an app first, and integrated into the OS (and other Microsoft products) at a later time.
theman60625 said:
no apps? wp7 has plenty of apps, but it is less dependent on apps than say iOS which is nothing but an app launcher. to compare a 4 year old OS to a 1 year old one when it comes to apps is just plain stupid and idiotic at best
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This post is just plain stupid and idiotic at best.
It's coming.... It's possible that the app that Skype planned was retooled/re-planned by a new Microsoft lead team..... I believe it WILL be here before the years end........... And I believe it's going to top anything the competition has to offer.......
Look at the new batch of windows phones getting ready to release or have been released.. They have FFC's and surely that's for something major such as Skype and not just some little OEM app such as the Samsung one....
Then in either the Tango or Apollo update, I believe it's going to be INTEGRATED into the OS.....
Hi, I asked this question to them via Twitter, they offcially said, It will do come in fall, which mean, with the ref website they officially provided to find what date is "the start of Winter", before 22nd December, 2011.
Hope it will help
I assume it will be in Apollo, tango 1 &2 will be simple updates .. nothing major will be present in those ( few languages , minor bug fixes )
mikroland said:
Then in either the Tango or Apollo update, I believe it's going to be INTEGRATED into the OS.....
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And that's something that could be really tasty - Skype chat integrated into messaging with SMS/WLM/FB, updated contact cards allowing Skype calls, etc.
An app in the Marketplace this fall would fill the gap, of course, but real stuff won't come before a next major update.
Skype 'text' chat
I would appreciate just Skype 'text' Chat to start with. At least some form of interaction with your current Skype contacts would then be possible.
I'd be fine with an app right now, with deep integration further down the line.
Like Facebook or Twitter for instance
gburt said:
I would appreciate just Skype 'text' Chat to start with. At least some form of interaction with your current Skype contacts would then be possible.
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through the wait, just get free IM+ for skype chat
Yeah, an app in the interim to be able to make and receive skype calls would be great, as I'm prepared to wait for proper integration such as there is in Mango with WLM and FBC - great work by the MS team, and to be honest, I didn't even realise at first that they were integrated into messaging now - loving it!
Not here because their sockets api sucks and any IM app has to go through ridiculous hoops for basic functionality. There's a reason why there are no good instant messaging apps on WP7.
Has anybody heard about Microsoft or Nokia planning a commercial for Superbowl. This would be the perfect opportunity for Microsoft or Nokia to debut a commercial showing off the OS among the many viewers who will be tuning into the Superbowl. Lots of people watch the superbowl just for the commercial. I hope some of that advertising money will bring about an amazing commercial for WP7.
I hope they do, and believe they will. Its a perfect time to advertise both WP & the Lumia's.
I guess they could push the 710. Seems too early to advertise the 900, that's ~6 weeks.
Ok the superbowl is amognst us today. Has anybody heard of any MS commercials that will be branding WP7.
This is the perfect time for MS to market their product like crazy. WP should have sponsored the superbowl. lol
If any commercials post them here:
PG2G said:
I guess they could push the 710. Seems too early to advertise the 900, that's ~6 weeks.
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There will be movie trailers for summer films during the Superbowl, so it's never to early to build up anticipation.
Samsung is planning a 4th quarter commercial stating something dramatic.
What does MS or Nokia have to rebound off of this
937dytboi said:
Samsung is planning a 4th quarter commercial stating something dramatic.
What does MS or Nokia have to rebound off of this
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it will be interesting ... maybe bill gates and that comedian guy trying on shoes again ? LOL (just reserving a place to comment later
Was just a Samsung Galaxy Note commercial. Oh well.
Didn't see any iPhone or other droid commercials, also didn't see any carrier commercials cept for USCC, no sprint,no AT$T,no T-mob or Andrizon. So not a total disappointment.
Yeah, that commercial was pretty lame.
guy: "*GASP*, is that a pen?!"
Yes, and they were laughed out of existence in the early 2000's as completely cumbersome and useless.
And now it's some sort of godsend? No thanks, I've had a stylus device. There is no positive to it whatsoever.
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
Didn't see any iPhone or other droid commercials, also didn't see any carrier commercials cept for USCC, no sprint,no AT$T,no T-mob or Andrizon. So not a total disappointment.
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The competition (with 90%+ market share) didn't advertise, so its ok that m$ (with -4%) didn't ? I figured people would be raising hell over a lack of marketing.
Also, the pen the note has is... well you should try it out...
Seems the official web-stream from NFL.com was a different story...
Ads for Verizon and the Samsung Galaxy II all over the place.
ohgood said:
The competition (with 90%+ market share) didn't advertise, so its ok that m$ (with -4%) didn't ? I figured people would be raising hell over a lack of marketing.
Also, the pen the note has is... well you should try it out...
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its not m$ its MS and they have way more than -4%.
prohibido_por_la_ley said:
its not m$ its MS and they have way more than -4%.
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M$ is widely understood to mean microsoft, it seems the $ is derogatary or just a dollar sign, depending on the point of view.
The "-" was a typo., it was supposed to say 'around' 4%, which is a best guess, since there are no official sales numbers from M$. Last I read it was 43% android and 45% iphone, but those numbers change from source to source too.
Even if the samsung note ad was over the top, it has people talking. The stylus may have been a plan to get it even more free publicity, attracting the old palm pilot lovers, I don't really know. The screen size is a draw for me...
I was so disappointed that there wasn't an add for the Lumia 900.
It probably made the most sense, since the device is not expected for another month and a half...but still.
samsabri said:
I was so disappointed that there wasn't an add for the Lumia 900.
It probably made the most sense, since the device is not expected for another month and a half...but still.
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imo windows phone no-show is better than samsung paying millions for that stupid galaxy note commercial.
sure haven't said:
Yeah, that commercial was pretty lame.
guy: "*GASP*, is that a pen?!"
Yes, and they were laughed out of existence in the early 2000's as completely cumbersome and useless.
And now it's some sort of godsend? No thanks, I've had a stylus device. There is no positive to it whatsoever.
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I have to say, nothing has tempted me to abondon Windows Mobile as much as Galaxy Note. For the artistically inclined, Galaxy Note is a godsend.