Develop Bugs

WP7 minimum requirements

WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.

The demo shown was using non-final build of the OS.
Something like BETA version, not yet final version.
There you would expect: bugs, glitch, errors, etc.
But still, it is quite impressive.
We can only judge the "perfectness" of the OS later when it has been "OFFICIALLY" released.

chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.

who's to say it needs all 1GHz? i think they're doing a great thing by setting that as minimum. our devices would be up to date much longer or at least it will feel that way. It's a good sign for those who don't like upgrading every year, no?
Besides, the Nexus One is 1ghz.... Supersonic will probably be 1ghz..... Everything will be 1ghz by the time wp7 comes out, if not more.

RustyGrom said:
Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he said. It's set because it's very doable.. at the end of this year, which manufacturer would expect a new device to be competitive using an old processor? Setting a bare minimum as the minimum would mean that you have 7 Series phones which perform much crappier than others.. a situation they want to avoid.
Plus it's mobile XBox.

My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...

gogol said:
My prediction:
Touch HD3
Qualcomm Dual Core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon processor
4.3" OLED Capacitive screen WVGA 800x480
No hardware keyboard
5 MP Camera with auto-focus and flash
aGPS
FM Radio
Windows Phone 7 Series
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the new qualcomm 1.5 ghz chip is not meant for mobile devices till now it is used for mini notebooks the one which will be avaliable for devices is the 1.3 ghz version same specifications as the 1ghz processor but with 45 nm technology( uses less power ) same graphics performance but with 300 mhz over clock speed nearly same performance but less power consumption

Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.

freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think 1ghz is enough for a mobile os (the win xp runs on 500mhz processor and on 128 of ram )

It's not all about the clock rate. An ARMv7 processor at 500MHz is about twice as fast as an ARMv6 processor at the same clock speed.
(that's why the iPhone 3GS is so much faster than the iPhone 3G, despite only having 200Mhz more)
Windows XP doesn't run on ARM processors at all.

freyberry said:
Where does it say 1GHz is required? Right: Nowhere.
An ARMv7 processor is required. iPhone/Pre/Droid all have ARMv7 processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.

chiks19018 said:
WP7 calls for a minimum of 1ghz processor.
That does make me think - how come the competition is able to provide smooth UI with 600mhz phones? ie. android / iphone / palm pre?
Is the WP7 so much processor hungry? that is calling for trouble...
your thoughts please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I'm sure they could, but Microsoft wants there to be very high minimum specs that developers can expect so that all apps can take advantage of the hardware to its full extent. An example would be the way WinMo apps are now. Most 3D apps aren't very good because the minimum of what developers can expect in a device isn't very high; thus, they have have to make it use as little resources as possible.

Based on what I'm hearing most current 6.X phones will be unsupported unless they pack a Dragoon. I hope the scorpion CPU is used in a win7 phone.

RustyGrom said:
It's about more than just the basic UI. Lots of background stuff going on. All those live tiles need CPU power to populate. The Zune HD with a similar UI is only 600mhz. Microsoft is just setting the bar high so that the entire device is snappy. Compare the experience of an Android phone on a Snapdragon to that of a lesser CPU and there's a big speed difference. Microsoft is just demanding the best and it gives them more room to grow. If they set the bar low, the devices will be obsolete much sooner. Besides, faster stuff will likely be out by the end of the year and 1ghz will be somewhat commonplace. Apple's iPad is 1ghz and if they release an updated iPhone later this year I'd bet it will be 1ghz as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, I would agree this is their plan as well. Personally, I would like to have phone stay pretty current within the 2 year contract I have to sign to get one at a fair price....
Insurance is mandatory on this one...

Ignore this post

RustyGrom said:
Microsoft said that Qualcomm was the only silicon provider right now.
Qualcomm said they are pleased that their Snapdragon CPU has been chosen for WP7.
Snapdragon runs at 1ghz+.
Therefore, in effect, the minimum CPU is 1ghz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).

freyberry said:
Snapdragon can run at lower clock rates as well (e.g. 768Mhz in the Acer Liquid).
They also have slower processors besides Snapdragon (though I don't know whether the 7227 is ARMv7, I don't care about low end devices ).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any CPU can be underclocked. The "normal" speed for Snapdragons is 1ghz.
Qualcomm specifically mentioned that the Snapdragon had been chosen for WP7.

How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!

gogol said:
How about the famous HTC graphic acceleration driver?
I hope this time there will be no more missing graphics driver for WP7!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft said they're providing the drivers for these phones, I think

EDIT: Never mind.

[LEAK/INFO] Found something interesting about HTC HD7 on on the HTC RMA

Commercial name: HTC Trophy (HTC 7)
Codename: Spark
Specifications:
WVGA screen
8-Megapixel camera
1GHz Snapdragon processor (QSD8250)
3G Network: HSDPA 900 / 2100
Hope it's interesting
Regards,
B

I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig

Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?

VelJharig said:
I have to confess, unless you're talking about the 8 MP camera, I don't see anything that was unknown from earlier leaks. Is that what you're referring to, or am I missing something obvious?
Also, I'd recommend taking down the second image. The name of the user logged in isn't blocked in that screenshot.
Cheers,
--VelJharig
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the head up

RustyGrom said:
Any more part numbers/models listed? Anything showing US models?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I only have access to the European portal atm.

Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP

I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.

RustyGrom said:
I, for one, don't care what chip is in my phone as long as the outcome is good. From everything we've seen, the performance, including 3D Games, is pretty damn good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?

Mr.Sir said:
Can't believe HTC uses the Q8250 which is now almost 100% confirmed.
Byebye HTC, never liked your phones anyway, they are crappy as phones. Pooooooooooor speakers, pooooooooor batterylife, poooooooooooooooor cameras, pooooooooooor reception.
All above is right compared to other brands, the 4 most important things in a phone aswell, bad bad.
This certainly doesn't look like they are shaping up
Edit: Either way, good find OP
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.

Mr.Sir said:
But could have been better, as well as:
*Cheaper
*More energy efficient
*Newer
Why accept old "crap" in extremely expensive premium devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also can't understand what is happening? It's one thing if HTC would have gone mad or something, but all leaks is pointing towards the QSD8250.
If you don't want a cheaper phone that preforms better and have a better battery time, it's up to you, but I want exactly that!

I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices

domineus said:
I hate to state the obvious but doesn't EVERY first gen wp7 device have the same qualcomm processor? strict hardware requirements anyone?
I mean if you knock htc for doing that you may as well knock everyone else for doing it. Fact is that's what microsoft specified for the first crop of devices
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a link? We're just complaining that all the leaks are leading to the first gen Qualcomm processor. You know, the one that was in the Toshiba TG-01 back in June 09, with the lacklustre Adreno 200 GPU. If it's the newer snapdragons with the Adreno205 GPU, then that'd be ALOT more acceptable for a current generation device.
In saying that, the Harvest game demo looks hot, but personally, i find it hard to believe that the Adreno200 is doing such good eye candy. I'd like to be proven wrong.
I'm still crossing my fingers that Samsung will have a hummingbird/SGX540 in theirs.

I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.

RustyGrom said:
I just want to know what people are referencing to make them think the 8650 is cheaper than the 8250? I'm not buying that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)

Cruzer1 said:
Dont know about cheaper, but it should be abit faster, and less power hungry giving better battery life, due to it being 45nm rather than 65nm. The real breaker is the GPU really. The Adreno 200 on the QSD8250 is like 1/3 the speed of the SGX540.
There are still rumours about that WP7 devices might have the QSD8250A processor @ 1.3ghz, so theres still hope.
Here's a list of Snapdragon CPU's
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapdragon_(processor)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I get that but people are claiming that it's cheaper as well which seems highly unlikely to me. Maybe over time but not yet.

45nm parts are cheaper to make since they can fit more of them on a single wafer. I have no idea if they are sold cheaper or not to manufacturers but they are cheaper to make.

Op thanks for the look. You still need to remove the second pic as there is no information that isn't in the first except who is logged in.

RustyGrom said:
Because it's not "ancient" or "crap" and will allow for devices to be cheaper than they otherwise would be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe the 8255 is cheaper, because it's manufactured on a 45nm process instead of the 65nm. That means more chips per waffer = lower prices.

krjcook said:
I don't don't seem to understand why your angry at HTC and MS for using the Q8250 processor.
Think about it this way, That processor is the minimum hardware requirement for WP7, so every application and game will be optimized for all devices and developers can take full advantage of the hardware.
Now lets talk about Android fragmentation. Even if you get a Android device with a 2ghz processor and Froyo the applications won't take full advantage of you hardware. Why is that? Because there are Froyo devices on the market with 528mhz and 600mhz qualcomm processors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I partly agree, however:
Microsoft have said all phones will run all programs, no fragmentation. But we do know that if not the first wave uses the Adreno 205, the second one will. How long will the game developers care about the ones with the first Adreno 200 users?

Will future versions feature multi-core processors??

Hi,
Not to long ago samsung released their new dual core processor "Orion" with has some amazing specs. They says it will be up for mass production in frist half of 2011.
Both qualcomm and lg has also new smartphone processors coming next year.
Will future windows phone 7 devices feature this? The snapdragon in the current devices is kinda outdated...
My ultimate windows phone 7 phone would feature:
512 meg ram or more
at least 1GHz Orion or similar dual core processor
800 x 480 or greater super-amoled multitouch screen
4" screen
Sleak design in aluminium

Yeah.
WP7 will get put onto all the new software as its needs to compete with Android and the iPhone.

Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.

Agreed, I believe in Q2 2011, the processors will finally be available for manufactures
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Audio said:
Although the 1GHz snapdragon is a little outdated now i think some people don't realise that it is still a beast of a processor, and WP7 has been specifically designed to run perfectly on it as it was the minimum requirement for Hardware Manufacturers don't forget.
Having Qualcomms "Still in Development" 1.5 Dual Core inside a device would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen anytime soon (2012 at the earliest) and for the time being that doesn't bother me the slightest as my HD7 runs smooth as anything with what it's got. I doubt a dual-core processor would increase the usuability of any of the WP7 Phones, the only thing it would do is reduce loading times of App's/Games/etc, which is currently only seconds anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True but what about Samsungs Orion then?
The other reason why im waiting for a New wp7 device is the lack of exchangeable storage on all devices...

my only concern is about the compatibility of the Phones with LTE technology as Verizon's LTE network will be up in my area by the end of the year.

i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch

CE7 supports multi-core ARM CPUs. There are plans to move WP7 to CE7 (it's currently on a CE6/7 variant) later on. That should happen before dual core chips are a reality so there's no reason Microsoft won't move to it. I would guess that would come with a major software and hardware spec update, maybe WP8. There's no point in tossing the current WP7 on much more powerful hardware because the software won't take advantage of it. Games and apps will still be targeted at the 1ghz SnapDragon so basically things will just load faster.
People really need to get out of this hardware spec mentality. It doesn't matter if the phone had a 100mhz CPU if it performs well. I know that's hard if you're a techy but you have to focus on the end result, not the pieces that make it happen.
hkcyber said:
i'm waiting 1G ram with using nvidia Tegra 2 cpu + 5-7 point mutil touch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this for real? Why would you need 5-7 touch points? Can you even fit 7 fingers on a 4in screen?

I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.

Sir. Haxalot said:
I sure as hell hope that Microsoft won't allow this on Pad devices.
Sure the idea with Pad devices might be good, but not with an OS built for a 4" display.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, if MS comes out with a pad, I hope they alter the OS or make a new one optimized for a pad sized screen.

It's not the size of the hardware, it's how you use it.

I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.

My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.

No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.

yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.

z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.

orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.

orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.

WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.

ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?

^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.

Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.

I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.

Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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Click to collapse
I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.

Your Opinions About The Galaxy Nexus and Ice Cream Sandwich

The question is pretty simple: What you guys think about the latest Google dessert?
Here is part of the Dream in Tech team's opinion: http://www.dreamintech.net/2011/10/opinion-corner-android-4-0-ice-cream-sandwich/
The blog is still in the beginning, but we are working hard to make it great.

Well, to put it simply.
ICS > iOS5 and Galaxy Nexus > iPhone 4s
At least the Android flagship device actually has new features... *whip_sound.mp3*

Gavisann said:
Well, to put it simply.
ICS > iOS5 and Galaxy Nexus > iPhone 4s
At least the Android flagship device actually has new features... *whip_sound.mp3*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^ Says the only guy on the staff that has not started to write his opinion in the post

I'm very impressed by the device.
But analizing that I don't think I'd be so keen to buy it if it wasn't for ICS, In much the same way that iOS5 makes the iPhone4S.
That said, I'm loving the curve of the device, I always found the one on the Nexus S to be too deep, but the Galaxy Nexus seems to look perfect with it.
I know it's not Sammy's way, but some aluminium would have been nice, I guess thats just a personal preference. Lets wait and see how good this Hyper-skin is
Lack of a beatiful UI and clean uniform patterns has always been a gripe of mine in Android and I'm very excited to see everything coming together for the first time.

the inline spellchecker, keyboard, new notifications, swipebetweens are what I liked from 4.0, but the phone itself is meh =\ No SD card slot, 5Mpx, expensive carrier, meh chipset, and no hardware navigation buttons are enough to turn me off. I can't believe how good the phone is despite the fact that that it falls short in key areas =[

xxhorseriderxxx said:
no hardware navigation buttons are enough to turn me off.
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Why is this?
I'm liking how they're virtual.
Slightly disappointing that they're there at all, have you used a Blackberry play book or MacOS Lion, the gestures on both of these are fantastic and I'd hope that android would more to something similar in the future

From what I've seen, the package certainly looks very impressive. The screen looks amazing...super AMOLED is already awesome but now in HD! Wow.
The dual core 1.2 ghz CPU is standard...the fact that its a Texas Instruments rather than Exynos is not a biggie for me. They are both comparable...its all about software optimizations in the end.
5MP camera is good enough...more megapixels does not necessarily mean much after 5. Ram is standard 1 gigabyte which is very good.
Now onto ICS. Very impressed from what I've seen again. It looks a lot like honeycomb for tablets which is good. It looks quite smooth and fast.
I've read somewhere that GPU acceleration has been confirmed to have been implemented but I'm not sure. I've not read any official confirmation of that. Perhaps someone can clear it up for me here. If it has then great. It was my number one priority for ICS.
Overall, there seems to be a lot of new features in ICS but only hands on time will tell. It certainly looks great. Smooth and very Fast!
The hardware of the galaxy nexus is awesome i think. 32 gigabyte storage is also important. I do wish however that they had included an SD card slot. But I'm sure 32 should be enough for most.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

I would love ICS.
I do not want the GN.

GalaxyNexus is a meh! spec compared to S2.
SG3 will be announced 2012 January.
Rumor says it will have quad core.
If so, then I think I'll bypass GalaxyNexus and wait for S3.

zeitgeb3r said:
GalaxyNexus is a meh! spec compared to S2.
SG3 will be announced 2012 January.
Rumor says it will have quad core.
If so, then I think I'll bypass GalaxyNexus and wait for S3.
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Click to collapse
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
I'm not having a go...i mean really, what would one do with a quad core phone that one couldn't do with a dual core. Software optimization is the key now i think.
Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
There comes a point where the specs cannot really add much more to the overall experience anymore. I think we are getting to that point now. The software is gonna be the most important aspect from now on i think. We finally have incredible powerful hardware, but there are still lags and slowdowns etc.
These wont change with quad cores or double tripple quad dual cores or whatever. What is needed is software optimizations. Optimizations that fully take advantage of the available hardware. Only this will fix our lags and slowdowns and enhance our usage of mobile computing.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App

voyager_s said:
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
I'm not having a go...i mean really, what would one do with a quad core phone that one couldn't do with a dual core. Software optimization is the key now i think.
Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
There comes a point where the specs cannot really add much more to the overall experience anymore. I think we are getting to that point now. The software is gonna be the most important aspect from now on i think. We finally have incredible powerful hardware, but there are still lags and slowdowns etc.
These wont change with quad cores or double tripple quad dual cores or whatever. What is needed is software optimizations. Optimizations that fully take advantage of the available hardware. Only this will fix our lags and slowdowns and enhance our usage of mobile computing.
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA App
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Software optimizations, and for battery technology to finally catch up with transistors...

i'm not a gamer, the specs are secondary to the handset itself for me. i'm still gaga over my nexus s and it's "pedestrian specs".
eric b

I will have to hold and play with the the device to get a feel for the size. Coming from a Nexus One the Galaxy Nexus seems huge. Right now this is my main worry.
I don't care about Mega-pixels. The performance of the camera, lens, and image processing software is far more important. I want clear pictures, good indoor/low light, minimal shutter lag on start-up and between shots, and a flash that actually works well with the camera (i.e. intelligently controls output based on the shot details). It's hard to grade the device yet on these items.
If Google finally put deep rooted GPU acceleration into the OS and made it so that developers don't have to jump through hoops to use it then that will be an awesome change. The iPhones have often had lower spec hardware but buttery smooth performance due to software optimization and solid use of the GPU. I really hope this is real for Android.
I've posted elsewhere but I think lack of an SD card is a conscious choice because I don't think Google has worked out the kinks with SD cards post-Gingerbread. SD card support still isn't that great in HoneyComb. This could be a win for the user experience and since I can live with 32GB I'm not marking it down for this item.
I liked the improvements in Ice Cream Sandwich, especially the attempts at making the interface more consistent. Having home screens navigate left-right but having the app drawer navigate up-down never made sense. These screens look too similar to work differently. Putting widgets in a tab in the app drawer and making their addition to home screens consistent with apps also makes sense.
No hardware buttons is nice. I have a Honeycomb tablet and having the buttons move with the screen when going from portrait to landscape is nice and again adds consistency to the user experience. Once you get used to it having buttons fixed in portrait orientation like on current phones seems awkward. Also having the buttons change with the context of the application is a nice feature.
Anyone hear of any improvements in VPN support, specifically Cisco AnyConnect. So far it has only been available for certain phones due to tunnel driver issues. It would be a nice addition to the Galaxy Nexus since the HD display would make Citrix Receiver or other business apps easier to use on a phone.

voyager_s said:
Honestly i dont understand the craziness about quad cores. Aside from 1gig of ram and standard 1ghz dual chip i could care less about quad cores in phones.
.
.
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Aside from high Res graphics for certain games i do not see the fascination with quad cores and dual gpus etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." - Thomas Watson, IBM, 1943.
"There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home." - Ken Olson, DEC, 1977.
"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

FYI. ICS does have hardware acceleration added. See android.com for ICS features.
OpenGL ES texture views
A new TextureView object lets developers directly integrate OpenGL ES textures as rendering targets in a UI hierarchy. The object lets developers display and manipulate OpenGL ES rendering just as they would a normal view object in the hierarchy, including moving, transforming, and animating the view as needed. The TextureView object makes it easy for developers to embed camera preview, decoded video, OpenGL game scenes, and more. TextureView can be viewed as a more powerful version of the existing SurfaceView object, since it offers the same benefits of access to a GL rendering surface, with the added advantage of having that surface participate fully in the normal view hierarchy.
Hardware-accelerated 2D drawing
All Android-powered devices running Android 4.0 are required to support hardware-accelerated 2D drawing. Developers can take advantage of this to add great UI effects while maintaining optimal performance on high-resolution screens, even on phones. For example, developers can rely on accelerated scaling, rotation, and other 2D operations, as well as accelerated UI components such as TextureView and compositing modes such as filtering, blending, and opacity.
Click to expand...
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In terms of performance... a OMAP Dual-Core 1.2 GHz should a ****ing BEAST. So... quite enough. I was hoping for 1.5 GHz, though.
In terms of design... I need to look at the model later when it gets released... the color and the dock dots seem a bit off.
The buttons... I hope that CM or other teams are able to make ICS render other buttons (like a 4th search button, or at least change the icons, they look too honeycomb-ish).
ICS looks great. That message response to call thingie sounds like a great feature.
NFC sounds like a neat feature too because you won't have to go around menus to send someone something... as long as they have a NFC device too. With ICS. The new wallpapers look great too, I guess. Not to speak about Hardware Acceleration!!!
Overall, I still gotta wait. I'm also going to wait for the usual price cuts that happen after 4~5 months of release to get it, if I am going to get it. Or I might wait for the next Nexus... hopefully Motorola isn't going to **** it up.

I was no timpressed with the screen on the TMo SGS2 to start with so I just pre ordered the Prime...
As far as number of cores go, I woulkd rather see mor edevelopment in battery technology.
Let's face it, battery life sucks in anything I can think about.