Related
After contacting HTC regarding FroYo, I was told that the decision whether or not to offer it for devices is based on how they are weighing up the impacts on user experience.
As far as I am aware, FroYo will offer extreme performance improvements over previous builds, and I fail to see how it could negatively impact this.
As for Desire and FroYo, they did of course totally avoid the question and gave no specific response relating to the Desire in any way, nor did they confirm that they will offer it for any devices at all, merely that it is being
"considered" for "some devices" according to the impact "user experience".
As the title suggests, this is not about "if" or "when" but about what exactly they think could be affected in terms of "user experience".
'Introducing the new HTC User Exprience: Sense'
DarkMio said:
'Introducing the new HTC User Exprience: Sense'
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Click to collapse
I don't htink they were directly to sense. The rep I spoke to mentoned sense, but mentioned this in a different context. I think maybe they may have meant performance wise, once they integrate sense, will the phones really be able to handle FroYo.
alias_neo said:
I don't htink they were directly to sense. The rep I spoke to mentoned sense, but mentioned this in a different context. I think maybe they may have meant performance wise, once they integrate sense, will the phones really be able to handle FroYo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously, Froyo would even run faster on a G1, because Froyo is just faster.
I think this means they'll thjnkk about upgrading for 6 months - then announce a delay.
I really shouldn't try to read too much into anything that HTC say about this.
Google's own devs have already gone on record to say that it is technically possible for a G1 to run Froyo (see here), but you can be almost 100% certain that there will never be an "official" port.
By being deliberately noncommittal, HTC can avoid accusations of reneging on promises, because they've thus far promised nothing.
Personally, I think it is reasonably certain that we will see Froyo on the Desire and the Legend in the relatively near future (I'm thinking end of August time frame).
I seriously doubt that any of their earlier phones will get an official update to Froyo, and that includes the Hero even though it is very similar hardware wise to the Legend.
Regards,
Dave
I think that HTC cannot loose their chance against Apple.
They cannot screw things up - Evo 4G flagship at Sprint probably will be the first with Froyo - otherwise people start buying iPhone 4G (seems Sprint is going to sell iPhone as well).
HTC Poland recently put their account on the facebook - they didn't expected that users will be with so negative feedback about their support and speed of software releases. I am not sure if such activities HTC did in other places, but phone market now is growing rapidly and if their dont release updates soon enough people like me will get Apple again
masi0 said:
I think that HTC cannot loose their chance against Apple.
They cannot screw things up - Evo 4G flagship at Sprint probably will be the first with Froyo - otherwise people start buying iPhone 4G (seems Sprint is going to sell iPhone as well).
HTC Poland recently put their account on the facebook - they didn't expected that users will be with so negative feedback about their support and speed of software releases. I am not sure if such activities HTC did in other places, but phone market now is growing rapidly and if their dont release updates soon enough people like me will get Apple again
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Click to collapse
Well, the lady I spoke to said they have "learned" a lot from the updates they have released recently and will carry this forward when releasing future updates. As for apple, nothing, and I mean nothing, on this earth would make me go back to apple.
why is this in the development section? You have three other areas to post this in besides development!
1wayjonny said:
why is this in the development section? You have three other areas to post this in besides development!
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Click to collapse
My bad, as I'm always developing or looking at development my bookmarks take me straight to dev section, I had entirely forgotten about the others.
MODS: Any change you could move this to general please?
I think you will almost certainly find that the "4G" in the iPhone 4G refers to the fact that it is the 4th iteration of the iPhone - not that it works on a 4G network.
Regards,
Dave
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Sent from my secret underground base, buried deep under a glacier in Iceland (the shop, not the country)
Dont apologise mate i thought your thread was interesting and informative
Dont appease these random trolls that think they moderate these forums! Let the mods do the moderating and we will do the grazing hahaha
The guy was a twat, he came on the thread where we are trying to port Froyo and said the same thing that this isnt a dev topic I mean it that isnt dev, then i will give up computers
Total waste of space!!!
JD
foxmeister said:
I think you will almost certainly find that the "4G" in the iPhone 4G refers to the fact that it is the 4th iteration of the iPhone - not that it works on a 4G network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You reckon?
Was there any evidence for this in the various tear downs that have popped up over the last month or so?
Suppose it would make sense from a business point of view. The world (and Europe in particular) isn't exactly overflowing with 4G networks right now.
While i dont always agree with what HTC say on this issue they do have a point with Froyo. If they launched an update tomorrow all hell would break loose. Half the apps in the market dont work with froyo right now, and people would happily swap out their SD card without realising it might mean they loose some apps that have moved.
The Nexus one is not the same beast, it is sold as a test bed in effect and users should expect issues, the Desire is a consumer device for the masses. HTC NEED to wait until the early issues are fixed otherwise they would be overwhelmed with support calls.
rovex said:
While i dont always agree with what HTC say on this issue they do have a point with Froyo. If they launched an update tomorrow all hell would break loose. Half the apps in the market dont work with froyo right now, and people would happily swap out their SD card without realising it might mean they loose some apps that have moved.
The Nexus one is not the same beast, it is sold as a test bed in effect and users should expect issues, the Desire is a consumer device for the masses. HTC NEED to wait until the early issues are fixed otherwise they would be overwhelmed with support calls.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree in part, but I don't think Google are trying to market the Nexus as a dev phone. I know it is, but unlike the G1 they want it to be a competing consumer device.
I see what you mean now about the FroYo problems, but, not everybody frequent these forums as we do, the solution woul dbe a simple instruction list with the update, saying moving apps to your SD card would of course mean they're not available if you remove it. And I thought apps were restricted in visibility to OS version? I know my hero couldn't see half the new stuff when it was on 1.5.
Still, you make a valid point, just as a Computer Scientist and Electronic Engineer, I refuse to accept these as valid excuses on HTCs part.
I'v seen smaller teams do harder work with better results, in less time using fewer resources.
seriously ... sense isnt that good why cant htc jsut put there apps on the market .... and give ppl stock 2.2 and the choice
Not a very well worded post, but I kinda agree. I'd like the option of not having some of the apps. Things like Friendstream and Peep just aren't as good as the alternatives out there.
It'd be great if the Sense UI and apps were installed, but they sold the apps on the Market (obviously providing them free of charge with phones), and allowed the option of uninstalling them.
Sure everyone has choice, if you don't like the sense UI, you can choose nexus one, or MOTO, or Samsung, or LG, or whatever... what I don't understand is why people buy HTC phones, if they don't like sense UI in the first place. I don't think HTC can force you to do so, hehe
-------------------------------------
Sent by winx199 via his HTC Desire
I had the option of getting a Nexus or Desire, and opted for the Desire mainly because it meant paying less per month. Since I'm a student until the Summer, and don't have a job to go into yet, this was a big factor.
I was also (wrongly) under the impression that you could switch Sense off if needed, as was shown on pre-release models.
You can easily disable the sense home. I currently run both helix launcher and sense and can choose which when I press home or set a default. As for sense/no sense, I think for me, it makes my Android phones. Couldn't live without it, even with the great launchers out there.
-------------------------------------
Alias::NeO on HTC Desire
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/09/htc-suffers-crash-quarterly-profits
Words of wisdom from their CEO.
HTC will only comment when its audited results are published, but an email sent by the chief executive, Peter Chou, to employees in August urged staff to "kill bureaucracy". He complained: "We have people in meetings and talking all the time but without decision, strategic direction and sense of urgency."
obsydian said:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/oct/09/htc-suffers-crash-quarterly-profits
Words of wisdom from their CEO.
HTC will only comment when its audited results are published, but an email sent by the chief executive, Peter Chou, to employees in August urged staff to "kill bureaucracy". He complained: "We have people in meetings and talking all the time but without decision, strategic direction and sense of urgency."
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Click to collapse
most company's are struggling in this present worldwide climate of recession and slow growth forcasts so its no major suprise really.
as with apple they want to take over the world there latest ios 6 and apple iphone 5 to be frank are crap.
I guess my slant was just taking Jellybean and all prior updates coupled with the bureaucracy comment from their CEO, maybe explains (as well as HTC Sense being more involved) why these guys are so s-l-o-w.
I think a 79% crash is far worse than the general industry.
Problem with HTC is the fact that they release too many low-cost handsets which don't sell very well and so they lose money quickly. I can't believe that they can't see this.
Also, another thing that's bad with HTC is the support for handsets. I bought Sensation XL back in June, sold it this week because tthey didn't confirm JB for it. I mean, it has been released in December 2011, not even a year of support for £400 handset?
H-Streety said:
Problem with HTC is the fact that they release too many low-cost handsets which don't sell very well and so they lose money quickly. I can't believe that they can't see this.
Also, another thing that's bad with HTC is the support for handsets. I bought Sensation XL back in June, sold it this week because tthey didn't confirm JB for it. I mean, it has been released in December 2011, not even a year of support for £400 handset?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's not enough money in the high end handsets, they need massively high volumes of low to mid tier handsets. Unfortunately that's devalued their brand and image too.
When they first started to shine... with the HTC Diamond (yes, they made plenty of devices beforehand, but that was the first consumer 'wow' phone). they were innovative. Sadly for 6 years they failed to capitalise on that, and massively let down their consumers with the 'Sense' hub that was cancelled (even thought they sold phones based on that feature).
Their industrial design was really nice with the Diamond too... a great balance of sophisticated and sexy (with their glowing circle etc).
They need to get back to basics... 1 Low, 1 Mid, 1 High tier - 3 devices. Forget the many variants.
It can't 'match' the competition, it has to better them by some margin.
It needs to ditch Sense, OR introduce a brand new Sense that puts 'sexy' back into the UI.
When was the last time a HTC owner truly wanted to show off their phone to friends, knowing they'd be impressed? They've lost the WOW.
But one bright thing in their favour. Samsung, Sony and Apple haven't managed to achieve 'WOW' yet. Great devices, yes, but not 'WOW'
They are still profitible and have plenty of cash in the bank so it's not as if their teetering on the edge. But investors and analysts are getting tired of each quarter seeming to accelerate their downward slide. With the One X+, XV, and 8X on AT&T and the illusive DLX on VZW they have a chance to really move some volume in the 4th quarter because of the size of those two carriers. If with all those major devices launching they don't see some improvement I expect them to be a merger or acquisition candidate early next year. Things can't continue as they are.
It is the trend that is worrying. Like it or not Samsung has the Android mindshare. HTC have themselves to blame may it be business decisions or management issues. HTC was Android's top manufacturer in the early days.
When people think Android, they think Samsung now. It could be better publicity, marketing, global image, or even court battles, etc.
thank u`
I will pick up HTC, not samsumg, i dont like to spend my money in cheap plastic, low benchmarks phones like sg3
I dont care numbers, marketing or selling, we know that not the all the world is smart, and that the marketing afects woman and child, thats what samsung is doing. Done.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
Htc is a billion dollar company making pinuts , I don't agree it's still profitable,when you deal with share holders. Loans ,there would be nothing left from the 100 Millions they made , HTC is like a million dollar company making 100 dollars and yet we're calling it profitable ,next 80% drop there wouldn't be anything to be profitable about
The problem is that htc dont feed me, dont give money, so... What s the point to talk about if htc make money or not, at least u r a sammy boy, really have no sense to talk about others money, just talk about how wonderful will be the best phone in earth with official jelly bean. I was right, next year sammy galaxy will be competing with LG. I told U. But well... Dont give up sammy, keep selling cheap, ugly designed phone with low bench, i forgot, sg boots in 10 secs, who cares.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
deleted
Maybe the $2k from S-Off bounty thread could help them out a little lol
why is this thread being bumped
they still make profits, better than tons of other mega companies
grow up!
atrako1973 said:
HTC is like a million dollar company making 100 dollars and yet we're calling it profitable
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Being profitible isn't open to debate; it's black and white. If after paying all their bills and servicing any debt they have a $100 left they're profitible. That also means their cash flow positive (not drawing on reserves to cover expenses). That's obviously not a great position for a multi-billion dollar global company but as Mark Twain said - "rumors of my death have been greatly exaggerated."
Not suprised, it'll be all the bloody HOX's they've had to replace.
LAWL
tbh im not that suprised, i had enough of the htc one x, not lasting the day - unable to change the battery and having to carry around a seperate charger that i kept forgetting to charge,
Ive owned htc devices since xda days and they have always been to me the best phones around imho, hackabilty without losing warrenty was also a big bonus which always extended the life of the handset.
the one x is the the first htc phone ive owned ive not hacked, after having a dhd fail after 1.5 years i was worried about losing the warrenty.
I think thats where htc are going wrong, samsung have an excellent range of hackable devices (ok touch wiz is crap and superamoled is still infantacy) but the phones have some really cool features that would make the one x and the rest of the line shine - removable battery being foremost in my mind. Being able to change leds, fonts asigning keys all without having too root is what is making the difference between the two manufactors to the end users like us.
Sense is nice and polished but has become stale over time and locked down, getting a new phone with htc isnt the wow factor any more, htc need to bring that back - having to wait for months unless you voided your warrenty to remove the 3 dot menu button made the phone a joke.
i personally wish htc all the best for the future and hope they sort themselves out on future products - getting a nexus line would be a cool advancement, but i think they willl carry on making the same mistakes year in year out.
they need to be reminded they are not apple and cannot lock the devices down to a android community, thats whats coming back to bite them at this time.
Wooow, again our hox forum full of trolling samy boys, so Hox keeps on the top.
Why hox owners dont go to sg3 forums? Cause there is no need.
Why samy boys come here?
I will told u why, cause hox is the best phone in earth, not matter what u wanna troll.
I love my gaming hox. Tegra games, sony psmobile games, well... You know, its not samsung, it s HTC. :thumbup:
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
Don't be so small minded, I'm not trolling but stating why I think HTC is having issues after OWNING THE HOX for quiet some time, so any word said against HTC is trolling, good luck with that.
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Yeah, funny.
Hox is the best phone in earth and everytime we, hox users, are waiting for updates or good news, well, post like this suddenly appears. Nothing new under the sun.
SkyDragon Sense Rom V1
Hey guys,
just some thoughts on our beloved device.
Seems this christmas a lot of users are just switching to a newer device. It is a subjecive observation for sure, but as I started following the forums this summer (meaning 2012) and finally gathered enough "self-esteem" to "hack" my defy+ and flash a non-official software I noticed it is getting really silent on the forums right now. There are a lot of good reasons for that. Could be that this device just isn't able to catch up with all the official updates. I mean, everything after 2.3.6 was only possible through the help of voluntary developers. It is a miracle to have the latest versions of Android on this phone. And if you think about it (not aiming to reduse the effort of the community) it was mainly because of the leading (and voluntary) example of Quarx.
It is just how it goes. Now, a lot of users, being driven by their inhabited impulse of jelaousy just switch to a younger device. The media promotes it. The companies pay for it. My question is: why? I bought this device (defy+) in winter 2011 (one year ago). And advertising tells me it is time to get a new one? Are you nuts? I like things that pay out. This must be a joke. It is already a "outdated device"? Only because Motorola itself doesn't want to give an update? I am convinced, that if we the users don't change our attitude, then companies can play with us as if we were puppets until we die. But is the technique really outdated? Why do we need an upgrade? To get faster downloads at the bus stop? To get a faster connection at work (although there are already to pcs, that we could use). What are we practically using these new devices for? Is there such a big need to pay for these upgrades that advertising suggests if we don't really have a use for them?
The main thing, they are usefull for is communication. And do we really need the newest hardware for that? The defy is very capable of dealing with our needs! And for the software there might be an even better choice than sticking to Google's.
With seeing that developement of alternative software for the defy is diminishing, I would like to point to the developers that spend so much effort on this device to just take a break and then go into the developement of the Firefox OS with at least the same or even bigger ambition that you have put to Google's crap (Google still crap btw, we do not really know and can't really expect what they are working for to achieve but humanitarian goals aren't it).
Thanks for your contribution, I owe you a lot.
4cidj4y said:
Google still crap btw, we do not really know and can't really expect what they are working for to achieve but humanitarian goals aren't it
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Click to collapse
Oh, man, how much do I agree on this! Very much!
Anyhows... I do agree with you, brother and I both bought DEFY's last winter and I don't see an ACTUAL reason to replace it... Yes, I would love a bigger screen, better camera, faster CPU, more RAM... But the truth is I don't need any of those, as the DEFY does everything I need. Texting, surfing, gaming, multimedia... I'm not going to change it soon. And I do hope developers will stick with it for a little while longer
Cheers, buddy!
Let's get this out of the way first, nobody here is stupid, we know the L Release is never going to come to the Galaxy Nexus officially. So let's talk about the community. I just have one basic question for our talented devs, what are the odds that a port of L will be able to come to the Gnex and if so, what kind of time frame are we looking at here?
Does the Cyanogenmod team do developers previews like this one? We might see it from them.
I'm sorry, but this post is exactly what I expected to see today.
so lets get it out of the way.
SURE
we COULD see some 5.0 aosp love(via custom development)
MAYBE.
time frame?
when.source drops, give it a few months at most I'd say
source isn't even CLOSE to ready yet though.
SOOO
let's ALSO look at the past.
which nexus devices, after Google officially dropped support, are STILL ABLE AND ARE running LATEST android version?
ALL of them right?
stability and such isn't a factor for this question, it's IF IT CAN/DOES run newest aosp in SOME FORM.
so I'd say YES gnex WILL see 5.0 in SOME usable form. but asking for ANY "time frame"at THIS POINT since SOURCE ISN'T AVAILABLE YET is kinda pointless.
maybe though, just maybe, there are ALREADY some people at work on getting those "preview" things ported. no matter WHAT, patience and not asking for timeframe/eta is key here
I don't normally do +1 style posts, but I am also greatly interested in knowing this as well.
I imagine it is largely going to depend on how much of the underlying kernel and driver interaction changes. I remember on my prior phone, a Droid X which has been and is still locked down, it was generally impossible to get past ICS because of the major underlying changes in JB and not being able to get those on the DX. Granted the Nexus doesn't have this limitation but drivers aren't likely to be further updated and if the kernel goes too far forward it is unlikely to see compatible driver versions for GNex hardware.
EDIT: I should probably say modules instead of drivers. I'm primarily a Windows person PC-side.
Put it this way my 4 year old HTC Desire can run Kitkat then i would be amazed if we didn't end up with some pretty good builds of "L".
ashclepdia said:
I'm sorry, but this post is exactly what I expected to see today.
so lets get it out of the way.
SURE
we COULD see some 5.0 aosp love(via custom development)
MAYBE.
time frame?
when.source drops, give it a few months at most I'd say
source isn't even CLOSE to ready yet though.
SOOO
let's ALSO look at the past.
which nexus devices, after Google officially dropped support, are STILL ABLE AND ARE running LATEST android version?
ALL of them right?
stability and such isn't a factor for this question, it's IF IT CAN/DOES run newest aosp in SOME FORM.
so I'd say YES gnex WILL see 5.0 in SOME usable form. but asking for ANY "time frame"at THIS POINT since SOURCE ISN'T AVAILABLE YET is kinda pointless.
maybe though, just maybe, there are ALREADY some people at work on getting those "preview" things ported. no matter WHAT, patience and not asking for timeframe/eta is key here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for replying! I figured since I looked pretty thoroughly and didn't see a thread for it and thought that having at least one place for Gnex owners to talk about the L release for us wouldn't be a bad thing. I in no way meant to be one of those people who constantly bugs the devs about ETA's, I just meant what were could be expecting in the general sense. Thanks for the reassurance about us getting it, I've just been burned before about support with previous devices when they got past official support. But those weren't Nexii so I didn't know what to expect.
Brettbesa said:
Thanks for replying! I figured since I looked pretty thoroughly and didn't see a thread for it and thought that having at least one place for Gnex owners to talk about the L release for us wouldn't be a bad thing. I in no way meant to be one of those people who constantly bugs the devs about ETA's, I just meant what were could be expecting in the general sense. Thanks for the reassurance about us getting it, I've just been burned before about support with previous devices when they got past official support. But those weren't Nexii so I didn't know what to expect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yea sorry about my tone in that reply mostly too
I'm usually not the one to fly off ranting towards other users actions, at least not on xda(i do #AshRants elsewhere lol)
your question was a valid one, and I know where you coming from when it comes to nom nexus devices and their lack of support, I had a droid x2 that was ORIGINALLY SCHEDULED BY MOTOROLA to have ICS update. which for some reason they just didn't follow through on. Their REASON they said was that "android 4.0+ would not improve functionality of this device"...aka "we don't feel like fixing all the bugs we gave you already with shotty gingerbread releases, and we aren't going to allow you to unlock the device or give you usable kernel source so screw off",...back when moto didn't gaf about the dev communities. they have made huge strides towards mending that relationship. just couldn't believe they had the gall to say 4.0 wouldn't improve the first dual core android device running a tegra2 chipset. bah. ramblings now again from ash.
but yea reason I kinda went off in that reply was mostly cuz I hoped all the other people who were already drooling at the chance to post the exact same things would slow down and think instead first it wasnt intended as a personal attack towards you or to start any flamewar on the subject. and judging by your reply you didn't take offense to it anyways, so :thumbsup: :good: we all on the same page anyways.
personally, I haven't seen much of the IO stuff about L, I saw mostly design changes, and would like to know more details about it's new features so I'll be digging around YouTube today for recaps and such.
but I'm almost certain that if we don't get some kinda official rom like CM, OMNI, SHINY, PA, etc... building L based.roms for us, then some of our awesomely talented devs will at LEAST get us able to look like we have it, along with SOME if not z MOST functionality of L.
ashclepdia said:
I'm sorry, but this post is exactly what I expected to see today.
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Click to collapse
I also think you guys should be patient. Your life won't be (that limited if there won't be a port of the coming up Android L to our Galaxy Nexus. Just relax.
As some have already pointed out, we're unlikely to see Android 5 "officially" ported to our GNex, for pretty much the same reason that we don't have an official 4.4 release for our phone. From ArsTechnica:
"Our talk with Burke shed some light on some more obscure topics too, including the lack of an Android 4.4 update for the Galaxy Nexus. Google's official line was that the company only supports hardware for 18 months after release, which it still mentions in its official Nexus update support document. As was speculated at the time, though, the decision was tied to Texas Instruments' exit from the consumer SoC market (TI's OMAP chip powered the Galaxy Nexus as well as other prominent Android-based hardware like the first Kindle Fires).
"It was a really extraordinary event," he said. "You had a silicon company exit the market, there was nobody left in the building to talk to."
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Click to collapse
TI stopped development for the GNex SoC at Android 4.1. Google and others worked hard to support it for 4.2 and 4.3, but the official TI software was broken by 4.4. The reason that we even have 4.4 custom ROMs is because some kind-hearted person, perhaps a TI insider, released beta or engineering sample software for the SoC. But as we've found, it's not the most stable
have a great weekend,
john
You could all complain about TI stopping development and blaming them. The Google Glass uses a not to different TI SOC compared to the GNex has a 3.4 kernel and runs 4.4.2
Now please understand that Google simply ditched us for reasons other than TI stopped developing SOC bla bla bla.
akash3656 said:
You could all complain about TI stopping development and blaming them. The Google Glass uses a not to different TI SOC compared to the GNex has a 3.4 kernel and runs 4.4.2
Now please understand that Google simply ditched us for reasons other than TI stopped developing SOC bla bla bla.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Plus if they didn't drop support after two years android would have alot more bugs in general.
DR3W5K1 said:
Plus if they didn't drop support after two years android would have alot more bugs in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't get your logic. And its not like 4.3 is flawless. HD video playback on this device (GNex) lags.
+ if Google themselves show a bad example to OEMs on how long to update devices, expect OEMs to not update devices older than a year. And this makes the whole "android doesn't get timely updates" into a new issue where "android doesn't get updates after a year+ at best".
GNex will never die!
(3.5 yrs going strong bby, and thanks to vanir+dirtyv f2fs running better than ever)
latenightchameleon said:
GNex will never die!
(3.5 yrs going strong bby, and thanks to vanir+dirtyv f2fs running better than ever)
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Click to collapse
Indeed. There will likely be somebody out there building from the latest source for this device as long as it's possible to do so, and possibly even if it isn't.
akash3656 said:
Now please understand that Google simply ditched us for reasons other than TI stopped developing SOC
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Click to collapse
Out of curiosity, what would those reasons be?
jsage said:
Out of curiosity, what would those reasons be?
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Click to collapse
That's up for you to imagine....
Money, profit, greed? You pick which one. Or make your own reasons.
akash3656 said:
That's up for you to imagine....
Money, profit, greed? You pick which one. Or make your own reasons.
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Well, I guess when simple facts aren't sufficient then fantasy must be more believable.
wow
some of these replies were brutal, sheesh
gray bishop said:
some of these replies were brutal, sheesh
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Click to collapse
Honest perhaps. It's pretty simple really. The new OS (4.4) has a new kernel. The new kernel requires new drivers. Neither TI (OMAP SoC) nor ImgTec (PowerVR GPU) will supply those drivers.
Yes, an engineer at TI "released" a blob last fall. But it was not release-quality, it was beta-quality. Not everything is a conspiracy; we've just reached the end of the official support road.
On the other hand if one is inclined to run on the bleeding edge and stability is not their primary concern, there are any number of KitKat custom ROMs in which one can indulge.
have a great evening,
john
jsage said:
Honest perhaps. It's pretty simple really. The new OS (4.4) has a new kernel. The new kernel requires new drivers. Neither TI (OMAP SoC) nor ImgTec (PowerVR GPU) will supply those drivers.
Yes, an engineer at TI "released" a blob last fall. But it was not release-quality, it was beta-quality. Not everything is a conspiracy; we've just reached the end of the official support road.
On the other hand if one is inclined to run on the bleeding edge and stability is not their primary concern, there are any number of KitKat custom ROMs in which one can indulge.
have a great evening,
john
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Ah crap I didn't mean to thank you. Anyway, yea sure remember all those OEMs you blame and all have given everything you've said to a certain product. GOOGLE GLASS. And go and check what SOC Google Glass uses.
Now have fun.
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
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I think your statement of "I haven't really felt the need to use a custom Rom..." is very telling. We also get monthly updates without jumping through hoops and we have feature sets we all like. Also Google Pay is being used more and more and you need to unlock the bootloader which breaks GP. I mean you can do kernel mods to enable it but it's just not worth it. What would you like that you don't currently have? I can name a few things like modifying location of the clock, changing vibration, things like that. But is it worth not having security updates or hoping the rom dev will update the rom? And then asking for an ETA and getting hammered by users for asking. It's just not worth it and devs have moved on to other money making ventures. Begging for donations doesn't pay the rent.
Bottom line, it's not worth it for rom devs and thus we have just a few. Flashing is not as easy as it used to be with dual slots. I remember just flashing each file and vendor and done. Bootloop, no prob just reflash the image. Not anymore. Now it's "omg your rom bricked my phone". Last thing.. we all have things to do now whereas we were young and stupid years back. Just give me a nice display, good battery, some options, and I'm good. Just some random thoughs.. agree or disagree but simply observations on my part.
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of.
I'm guessing we'll see more builds sooner rather than later since 10 just got officially released earlier in the month(plus TWRP isn't available for 10 yet - not that that would stop fastboot flashable ROMs from being built). Also the upcoming release of the pixel 4 should drop prices on the 3aXl which means more people will pick up this device and more ROMs will(most likely) be built. *That's my theory at least...I've seen other devices' development happen that way in the past so that's where I'm coming from.
I also think a combination of factors has slowed development in general across the board: less people buy new phones as often now(our phone is less than 6 months old), and stock android has gotten to the point that just rooting and minor tweaking is good enough for a lot of people. Not me personally - I always use custom ROMs - but for some others all they need is slightly tweaked stock, some theme-ing ability, and a few root apps like adaway or root browser to stay happy.
But anyway, big thanks to those who are building for our device. Y'all have skills that I do not have - which are much appreciated by me & many others.
And that was kind of what I thought... The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking. Thanks for confirming my suspicions.
Time will tell as this community moves into 10 development, but I'm guessing things will pick up a bit. Hang in there:good:
Bob nesta said:
There are ROMs not listed on xda available but you have to search them out. But even on that end it's in the range of 3-4 bonito ROMs that I can think of..
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For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
ctfrommn said:
For Android 10? Ive seen zero. 10 is very different than Pie and Bonito has a bunch of uniqueness as well. Building 10 for it is no small task and may take a while before you see 10 Roms for it. Even the handful of Rom devs (or teams) that have 10 builds dont have Bonito.
This is very similar to when Shamu came out. It took 2-3 months before custom Roms were working as there were so many changes from Hammerhead and Marshmallow was a very different build vs KitKat. There were also very unique challenges when Marlin came out for the same reasons. I hope to have Velocity up and running in the next few weeks but I wouldnt hold my breath on it as this has been one of the most challenging updates Ive come across and Ive been building Roms for Nexus/Pixel devices since JellyBean.
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Oh, not for 10. I was referring to pie. I'm pretty sure some of those pie ROMs slowed development down in anticipation for 10, so it's just a slow time right now.
It's cool... I understand a lot of work goes into building, so when/if they come - they come.
One question - does the a/b partitioning and lack of recovery partition make building harder or easier? (This is my first a/b device...just wondering.)
*And thanks for your hard work; I've been lurking on your kernel thread and see how much you've been refining it. Looking forward to your ROM whenever it drops. :good:
Never owned or dev'd for an a/b device except Marlin (Pixel 1) and that was pretty different from this I believe. Lack of recovery only affects how we flash it. The biggest issue right now is getting all the needed vendor/device stuff for it to boot and run right. No idea why this is never fully included with AOSP + posted binaries but it isnt.
The kernel (as always) is much simpler than a full Rom. Im still trying to get my head fully around the nuances for building a Rom for this. Rest assured they will come. Im definitely going to be spending more time on that side now.
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acejavelin said:
The custom ROM scene, particularly on Google devices is just shrinking.
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Most people that bought the Pixels had little need for a custom Rom. This will change I think with the lower cost of the "a" line. So many people jumped off the Google phone train when the Nexus died and the cost was simply higher than they/I/we wanted to spend for a phone. The "a" line is a lot of what the Nexus line was so I would guess this will bring many back, though OP has done a good job taking and keeping most of them.
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
The regular 3 has been out a lot longer and development is mature. I also cant say Im definitively right either of course and I 100% agree OP has taken most of the low budget enthusiasts over to their side, especially outside the US.
Either way, it makes no nevermind to me. I will always build for the device I own and choose the device I own very carefully. There will be at least Velocity for the 3a XL its just a matter of how long it takes to get it up and running.
And yes, the lack of activity in this forum is almost shocking to me but last I was here with any regularity was in the Nexus 4/Nexus 5 days which was the wild west of Android development.
Let's not forget to mention the constant free advertising xda does for oneplus as well; that definitely helps their cause.
*And I'll admit it - I fell for it myself: bought a oneplus 7 pro, found that I hate curved displays, and returned it the next day - but the hype on xda fooled me for sure. The 7t pro looks nice, but I'm good - I'm hanging in with my bonito and seeing where things go.
krabman said:
Not sure I would agree with that.
The elephant in the room is the activity across this entire forum section; there are few people here compared to another Pixel like the vanilla 3XL, massively less than you'll find over on the OnePlus sections. They're giving the A series credit for Goog seeing an 88% increase in Pixel sales this year but those sales do not appear to be to people like us that frequent this place, if they were, they would be here. I think at least for now this phone sold to ordinary folk, people who have never looked at their phones and wondered if they're truly bricked or just soft-bricked. Can't honestly say I know I'm right here but a look at the activity and available goodies over in OnePlus land is certainly compelling. Less money and bigger numbers along with an unlocked bootloader have attracted plenty of enthusiasts and along with them, development.
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Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
It doesn't surprise me because I, too, am finding myself comfortable with stock and avoiding all the inconveniences (mainly the merry-go-round of breaking things that check for root)... the only thing I really miss is being able to block ads and titanium backup. But it just isn't bothering me enough to care...
Golf c said:
Hahaha. "vanilla 3XL" far superior to any 3a. I will go with small a
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I owned the 3XL and didn't find it far superior. In fact I took it back and got a 6T while I waited for the next thing. Mainly it was the notch, and redraws in the GUI. In any event I only meant to refer to the regular 3XL or by extension any Pixel.
I guess if I paid @$300-400usd more for a device that has a smaller battery, with the same camera hardware(rear - don't care about the selfie cam), no headphone jack, and had a hideous notch so the OEM can claim "small bezels" - I may also be bitter & lurking in other devices' threads & talking smack(so I could feel better about my purchase...?)
Enjoy your 3xl and your notch... I guess. Congrats. :good:
Anytime you want to contribute to the 3axl community you are totally welcome to. No bitterness here. Otherwise...please go back to your "far superior" 3xl land please. We are not good enough for you here.
Take care.
*Bows down to the "far superior" 3xl owner*:angel:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
krabman said:
I'm not going to claim expertise when I say this but I can call out plenty of experience on XDA over the course of many phones: I would not expect this forum section to be getting more active in the future. I'm not saying a ROM wont come but there was never much activity here at any time, it is quite slow now, it continues to get slower. Everything I've seen over my time here tells me that trend will continue. I'm honestly surprised about that because I had thought when I purchased this phone that this section would be moderately active. I was wrong. I don't like saying that and wish it wasn't true but that's how I see it.
I'll be off toward 4XL land soon; I have all the coffee tables a man needs in one life and I like my toys.
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You mean bezzels right not coffee tables. Hahaha
acejavelin said:
Serious question, and not one to knock any developer or anyone else, and I am not complaining... But why don't we have more custom ROM's for this device?
I have owned lots of Nexus/Pixel devices in the past, and within a few months of release there were dozens of ROM's available for the device, but for this device there is a couple kernels and a few unofficial or "build it yourself" ROM's and that is it. It just seems very odd that a device so open by design and sold extremely well doesn't have more options. Why?
I admit I haven't had much involvement in the custom ROM community in a few years, and I haven't really felt a need to use a custom ROM in some time as I have been using Moto, Nokia, Nexus, and Pixel devices for the most part for years and just a few tweaks here and there are good enough, but I went to look into other possibilities with my Pixel 3a XL recently and found there just isn't much of anything.
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Well, I personally have stopped using custom ROMs after switching to a Pixel. Before this, I always was eager to install AOSP-based ROMs on my previous devices (Samsung and LG).
But especially LG is a disappointment software-wise: My LG G5 had a very good battery runtime with the initial ROM, but future updates killed this. Not to speak of non-existing updates and even security patches. My Samsungs were just awful from the start, they were immediately in dire need of AOSP.
On top, updating vendor images always was a PITA.. On my G5, I always had to do a clean flash, get rid of the bloat, flash the GApps etc.
But the Pixels are different. They also can have a bug here and there, but nothing severe. Battery runtime stays good with updates, and security patches always are on time. Updates are easy even when you are rooted.
Hence I just rooted my Pixel 3a XL and called it a day. Since Android 10 with its dark mode, I can even skip Substratum. YMMV of course, but this is how I see it.
I only root for system-wide adblock and HEBF Optimizer. Everything else is stock.
Custom Roms arent all (or even mostly) about features. There is so much more performance (and efficiency) to be had by building vs stock. Development will break loose soon enough. And when it does, then we will see what this device is truly capable of.