Develop Bugs

(Q)VBA Port for WM?

Hello
It would be difficult to do such a port? I
ask because the current gba emulators
are weak. I do not mean speed, because it is good,
but the functions that had the same as
vba on pc. What do you think?

What do i think...
Since HTC domination theres noone that can write ANY emulator(besides of fpsece and scummvm, but this is other story).
All about that.
(just voice of old PDA emu-fanatic)
time to move onto maemo, or Pandora...WM is unevitably dead soon.
sing with me, man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHFK1yKfiGo
hint: imagine iphone as "the Killer" here, and "blue bus" as wp7 and focking market. black background is made of HD2 users.

But would do something new.
Morphgear is slow and lacks pocketgba
few functions such as save the record.
Sv0, 1, etc., and that were generally
better. Vba are from the pc.

I say again: actually, there's NOONE that would make ANY emulator for WM.
Reasons:
- 100% of emus are quickly warez-ed(=no cash for maker),
- whole rest(of community) is busy with manila/sense skinning...
- it is rare thing to find skilled programmer/fanatic of emulators novadays.
And i am serious here.
btw, did you check pocketgba? Its FAR better for emulation than morphgear, unfortunately, it has problems with current shi..i mean devices.
Vba are from the pc.
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Please, i do know what vba is. it was even ported to gp2x years ago.
but
not
for
ppc's.
Seriously - i would like to see that post as stimulant for some skilled programmer, but i am CERTAIN this WON'T work.
Room's empty already.

[Q] Why is microsoft putting its software on iOS?

Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???

Because they're a software company?

davidebanks said:
Microsoft seem to be putting their software onto apples phone, http://wmpoweruser.com/how-to-alienate-your-customers-101/
whats next microsoft office on iOS if this continues then there will be on reason to get a wp7 device, after all, the iphone has a better gpu, far more memory (i live in the uk so 16gb is the max 8gb is the norm) so why would i want to buy a wp7 device again if MS starts doing this???
Click to expand...
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why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.

And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express

Geez. Why should you buy a WP7 rather than iPhone? Because the user experience between the two devices are completely different.
Obviously apps are going to be cross platform, Microsoft is after all a software company. Now, one could argue that they should perhaps do what Google does - and wait with releasing their apps on other platforms until they absolutely have to, but this is the iPhone we are talking about - they have to.

Good Point bro!!!
And because in the futur all softwares will be able to run all platform.

0711 said:
why is office on mac os?
why should they not?
WP7 has a different user experience and i like it much more than the android/ios experience....wp7 wouldn`t a good plattform if only the apps are the pros for it.
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Why is there iTunes Windows? It is slow by the way.
I am sure that companies do this so that user can have options and maybe pick the companies OS next time.

Peew971 said:
Because they're a software company?
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Click to collapse
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.

Keep in mind that the software developed for the iPhone was a separate team from those working on Wp7.
Also, if iphone users start to use a bunch of microsoft apps, maybe they will think "maybe I should be using a microsoft phone" and then buy a windows phone. Sure it could go the other way as well... but I'm an optimist.

To make money, as what pretty much most if not all paid apps are for.

digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.

canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
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is all about the market share, and profit.

canadariot2312 said:
Too much work? Maybe they figured that game exclusivity is what drives the console sales.
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But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.

digger1985 said:
But porting apps over to iOS is not? How come they can't figure out that app exclusivity also drives phone sales.
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Because console games are complicated and require certain components to work. Every smartphone uses the same SoC set no matter what OS they run whether it would be snapdragon, omap, a4, etc. The consoles are made differently, the 360 with tri-cores and the ps3 uses something really confusing. Than again, Final Fantasy did appear on the Xbox, but Sony didn't exclusive rights to that game.
I would imagine that it is miles easier for porting apps, or maybe they want to do something like having an app on a certain phone will just run better as oppose to something not native.

kabumm said:
And why not give iOS users possibility to like office and maybe consider wp7 for their next phone then?
Well, might never happen, cause most applers stay applers...
Sent from my HTC 7 Mozart using Board Express
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I didn't . Don't get me wrong, I loved my iPhone (until Apple butchered it with iOS 4), but when I went to go snag an iPhone 4 and got to play with it side by side with the Samsung Focus, the choice was clear--Focus is a MUCH nicer device, with a nicer screen and of course, Windows Phone 7 itself--which makes iOS look antiquated and stale.
That said, I also have a 2010 Macbook Pro 13" which I got purely so I can submit apps to the iOS store, but I can't stand Mac OSX, it's a ****in' turd. So I'm glad the laptop runs Windows 7 nicely enough, LOL.

digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.

Reflexx1 said:
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
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Click to collapse
If you are using a smartphone for a single app, than you need to rethink.
I heard that you can get Bing on Android devices as well, although not many people actually want it (seeing that it is a Google phone). I think putting Microsoft software on other OS' is not a bad idea. After all, you see Microsoft everywhere.

Reflexx1 said:
MS also makes the hardware for the XBOX. And they sold the hardware at a loss. Their revenue model was dependent on software attach rates being high on the console. People often choose game consoles based on exclusive games. MS could spend millions marketing Halo because they know that the reason people buy XBOX consoles is so that they could play awesome games. Period. Everything else the XBOX does is just gravy.
People buy smartphones for so many different reasons.
MS can't invest millions of dollars into the promotion and marketing of a single app, because a large portion of customers won't care about it.
Bing and One Note are fighting for mindshare. You can't have a killer phone app if nobody even knows what it is.
The only way to market and advertise how good Bing and One Note could be is by putting it the hands of the most people possible. And for now, that's on the iPhone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You comment doesn't make any sense. They sell hardware at a loss and make money from games. Keeping Xbox exclusives would make sense if they made money from the hardware. Since they make money from the games, they should be doing everything to port games to other platforms as well.

Thing is, Microsoft is the top player in the console industry - so they don't have to port games to other platforms. The increase in revenue would likely be offset by the increase in development cost to support the PS3 and/or Wii. Not to mention the fact that Microsoft Game Studio titles do drive console sales (I know plenty of people who have bought an Xbox 360 purely because of Halo for example); higher console sales lead to higher revenue (even if they did initially sell hardware at a loss) as people pay for the XBL Gold service, spend money in the Xbox marketplace and purchase Xbox 360 games (for which MS get's a license fee no matter if it's an in-house title or not).
This is pretty much how the printer/ink/toner industry or coffee-pod industry works also. They sell the hardware at little to no profit but you are tied in to buying their ink/toner or coffee-pods for the lifetime of the product. It's actually cheaper for me to purchase a new CLP every so often than it is to buy new toner - when I then sell the old printer online I more or less come out at zero cost.
In the smartphone sector, Apple is the king of the hill and it only makes sense to have their software available. Apps do not drive phone sales; UX (User eXperience) does. Keeping a title exclusive to WP7 makes no sense at all. At the same time, it does not make sense (business wise) to support all possible smartphone platforms out there, only iOS and Android has a valuable marketplace (app wise) so those are the platforms to support - this is why Google hasn't released their apps as official WP7 clients thus far; Windows Phone 7 doesn't have a big enough marketshare that it pays for them to spend development dollars on it. Once the OS gains momentum (if it does) Google will rather quickly release what they have to offer.
All said, I do agree it's painful when "better" software appears for the iPhone rather than their own OS, WP7, but this goes back to the fact Microsoft are so large. There is no single person making decisions, they have COO's and project managers en masse, often trying to out-do eachother or vote other projects down as they step on their own projects toes. Microsoft is filled to the brim with highly competent people, but they operate like a bureaucracy. Ask anyone who's ever worked there and they'll all more or less tell the same story - the layers of hierarchy is killing creative output.
How many times has Microsoft not come out with killer products which has failed miserably in the marketplace because upper management hasn't seen or understood the possibility. Take Media Center for example, it has given the best UX for DVRs for years - still, they never took it to the next level and now it's almost too late. With a lot of luck their embedded Media Center's showcased (in a back-room no less?!) at CES may make a dent in the market, but it's highly unlikely as they missed the boat. GoogleTV, AppleTV, Boxee and a whole lot of other players are now ruling the roost.
That's exactly what they did with the mobile sector also - they had great ideas and were the top players years ago. But they became complacent and stopped innovating. Then other players came along and completely killed them; what was WM's marketshare last year? How much of that was made up of HD2 sales which were re-flashed with Android?

digger1985 said:
Then why do they not port Halo to PS3 for example? Like you said, they are a software company, and could easily double the revenue. MS are idiots for not porting Xbox games like Halo to other platforms.
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This is off topic but why would you want to port Halo to the PS3? Halo is more aimed at muliplayer and as everyone knows Playstation sucks at on-line gaming.

Really? Full House Poker?

I mean I understand that it's to be released on both the Xbox and WP7 at the same time but really? That's it? I am thoroughly disappointed this time. Xbox has dug through mounds of **** just to make a name for itself and what has Windows Phone 7 shown in that department? I mean there's ilomilo and then theres iphone clones. It's so sad to see a first rate OS by a corporate giant turned into a third rate gaming platforms because they'd rather spend a huge budget on advertising what the phone can currently do rather than making that Xbox live tile appeal to a plethora of users who had hope in their hearts when they saw Xbox live integration and watched it be shat on with garbage like... well... half the stuff on the Xbox live WP7 marketplace. It's cool that you're getting the most popular iphone clone and a game I played on my beat up sega dreamcast a decade ago but really, where's the innovation?

I think it might be time to change your siggy...
I don't have an xbox, so I don't care so much about the integration, but I'm finding way more games I like on my phone right now than on android or winmo.
Currently working on twin blades, AC, I dig it, and The Harvest. Also play majong(sp) tiles and a couple rounds of spades as well.

nrfitchett4 said:
I think it might be time to change your siggy...
I don't have an xbox, so I don't care so much about the integration, but I'm finding way more games I like on my phone right now than on android or winmo.
Currently working on twin blades, AC, I dig it, and The Harvest. Also play majong(sp) tiles and a couple rounds of spades as well.
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Click to collapse
Ah, R.I.P. Twin Blades. It was a great game unfortunately I've since swapped memory cards coincidentally on the day it vanished from the market and alas I am left without one of the defining games on the platform. I Dig It I havent really visited in some time due to the inability to save (not sure if that's still present), The Harvest has somewhat annoying controls, a virtual joystick makes more sense than a point and click diablo-esque phone game in my opinion, and AC has been on multiple other platforms as well as the other two games though perhaps not the exact same program. The astounding part though is regardless of the faults it's still the best. It's just that they've given us an amazing game or two (The Harvest really is amazing the controls just aren't for me) and then since have lacked innovation greatly. Where I thought they were going to try and stand alone it now looks like they're trying to be a "me too" platform. I did recieve an email from someone regarding a mobile version of Torchlight though and though they couldn't confirm or deny they did tell me it was an option they were exploring. That would be amazing as that game only takes like what? 140 megs on the xbox? Dull it down a bit and it could be a game changer for WP7.

z33dev33l said:
Ah, R.I.P. Twin Blades. It was a great game unfortunately I've since swapped memory cards coincidentally on the day it vanished from the market and alas I am left without one of the defining games on the platform. I Dig It I havent really visited in some time due to the inability to save (not sure if that's still present), The Harvest has somewhat annoying controls, a virtual joystick makes more sense than a point and click diablo-esque phone game in my opinion, and AC has been on multiple other platforms as well as the other two games though perhaps not the exact same program. The astounding part though is regardless of the faults it's still the best. It's just that they've given us an amazing game or two (The Harvest really is amazing the controls just aren't for me) and then since have lacked innovation greatly. Where I thought they were going to try and stand alone it now looks like they're trying to be a "me too" platform. I did recieve an email from someone regarding a mobile version of Torchlight though and though they couldn't confirm or deny they did tell me it was an option they were exploring. That would be amazing as that game only takes like what? 140 megs on the xbox? Dull it down a bit and it could be a game changer for WP7.
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I know there are several big titles slated for first week in april. I agree they could do more, and I think they will. MS, if nothing else, is willing to throw money at devs.

So what's next on your list of complaint...

nrfitchett4 said:
I know there are several big titles slated for first week in april. I agree they could do more, and I think they will. MS, if nothing else, is willing to throw money at devs.
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yeah and though I'm ok with that theyre throwing money at devs to release iPhone ports. Originality is Microsoft ticket and they've got more capable devs on their rolodex than any other mobile os. They should utilize those resources...

Crimson Lotus said:
So what's next on your list of compliant...
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always such informative and insightful posts. They add a lot to the conversation.

I'm starting to agree with you about all the new releases. Puzzle games have their place (especially on a mobile phone platform), but without more action titles, it makes it seem like XBox live is not really a serious reason for someone to get a WP7 as Microsoft would like people to think.
That said, I have actually really, really enjoyed the XBox Live games. I used WinMo and Android for a long time before WP7 and never really got into gaming on either platform but for some reason, I just started playing games on WP7 a lot. I don't have an XBox so the integration with XBox is not something I really care about. I like the achievements. It gives me something to play for.
The April releases will keep me satisfied for a while, but in my opinion, they need a lot more releases like those in April, not just every now and then.
edit: oh yeah, an afterthought... maybe chill out on the tower defense games. 1 is enough on the entire platform. It seems like every other game on the Marketplace is a freakin tower defense game. Not a big fan.

I guess you guys haven't seen the poker commercial on xbox live then? Its quite stupid.
You can play the game on both your console and phone.
Spoiler alert; its not the way you think it is. Integration my ass.

Crimson Lotus said:
So what's next on your list of compliant...
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Well I'm not sure, but I believe he's FCC compliant. And he probably adheres to compliance codes for device usage?

sure haven't said:
Well I'm not sure, but I believe he's FCC compliant. And he probably adheres to compliance codes for device usage?
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LOL!!!
Give people a break. Typos are just typos and oftentimes, people use translators and such.

SPORTS GAMES! WTF!
Is there a single sports game on this platform? XBox may not have many either....but some sports games (i.e. one button swing type games) are made for mobile.
WP7 is lacking sports games something fierce.

thesecondsfade said:
LOL!!!
Give people a break. Typos are just typos and oftentimes, people use translators and such.
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lol yeah I'm just being a bugger. Heaven knows I've made my share of typos.

I'm sorry for those spelling errors...

thesecondsfade said:
I'm starting to agree with you about all the new releases. Puzzle games have their place (especially on a mobile phone platform), but without more action titles, it makes it seem like XBox live is not really a serious reason for someone to get a WP7 as Microsoft would like people to think.
That said, I have actually really, really enjoyed the XBox Live games. I used WinMo and Android for a long time before WP7 and never really got into gaming on either platform but for some reason, I just started playing games on WP7 a lot. I don't have an XBox so the integration with XBox is not something I really care about. I like the achievements. It gives me something to play for.
The April releases will keep me satisfied for a while, but in my opinion, they need a lot more releases like those in April, not just every now and then.
edit: oh yeah, an afterthought... maybe chill out on the tower defense games. 1 is enough on the entire platform. It seems like every other game on the Marketplace is a freakin tower defense game. Not a big fan.
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I agree about the tower defense games, but the star wars one is actually quite fun...
We could definitely use some more games, but we are still getting them faster than android!!!

How do y'all like WP7? I'm still on WinMo because Garmin Mobile XT is awesome, particularly where there is no cellular coverage. Also, I do not own a laptop and do a lot of long emails on my phone when I'm not at home with my 70lb desktop and I'm irritated that I can't get a WP7 device with the exact same keyboard as my Rhodium and at least the latest Qualcomm 45nm goodness in it complete with Adreno 205, much less the upcoming dual Cortex A8 with independent clock speed and CPU voltage and Adreno 220. Why in the Sam Hill did M$ decide that only 65nm OG Snapdragon SoC's were going to go into WP7 devices?
I read a few reviews of the Euro-spec 7 Pro and it seems that HTC used a crappy LCD but not as crappy as the HD7's, and they somehow messed up the chassis of the Rhodium and the keyboard. I like that I can get giant batteries for these things and that unibody sh*t jus doesn't float my boat. I guess I'm just pissed that WP7 is locked to 65nm Snapdragon and irritated with HTC for messing with the landscape qwerty slider chassis and keyboard that they perfected with the Rhodium.

sure haven't said:
lol yeah I'm just being a bugger. Heaven knows I've made my share of typos.
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I konw. Your comment was funny though.

DeathmonkeyGTX said:
How do y'all like WP7? I'm still on WinMo because Garmin Mobile XT is awesome, particularly where there is no cellular coverage. Also, I do not own a laptop and do a lot of long emails on my phone when I'm not at home with my 70lb desktop and I'm irritated that I can't get a WP7 device with the exact same keyboard as my Rhodium and at least the latest Qualcomm 45nm goodness in it complete with Adreno 205, much less the upcoming dual Cortex A8 with independent clock speed and CPU voltage and Adreno 220. Why in the Sam Hill did M$ decide that only 65nm OG Snapdragon SoC's were going to go into WP7 devices?
I read a few reviews of the Euro-spec 7 Pro and it seems that HTC used a crappy LCD but not as crappy as the HD7's, and they somehow messed up the chassis of the Rhodium and the keyboard. I like that I can get giant batteries for these things and that unibody sh*t jus doesn't float my boat. I guess I'm just pissed that WP7 is locked to 65nm Snapdragon and irritated with HTC for messing with the landscape qwerty slider chassis and keyboard that they perfected with the Rhodium.
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huh. most reviewers have said the 7 pro keyboard is the best keyboard since the tp2. Those tp2's won't last forever.

Microsoft's "Slam-dunk"

News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.

They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed

Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.

If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
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considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting

lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
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XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.

Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.

well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?

Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
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Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
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Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.

PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
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Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
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You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.

emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
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Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.

vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
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But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
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Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...

emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
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I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
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Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.

Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
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Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.

FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
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mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !

ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
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MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.

vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
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Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.

Review : XBox Live For Windows Phone.

As posted on L337Ware
Function : Provide gaming hub for Windows Phone.
Pros : Many of the features of XBox Live on the 360 are here such as text messaging amongst live subscribers, avatar customization, achievements, and leader boards.
Cons : Well to put it bluntly it's a little bit of a tease. Voice messages and voice chat are clearly absent though well within the capabilities of the phones. The avatar marketplace is a no show. True multi player gaming is pretty much non existence here. No access to videos and additional content available on the 360. No support for themes. No option to choose placement of apps outside of the hub.
Recommendation : You really don't have a choice here. If you want to game on a Windows Phone or even use certain applications that are even mildly related to gaming you will end up dealing with this hub. It's a severely crippled version of the Xbox Live you've come to know and love on the XBox. The glaring lack of functionality to include the lack of multi player titles and social tools inside of the games themselves are pretty unforgivable considering appearances of such features in games on other platforms. In the end I can't say I'm not left simply disappointed at this take on the Xbox Live brand.

L337Ware said:
As posted on L337Ware
Function : Provide gaming hub for Windows Phone.
Pros : Many of the features of XBox Live on the 360 are here such as text messaging amongst live subscribers, avatar customization, achievements, and leader boards.
Cons : Well to put it bluntly it's a little bit of a tease. Voice messages and voice chat are clearly absent though well within the capabilities of the phones. The avatar marketplace is a no show. True multi player gaming is pretty much non existence here. No access to videos and additional content available on the 360. No support for themes. No option to choose placement of apps outside of the hub.
Recommendation : You really don't have a choice here. If you want to game on a Windows Phone or even use certain applications that are even mildly related to gaming you will end up dealing with this hub. It's a severely crippled version of the Xbox Live you've come to know and love on the XBox. The glaring lack of functionality to include the lack of multi player titles and social tools inside of the games themselves are pretty unforgivable considering appearances of such features in games on other platforms. In the end I can't say I'm not left simply disappointed at this take on the Xbox Live brand.
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Maybe I got you wrong, but just tap and hold any icon in the games hub will bring up the menu where you can choose to pin it to the homescreen.

Did you just buy your phone? Because we've all been saying that for 6 months now and there are threads about it. Unless you just need traffic...
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

I've been playing Game Chest: Logic Games Chess against my wife over XBox live for months now. I play my moves on my WP7 and she plays on XBox.com in a browser-based copy of the game.
Isn't that multiplayer XBox-Live? Or am I missing something?

Actually, voice messaging/chat isn't well within the capabilities of the phone. Until Mango is released all network traffic is done thru HTTP which adds way too much lag to use for live voice chatting. Messaging would work, but why re-invent the wheel when full socket support is coming later this year?
The lack of true multiplayer gaming is due to the same reason - http just isn't a viable alternative to raw sockets. The best you can really do at the moment is turn-based games, and they do exist.
Adding content to the home screen is, as someone else already pointed out, as easy as long pressing the title and selecting pin to start.
This is one area where I can truly appreciate peoples comments about this being v1 of a new OS - no other mobile platform has done this already and what's already on WP is pretty damn good considering the current platform limitations.

Remember, all we've seen of Mango at Mix 11 was the developer-centric stuff. MS have yet to announce all the consumer-centric goodies and I bet XBox-live multiplayer realtime will be a part of that.
I'd really like to see a multiplayer Halo game on WP7, controlled by a bluetooth XBox-controller.
The HD7's kickstand would enable use of that while the phone is stood on a table (e.g. when on the train)
How cool?

Jim Coleman said:
I've been playing Game Chest: Logic Games Chess against my wife over XBox live for months now. I play my moves on my WP7 and she plays on XBox.com in a browser-based copy of the game.
Isn't that multiplayer XBox-Live? Or am I missing something?
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It is called turn based not multiplayer
Sent from my Bionix powered Vibrant

lqaddict said:
It is called turn based not multiplayer
Sent from my Bionix powered Vibrant
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Or more accurately "turn based multiplayer" you still have more than one player which makes it multi, even if that isn't quite what you wanted in multiplayer.

Can I just point out that the "hub" isn't the "Xbox Live" hub it's actually called the "Games" hub.

I also want to say that while I tend to agree that it is vital to the success and pricing of Live titles to incorporate more features, I whole heartedly believe that they are coming sooner than later. People continuously call me a fan boy, but I'm more of a realist in the case of this OS, and realize that Rome wasn't built in a day. I see the effort, and if you don't, you're blind. And I see the potential. So much has been said about the lack of updates, and "oh, I'm God, so I demand updates on my schedule in small packets or I'm going to Android" that nobody has realized the reality here. Features, like the ones discussed here, are going to be so tightly integrated it's going to be amazing. Just watching MIX, you see WHY they haven't released small updates yet, and I've said this in other threads. One feature links in 13 different areas, it's all integrated. So we see this with the socket support, and multitasking, and the ability to control background processes... When these are released, I think we are going to see a wave, and I mean WAVE, of new applications which will completely revolutionalize WP...

^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.

vetvito said:
^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.
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I disagree, I see no reason why someone on an XBox shouldn't be able to play against someone on a WP7 in realtime. This is going to be killer, MS will not miss this opportunity to outdo iPhone (for which there is no equivalent games console) and Android (closest thing is Xperia Play which is a bit poo).
I don't see any logic in your prediction.

^ maybe you're right. However, if and when Microsoft introduces true multiplayer gaming in 2012 or later. It will more than likely be for Windows Phone vs Windows Phone only.
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<br />
<br />
I disagree, I see no reason why someone on an XBox shouldn't be able to play against someone on a WP7 in realtime. This is going to be killer, MS will not miss this opportunity to outdo iPhone (for which there is no equivalent games console) and Android (closest thing is Xperia Play which is a bit poo).<br />
<br />
I don't see any logic in your prediction.
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Yeah they WP with Kinnect. However my point is in the mobile world. WP vs iPhone or WP vs Android, as we already have iPhone vs Android games(they're awesome).
Since the Xbox Live brand is involved I'm sure the chances of WP vs anything not Microsoft related are slim to none.
If you haven't noticed 360 users haven't been running in droves to purchase these phones. The average 360 user isn't of contracting age.

vetvito said:
Yeah they WP with Kinnect. However my point is in the mobile world. WP vs iPhone or WP vs Android, as we already have iPhone vs Android games(they're awesome).
Since the Xbox Live brand is involved I'm sure the chances of WP vs anything not Microsoft related are slim to none.
If you haven't noticed 360 users haven't been running in droves to purchase these phones. The average 360 user isn't of contracting age.
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I have to disagree there, especially considering that playing online on a 360 console actually costs money, and usually requires you be an adult... I have no idea where this misconception comes from that all Live players are kids, or even that half of them are... I'm assuming from people who have never played a day online.
I also don't see this phone as just "Live" services, there are other games that will go cross-platform... Has Apple developed a game that interacted with Android users? How about Google with iPhone? All the games are third party, aren't they? The Live games will interact with other Live games, obviously, I don't see why there would be any surprise or negative feedback there... But I do see third-party, real time multiplayer coming sooner than 2012, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of them get released once Mango goes live, as they would have been developing for a few months by then.
I don't get why people are so negative about things, as it is now, developers have pushed the available apis to their limits, why would that suddenly stop with a larger user base and greater access? I expect these sorts of post from certain biased users, but not users that appear to have brains most of the time.
I would also take the time here to note that if Google, or any other random developer, released a brand new desktop OS at this moment, version 1.0, would the same retards in this forum who are so Anti-Microsoft/Pro-Google be quick to say "this is trash because it doesn't live up to Windows 7 of today" or would they be hypocrites and label it a first release and state it has more features than Windows 95 did? Because I guarantee you it would be the latter, as we saw when Android was released in its G1 form far behind iOS.

Version 1 where is it? Please show me version 1. Get over it, this is a continuation.
I'm not being negative, just realistic.
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.

vetvito said:
Version 1 where is it? Please show me version 1. Get over it, this is a continuation.
I'm not being negative, just realistic.
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.
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I wasn't specifically talking about you, but this isn't a continuation, nowhere near it, and as long as you guys continue to paint it as one, you'll have ignorant, biased opinions...
And you're making assumptions, they allow games like AlphaJax right now to utilize what they can, I don't see why they wouldn't in the future. You guys create these scenarios where a lot of users come, think you know what you're talking about, and believe this bs... I can't keep track of how many people said that most of the features announced for Mango would take 2 years to implement...
A lot of people had no idea what Android was until Verizon joined the party, and even still, 8 out of 10 people will call any Android phone a Droid, and tell you that their Droid Does... Expecting overnight success isn't realistic, and neither is making assumptions when you have no idea what you're talking about, or have any type of track record to go off of...
I also only brought up 360 because you made the point of the user age... I don't see many people buying it just because of that from a platform standpoint because this isn't called "Xbox Live Phone" it's called Windows phone... I know a crap load of Live players who own Macs...
By the end of this year, I think we'll be looking at these devices entirely different. Both from a gaming standpoint and functional standpoint. Though, the phone is more than functional 99% of the time for me.

What number comes after 6?
I'm ignorant though.

vetvito said:
How much do you want to bet Microsoft wont allow third party multiplayer games? They will have to go through Xbox LIVE.
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Why would they not allow it? They allow you to make them today and will obviously continue to do so once there is raw socket support. They are however rolling out more support for indie developers to gain access to XBL as well, so I wouldn't be surprised to see more and more of the great games we have today become XBL games with achievements and whatnot - this does command a minimum price of $2.99 however.
vetvito said:
Xbox LIVE users are different than the average 360 user/owner. Matter of fact I haven't met a person on Xbox LIVE who knows what WP7 is. Get on there and ask people yourself.
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Really? Don't know who you've been speaking to, but everyone I've gamed with knows very well what it is. Hell, you must be a real ignorant bastard not to know it considering they've been showing loads of WP commercials on the 360 dashboard since launch.
--edit--
Oh and come on, WP7 is obviously a v1. Sure, it's built ontop of the same old WinCE kernel (well, an updated one) but it has absolutely nothing in common with the previous Windows Mobile versions. You couldn't even take a native WM6 app and run it on WP7 without heavy modification - and that's not just because of the locked down nature of WP.

Well done guys, insults are the way to go. I wonder more and more how old people on this forum are.
Sent from my Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

vetvito said:
What number comes after 6?
I'm ignorant though.
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WP7 is version 1.