Related
Hey Guys
Video and Piccies
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-1573973/
It doesn't look to be more hardware challenging than sense + wm 6.5.3 .... I wonder if they changed the boot-loader requirements much
Well... I thing it's time to give a try to "you know who... Harry".... (iphone) LOL. First impresion, i don't like WM7.
I can't believe that they haven't had a leak of it yet
and if all apps are restricted, android here i come
I can't post links for some stupid reason, but there is a REALLY long video demo on channel 9. It is called:
First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo
just got to "channel9 do msdn dot com" and search for the above.
windows 7
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
Note how he skips questions on prompts for lockscreen.
Also how he skips out on showing any of the day to day features and how they will look.
The rep in the slashgear vid also avoids all relevant questions.
TBH consumers and certain sites bemoaned WM6.5 for crippling devices like the HD2 and TG01....yet now they are all upset that this is too simple. It is a phone for noddy.
Guys in the media, make up your mind!!!
I hope XDA can come to the rescue of this pos. eye candy only goes so far, but it offers no nutrition that we can use daily.
This is not looking one iota like a business capable device.
Terribly disappointed with Win Phone 7. It's a regular person OS. Completely built around Social Networking with very little appeal to the business user and with ZERO appeal to us tweakers and hackers.
I hate the all text interface. Looks like i'll be sticking with 6.5 for a long time to come.
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
wow what a waste of RD money. Still very slow and lagging. Looks nothing more then a UI upgrade over wmo6.
I am off to the next google phone!!
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
tleaf100 said:
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
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very good post, thanks a lot!
I'm sure, MS will have success with 7.
kenikh said:
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
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kenikh said:
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform. While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
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Gotta agree with this.
I Personally dont know what to say about winmob 7. First time viewing the video was a SHOCK. It was soo radically different from what im used to looking at on 6.5 and 6.5.3.
It was nothing like sense either.
I wont say if I hate it or like it yet till I use it, or a zune HD since its nothing like anything Iv used.
It appears as if the business user focus is gone, but perhaps they will show somehow bring it back when they further demo it nxt month.
I will say one thing about winmobil 7, after years of using 6,6.1,6.5 I feel more comfortable using android then win7.
I feel windows Mobil 7 will be wm6.5's successor only in name.
I don't understand what y'all are talking about saying that this will not work for business users?!?! Microsoft is going to have functionality for all of its core business functions (i.e. word, excel, powerpoint, exchange, etc...). Am I to understand that just because a phone has the capability to appeal to the business persons life not just their work, means that it is not business capable?
Is there anything saying that the UI of a, "business" phone has to be bland, boring and lacking any modern interface? Does it have to look like windows 98?
Anyways, sign me up for the pre-order of this thing! I hope the Dell Mini 5 comes with WMSS!!!
Am I the only one who also doesnt give a frazzle about social networking?
I prefer real life updates from people who can be bothered to text or call me and engage in conversation, and I do likewise.
I must be too old fashioned...wait, I'm 23....sign me up to the care home!
Reason why i didnt think it was a business capable device was because it seemed to be so slim on features...and hell we cannot even see the settings screens, or have a way to set someone's callerID picture????
I did notice a mention of 'policies' so perhaps that is the way for XDA to get around WMP7 and its protections.
But yes, most people have depressingly low levels of intelligence and cannot be bothered to find anything like XDA or tract technical waters. Hence iphone, and WMP7 and every other dumbass idea will get market traction.
And it gets traction because it LOOKS finished. WM6.5 never looked finished because even if you made it look perfect you would still know of something else to tweak.
With iphone and WMP7 the philsophy to get market acceptance is simply to lock it down so that people learn to accept what they have whatever it is, to look at the visuals, give up wanting to tweak/personalise/fix, and use the phone....
oh wait...that's almost commendable
Basically - give someone something unfixable and in time they will learn to love it
Ouch. Frankly... that hurts.
I'm not at all a fan of that kind of mashup UI. It looks just like a big non-appealing mess to me. I love Sense, and to me that's what it should have been. W7P seems to be all about a very limited set of tasks aggregated around social networking and stuff that I don't give a damn about.
And to add to it,
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Screen resolution, aspect ratio, CPU speed, memory, you name it; it's all mandated by Microsoft. Even the button configuration: Start, back, search. That's it. No deviations. Speaking of deviations - no more custom UIs, Microsoft doesn't allow them.
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So we have no hope of actually getting something different. Sigh...
They didn't even talk or show about the app concept, only core functionality, so it's hard to see what we can expect. So far, it seems that it won't be soon that I'll move away from WM6.5, except that...
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Windows Phone 7 Series is a clean break. There is no backwards compatibility at all.
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That sucks VERY VERY badly. Firstly, the ~8 years of WM development and the great apps it has led to are LOST. Start from scratch again. We're again in the situation with a "dead" platform stuck with limited core funtionality for 2 years until developers start putting out interesting stuff for it.
But where it sucks even more, is that from today on WM6.5 is pretty much dead. Who's going to continue developing apps for something that will disappear in 6 months? So those who will decide to stay with WM6.5 will have to do with what they have now...
I also can't help but feel sorry for some at this point, like Schaps who's about to release something great after years of development... 3 months before the whole platform is wiped.
W7P sucks.
Hopefully by the time I need a new phone android will be mature enough, seeing as after 2 years it only just begins getting decent apps...
this winmo 7 is a s**t!!
As a user of a ZuneHD I am extremely excited about WMP7. The UI on the ZuneHD seems a little strange at first, but once you use it you'll be amazed at how efficient it really is. I think this also bodes well for App development for the ZuneHD.
As far as business use, apparently many of you did not watch the entire keynote this morning. They demonstrated how WMP7 can integrate both your business and personal data while still providing indication of which area the data belongs to. There is also an entire "hub" dedicated to business apps like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.
For me, this is much much better than anything I expected.
People kept complaining about how little Windows Mobile has changed over the years. I'm glad the new OS turned out like this. Great change compared to the drab legacy that has been dragging on. Also I'm a huge fan of the lack of gloss in the UI and heavy text stylization. Love the Zune HD inspired design and I'm glad I didn't get a Zune HD, so that now I can get a WP7S phone next year.
Also to those worried about settings, page, give the guys a break. They announced the freaking thing TODAY. Over time, we'll see more of WP7.
WoW...everyone is quick to judge !????
I'm a PC..haha...no seriously. Looking at what has come into light in the pulic domain is a fantastic idea / product / OS (yes okay its a zune with phone features).
Everyone who likes windows mobile will have to change thier ways....just like they did with the OS platform like windows 95 / 98 / 2000 / XP / Vista and now Windows 7 and now its the mobile sides turn.
Out with the old 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 etc, in with the new....and its a good thing its totally different.
people here may complain that "OH NO...no more TouchFLO".....so WHAT ! my fav company is HTC, and yes there will be an interface which HTC will develop (well they already have...hehe)....just hold on to your pants people....its going to be SUPER ....we just saw the OS and thats it.....MIX10 show will provide you all the details and whats to offer...hello Killer Apps!
What you see in all the videos is an unfinished OS product...there is a reason for this; Samsung, LG, ACER, HTC etc will all have thier input and style, however the base functions stay the same...(Zune, Pictures, XboX,
I can tell you the Phone Dialer (man its ugly) , that WILL change. TXT messages, that will change and some other things....which everyone will see very soon
in the words of a wise guy: http://www.moviesoundclips.net/movies1/transformers/shallow.wav
+ Que PPC said:
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
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If you read some of the other WM7 threads, well.... not so much "cool", but rather there is a big feeling of disappointment. As I said in a different post, it looks as if a Zune and an Ipod gave birth to.... this thing. If you have the urgent need to let the world know that you are in the middle of taking a big dump, then this is the phone for you
I will apologize in advance for this will be long and random because my thoughts bounce around like that
You know I've been trying to figure it all out lately. It seems a good portion of XDA (40% according to this poll) members are liking 6.5.3 moreso than 7. OK...fine. Then we have this huge population of people (34% according to this poll that plan on switching to another mobile OS. Not to mention the slew of people still pissed and wondering if the HD2 will be forward compatible. And the ever increasing amount of people still prefer Sense UI over WP7. Its all so much to address so I just stopped posting for a while...but I wonder?!?!? Is change really that bad?
Its like people have been *****ing for months wanting M$ to give us the scoop on WP7...we have it and we're pissed. lol. lets move past all this...I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people. Why don't we use this forum for sharing information and not bashing something that not out nor is it finished...we don't have even close to half of the info about this phone yet we are judging it based upon insubstantial information.
I remember when the videos started coming out, the guy at the booth mentions that copy/paste hadn't been implemented into the OS yet...then I read on this forum that there is NO COPY/PASTE. One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...so all current users can still have all the things they love currently for the next 10 years (with microsofts string of innovation..lol.) But lets be honest lets look at 6+ as a whole:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
Blandness. This is the biggest issue. I've mentioned this before in other posts. Why is it everytime I want to accomplish anything in the OS I'm lead to an ugly white screen? Settings=ugly. SMS=ugly. Email=Ugly ANY SYSTEM MENU=UGLY. Its no wonder we all like Sense UI from HTC. Go to search and look up Contact Manager...see how many apps you get. Look up music players, lock screens, UI's etc. We got that by dozens. WHY? Now if you look at the scene currently...its because it gives us a choice to personalize, and I agree. But if you look back this was born out of a need for better rather than a need for different/personalization. Media player sucked...it was bland hard to navigate and generally a terrible experience. AC takes the best out the (Iphone) and creates it for WM (S2P)...sure it looks great but the need was much more for a BETTER player. Same can be said for S2U2 et al. HTC needed Manilla/sense to make our outdated UI look appealing/current. Everything about Sense is better than stock, Same can be said for Samsungs Touchwiz. These things were born out of necessity.
Terrible manufacturing. For all the HTC love out there, we all seem to let them get away with the fact that for the past 10 years (up until HD2) they have been giving us awesome software coupled with terrible hardware. It is a fact that we had incomplete/missing drivers and because of this alot of development was stalled or took forever to do. And image how much money HTC made off of shaving costs with shoddy manufacturing.
I won't got too indepth there but to keep it simple, M$ has those basic problems to deal with when making a new OS.
Now look at WP7, Easily top of the line spec sheet just for minimum requirements. I knew we were in for greatness when we got that bit of info. C'mon snapdragon as the minimum...awesome. This also gets rid of those Terrible manufacturing woes...so people can't just put out trash with the M$ OS on it. No more phones that crash from simple program openings. Also WVGA as the standard. No more need to build an app and then port it to other resolutions (WIN..) This coupled with the XNA/Silverlight development tolls make it possible to build for Xbox, PC, Mobile all at the same time...thats awesome and a huge win. Lastly, with Metro, there is no need for user skins on top of the UI. I know alot of you guys are newer to WM, but back in the day...I remember where the home screen was just "the homescreen"..the ugly green or blue homescreen with whatever info you needed on it (Weatherpanel FTW..anyone?) People realized how blah it was and you see where we are now. Look at Sense...its awesome because it gives you all the same info but it looks good and its faster. Metro has live tiles that give you access to EVERYTHING you need on your phone. Its not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation...HTC weather HUB anyone?
So yeah, a phone is a means of communications, a cell phone is a portable way of communication..Wp7 looks to be communication on steroids. I apologize for this extremely long message but i had to get out everything on my mind...in a place where people would read it. If you stuck it out, thank you. If you post telling me that was too long, you're absolutely right. Sorry
Good One..Well said, and I agree
devs, here do not trying to understand, if MS is closing one door, they are opening 100 doors as in the Xbox and other services can be synced among them, so this gives lot of opportunity to devs to come up with exciting creativve ideas.
Also, MS wnats to extend the scope with reaching out to all types of users and segments, and what they have showed here is the perfect thing.I am wwaiting for a review or hands on for a fully furnished and finished wp7 device.
I totally agree with you style. WM5 was a good os, but boring, Then here comes WM6.0 6.1 with touchflo. It was awesome, but the os sucked really bad, had a bunch of bugs and its just a let down. I had a htc 8125 which the phone itself was a resilient phone, but it just was sluggish with any of the OS except WM5 on it. I believe the phone couldn't exactly hold its own with the software but never the less it was slow running wm 6.5. The phone ran the os but I think windows had a bunch of problems. I am no longer using my 8125 cuz the poor thing died from a heart attack and major artery blockage from being used hard lol. I have a 8525 coming in and im planning on putting wm7 on it. Can't wait. I may be in for a let down but if I am then I still have a pretty cool phone coming to me, and it makes me look kinda cool for having it haha.
+1 good post b
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
gogol said:
A very good post.
Just keep in mind that WP7 is a "new" platform. It is not an upgrade of current WM6.x.
Being a new platform, it means new kind of hardware, OS, and applications.
It will start with 0 or less available applications when it launch. Same like iPhone / Android when they just newly released. Nothing to worry here, except you hate waiting.
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So true....but there will be a good amount of apps available on launch because its using the Zune software so it will be running Zune Apps...I have a few games on my Zune already...all are nice and smooth.
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
~style1~
Thank you guys for the comments, I already had my flame suit on..
Exactly i was thinking same. MS has to start from 0 ..... new os, new hw, new life.
I like the functionality of new OS but not the GUI . and i believe lot will change till final release. Still i will use wp7 if everything seems to work out.
personally i would like cab installation and customization on wp7
guess how cool it would be lil customization like Sense UI on wp7 .. or adding app by cab ....
but i think whatever wp7 will be, it will worth using.
style1 said:
Also BobbyJ, you won't be able to upgrade the 8525 to WP7. Hardware isn't up to par.
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Hardware is up to par, only the buttons are not the same.
user Xmoo (does something with testing devices) stated on a dutch forum that there are HD2's running WP7 at HTC Taiwan.
Some user here stated (from internal sources) that it is defenitely possible to run WP7. All microsoft said till this date, that the HD2 doenst have the right buttons.
Im agree totally with you on this subject. Its certainly the only way for Microsoft to capture some decent marketshare.
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
pilgrim011 said:
@style1, you don't no what real multitasking is. Guys from MS already confirmed that thirdy party multitasking won't be allowed. And about other things you said, let me repeat myself: they're trying to make an OS for underage people, retards, music and gaming fans which don't care about the fact that they don't have real multitasking, file system access etc.
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I don' remember reading or hearing confirmation that multitasking won't be available. They clearly stated many times that some kind of multitasking will be available. We shall know everything(or almost everything) after MIX.
Stop judging unfinished OS that you don't even know. What you're saying is pure speculation.
style1 said:
OS Fragmentation...this is one of the biggest issues for me. Everytime I see an app I like on this website I have to see if its resolution compatible with my device (WVGA FTW). Go look in the XDA development section for new apps or apps in developments...I'm sure everyone of them will have a post saying "please make this for QVGA" or something similar. This is huge. Android also has a similar issue BTW
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I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
It is not specifically the OS, but the "platform" as a whole (screen size, screen type, number of buttons, processor speed, type of buttons, size of RAM, flip phone, slide phone, whatnot, etc).
And yes, it is painful to maintain a lot of builds specific for those kind of varieties.
Not to mention lack OS update because of phone operator / carrier lazyness (I bought my HTC Kaiser unlocked from HTC because I learned that T-Mobile is very slow giving update).
That's why I am glad that Microsoft is now taking control of the minimum hardware specification. Because that would be an advantage of current WM situation, especially to reduce fragmentation as much as possible.
Also the fact that Microsoft will provide OS update and hardware drivers (no more *****ing around about HTC missing drivers).
Instead of developer wandering around to "patch" their apps to work on fragmented platform, or figuring out tricks to over-come missing drivers. They can now enjoy leveraging their creativity for making consistent apps in well supported plaform (WP7).
RAMMANN said:
I'm not sure if you can make the OS responsible for that. I'd rather blame it on lazy development. And I don't really say it's so easy. Developing for WM is just so much different than coding for a desktop OS. It's not sufficient at all to just throw some control on a dialog and that's it. Due to small space on screen you have to be really carefully what you do, and always have to keep in mind to NOT develop for a fixed resolution. It's painful but everything UI related needs to be handled dynamically and automatically adjust to whatever screen resolution/orientation. You see the problems that some apps had when the start menu moved to bottom? Few pixels wrong and the app is garbage!! But then... the applications that were developed properly are still working! Go figure!
On the other hand if the framework for WP7 is really THAT great then the whole UI development should be totally resolution independent. This is really needed because I don't think it's right that there's only WVGA for WP7. It was only told that WVGA is the minimium requirement, which for me means in the future there will be higher resolutions and we'd face the same problems again.
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style1 said:
I mean its borderline ludicrous when people are saying (as this thread ) that he's selling his phone because because he's not sure if he's getting the upgrade to the OS that isn't gonna be released for another 6 months...lol WTF people.
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The problem is not just that the HD2 won't get an upgrade, it's the combination of it not getting an upgrade plus the fact that WP7 will not be backwards-compatible with Windows Moble applications. That is something almost nobody saw coming.
The effect of the non-backwards-compatibility announcement has been to completely kill off Windows Mobile as a viable platform for commercial software development. (Look at Adobe, look at Skype - there will be plenty of other developers jumping ship, most of whom probably won't make any public announcement about it).
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
style1 said:
One guy asked the phone operator about multitasking. The guy replies "the phone itself multitasks." He was then followup asked to go to the home screen and press the back button in which the phone lead him back to to the task he was previously doing (IE: MULTITASKING)....I look on this forum..."WP7 doesn't multitask wtfloljumpfrombuildingdiewithmelmaojkjkjkjk." where did this random unsubstantiated info come from? Its like people aren't even watching, listening, reading anymore.
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No, it's like you aren't paying attention.
There have been a number of announcements and leaks on the subject of multi-tasking, and we now have a pretty clear idea of how it will work. There can only be one foreground application. When a typical application is moved to the background, it will be suspended, but capable of being resumed from the same point when it is reactivated; it will not, however, be capable of actually doing anything while in the background. It will be possible for certain, select applications and services to actually run in the background rather than being paused, but this facility will be available only to applications developed by MS, or by their "partners" - i.e. phone manufacturers and networks.
style1 said:
6.5.3 is awesome and MS has said it will continue to build upon it...
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Yes, but no one takes that claim seriously.
Shasarak said:
If, when I bought my HD2, I had been told "well, it won't get an upgrade to WP7, but any application written for Windows Mobile will run quite happily on WP7, so there's every incentive for people to keep developing for the HD2's platform" that would have been fine. If they'd said "Windows Mobile will cease to be a commercially viable platform 3 months after you buy the phone, but you will eventually get an upgrade to WP7" that would have been okay - not great, but okay. But for them to say "you won't be getting an upgrade and the phone's existing OS is no longer commercially viable as of now" and for them to say that 3 months after I bought it but not to say anything beforehand - that is something I can well understand people being annoyed about.
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If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
Maybe we also forget that WM 6.5.x is brand new and just about to be launched. How many phones have you seen with a 6.5.3 stock ROM? There will still be plenty of new phones coming!
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
RAMMANN said:
If you buy the HD2 then you can develop for the HD2. You can't expect to develop software for devices which are released 1 year later and run a completely different OS. Officially noone really confirmed that HD2 runs WP7. People were spectaculating that it would run on the HD2 but these have only been rumours that shouldn't really make anyone decide to buy the phone. HD2 is as good as a WM 6.5 device can get and that's what it was made for. Nothing more.
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The point is that no one realised WP7 would be "a completely different OS" - we were all completely blindsided by that. No one expected a situation where there wouldn't be a single WM6 application capable of running on WP7. If, as everyone expected and as HTC allowed HD2 buyers to believe, WP7 had been backwards-compatible, WM6.5 would still be a viable platform for commercial software: people could keep on developing software for WM6, secure in the knowledge that it would run just as well on WP7 when that eventually came along. The lack of backwards-compatibility has killed WM6 stone cold dead as a commercial platform: no sensible commercial developer will develop for it at all, anymore, they'll skip straight to WP7 (if they even bother with a Microsoft version at all). Until the no-backwards-compatibility announcement happened, an upgrade was much less important; now, it really matters.
RAMMANN said:
I see the WM 6.5.x vs WP7 scenario to be a bit similar like Windows NT vs. Windows 95. Windows NT was mainly a network OS used in companies while Windows 95 was designed more for the end user that's supposed to play DirectX games and such. And in this case if you bought a PC with Windows NT you couldn't develop games which need to support newest DirectX technology....
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That's such a ridiculous analogy I hardly know where to begin.... Well, for starters, consider just how much Windows 95 software actually ran under NT - pretty much all of it did, with the only exception being games. And for those who needed gaming support, MS continued with fresh releases based on the Windows 95 development stream - 98, 98SE even ME - all of which could run virtually all NT-oriented software as well. Those releases didn't dry up until after full support for DirectX (and even improved DOS emulation) ended up in the NT line.
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
Shasarak said:
Microsoft here has done the equivalent of abandoning Windows completely and basing all of its future OS releases on UNIX - if you imagine that people running Windows would be unable to upgrade to the new UNIX OS when it came along. If they had done that, what do you think Windows software developers would have done? And how do you think people who had bought Windows PC's would have felt?
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Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications (yeah, we here will certainly do, but most users won't, and even most software companies won't). WM has been going along its way to oblivion in terms of market share, and, frankly, we didn't see many (if any at all) big software guys pumping investment into the platform anyway.
Apart from "big" Windows I'd guess the biggest MS-driven market is the XBox. So they chose compatibility with that "ecosystem" over the WM one. Disappointing as it is, I think that it was the right decision for MS really.
If I may address a few things...Aaron Woodman has gone on record saying that there will be multitasking on the phone. Let me just drop an excerpt:
"Among the details unveiled by him in that interview, we can count the fact that there will be multitasking in the new operating system, although previous rumors pointed otherwise. However, the approach on applications is a little different than before, as they will be included/integrated with the hubs Windows Phone OS 7 sports, and this is something that Microsoft is set to detail at MIX10. The main idea, however, is that apps will be there, and that they will be selected so as to be in line with the new user experience the company is trying to promote."
So maybe I as well as microsoft have NO IDEA WHAT MULTITASKING IS. I'm not trying to make opinions and substantiate them with evidence...I'm looking at the evidence and drawing a conclusion from it. M$ says there will be multitasking in their platform then I have to conclude that there will be multitasking even if I haven't personally seen the way it will be handled on a bigger scale. Trying to prove otherwise without any info is just reckless. Now of course it doesn't seem that they are multitasking in the traditional way and I am curious to see exactly how the system is multitasking but if I may speculate I think it deals with the back button. It seems everytime you switch tasks you press the home button then go into your hub of what you are going to do...once you finish you press the home button and go into the next task...since we know the back button doesn't lead to the Homescreen, maybe the back button leads through all the previous tasks in the order that you went through them. That would be simple and unobtrusive. Thats just my speculation based upon the videos I've seen so far...prove me wrong please.
Also about being blindside you're right it was a shock to most. I think M$ has gone on record saying they will still support WM as WPclassic(WPC) so i don't think you guys have just been outright abandoned...but. I wonder, with all the issues that you are labelling about WP7 but still complaining that the HD2 wont be able to upgrade to it, which side of the fence do you really sit on. You can't really be on both sides. But while I'm being prudent HTC has gone on record many times saying the HD2 will be upgradable to WP7, M$ has said that it doesn't plan on upgrading the device. They site the three button crap as a reason but interestingly enough Tony Wilkinson, Microsoft Australia's Business Operations Director, has said that "there are some hardware components that the HD doesn't have." Could this be why the HD2 coming to Tmoble seems to be a beefier version? We don't know but its always fun to speculate. Since M$ hasn't offically released a FULL spec list we have no idea but we will know at MIX10. Hell maybe M$ has no plan on upgrading HD2 but they are leaving it solely up to the manufactures to deliver on that which is why there are 2 conflicting views coming from HTC and M$...who knows right now. But based on the facts these are likely conclusions.
I won't bother with any other thing said because its more off topic..I don't really care whether people think that people will stop developing on 6.5.X just because WP7 is released... they obviously underestimate this site. Hell what more do people need?
~style~
vangrieg said:
Except WM is nowhere near Windows in terms of network effect... Very few people will notice the loss of WM applications
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HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
Shasarak said:
HD2 users will, which is why they're angry at the lack of an upgrade path.
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Some of them will, some won't. I am an HD2 user and I don't care, I don't want to own it for another year anyway, I'd happily exchange it right now if there were something better. I'm sure most HD2 users don't even know what OS their device is running (I know my wife wouldn't know). So we're talking about a few hundred thousand users max. And that's just the user side. A commercial WM developer network is pretty much non-existent right now, apart from SPB, Resco and a couple other small firms.
Well done. I completely agree. I'm looking forward to it. Most users are just bitter and don't want change. I think the main worry with the cooks or other users is that is that it won't offer the amount of customization of 6.5 and below, but they fail to forget that the Iphone is boring until you jailbreak, in the process opening up many possibilities. I think the same will be said for WP7S
I'm not gonna lie, I disliked many things that MS did to their mobile platform at first, but I can't deny the things I love about it.
The 'Core' of the OS looks better
Gone are the days of ugly, clunky, and cumbersome menus. I hated how the menus looked in Windows Mobile, they were dreadful. And the Panoramic interface bring something new to the table.
Updates For Everyone
MS is now making the Update system unified and easy. No more waiting for your carrier to make an update or quick fix, and that's if they even have the interest in doing so. Being a Treo Pro and BlackJack II/i617 owner, I've been left in the dust twice by my carriers and vendors.
No More Low-End Common Denominators
There are some very powerful devices that have released with Windows Mobile like the TG01 and the HD2. But that power isn't going to any use because apps haven't been optimized for the hardware. Dev's haven't and have no reason to strive to bring vibrant application UI to the platform, this is why most apps look dated. Other OSs gave the Dev's motivation strive for something nicer.
Strict Hardware Requirements
Another thing I love about WP7. The minimal specs are high-end. The problem with WinMo and Android is that there wasn't many regulations. The OEM buys the license and then they were allowed to bring their crappy hardware to the market. This also created way to many problems they may seem like flexibility and choice but are ultimately weighing the platform down.
Integrations With MS Services and Social Networking
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm own or am signed up for every proprietary service MS has in plan for WP7. I've been a Zune user since the beginning, and I'm loving the unlimited music downloads and streaming. I'm also an avid Achievement hunter and XBL for mobile is perfect for me. But the social networking is what really has me smiling. Instead of having to open a app to check updates and post to my different services I can just go to pics hub or my contacts.
Finally Dev Attention and Vibrant UI for APPS
This is one of the main things I love about this revision. I was sick of how apps looked. They had no visual substance whatsoever! You know what I'm talking about. And a LOT of dev's don't show WinMo any love. MS has brought this to the attention, because this is a buying point for many people. Finally apps that look decent like the few I've collected below:
The integration of everything needed for communication into the OS itself. I hated the iPhone because of the fact that you had to launch an app every time you wanted to do something.
I also like the strict hardware requirements because that means we no longer have to rely on HTC to make proper drivers for our devices. Wish they had opted for a larger resolution than 800x480 as their max.
That's really the only two things I like about it. So until someone jailbreaks it I won't be going with a WP 7 device.
Toss3 said:
The integration of everything needed for communication into the OS itself. I hated the iPhone because of the fact that you had to launch an app every time you wanted to do something.
I also like the strict hardware requirements because that means we no longer have to rely on HTC to make proper drivers for our devices. Wish they had opted for a larger resolution than 800x480 as their max.
That's really the only two things I like about it. So until someone jailbreaks it I won't be going with a WP 7 device.
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800x400 is wayy better than anything out there.....u know what I mean...giggle.
We are excited about Silverlight and graphics.
Finally .NET is a native platform for mobile devices.
UI development is fun now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5kATjU9Voo
Zune access on my mobile. Finally down to one device in my pocket.
I like that its Microsoft, so I won't have to play with Linux partitions that Windows won't even acknowledge.
the beautiful integration of the zune software. i love my zune hd and i'd love to see my htc hd2 with the zune player, it's awsome. =D
While I'm not sure if I'll end up using wp7, one of the things that I like about it is that it seems like it appeals to the general consumer. It looks like they're focusing on it being easy to use and easy to maintain, so it looks like will really catch the eye of some people not really happy with their iphone but intimated or turned off by android.
so to put more simply, I like that it's in direct competition with the iphone for the general consumer. I also like that MS has entered the advanced feature phone market with the kins for the same reason. People disenchanted with the iphone or having tougher financial times, can fallback on the kin but still have some social features.
If you couldn't tell, I'm not really an apple fan, so any fair competition that can chip into their profits is good to me .
Uhm....it's different?
I really don't know....it seems for people like me who never use Facebook, Twitter or any other of the so-called social networking sites, WP7 offers very little.
All I see is an application launcher which uses colored rectangles instead of icons, and a general interface design using large, ugly (sans-serif) fonts atop seemingly random background images....
I just don't get it, kids these days... *waves cane angrily*
As a long time poster and developer at XDA, I'd just like to go on record as saying that my Tilt 2 is the best Windows phone I've ever owned. Fast, efficient and pretty much crash free, this phone has powered my mobile life more effectively and efficiently than any of the predecessors I've owned.
It's a shame that the Windows Mobile OS finally reached its promise only to fade away. WP will be nothing that I want a part of so I'll be moving to Android ITNF just as soon as I can find a device that can match the specs of my Tilt2 on AT&T.
Anyway, kudos to HTC for this one. You broke the mold for sure and showed me that WM really could be up to the task of a daily workhorse in more areas than I could ever have dreamed of.
completely agree. i switched to android for a spell, but came back because it wasnt quite there for an actual business tool. however i have been following it and i think with the additions of some security protocals coming in 3.0 i may make the switch. as far as my tp2 goes, its a rock solid device. sure it took a lot of tweeking but in the end this thing is a work horse and i lament the loss of such a great os. if ms put any effort into it, they wouldnt have had to do wp7 at all, and android wouldnt have gotten off the ground. but oh well, it is what it is.
Sleuth255 said:
WP will be nothing that I want a part of so I'll be moving to Android ITNF just as soon as I can find a device that can match the specs of my Tilt2 on AT&T.
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not to argue with you over your preferences but I’m not sure you have taken the time to go through and look at all that WP7 has to offer, you should check out the WP7 videos on pocketnow.com YouTube http://www.youtube.com/user/pocketnowvideo I admit at first look it made me think WTF but as I read more in to it and learn more about the new OS I get more and more excited for this new platform. Multitasking isn’t there from day one but I believe that the team behind this OS know what they are doing and I believe that feature will come to fruition soon after release.
As for the specs the tilt2 is a great phone but not when it comes to specs, WP7 has standardized specs starting well above the tilt2 specs.
I do agree that the tilt2 is a great phone and android is going in the right direction for itself, but I think you should give WP7 another chance and look at what it has to offer you and everyone else, I believe this is truly the first mobile OS with Business users, home users, gamers and developers in mind.
My biggest problems with WP7 are its locked down, abstracted filesystem, lack of multi-tasking support, and app-store only enhancement source. Taken straight from Apple, these are also many of the reasons why I'll never buy an iPhone. The fact that SD card support exists is a joke since the filesystem is "striped" onto the card rather than targeted there.
Conversely, there are already several free developer tools for Android and underneath the hood, its Linux with a rich, well-known file-system having traditional SD card support. I have many self-developed apps on my Tilt2; it was easy to develop for since WM had the same code-base architecture as windows. As a Java developer, I'm expecting a short learning curve for Android as well, not to mention a large inventory of custom ROMs to choose from.
Hate to see you leaving the WM world, I've been using your apps since my Hermes.
I must agree, the TP2 is one work horse of a device, and after a little tweaking one of the fastest most stable I've owned. I'm torn between WP7 and Android for my next device, I do know it will be something from HTC tho.
For me, the Touch Pro2 is the best mobile device up to date. I guess I'll move to Android later as WP7 isn't exactly what I where waiting for.
Shame that Rhodium hasn't got 2x ram and a snap dragon processor. This probably would enhance it's lifetime.
Shame that also Palm has gave up mobile devices. I would be really excited to see a lifted palmOS device. Like an updated Palm Pre with a qwerty keyboard... Ahhh! I would love it.
Hey guys, question for those of you who already have apps created..
So far in the app store almost every app listed there is a "text based app that list of something". All the apps are like castrated silverlight applications, rather than an application designed for the phone. (seriously who needs to pay money for an xkcd app when you can just use the browser to visit xkcd.com).
To you app developers out there is this a viable development platform.. or should I be getting myself an android or iphone instead? I mean no sockets api.. come on.
I waited a year replace my BB with windows phone 7 and now that I have it in my hands.. not quite so sure it's going to be replaced. It's a really nice phone but the API is so restrictive
As a developer, the WP7 platform is very viable to me. I'm currently working on a game and will hopefully be submitting it for certification next week. I haven't used the Silverlight stuff yet, but the XNA part of the platform is an absolute joy to use. I'm a very long-time Android user and have owned a Nexus One since it launched. Even though I'm absolutely in love with my Nexus One, I will be jumping ship to WP7 solely because of how awesome the developer tools are.
I believe the Marketplace will start getting a bit more lively over the coming weeks. Developing good apps takes time. So, all the crappy ones will get posted first. I'm not saying all the current apps on the Marketplace are crappy, just that because the platform is so new, people are still working on their good apps. As far as I can tell, the platform has definitely attracted a lot of developer interest.
I program because I enjoy doing it; it's fun to me. However, not all programming is fun. For example, programming in Java (including Android development) is just not fun to me. I'm not saying that Java is bad language or that Dalvik is a bad runtime. I just don't enjoy developing for it. WP7, on the other hand, is great fun. I just really enjoy programming for it. Even if I was the only WP7 user in the world, I would probably still mess around with the platform just because I enjoy it and it's just a pleasant experience all around. Now, I know being a fun environment to program in doesn't automatically make the platform profitable for developers to focus on. I'm hoping, though, that the ease of development will attract a large number of developers and that will, in-turn, attract users. We'll see.
The API is pretty restrictive; I'll admit that. It is something you will have to consider when choosing a phone. If you want to write an SMS backup app or a ringtone changer, WP7 is not for you. WP7 has a lot of limitations at the moment and is missing some features I would love to have (socket support in the API being a big one.) However, I still see the platform as a whole as a step in the right direction. I hope it's successful enough that Microsoft continues to focus on it for a long time so we can see where it goes.
With Blackberry and Nokia trying to keep their customers from jumping ship, Android 3, WP7, and whatever Apple does with iPhone, 2011 is looking to be a very interesting year for smartphones. I'm definitely excited to see what happens with all of the platforms.
Note: sockets are supposed to be coming. I don't know if they're coming in the next update, but I have read that they will be added. Hopefully very soon.
I have to agree with what you just said...
I've been slowly learning how to use VS2008 for a while so I could make tools/games/media players for WM6.5. The problem was that the native UI was so ugly that I had to design everything from scratch if I wanted it to look pretty. The Direct3D tools for WM6.5 were hard to use because documentation was not easy to understand.
I just started using VS2010 and the difference is night and day... I'm learning to use XNA for 3D stuff and it's just so easy. There are video podcasts available as tutorials as well as all the stuff on websites. I, too, am having fun making this game...
On the other hand, I haven't tried iOS or Android programming.