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Hey Guys
Video and Piccies
http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-and-impressions/
http://www.slashgear.com/windows-phone-7-series-hands-on-1573973/
It doesn't look to be more hardware challenging than sense + wm 6.5.3 .... I wonder if they changed the boot-loader requirements much
Well... I thing it's time to give a try to "you know who... Harry".... (iphone) LOL. First impresion, i don't like WM7.
I can't believe that they haven't had a leak of it yet
and if all apps are restricted, android here i come
I can't post links for some stupid reason, but there is a REALLY long video demo on channel 9. It is called:
First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo
just got to "channel9 do msdn dot com" and search for the above.
windows 7
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
Note how he skips questions on prompts for lockscreen.
Also how he skips out on showing any of the day to day features and how they will look.
The rep in the slashgear vid also avoids all relevant questions.
TBH consumers and certain sites bemoaned WM6.5 for crippling devices like the HD2 and TG01....yet now they are all upset that this is too simple. It is a phone for noddy.
Guys in the media, make up your mind!!!
I hope XDA can come to the rescue of this pos. eye candy only goes so far, but it offers no nutrition that we can use daily.
This is not looking one iota like a business capable device.
Terribly disappointed with Win Phone 7. It's a regular person OS. Completely built around Social Networking with very little appeal to the business user and with ZERO appeal to us tweakers and hackers.
I hate the all text interface. Looks like i'll be sticking with 6.5 for a long time to come.
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
wow what a waste of RD money. Still very slow and lagging. Looks nothing more then a UI upgrade over wmo6.
I am off to the next google phone!!
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
tleaf100 said:
goodbye winmo,hello android,have used winmo for ever,but microsoft have shot themselves in the head this time,instead of the foot as usual.
you can forget cooking roms etc for 7 series,ms are going to lock up os so that folk cannot "improve" the software,ms is bored with htc making them look stupid.
looks almost as if ms have given up on rest of the world and are looking to survive with american market.
a bing hardware button !!,there are only 15 people in the world who use bing and they all work for ms.
x-box and zune support intergrated,cor that should please a few dozen more folk.
this was meant to be the start of great new things,apple etc must be laughing them selves stupid.
series 7 to go up against iphone, winmo 6.5 for enterprise.
looks like most of the rumours of a two os system etc where right..
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Click to collapse
very good post, thanks a lot!
I'm sure, MS will have success with 7.
kenikh said:
Interesting thoughts, but I disagree. Apple isn't laughing. WinMo7 looks aimed straight at Apple’s consumer-dependent heart. So Microsoft is tightening down platform constraints and cooking ROMs may become a thing of the past...when it comes to market share, so what?
Lack of development transparency at the OS level hasn't hurt Apple’s market share. Frankly, it has helped Apple build a tightly integrated consumer appliance that doesn't water itself down by pandering to corner contingent s of users. Apple has proven that extending the platform through application development and NOT allowing customizing the platform is the current recipe for success. WinMo7 is co=opting this recipe, but still allowing far more development flexibility than Apple does.
Realize that the real play in Mobile is about the consumer experience…this is why your complaints about Bing, Zune, etc. don’t make any sense. These functions are usage enablers, just like Google Maps and the iTunes are on the iPhone. No one cares about the brand; they care what they can do with the device. If I can do everything as slickly on a WinMo7 device that I can do an iPhone, do I really care if I am using Google or Bing? End-to-end, WinMo7 is going right at the core of the iPhone consumer value prop, while providing a more open platform that far more robust than the iPhone and still enables all of the Enterprise scenarios with ActiveSync and Exchange Policy integration
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform.
While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kenikh said:
Sure, WinMo7 is no Android; in terms of open source code or ROM customization, Android will be the new king. But WinMo7 doesn't need to be and if anything, WinMo 6.5 has proved that an open platform isn't the ultimate deciding factor for the success of a mobile platform. While Android will be the most flexible platform moving forward, this doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the ultimate market winner...The only markets this kind of platform is guaranteed to win are those of corner case users like a ROM chef or open source code guru.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gotta agree with this.
I Personally dont know what to say about winmob 7. First time viewing the video was a SHOCK. It was soo radically different from what im used to looking at on 6.5 and 6.5.3.
It was nothing like sense either.
I wont say if I hate it or like it yet till I use it, or a zune HD since its nothing like anything Iv used.
It appears as if the business user focus is gone, but perhaps they will show somehow bring it back when they further demo it nxt month.
I will say one thing about winmobil 7, after years of using 6,6.1,6.5 I feel more comfortable using android then win7.
I feel windows Mobil 7 will be wm6.5's successor only in name.
I don't understand what y'all are talking about saying that this will not work for business users?!?! Microsoft is going to have functionality for all of its core business functions (i.e. word, excel, powerpoint, exchange, etc...). Am I to understand that just because a phone has the capability to appeal to the business persons life not just their work, means that it is not business capable?
Is there anything saying that the UI of a, "business" phone has to be bland, boring and lacking any modern interface? Does it have to look like windows 98?
Anyways, sign me up for the pre-order of this thing! I hope the Dell Mini 5 comes with WMSS!!!
Am I the only one who also doesnt give a frazzle about social networking?
I prefer real life updates from people who can be bothered to text or call me and engage in conversation, and I do likewise.
I must be too old fashioned...wait, I'm 23....sign me up to the care home!
Reason why i didnt think it was a business capable device was because it seemed to be so slim on features...and hell we cannot even see the settings screens, or have a way to set someone's callerID picture????
I did notice a mention of 'policies' so perhaps that is the way for XDA to get around WMP7 and its protections.
But yes, most people have depressingly low levels of intelligence and cannot be bothered to find anything like XDA or tract technical waters. Hence iphone, and WMP7 and every other dumbass idea will get market traction.
And it gets traction because it LOOKS finished. WM6.5 never looked finished because even if you made it look perfect you would still know of something else to tweak.
With iphone and WMP7 the philsophy to get market acceptance is simply to lock it down so that people learn to accept what they have whatever it is, to look at the visuals, give up wanting to tweak/personalise/fix, and use the phone....
oh wait...that's almost commendable
Basically - give someone something unfixable and in time they will learn to love it
Ouch. Frankly... that hurts.
I'm not at all a fan of that kind of mashup UI. It looks just like a big non-appealing mess to me. I love Sense, and to me that's what it should have been. W7P seems to be all about a very limited set of tasks aggregated around social networking and stuff that I don't give a damn about.
And to add to it,
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Screen resolution, aspect ratio, CPU speed, memory, you name it; it's all mandated by Microsoft. Even the button configuration: Start, back, search. That's it. No deviations. Speaking of deviations - no more custom UIs, Microsoft doesn't allow them.
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So we have no hope of actually getting something different. Sigh...
They didn't even talk or show about the app concept, only core functionality, so it's hard to see what we can expect. So far, it seems that it won't be soon that I'll move away from WM6.5, except that...
http://www.osnews.com/story/22877/Microsoft_Unveils_Windows_Phone_7_Series said:
Windows Phone 7 Series is a clean break. There is no backwards compatibility at all.
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That sucks VERY VERY badly. Firstly, the ~8 years of WM development and the great apps it has led to are LOST. Start from scratch again. We're again in the situation with a "dead" platform stuck with limited core funtionality for 2 years until developers start putting out interesting stuff for it.
But where it sucks even more, is that from today on WM6.5 is pretty much dead. Who's going to continue developing apps for something that will disappear in 6 months? So those who will decide to stay with WM6.5 will have to do with what they have now...
I also can't help but feel sorry for some at this point, like Schaps who's about to release something great after years of development... 3 months before the whole platform is wiped.
W7P sucks.
Hopefully by the time I need a new phone android will be mature enough, seeing as after 2 years it only just begins getting decent apps...
this winmo 7 is a s**t!!
As a user of a ZuneHD I am extremely excited about WMP7. The UI on the ZuneHD seems a little strange at first, but once you use it you'll be amazed at how efficient it really is. I think this also bodes well for App development for the ZuneHD.
As far as business use, apparently many of you did not watch the entire keynote this morning. They demonstrated how WMP7 can integrate both your business and personal data while still providing indication of which area the data belongs to. There is also an entire "hub" dedicated to business apps like Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.
For me, this is much much better than anything I expected.
People kept complaining about how little Windows Mobile has changed over the years. I'm glad the new OS turned out like this. Great change compared to the drab legacy that has been dragging on. Also I'm a huge fan of the lack of gloss in the UI and heavy text stylization. Love the Zune HD inspired design and I'm glad I didn't get a Zune HD, so that now I can get a WP7S phone next year.
Also to those worried about settings, page, give the guys a break. They announced the freaking thing TODAY. Over time, we'll see more of WP7.
WoW...everyone is quick to judge !????
I'm a PC..haha...no seriously. Looking at what has come into light in the pulic domain is a fantastic idea / product / OS (yes okay its a zune with phone features).
Everyone who likes windows mobile will have to change thier ways....just like they did with the OS platform like windows 95 / 98 / 2000 / XP / Vista and now Windows 7 and now its the mobile sides turn.
Out with the old 5.0, 6.0, 6.1, 6.5 etc, in with the new....and its a good thing its totally different.
people here may complain that "OH NO...no more TouchFLO".....so WHAT ! my fav company is HTC, and yes there will be an interface which HTC will develop (well they already have...hehe)....just hold on to your pants people....its going to be SUPER ....we just saw the OS and thats it.....MIX10 show will provide you all the details and whats to offer...hello Killer Apps!
What you see in all the videos is an unfinished OS product...there is a reason for this; Samsung, LG, ACER, HTC etc will all have thier input and style, however the base functions stay the same...(Zune, Pictures, XboX,
I can tell you the Phone Dialer (man its ugly) , that WILL change. TXT messages, that will change and some other things....which everyone will see very soon
in the words of a wise guy: http://www.moviesoundclips.net/movies1/transformers/shallow.wav
+ Que PPC said:
Time to start saving funds... to buy a new baby capable for WP7S
Hey flar!!! make this **** A News on the XDA portal!!!!
new era for XDA developers! hope all the big masters are now thinking DAMN! this is freaking cool!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdDAeyy1H0A
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read some of the other WM7 threads, well.... not so much "cool", but rather there is a big feeling of disappointment. As I said in a different post, it looks as if a Zune and an Ipod gave birth to.... this thing. If you have the urgent need to let the world know that you are in the middle of taking a big dump, then this is the phone for you
Below is just my opinion, and take it as such.
Windows 7 dissapoints me beyond belief. In fact, teverything about it is the "worst case scenario".
<rant>
1. Home page.. I can sum it up in "WTF". The home page that takes up about 80% of the screen (so even big screens look gimped, small and shifted to the side), with a huge area on right and up completely wasted for nothing. Ugly plain-colored squares, with no design consistency (big, small, long, tall) with pieces of information that make no sense.
2. Social networking - as for me, I really don't give a flying turd about my neighbor's ugly kid drawing an image of a bird on the wall with his drool. Nor do I care that much about viewing hundreds of pictures of my friend visiting his grandma. Thanks for covering my home screen with that.
3. Xbox - I don't even have an xbox, nor do I plan to buy one. Neither do most of the business-oriented people who buy a PDA. And even if I did, would I really be so obsessed about my "avatar" or "points" or whatever they use, that I need it on my home page?
4. Emailing - the heart of a PDA. For some people, even more important than the calling itself. By looking at the presentation videos 7's email system is complete trash. It gives you no real "sense" for the inbox, there is no good view to browse your emails properly. Swiping through pages to see "flagged" "unread" on different screens creates a feeling that you're not getting the whole picture, and you're missing stuff. Besides, it has no good integration with contacts that HTC's Sense provides pretty darn well.
5. Interface in general - animation effects blow. They are kind-of OK for today's standards, but when 7 is released, they will already be boring and plain. They are not looking forward, the "flow" of it is already outdated and will be completely destroyed by any new interface that Android or especially Apple will no-doubt deliver in near future. Besides, how awesome it is to see parts of words all the time? "Peop" turns into "ople", so if you slide left-and-right real fast, you can actually see a whole word..... freaking idiotic.
6. Customization... I'm just speechless. This is the only thing that I could raise as WM's, perhaps, only advantage over Android and iPhone. Now they are officially going over to the Apple's way of treating customers like money-packed down-syndrome drooling kids that fall into a seizure when they hear words "cab" or "tweak". After hanging in xda-developers for so long, and writing my own stuff for the PDA, this alone is way more than enough to make me never even look at WM devices again.
7. "Copy and paste" and "multitasking".... I cannot believe that there is even a controversy over WM device having those 2 features... I don't even know what else to say about this. Insane.
Microsoft is obviously a huge Apple fanboy now. They are accepting their market strategies and their development practices and are scared ****less to look ahead and develop something brilliant.
At this point, with current info, WM7 is nothing more than a bad, extremely poorly designed iPhone interface mod. It's already outdated, already looks inefficient, boring and just waiting to be forgotten. Heck, age-old HTC Home plugin looks way better than WM7, and is actually more useful for everyday tasks.
</rant>
Flame away.
Sadly I couldn't agree more... I had been waiting for the mytical complete revamping of the Windows Mobile OS, and when the first real info came out in Spain, I was stoked by what they were presenting (although I couldn't understand the oddly offset homescreen squares)... This week has been nothing but disappointment after disappointment It seems they took all the bad plays out of the iphone playbook (which apple has mostly since corrected) and decided to repeat them. I was hoping for an windows 'iphone' that righted all the wrongs of Apple:
-Controlled Interfaces (both in Syncronizing information with PC and in application installs)
-Real Copy and Paste
-File System
-Use as a USB flash Drive when connected to computer
-Removeable media
Windows Mobile, was ugly and slow, but useful once you knew it. I just feel now that this will be pretty, but no better than a 1G iphone
i dont disagree with any of your points
Yes, I also agree. Microsoft has just threw out everything, that was keeping Windows Mobile different, usable and customizable. I use copy&paste, multitasking and today plugins every day and I can't live without it. I won't use Windows Phone 7, I'd better wait if somebody makes a mobile phone running full desktop Windows (I think it will be someday, now we have HD2 with 1GHz CPU and we are also able to boot Ubuntu on HTC devices).
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around. I bet in a few years, Android will become the NEW Windows Mobile (and I mean that in a bad way )
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
WhyBe said:
Microsoft is mitigating all of the flaws of Windows Mobile. You anti-WP7 guys seem to be forgeting that the WM platform was quickly becoming a marketplace failure. Whether you like iPhone or not, there are plenty of things Apple did right (which is why they're kicking a** right now). If you want to call modern smartphone users dumb, then you have to realize that the entire general public is "dumb" and "dumb" people is where the money is. Tech geeks are just not a large enough market to build a platform around.
I for one, love the way MS is now focused on user-experience and integration (hubs) as opposed to a bunch of unrelated apps. I was wishing for that long before I knew what a iPhone or WP7 was.
Apple's idea of tying together all of it's products is a winning strategy. MS is the only company that can top Apple at this particular strategy: Zune, XBox, Office, Exchange, FaceBook (MS owns a huge share) and etc.. They have already opened up the platform for development even though the phone isn't even released yet.
MS seems to be really focused on people that actually use their phones to enhance their lives, as opposed to people using their lives to enhance their phones. Good job MS!
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Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
DarkDvr said:
Whether MS is taking the most profitable approach or not, is a different topic. I do agree that majority of users are "dumb" and freak out at anything that takes more than 5 clicks to do. However, I HIGHLY doubt they can catch on to Apple and give simple users a better experience than iPhone already gives. If we consider the release timeframe, and high possibility of iPhone 2, MS has picked a wrong battle and will fail miserably while we all laugh our asses off at the fugly interface that WM7 has.
However, I'm speaking from my own perspective, and what *I* want and need in a phone. Fortunately for me, WM, even having worst interface ever (thankfully fixed by HTC), still catered to all my tweaking/developing needs. I'd even say to the needs of the majority of people at xda - this is a developer forum after all, not an Apple fan-club.
And from that I can assume that the approach that MS is taking will make "advanced" users like me and people here at xda to feel like MS has failed them and abandoned them, turning to "dumb users". And that never feels good.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
WhyBe said:
I actually love the new WP7 interface...giant words, big active tiles and all. I had Sense in my TP2 for about a month and finally decided that while it was pretty looking, it was not efficient at all. To much pressing and swiping to get to where I needed to go. Back to Titanium for me.
I think in due time, there will be a hacking community around WP7 just like this one...maybe even THIS one
Advanced users can fend for themselves. Isn't this how XDA grew? I'm sure it'll happen again with WP7.
iPhone 2 ? Naw, I think Apple has shot it's load and is just going to work on building and maintaining the market it has. I don't expect anything revolutionary out of Apple for a while (at least as far as smartphones go). I don't think they'll do what MS did and ditch the old iPhone for a new iPhone platform. MS was sort of forced to ditch WM if they wanted to compete.
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Well, in BEST case scenario (for MS), that's what will happen. However, for me, that's wishful thinking.
Will there be WM7 hacks? Yeah, of course. Question is, how easy/available/useful they will be. WM6 platform, even with all its deficiencies, is a nice and easy platform to tweak/expand. So far, WM7 looks to be complete opposite of that (just look at their idea of branding and marketplace), and few hacks that will be released won't make up for anything. Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
DarkDvr said:
Especially when 90% of all developers will switch to a more friendly platform (perhaps even Android).
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I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
WhyBe said:
I, personally would want to develop for a platform where I can turn a profit. Is Android at that stage yet (I'm asking, I don't know). If Android is so open and customizable the way WM was/is, then inevitably it's going to suffer the same fate as WM.
It seems that MS is making WP7 very developer friendly. What's wrong with developing for WP7 ?
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Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
DarkDvr said:
Android isn't going anywhere. It may not be as explosive as iPhone, but it's here to stay, if google does it right. And google pretty much always does everything right.
Problem with programming for WM7, and I'm going on a limited info that's curretly available, is that MS is putting down a "draconic" ((c) engadget) restrictions on anything that comes onto WM7 devices. Everything has to be within standards and everything has to go through the marketplace. In fact, reviewers are saying that methods that MS is implementing on WM7 infrastructure are much more strict that even Apple's. That spells "BAD NEWS" for me in big, bold letters.
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This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than endlessly Googling to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
WhyBe said:
This is the only way to ensure that the "dumb" consumers get a great experience. The average consumer doesn't want to tweak and figure out things. They want to quickly download intuitive apps that just work. Perhaps MS will be able to minimize "garbage apps" (though there are bound to be some). Look at the success of the App store. I think part of it's success is that their app store wasn't so fragmented like the WM market is. One place to download and purchase all apps for the platform (straight to the phone at that!) is a lot easier than Googling for an hour to find what you need on some random site. Again, this is catering to the "dumb" people and not the geeks.
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Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
DarkDvr said:
Yep, I won't argue that simplicity of use is paramount. However, I do see a trend of separation between regular users and developers.
And, although I do agree that developers seeking profit will develop on the most used platform, there is a also a huge factor of developers not wanting to use a device that limits their desire for customization.
I guess the question is which of those factors will overpower another. And will we have to buy 2 devices - one for "work", one for the "soul"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
WhyBe said:
I think the industry is headed towards the user-friendly way of doing things. Hackers will fend for themselves (as always). Smartphones are only going to get more popular to the point where they are as common as the regular cell phone. A typical WM device could never support that kind of market. Only devices like WP7, iPhone, Pre and etc. will be appealing to this huge market of non-geeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
DarkDvr said:
And that's excellent. However, that doesn't mean that the device should be "locked" and limited to modification. The idea behind the android is probably the most appealing to me - it's a very user-friendly interface that is completely open to any modification, including the end-user modification like moving stuff around, throwing widgets on the screen, etc.
In my mind, my perfect WM7 would be:
1. Build on a new platform, now the WinCE crap that gave us WM6.
2. Be very open to modification and adjustment, hopefully even moreso than WM6.
3. Not be locked in any way, allowing advanced users to tinker with devices.
4. For end users, come with an excellent user interface straight from the box. Openness to tinkering and ease of use are NOT mutually exclusive, they go hand-in-hand very well.
5. Platform absolutely must support all options available - meaning things like SDcard support, copy/paste, DEFINITELY multitasking (WTF, back to stone ages??), etc. Even though first phones might not have it all, there should be an existing support for it, so that companies/developers can take advantage of them.
I guess my ranting is due to the fact that Microsoft saw "gold" in Apple's ideas and went overboard with that. Along the way they completely ignored to include the potential into the device. Think of the military - you create, say, a tank - even if it's super-awesome today, if there is no room for potential improvements - it's a pile of useless metal in several years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, we don't know what's truly under the hood of WP7 yet. We know it has multitasking, it is just highly restricted. Copy and paste can be implemented within the app (MS'es alternative to C&P seem pretty slick though). I don't see WP7 as a blatant copy of Apple, MS just acknowledged some winning points of the iPhone platform and followed suit and improved upon it (that's smart business actually). I think MS concept of the OS is far more advanced than what iPhone delivers. I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es. Android sort of reminds me of WM.
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. Even HTC Sense "broke" alot of the things I was used to in the standard WM interface (MS Voice Command and PhonEx just didn't work properly or consistently, for example). God only knows what would "break" if I installed some other WM shell.
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Well, everyone is entitled to an opinion. I don't share yours though:
WhyBe said:
I think the Pre and WP7 are the first of the "new style" of OS'es.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see anything that's "new style" about it. Cut words, ugly squares, "pushable" buttons look identical to the labels, which creates confusion.. etc etc.
WhyBe said:
Again, I think all of the customization and openness hinders the platform because you end up with so many incompatibilities and inconsistencies in the user experience. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
WhyBe said:
I love the premise in WP7 that apps are supposed to work together. I don't know how this is going to play out in the real world, but if this is facilitated at the OS level, I don't see why it shouldn't be a great feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
WhyBe said:
Some of the so-called Apple limitations are actually advantages for them (single form factor, only one App store highly regulated, lo-res graphics for speed, locked-in iPod/iTunes audience, no multitasking to possibly damage the user-experience).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
WhyBe said:
If an experience on a platform is going to be consistent and pleasurable, it has to be highly controlled. You can't have a free-for-all and expect everything to just work together nicely. WM and Android are perfect examples of free-for-all, let's see how they do in the current market.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Openness of current WM platform is about the only plus it has, not its drawback. I think that's pretty much established.
Besides, as I've said before, you don't have to pick between a smooth experience and openness for customization. WM7 could have an excellent setup right from the box, if you like what they've made, even maybe the one they have now. Nobody says that at the same time it cannot have support for developer's imagination. Nobody besides MS's analytics who decided that copying Apple will bring them a big buck. Honestly, no, it won't.
chiks19018 said:
Locked down OS?
Time for the next generation of hackers.
Get out the sharpening stone and hone your edge.
A system is meant to be broken, not remain intact.
Go XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
>.< That's not the point.
DarkDvr said:
So it's better not to have any at all? It's like saying "oh, we should have just 3 models of cars on the market, so that everything's consistent and buyers won't be confused". Openness and customization only help any platform greatly, it doesn't create incompatibilities and inconsistencies. Bad programmers do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All consumer cars have the exact same interface. Steering, acceleration and brakes...
You're missing a word.. "I love the premise in WP7, that MICROSOFT'S apps are supposed to work together." We all know how bad their software can be, and now u won't even have a chance to fix it. Sit around for years, hoping that new version will fix the bugs and not introduce a mirriad of others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software. It's always worked for me. Now the third-party stuff...that's a different story. If things like social networking and cloud computing are implemented on the OS level (instead in the app), it will be easier for third party apps to work in conjunction. Bing on the OS level will be a lot better than a Bing app. Same for Voice Command (if MS uses it).
Dude you're so anti-choice. I have a very different view. Choice is what creates competition and improvement. It's what drives the progress. Single form-factors, locked software, penalties for tinkering (jailbreak) - it all hinders the progress, it cannot possibly be better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This philosophy is failing WM and Android.
WhyBe said:
I haven't had experience with BAD MS software.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you've never used Windows ME or anything before Windows 98.
Let's just agree to disagree =)
Does anyone think that the iPhone os and Android have helped kill the "smartfone"?
It seems these os's are intended for mainstream use, kind of like the symbian os a few years back where kid's, mom's and dad's used a nokia or even a motorola. While the business or tech heads used windows mobile for PC-like functionality.
Microsoft have dumbed down their w7 phone software to the point my grandmother, or 10 yr old brother could and would be sold one of these (as long as he had cash lol), in hope to compete against these new mainstream os's that are extreamly competitive already and not the business or tech-head market the os seemed to be initially intended for.
It seems the software design is focused on people updating their facebook status or tweeting that they are taking a dump, and not really using them for work purposes at all.
With windows phone 7 am i going to be able to work with basic word, excel and pdf docs? Will I be able to use remote desktop or setup multiple outlook email accounts? Will alot of the programs i use on pc be available in windows 7 phone format? I cant seem to find much info, all the reviews ive seen seem to concentrate on its "social networking features", or show its "image gallery" and uninspired UI.
A smartfone is suppose to be a mobile phone offering advanced capabilities. The iPhone and Android have pretty much become mainstream os's, so i personally wouldnt call them advanced devices, they are simply the 2009-10 standard device, a touchscreen multimedia phone with 3g connections. And windows 7 phone looks like its the same. I think Apple and Google have taken 2 steps forward and microsoft have taken 1 back. Leaving us with no real advanced mobile phone or os as they are all now on par, with android looking the most positive of these mainstream os's.
So if its not aimed at the business or hi-tech market, what are we going to buy? I wonder if we will all be trying to hack the windows mobile 6.5 os onto these new devices in the near future to get some multitasking business features and PC-like functionality back? Im sure it would run great on the new hardware hehe.
You are quite right IMHO, but there is simple reason for that.
MS was targetting PocketPC platform, giving "full PC in your pocket"-like experience. This was for techs, administrators, but not for teenagers eagerly wanting to touch their phones without stylus, browsing internet, having thousands of animations AND HAVING IT SIMPLE. With Apple and later Google coming out with platform that actually allows you to simply and naturally touch the screen with your finger without using stylus, do simple things simple way (and disabling the hard things, because why would teenager need eg PuTTY right, for security and having out of box experience "it works" without installing ton of software, going through registry etc), MS's sales are slowly moving towards 0. And now, MS is targetting those teenagers, giving them all Facebook integrated in contacts, with simple UI and powerful base for making rich applications and games.
That part is good, that MS restarted whole Phone experience, giving minimal requirements so no more sluggish phones (just look on even HD2, needing patching driver for GPU and so on), creating whole UI rendered on DirectX, having new kernel, thus having it all like.. superfast.
On the other hand, they locked it down as hell. No teenager (except me ) wants to go through registry, they just want to have ton of apps on marketplace, and ton of games they can play. No manual googling for stuff, direct access from phone with cool UI. That's it.
I wanted to say something more, but I forgot what I wanted lol.
// ohh remembered:
Let's skip the definition "Smartphone is PocketPC without touchscreen", and say how do I feel difference between Smartphone and PocketPC.
I see smartphone as being something stupid with some internal APIs, integration option. (iOS, Android)
And I see PocketPC as being full PC in my pocket. Because of screen size, CPU power, RAM etc, it ofc has to be redesigned a lot. But the main idea "do what you want anyhow you want" must be there. It isn't in case of Smartphone (WinMo, partially Android).
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
krjcook said:
No smartphones are getting more advanced. Yes the interfaces are about eye candy now, but I'd take that over the old WM6 anyday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. The OSs might have been dumbed down, but at the core, it's all what applications you use to run on them. I am way more productive with my iPhone than I ever have been an other smartphone before then, and I will be with WP7 more so with it's amazing Office integrations
can you elaborate on the office integrations? Are there new office features that we havent seen on mw6.5?
If you are more productive on your iPhone than on wm6.5 are you using it for business/pc-like features or for social multimedia use?
Im just disapointed that they seem to have locked down the device, dumbed the UI to a point it actually looks like a really bad skinning attempt to conserve ram lol. The first pics i saw of the w7phone i thought must have been someones photoshop attempt at a joke. I lol'd then got a look of concern on my face as I realised they were real pics.
They are trying to enter into a mainstream teenage market already accomodated by the iPhone and now android. Leaving the traditional "pc in your pocket-business user" market with a void.
I personally dont tweet, dont use facebook, and would never use a xbox live service while im taking notes on my device in a meeting. I regularly work on my home/work pc through remote desktop. Use the calendar to set appointments, browse multiple websites at once and generally run 2-3 apps at the same time. I regularly use word and excel, and always sync my business/personal emails from by pc each morning.
I suppose the question is will wm7 be right for me? I would have preferred them to concentrate on new touch friendly business applications, handwriting recognition and smarter gui, not concentrate on social networks and games which make it seem to much like a teenagers phone. If these features i need are there that will be great and ill consider it. If not I think ill have to look into being converted into an androidian and lay my pc in my pocket to rest in a safe place as one of the last of its kind
Many of us wonder how it will be.
From the sales point of view, you have to simplify and make more eye candy
to increase your sales 10 or 100 times.
Just count how many Communicators Nokia sold, or HTC TyTn II's
and compare to iPhone.
But it's possible that following the smartphone's expansion
users beeing more conscious will want more functionality
which will be brought back........
I'm very happy with better cameras and screens though.
And hardware became so strong too.
So not all is lost.
THE ONLY QUESTION is if Microsoft is willing to bring all those missing things
or not........................
I pray for the resurrection of the PPC!
If I had this
Vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mej7sf4uonI
If it was the shape and size of the HD2, I would be in love again!
Yes it would appar that MS is moving to a more of a "walled garden" approach
yeah that sony in hd2 form factor would be great, i was hoping the tp3 would have been a similar device. Bring back the ppc! hehe.
anhyeuemmaimai said:
"walled garden"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Otherwise known as prison
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More like safety. I'll keep my guaranteed updates through one provider thank you very much.
I dont see why you are complaining about the path that manufacturers are going today.
It is easy to know WHY they make advanced devices simpler to use, (to get a broader consumer base).
And I must admit I will miss the usability of winmo, but when you think about it, who uses the original UI of that OS? It's all skinned for eyecandy and simplicity to the end user.
So I would like you to see the bright side of this: The HTC TP2 will cost next to nothing very soon (well its darn right cheap already!). And it seems it has all you need!
For taking notes who needs 1ghz, right?
So I consider it a win-win situation for you, cheap phones with the functionality you require
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App
The concerns are understandable, but I wouldn't say MS is abandoning the business user. In fact, I would state they are allowing the business user to encompass the newer business model also which includes facebook, twitter and other social mediums. Since you don't use either (directed to the OP) you may have missed that nearly every large corporation has a Facebook page and many are using Twitter to stay in touch with their user base.
The business model of marketing has changed dramatically in the last 5 years and I wouldn't give the credit to either the Iphone or Android, but to the social marketing that occurs with mediums such as Myspace, Facebook, Twitter, etc... I must admit that I fought being a part of these as did many of my friends (ages 35-42), but truth is they work great when it comes to actually being in contact with each other and for a business, it's customer base. Word of mouth has always been the true back bone of these businesses growing and these social mediums all take word of mouth and expand it's power by the millionth.
I applaud MS for actually creating a brand new ui and os to take advantage of both. If you are really concerned with your ability to be productive on the machine look at the many videos we've seen so far. You still have outlook, the office suite, etc... I am unsure if remote desktop will remain available but I believe it will in WP7.
The people who are left out are us nerds. The systems are lockdowned for now on and we get left out the loop, but we buy less phones than the clones do even if we are the reason these things work out properly with all of our experimenting, rom chefs and willingingness to beta test any and everything that comes our way.
ok, so I'm enjoying my Desire's speed and stability compared to my WiMo HTC Touch HD. I can still use Word and Excell and synchronize email and calendars, etc. But there is one thing I am missing: handwriting recognition. Now people will tell me to use Swype (which I am) but it's still not the same thing. With the stylus and handwriting recognition I used to sit in meetings and take notes for real. Now it somehow does not work as well and I also feel a little like a joke swyping. I am not much of a poking-through-the-registry kind of guy but I did like having complete access to the file system, being able to move any file where I wanted it, and so on. But I guess this is just the way this world goes. IN the meantime, I am sticking with android for now. It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
^ I can agree to that. Not the swype part though, its fast as hell.
If i had to choose between windows mobile 6 or wp7, i have already made my decision
I will surely choose wp7, not because wm 6 is bad, but because wp7 works fluid. And I need my daily amount of eyecandy
tudork said:
It seems that windows phone 7, although it does look great, I love the look, I just cannot part with copy and paste. There is more to this world than tweeting and facebooking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
addicus said:
Definetly find me in agreement with you on this point. I won't be even thinking about it until copy and paste come along.
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Click to collapse
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Grassy
devis said:
Otherwise known as prison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean a court yard. One which you can freely enter or freely leave. Seriously if the first thing that pops into your head when thing of walled gardens are prisons...I'd talk to someone about that...
I think most people complaining now are not thinking long term.
Yes the OS is simpler and 'less' business and PPC focused. But. Think of it like this.
Start with simple yet powerful OS with enough feature to hook some power-users and easy enough for the average consumer to pick it up.
Now this is where the strategy plays out over the years to come. You train you base customer with update that over time make the OS more powerful and more feature rich much like PPC that they don't even know they're using a smartphone because you have "trained" them.
Sound familiar. It was the iPhone tactic from when it was released. Everyone knows the feature the iPhone4 has now could have existed years ago but they are "training" their user base.
Analogy time: If someone handed you an Indie car (PPC) and said race it you would be so confused by all the buttons and controls and not know how to handle it effectively.
But.
If they handed you a Suzuki Swift (WP7 (No idea why I thought of this car: P)) and said they will teach you to drive you'll have no worries buying from them again and buying a slightly (updates) more powerful car next time.
chaoscentral said:
I think the only time I have ever used copy and paste on my Vibrant is when I had to put in my unlock code for Launcher Pro. Other than that I really don't use it on a daily basis.
I think my more frequent use is just to clear a text im writing because they texted back and it changed my opinion, so I just cut all to delete it lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am a writer/musician so I copy and paste words a lot. I also copy/paste links, etc... when I am sending them out to people on twitter/facebook.
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels. I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used. Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
The shiny will wear off soon enough.
Both have their place, but WM is a bit more flexible and more universally useful ATM, especially an HTC Sense WM device like the HD2.
IMO.
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
deadwrong03 said:
what i liked about windows mobile is whats preventing me from saying wp7 is better.
I know the ui is much more smoother and lag free but i miss being able to wifi tether, use my device as a usb mass storage device, and being able to download albums, rar files, and everything from the web to my storage card on the go and update my library all without the use of a computer, i dont like how wp7 is dependent upon the computer like the iphone is. And i like being able to use the file explorer on windows mobile to manage my files.
i love wp7 and im getting one as soon as verizon launches it but those are some key features that are slightly holding wp7 back
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then you need to remember one thing, Microsoft has upgraded WM 6.5 though several years. So what do you expect on the OS that has just been published for about few months?
Now is time for Microsoft to listen to their user and consider about it. Mango Update look quite bright to me...
Purple11 said:
If you look at my previous posts I am been a regular basher of WP7 for last 4 months.. but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
Purple11 said:
I dont even have the Nodo update yet on my phone, but I still love this phone more than anything other I have ever used.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Purple11 said:
Great piece of technology, Zune Pass, Marketplace and all Microsoft services run very smooth and just perfect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Purple11 said:
I love how quickly I can switch back from Application to another with such a ease. Its great for Multi-tasking. Microsoft has also added little things which makes its very comfortable to use, like when I plug out the earphones, the music player automatically stops and dosents star blaring in phone speakers.
The proximity sensors on Samsung Omnia 7 works great with no fail. So no more of me accidentally taping on screen while on call.. its very handy, every touch phone should have it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
Purple11 said:
Everything on Windows Phone is smooth and bug free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
Purple11 said:
It has made buying so easy by billing it straight to my AtnT bill, that I no longer bother to get a 'crack' file and just buy the software if I like the trial. Gone is the software piracy problem, it will kill websites like ppcwarez...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Purple11 said:
Listening, exploring and buying music is such a nice experience, nothing like that exists in Windows Mobile and could not have been implemented using that platform.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
Purple11 said:
Microsoft did a great work on Windows Phone and I have found new respect for people working their. Congratulations and Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. Try show it an iphone, it'll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
Purple11 said:
PS - If only I could disable the Search Button sometimes and had a little longer battery life it would be great.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
hungry81 said:
But you haven't OWNED a android phone or a current iphone.
You state in another post you have been using a 4 or 5 year old winmo phone followed by an old clamshell for 1 year.
Are you sure this time? I'ld hate for you to change your mind AGAIN
Most modern smart phones have working proximity sensors and music player/headset settings
if you consider a half finished operating system bug free... by all means
PRAISE THE LORD, he has seen the light, The sinner has been redeemed. WP7 Set him straight and it can work for you too. Nothing more heartwarming than a indecisive ex pirate leech turn over a new leaf simply beacuse he is too lazy/unable to find cracked software for his device. MOAR MORAL LESSONS PLEASE
Thanks for your educated opinion. No way were there ever marketplaces for Winmo...... Except for the fact theree was. And yes installing .cab files was so difficult, If you were inept.
How heartwarming. well WP7 fanbois your stuck with it now. try show it an iphone itll prob fall in love with that and leave you guys alone.
BUT U SAYD NO BUGZ LOLZ :cry
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha it was fun to read.
Purple11 said:
...but now that I bought one and see everything in it, I think its an excellent interface and a great piece of innovative technology that surpasses Android and Iphone at many levels...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed... I saw YouTube vids on the first looks at WP7 and thought it looked dull and boring, but after flashing my HD2, the phone is now slick, smooth, alive... I notice everything I do is quicker...
I show my iGroan and Haemorrhoid mates the bing search, pizza, pick a store, get directions... Blows them away!
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
And you can't say that's only because the system is new, because as I read in this forum, WP7 is based on windows CE like WM, so nothing revolutionary.
you absolutely can't give props to the marketplace!
With my WM, I go to the internet site or eMule and download every App I need, without having problems to find them with very much good freeware.
With the Marketplace, almost every App has a price, maybe little, but I don't like to pay for something that in the previous platform was for free.
So why does WP7 fail in almost every aspect??? I'm shure, its because they want to stop piracy, so they quit almost every bridge to it (I can't find any other explanation).
No filesystem, no registry editor, no custom setups and even no flash in IE.
Now the biggest question: why do I own a WP7???? The answer is, because Iphone is to expensive and It sucks even more, Blackberry and nokia are not made for such multimedia, and Android, its more like a fashion, maybe its here today but not tomorrow, and WM 6,5 is no longer supported by new apps.
I hope, WP7 will start to live, will get better, and more user-friendly with better Apps support, downloadable directly from the internet site.
My biggest fear, is that what happened to WM, will happen to our main computer, in Windows 8
XxAndrexX said:
hungry81 is right in what he's saying.
If you make a new OS, its all about to add new stuff, and update the old stuff, but without quitting anything!!!!
Like windows did, take a look at it, in Win7 we actually have DOS, and the very old win95 Theme, with a very good backward compatibility.
Thats a good job, and I was hoping that microsoft would go on with this positive actitude in mobile devices.
But no, they quit almost everything, everything that made WM so great and different from any other dumbass users OS like Iphone and Blackberry.
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Click to collapse
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
nicksti said:
You know what happens to companies that make products that have all these wonderful features that nerds/geeks/techies love but no one else does?
I guess it is to be expected on a geek website that many members are upset with Windows Mobile going from a toolbox to a box of crayons, but somewhere along the way you should be forward-thinking enough to see it had to be done.
When it all boils down to it, in general iOS is better than all the other mobile OSes. Not because it can be more or do more, but because it is the most popular. Imagine if iOS came on several different handsets. So it is not for every specific person but in general it is well suited for most people.
Get busy livin' or get busy dyin'. Microsoft moved on, and I think everyone else should. Some people come into the Windows Mobile forum on a daily basis only intent on bashing the system. Microsoft wants Windows Phone to be the next iOS, not the next Android. Restrictions down to the number of physical buttons, no intended removable storage, and Zune dependent.
And you know the writing is on the wall for Android. What happens when more and more new devices come out with locked bootloaders? What happens when Google starts to tighten up the controls in the system? Business is about being a copycat. 10% innovation, 90% follow the leader.
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Click to collapse
hey man you got me wrong. Read accurately.
Microsoft HAD to move to that "innovating" platform, but without quitting the old one.
giving some kind of connection to the old windows mobile options.
So everyone would be happy, the new bunch of stupid IOS-cloned users, and the old freaky nerds
but I'm shure, its for some anti-piracy reason...
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
doministry said:
One of the reasons why this WP7 is not selling so well
Is it is limited in many areas.
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Click to collapse
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
argentocruz said:
.. Blows them away!
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My WP totally blows all my Iphone and Android users.. they are like 'WTF!!?? This is so nice.:
Lol at this thread... OP, you're entirely right, and it is a wonderful OS. It can only improve from here.
And at the usual people I won't even call by name... Go get some sun on your skins.
The King has no clothes on, http://tinyurl.com/687omad
I sold my WP7 for £300 poor poor beta OS, dual booting my HD2, WM6.5 and Android Gingerbread best of both worlds.
rhory said:
I sold my WP7 for £300
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man, you are a lucky guy........or have you LOST 300????
XxAndrexX said:
another thing that I didn't mention, is that everyone is saying that WP7 is so easy to use.
I don't like that interface.
I'll tell you why.
I updated from WM6.1 to WM6.5 and I must say, I hated that start menu so much that I went back to WM6.1
Ok, perhaps it's fingerfriendly, for some unsensible fingers.
but I had a hard and frustrating time, finding my apps and setups.
That's because there is no folder rule, something that made so popular windows OS
Same problem has Iphone and Android, and finally WP7.
It may be easy to use if yo have less than 10 apps, but imagine having 30 apps and scrolling like a fool to find your app, that's mixed with the other phone icons.
I'm not an Apps fan, and I always try to have less apps than possible.
But I like it organized, with some folder-gerachy.
Android its scary, its desktop is full of apps icons one time I was 5 minutes searching for the Cam without finding anything. so I let it.
I know everyone is thinking the same, and I don't know why there's people who say that WP7 is cool and the new wave of mobile-OS are the future.
Maybe they have to give a sense to their spent money, or to the fact, that possibly there will be no go back to previous cool features and improvements of WM6.1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Android supports folders.
Purple11 said:
I dont think so, I think the reason why maybe its not selling so well is simply because many people are afraid to switch to their trusted Android or Iphone platform to something which is relativly new. But trust me, once they Windows Phone 7 Interface they will never go back.. I have never owned one Iphone or Android phone, but all my friends have them and they all borrow it to me for weeks because I am more tech saavy than them and I load usefull apps for them , so I pretty much know and have tested Iphone and Android at length.. but WP7 is nothing like that..
All my friends who borrowed me their Android and Iphones before now see my WP7 and the smoothness in WP7 and they all just want to instantly switch.. One just need to see it for more than 20 mins in a showroom and actually use the device for a week to see how good WP7 is compared to WM6.5, Iphone or Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
doministry said:
Well definitely there will be many users loving WP7 look and feel.
For me it was opposite - I fell in love once I unboxed it but after 3 months I was having enough of limitations plus honestly UI of WP7 is dead boring after 3 months, some tiles are so horribly unappealing. It seems sometimes like a sketch not finished UI.
But this is taste and individual feeling. Many users will catch it. People I know were not appealed at all. So it's very individual.
And I have no idea in what sense WP7 is "so good" compared to Android or iOS.
I didn't find any real reason.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is little if any innovation in WP7. People Hub as already done in TouchWiz. All of the Social integration is pretty much same ole same ole. Apple already had GameCenter. Apple has iPod (i.e. Zune) and you could get All-You-Can-Eat music from services like Rhapsody on other platforms.
Office isn't innovative because ThinkFree and other apps have comparable functionality and integration in other platforms. Also, Office has been in Windows Mobile since 2002 or so... The functionality of Outlook/Office going from WM to WP7 has actually been downgraded quite a lot. For example, WP7 doesn't support Exchange Tasks and the calendar is, IMO, worse...
Nothing great about Push Notifications which are worse and more volatile than any other platform that offers them.
Tiles and Live Tiles are just Widgets with a different look and feel.
Microsoft didn't really innovate any much moving from WM to WP7, and the base OS is still Windows CE. They used Silverlight as a way to decouple the UX from the base OS, but they released it before it was finished (hence why there are 1.5k APIs keeping apps off the platform coming with Mango).
How well WP7 does depends solely on how Android and iOS develop going into the future.
Nokia will help MS but Google has way more manufacturers and Apple will continue to do well building their own handset. Also, with Nokia somewhat abandoning Symbian a lot of their users will jump to Android because WP7 does not have functionality on par with BB/WM/Symbian to allow them to migrade decently form Symbian to WP7. Nokia cannot do that without reworking a bit of the OS and I doubt Microsoft will want them to diverge so far from the reference implementation.
I think in 2010 they lost bigtime because they didn't live up to the hype. The carriers still have as much control over WP7 as they do with Android, and their update system is still only on par with Android and much worse than iOS. In addition, the launch hardware is rather poor and with the i5 coming out soon after Mango, and Android Manufacturers pushing the button (not to mention Google making some pretty good changes in their OS latesly - free Voice/Video Chat in Google Talk?! We don't even have a WLM and it's not slated to even come with Mango!) it will be hard for them to persuade switches. In addition to that, the pitiful state of RTM WP7 has already made them a laughing stock on many tech blogs and among users. They should have waited, IMO.
People who have Android phones won't tell their friends to get WP7 devices because of Google Talk/Services. People with iOS devices will likely push that. People with Blackberries will recommend Blackberries because of BBM, etc. People with WP7 devices are generally on the fence and many are lamenting the purchase. The OS is so functionally thin, and even will still be compared to iOS/Android with Mango, that it's really hard to enjoy it. Android Manufacturers are already getting better with Updates (Samsung leading the pack, suprisingly), so that is already no longer a reason to go with WP7...
A good smartphone will not make you feel like you are hampered because you upgraded from a different OS, and a good smartphone will not force you to double fist two smartphones because it's lacking in so much functionality as to be unusable without a different device to fill in the gaps.
WM had usability issues, but it was a complete smartphone OS.
And BTW, it had nothing to do with it having a decade of development. Even from day one it was never possible to call WM functionally thin compared to anything on the market (Symbian, Blackberry, Palm, etc.). The actual phones/devices running it was a different story.
And as a business user WP7 is practically useless. It isn't even worth consideration. I'd get a Blackberry or Symbian Anna device, instead...
Hi all!
I've been using Mango 7740 on my Titan for about a month. I totally love it. I have falled head over heels for WP! I switched from Android. This felt so much more professional and in many ways a complete approach to fresh smartphone UI. I know the UI is unmatched by anything in the market and so is social network integration. I was showing off my phone to few friends who loved it while they played with it. Obviously lack of few big apps was noticed very soon and they do understand the fact that it's a new OS and apps take time to come to new OS. But one of the friends asked me: "So what's unique about this OS apart from the new and sexy UI?"
To be honest I did want to tell him the list of things, but then in my head most other OSes can do things I know of. Can someone help me to figure out the uniqueness of this OS? I know this sounds very silly knowing I have a Titan in my hand to explore and know.
I've looked through two major comparison threads for WP vs iPhone vs Android and I think without rooting/jailbreaking all of these OSes have similar or same functionality limitations and app dependencies. Some platforms fulfil that via apps whereas WP will eventually fulfil it via apps.
Please try to not add the spice of trolling and fanboy teaming up here, I just want to get involvement from Windows Phone users in terms of what they found to be unique in this OS compared to their previous phone(s).
I don't think you'll find anything unique, as in something that sets things apart, until the next iteration. Frankly, with the exception of Apple in very specific respects, I don't think you'll see things that are unique to mobile platforms just because of the nature of competition among Google, Apple, and Microsoft.
Things have evolved to a point now where it's not so much about features, but more of the overall ecosystem and how in tune that is to your lifestyle.
the only really unique thing it has is the fact that you have to use the worst software in history of PC software to put music and movies on it... Zune is horrible
EDIT: I just realized that iPhone users are forced to itunes, so I take my statement back. Second worst software in the history of PC sotware
Zune is actually cool. They should kill all the other media players on the PC, and make just one.
Unique: battery life. That's it.
For me, it's the integration of social networking, the intuitive metro UI and the stability.
The OS simply works. It's quick, clean and easy.
It does everything I want it to do so I have no need to look elsewhere.
^ uniqueness minus UI.
All smart phones generally do the same thing, it isn't really about what they do for me, it's about HOW they do it. Windows Phone centralizes all information, in the most fluid, involving way I have ever experienced. You feel like you're in the phone, and as though everything is catered to you and the information you want. It lacks in a few areas, all phones do, but when you understand the gap covered in one year, you'll see this OS evolve quickly, and amazingly.
Android does voice search, yeah, but WinPhone and iPhone do it differently, better. The UI as an argument for WinPhone IS the main argument, because the UI is more than how the tiles are curved, or the widgets align, its how the information is displayed, carried through, and experienced.
That's just me. All phones play music, all phones have a camera, all phones have sms, email, a phone, apps, a market, but none of them deliver it in the same consistent way that Microsoft has here.
FiyaFleye said:
All smart phones generally do the same thing, it isn't really about what they do for me, it's about HOW they do it. Windows Phone centralizes all information, in the most fluid, involving way I have ever experienced. You feel like you're in the phone, and as though everything is catered to you and the information you want. It lacks in a few areas, all phones do, but when you understand the gap covered in one year, you'll see this OS evolve quickly, and amazingly.
Android does voice search, yeah, but WinPhone and iPhone do it differently, better. The UI as an argument for WinPhone IS the main argument, because the UI is more than how the tiles are curved, or the widgets align, its how the information is displayed, carried through, and experienced.
That's just me. All phones play music, all phones have a camera, all phones have sms, email, a phone, apps, a market, but none of them deliver it in the same consistent way that Microsoft has here.
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Click to collapse
Hehe this basically sums it up for me. However you said it far more eloquently than I did
After getting my lumia, i can say its the fastest os out there.
The biggest unique features imo are the live tiles and the way information is presented.
The hubs are also unique and amazingly well thought out.
But underneath the ui all os perform the same task just in a slightly different way.
Btw all people i showed the os on the lumia loved the blazing speed of it and the feel. So ms is doin something right
Sent from my Lumia 800 using Board Express
now i can just sit on my bed and command my TV to play my favorite movies off my Desktop HDD with HTC Connected Media , or control my XBOX 360 without touching the controller and all that's kinds of stuffs. Almost all electronic in my house are the part of the ecosystem.
All TV has one HDMI hook up to one desktop (not all ATI Radeon or something like that , just Intel GMA HD) . All benifit from Windows 7 - Zune Cilent - XBOX 360 - Windows Phone 7.
Not everyone realize that is what Microsoft are trying to head us: " Make our life easier with Ecosystem"
vetvito said:
Zune is actually cool. They should kill all the other media players on the PC, and make just one.
Unique: battery life. That's it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the battery life unique?
But what makes Android unique vs iOS? As crazy as this sounds, there will come a point in time when they all are so similar in capabilities that we will be bickering about minute differences (oh I get 30fps playing crysis 5 mobile edition and you get 28!). The answer right now is the how and not the what. the user experience is quite different in Android vs iOS vs Windows Phone. UI, stability, battery life, features, apps, everything. But that will change.
I think that is the reason for all the litigation. Which is sad, because the car companies seem to differentiate themselves quite fine without having to litigate like crazy.
Great info about windows phone...thanks for sharing
Guys, thank you so much for all the input.. There are few points I din't realise that put this OS as much unique concept. I am a little more educated now. If anyone else has more uniqueness about this OS please do share with me and the others as it does seem to bring out different point of views from real Windows Phone users.
This might be more UI related anyway, but some points do make the OS look much unique against iOS.
JVH3 said:
Things I miss the most.
Not seeing calendar events or weather on the home screen.
The People hub. And no way to directly go to a contact. Must launch Phone first.
No easy way to immediately close an app when done with it, like the Back button in Windows Phone 7. I seem to end up with about 10 apps running all the time and need to close each 1 individually.
I liked the large Tiles of Windows 7 because I can easily hit them with my thumb using it 1 handed. They might be bigger than they need to be. Maybe 3 columns of Tiles would be better, and to not waste the space to the right of the Tiles. iPhone is much more difficult for 1 handed use with big thumbs.
A seperate indicator for work email and my combined email and no easy way to dismiss the indicator. This should be easy enough for Apple to do. An indicator for default in one corner and combined in another.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xbox achievements.
I think the overall usage flow of Wp7 is the best. Also the obvious superior design of the UI I would say is a huge differentiator. Zune is great for one reason "send to phone" any file, no more maintaining playlists.
Sent from my HTC Titan using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
clfosk said:
Xbox achievements.
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Click to collapse
"250 texts sent!" ;-)
Madmanden said:
"250 texts sent!" ;-)
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Click to collapse
haha what does that mean?
Can you actually send your achievements via texts? I din't know that!
I should get bragging about my achievements using all the unlimited texts in that case
Integration, the Metro UI and the stability !
Calendar + email: Outlook -> Windows Live -> Windows Phone (and vise versa)
Here's my take:
Since I have many appointments during the week, I need an easy way to manage them. The best software, IMHO, for doing this, is Outlook.
The best integration of Outlook with an online calendar is with the Windows Live calendar.
The best integration of Window live calendar with a smart phone is with the Windows phone.
So while talking on the phone at work, I add an appointment to my calendar from Outlook. On the road, I get a reminder from my Windows phone. When I go to the other guys office, I set up a new appointment using my phone. When I get home, I see it in Outlook and make a few changes.
It all just works.
(The same can be said about email, but for me, the calendar integration is a killer feature, and I did look at other calender options. However, I would like to see improvements to the calendar software on the phone, such as a built in week view).