Related
Ok, so there are task killer threads that lead me to believe that they a are a waste of time by and large, and that android automatically sorts things out. Those same posts also point out that task killers are an extra drain on the battery having to start applications over again uses more battery than leaving something dormant in the background. These posts are not the thoughts of one person but unanimous to those threads. All very well, but then there are the battery saving threads that say to close down all applications that aren't being used to save additional battery??? Again this is the view of everyone in those particular threads, so is there any chance of getting the two camps to FIGHT! And then I can decide which I shall choose to do!
For info I currently have task killer and use it all the time and get a full days use out of my battery which is good because I cane the hell out of it! But If I could improve it that would be good. I have however this afternoon decided to not use task killer for a few days and see how I get on. But an explanation would be good from both sides.
I never use a task killer and get 2 or 3 days use out of of my Desire. No point in a war just use your Desire for a week without a task killer and then a week with. I am pretty sure you will just find the task killer slows things down and doesn't improve battery life. You will not find any of the ROM chefs using a task killer either!
HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.
polystirenman said:
HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
dhiral.v said:
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well.i did read that before.that is why i do not understand why my phone was so slow.they are claiming that android should close apps by itself to reclaim memory.but in my case that wasn't true.everything was running and nothing was getting closed by system.
Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.
pascanu said:
Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would like to believe it.i was so excited when i saw a post saying that i should get rid of task-killer.but as i wrote before after half day of heavy use(my phone is new so i play with it a lot :-D ) without task killer my phone was soooooo slow i couldn't use it anymore.today i had task-killer back on the phone and all day no slowdown what so ever.i don't understand that.i am starting to think it is related to A2SD and memory being relocated to SD card.
I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.
If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...
andycted said:
If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the link in my previous post?
ANOTHER thread about this... There must be plenty of threads on this now, but I'll just once more give my impression.
Personally I have had HTC widgets like NEWS or MAIL or CALENDER hang or crash on me and I could not restart them unless I restarted the phone. In this case an app killer was ESSENTIAL. I don't believe you need to leave the app killer running always and kill every single task when your done, but its essential to have one installed so if a widget hangs (as has happened quite a few times on the Desire) you can kill the hung app without having to try a 5 hour shut down(another desire issue) and battery removal.
Also... after 2 days use of many apps and camera use and internet and youtube app etc, your internal RAM will be about 50mb available to programs. yes, android is supposed to kill stuff as it needs, and Im sure it does, but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious. So I do tend to kill tasks like camera and youtube etc if I have not used them in a day and my phone seem slaggy. the phone definetly runs faster then. Thats just a fact. So the internal android task killer is not as efficent as you'd like to think. Android 2.2 runs 450% faster than 2.1 so maybe then no lag will EVER be noticable. I'll still keep a task killer installed though in case widgets crash or hang.
I found my battery most efficient with this setup:
- Installed Advanced Task killer (free)
- Security level: High (it doesn't show system apps)
- I have put all frequently using apps on ignore list: ATK, Messages, BatteryTimeLite, Internet, Weather, Clock, Calendar (so Android manage with those apps)
- Auto kill Level: Safe
- Auto kill Frequency: 2 hours
With that setup battery lasts almost half time longer than without TK or with killing all apps when screen goes off. Also I don't have any force closes / lag.
Never experienced lag at 100 or 20 mb free.
mcgon1979 said:
but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The amount of free memory doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lag.
As Android does not use virtual memory (unless you've hacked in swapper, which is a bad idea anyway), it will attempt to make best use of available memory which may mean keeping recently used items in memory, and thus "consuming" free memory. However, if those items are not actively processing, they should not be consuming CPU cycles and therefore consuming little to no power.
As far as a running system is concerned, having lots of free memory just means that it is being underutilized.
I don't kill tasks and my phone never lags - that's just a fact too!
Regards,
Dave
boge said:
I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using this method it is possible to make the native task killer a bit more aggresive. I did some experiments with this on the HTC Hero and it just might have improved speed slightly but at the expense of stability.
"Normal" task killers are completely pointless but if people want to use them why not? It they want to sacrifice both battery life and performance by using one surely that is their choice. Whatever the experts says will not convince them.
I suppose you could use one to kill the very occasional hung app. i.e. Once every few days, but most people seem to use them constantly and totally indiscriminately.
1. About Cpu: get a task manager with cpu monitoring and verify for yourself, frozen applications in background don't do anything.
2. About memory: If an application needs 10 MB it just uses 10 MB and couldn't care less if there are 11, 100, 1000 MB free. The only moment you COULD see a tiny slowdown is the instant it needs 20 and there are only 10 available, but the system is quite good in managing that, and freeing resources (there are six levels of memory cleaning which progressively remove unused applications from the background)
3. If you stop monitoring memory usage, stop worrying about the system, you'll find out it manages itself perfectly and you enjoy the phone a lot more.
Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."
Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as said in the post above, get a cpu monitoring task manager and see for yourself if you have something wrong. Personally I don't have any.
Also watch battery history which tells you if the phone doesn't manage to go properly to sleep (partial wake)
regarding that article, iphone users get way less battery time and they don't even have multitasking...
-------------------------------------
Ipad's dont have "Spell Check" thery have "Replace" built into Safarii adn it wokrs just fineq!!!
I personally installed auto memory manager, an app that configures android's internal task killer. Its not a task manager by itself, uses android's task manager. You can set the limits in MB for all the app categories android has.
I was using it in my hero as well and found it really useful. Before having it installed, after some time my free memory was ~50mb, thus my phone was sometimes lagging. Now its always above 100mb and no lag at all
Hello,
I recently upgraded from a hero which wad heavily tweaked thanks to this forum.
Now that I have tweaked the DHD to use evolution HD (great btw), I have a question about task managers etc.
People have said the built in management is much better etc etc. But how does it know when I have finished with a program? If it does not have an exit now button in the app will it effectively keep running? I used to use task killers just to kill everything after I have playing with the phone. Is this not needed?
Thanks for reading!
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
just leave it then
as you've got an DHD, you've really got enough RAM
so: if another process needs ram and nothing is left atm, android closes the one you left "running" some time before, etc..
don't use task killers...the integrated android "feature" does its work..for sure!
DN41
JLneonhug said:
People have said the built in management is much better etc etc. But how does it know when I have finished with a program?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
because you haven't used it for a while
JLneonhug said:
If it does not have an exit now button in the app will it effectively keep running?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
in the back ground yes, until the resources are needed
JLneonhug said:
I used to use task killers just to kill everything after I have playing with the phone. Is this not needed?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No it's not and this is where the problem arises, if android thinks an app is required, it will respawn it after you have killed it using uneccessary cpu cycles, and it will do this repeatedly every time you kill the process. As long as you haven't got a rogue process eating all the cpu cycles when it shouldn't task killers are not required.
Dont listen to people who say "uninstall your task manager it's not needed" its absolute crap, yes it is true that android's own internal memory manager does a great job on its own and yes having a task manager that kills task on some kind of schedule is just a waste of battery and resources, but if you need to run any kind of task that is resoure heavy it's imperative to have a task killer to free up some memory or that task could take forever. its also useful for playing demanding games ect. thats just my opinion anyway
ghostofcain said:
No it's not and this is where the problem arises, if android thinks an app is required, it will respawn it after you have killed it using uneccessary cpu cycles, and it will do this repeatedly every time you kill the process. As long as you haven't got a rogue process eating all the cpu cycles when it shouldn't task killers are not required.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats just not true, my device usually has around 110-150mb of free ram when idol, if i use a task killer i can get around 300mb of free ram, if i dont touch my device, it will stay at over 280mb indefinitely untill i start using apps again .......
NO TASKILLERS!!!!!....They mess up with your system + drain your battery + will leave you posting more on xda.....
AndroHero said:
thats just not true, my device usually has around 110-150mb of free ram when idol, if i use a task killer i can get around 300mb of free ram, if i dont touch my device, it will stay at over 280mb indefinitely untill i start using apps again .......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which benefits you how? Android isn't windows it doesn't run smoother because it has huge reserves of memory sat around unused, yes if you kill everything and leave your phone on idle it may well free up a huge amount of memory, but start using it and it will respawn important processes. For the undecided her'e some further reading Lifehacker, geekforme, Androidspin, Infoworld, talkandroid, tested and the last word to Google.
Even Windows doesn't run smoother if there's lot of unused RAM. Even though the makers of those RAM "optimization" tools will tell you different. RAM is there to be used. Free RAM is like having your money in a sock under your bed instead of getting interest from it.
On my DHD Android will start killing background apps when the free RAM drops below 40 MB. And what more do you need? Why is 150 mb free RAM better than 40 mb free RAM? If an app needs more than 40 mb the missing RAM will be freed up almost instantly. I doubt anyone will notice. And almost no apps use 40+ RAM anyway.
And to those that are absolutely convinced background tasks eat their battery. That's wrong in 95 % of all cases as well. A background app that does nothing also uses no CPU = almost zero battery usage. So no harm done. And a background app that does something mostly does so because you the user told it to do so. What eats battery is the display, setting the brightness to 25 % or so really help. But that's offtopic...
ghostofcain said:
Which benefits you how? Android isn't windows it doesn't run smoother because it has huge reserves of memory sat around unused, yes if you kill everything and leave your phone on idle it may well free up a huge amount of memory, but start using it and it will respawn important processes. For the undecided her'e some further reading Lifehacker, geekforme, Androidspin, Infoworld, talkandroid, tested and the last word to Google.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah i understand that, but what im saying is SOME application and games (av suites, emulators eg psx4droid and fpsce, games like dungeon defnders ect) they generally require more ram to operate than the minimum android will leave free, so in thoes curcumstances, it is usefull to have a task killer to free up enough ram for thoes tasks to run optimally, i did a experiment the other week, and it took my av suite 17 minutes to do a full scan with no memory optimisation and 11 minutes to run after using a task killer, are you seriously telling me using a task killer once or twice a day will use more battery than leaving the phone scanning for an extra 6 minutes? also all these sites you quoted, i agree having a task killer on a scheduled auto-kill basis is a waste of time or battery, but people came to the conclusion not to use task killer 12-18 months ago when there were very few high powered devices and resource heavy tasks, now there are more and more apps that require a large amount of ram to run optimally..
AndroHero said:
yeah i understand that, but what im saying is SOME application and games (av suites, emulators eg psx4droid and fpsce, games like dungeon defnders ect) they generally require more ram to operate than the minimum android will leave free, so in thoes curcumstances, it is usefull to have a task killer to free up enough ram for thoes tasks to run optimally, i did a experiment the other week, and it took my av suite 17 minutes to do a full scan with no memory optimisation and 11 minutes to run after using a task killer, are you seriously telling me using a task killer once or twice a day will use more battery than leaving the phone scanning for an extra 6 minutes? also all these sites you quoted, i agree having a task killer on a scheduled auto-kill basis is a waste of time or battery, but people came to the conclusion not to use task killer 12-18 months ago when there were very few high powered devices and resource heavy tasks, now there are more and more apps that require a large amount of ram to run optimally..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah but 12-18 months ago 512mb ram was a dream for most of us. I don't think the main issue with task managers is extra battery usage it's the unexplained anomalys with programs FC'ing or plain not working because some automated task killers has over zealously shutting down important services
ghostofcain said:
yeah but 12-18 months ago 512mb ram was a dream for most of us. I don't think the main issue with task managers is extra battery usage it's the unexplained anomalys with programs FC'ing or plain not working because some automated task killers has over zealously shutting down important services
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
exactly, when people started saying dont use task killers, devices had very little ram, but on the other hand applications required very little ram, things have moved on now, and with more powerfull devices come more powerfull applications, and although i agree with having a task killer on an auto-kill schedule is a waste of time, i think its useful to have one for thoes time you want to run a resource hungry app, but you know like they say YMMV
Thanks for the replies, it makes sense now.
Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk
Can anyone explain the amount of RAM that this phone is suppose to have?
The specs for the phone lists 768 MB. However, the total memory that comes up is 617940 kB.
Thanks.
Bull Shot said:
Can anyone explain the amount of RAM that this phone is suppose to have?
The specs for the phone lists 768 MB. However, the total memory that comes up is 617940 kB.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where are you finding this number? i am at 758 MB. since i have a bunch of apps installed, that would seem about right.
How are you guys getting so much free ram? When I check on Task Killer, whenever I kill all the apps I'm not using it usually shows 358 mb ... and programs I'm not using automatically keep running (i.e Maps).
hmm maybe im not checking the right place? i'm getting my 758 mb number from settings--SD and phone storage. the internal phone storage tells me 758mb.
on an unrelated note though, you shouldn't use task killers. they are considered by most to be more of a drain on your battery life as android is already setup to manage closing unused apps on its own.
Many people use the term "memory" to mean system memory as well as storage. I try to avoid calling system storage as "memory" and tend to use "storage" instead, or refer to the type of storage.
Total ram is around 768mb. Part of it is reserved (not sure why, possibly for filesystem caching) so around 603mb is available. For this platform that is a healthy chunk of RAM to work with. Even with my hefty usage I have ~126mb free.
Internal storage is something like 2gb, with it partially consumed by the Android install as well as NAND configuration adjustments for reliability which cause some of the storage space to be consumed through hardware (there's an excellent explanation of this somewhere, don't have a link handy), resulting in about 1.1gb being available. I have 103 apps installed, 523.5mb of the internal storage used, with 638.8mb available.
There was an excellent tool posted on xda (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1066060) called Android Optimizer that gives a lot of good information about memory, storage, cpu usage, etc. I'd recommend checking it out. It's not available on the market and it is a little buggy so use it with a bit of caution if you choose to use any of the optimization functions.
cool. thanks for the explanation nimdae!
There have been so, so, so many posts on this topic that I will not rehash them all here. Instead, I will ask a simple question: For what do you use all that free RAM?
Ask yourself that question, and be serious about it. I think you will find yourself uninstalling your task managers and memory optimizers before long.
Edit: to avoid unnecessary discussion, Watchdog is in fact neither of those, and I would highly recommend it as the only memory app you will ever need.
Edit 2: the total RAM displayed is the RAM that is actually available to be used by anything the user may want to run. As a poster earlier said, the system reserves a certain amount of RAM for its own use to keep important processes moving along. The reserved RAM is not available, and so doesn't appear in total RAM. Unless you want to uninstall the OS. Then you could have access to all 768 MBs.
I would like to reiterate why you should not use automatic task killers.
As of, I believe, Android 2.0, the garbage collection and memory management was significantly improved. However, this was not a new system in Android, it always existed.
How it works:
If you haven't noticed with Android, when you leave an app, it doesn't close it unless the app specifically does something to end the process. This is by design. Android allows the app to remain in memory. Frequently used apps will load faster with this design. A "task" that is not killed and is in the background ONLY consumes memory, it does not "run" (in Linux terms, the process is actually in a "stopped" state so the task can't do anything anyway). Only a "service" can run in the background. Most apps that have long running services have lightweight services.
If an application loads that requires more memory than is available, Android will examine backgrounded tasks for candidates to be killed to free up memory. This makes it so as many tasks as possible can remain in memory for better performance. In understanding this, you should know that if you have a large amount of memory, and memory usage is high, this is a GOOD THING. With the amount of memory in the I2, there is a lot of breathing space for this.
There is one other case where a backgrounded task will be killed: if it has been in the background for a certain period of time without being brought forward. Killing a task to free up memory to load another task can actually be a little cpu expensive (but not THAT much) so this can make it slightly easier.
Please note that backgrounded tasks WILL NOT contribute to battery drain. Only tasks at the front and services will. Killing your backgrounded calculator will do nothing for you other than free that small amount of memory it uses. Used memory does not contribute to extra battery drain as DRAM refreshes happen on ALL cells anyway.
Background services can also be made candidates for being killed. If an app needs more memory than can be made available by killing backgrounded tasks, then services become targets to be killed as well.
Automatic task killers cause a couple of problems. A less major problem is you lose that one benefit you get by keeping tasks in the background: performance. I don't just mean how fast it loads. If it can bring a backgrounded task to the front from memory rather than load from storage, you remove extra processing to load the app, including storage access, that contribute to higher battery drain. The other problem is a poorly configured task killer can break things like notifications.
Managing your services is always a good idea. Having a lot of services running means background processes that are capable of contributing to battery drain. Additionally, there are apps with misbehaving services (services that consume resources or use features they shouldn't). While I'm against automatic task killers, using something to monitor and manage services is a good idea. Just always keep in mind the implications for killing a service: it may affect a feature to an app that you would rather not impact.
Excellent explanation nimdae! Task killers are the devil.
On another note, my posts are getting too long...
nimdae said:
On another note, my posts are getting too long...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everything is longer in Texas.
xgunther said:
Everything is longer in Texas.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what s...no, that's too easy.
Move along, nothing to see.
Before I read this I was like a task Nazi. I killed my tasks often, but now I think I will just let them be. Nice write up BTW. Very informative.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
TB13 said:
Before I read this I was like a task Nazi. I killed my tasks often, but now I think I will just let them be. Nice write up BTW. Very informative.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remember: I'm not saying don't manage things. Poorly behaving services are the #1 cause of high battery drain (at least on non-LTE devices), and this will be even more problematic when you overclock.
xgunther said:
Excellent explanation nimdae! Task killers are the devil.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried not using them and I get better battery life with them...I use it maybe 3 times a day after heavy multi tasking. It's to each their own..but I see results for it..like 5 extra hours.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
knipp21 said:
I tried not using them and I get better battery life with them...I use it maybe 3 times a day after heavy multi tasking. It's to each their own..but I see results for it..like 5 extra hours.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you get that much extra, you have a misbehaving app. Better to get the app developer to fix it or find an alternative.
nimdae said:
If you get that much extra, you have a misbehaving app. Better to get the app developer to fix it or find an alternative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, I don't need to use it often though lol
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
I'm in Texas as well.
sent from a phone without root.
I use a task killer only to manually kill an app that freezes or something. Its easier than going to manage applications. I have the autokill disabled.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
AngelsPunishment said:
I use a task killer only to manually kill an app that freezes or something. Its easier than going to manage applications. I have the autokill disabled.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CyanogenMod (maybe other ROMs) have a feature to kill a frozen app by holding the back button (long press, whatever). However, this can also be an annoyance on systems where for unknown reasons it registers a long press on a tap (my eris did this a lot).
The title is basically the question, im fed up of alot of programs auto opening on my android phone, it takes battery and is slightly annoying receiving notifications off apps i dont really care about such as the NFL game tells me about small things in the NFL, im in the UK, i dont care.
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram, (2 secs later) killed all my selected apps now have 201mb free so im using 80mb of ram on apps im not using. Ive made 2 or 3 phone calls today no more than 30 mins long altogether and ive lost 55% of my battery since about midday, which is when i unplugged the phone.
And I think all these apps are the problem so how can I stop them from auto opening, please help
Search the market for startup cleaner
Sent from my A101IT using xda premium
yusuo said:
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
Better search for auto starts, this asp shows you the conditions an asp can turn back on and you can bin it off, Facebook for example had like 8 conditions, from full to medium battery life, on charge and change in network....... Use it
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium
rootSU said:
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's still no reason for most of this apps to use RAM. Apps like facebook and skype shouldn't be actice without user permission. Without login they are complete useless.
I'll try Startup Cleaner, thx.
It's how android works and what RAM is for. There is always a reason.
Sure if someone doesn't use Facebook, it should be uninstallable, but its not and its not causing any harm
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
rootSU said:
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for you reply but its not really an answer its more of a contradiction, what I was asking is how to I stop apps from auto starting and eating up RAM, regardless of how long the phones been on
...and I'm telling you its a pointless, unecessary waste of time. Also it is not possible. Autostarts as already mentioned is the closest you'll get
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
I also turned off the autorun permissions of a lot of apps, for 2 reasons: 1) a device that is smooth sooner after booting, using less cpu cycles/power. 2) preventing Sense from reloading due to RAM shortage and have smooth multitasking.
1) Android loads a bunch of apps to the RAM that have the autorun permission, until it thinks it is "enough" and useful to you. No matter how many apps you have installed, the amount of free RAM is always about the same, just the number of "unwanted" apps in the RAM differs. Removing the autorun on boot permissions prevents the loading of unnecessary apps that will immediately be removed from the RAM the moment you start the browser/a game, saving cpu cycles=power. So for me there is no point in loading them in the first place, because I am never going to use them (right away). I want the apps that don't to any syncing loaded on demand.
2) I hate slow multitasking and I hate it even more when Sense reloads because it got kicked out of the RAM after each time I press HOME.
I use 3G Watchdog (~12MB RAM), Unlock with Wifi (~8MB), Whatsapp (~15MB), Handcent SMS (~18MB), Droidstats (~13MB), Extended Controls (~12MB), Battery Monitor Widget Pro (~13MB). Okay, I maybe could delete some of them, but these app are "OK" to me, because I use them actively or just need a background service to operate normally.
With Gemini I disabled apps like Facebook, a screenshot tool (just load when I want to make a screenshot..), various public transport planning tools, etc from autostarting.
No joy moment: after using the Facebook app (market version), it may take up 50+ MB and it will not be closed when I start another RAM intensive app, because it is a high priority service. Result: Sense gets kicked out of the RAM. Or, when the situation is somewhat less critical: multitasking is as good as unusable: switching between apps makes them load over and over again, because app2 kicks app1 out of the RAM and vice versa, causing unnecessary lag. Therefore: when I am done with facebook, I close it, then STAY the hell closed It may only autostart when it receives a push message. In that case it is nice to have FB already in RAM when I tap the notification.
Why do even some games have background services, or the Engadget app, or .. , or... all eating precious RAM. And yes, I know, once IN the RAM they eat no battery, but they DO eat battery when the app loads itself back in the RAM when it thinks it needs to, after it got kicked the moment I decided to so something else.
Hmm, spent way too much time to try to explain my frustration Oh and by the way, I have a Legend, but the basics are the same of course.
Dwnload an app called internet commander from the market. It shuts off the internet when your screen turns off but still let's you get calls and texts. I've got my phone , rooted of course, clocked to 710 and my battery will last for days.
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I just re read your post, that won't help with apps but it will help save battery. And when you turn your screen on the internet kicks right on instantly. Good luck
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yusuo said:
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
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The guys here have already suggested you use a certain program from the Market. Have you tried it?
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
TVTV said:
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
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I respectfuly disagree. Android built in ram management is just silly. If I open xda app for example (it could actually be any app for that matter), reply to a few posts, read a few more and close it, why does it need to stay in ram? It reloads anyway when I run it again after I've closed it (using the back button or the actual exit command in the app itself). Why does the camera app need to stay in the background after I just shot a few photos and closed it? Because I may or may not use it again in some time? It's rediculous. And the whole theory that ram management doesn't require any power/cpu usage, how do you guys think all those apps get killed? Android will power?! No, kernel scans all running apps and kills the ones based on built in heuristics so it also reads them first. So that doesn't require any power/battery? Awesome if it's true! Although I wouldn't bet on that. And all this fuss just because you may or may not launch the same app sometime during the next day/week/month/year or it'll eventually get killed? Now that's just plain stupid. I get apps that need services like widgets, push notifications etc. but random apps like root explorer, xda app, titanium, youtube etc. which are opened specificly by the user shouldn't be in ram just for the sake of it after they're closed. I closed it, meaning I don't need it anymore. And I don't need the kernel to scan all apps and running services every time I launch an app so it could provide the free ram that app needs. Consumes cpu time, battery, i/o ... every piece of hardware actually just to free some ram that shouldn't be occupied in the first place. Every app that I ever opened on my phone got loaded almost instantly and that's just after phone had been booted. So after that it should stay in ram so I could open it in a blink of an eye instead of instantly? That's just funny.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud so don't flame me immediately. There probably are apsects of it that I didn't mention here or am not aware of. And I'm not saying that I'm right and you guys are wrong, I'm just saying what I know and think about this subject.
-. typewrited .-
PlayPetepp, while it might be true that the OS allocates (thus use) some resources to memory maintenance, the impact on battery life is negligible. In the Android OS, apps in memory are ordered according to priority and state, so the OS always knows which apps to kill first if it needs to make room in RAM, without much of a hassle. The only bad consequence of this system seems to be the fact that once the memory fills up, the launcher may lag or even be evacuated from memory. But, as i've mentioned in my previous post, there are ways to prevent that, either via scripts or, if you know what you're doing, via editing system files.
So the OS doesn't need to scan anything as it keeps everything in memory again? Seems like an endless loop. Open, sort, kill if needed, reopen, sort again, kill ... to what end, constant unneccessary multitasking that user is unaware of? I really don't see any benefit of that system and am only seeing the downsides. I mean, who needs every app they ever run remain in ram even if they close them after using? And then opening another app and "waiting" for whatever needs to be closed to get it running. Sure you can mess with the scripts (init.d, init.rc, etc.) but the underlined conditions stay the same. I hope I'm making sense here. Or am I fighting against windmills.
I just figured out that I strayed from the topic of this thread so won't be continuing this discussion if it's considered offtopic.
-. typewrited .-
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
erklat said:
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
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Hello again nice to see you here
Here's an interesting article on what I was talking about. Sense 3.5 doesn't need that many mbs of ram to work smoothly. After booting and setting everything up I have 150+ mb free. That should be enough for decent multitasking but all those apps not getting killed when you close them are eating too much. Can anyone explain in detail what hidden app, perceptible app, backup app and heavy_weight app means? I've been googling this for a week and can't find any decent explanation.
@PlayPetepp - I think i have already said (in my previous post) that the OS does indeed use some resources for managing the memory, but they are negligible in terms of their impact on battery life. IMHO, the only thing a 3'rd party memory manager (task killer) WILL do is improve lanuncher responsiveness (lag) as the lag does increase when free RAM drops under a certain limit. Thus used wisely, a task killer can improve responsiveness, but battery life... very little, in rare cases (it does the opposite, most of the time).
Regarding the so called "memory slots", here's an excerpt from this article:
FOREGROUND_APP: This is the application currently on the screen, and running
VISIBLE_APP: This is an application that is open, and running in the background because it's still doing something
SECONDARY_SERVER: This is a process (a service that an application needs) that is alive and ready in case it's needed to do something
HIDDEN_APP: This again is a process, that sits idle (but still alive) in case it's needed by an app that's alive and running
CONTENT_PROVIDER: This is apps that provide data (content) to the system. HTC Facebook Sync? That's a CONTENT_PROVIDER. So are things like the Android Market, or Fring. If they are alive, they can refresh and provide the content they are supposed to at the set interval. If you kill them, they can't of course.
EMPTY_APP: I call these "ghosts." They are apps that you have opened, but are done with them. Android uses a unique style of handling memory management. When an activity is ended, instead of killing it off Android keeps the application in memory so that opening them again is a faster process. Theses "ghost" apps use no battery or CPU time, they just fill RAM that would be otherwise empty. When this memory is needed by a different application or process, the RAM is flushed and made available for the new app. To satisfy the geekier people (like myself) Android does this by keeping a list of recently used apps, with the oldest apps in the list given the lowest priority -- they are killed first if RAM is needed elsewhere. This is a perfect way to handle 'ghost' processes, so there's no need to touch this part
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So i saw many posts on which people have asked as to which task killer should be used !
and then i stumble upon this site which provided me the details,
*I HAVE NOT WRITTEN THIS*
sources-by Chris Hoffman
http://www.howtogeek.com/127388/htg-explains-why-you-shouldnt-use-a-task-killer-on-android/
Android Doesn’t Manage Processes Like Windows
Most Android users are familiar with Windows. On Windows, many programs running at one time – whether they’re windows on your desktop or applications in your system tray – can decrease your computer’s performance. Closing applications when you’re not using them can help speed up your Windows computer.
However, Android isn’t Windows and doesn’t manage processes like Windows does. Unlike on Windows, where there’s an obvious way to close applications, there’s no obvious way to “close” an Android application. This is by design and isn’t a problem. When you leave an Android app, going back to your home screen or switching to another app, the app stays “running” in the background. In most cases, the app will be paused in the background, taking up no CPU or network resources. Some apps will continue using CPU and network resources in the background, of course – for example, music players, file-downloading programs, or apps that sync in the background.
When you go back to an app you were recently using, Android “unpauses” that app and you resume where you left off. This is fast because the app is still stored in your RAM and ready to be used again.
Why Task Killers Are Bad
Proponents of task killers notice that Android is using a lot of RAM – in fact, Android stores a lot of apps in its memory, filling up the RAM! However, that isn’t a bad thing. Apps stored in your RAM can be quickly switched to without Android having to load them from its slower storage.
In summary, you shouldn’t use a task killer – if you have a misbehaving app wasting resources in the background, you should identify it and uninstall it. But don’t just remove apps from your phone or tablet’s RAM – that doesn’t help speed anything up.
Empty RAM is useless. Full RAM is RAM that is being put to good use for caching apps. If Android needs more memory, it will force-quit an app that you haven’t used in a while – this all happens automatically, without installing any task killers.
Task killers think they know better than Android. They run in the background, automatically quitting apps and removing them from Android’s memory. They may also allow you to force-quit apps on your own, but you shouldn’t have to do this.
Task killers aren’t just useless – they can reduce performance. If a task killer removes an app from your RAM and you open that app again, the app will be slower to load as Android is forced to load it from your device’s storage. This will also use more battery power than if you just left the app in your RAM in the first place. Some apps will automatically restart after the task killer quits them, using more CPU and battery resources.
Whether RAM is empty or full, it takes the same amount of battery power – decreasing the amount of apps stored in RAM won’t improve your battery power or offer more CPU cycles.
hope u understood!
words of wisdom by fellow-mates
go into settings - apps and see how many running apps you have. now go to cached apps and see there, how many apps there are. you see? nearly 50% of those apps discovered by you in the processes are apps that you didn't opened ever but they are still opened and running. why? because that's how linux manages its resources. instead of having free ram for no use (what's the point of having 14gb of ram when you only use 1gb), linux fills all the ram blocks with useful apps or apps that you are running frequently so that when you call that app, it will bring it on the screen almost instantly. this my friend, is called multitasking.
and no, you are wrong. if you use a task killer killing the apps every 10 minutes, the cycles the whole system does - opening again apps and caching them, task killer closing them - results in much more functions done by CPU => more battery spent. even if you say that the battery life its the same, you are wrong. when using a task killer IT MIGHT drain your battery with 0.1% per hour. it's not that much, but IT EXIST.
oh and yeah, one thing: android has its own task killer. that's why you don't need one app to kill your other apps. because android its doing it by itself. if you don't believe me, strip down one kernel, open the init.rc file and find the values for task killer.
I understand this response, but I don't believe it. Task killers has always helped me in every matter. Even on a computer it helps greatly.
Conclusion: I noticed the same battery life using a Task Killer, than not using a task killer.
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Curiousn00b said:
I understand this response, but I don't believe it. Task killers has always helped me in every matter. Even on a computer it helps greatly.
Conclusion: I noticed the same battery life using a Task Killer, than not using a task killer.
Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 2
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Click to collapse
you don't have to believe it. those are real facts. go into settings - apps and see how many running apps you have. now go to cached apps and see there, how many apps there are. you see? nearly 50% of those apps discovered by you in the processes are apps that you didn't opened ever but they are still opened and running. why? because that's how linux manages its resources. instead of having free ram for no use (what's the point of having 14gb of ram when you only use 1gb), linux fills all the ram blocks with useful apps or apps that you are running frequently so that when you call that app, it will bring it on the screen almost instantly. this my friend, is called multitasking.
and no, you are wrong. if you use a task killer killing the apps every 10 minutes, the cycles the whole system does - opening again apps and caching them, task killer closing them - results in much more functions done by CPU => more battery spent. even if you say that the battery life its the same, you are wrong. when using a task killer IT MIGHT drain your battery with 0.1% per hour. it's not that much, but IT EXIST.
oh and yeah, one thing: android has its own task killer. that's why you don't need one app to kill your other apps. because android its doing it by itself. if you don't believe me, strip down one kernel, open the init.rc file and find the values for task killer.
salve.
1ceb0x said:
you don't have to believe it. those are real facts. go into settings - apps and see how many running apps you have. now go to cached apps and see there, how many apps there are. you see? nearly 50% of those apps discovered by you in the processes are apps that you didn't opened ever but they are still opened and running. why? because that's how linux manages its resources. instead of having free ram for no use (what's the point of having 14gb of ram when you only use 1gb), linux fills all the ram blocks with useful apps or apps that you are running frequently so that when you call that app, it will bring it on the screen almost instantly. this my friend, is called multitasking.
and no, you are wrong. if you use a task killer killing the apps every 10 minutes, the cycles the whole system does - opening again apps and caching them, task killer closing them - results in much more functions done by CPU => more battery spent. even if you say that the battery life its the same, you are wrong. when using a task killer IT MIGHT drain your battery with 0.1% per hour. it's not that much, but IT EXIST.
oh and yeah, one thing: android has its own task killer. that's why you don't need one app to kill your other apps. because android its doing it by itself. if you don't believe me, strip down one kernel, open the init.rc file and find the values for task killer.
salve.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope u don't mind if I take some of ur message and put it in the op
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That's great.. I liked the article. I qm giving you a thanks for it
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cybervibin said:
I hope u don't mind if I take some of ur message and put it in the op
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sure. no problem mate
soham_sss said:
That's great.. I liked the article. I qm giving you a thanks for it
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Thank you
1ceb0x said:
sure. no problem mate
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task killers were great before 1.6 but useless after that
Lloir said:
task killers were great before 1.6 but useless after that
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+1 android has devloped a long way since!
cybervibin said:
Thank you
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you're welcome!
I'm using task menager when is needed, and also I'm using custom system memory tweaks, it makes my phone running faster and smoother some apps knows to stuck and they keep the phone from entering deep sleep, and that drains the battery, so if you know what are you doing use task menager and customize when what apps the system should kill
Sent from my HTC One V
I have a task killer installed, but only use it manually, ie. if there's a stubborn app that's crashed/frozen/etc and just won't close and is eating the battery
donJim said:
I'm using task menager when is needed, and also I'm using custom system memory tweaks, it makes my phone running faster and smoother some apps knows to stuck and they keep the phone from entering deep sleep, and that drains the battery, so if you know what are you doing use task menager and customize when what apps the system should kill
Sent from my HTC One V
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Click to collapse
Use auto run manager the answer to most of ur problems
qzfive said:
I have a task killer installed, but only use it manually, ie. if there's a stubborn app that's crashed/frozen/etc and just won't close and is eating the battery
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yayyy so task killer only kills my battery
you got that right!
Good to know. Thanks