Related
In short:
Is there a thread somewhere stating the pro's and con's of running Android from different types of "media" (SD, NAND, EXT2)?
If there is, please provide a link, I can't seem to find anything that isn't an unanswered question or small comments.
If there isn't, let this be a starting point for those looking for the answer to this question.
Longer:
I've seen this question pop up once and again but it might be that the topic is totally exhausted and people have stopped commenting on it. I can't seem to find an answer though; What are the pro's and con's of using NAND, EXT2, FAT32 or any combination of it?
I see a couple of installation alternatives and some I have been able to conclude myself but others not.
* Running from SD-card using HaRET
This option is the slowest in terms of Android performance. It has the added value of easily getting back to Windows Mobile by rebooting the phone, gaining easy access to the SD card and manipulation options.
* Running the system AND data on NAND
This option has in my view the fastest Android experience. Access to files on the SD card is a bit more cumbersome (there is the SD card split widget APK available but I have yet to see it working) and access to files for manipulation I can't comment on (haven't gotten to that yet).
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
* Running the system AND data from EXT2
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it. Something tells me it will be slower than NAND because of SD card overhead.
* Running the system from EXT2 and data on NAND
I have not tried this yet and cannot comment on it.
Now, I've missed out on several of the installation options but I'll edit this post as soon as I get to investigating it further.
Any comments/experience/knowledge in this is greatly appreciated, as it can make things clearer as to what options to choose.
Well these are very good question and wanted to start a thread on this matter as well. I also could not find a strait answer anywhere.
I also want to know if there is an advantage using ext2 over fat32.
So, people out there having knowledge about this matter please share it.
Ext2 and Fat32 are both types of filesystem used on various different types of media, including SD card, Hard drives etc.
EXT2 is (one) of the native linux filesystems, and is fully supported in kernel, and is usually faster and more stable in that OS
FAT32 is the 32bit version of the old MSdos filesystem, used up to Windows 98, and still supported by windows machines, but slower and less stable than the native NTFS filesystem used by XP and above.
Nand is actually the type of flash ROM used by our devices, and not a filesystem as such, and running Android in Nand refers to where the information is stored, rather than the filesystem used to store it.
It's equally valid to say that we run WM in Nand also.
I think that in the case of Android EXT2 should be faster and more stable than fat32 since it's designed for Linux, and works better in that OS.
Zenity ik would like to thank you very much as this answers mij questions.
And i think this would many others aswell.
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Thank you all!
Thank you all for commenting! I will add your comments to the Android-wiki I'm building as this question could come back repeatedly from newcomers (and old ones who forgot )!
boli99 said:
Don't forget - if you format your MicroSD to just EXT2 then you will make it very awkward to transfer files to/from the card on a Microsoft Windows based system.
This may, or may not be a problem for you.
Ultimately, the current ideal situation (IMHO) is to run your OS from NAND, and to store your data (music / movies / documents) on a FAT32 format MicroSD - as this enables you to swap the MicroSD card without turning off the device, and provides best cross-platform usability of the MicroSD for the purposes of transferring data to/from it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a program for allowing the mounting of EXT2 file systems on windows, however they are not signed. This is more problematic in Windows that are 64bit. The program is called 'ext2fsd' and you can get it from source forge. EXT2 is a better file system, and does not have the 4GB file size limit, and does not fragment (although on a SD card, this should not be an issue). EXT2 also has file permissions that Linux understands. Fat32 has no Access control file permissions.
I have just recently got polymod's eclair running with both system and data on ext2 partitions.
my question is...
I am just wondering what the boot order is...
and where(if possible) can it be changed?
system.img in the andboot folder VS system on partition.
I know it can be set in the installer. but lets say I had installed system on ext2 partition. and then later placed a system.img in the andboot folder.
can I swap between the two?
OK...
I figured it out myself,
You can use the installer to select boot options (Not just options to install)
so I have a system and data on partitons. (currently using)
and I also have a second build installed to .img files in the andboot folder. (for failsafe backup)
if I want to swap from one into the other
I enter installer and change the settings for the system and data to
their respective locations and then just QUIT.
I also still have a donut build in the android folder. as well as still running winmo.
quad boot system on my phone...LOL
Now thats a neat use of the installer, I think this find deserves it's own thread in fact, I'm certain others will find it useful
Tanks !
binlabin said:
* Running the system from NAND and data on EXT2
The performance seems almost as fast as the system+data on NAND. I have no idea about the added value of running anything from an EXT2-partition in the SD card but I'm guessing it will be slower. I have no idea if file access for manipulation is easier or not compared to the other options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've done some tries with this doing the partitioning from within android and then formatting the FAT32 partition from Windows 7 but the FAT32 partition doesn't work very well afterward. Really slow and sometimes crashes the explorer. Propably something to do with my SD-card. May try doing the partitioning and formatting from Linux to see if it works better.
Seems to me the main advantage of this option is to increase the size of available data storage which i suspect can become a limitation sooner or later in a pure NAND install.
EDIT: Now I've done it and gone NAND-System + EXT2-Data... Partitioned the SD-card from Ubuntu with gparted. Resized the FAT32 partition and created 3 primary EXT2 partitions. only the second (partition 3) should be used though with the setup I am using. It's charging right now so I haven't tried it out much yet but I will later on. However I noticed that I now have 171Mb free phone storage instead of 30-something that I had before (same apps installed).
EDIT2: Ran gparted again and shrinked the unused partition (partition 2) and expanded the data partition (partition 3) so I now have 369Mb free "Internal phone storage". Haven't noticed any speed differences between this and when I had data on NAND.
nand
By then one question:
If im install android in the NAND is more fast ready? But this process erase WM6?
Because now android work good in my HTC TYNT II but the camera and bluetooth not work and have one or two performance problems and for this dont like delete WM6 of my phone, and for this im use Android from my SD.
But look the NAND option because have a problems with the time live of my battery only lasts 5hours with android and SD.
Thanks for your help and cooperation
excellent thread which answers some questions that I had. Thanks to everyone who contributed. The only question remaining though and I have posted this elsewhere without getting an answer:
I partitioned a 2 gb sdcard with ~1.6gb Fat32 and the rest as a single Ext2. I selected system on nand and data on ext2 in the installer. After installation, it does show alot more memory for data as compared to data on nand, BUT I also have a data.img in andboot which is in the Fat32 partition, with a size around 250mb. The question is, is the data in that file or on ext2? If I backup data from installer, it creates a databackup.img in andboot with the same size as data.img. Seems to me the ext2 partition is just taking up space and not being used. Can anyone more knowledgeable shed some light on this? Thanks.
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
zenity said:
Not quite sure what is going on there, seems very counter-intuitive, I would have assumed that system on Nand, data on EXT2 would have installed the data partition to EXT2 on SD. This would seem not to be the case in this instance.
There are a few experiments you could try, if you are brave enough, since you may cause problems by trying any of these suggestions, which could mean a reinstall, I leave it to your judgement how to proceed
Ok firstly I assume you have a card reader, since you managed to partition and format the SD card in the first place. Remove the SD card, insert in card reader, delete the andboot folder, or the contents of the folder, ( may be wise to have a spare SD with either a winmo or android install handy at this point, just in case things go horribly wrong ).
Now with the cleaned SD, put it in the phone and boot, it should boot fine, IF the data is truly on the EXT2 partition.
That at least will answer one question, namely, where the heck is my data?
If this works fine, then I'd just put it down to some inner weirdness of android on non-native devices, if it fails then I'm wondering if your EXT2 partition may have problems, forcing the phone to dump it on the first available good partition, namely the FAT32 one.
Oh and if it does fail, you will have to reinstall, since your data will be toast.
Finally, good luck, I await with interest
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great idea, I'll try this on the weekend. I wont delete data though, I'll just rename andboot and backup data for good measure, because I want to be able to go back to the data by renaming it back if it doesn't work. I was also thinking if there is any way to get to the ext2 partition and read it... I'm on xp so I cant do it on my pc, and on the phone, I've looked around in astro n other file managers but cant see anything. But if the case is as golfnz34me points out, then I should just backup the data, and change the option to Fat32 in install and restore data. That should do the trick.
golfnz34me said:
As I recall, the install has the FAT32/Ext2 options incorrectly swapped. It has been this way for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, will check this out. If its true, then great, more speed for my /data! I wonder how I missed this, been going through these forums regularly...
Ok I checked it out, and golfnz34me is correct it seems.
But now I found a new problem. I backed up data, and in the installer, set the data to SDCard, and tried to restore data. It gives various errors like
Code:
cannot determine filesystem size
failed
failed to format
...some other lines...
losetup: /dev/block/loop2: no such device or address
I created the partition with Paragon partition manager, and after getting this error I rechecked in PPM. I reformated the partition, but still get the error. In PPM the partition drive letter isnt assigned. Or, the partition isnt the active partition. Can one of those be the problem? The volume name is Ext2. Im not very experienced in partitioning etc, apart from normal ntfs partition for new hds in windows, so I didnt play with any options. I dont have a linux system either. Any got any ideas? Any help would be appreciated alot!
Not sure about using partition managers other than gparted, afaik most people are using the Gparted live cd if they don't have a linux install handy.
The errors all point to some sort of problem with the EXT2 partition, or it's formatting.
Also EXT2 partitions do not have drive letters, nor do they have to be active partitions.
Apps and data on SD card.
I cant seem to figure out how to make all the apps and other stuff install to the SD card. Do I have to partition the card into two partitions? or is there a way to install the system to Nand and make all the apps and data go to the SD card? Ive tried setting it to System on nand and data on SD partition but it says no partitions to install to or something.
Title says it all, i'v'e spent the last like 6 hours trying to set up my SD card for apps2sd. I'm using this rom: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=715180&highlight=apps2sd Which does infact support a2sd. Just need help with this SD thing.
I want to set this up by atleast sunday, going on vacation, want to buy a bunch of games for the plane ride.
Help Please!
The easiest way by far is to use GPARTED in Ubuntu.
Just plug your phone up via usb and go.
There is a guide for it somewhere in the slide forums.
As faud said, go to the Ubuntu home page and download the live cd, you can boot straight into Ubuntu without having to install it, and then run gparted.
Is your sd card already formatted with an ext2 partition? If no, by all means use gparted, as the others have said. It will re-partition and re-format the card in one easy step.
If you already have an ext2 partition (and possibly have apps already installed), then one Linux command will do the trick (without destroying what you have on your ext2 partition.)
Code:
#tune2fs -j /dev/<foobar>
Where <foobar> is the device node for your ext2 partition (should be something like sdb or sdc, etc.)
Just use ROM Manager to do it.
Hi everyone,
is there any way to extend an existing ext3-partition (512MB, created with ROM Manager) without loosing the data?
I'm using the DJ Droid 1.1-R1 ROM on a Desire and the internal memory was fine (about 90MB free, no matter what i've installed so far). However after installing a few games today it dropped to a mere 20MB. Is it possible, that the ext3 partition is already completely used and the latest apps were just installed to the internal phone memory?
Thanks for any hint and solution
Best wishes,
hunchi
hunchi said:
Hi everyone,
is there any way to extend an existing ext3-partition (512MB, created with ROM Manager) without loosing the data?
I'm using the DJ Droid 1.1-R1 ROM on a Desire and the internal memory was fine (about 90MB free, no matter what i've installed so far). However after installing a few games today it dropped to a mere 20MB. Is it possible, that the ext3 partition is already completely used and the latest apps were just installed to the internal phone memory?
Thanks for any hint and solution
Best wishes,
hunchi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can expand the ext3 partition on the SD card by using something like gparted (http://gparted.sourceforge.net/livecd.php).
This is probably not your problem though. Although your apps are on the SD card the data is still on the internal memory and this is what is reducing your available memory.
Thanks for the help! Will have a look into gparted once it gets necessary. Indeed, the problem was somewhere else: After I rebooted the free internal memory went back to 85MB. However I have no idea what caused this memory usage and the memory release after the reboot... Anyways, as long as it works, I'm happy
Thx again!
extend partition
The most efficient way to extend partition, you asked, and will not wiping data.
I think, want to finish this work, use Extend Partition Assistant Professional Edition. As I knew, this software has gained the best opinion by the users.
And I have tried several times, certainly flawless.
extend-partition.com/extend-system-boot-partition.html
live said:
The most efficient way to extend partition, you asked, and will not wiping data.
I think, want to finish this work, use Extend Partition Assistant Professional Edition. As I knew, this software has gained the best opinion by the users.
And I have tried several times, certainly flawless.
extend-partition.com/extend-system-boot-partition.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience with Partition assistant is that it will not recognize a SD card, only hard disk.
I also recommend the use of gparted. But before this action you should save all data (very easy with linux, because it does not hide any files). If you do not have any linux, download ubuntu live cd, burn it and start your computer with it:
http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/download
When you connect your phone with your computer, linux should recognize two partitions: The FAT32 partition and the ext partition (you can find out which is which by comparing the partition sizes). Copy their content on an external storage (e.g. an usb stick): Create two folders, one for fat32 and one for ext. Copy the content in the corresponding folders. Partition the sd-card again with gparted or your phone's recovery system. Start your computer with ubuntu live, connect phone to computer and copy the content of the fat32 and ext partition back to the sd card.
Hi,
copy your data to you hard drive and then BU all your app + data with nandroid and titanium backup then extend your partition on windows disc manager and restore everything.
Eran.
eranbaruch said:
Hi,
copy your data to you hard drive and then BU all your app + data with nandroid and titanium backup then extend your partition on windows disc manager and restore everything.
Eran.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will not working. Windows does not support the creating of ext partition (much less the change of it).
I used the GParted GUI utility in Ubuntu. Worked wonders for me!
used gparted also, done twice and no issue. save your data from sd.
to do this i use vmplayer and let run ubuntu distri
fragargon said:
used gparted also, done twice and no issue. save your data from sd.
to do this i use vmplayer and let run ubuntu distri
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you use ubuntu live cd, if you do not want to get used with virtual machines (vm).
@matdroid
i know about live cd even usb... advantage of vmplayer is that you launch it without any reboot while playing with your current OS. nowodays comp are enough powerfull to supporte both environment. give a try
fragargon said:
@matdroid
i know about live cd even usb... advantage of vmplayer is that you launch it without any reboot while playing with your current OS. nowodays comp are enough powerfull to supporte both environment. give a try
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not new to me that computer from today are powerful enough for vms. That's not the point. With live cd's you do not have a running system in background which can disturb. Thats exactly why i use/prefer them. On this way i can concentrate on this one operation very easy. But that's a personal thing.
tool good on pc for fragargon
use MiniTool Partition Wizard Home Edition
Hello,
I'm having a strange issue: at first I partitioned my 8GB SD into 7,4GB FAT32 + 0,6GB ext4 (for A2SD+) but in spite of the A2SD feature I run out of Internal Memory (and couldn't install anything else). Then I resized those partitions (with GPartED live cd in a virtualbox, same as first time), increasing ext4 to 0,9GB: didn't change anything for A2SD+ (still had to uninstall some apps, strange fact is that re-installing the very same ones takes much less space), but I could (and actually still can) see the FAT32 partition from the phone no problem. However, upon Windows 7 connection (both x86 and x64) and select "disk drive mode", I only get a few folders listed and most of them doesn't show up even though I can see everything from internal phone file manager (and I can play music or see pics I can't see from the pc). Any advice? Should I just wipe that? Can I copy the FAT32 files to the computer, somehow, maybe via GpartED live cd?
You should wipe and try this partition method.
Mtd partition: hxxp://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=806321
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Thanks, I do hope I'll figure A2SD+ out soon enough, it has some dark sides I just can't get. And before messing with the MTD method, I'll try a Linux virtualbox to access datas, copy everything, wipe everything on card, format 7GBfat32+1GBext4 and get datas back... hope that'll work!
Good luck
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
This post is for people scared of Linux (like me)
I finally found a way to partition a SD-Card under Windows. I tried more tools, but only one was able to work with SD-Cards. Here's what you need to do:
1. Download and install MiniTool Partition Wizard (google it, i cant post links)
2. Resize original FAT32 partition to make room for the ext3 one. If you have enough space, the data on the card shouldn't be affected, but make a back-up just in case.
3. Create the ext3 partition on the space made available and apply changes
The first partition should be FAT32, and the second ext3, make sure you have them in this order.
Kneros said:
This post is for people scared of Linux (like me)
I finally found a way to partition a SD-Card under Windows. I tried more tools, but only one was able to work with SD-Cards. Here's what you need to do:
1. Download and install MiniTool Partition Wizard (google it, i cant post links)
2. Resize original FAT32 partition to make room for the ext3 one. If you have enough space, the data on the card shouldn't be affected, but make a back-up just in case.
3. Create the ext3 partition on the space made available and apply changes
The first partition should be FAT32, and the second ext3, make sure you have them in this order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Almost all custom partition managers can do this in Windows-Partition Magic, Paragon, Or Gparted with VMWare
They can, but not on SD Card. Windows doesn't support partitions on memory cards. I tried Partition Magic, Paragon, Easeus, none of them work.
I didn't try Gparted with VMWare tho, you might be right about that.
Kneros said:
They can, but not on SD Card. Windows doesn't support partitions on memory cards. I tried Partition Magic, Paragon, Easeus, none of them work.
I didn't try Gparted with VMWare tho, you might be right about that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Paragon works for me on Windows..And Gparted is what I use
Strange, it didn't work for me (see attached pics).
Just install the latest ClockworkMod, or Amon-RA and do it through recovery.
Is it useful to have an ext3 partition on SD card with stock 2.2 rom ?
fblasot said:
Is it useful to have an ext3 partition on SD card with stock 2.2 rom ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's useless, you need a ROM that supports it.
quick question - if I create an ext3 partition using this method or any other way, and then move the apps I had on SD (the old way) back to internal, will it then move them to the ext3 partition automatically? I just want to make sure I have this right myself before I attempt it.
I'm using Oxygen 2.3 ROM RC-6 which supports apps2sd etc.
thanks in advance for any replies.
Kneros said:
Strange, it didn't work for me (see attached pics).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See mine..
I'm using 9.0 Pro, you're using 10.0 server, if that helps..
I still prefer Gparted though..On Vmware.
Choronzonix said:
quick question - if I create an ext3 partition using this method or any other way, and then move the apps I had on SD (the old way) back to internal, will it then move them to the ext3 partition automatically? I just want to make sure I have this right myself before I attempt it.
I'm using Oxygen 2.3 ROM RC-6 which supports apps2sd etc.
thanks in advance for any replies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The a2sd+ script is built in, it executes at installation. Best way would be to use Titanium to backup ur froyo a2sd apps, wipe+install a2sd+ custom rom, use the option of Titanium, to move to sd.
and how do you want to put data on the ext3 partition ? ... you will need linux, its the best way...
Kneros said:
This post is for people scared of Linux (like me)
I finally found a way to partition a SD-Card under Windows. I tried more tools, but only one was able to work with SD-Cards. Here's what you need to do:
1. Download and install MiniTool Partition Wizard (google it, i cant post links)
2. Resize original FAT32 partition to make room for the ext3 one. If you have enough space, the data on the card shouldn't be affected, but make a back-up just in case.
3. Create the ext3 partition on the space made available and apply changes
The first partition should be FAT32, and the second ext3, make sure you have them in this order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EDIT:
Didn't work, SD could not be mounted under Android or Clockworkmod
Did the partitioning under Clockworkmod
partition works, but..
i tried minitool and easueus, both partiotion my 16 gb sd card, but...
I use miui rom, xpart(data2ext). the script works, but the phone is slow as ........
someone any idea?
i also have a 8 gb card, same partitions, but no problem..
any idea how i can tets my 16 gb card?
Minitool is crap. Haven't used easeus but its still under Windows, which is a no no
Gparted is the only decent tool that will nicely partition an ext partition on your sd whilst aligning it properly. This is both my personal and professional opinion.
Now because it doesn't run in windows, its a bit more long winded but so much more worth while.
Virtual machine (vmware player) is the best method. There is a link to a guide to set this up in my signature
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Kneros said:
This post is for people scared of Linux (like me)
I finally found a way to partition a SD-Card under Windows. I tried more tools, but only one was able to work with SD-Cards. Here's what you need to do:
1. Download and install MiniTool Partition Wizard (google it, i cant post links)
2. Resize original FAT32 partition to make room for the ext3 one. If you have enough space, the data on the card shouldn't be affected, but make a back-up just in case.
3. Create the ext3 partition on the space made available and apply changes
The first partition should be FAT32, and the second ext3, make sure you have them in this order.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Minitool partition wizard is a wonderful and practical software. Thanks!!