Related
If the point of HAVS if to regulate voltage, etc. Wouldn't using SetCPU, well profiles in SetCPU, work with HAVS? Example:
I have a profile set to minimize frequencies from 128-245 mhz when screen is off. If HAVS worked with these frequencies to lower voltage, wouldn't keeping the frequency threshold between those two numbers keep HAVS maintaining a lower voltage?
I see a lot of people saying not to use SetCPU profiles with kernels that include HAVS, but never really explanation why.
Also, If one would decide to only use a profile while the phone was charging, that would have no effect on HAVS when the phone is unplugged, correct? I want to be able to switch the CPU governor to ondemand while the phone is charging so I can get the maximum performance, but when it's not charging to just go back to the kernel default, which is conservative. If using profiles negatively effects the performance of HAVS, can I just use a charging profile without negatively effecting HAVS?
Explanations people!
Snap 7.6 (which has nHAVS) works fine with SetCPU, and you're encouraged to use SetCPU. I don't know where you're seeing this "Don't use SetCPU!" stuff, but it's probably just people who are trying to prevent a deluge of complaints about their phones acting wonky.
Use SetCPU. The worst that can happen... Is your phone acts wonky/poor battery life. Make sure to NOT check the "Set at boot" options in SetCPU while you're testing!
drmacinyasha said:
Snap 7.6 (which has nHAVS) works fine with SetCPU, and you're encouraged to use SetCPU. I don't know where you're seeing this "Don't use SetCPU!" stuff, but it's probably just people who are trying to prevent a deluge of complaints about their phones acting wonky.
Use SetCPU. The worst that can happen... Is your phone acts wonky/poor battery life. Make sure to NOT check the "Set at boot" options in SetCPU while you're testing!
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Click to collapse
Figured as much. Thanks!
Ya know, I never understood why people were saying not to use SetCPU with HAVS kernels either especially since, like, for example, Calkulin highly recommends SetCPU for use with his ROM and that comes packed with Kings #10 nowadays. I figure if Calk (or any other reputable ROM/kernel dev) says to do it he's probably saying it for your benefit. Now, on to find a real reason as to why or why not
I think that what is meant is that you don't have to use SetCPU because HAVS already reduces voltage to the processor when it isn't being used. Using SetCPU profiles won't mess anything up, but it is redundant to do so if the HAVS kernel is already controlling the amount of juice that goes into the processor at any given time.
Please note this is a hypothesis. I am not an expert by any means. If someone knows any better, please clarify, because I have been curious about this, too.
rugedraw said:
I think that what is meant is that you don't have to use SetCPU because HAVS already reduces voltage to the processor when it isn't being used. Using SetCPU profiles won't mess anything up, but it is redundant to do so if the HAVS kernel is already controlling the amount of juice that goes into the processor at any given time.
Please note this is a hypothesis. I am not an expert by any means. If someone knows any better, please clarify, because I have been curious about this, too.
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It makes sense, but isn't HAVS only a voltage regulator? Using SetCPU to lower frequencies should theoretically compliment HAVS especially with screen off profiles as to keep the voltage low with HAVS, and frequencies low with SetCPU. I know that Android/CPUs clock down when idle or when the screen is off, but their maximum frequencies aren't lowered as well are they? Using SetCPU to set a maximum frequency that's low should be even better. That's my take anyway.
Here is a comparison someone did with SetCPU and various kernels and went so far as to say they've read several places that using SetCPU in conjunction with 'newer' kernels may be counterproductive, since the inclusion of HAVS. However, I haven't been able to find that many posts to backup this claim. That or I just suck at searching. lol
http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-all-things-root/179761-kernels-setcpu-battery-comparison.html
I'll run a test
hayabusa1300cc said:
i use the dc compaitble one and i love it the best
there is one i want to try today, its
netarchy-toastmod-5.0-cfs-havs-preview-universal-signed
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Okay. Been running the Netarchy CFS HAVS 4.1.9.1 universal kernal in conjunction with set cpu and using Virus Anthrax v4.....battery life is bad so far. I don't know how it could be better on anyone else's phone either. I have set CPU set to minimal settings (profiles) and conservative. My up time (display)has been around an 45 min total. One call and a couple of MMS sent. My power manager settings keep the screen set to 80 on battery power. Total time 7 hours with 32 percent remaining.
Wifi, 4G, GPS, and push are TURNED OFF. Nothing that drains battery above normal system apps, is running.
This is not a good Kernal UNLESS........its because I just started using it this morning with my first run through of the battery being fully charged and the stats reset at the time of full charge.
So the question is:
How long should we run a kernal after:
1. Installing it
2. Starting with fresh 100% battery charge
3. Wiping battery stats.
Does it need one drain and one full charge before you throw the kernal to the dogs?
Should set CPU be disabled / uninstalled after HAVS kernals are flashed? I think I remember reading somewhere that you should not use set CPU with HAVS kernals. It doesnt make sense to me as set CPU sets the clock frequency and HAVS is for voltage scaling?
Im going to try and recharge the phone tonight after full run down and disable the set on boot setting for set CPU.
Anyone have any answer on this?
-JZ
Well my understanding is that havs and setcpu do the same thing sorta, depending on how you set your profiles up. Because havs underclocks while the screen is off, which can be done with setcpu, and if you set setcpu to conservative then you might be getting the same affect you would get from havs. Having them both run is like overkill, your phone would be doing double the work for the same results.
Battery still gonna be a pain while the screen is on so it's not like both of these will drastically increase battery life while in use. It'll just manage the battery alot better while the phone is idle.
ms79723 said:
Well my understanding is that havs and setcpu do the same thing sorta, depending on how you set your profiles up. Because havs underclocks while the screen is off, which can be done with setcpu, and if you set setcpu to conservative then you might be getting the same affect you would get from havs. Having them both run is like overkill, your phone would be doing double the work for the same results.
Battery still gonna be a pain while the screen is on so it's not like both of these will drastically increase battery life while in use. It'll just manage the battery alot better while the phone is idle.
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Hmm.. I should probably do some more reading on HAVS, because if it is responsible for regulating clock frequencies as well, then it would be counterproductive. HOWEVER, if HAVS does indeed regulate clock frequencies, the question would be what is the minimum/maximum frequency that our current HAVS kernel allows when the phone is asleep or idle? Because on my SetCPU profile, it is 128/245MHz for screen off.
freeza said:
Hmm.. I should probably do some more reading on HAVS, because if it is responsible for regulating clock frequencies as well, then it would be counterproductive. HOWEVER, if HAVS does indeed regulate clock frequencies, the question would be what is the minimum/maximum frequency that our current HAVS kernel allows when the phone is asleep or idle? Because on my SetCPU profile, it is 128/245MHz for screen off.
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I don't set my set cpu that low because, again......I read this somewhere....., set CPU with frequencies below 384 will disable the WIFI. Sounds wacky.....I know...if there is any truth to this let me know. I guess I could check to see if the WIFI enables after the screen off.....eg....its looking for the ip....
Great idea on a thread OP. Its obvious we need a place to gather some real information from reliable sourses on:
1. SET CPU and its use with newer Kernals / Kernals with HAVS in them
2. Are the newer kernals so evolved that set CPU is no longer needed. (I'd love that as Im a bit tired of setting my profiles every time I flash a ROM)
jasonziter said:
I don't set my set cpu that low because, again......I read this somewhere....., set CPU with frequencies below 384 will disable the WIFI. Sounds wacky.....I know...if there is any truth to this let me know. I guess I could check to see if the WIFI enables after the screen off.....eg....its looking for the ip....
Great idea on a thread OP. Its obvious we need a place to gather some real information from reliable sourses on:
1. SET CPU and its use with newer Kernals / Kernals with HAVS in them
2. Are the newer kernals so evolved that set CPU is no longer needed. (I'd love that as Im a bit tired of setting my profiles every time I flash a ROM)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have my WiFi turned on and connected to my home network all the time and have never noticed it shutting itself off or disconnecting with my frequencies that low
I don't think SetCPU will ever be obsolete unless devs compile a kernel that can automatically do the following:
-set max frequency to higher than default. (but probably wont for max compatibility reasons, since no evos are made equal and that said frequency is guaranteed to work with all evos.)
-set minimum frequency to the lowest possible without adverse reaction.
-dynamically change governor based on either charge state/load state/or remaining battery life.
-dynamically change max/min clock frequencies based on either charge state/or remaining battery life.
SetCPU will probably always be in my bag of must haves, BUT if there is proof that using profiles negatively effects HAVS, I will just remove the screen off profile. With netarchy's 4.1.9.1cfs kernel, conservative governor is the default, and SetCPU allows me to change governor to ondemand with a profile of charging/full. This is perfect.
Speaking of HAVS and SetCPU, a snippet from the common misconceptions thread:
If using a kernel with HAVS, you do not need SetCPU to under clock. That is exactly what HAVS does, lowers voltages when your phone is idling. You are defeating the purpose by using SetCPU. This is why Kingklick himself tells everyone not to use SetCPU with his kernels.
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http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=790427
There's quite a bit of information in the Ultimate Kernel Review here ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=790559
In a recent post, the author (skydeaner), posts his own personal settings which include Kings #9 (havs) and SetCPU ...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=8465730&postcount=104
Nice post man. Finally... some real info to use. I think I'm going to airborne virus with kk9.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
One King hasn't said to NOT use SetCPU, he said that setting profiles in it might interfere with his kernels sometimes and cause a slight conflict. You still have to use setcpu for overclocking your phone.
Also this snipit is from the other well known Dev in his Rom thread.
Calkulin said:
I think some people have forgotten what HAVS/AVS actually do. They voltage scale based on CPU speed, so SetCPU shouldn't interfere with HAVS/AVS since it can only control CPU speed/governor not voltage.
Now if SetCPU gets updated and starts controlling voltage then we'll see issues with HAVS/AVS kernels
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palmdude said:
Calc thanks! But for simple people like us could clarify what it is better in terms of battery life, setcpu installed or uninstalled (on king#10)?
This is what we were guessing/debating
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Caulkin said:
Installed since it gives you better control over which governor to use and the parameters for that governor. Plus let's not forget the benefit of profiles which if done right, will improve performance & battery life.
But on a side note, here's what I've noticed for the 2 main kernels here on my phone
King's kernel is better on battery life but Netarchy's kernel has a better overall smoothness feel
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sgt. slaughter said:
One King hasn't said to NOT use SetCPU, he said that setting profiles in it might interfere with his kernels sometimes and cause a slight conflict. You still have to use setcpu for overclocking your phone.
Also this snipit is from the other well known Dev in his Rom thread.
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Click to collapse
+1 on all of those points.
I just got my Evo not too long ago, so I am still trying to figure out all of the SetCPU/HAVS/OC/UV nonsense to try and optimize my battery.
I am trying to translate all of the information this thread provides (plus all linked threads and relevant searches) in to stupid (the only language I understand)
HAVS and SetCPU can be used together (in theory) because
HAVS only effects voltage
SetCPU only effects processor speed
Anecdotally HAVS is a little wonkier than a non-HAVS kernel (from a benchmarking perspective)
Anecdotally HAVS and SetCPU have not returned the expected increase in battery life (possibly due to redundancy)
All should be taken with a grain of salt as each evo is a little different
In theory, Kings or Netarchy + SetCPU should equal great battery life when on standby (and depending on OC options should help when in use as well)
---
Is that an adequate translation to stupid?
Psichi said:
I just got my Evo not too long ago, so I am still trying to figure out all of the SetCPU/HAVS/OC/UV nonsense to try and optimize my battery.
I am trying to translate all of the information this thread provides (plus all linked threads and relevant searches) in to stupid (the only language I understand)
HAVS and SetCPU can be used together (in theory) because
HAVS only effects voltage
SetCPU only effects processor speed
Anecdotally HAVS is a little wonkier than a non-HAVS kernel (from a benchmarking perspective)
Anecdotally HAVS and SetCPU have not returned the expected increase in battery life (possibly due to redundancy)
All should be taken with a grain of salt as each evo is a little different
In theory, Kings or Netarchy + SetCPU should equal great battery life when on standby (and depending on OC options should help when in use as well)
---
Is that an adequate translation to stupid?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well without the kernels, setcpu can help a lot when on standby. But Havs is now being focused on when the screen is on, and undervolting to help save battery while you are currently using your phone. Check out Netarchy's universal kernels, the more aggressive undervolting ones and then go to one of king's kernels and you'll see a huge difference between battery drain while the phone is on from the kernels. The more aggressive undervolting kernels hold on to that battery like there's no tomorrow.
[Q] Paradox with underclock & battery savings, does it actually hurt? SetCPU, etc.
In theory, using SetCPU or other underclocking app to reduce CPU clock should reduce the power draw from the CPU, therefore reducing battery consumption.
However, underclocking does not reduce the amount of work that needs to be done. That is to say, whatever app or kernel processing that needs to be done will still be done. When UC'ed, they will be done at a slower pace, therefore taking longer time. In some cases, the UI becomes sluggish, requiring more user interaction time as well.
If, at 1Ghz, a process takes 10 seconds to complete and requires 10mA per second. This task should consume 100mA. By underclocking to 500mHz, perhaps the CPU takes only 6mA, but the task will require 20 seconds to complete. Now the task actually takes 120mA (plus the longer screen on time).
Is my theory sound?
Also, does the constant scaling itself consume power?
As far as I know, Froyo is supposed to scale the CPU anyway. So why underclock? Does it actually work or does it hurt the battery life?
Input please!
Thanks.
Edit: I know the function of CPU speed vs. efficiency vs. battery drain is never linear, and each situation has a different break-even point, but I'm curious the general application of underclocking within the Android environement and its effect on battery life, and more specifically, the Evo.
i'm a regular dude with a phone, but im educated...that being said im sure your aware of the diminishing marginal utitlity law. For example if me and you can mow a lawn in 2 hours, and we got one more guy, we can do it in in less than two...Bu you eventually reach a breakoff point where it is hurting you and those extra guy(s) are not needed and acutally slow down the process or are just a waste. Same thing here, although i am not sure of the numbers, im positive there is a sweet spot for underclock and if you go too low it actually is a waste or hurts battery life. It also could be in the middle meaning, im going to make up numbers. 1ghz uses 100 Mah in 10 seconds. 800 mhz used 50 mah. 900 uses 60 mah. Now, the difference ratio of battery usuage and spees would lean you towards using 900 because if you relate this to sales on products or even anything, for lack of better words this setting is the best abng for your buck...my 2 cents
http://www.google.com/m/url?client=...IQFjAA&usg=AFQjCNFlNlZCm-gnvD1PzEsDezCIPeA8jQ
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Interesting stuff... Take a look at this thread:
[ROOT] Using SetCPU + Perflock Disabler to Save Battery, Underclock
The data seem to suggest that underclocking an Evo at idle yields real results. I would think that this can only work if there is not a lot of background/idle tasks going on?
snovvman said:
Interesting stuff... Take a look at this thread:
[ROOT] Using SetCPU + Perflock Disabler to Save Battery, Underclock
The data seem to suggest that underclocking an Evo at idle yields real results. I would think that this can only work if there is not a lot of background/idle tasks going on?
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both pics depicts very different device usages. not a fair comparison imo.
quocamole said:
both pics depicts very different device usages. not a fair comparison imo.
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Yea I went through and read the whole thread. I'm now even less convinced that SetCPU provides any tangible battery benefits at all.
snovvman said:
Yea I went through and read the whole thread. I'm now even less convinced that SetCPU provides any tangible battery benefits at all.
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Do you think i am right on any part of which i said or am i talking out of my arse lol
A microprocessor does not live by its clock alone. lol
It can cycle through a huge math operation, which is loaded into its registers lickity split with a fast clock. It will have to wait while the memory/code of the programs it runs are loaded either into its cache memory or into execution space. So in calculating theoretical energy use, you got to figure the bus speed, as well as the type of operations the processor is doing.
Golly, ( pronounced like a resident of Mayberry) the bus is key on loading programs to be run. What's the bus clock triggered off? That's the key. You don't want the bus to slow while slowing the cpu. If you can cycle the processor while it prefetches then you've got optimal use, providing it isn't thrashing.
Google cpu wait states for bus synchronization
This is basically the reason HAVS is supposed to be better than static scaling and underclocking. With HAVS, voltage is based on workload as well as clock speed, so you should get the benefits of running fast/idling more often combined with the benefits of using as low of a voltage as possible. As long as you don't have something pegging the CPU at 100% all the time in the background, it should, in theory, work better.
In practice, I haven't seen all that much of a difference.
iitreatedii said:
i'm a regular dude with a phone, but im educated...that being said im sure your aware of the diminishing marginal utitlity law. For example if me and you can mow a lawn in 2 hours, and we got one more guy, we can do it in in less than two...Bu you eventually reach a breakoff point where it is hurting you and those extra guy(s) are not needed and acutally slow down the process or are just a waste. Same thing here, although i am not sure of the numbers, im positive there is a sweet spot for underclock and if you go too low it actually is a waste or hurts battery life. It also could be in the middle meaning, im going to make up numbers. 1ghz uses 100 Mah in 10 seconds. 800 mhz used 50 mah. 900 uses 60 mah. Now, the difference ratio of battery usuage and spees would lean you towards using 900 because if you relate this to sales on products or even anything, for lack of better words this setting is the best abng for your buck...my 2 cents
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iitreatedii said:
Do you think i am right on any part of which i said or am i talking out of my arse lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What you wrote makes sense and the concept is sound. I just wish we knew what that sweet spot is, although I think it changes constantly based on load, code, and operational requirements.
With the two posts above, it would seem like phone manufactures would do everything they can to optimize efficiency. Having SetCPU loaded for 24 hours, I too, can say that I have not seen a huge difference...
Noxious Ninja said:
This is basically the reason HAVS is supposed to be better than static scaling and underclocking. With HAVS, voltage is based on workload as well as clock speed, so you should get the benefits of running fast/idling more often combined with the benefits of using as low of a voltage as possible. As long as you don't have something pegging the CPU at 100% all the time in the background, it should, in theory, work better.
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Does the stock HTC kernel, 2.6.32 "#11" have/use HAVS?
hey guys, just wondering will using a lower vsel damage my cpu and/or battery?
i have previously beein using milestone overclock on 1ghz and 60 vsel and am adding setvsel into the mix, also any ideas on starter settings? thanks
also could someone just give me a heads up on what vsel actually IS
I don't believe there are any studies that show effects of long term use of lowering the voltage, which is what you are doing with vsel in order to save battery juice...or you could increase the voltage but that defeats the purpose and also heats up the battery which leads to shorter life span. Many use it without reporting any damage to battery or cpu, I believe it's safe (however, if you are overheating you might fry the battery or cpu, so you'll need to moniter and play with settings to get the desired effect without any overheating issues).
With regards to setvsel, there are reported issues from users with different roms...from what I've read (and you can do your own research to see if this is what you are seeing...this is the conclusion that I've come to by reading a lot of threads), it is better to use milestone to overclock and setcpu to lower the vsel.
With that being said, I've used them all and like setvsel so keep going back to it...but I've been having some issues lately so I've removed setvsel to see if that is what is causing some problems (too early to tell).
Oh, and as for settings...pop on the overclocking/undervolting thread in the development section to see a lot of different settings and remember that what works for one user might not work for you...you'll have to experiment a bit to find your ideal setting.
oh okay i think i might go back to my old settings with milestone overclock and setcpu and just lower the vsel! i was under the impression for some reason that lowering the vsel would heat the battery. Thanks!
I'm no expert to be honest, I'm more of a research kinda person. From what I've researched, undervolting can help keep temps down, and may particularly help when you overclock (as overclocking is stressing the cpu to go beyond it's normal operating design hence it may heat up...supplying it with less power, or voltage, is what helps keep the temps down.
Of course, this is given you find the optimal setting for your phone, and as it seems from reading through these forums, many users have experienced completely different results using the same settings (i.e., one user will have a stable setting without any problems while another user on the same rom using the same settings will have crashes and/or issues like overheating). Doesn't seem right, but it is what it is
yeah ive read through most of that stuff too, i went down to 1ghz at 51 vsel, seeming stable, but i decided to go with 54 anyway
1.1 GHz @ Stock vsel for over a month without any issues...I hope it lasts.
Sent from my MB525 using XDA App
Hi,
I've also read a lot regarding the underclocking 'dangers' but couldn't find anything to prove that there is such an issue. I think that it is an urban myth spread everywhere by people asking if there is a danger with low vsel [but that are never getting a positive answer on it].
The only thing I found using setvSel is that I had to first install Milestone Overclock and load its module prior to start setvsel. There is a way around it, but requires you to copy files in the system folders and change their permissions. I find that my way is much easier.
As far as over-heating goes, it's an overclocking thing; not underclocking.
My Defy is set at 900Mhz and really, I don't see the point of going much higher: everything runs smooth and lag free already.
vsel: 21/300; 32/600; 43/900 - 90% up_threshold
Been like that for about a month now and never experienced any problem at all.
The underclocking is great for saving battery; no exact numbers to give here but it feels like my battery now last 2 times longer. I can easily get 4 days between charges with low/moderate usage and would get to 6+ days "IF" I could stay away from games and having the screen ON for long sessions of browsing/video watching.
I tried SetCpu before but I didn't like the interface; the simplicity of SetvSel is really nice.
i use setcpu for scaling and profiles, and run 18/300, 36/600, 50/1000 stable and smooth as
Undervolting is not a bad thing at all. It means less Watts consumed for running (Watts = Voltage x Amperage), less of your battery consumed.
Ussually companies test a large batch of components and how they react on different voltages and freqvencies, and then they decide for a voltage that works with all components and that is safe for all cases. Eg. when they have different CPU speeds and thus different options for CPU's this is one way to decide which one work at 3GHz and which one at 2.7 GHz (the other one is demand for components).
Phisically you will not have any problems and you can't damage your phone by undervolting, so no problem here, only possible software problems if you go too low.
Advantages :
+ Lower processor temperature
+ Lower phone temperature
+ Longer battery time
+ Longer components life
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)
maxi2mc said:
Disadvantages
- Stability issues (freeze, artefacts, slowness)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know, I was recording a video and when playing back noticed that there were squiggly lines that went through the video a couple of times (in a two minute clip). This was the first time I saw this...and have recently lowered vsel by 2 on vsel3...could that be the artifacts that you are mentioning?
I just figured it perhaps I was too bouncy with the phone while recording making it glitch...but now that I see this post I'm thinking maybe I undervolted too much...what do you think?
My settings: 54/1000 44/700 28/300
I know what people mean by same settings don't work for every phone even if it's the exact same model. My Defy won't underclock as much as others. I'm using SetVesel, and I've been able to drop 5 points from each, and that's about it before it reboots itself. I only tested undervolting, but I mainly overclock to get as much speed as I can, and give it enough juice to run super fast. I'm current running [email protected], [email protected], [email protected] Threshold at 75%. The highest the temp ever got was 112F, and that was after playing a game for about an hour. Usually it stays below 90F for normal use. I get around 17-20 hours out of it with screen on time at about 3 hours @ 50% brightness. I've been running these settings about a month, and have not had any issues.
If you put something like 100vsel will the phone accept and then burn? Is there any protection? Does anyone know what's the highest acceptable vsel?
Just for curiosity...
im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable
stewi21 said:
im pretty sure 80 is the highest you should EVER use and that'll significantly increase the chances of your phone burning out. @bobbyphoenix you should be able to lower your vsels a fair bit or your really unlucky! i run a lower vsel for 1ghz than u do for 700mhz smooth and stable
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Click to collapse
CM7, rather non-technical person here. I seem to have a very happy phone at setvsel settings of [email protected], [email protected], [email protected], 86%. Been running this for the month or so since I rooted and the phone feels like it was made for this config. I've never seen the temp above ~32c. My 2¢.
Android 4.2.1
CyanogenMod 10.1 Snapshot M1 (21/1/13)
Franco Kernel R364
I'm trying to maximize my battery time.
(Power mode BeastlyBattery 192MHz~1036MHz, Governor: Lazy, IO Scheduler: deadline, Screen of Max Frew: 384MHz)
I want to UV my CPU (and maybe IVA and GPU also, does it helps too?) to save some battery.
Should I just decrease the voltage a bit, use stability test app and keep going till there will be errors,
or I can just decrease like someone else on the web and then keep going..?
Can it do something to the device? (because Its just undervoltage..)
For how long I need to run the stability test?
I saw this topic:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1599025
and he says:
"1. It has been tested that the 700Mhz frequency is prefereable over the 300Mhz one, due to the drops on frequency signal of the phone."
Anyone tested this?
Does UV degrades preformance?
What is SmartFlex?
Anything else I need to know about that?
Im gonna make this one quick, so my apologies if I don't address your questions directly.
Prior to my Galaxy Nexus, I had a T-Mobile SGSII. I too had the belief that undervolting/clocking would improve my battery life substantially. It seemed to work but then I was only getting the results that I wanted to get, and thats because I went to extremes to lowering my screen brightness to minimum and using my phone a fraction of what I used to.
With the help of others and trial and error, my major conclusion is that undervolting/clocking, though normal headset use will not improve your battery life by a landslide. Android is so well optimized to save you as much battery as it can. Sure there are things here in there that interrupt that optimization such as bugs or kernel issues but that something even undervolting/clocking will not be able to solve.
If you do go into undervolting/clocking your device, please keep in mind that the most you will probably get out of it is maybe 45 minutes to 1hr extension, but thats not display time.
What you can do to improve your battery life is turn off whatever sync services you don't use, lower your screen brightness ( the display is the major battery hog in the GN and SAMOLED devices), use dark wallpapers and dark themes if apps support it, use wifi, disable 3G when not in use. The radio you use can also potentially affect your battery life and signal quality.
Those are just a few suggestions, the rest is up to you.
Good luck!
P.S. Kernels also add variation to the longevity of your battery life. It's been a very long time since I touched CM10 so I'm not gonna go and defame that ROM but do try something else that possibly offers better battery life. If MODs are a MUST for you, then you will be faced with a lower battery life compared to stock based ROM's. It won't be an extreme difference but the difference will be there. If I may suggest a ROM, try this one. I can honestly say I can get up to 3-4 hours of display time on it with about a 12 hour standby.
I read a lot on the web that it does help to battery time.. :S
anyone?
You're not going to see much difference. Running the cpu at a lower clock speed just means it will take longer to complete the same operation so you'll use just as much battery.
063_XOBX said:
You're not going to see much difference. Running the cpu at a lower clock speed just means it will take longer to complete the same operation so you'll use just as much battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And undervoltage?
Different overnor?
Undervolting will have minimal effect during actual use and a governor is based on specific user needs. One might save me battery while another works better for your usage. You need to actually mess with setting instead of just asking others what they use.
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
AFAIK Microsoft intended to fit an innovative kind of heat sink into their Lumia 950 and finally produced a standard design w/o particular cooling devices due to difficulties.
I have no clue how anything could be done. Except replacing the back cover with something thicker, offering room for heatsinks, fans, peltier elements or such.
But the Note should at least have thermal throttling and emergency shutdown features, like all current phones, which will throttle within the first half minute under full load.
franzli said:
Hi all!
I have been noticing that the tablet can get fairly hot where the CPU is, and under load it can reach fairly high temperatures - CPU prime got it up to over 90°C for me to the extent that I had to shut it down.
To be honest, it doesn't really impede normal usage, and normally it seems to reach slightly over 70°C under higher workloads. I suppose that's not unheard of for ARM devices and might not actually count as overheating. But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures - potentially, that should also lead to more stable and fluid running under high loads, as there won't be any need for throttling, and it might also be good for the components to keep temps lower.
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? @thebadwrench has recently posted a very useful guide about swapping the battery with a rare shot of the inside of the tablet: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=66124495&postcount=13
I was thinking what the most sensible way could be to improve cooling of the CPU, which should be the small shielded unit in the lower centre of the second picture. People seem to have had good results with copper, but it seems fairly crowded in there and it might be hard to get it installed without shortening anything.
Aside of the more practical question, I'd also be interested in the typical temperature that other people's tablet reaches and if you have any better apps than CPU prime to produce high CPU load - possibly one that shows CPU temperature at the same time as well? Currently, I'm having another app running to check CPU temp (CPU prime for some reason only shows the battery temp).
Looking forward to everyone's answers!
PS: @mods Not sure if this is the right section of the forum, feel free to move if you feel it fits better elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Thanks for your answers so far!
@lecorbusier yes, I suspect it has throttling, but in the interest of better running it would be nice to avoid throttling when possible. I'm not sure about the effect on battery life - throttling might be good in that a reduced frequency might need less energy, but running hot in the first place is probably bad for battery life.
In fact, part of my problem might stem from either the ROM or some apps I am running - Squid on temasek's CM13. Maybe I just never noticed this before, or didn't use squid so often, but I've noticed that the last couple of days CPU gets up to over 70°C at times with just some writing in squid. Not sure if this is normal, will probably post it in the CM13 thread. But my general idea/wish to improve cooling still stands independently of that.
Similar temperatures are note uncommon in mine. One suggestion is to use a small desktop fan and aim it down at the tablet when your demanding alot from the cpu. I sometimes do that with mine and it actually brings the temperature down about 15 degrees. Its not a mod, but it does work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds like an effective method (and I guess in a way one might call it a mod ). I'm thinking about something more portable, and hence passive though.
I will probably try opening up and having a look at the current cooling mechanism to see if adding a copper shim or a better silicone heat sink etc. might help things. Another consideration would be a modded case that contains some metal instead of plastic on the back side. That might help to take away some of the heat even though the plastic back of the device itself probably remains a poor heat conductor. Might be a complicated mod, but I'll see if I can come up with a way to do that. If/when I manage to get something done, or some new thoughts, I will advise here.
Any further input of course still very welcome!
Metal will disturb the various antennas.
A back cover replacement containing one or two fans, adding 1 to 2cms of thickness, and draining the battery with the fans while looking clumsy, thats the "best" solution I could imagine.
Or a back cover replacement containing one or two copper plates, cut and arranged in a way that the antennas aren't too handicapped. Probably you have to remove the various EMI shields to be able to establish direct contact between the chipset and the plates. That is, if the chips don't have contact with the shield plates.
I think this will be something never been done before, but probably after.
Like the battery mod for phones, where you solder one battery together with a second one and cut a hole in the back cover, that the now double-thick battery may fit. That's already been done.
Good point about the antennae, I hadn't thought about that! That also makes sense of the lack of metal cases (facepalm). Might still try modding a case with some metal in some spots at some points, but good to keep in mind how this might impact wifi and bluetooth.
My plan was to see if there'd be a chance to fit some slim copper plates in strategic position on top of the CPU inside the normal case. I'll have to open it up and see how much, if any, space there is - but will probably try this first on a Galaxy Tab S 8.4 that I rely on less for productivity (and that does actually get way to hot, to the point of self-shutdown). Whenever I find the time that is...
Will report when I get around to doing anything on the Note (and might open a topic at the Tab S forum in case I do try a mod there first).
I added a copper shim for cooling to my Galaxy Tab S (will put a more detailed post on that forum when I find some time), which seems to have helped to control temperatures somewhat better. I had two odd crashes, but had some before I did the mod, so am relatively confident that's a problem of the ROM rather than my mod.
Will probably try it on my Note as well soon and report here for anyone who might be interested.
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
franzli said:
Have modded my Note now, and am planning to post a more detailed description some time (won't have time before next month though). It had clearly improved temperatures and stability of my Tab S, but I'm not sure how much of a difference it made on the Note 10.1 2014 because I didn't measure the baseline temperatures before the mod right (used CPU Prime benchmark which seems to have general stability issues on the temasek ROM I'm using).
Currently, I have idle temperatures of around 30C, under normal use it would get to 40-50C, and under stress (app StabilityTest) it goes up to around 89/90C after 5min and to 92/93C after 10min.
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the update. I did some baseline checks for you, using the same StabilityTest app for consistancy purposes. I am also on temaseks build, cm13 more specifically. I run temaseks 12.1 build just as often as the cm13, so I will run the tests there as well. I revert back to my stock rooted kitkat rom about 1 or 2 days per week so I'll check the temps on that ROM as well.
So, at idle I'm a little warmer than you, hovering between 37C and 40C. Under normal use (like web browsing) I'm between 50C and no higher than 57C. Under stress (again, using same app) I was at 90C at 5 minutes and 91C after 10 minutes. So slightly warmer on low end, nearly identical on the big end. I have the samsung flip cover thats specifically made to fit the 2014 edition on mine, so that could account for my slightly warmer temps. Its worth noting that when gaming on a VERY cpu demanding game, I never reach anything above 78C. Its probably one of the top 10 most cpu demanding games on play store and BY FAR the most I ever demand from my CPU, consuming a whooping 1.5-2Gb of RAM at times.
I'll check the numbers on my other 2 normally used ROMs here in the next few hours and I'll post those results too :good:
On a side note, my galaxy s6 phone (completely stock, near new) averages nearly indentical cpu temps and after researching the matter on it, I found that those temps (on the s6) are what others are getting as well. So it seems that, generally speaking, samsungs might just run with warmer temperatures. I did see somewhere that 100C is kinda the 'YIKES!' point for them and that they start clocking down around that temp to prevent permanent damage
franzli said:
I'd be quite interested in what temperatures other people get on their devices without any modification?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I've done some testing with a few different ROMs and I think you might be as susprised with the results as I am. First of all I need to correct myself in my last post. The initial testing I did was on temaseks unofficial CM12.1 build, not on the CM13 build. I have now tested on temaseks cm 12.1 and cm13 builds, my stock rooted & debloated 4.4.2 ROM and an old nandroid backup I have of hyperdrives 4.4.2 ROM. Heres what I found...
Temaseks CM13 build ran the hottest and was by far the most stressful on the processors and therefore ran the hottest. It consistantly kept the CPU clocked at near max (even when set to "ondemand"), whether needed or not (with no background process running) and would only reduce power when forced via CPU governor or was at the safety threshold for temperature, which I can now comfortably say is about 95C. Tablet was slightly warm to the touch at idle with a temperature of between 50C & 55C. Under moderate load temperature jumped very raidly to the mid 80C range and then would stay there pretty steadily. Under heavy load, CPU temp quickly peaked at 94C where while watching the CPU output, it was obvious the CPUs were going in & out of protection mode as they would drop to 1600MHz, then peak at 1900MHz, 1600MHz, 1900MHz & repeat this. I didnt let this go on for more than about 2 min before shutting down and allowing tablet to cool.
Next, I repeated tests on both touchwiz based kitkat ROMs I have backups for. 1 of them is stock, rooted, debloated and un"tweaked". The other is stock, rooted, debloated and tweaked. Both ran MUCH cooler, peaking at 80C & 82C. These were ocassional spikes and actually averaged around 75C when under heavy load. Now comes the good news...
I have identified a major contributor of excessive CPU temps. When testing on the touchwiz ROMs and observing CPU clocking in relation to CPU temps, I found that the governors are set lower in these touchwiz ROMs. They were a steady 1300MHz with the occasional 1600MHz spike. They averaged 55C to 63C under moderate load and when under heavy load never reached more than 82C.
So, I am now back on my long time daily driver, temaseks cm12. 1 build and I'm ditching the CM13 build entirely. At least for now. I have set my CPU governors down to 1300MHz and with heavy load for nearly 30 minutes (gaming) my CPU peaked at 85C. So my findings were that CM ROM has overclocked the CPUs excessively. They are set to 1900MHz, which has become obvious to me brings them right up to their temperature safety threshold, 95C. It seems Samsung clocked them at 1300MHz and allowed for occasional spikes above this point, keeping them at a maxium & slightly more reasonable 85C a full 10C cooler than their maximum safe operating temp.
I never expected I'd stumble on not only a source, but also that I've been utilizing the solution for months. I should add that governing the CPU lower has had absolutely no effect on performance. I regularly shut down 1 or 2 CPU cores as it is. I found that the tablet will run perfectly under normal use with only 2 cores. This reduces temperature and increases battery life. Sluthing can be so much fun sometimes, it was right in front of my face I just never put 2 & 2 together lol :good:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
thebadwrench said:
Your welcome. I too noticed that on CM13 at times it seems to run alot cooler than at other times. Although the only time I ever see go as low as 30C is when its been asleep for awhile and then I turn the screen on (CM12 & 13). As soon as it wakes up it'll go to mid-high 40C to mid 50C (on CM12) or it'll go straight to high 50C to low 60C (CM13). CM13 definitely ramped up alot quicker when testing, almost like its either min or max CPU power. I like temaseks CM13 build, but for me there wasnt much improvement over the CM12 build. Plus there is a few minor bugs as well as the slight negative effect on battery life I noticed. Plus I was noticing that there was a bit of a touchy spot in the top right corner of my screen that when swiped from the outside in, it sometimes crashed my tablet. I wasn't sure if it was a fault in my tablets hardware or something software related and I'm still not 100% positive which it may be, but since I began taking notice of when it was happening, its only ever happened on CM13. Thats also part of the reason I think I'm going to hold off on using the CM13 build for awhile. CM12 build is overall just more to my liking I guess... more to my tablets liking as well.
After posting yesterday I looked up some specs on Samsungs website and you are 100% correct about it being 1.9GHz. This is the spec copy/pasted off their website... Exynos® 5 Octa (1.9GHz Quadcore + 1.3 GHz Quadcore). The second part stands out because 1.3GHz is definitely where the stock rom was trying to maintain its CPU frequency when under heavy load. Not once did it exceed 1.6GHz. Whereas both CM builds ramped up to the full 1.9GHz very quickly. So the difference is going to be HOW the processor steps up in frequency as opposed to what the frequency actually is. Thats where my knowledge on that kinda stuff ends. I'm a "let's figure out what failed and why" or "lets figure out how it works" type of person. Thats why I work on cars for a living. I leave the development and detailed technical mumbo jumbo to the devs and engineers. Troubleshooting methods are much the same for just about everything though, hince how I came to my conclusion yesterday. Just for grins I may load up PAC ROMs CM12 build, see how it does. too...
As for how I set my governor, it depends on what I doing at the time. I never fine tune anything, like I said, that's outside my realm of knowledge. What I do set is the governor to either interactive or ondemand. Interactive more for casual use and ondemand more for gaming. I also manually shut down CPU cores depending on my demand from my CPU. Right now, for instance, I'm running stricly on cores 0 & 2 with cores 1 & 3 turned off. My CPU max clocking frequency is set to 1.3GHz but its consistantly hovering at 650MHz, or .65GHz. Thats all I ever mess with and I do so mainly for battery life. It makes a noticeable difference (both charging and discharging) if I adjust those 3 things according to my use. And no, my cores don't ever switch on or off automatically. I do vaguely recall seeing them do that on a different ROM, but I don't remember what ROM that was... it was at least a year ago that I saw that. I'm sure that is something that is kernel related, but I'm just guessing on that one.
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
ollimi1 said:
Hi thebadwrench,
Which app did you use to do all this modifications on cm13 stock kernel? Especially deactivating cores is very interesting. Can you see all eight cores? I'm using 3C toolbox and it shows it only as quad core and on voltage page I have two cpu cluster.(one clocked till 650mhz and the other till 1900mhz)
Under CM13 the cpu behavior is totally different as on stock Samsung roms because the small cores are more or less unused and clocked at max. only at 650mhz, Lol!
I watch also much more kernel warnings in ksmg and high temperatures for a while now on CM13.
Also battery runtimes are only 3,5-5h unlike 7-8h under cm12.1!
Sometimes the cpu is also locked at max. speed(1,9ghz), mostly after looking youtube videos or other heavy load situations. The only way to get back "normal" behavior is to reboot the device.
I see also only two used cpu states all the time it jumps between 250 and 1900mhz, the most steps in between are unused.
We can only hope a real kernel developer can have a look on this or we can cherry pick some usefull tweaks from another device with the same cpu chipset.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
thebadwrench said:
I use kernel adiutor https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.grarak.kerneladiutor It also shows 4 cores but shutting them down is just a single click. In the attached screenshot you can see that I've manually unchecked cores 1 & 2 and on the CPU display (turned on via developer options) you can see that those cores are indeed shut down and not operating. I like the app's widget, allows you to set up as many different profiles as you want and then change between the different profiles on the widget.
View attachment 3732472
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Click to collapse
Yeah, good news!
I am positive surprised that kernel Adiutor is working, seems we have build-in UCI, which is needed, nice! Using KA on my OP2 since a long time but there is no custom kernel for p600 cm13 roms so I have not tried!
Will try it now!:good:
Thanks!!
thebadwrench said:
What exactly did you mod? Any pictures?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I replaced the silicone heat pad on the CPU with a copper shim and thermal compound, added some small silicone pads around other components (all under the heat shields) and added a .5mm silicone heat pad on top of the main heat shield to enhance contact with the back plate. I do have some pictures, but I want to provide a proper write-up and currently don't have much time as I'm moving. Will hopefully find a chance to give a more detailed write-up in May - sorry for the delay, but full report is forthcoming!
As for the CM13 issues, @joshndroid apparently implemented some changes to it in the last build, so I might check that out, although I agree that CM12.1 is probably still the safer bet for a stable daily driver.
franzli said:
Thanks for your detailed comparison, that's very helpful indeed! In light of that, I think my mod has indeed given some improvement, as I don't reach over 90°C on CM13 until after 5-10 min, albeit with some throttling to 1700MHz after about 10min.
I've always had the impression that the current CM13 builds are a bit more CPU hungry and run warmer (possibly that triggered my thinking about a cooling mod in the first place), so it's very interesting to see that backed up experimentally! Interestingly, I've had mixed experiences with CM13, almost like two "modes" of running - sometimes, it runs pretty warm, roughly like you describe, but at other times it runs fairly normally around 30-40°C without problems. Haven't really figured out what the problem is and am having occasional instabilities/reboots as well, so I might actually also return to CM12.1 for the moment too.
While the higher CPU clocks (although 1.9GHz is the specified clock speed, but I get what you mean) may explain the heat and slightly better results in Geekbench I've been having with CM13, it's a bit odd that I still get the good result when the ROM is in the cool "mode" (it goes up to high 60s, mid 70s during Geekbench if memory serves well).
How do you set your governors? And have you been able to get the cores to switch on and off automatically as they do on some other devices? Or is this not implemented in the kernel or something?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Franzli,
The kernel seems odd to me!
The small A7 cluster is virtually unused and clocked only to 650MHz @ 1200ma !! Normal is 1.3GHz @ 1200ma for the small A7 cluster on 5420! Also a lot of warnings and errors in ksmg!
No idea whether the A7 ever used or permanently in idle mode, Lol!
Also all 4 big a15 cores are always online, what means no hotplug driver available!
I don't know if we will ever see a good kernel for CM13 because of the missing sources.
Although the kernel is running and mostly stable it is far from "good"!
Power consumption is almost doubled, problems with overheating and sometimes cpu is locked at max. speed and the only way to solve it is a reboot.
I don't remember the cm12.1 kernel but he was definately better in terms of battery runtimes and reliability.
BTW, I'll also mod the device cooling using bigger copper sheets instead of the perforated aluminum sheets, thermal-pads and thermal-grease when I start changing my battery and usb jack, what is definately neccessary in my case!
Maybe I will buy one of the small heatpipes used in S7 or so when I find them somewhere.
It is not difficult to adjust it if needed, so that it can replace the heatspreader.
Mabye it is needed to isolate the heatpipe from the mainboard but nothing what a piece of kapton tape not can do.
franzli said:
Hi all!
[...] But after seeing this video on the Teclast X98 Pro and some other info on modding in tablets, I was still wondering if there'd be a way to improve the cooling on the Note 10.1 2014 to get lower average temperatures [...]
So I guess my main question is if anyone has undertaken anything of this sort for this or comparable tablets? [...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hallo there
Well I just did the job. I have also made a short manual and would like to share it with you. But first some things about me and my tablet.
I bought a used galaxy note 10.1 2014 edition SM-P600 couple months ago. I was really disappointed about the device performance. Switching from stock android 5.1 to [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] did some improvements in performance. But since I am a very heavy web surfer I was still not satisfied with the performance. I have also tried [P600][Touchwiz] Marshmallow Rom 20170622 and went back to RR because I can play around with the CPU governors and all that deathy audiutor stuff. Between very nice work Exynos Team and all the other developers...
Soon I realized that the SM-P600 becomes fairly hot in the backside. I took a look at the ifixit pictures. There was no other way finding good resolution pictures of the inside.
I ended up installing cool tool app. Well is there any other good app for monitoring temps, clock and load in overly?
Well so I added frequency, load, battery temp and cpu temp. You need to add cpu temp manually. I guess it is Label ->
custom label -> enable- Then you have to go fine tuning -> custom label -> path:/sys/class/thermal/thermal_zone0/temp. leace everything as it is. regex is (\d+)\d{3} and add postfix °C and prefix cpu:
.
So I went along and analysed heat and temps in the galaxy 10.1 2014 edition. Especially frequency-temp-ratio. And I can tell you this buddy is everything else than cool. Temps jump up so fast I can't tell you. Even some fast scrolling on ebay, facebook desktop web page in browser treated the Temperature to the hight 80s and soon the high 90s. I have also seen the things franzli mentioned before. Even light work put so much heat to the processor. Watching the frequency and temperature bounce was a pain. I could feel the pain that little Exynos 5420 must suffer of all the time.Throttling is the only ways this little buddy can survive To make it short I decided to do the cooling mod...
So lets see what I found on my journey ... I can tell you that's a big surprise
I opened the case very easily. You can find tons of videos on youtube or use ifixit.
Well I have to mention I am an electronics hardware engineer. So doing this stuff is nothing unique for me. And I have years of professional PCB manufacturing, repair experience.
Opening the case, adding some tape and this is what you get...
As you can see there is a little thermal pad applied to the aluminium shielding. And boooom there you are . Do you see all thet flux solder remains? How come samsung? Seriously?
This is the shielding close up with that thermal pad.
As you can see the FBGA package is covered with flux from soldering. So it is naturally, that the cooling in the galaxy is a pain. There can't bee any good heat flow.
So let's check that thermal pad.
woops that little buddy is kinda to small. I am sad to see this.
Well I cleaned the surface as good as I can with ethanol. After this I applied a new Thermal pad.
After that it looked like this.
Then I closed the shielding case and cleaned it.
So next comes the actual cooling mod. I added a big thermal pad.
I had to cut that little hook in the back plate. So that the 100mmx100mm copper layer will fit in shape.
And this is it done.
So what about the results :laugh:
The back plate fits perfectly. If you know there is a thin layer of copper you can feel it. But it is so less. I had no problem closing the case. Ahh yeah I had to tage it with double sided tape, so it is pressed down to the thermal. The back plate will do the rest pressure.
And really don't worry about the wifi interference. There is no worry. Because the copper layer is located on top of the bettery pack and shielding case. Why should there be any interference? I have tried. Reaching same wifi performance as always. No worries:good:
So what about heating. Well my galaxy note stays pretty cool.
I need to mention this is all mesured with the [ROM][7.1.2]Resurrection Remix N for SM-P600 (n1awifi) [5.8.5][UNOFFICIAL][NIGHTLY] I mentioned before.
I used interactive governor.
I reach in Antutu v6.2.7 about 57000 to 58000
In futuremark work 2.0 I get 4000
Here some pics
I am sorry for that high resolution pics. But I wanted best of (bad) quality. I used my redmi note 4 for taking pictures. If you can't read all in the pics, just open in new window.
There isn't any more throttling at all. It is hard to push to 85°C or above now. Just with synthetic GPU and CPU load on all four cores at once. And it takes a couple of minutes. But in real world you will never get it. With only load on one core my maximum is 69 to 72°C. The tablet fells pretty nice now. The warming in the back plate is reduced to a very large surface. So sometimes it fells as if your hands warm up the case.
Can you suggest me any ROm with a good overclocking potential? I have already tried this ROM. I really don't know why, but it keeps crashing all the time at 2GHz or 2.1 GHz. Even with no load at all. I guess the used kernel is bad.
Do you have any ROM suggestion for me.
If you have any quastions and things you want me to test write me.
Just wanted to share my experience with you. I didn't expect a dirty PCB, BGA and thermal pad like this. So what do you think about this.