Related
Ok, so there are task killer threads that lead me to believe that they a are a waste of time by and large, and that android automatically sorts things out. Those same posts also point out that task killers are an extra drain on the battery having to start applications over again uses more battery than leaving something dormant in the background. These posts are not the thoughts of one person but unanimous to those threads. All very well, but then there are the battery saving threads that say to close down all applications that aren't being used to save additional battery??? Again this is the view of everyone in those particular threads, so is there any chance of getting the two camps to FIGHT! And then I can decide which I shall choose to do!
For info I currently have task killer and use it all the time and get a full days use out of my battery which is good because I cane the hell out of it! But If I could improve it that would be good. I have however this afternoon decided to not use task killer for a few days and see how I get on. But an explanation would be good from both sides.
I never use a task killer and get 2 or 3 days use out of of my Desire. No point in a war just use your Desire for a week without a task killer and then a week with. I am pretty sure you will just find the task killer slows things down and doesn't improve battery life. You will not find any of the ROM chefs using a task killer either!
HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.
polystirenman said:
HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
dhiral.v said:
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well.i did read that before.that is why i do not understand why my phone was so slow.they are claiming that android should close apps by itself to reclaim memory.but in my case that wasn't true.everything was running and nothing was getting closed by system.
Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.
pascanu said:
Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would like to believe it.i was so excited when i saw a post saying that i should get rid of task-killer.but as i wrote before after half day of heavy use(my phone is new so i play with it a lot :-D ) without task killer my phone was soooooo slow i couldn't use it anymore.today i had task-killer back on the phone and all day no slowdown what so ever.i don't understand that.i am starting to think it is related to A2SD and memory being relocated to SD card.
I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.
If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...
andycted said:
If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the link in my previous post?
ANOTHER thread about this... There must be plenty of threads on this now, but I'll just once more give my impression.
Personally I have had HTC widgets like NEWS or MAIL or CALENDER hang or crash on me and I could not restart them unless I restarted the phone. In this case an app killer was ESSENTIAL. I don't believe you need to leave the app killer running always and kill every single task when your done, but its essential to have one installed so if a widget hangs (as has happened quite a few times on the Desire) you can kill the hung app without having to try a 5 hour shut down(another desire issue) and battery removal.
Also... after 2 days use of many apps and camera use and internet and youtube app etc, your internal RAM will be about 50mb available to programs. yes, android is supposed to kill stuff as it needs, and Im sure it does, but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious. So I do tend to kill tasks like camera and youtube etc if I have not used them in a day and my phone seem slaggy. the phone definetly runs faster then. Thats just a fact. So the internal android task killer is not as efficent as you'd like to think. Android 2.2 runs 450% faster than 2.1 so maybe then no lag will EVER be noticable. I'll still keep a task killer installed though in case widgets crash or hang.
I found my battery most efficient with this setup:
- Installed Advanced Task killer (free)
- Security level: High (it doesn't show system apps)
- I have put all frequently using apps on ignore list: ATK, Messages, BatteryTimeLite, Internet, Weather, Clock, Calendar (so Android manage with those apps)
- Auto kill Level: Safe
- Auto kill Frequency: 2 hours
With that setup battery lasts almost half time longer than without TK or with killing all apps when screen goes off. Also I don't have any force closes / lag.
Never experienced lag at 100 or 20 mb free.
mcgon1979 said:
but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The amount of free memory doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lag.
As Android does not use virtual memory (unless you've hacked in swapper, which is a bad idea anyway), it will attempt to make best use of available memory which may mean keeping recently used items in memory, and thus "consuming" free memory. However, if those items are not actively processing, they should not be consuming CPU cycles and therefore consuming little to no power.
As far as a running system is concerned, having lots of free memory just means that it is being underutilized.
I don't kill tasks and my phone never lags - that's just a fact too!
Regards,
Dave
boge said:
I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using this method it is possible to make the native task killer a bit more aggresive. I did some experiments with this on the HTC Hero and it just might have improved speed slightly but at the expense of stability.
"Normal" task killers are completely pointless but if people want to use them why not? It they want to sacrifice both battery life and performance by using one surely that is their choice. Whatever the experts says will not convince them.
I suppose you could use one to kill the very occasional hung app. i.e. Once every few days, but most people seem to use them constantly and totally indiscriminately.
1. About Cpu: get a task manager with cpu monitoring and verify for yourself, frozen applications in background don't do anything.
2. About memory: If an application needs 10 MB it just uses 10 MB and couldn't care less if there are 11, 100, 1000 MB free. The only moment you COULD see a tiny slowdown is the instant it needs 20 and there are only 10 available, but the system is quite good in managing that, and freeing resources (there are six levels of memory cleaning which progressively remove unused applications from the background)
3. If you stop monitoring memory usage, stop worrying about the system, you'll find out it manages itself perfectly and you enjoy the phone a lot more.
Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."
Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as said in the post above, get a cpu monitoring task manager and see for yourself if you have something wrong. Personally I don't have any.
Also watch battery history which tells you if the phone doesn't manage to go properly to sleep (partial wake)
regarding that article, iphone users get way less battery time and they don't even have multitasking...
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Ipad's dont have "Spell Check" thery have "Replace" built into Safarii adn it wokrs just fineq!!!
I personally installed auto memory manager, an app that configures android's internal task killer. Its not a task manager by itself, uses android's task manager. You can set the limits in MB for all the app categories android has.
I was using it in my hero as well and found it really useful. Before having it installed, after some time my free memory was ~50mb, thus my phone was sometimes lagging. Now its always above 100mb and no lag at all
Ive read plenty of articles/topics/post that said Task killers are pointless on android but I still see people defending that argument saying that they are in fact needed.
I want to know is it necessary for a device like the Evo that has alot more RAM to keep applications open in the background, a track record of bad battery life, and an abundance of applications that appear automatically in the background when we power on our devices (I just rebooted my devices and Advanced Task Killer says I have 20 applications open and I haven't opened anything) to have a task killer. What do you think?
Well first, when you boot it up, those applications automatically open up.
Task killers are a major part in my Android life baha.
IMO, it helps my phones performance in many factors (battery, speed,storage, ect.)
I would recommend one, suggestively Advanced Task Killer
i used task killers for maybe 3-4 months with the Nexus One; once people said that it's not needed, i stopped using it and haven't noticed my battery draining any faster
i agree, there are too many apps boot up automatically when you first power on the phone, but you can use apps like Autostarts to prevent these apps from starting on boot
Yeah, different people have different issues.
but, get something either a task killer or that app he suggested because that does so down the performance on the device.
Android manages memory on quite well on it's own. You using a task manager hinders it's ability to do it's job correctly.
You have to realize that we're the end user, the people that actually create this stuff, know what they're doing.
Linux has been around for a while.
A task killer will do NOTHING more than end apps that may/may not need to running and give you a FALSE sense of preformance.
So ever since i did the OTA 2.2 it keeps running more apps in the background. I have my ATK set up "Crazy" and shut apps down when screen is off. But i cant keep it above 180ish. Is there something im missing??
Yeah, task managers don't work in Froyo! Lol! Little known fact. Basically, the Android team got tired of the abuse of task killers and made them defunct. They'll stop processes, but they just restart. You never needed one, and with Froyo, it has better memory management and other things that completely negate any benefit task killers might have brought. To stop a malfunctioning app, use the built in task manager. Settings>Applications>Manage Applications and go to the running apps tab. Select the app you want to manage and hit Force Stop.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Wish it would just fully stop. Well Im gonna do it (root) when someine has it available for 2.2
I uses taj killers and noticed some slowing now that I have gotten rid of the task killer I have had better battery life and better speeds. Just let Android manage your apps and quit closing apps that don't need to be closed. Closing an app through a task killer will do some damage just like you should not force close an app on a computer unless it locks up on you.
Sent from my EVO using XDA App
you can run a task preventer (I like "autostarts") to keep those apps from even starting in the first place.
Also if you want to have the system kill tasks more aggressively you can scale up the lowmemkiller. You can do this manually by echoing whatever values you want to the lowmemkiller file (more on that if you want to know) or there are apps that will do it for you. I don't know which on the market will do it, I run damagecontrol and DConfig has a lowmemkiller adjustment
I read and watch so many contradicting things about this subject, I just cannot seem to understand the truth..
I know Android works off of a linux type of OS, and that the memory function is superior to many others..
I read that having any app killer is actually bad because it drains your battery even more than if you don't have it, that the apps running in the background aren't really running as the memory or most of it is now running the application you're using.
Now what if the app killer program has a function that lets you disable the auto kill, I assume that is the part that runs and drains the battery?
would it be good then? or is it still bad?
Finally if so, do I even bother to close out the applications after a full days use?
It just seems very confusing when a large group of people tell you NO and a large group of people tell you YES.
and its reputable places too, not just amatures
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVWZFNHq0uQ
I would just like to add to your confusion by saying that I read that the new Android 2.2 API disables the ability to "kill" apps. It can kill background services or something to that effect, so the program is still in memory, but not actively performing operations or something. That's all paraphrased from a 3 month old memory, so take it with a grain of salt, but if that is true, is there any point to a Task Killer if you have Froyo?
Actually, thinking about a reply gave me a good idea. More on that some other time
Long story short: it all depends.
Short story long:
Anyways, task killers are not inheritly bad, but they are "dangerous". How dangerous depends entirely on how you use them. In general I would say, if you have a device with sufficient memory available, I would only use a task manager to manually kill games (only) that you played but are no longer playing, or some apps if you understand what they do and how they work. Generally we refer to task killers that do not have an automatic component as task managers instead of killers.
One danger is how the app is killed. If it is not killed "gracefully" corruption may occur. This is very rare to occur, though. Apps will almost always be killed gracefully.
Another danger is killing apps that are tied to background services. In most task killers (if not all) there is no way to see if they have such a background service. What most task killer display is actually only visible components of applications. However, killing them will also kill the background services. This may prompt Android to just restart it, but this time invisibly, and you just wasted quite some CPU (not to mention time) to save a little bit of memory you won't miss. Some services are hefty on the initialization but light on running on purpose, and this will make the effect bigger. Another option is that the service simply no longer runs -as it is NOT restarted- and some part of your phone may not behave as you expect it to. Common sense helps here. For example, you could kill the browser like this, but killing a system service app like (I assume) SetCPU, JuiceDefender, etc will generally be a bad idea. Automated task killers do not usually distinguish between these.
Now, Android's internal killer does distinguish between these things (and many more important factors). Say you are in this situation:
- A is running in the foreground
- B is in the background and has a service
- C is in the background
- D is in the background
If we run low on memory, Android will kill C and D before killing B, and it will kill B before killing A. Which is pretty much exactly how we want it done. Android will know when it is necessary to do this. An automated task killer may for example kill B. But B might automatically restart it's invisible parts. Then the automated task killer is in the same situation again, and will shortly after that kill C or D. This operation just wasted a whole bunch of CPU cycles!
Keep in mind, that if an application is not specifically built to do something while it is not in the foreground (i.e. directly visible on your screen), it will not actually be executing any code at all. It will just take up some memory. This is a good thing, because if you go to this app again it will still be exactly as you left it, without the app having to go through all the loading and initialization steps again. How much effect that has depends on the app, obviously. You should see this more as a cache, or ramdisk, or something similar. Well-built apps do generally not have a negative effect on CPU or battery use when they are not in the foreground. They would only use background resources if truely needed.
There is no noticable negative side effect on battery to this. If Android needs the memory and it doesn't have any to spare (for example for your foreground application), it will simply kill off one or more of the background applications.
Also keep in mind that if you "close" an app by using the back button, on many devices and ROMs this will actually close the application instead of keeping it in the background. There is no foreward button, after all.
Now, to the battery issue. I have seen, heard, and read endless complaints by many users regarding poor battery life, RAM being full (there is hardly any reason to care, on a proper firmware), etc. and that these task killers help them. The fact is, that 95 times out of 100 these users are running "a bunch of crap". Because make no mistake, there are a lot of crap apps, widgets, even complete custom ROMs out there. Using system resources when they don't need to, using background services when they don't need to, constantly polling data instead of being event based, etc. Just badly done stuff.
Finding the culprit is often difficult, though in my personal experience (your mileage may vary) the culprit is most often a app+widget combo rather than a bar app. That is, unless you install a serious hack (again, like CPU speed managers, battery savers, etc) and configure them exactly how they shouldn't be configured for your usage situation, with all the resulting adverse effects. When someone I know personally has these issues, the first thing I have them do is uninstall all apps that provide widgets. You would be surprised how often that has solved the issue altogether.
Automated task killers are a band-aid solution in these cases. Of course, there also exist cases of improperly configured Android memory management in the firmware, and if you have a device with very little RAM this can also be problematic, but these are much less common than the user installing crappy stuff (though sometimes it is the carrier with bad bloatware). Usually, automated task killers just fight symptoms, not the cause.
My advice would definitely be, check what you're running and what you install. If you're a bit techsavvy, use a task manager, but only kill tasks manually. Never "kill all" unless absolutely necessary, and don't run it automated unless you are absolutely sure the developer is worth his salt. Even then, don't make a habit out of killing apps manually. Do make a habit out of exiting apps (especially games) with the back button, instead of for example using the home button to switch to the app launcher.
A case can be made for manually killing apps as it gives you more control over what is killed when, but the time you would spend doing it is worth more than what you would save (generally). Also keep in mind that the automated task killer itself will also be running a background process to check on your situation and kill apps, and thus may actually be part of the problem instead of the solution.
@nukedukem: I'm running Froyo and the task manager I'm using kills apps just fine when I tell it to do so...
I say they are bad unless you have rogue apps. And even then they are not needed. Hit Menu-Settings-Applications-Manage Apps-Running Tab-Click App-Kill. But instead of that, you can make a widget on your homescreen that goes straight to it. Long press homescreen-shortcuts-settings-manage applications. Done. I use that when I want to kill a game or something eating CPU. Otherwise I just let Android do its thing. Also, I like Watchdog Lite. It monitors apps using the CPU and alerts you when one exceeds the threshold and gives you option to kill or ignore(app may have a legitimate reason for hogging CPU) the app in question. This is good because app or processes are really only hurting or effecting the battery when they are using the CPU, not RAM. However, another option for task management is Autokiller in the Market. It allows you to change Android's minfree settings, or internal task manager, to kill off apps sooner. I set mine to be aggressive. I actually never worry about task management. Unless Watchdog beeps at me. I think the last time I killed an app was 3 weeks ago. I remember the day Autokiller came out well. I had the HTC Hero back then. To do what that app does I had to change them manually each boot and eventually a script was made to change the settings. Those early days of Android were so much fun. ;D
If anymore questions let us know.
They are just like everything, use in moderation. I use mine all the time but I don't mess with system services and only use it to kill stuff I've been using.
And yes they still work in 2.2 as long as the app is not active
I just installes arhd 2.1 rom and evrrything works fine.
I got most things installed.i need like twitter, fb, adv. task killer,
even auto startup killer, titanium, juice, setcpu and some more.
I disabled all notifications.
I prevent all startup apps i didnt want (all but 2,or 3)
I set sync to off. I checked all app settings twice.
Still there.are mostly like all apps running after i start my phone
And if i kill them it takes a while but they come back...
How to fix that ? Beside all my programms things like internet, mail, messages are also on.
My ram is down to like 210mb, when i kill its back to 480.
Thanks guys!
Android is nothing like windows.
Killing apps & processes to save memory is bad for your phone. Android handles its memory very well, and you killing apps interferes with that.
Apps are loaded into the RAM, for your convenience, if Android runs low on memory, it will decide what apps to kill.
I'm sure there is a guide that explains this.
andyharney said:
Android is nothing like windows.
Killing apps & processes to save memory is bad for your phone. Android handles its memory very well, and you killing apps interferes with that.
Apps are loaded into the RAM, for your convenience, if Android runs low on memory, it will decide what apps to kill.
I'm sure there is a guide that explains this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So (Auto)-Taskkillers are Bull**** ?
Also Startup Prevention ? Everything like that ?
Or anything "good" ? I guess SetCpu is something useful which comes
into that area.
If someone has a guide, give me a "call"
Task killers should only be used to kill rogue apps, apps that are poorly coded. They shouldn't be used to manage your memory.
SetCPU is kinda different, all it does is allow you to alter the speed of your CPU.
mydanny said:
So (Auto)-Taskkillers are Bull**** ?
Also Startup Prevention ? Everything like that ?
Or anything "good" ? I guess SetCpu is something useful which comes
into that area.
If someone has a guide, give me a "call"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I find it very difficult to understand people who are using taskillers in their phone. The whole point, i guess, is to save some battery? But do you know that taskillers run constantly and consume even more battery? And you might end up messing up with your system and experiencing lags/problems.
The memory management of android system is different than what we are used to. You should let android manage the memory. If you still want to quit some of the apps which you think are using up your memory, you can do it manually via "manage applications" in applications.
I m also using ARHD. And i don't use any taskillers/ startup managers. I never experienced lags when playing gameloft games (i tell you they require lots of memory) or angry birds. I have my wifi-on, sync on all the time.
SetCpu is used to manage the cpu speed of your DHD. This can be used to create profiles (or comes already with some profiles like ondemand etc.) and the program itself understands the need for memory and adjusts your cpu speed according to that. It might give you some more bat. life.
Of course what kind of programs we want to use in our DHD is upto us. And people will have a divided opinion on whether to use taskillers or not. But if you ask me (and my almost 3 years of android experience), you are better off without any taskillers.
sphuyal said:
I find it very difficult to understand people who are using taskillers in their phone. The whole point, i guess, is to save some battery? But do you know that taskillers run constantly and consume even more battery? And you might end up messing up with your system and experiencing lags/problems.
The memory management of android system is different than what we are used to. You should let android manage the memory. If you still want to quit some of the apps which you think are using up your memory, you can do it manually via "manage applications" in applications.
I m also using ARHD. And i don't use any taskillers/ startup managers. I never experienced lags when playing gameloft games (i tell you they require lots of memory) or angry birds. I have my wifi-on, sync on all the time.
SetCpu is used to manage the cpu speed of your DHD. This can be used to create profiles (or comes already with some profiles like ondemand etc.) and the program itself understands the need for memory and adjusts your cpu speed according to that. It might give you some more bat. life.
Of course what kind of programs we want to use in our DHD is upto us. And people will have a divided opinion on whether to use taskillers or not. But if you ask me (and my almost 3 years of android experience), you are better off without any taskillers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Word. Sounds convincing.
I will remove the **** from my phone - Task Killer and Startup Manager.
You also dislike Juice Defender ? I heard only positive things about battery.
Or is this 100% crap, too ?
mydanny said:
Word. Sounds convincing.
I will remove the **** from my phone - Task Killer and Startup Manager.
You also dislike Juice Defender ? I heard only positive things about battery.
Or is this 100% crap, too ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never used Juice Defender but it is a OK app (it uses some bat. though). All i use i "currentwidget" to monitor what causes battery drain (if any). If i were you, i would see how the DHD goes along with/without juice defender for 48 hours. And then evaluate if i really need juice defender.
Killing apps is liking turning your car engine off on every street you go down. It's better to keep the engine running, it uses less petrol.
Same with memory management on Android, if you keep killing, it has to startup the app again each time you use it which actually uses more battery.
The only thing I use is setCPU on a smartass governor with a profile for when the screen goes off to reduce CPU usage to 450mhz. Mine idle's at 1-3ma.
What a bunch of rubbish. Task killers are an excellent easy to keep your phone running fast and smooth. They also save your battery by not letting tasks run in the background and eat battery unnecessarily.
I hope that wasn't too obvious a troll ...
Task killers suck. They are the Android equivalent of Windows registry cleaners. Sold to you to speed up your system but really they break it.
Sent from my super slick Android device.
dr.m0x said:
What a bunch of rubbish. Task killers are an excellent easy to keep your phone running fast and smooth. They also save your battery by not letting tasks run in the background and eat battery unnecessarily.
I hope that wasn't too obvious a troll ...
Task killers suck. They are the Android equivalent of Windows registry cleaners. Sold to you to speed up your system but really they break it.
Sent from my super slick Android device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You had me for a minute there