Hi!
I'm using DeFrost 1.8 and I think that my confusion will be same on any other FroYo ROM.
I know that DeFrost has Apps2SD buildin and cause it's a FroYo ROM, already have the FroYo-style Apps2SD.
I must confess that i don't care where my apps are installed. I just supose that are stored on SD card using old-Apps2SD method.
Now, I've installed App2SD from Market and show some apps that are on internal memory and some on SD card, but there are lot more apps that I have installed on my phone that don't show up on this app.
Now, I'm very confused with this.
When I install a new app from Market, in what location is installed ? Internal, SD card using App2SD-old or App2SD-FroYo ?
How can I select the default location for new installations ?
I have SpareParts from LeoFroyo and App2sd location is on 'Default'. This means internal memory or old-style App2SD or what ?
If my ROM has buildin old-style App2SD, I can suppose that 'default' means this method. Or not ?
Is your SD card setup for old-A2SD with an EXT3 partition? If not, then they'll either go on the internal memory or the SD card using FroYo-A2SD (although not all apps are installed to the SD card as the creator may not have updated them yet)
Another question:
I actually haven't any Ext3 partition and may applications already installed, some on internal memory and some with the froyo-a2sd on the sd card.
I would like to create an Ext3 partition. I was thinking about the following steps:
- backup the fat32 content of the sd
- create a 1Gb ext3 partition
- restore the content of the Fat32 partition to SD
The problem is:
I will probably lose all the applications installed on the internal memory
Is it right? How can I solve this? Do I have to move everything to the new partition?
Which directories do I have to copy on Ext3?
Is sufficient to backup everything with Titanium and the restore once the Ext3 has been created?
Another problem is:
I started the system with an Ext3 partition and I couldn't access any application I installed before. Is there a way to recover those applications?
Once I erased the Ext3 partition (without installing anything on it) the phone started a boot loop.
What if I create the Ext3 before installing the new rom?
Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Daemon
EddyOS said:
Is your SD card setup for old-A2SD with an EXT3 partition? If not, then they'll either go on the internal memory or the SD card using FroYo-A2SD (although not all apps are installed to the SD card as the creator may not have updated them yet)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, my SD card have an ext3 partition. So, the apps that don't appear at the App2SD applicaction, it's supposed that are on the ext3 partition ?
Then, why I have some apps in internal memory and other on FroYo-app2sd and the rest on ext3 part ?
I can't understand this.
Hey guys
Im on holiday now so cannot really check myself the differences, but just wanted some quick info on the A2SD, with the official froyo i was hoping everybody will start using it, but somehow people still using the old method, whys that?
thanks
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Old A2SD you can dump everything on the SD
However, I'd be interested in seeing if there is a way to force an app onto the nand using A2SD+. Would work better for things like widgets, home replacements etc, as they'd run quicker for people with slow sd cards.
Probably because the FroYo one sucks !
Why ? Well, mostly because devs have to rewrite their apps so they can use FroYo's app2sd function...
With the "old-fashioned" a2sd, there is no need to do anything, just sit and enjoy the free space
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
wow! thats quick thanks for you input guys think you explained everything i wanted to know really
Id want to use the offical a2sd as i think using ext3 partitioned sd card have already slightly damaged the card cuz it keeps giving me errors everytime i connect it to a pc
mrwookie6379 said:
APP2SD allows you to move certain apps to your SD card and run them from there BUT as these are placed on the normal root of the SD when you mount the SD, via USB for example, you loose access to these apps until you remount SD. This means you cant install widgets to the SD and such like.
APP2SD+ on the other hand uses an ext3 partition (or ext4 on newer versions) which then installs all apps & widgets to that partition and when the SD is mounted you dont lose any apps or widgets as is located in a seperate partition.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Check this explaination. Quoted from neoKushan from yesterdays thread.
neoKushan said:
Ok, so here's the deal, in a very longwinded way that should hopefully explain everything and answer ALL questions.
You have an SD card in your phone and, a bit like normal PC Hard Drives, you can "partition" them (split them into two or more sections of different filesystems). Normally, your SD card is just one big FAT32 partition, which is fine for storing your pics, messages, emails, etc.
Now, other then your Phone's SD card, your phone will have its own internal flash memory (or "NAND") storage. Tradditionally with Android, you could only install applications to this NAND storage, you cannot install them onto your SD card. So if you have an empty 32GB SD card, but only 5Mb of internal phone storage, you still wont be able to install many apps, if any at all.
This was done to protect the apps from things like piracy - it's not easy to access the location where apps are installed on your phone's internal storage (normally impossible without root), so you can't for example buy an app, copy it, refund it, then install it again.
Still, this is no good for those of us who like to install lots and lots of apps, legitimately, as we run out of internal storage very quickly.
So Google came up with a way to install apps to the SD card. A folder is created called something like .android_secure and this stores (I believe) encrypted versions of applications, but there's a few catches:
1) Apps aren't automatically stored here, you have to manually "move" them
2) Not all apps are capable of being moved, in fact most apps aren't, the developer needs to update their app and allow it. Some apps aren't and wont be updated and some developers may not want to allow it for whatever reason.
3) Not all app data is moved, most of it is but some data is left on your phone so many people still run out of internal storage quickly.
4) You can force ALL apps to be moved to this area by default, but it breaks incompatible ones - such as Widgets, which are unable to load due to the SD card not being "prepared".
So that's Froyo's version. Before Froyo existed, some very clever people came up with a thing called "Apps2SD". Remember I said that your SD card normally is one big FAT32 partition? Well, Apps2SD works by having your SD card patitioned into TWO filesystems. A normal FAT32 partition for your usual stuff and a secondary "EXT" partition. EXT is just a filesystem, like FAT32 or NTFS, but it's the filesystem used by Android internally. The SD card is normally FAT32 because it's a "universal" filesystem, that just about any machine will be able to read, whereas EXT filesystems are generally Linux only, but I digress.
EXT has several different versions. The most common one you'll see is ext3. The main difference between ext2 and ext3 is "journaling", which is just a fancy way of saying that should an operation (such as copying, writing or reading) be interrupted unexpectedly (say, by you turning your phone off), then no data should be lost or corrupted. You know how when you turn your phone on, it says "preparing SD card"? It takes a few minutes, but what it's actually doing is checking that the FAT32 partition hasn't been damaged, because FAT does NOT have journaling. If you used a computer back in the Windows 98 days, you may remember that lovely blue "Scandisk" screen that had to run every time you didn't shut your computer down correctly - that's the same thing. But then Windows 2000/XP came along with NTFS, which also has journaling, meaning you had less chance of loosing data. But I digress once more.
So you have your SD card partitioned into EXT and FAT32. Generally it doesn't matter if it's ext3 or ext4, but you don't get any real advantage with ext4 over ext3 in this instance. Apps2SD then runs a special script on your phone which "symbolically links" the folder from your phone's internal storage where your apps are normally stored, to the ext partition on your SD card. A symbolic link is a bit like a shortcut for folders, except it's transparent to the OS: In other words, Android doesn't know that when it's installing it's apps to the internal phone storage, it's actually being stored on the SD card. This effectively boosts your internal phone memory from the previous 5mb that you had in my example above, up to whatever size you made the ext partition on your SD card (often 512Mb or 1Gb, but it depends on how many apps you install).
Plus, because it's "journaled", it doesn't need to be "prepared", meaning it's ready to go as soon as the phone starts - so your widgets and apps work immediately (unlike "forced" Froyo Apps2SD, where widgets disappear).
The catch with Apps2SD is that whatever space the ext partition takes up is taken away from the SD card. So if you have a 4Gb card (with something like 3.5Gb of actual storage) and you make a 512Mb ext partition, your SD card will "shrink" to 3Gb. The space isn't actually lost, it's just being used by the ext partition. If you reformat your card, you'll get it back.
Finally, there's a difference between "Apps2SD" and "Apps2SD+". Remember I said that your apps are stored on a special folder inside your Phone's NAND storage? Well, that was a bit of a lie. It's actually stored in TWO places. There's a second area which is called the Davlik Cache. You don't really need to worry about what this is for (Hint: IT's to do with the Java runetime your phone uses to run apps), all you need to know is that apps use it to store data, which also eats up internal phone memory. Apps2SD+ moves davlik cache to the ext partition on your SD card as well, freeing up even more space. Some people believe that this may come at the cost of performance, as the internal NAND memory should be faster than your SD card (Which is why you also get people arguing over which "class" SD card is better for Apps2SD - the logic being that a faster SD card means less impact from this move), but the truth of the matter is that your applications will be running from your Phone's RAM anyway, so performance isn't really impacted at all. Since most apps are only a few hundred Kb's in size, or a couple of MB at the most, it's a non-issue.
Finally, any recent version of Apps2SD/Apps2SD+ should work with an SD card that is or isn't formatted with an ext partition. It'll check for this partition when your phone first boots and if it's not there, just use internal phone storage.
Having an ext partition WITHOUT Apps2SD+ shouldn't cause any issues, either, so you can format your SD card whenever you're ready.
So in summary:
Apps2SD "fakes" your phone's internal memory and puts it all on a hidden section of your SD card.
Apps2SD+ pushes even more content to the SD card, freeing up even more space on the phone itself.
"Froyo" Apps2SD has various limitations that "old" apps2SD does not, but is much easier to handle as it doesn't involve any kind of "partitioning".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do that thru recovery-windows.bat by going thru recovery mode by volume down + power, go to recovery then when the red exclamation point appears just run the recovery-windows.bat by double clicking on it. You can get these files from r5-desire-root-alt from the rooting process files (search the forums for this if you don't have it). But be cautious cause when you partition your sd card, all your files will be wiped so make sure to backup everything you need. Cheers!
Edit:
Actually this summary about the ap2sd and ap2sd+ and froyo ap2sd should be stickyed for everyone, so it would not be ask over and over again.
Couple of extra ways to partition:
1) Flash AmonRA's Recovery to your phone (I used Unrevoked to do it)
2) Use GParted on a Linux LiveCD (e.g Slax) to partition your card exactly how you want it
Vice83 said:
That's a great summary, thanks for that!
But... how can I create an ext3 partition on a new SD card? I don't want to use ROM Manager because that has a maximum of 512Mb for ext3, I want to make 1gb or more.
Also, what size should I make swap partition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
deepdevil said:
ROM Manager is probably the easiest way to do it, but I was stuck with EXACTLY the same problem when I rooted. I chose to flash AMON Ra recovery (don't have the link, but you can google it up), and then used that to create a 1024MB ext partition. Then used AMON Ra again to convert the ext partition to ext3. Hope that helps.
However, one question I have regarding neoKushan's explanation is that if I did create a 1024MB ext3 partition, then the same capacity should be visible in the phone's internal memory. However, after I rooted and restored my apps, I could only see about 100+ MB of free internal memory. Can anyone help me with this please? Am using the Opendesire Official Froyo 1.0c ROM that has A2SD built in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure about what exact capacity for the internal memory after partitioning to ext3 but when I was on Opendesire before for the eclair 2.1 after I'm done flashing the rom and setting up the whole ap2sd+ my internal memory was 410mb. I used:
swap=0
ext=1024
fat32 is for the rest of the card
Then after upgrading to froyo rooted ROM, I'm only getting 140mb tops. I dunno... I'm too lazy now to get into it right now... maybe soon I'll play around with it again so I can get back my 410mb internal space with the ap2sd+
Stewge said:
Froyo A2SD is completely reliant on app developers. If the devs doesn't allow it in their app then it can't be moved to the SD card. This is really only a problem because Froyo is still new.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not 100% true, because you can change the default install location to SD card (via ADB if stock, and an app if rooted) and then you can have the vast majority of your apps on SD card even if they've not been updated for Froyo.
Regards,
Dave
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Vice83 said:
So let me understand the names:
APPS2SD = Froyo Original (comes with official Froyo release)
APPS2SD+ = Hacked version which has been out since FRF50 leak?
EDIT: But if APPS2SD+ is so much better (keeps apps on ext3 partition), why to people keep using the original APPS2SD on their ROMs?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not exactly!
Prior to Froyo, there were principally two versions of Apps2SD:
1. APPS2SD (or A2SD )
2. APPS2SD+ (or A2SD+)
The first would move your apps to the EXT partition, and the second would move your apps and the Dalvik cache to the EXT partition (see here for an explanation of the Dalvik cache).
Now we have Froyo, we have "native", or "Froyo" apps2sd as well, which does much the same as (1) above except that there is no EXT partition and the apps are on the FAT32 partition of your SD card.
Regards,
Dave
sparksalot said:
I always thought the main negative with A2SD+ was that the cache was moved to the sdcard, which of course would wear out the sdcard (slightly) quicker.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dalvik cache is only actually updated when a new app is installed or and old app is updated, so whilst it will incur more writes to SD card, it probably isn't anywhere near as much as the apps write themselves to the FAT32 partition.
Regards,
Dave
Great summary, but can I format my 8 GB SD card as EXT3 and just forget about the FAT partition? I'm using Ubuntu on my laptop and my EXT4 /home partition is just fine for storing images, movies etc. I really don't get this ado about having an EXT and a FAT partition. Or am I wrong here?
quick question, if i move to another bigger sd card, can i copy my card and transfer it to the new one without losing the EXT, and the apps on it? would i need to make a image of the card? thanx for any advice.
make a backup of them first on your pc and copy them to the newly partitioned sdcard....ext to ext and fat to fat
So there is 3 versions?
1. Froyo A2sd = fat32 only = apps installed to sd
2. A2sd = fat32 + ext = apps installed to sd in ext partition
3. A2sd+ = fat32 + ext = apps installed and Dalvik cache moved to sd in ext partition
Is there any more variants? lol
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
Is there a file explorer that can see the A2SD partition on my SD card?
I've got Astro and Root Explorer - but I can't seem to find it.
Maybe I'm not doing it right or don't really know what I'm looking for?!
Root explorer can, look in /system/sd
I dont think you can mount it when the applications are running from it.
[edit] My bad, /system/sd it is :]
Even if i move apps to the SD(using Manage Applications > Move to SD), there are still some kilobytes that go into internal storage.
so right now i'm at 15megabytes left on my htc desire's internal storage. even though all the apps that i can put on SD is stored on SD.
So is there a way to fully move an app to the SD without storing anything to the internal storage space?
Another question is, is there a way to put apps onto the SD that normally won't function if it's not on internal storage and still have it functioning.(i put swype on SD, to save space. but everytime i reboot my phone, i will have to re-enable swype. then set my default keyboard to swype. i do this to save some megabytes off my internal storage, even though its a hassle to do this everytime i reboot)
edwinlee90 said:
Even if i move apps to the SD(using Manage Applications > Move to SD), there are still some kilobytes that go into internal storage.
so right now i'm at 15megabytes left on my htc desire's internal storage. even though all the apps that i can put on SD is stored on SD.
So is there a way to fully move an app to the SD without storing anything to the internal storage space?
Another question is, is there a way to put apps onto the SD that normally won't function if it's not on internal storage and still have it functioning.(i put swype on SD, to save space. but everytime i reboot my phone, i will have to re-enable swype. then set my default keyboard to swype. i do this to save some megabytes off my internal storage, even though its a hassle to do this everytime i reboot)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are talking about the froyo apps to sd, this topic is about A2SD+.
A2SD+ or DATA2sd is what you need, i would recommend to install a custom rom with A2SD+ (most custom roms just name it A2SD). Just find a rom that requires a ext partition.
TheGhost1233 said:
Root explorer can, look in /system/sd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cool... thats what I was looking for. Thanks
TheGhost1233 said:
You are talking about the froyo apps to sd, this topic is about A2SD+.
A2SD+ or DATA2sd is what you need, i would recommend to install a custom rom with A2SD+ (most custom roms just name it A2SD). Just find a rom that requires a ext partition.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i'm running cm6, is there any way to get A2SD working without having to flash a new rom? or should i wait for cm 6.1, becuase it supports a2sd?
Flash this DT a2sd+, the link is also in the nightly thread. I used it on 6.02 and on the current RC2 with no problems. Note: it doesnt move dalvik cache to SD automatically, if you want that, do it manually after flashing.
I've been trying to learn up on apps to sd from reading several forums, and can't seem to find the right answers.
I've been rooting and ROMing for months now, but never had a need to push phones to SD. Now i think it's time, but have a few questions.
There's a Move to SD Card option under manager applications from the CM menu. How does that differ from the option to push apps to SD in titanium?
What's the story with ext3, ext4, and sd-ext partitions?
Do i need one of those, and if so which one?
I've noticed that when trying to put apps on sd using hte application settings, that i sometimes can't find the widget associated to an app. Is that normal?
Thnks for your help.
mangle
It's probably the same function. I haven't used Ti much though. I'm still a newbie with that app. The app itself has to support being put on the SD card in the manifest file for the app in order for you to be able to move it.
thanks for the reply. I guess i'm trying to figure out what the benefit of having an SDcard partition is when it comes to off loading apps to the SD card. There have been plenty of views on the thread. I'm sure someone out there has the knowledge.
The benefit is that it puts the bulk of the app on the the SD card to save space on your internal storage since those are usually smaller size than the SD card. It'll still save some data and prefs on internal storage but the apk for the app will be on the card. This is very useful for apps that are large like games which can sometimes be over 20MB.
You can read some of the developer docs here for more info on app2sd.
http://developer.android.com/guide/appendix/install-location.html
Best way I have found to move apps to sd is to partition your sdcard with ext3 (ext4 if your kernel supports it) and then use the link2sd app from the market to move your apps, their lib files, and their dalvik-cache files to the sd-ext. Saves a ton of space on the /data and /data/data partitions.
Also if your running gingerbread you should check out jermaine151's ext4_no_data_limit mods. They take the tiny /data/data partition (usualy the cause of low space errors) and move it to the larger /data partition, eliminating the low space issue. It also converts the ext3 /data and /cache partitions to the faster ext4 file system, speeding up apps.