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what is microsoft trying to do? trying to create a lost hype for windows phone 7? well, you can say that... microsoft is saying that it will gift its each 90000+ employees a windows phone 7 device. everything is detailed over here
funny things are happening, like the myphone changed to windows phone live..
How is it lost hype when it's not even officially launched, and there was no hype apart from in tech blogs and such?
They are also encouraging their 90,000+ employees to build Windows Phone 7 apps in their spare time, so I think it can only do good for the Marketplace!
Don't see nothing wrong with it. Its good business practice, and also says MS believes in their product.
Sent from my Hero CDMA using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Sounds like a good idea to me to ensure that there are "xx thousand devices out there on launch day". Well, lets face it, there won't be queues around street corners for one of these like the iPhone will there!
Monty Burns said:
Sounds like a good idea to me to ensure that there are "xx thousand devices out there on launch day". Well, lets face it, there won't be queues around street corners for one of these like the iPhone will there!
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Click to collapse
Will be for me at least
With the advent of 'Marketplace'... WP7 looks pretty much non-hackable at this moment..
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
I think this will eventually close websites like Handago and other 3rd party Windows Mobile software retailing websites.. and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year, when any new windows mobile 6.5 softwares or their upgrades stopped coming out..
I think most of these 3rd party companies are already making a shift to other platforms. Just look at Handango which is now owned by Pocket Gear sells software for the Android and Blackberry platforms.
People like me living in countries not supported by the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace will be forced to shift to other platforms like Android because we can still get software from these 3rd party sellers.
For us there is no point in making the shift from windows 6.5 to Windows Phone 7 because there is no way we will be able to buy software as Market place does not support our country.
Regards
If they close it's because they failed to adapt to new market conditions. It happens in business all the time, adapt and survive. You can't build a successful business on the assumption that everything will stay the same.
Handago is a good example. It won't die off with WinMo 6.5 because it's adapted and found itself a new market to trade from. The businesses that go under are just ones that failed to plan ahead or adapt.
These third party app markets are nothing but shams though... i would be highly surprised if any developer wants them to survive. They're notorious for screwing over people on both ends of the stick.
Purple11 said:
and many Windows mobile warez websites.. ppcware*org is already dead since last one year
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Click to collapse
Err this is a good thing? A V. Good thing?
Purple11 said:
I mean I have seen people jailbreaking, but what to do after jailbreaking? There is no practical use for it, other that unlocking and using other cellular company chip.. it ends their.
As far as softwares are concerned, one has to get it from Marketplace and nowere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're confusing jailbreaking with carrier or service provider unlocking.
Jailbreaking allows installation of non-Marketplace approved programs (such as Chevron Ringtone Installer). A common term for installing programs through a process other than the approved one "sideloading".
Service provider unlocking allows the use of foreign SIMs in GSM phones (for example, using a Rogers Canada SIM in an AT&T handset).
On iPhone the two are often linked in that most jailbroken phones are also carrier unlocked; in fact, the carrier unlock usually requires a jailbreak, because the carrier lock component is embedded into the iOS. Thus, you can have jailbroken but not unlocked phones, and in some countries you can buy from Apple, unlocked, but not jailbroken phones.
On WP7 devices, carrier unlocking uses a mechanism similar to every other phone on the market. Basically, you insert a foreign SIM into a carrier locked phone, and the phone prompts you for a PIN. Enter the correct PIN and the phone is unlocked. Just like a Motorola RAZR. You or your unlocking guy sends a company that has an unlocking table your phone model, carrier and IMEI and they send back a PIN. I suspect that depending on the phone, they use a published table, algorithmically derive it, or brute force it on an emulator.
In WP7, there is a factory mechanism for jailbreaking phones and allowing sideloading of software. The program is a free download with the WP7 dev tools and called "Windows Phone Developer Registration". However, to use it, you need to pay Microsoft an annual $99 dev fee (AFAIK you can jailbreak any number of phones).
Once your WP7 is jailbroken, you can sideload apps, again, using a factory mechanism, from the WP7 Developer Tools, called, "Application Deployment". It allows installation of application packages (.XAP files), which is what gets sent to the Marketplace.
In response to the your question of why anyone would want to jailbreak or unlock a phone:
1. SP unlock phone to use foreign SIMs (this is hugely popular).
2. Jailbreak phone to install non-Marketplace approved apps. For example, the custom ringtone installer.
I suppose another reason will eventually be piracy -- I hope piracy doesn't become prevalent like with Installous on iPhone, but I suppose that's inevitable.
There are LOTS of reasons to install "homebrew" or non-Marketplace approved apps. MS has certain guidelines because they want their phone to work a certain way. However, you could conveivably sideload applications that did other wonderful things that would not be approved -- perhaps changing the behaviour of the lock screen, backgrounded tasks, or altering ringtones. Of course, a bad XAP that used code outside of what is documented and approved might also brick your phone or make it unstable.
Finally, sideloading allows companies to write custom software that they don't want to publish to the world at large. This is actually a very large market -- if you're a local courier company, for example, you could write a corporate app for WP7 that used GPS and geotagging that tracked where your drivers were and when packages were set up, and upload all of that to a server on a relatively very cheap device (vertical market devices cost thousands of dollars).
Remember, jailbreaking and carrier unlocking are totally legal (but, of course, piracy is not!).
The Chevron Ringtone Unlocker is not a jailbreak.
Jailbreaking on iOS is akin to Rooting on WebOS/Android.
There is no Jailbreak for WP7 at the moment.
The Chevron tool only allowed you to deploy code from Visual Studio, and the ringtone unlocker is not a jailbreak, lol.
Nothing like that exists for WP7, at the moment.
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January. Microsoft is doing a good job keeping people out, at the moment. I applaud them.
N8ter said:
The first WP7 update will allow businesses to seed applications to handsets without going through the market, so that will not be a problem for them. It's coming in January.
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Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
jeffgeno said:
I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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The first update will be instantly transmitted OTA to all handsets at 12:01am 1 January 2011, and will activate WP7's quantum entanglement device. Third party apps available at launch will allow instant teleportation, personal force fields, and phase-shifted camo. True multitasking comes in form of the ability to spawn identical clones of yourself, and of course, the WP7 phone that will be all linked using a new version of Live Mesh that's based on a subspace tachion field.
But they better not forget cut and paste.
jeffgeno said:
Where did you get this info? I watched a demo of the phone for business partners and they said there'd be an update in the middle of next year to include more policies and integration with Lync Server. I'd guess that's when software push for businesses is happening, too.
And even the January date of the first update is speculation. All Microsoft has said on the record is "early 2011." I think a lot of people here are getting their hopes up for something that's not going to deliver as much and as quickly as they want.
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Click to collapse
The demo you watched has nothing to do with what I said, nor does that other statement...
I'm not getting my hopes up for anything. If you don't want to believe it, you're free to wait until the update and find out if it's true :>
jailbreaking your phone DOES allow you to load on apps from outside sources... thats the whole idea behind the jailbreak primarily. To use your phone on another network what you are talking about is unlocking it. Let's not confuse the two.
I agree though... other marketplaces tend to screw people over. The marketplace is meant to keep the rift raft out. Now does that mean that we shouldnt be allowed to load on apps from other sources? No, but if you want to buy something legit and know its a good product then Id stick with the marketplace. On my other windows phones I probably got 70 % of my stuff from the marketplace
as far as loading on stolen products.... from a place like ppcwarez well.. thats sort of talk isnt even condoned on here so I wouldnt gripe that we cant steal stuff and put it on our phone
The current jailbreak for our phones has actually been discontinued as they are in advanced talks with microsoft to actually open up the phones soon so we can do what we want with the devices. Thats the only reason they've halted their development. I don't think they'd do that if they didn't think microsoft wasnt serious about it.
I hate that we have to put out these fires. Chevron Unlocker is NOT the same as a "jailbreak" (I HATE that apple's terms are used here). WM HardSPL = iOS Jailbreak = Android rooting.
Hardspl wasnt a jailbreak. Wm6.5 really didnt need a jailbreak, tbh. Hardspl just let u flash radios indepemdent of the roms that typically include them.
The only time WM6.5 needed anything resembling a jailbreak was if your carrier did something to lock down the security of the phone (AT&T was notorious for blocking lots of third party WM apps from installing correctly, like they do on thier Android phones). And there was a tool to download that would unlock your phone for you in like 10 seconds or less...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Ok guys now I understand the difference between 'jailbreaking' and 'unlocking' the phone.. thanks for the clarification.. back in WM6.5 days we never needed any 'jailbreak'.. their was only 'unlocking'...
But it seems now the new phones comes with two locks.. one is the carrier lock and than second is the phone lock...
All because of Iphone! Imagine a computer where I cant access C:/ Drive .. its insane!!
I was doing some reading on the CES for 2013 and this article stated that Google will rule 2013 CES. So as im reading the writer states something about Apple never attends CES and that Windows phone is TO LATE.
What exactly does the statement, "Windows Phone is to late" ?
Ive seen this statement more than just this one time and wonder why people think its to late for Windows Phone. Am I missing something. Are they saying that Windows Phone doesnt stand a chance. Or are they saying there can only be Iphone and Android being your only choose for a smartphone? What about Blackberry, symbian, webos and others. Why do they seem to try to attack Windows Phone and say they dont stand a chance. I never once heard them state this about the new Blackberry OS. Are these people scared of Windows Phone potential on the competition?
Forgive me for rambling on, but im just curious about the topic and wonder why people are taking jabs at Windows Phone.
Windows has been in this game for a long time, a lot longer than Iphone and Android, and with the revamped system I feel they have much potential, but others feel they dont. Why is that?
i'm not sure what he meant....maybe he meant "too late"?
Too
Too
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937dytboi said:
I was doing some reading on the CES for 2013 and this article stated that Google will rule 2013 CES. So as im reading the writer states something about Apple never attends CES and that Windows phone is TO LATE.
What exactly does the statement, "Windows Phone is to late" ?
Ive seen this statement more than just this one time and wonder why people think its to late for Windows Phone. Am I missing something. Are they saying that Windows Phone doesnt stand a chance. Or are they saying there can only be Iphone and Android being your only choose for a smartphone? What about Blackberry, symbian, webos and others. Why do they seem to try to attack Windows Phone and say they dont stand a chance. I never once heard them state this about the new Blackberry OS. Are these people scared of Windows Phone potential on the competition?
Forgive me for rambling on, but im just curious about the topic and wonder why people are taking jabs at Windows Phone.
Windows has been in this game for a long time, a lot longer than Iphone and Android, and with the revamped system I feel they have much potential, but others feel they dont. Why is that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the typical closed-mindedness that accompanies anything new and late to the dance. That it carries the typically loathed Microsoft label, makes it even more of a target. WP7 has a lot of work to do, but there are those of us who like the product (faults and all) and who choose to support it to help it become successful, or until it fails.
Because Windows Phone IS Microsoft, and because of that, most people see Microsoft products as fail, but that was before with Zune Players and Vista.
And now that Microsoft is stepping up again with great products and services, and receiving positive reviews, haters obviously cant give pure positive comments about it, and because they pretty much cant admit that the OS is better than the one they're praising, instead they can only hope WP to fail - which is most unlikely to happen since most popular apps are already in WP Marketplace and OEMs are considering producing a WP.
Also, what kind of tech journalist would even use the words "too late" when really you can't be "too late" in the tech industry. I think Microsoft is already "waaaaay ahead" in tech industry with their Surface project.
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Not to sound like an android hater but, admit it, Microsoft is better than Google now. And the article I read about Google using Metro style on their services is bsh*t. Magazine-style? REALLY? I'd say its a cheap knock-off of Metro UI. Just because Microsoft promoted Segoe family font as a clean typography font, that doesn't mean you have to make a font (Roboto) and promote it and say "oh look its so modern and clean and pleasing to the eye" when clearly it looks a lot like Helvetica font.
That is all.
I think Microsoft is ahead, with stability and build quality being stunning on nearly every device. Sure dual core and such isn't out yet but with Android dual core is needed just to run smoothly. Take it from an ex Android Fanboy, Windows Phone 7 is not late, it's just on time.
I suspect it goes beyond that guys. I believe the too late sentiment is based on where Microsoft was before (Windows Mobile) and where Microsoft is now (Windows Phone).
Somewhere between Windows Mobile 6.5 and now we saw the emergence of iOS and Android. They have plenty to show for their efforts while Microsoft has very little. If they did something about it back then people would not say they are too late. No one really says that about Symbian.
Also, ultimately it is a prediction of demise.
I know this sounds like blind fanboyism, and maybe it is, but I honestly think if Microsoft did not go to sleep like they did they would not have come out with such a refreshing interface. It is hard to sound objective and say it was for the best because of course it was not, but with the way the landscape is going, I like where Microsoft is at (unification of platforms).
The two most picked on companies, Microsoft and T-mobile. Others can do no wrong.
Okay what i´ll say is that WP has the Prob that it is new,also a reaseon is that there is this IPhone Hype bute i think that this´ll stop the next few years,also what i think is,if i´m looking to androidbrothers there is the disadvantage that they´ve low specs compared with for eg. the Galaxy S2,eventhough i think that the Titan2,FocusS and Lumina are the right way but not right enough because they´ve no Dualcore CPU´s which is reason for which i think the most customers who want Highspec Devices choose an Android Device,also they´ve no really big new Features like 3D or so,and it seems to me like the People are saying,why to pay that amount of Money for this when i can get something really better!
And something at the end:My informatics teacher said before some weeks :"Now that Microsoft is beginning to bring the better products like Apple the people buy more Appleproducts while they´ve buyed more Microsoftproducts when Apple was much more better than Microsot",and i think that´s in some way´s sadly true
As a developer people always get hung up on worrying about waiting until the next bet. Use the current stuff and enjoy it.
937dytboi said:
I was doing some reading on the CES for 2013 and this article stated that Google will rule 2013 CES. So as im reading the writer states something about Apple never attends CES and that Windows phone is TO LATE.
What exactly does the statement, "Windows Phone is to late" ?
Ive seen this statement more than just this one time and wonder why people think its to late for Windows Phone. Am I missing something. Are they saying that Windows Phone doesnt stand a chance. Or are they saying there can only be Iphone and Android being your only choose for a smartphone? What about Blackberry, symbian, webos and others. Why do they seem to try to attack Windows Phone and say they dont stand a chance. I never once heard them state this about the new Blackberry OS. Are these people scared of Windows Phone potential on the competition?
Forgive me for rambling on, but im just curious about the topic and wonder why people are taking jabs at Windows Phone.
Windows has been in this game for a long time, a lot longer than Iphone and Android, and with the revamped system I feel they have much potential, but others feel they dont. Why is that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shorter version: don't believe all the crap you're reading. Find out for yourself.
Longer version: /Rant on
The truth is, WP7 was behind the other 2 big OSes: iOS and Android. Now it's almost on par with iPhone and clearly surpasses Android. Imho, Java has its limitations (Symbian folks understood that) but I'm not criticizing it. They ARE ahead on releasing for phones and tablets and that puts them ahead. However, as I said, Android has its limitations (really, no flame intended - other OSes have theirs too) and that's why it's not really picked up yet. The main complain is that it's not easy to use, so it's definitely not for older people, girlfriends, folks who need simple and straight stuff, or your little sibling With that in mind, iPhone fills this gap and WP7 tries to go even further, by bridging that simple use with the other Windows services: XBOX/Office.
Now that the stage is accurate and complete, Android is based purely on advertising and that also shows in the quality. iPhone by comparison, is a much more mature, stable and "you" (read simple) oriented experience. WP7 tries to make it even simpler than that while integrating more into the phone.
Who is right (now)? Does it matter? We all decide where the future is, so if you like something, act on it, whatever your choice is. If you will believe other articles and make your decision based on other's experience, you'll end up regretting it, as it won't be yours. So if someone comes and tells people "X is going to be the one" they either have been an oracle (and think they still are) in their past lives or they're paid to say so
/Rant off
I believe you should never compare previous iterations of something to the current iteration. You should simply just use it, and see how useful it is in your own life. Nothing is "too late". If its usable and serves a good purpose for what it does, then it's fine.
Besides, if we were supposed to buy stuff based on marketshare, we'd all drive Toyota Corollas, use iPhones, eat McDonald's and listen to Lady GaGa.
Did MS say themselves at CES 2012 that they won't be at CES 2013?
It's never too late. Things are constantly changing. People will always be buying new phones to replace theirs. Hopefully in a few years Android is an unpleasant memory.
Sent from my SGH-I897
I think the only way one cant 'test' if it's too late or not is by doing the following:
Get a Windows Phone. Here in the UK you can return it or swap it for something else within 27 days unless you buy it one of the contracts or sales. If you get such a deal, get one. Try it for ALL 27 days. If it's not going to rock your boat, then in your opinion it is too late. It rocked my boat in just first 4 hours. In my opinion, it's bang on time into the game. It's our opinions. We spend time on this discussion board much more than what we used to back in the day during WM6 and WM6.5 in development sections. This changes nothing for Microsoft. They jumped into the market after epic failure of WM6 and WM6.5 followed by Apple and Google's success stories. Such a huge software giant won't have a board/team of members who wouldn't have thought of how late they are in the game. Why would a software company invest in a software and push marketing with it's partner as if there is no tomorrow (I think they can do much better marketing) if even one person involved thought they are 'too late' in the game.
Philosophy - https://buddhasadvice.wordpress.com/2010/04/29/a-story-or-its-never-too-late/
Music - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL2ZwXj1tXM
Strike_Eagle said:
Did MS say themselves at CES 2012 that they won't be at CES 2013?
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Click to collapse
They will have a presence at CES 2013 but won't have a big booth or keynote.
Microsoft, like Google, isn't really a consumer electronics company. They don't manufacture many devices, apart from Xbox. I'd expect to see plenty of Microsoft and Google products at CES 2013 from OEMs. Windows 8 will be out, so there'll probably be lots of Windows 8 devices (e.g. tablets etc) on show.
For Windows Phone, Nokia will be at CES 2013 promoting their WP8 devices. Nokia won best smartphone of CES 2012 for the Lumia 900, so obviously Windows Phone wasn't too late for CES 2012 It will be interesting to see what happens next year.
Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.
nicksti said:
Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.
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I agree... windows phone has passed the iphone on many grounds with only a single core processor
Troll squashed Nothing to see here people, now move along back on topic.
nicksti said:
Just to keep some balance in here.
To say the Windows Phone has caught up with the iPhone is stretchier than Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four.
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Click to collapse
It blew past Android before it was launched.
Sent from my SGH-I897
No wonder people say we are fanatics. I guess they are right.
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much. But whats the reason? its pretty simple:
People want APPS not just apps, but whats the difference?
We see Microsoft advertising their software (skype, skydrive etc) all the time but with the iphone in front of it, there is no sign of supporting their own ecosystem!!!!
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has. Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
I actually think that if MS were to tie Google services in a bit tighter (counter-productive to Bing, I know) they'd see a wider adoption.
WP7 is at a disadvantage as Android and iOS had time to 'mature' in the market and get the userbase using their respective services before the WP alternative even existed. I know personally, I migrated away from MS services like Hotmail once I stopped using WinMo 6.
Without support for competitors services, there's not even an inclination to 'jump ship' and experience the other side. I enjoy using WP7 a lot - there's no more fluid experience on the market today. But because I can't properly use all my (now Google) services, I can never daily drive it.
yes thats also a good point! if they would work together with google in "peace" users would be more thankful. In europe bing is useless to be honest
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
The Lumia 900 should've been the device that launched the whole thing. Not one that came out 1.5 years after, and that followed it's little brother. 800 first? So people see it, aren't impressed, then see an ad for the 900... which is indistinguishable to people (present company excepted of course). It's just been ****ty luck and history mixed with bad marketing decisions.
Its Microsoft’s own fault things are the way they are. With Windows Mobile they didn't consider the phone market to serious until they saw Apples success but then they still came late to the game because instead of making Windows Mobile better they decided they would scrap it and come up with something new; only thing was that even though Windows Phone is faster and doesn’t freeze as much, they took away all features and functionality that people were used to. With Microsoft being so busy trying to be like Apple, Android took advantage of that; they knew that people didn't want a locked down OS. It is a shame that I have to hack, mod and flash my phone to have simple stuff like BT file transfer, video MMS, and a lot of other simple stuff that's avilabe for other phone OS's out there. I hope they don't screw up Windows Phone 8 like they did with Windows Phone 7.
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
I would say with market share that has doubled in the first quarter of 2012 in the USA and market share going up all around the world, that for a new ecosystem in the mobile world it is actually doing fairly well. With WP8 just around the corner and it being able to support much better hardware and screens and more customisation I would say that number will start to go up even quicker, it will be the 3rd ecosystem for sure fairly soon, It may even jump to 2 in certain countries around the world.
bassembrace said:
Alright folks lets get this straight..
Although Microsoft improved their hardware and software people are not going for windows phone very much.
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Click to collapse
We need to see Q2 global sales. I haven't bought a smartphone in YEARS and I finally jumped on the Windows Phone/Nokia bandwagon.
bassembrace said:
The truth is hard but people want official apps, good lookin games and everything that iphone and android has.
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Maybe. Statistics have shown most apps are never used a couple of weeks after they are downloaded. The ridiculous app numbers quoted for iOS are pointless. The vast majority of them, 99%, have zero utility for me.
bassembrace said:
Sure windows phone is pretty fast in bringing their OS forward in comparison to iOS back in the days BUT we dont live in those times anymore, there is too much competition. What can we do to make this understand the people from Microsoft? What are your thoughts about this? Dont get me wrong i love the OS and my HD7 but we have to see bigger improvements!
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Click to collapse
Marketing.
Beta was better than VHS. VHS won. The sheeple don't care about quality. It's not a case of "if you build it they will come." It is a case of "if you market it they will come." Anyone that holds a Lumia 900 up next to ANY iPhone and determines the iPhone is better is insane. Girlfriend has iPhone 4S. She saw my Lumia 900. She wanted one. Simple as that. You add in the fact the Lumia was FREE for weeks and you really need your head examined if you don't give it serious consideration. FREE Nokia drive?! Same GF had to pay $40.00 for Garmin app for a recent trip. That's $40 more than I paid for my phone and FREE nokia drive. Do NOT get me started on LTE.
The best does not always win. I just want three strong ecosystems competing. Watch what happens. iPhone 5 gonna come out with much larger screen. If not they are going to look silly next to Lumia 900 and Samsung Note. Samsung Note is redonkulous.
jasongw said:
I'm not at all worried about it. What you're seeing is the calm before the storm. When Windows 8 launches, Metro will be the new UI seen in every corner of the globe. The attention it will draw will bring more attention to Windows Phone--probably 8--at the same time. In the same launch window, and with the Windows Phone 8 OS, we'll finally see WP devices get hardware parity with Android devices, supporting multiple cores and large quantities of memory.
SkyDrive and Live Apps services are evolving week by week and making tremendous strides in a very short span of time. We're already using the SkyDrive app on current desktops and laptops, making it easy to move important files to Windows 8, and use documents across all our Microsoft connected devices.
It's correct to say that Windows Phone's struggles have all been Microsoft's own fault for lollygagging in the marketplace. There's no denying that, Microsoft screwed up. But they're heading in the right direction now, and it's only a matter of time before things turn around
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope your right and I also hope no more of this Apple style locked down crap either. What MS has failed to remember is that WM had a very faithful following because it was way better and user friendly than the iCrap.
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
sure haven't said:
Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them.
Years of... *shudder*... windows mobile. That was an extremely extremely niche platform. iPhone-type users (their new target) ran away screaming.
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Click to collapse
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
Lets hope they will do it! I remember when i got my hd7 my friends were like "whoaaa, you have windows phone!!" but now after they used my phone a few times theyre like "oh you still have this phone?" and i say yes because i love it, i love the OS and even the HD7 hardware but you cant do so much withouth the "exclusive" apps. I hope MCSFT get the most important cross platform apps to windows phone and dont scr** them up, like skype with no notification and background system or the new app viber without VOIP
Window mobile phone not going down at all. I honestly like what Microsoft's doing. There not pushing pointless apps out, there not shipping out phones that's loading with battery killing/memory hog apps.
Only thing that there behind in and my opinion is the build quality. 8G of memory no micro SD card slot! That's kills a perfect phone! If Ur going to do that - Microsoft, make an 8G, 16G, 32G, and 64G version
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So if all of this is true why do they market Windows Phone to not be in beta?
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
z33dev33l said:
Because even in this, "beta" of sorts it runs smoother and is a better device than the competition.
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So true! I was playing with the lumia 710 at an T-Mobile kiosk at the mall, and i fell in love. I wanted to leave my phone there and run away with the 710.
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magicsquid said:
Google has been wildly successful with Android (at least in terms of units) because Android was built to reduce friction between all sides of the market. The extreme flexibility of Android ‘bows down’ to the device manufactures AND the carriers. It enabled device manufactures to do what they do best (build lots of devices). It enabled carriers to do what they do best (market lots of devices). It enabled users tons of choice. My hypothesis is that it also enables too much fragmentation that hurts developers will eventually drive end users nuts.
With Windows Phone Microsoft has taken a different approach by putting the end user experience above all else. By focusing on delivering a consistent, well designed (and therefore less flexible) user experience WP raises its middle finger at both the device manufacturers and mobile carriers. WP says “here’s the hardware spec you shalt use” (to the device manufacturers). And it says “Here’s how it will be updated” (to the carriers).
Source: http://ceklog.kindel.com/2011/12/26/windows-phone-is-superior-why-hasnt-it-taken-off/
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Great post is great.
Sent from my Lumia 800 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
nicksti said:
Let me get this laid out so I can understand:
Why is Windows Phone not doing well?
"Years and years of dogma like blue screen of death follows them."
- So then why is Windows 7, the OS that actually is in the exact same product space, doing fantastically well?
Honestly, guys, if an argument has to be made there really needs to be some kind of logical progression to it.
Windows Phone is not doing well like every single OS not called "Android" or "iOS" because those are the most dominant OSes right now. Why are they dominant? Because Apple recreated the whole thumb optimized, mass-market smartphone experience and Google quickly followed suit. Everyone else (BB OS, Palm, Symbian, WinMo) were all caught napping and look are where they are now. When you bring Microsoft unique reasons you are failing to explain why RIM is also slowly dying as well. why Nokia killed off Symbian. Why WebOS could not make it.
I wish someone would put a sticky stating exactly why Windows Phone has such a low marketshare right now:
Android and iOs have the lion's share of the market. Either an iPhone or one of the hundreds of Android phones meet or exceed the average user's needs in a smartphone. There is no compelling reason right now for the average consumer to leave iOS or Android and go to Windows Phone.
There really is no mystery behind it. It is plain and simple. A co-worker just got a Samsung Focus used and his first reaction was "wow this thing is fast and smooth." I told him amazing too on a single core cpu. He has played with his share of Android phones. He then went on to curse having to use Zune to do his file management. lol.
But there is nothing really to dwell on. Vet is right; this topic is past being a dead horse. The Lumia 900 gave a little glimmer of something that would compel some people to switch, but there needs to be more handsets, features, and apps. And then they will come over. And that will take time.
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They still don't get it. 2 years and they don't get it.
BTW the new app deal by Nokia is horrible. MS should be doing it for the entire platform not just for Nokia. Some apps will be exclusive until 2013.
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vetvito said:
Not another one. Dig up threads from 2 years ago, and you'll see people with the exact same arguments.
Either way I look forward to BB and WP8.
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk 2
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+1 ...Yes ..another one !!!
Get a life m8's No its not going down ..
Saw this great article (http://www.wpcentral.com/nokia-causing-fragmentation-windows-phone-their-exclusive-apps) and it's worth discussion. Actually I'm pissed about what Nokia is doing. Is it by force to use a Nokia device?? If I dont, why I'm I being punnised for it by not getting some good apps?
Nokia has made moves to gain some big titles (and leverage) for their hardware. Who does it hurt? Who does it benefit and is it a good thing? I say a BIG NO, it's not a good thing. Good for Nokia but not for the OS (Windows Phone)
The real deal is, Nokia’s strategy to get these apps and games on their hardware will definetely hurt Windows Phone and I can see Nokia's Version of Windows Phone coming out real soon and it aint good.
Pissed this morning, Always Nokia, Nokia, Nokia all ove the news with exclusive good apps.....WTF
All of the applications will be timed exclusive to nokia phones. Since the applications will be arriving sooner or later to other windows phones, i see no harm is being made. That being said, i think this is nokia trying to make developers care for the windows phone platform and is helping them to develop their applications for windows. That is probably why they get a timed exclusive for their phones. In the end, every windows phone user will be benefited as more applications will arrive to the platform!
I do not see why this is a bad thing.
1. Every manufacturer has their exclusive apps. Nokia is not the first one to do this, it's what manufacturers need on WP7 to differ themselves from each other.
2. Some of these are not even proper exclusives. These are timed exclusive and will be available to other phones at a later time as well.
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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ESPN has another app, and is also available online. CNN can be pulled into any RSS reader. Are these the only examples you have?
If so, the argument is very weak.
For the apps that dont exist - would they at all anyway if not for Nokia? Would you get them any sooner if not for Nokia? At all?
I see no validity in the argument for fragmentation. App availability by region has always been there. Is China causing fragmentation in WP7 because Twitter and Facebook have been removed for any handset sold in China?
Kenzibit said:
I agree with you but wait for a year or what? Why do I have to wait soo long to get a CNN or ESPN app on my phone? How many people can just wait for apps they want desperately? I just can't wait and I just can't get a Lumia device so what? How about we that fall in this category?
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Because Nokia is investing the time and money to develop these apps in the first place or at least is incenting the content owner (CNN or ESPN) to create these apps.
as eknutson described it already: If not for Nokia, you'd probably not see these apps at all or at least a lot later, when the OS has seen a wider range of adoption.
Let me also point out that some apps are not even without an alternative. Take the announced "BOX" app: Why wait for an official app, if "Boxfiles For Box.net FREE" does the same job?
If you managed to live without a paypal app this long, why not another 6 months?
hMM
i have to admit the ESPN app on Nokia is nice, I just used the switcher app in the forum.
LOL, what is all the nonsense about fragmentation?
You act like the apps won't work on other WP devices.
Nokia coughed up their own money to make the developers bring these apps to WP and you want them to then share with other OEMs?!?
OEMs who have been in the game significantly longer and have simply twiddled their thumbs and blamed MS for all WP woes while pumping out me-too devices as opposed to innovating?
BE REAL!
Thank Nokia for giving these developers the incentive to give WP the time of day.
Once they begin working on their apps, they will realize just how easy it is to code for the OS, leading to more apps in the future as opposed to the current developers having to rely on APIs that blocked all the time (Pandora, Instagram) so they too can produce their own original apps for the platform.
Plus fragmentation refers to the OS version, not the apps themselves.
And if you're so mad about it, go buy a Nokia device.
Well let's see, either Nokia gets them first by paying cash out of their own pockets and then in time shares it with the OEMs who couldn't care less about doing anything for the platform, or we don't get them at all because no OEM cares. Without Nokia, WP7 really would be a lesser OS. Don't get me wrong, I used a DVP for almost a year before the first Nokia device got sent my way, but Nokia made WP7 MUCH better.
Not only does this give us the games, it builds the framework to create future versions of the game. This is helping WP7 perpetually, now stop getting angry that you picked up a piece of recycled android hardware and be happy for all that Nokia has done for our fine OS.
Other OEM's are free to make deals with big development companies too...
But they won´t, take a look at HTC for example, they could make deal with Route 66 about navigation, for example one/two free maps, but no, they offer you trial, and then you must pay.
Excellent comments so far but I still don't think it's fair for people to benefit more than others on the same OS. In the Android world, I think it's about OS customizations and not apps benefits. All apps are acquired by everyone, the only difference being your customizations and experience.
Secondly, I know some HTC and MS workers will see this post, after all they are here with us under disguise ;-)
Yea, right, I hate everyone who owns an HTC because he has an sound enhancer...wait, I don´t, I don´t even hated LG for having DLNA app in front of many others...just think please!
Some companies put simply more effort into the platform, HTC puts it into the Android OS, Nokia is so far first OEM whose commitment can be really seen, and you want to hate just because of that? Gimmie a break.
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
thebobp said:
It could encourage HTC and Samsung to retreat even more from Windows Phone, if their sales get that much worse in comparison.
And if they instead take the initiative and start on the same strategy then that would be fragmentation, just like the article says. Temporary fragmentation, to be sure, but what happens when someone realizes that "I either buy HTC and get this and this app, or Samsung and get this and this app, or Nokia and get this and this app"?
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Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
vnvman said:
Going on this way Android should have failed real quick then. But apparently it's alive and well...to me stepping up the competion always leads to a win for the user. Without HTC and other OEMs skinning the older, fugly and piss poor versions of Android there would have been no Android boom at all IMHO. Thanks to them actually investing on the platform, it is now the most relevant phone OS in the world. Not bad heh?
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I'm not talking about skinning (which the user can rationalize as "am i buying this look or that look?" ) but apps actually being unavailable depending on which phone you buy. Say all manufacturers start advertising very hard: "come to us; the others don't have these apps!" Unfortunately, this is negative advertising, and incoming users would start wondering "eh, why don't i just go to iOS, where i'll have all of them?" that's the essence of fragmentation.
Of course, the other alternative (that nobody else bothers to escalate) is almost as bad.
sent from my Terran Command Center.
This thread must be a wind-up. Seriously -- no one could be complaining about "fragmentation" due to one OEM deciding to bring more value to their own handsets.
Kenzibit said:
Is Nokia causing fragmentation on Windows Phone with their exclusive apps? YES
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I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
HTC can join the party or fold. By Nokia enticing developers with ITS OWN MONEY they are only expanding the Windows Phone eco system. I don't really see a time in the future where so many apps are bought up everyone has a hard time getting an app on their phone. Once a critical mass of apps are on Windows Phone more handsets will sell and developers will create apps without incentives. Heck if someone enticed epocrates to create a Windows Phone version of their software I would buy that brand of phone. That would be better than the current state of affairs (ie nothing).
sitizenx said:
I don't understand your use of the word "fragmentation." At present if a developer chooses to make an app that works on ALL Windows Phones they can. If some developer is sitting on their @$$ and only servicing the iphone market and a manufacturer makes a deal and pays the developer to make an exclusive app for their phone I don't see what the problem is. It's not like they are saying, hey ebay I know you have a Windows Phone app. Why don't I pay you to pull it and only make it for my handsets.
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Same result either way: the app is available only for Nokia (at least temporarily). If you agree the latter is fragmentation, then you'll agree the former is. Fragmentation for a good reason is still fragmentation.
Right now it's not that worrisome; what is worrisome is if the others happen to respond in kind. Then we'll really have fragmentation of apps - "such and such is available only on HTC Windows Phone, such and such only on Samsung Windows Phone, and such and such only on Nokia".
That's not "fragmentation," it's "exclusivity."
Different issue.