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Hi Kyphur,
Happy easter all of you!
hope you have nice easter .
Will 0.3 will be released this weekend?
AdoMad
STOP This at once!
If you only READ before you post, stop posting questions repeatedly!
0.3 Will be ready when it's ready and thats it!
yea man just have some patience.
it will some come and we will have some fun ;-)
happy easter to you all.
Okay, this thread is going to go no-where but to some possible bashing.
Could it be closed?
He asked a question... He got his answer, I dont see any reason to argue or cause any grief on this matter whatsoever.
STOP it at once !
I suggest to close this and to ban the noobs who ask this dummies questions !
This Forum
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
dallen said:
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
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Click to collapse
I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
This is by far one of the best technical forums around. These forums were created to support development, not for the average phone hobbyists. Everything here should be considered "beta". Unfortunately people think everything is going to work 100% of the time. This will not be the case.
I think the moderators are doing a pretty good job. I do believe that more posts should get removed before the flame job starts.
Long story short....XDA is a great resource...give it a chance. I believe you would have really liked XDA a couple of months ago before "Hofo migration" started aka the "8525 effect". I hope the forums will return to the concise and straight forward technical and developmental forums that they were a couple of months ago.
tco said:
I don't think the people here are elitists. I believe they are tired. Tired of the same questions being posted over and over. This thread would have been answered with the search function.
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tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
dallen said:
tco,
Thanks for replying. I agree with everything that you said. The reason that I highlighted the above is because I take issue with a portion of what you say. If people are tired of answering "simple" questions that they feel could be answered with a simple seach, then why don't they show their diapproval by not answering and allow these types of questions to either go unanswered, where they will quickly fall to the bottom of the message board, or better yet, allow someone that doesn't mind answering these types of question to answer them?
I've sifted through 70 pages of posting after posting just to find the answers to some relatively simple questions that I've had (this in spite of utilizing the advanced searching features). I could have saved a bunch of my time if I weren't so afraid of being chastised for asking a question that has already been answered in some 80-page thread.
I think people should be free to ask questions without fear of being criticized. Maybe a special section of the forum ought to either be dedicated to these types of questions, or a section of the forum ought to be restricted to "senior members." Either way, I strongly feel that the ones that deserve to be harassed are not those with questions, but those that feel that they are too good to simply offer an answer and choose to belittle the asker.
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Click to collapse
Keep in mind you sifted through 70 or 80 pages of posting because they were so many of the same questions being asked. The truth is I am also tired of going through 80 pages to stay of the up to date. In the past 24hrs things have improved compare to the past 4-8 weeks (less postings and more reading, testing and reporting).
dallen said:
I've been a long time visitor and active member of many forums. However, I only recently have had the fortune of discovering this wonderful forum where unbelievable things are being done. This forum is beneficial to me via my Cingular 8525 and I greatly appreciate the plethora of knowledge contained within this forum and those that help by graciously making this knowledge available to others.
That being said, I cannot believe the despicable elitist attitude of many of the members. I understand and am willing to overlook the use of the term noob or newbie; however, I do not understand the amount of belittling and the attitude that is allowed to propagate in this forum and find it incomprehensible. Not only does it degrade an otherwise amazing forum, it speaks volumes about those charged with moderating the forum.
In my opinion, everyone here would benefit from a dramatic shift in the level of tolerance of this behavior. Furthermore, the moderators should reevaluate their policies and consider changing their stance on this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like. How would you like it if you put xxx hours building and testing for 100 people to come in and ask the same question over and over, they don't appreciate it 1 bit. don't blame jas for saying **** it and not wanting to publicly release any more, yeah that means I won't see any of his roms, but I would have done the same with the reactions that were seen with 2.0. The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
CUSTEL said:
Their responses are in line and they behold the ability to react however they would like.
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Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
CUSTEL said:
The site is called xda DEVELOPERS for a reason. this isn't the site for someone that knows **** about their phone but wants to "look cool to their friends" the sooner this is realized the sooner the forum can get back to a civilized manner.
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If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
dallen said:
Then that means that we are also free to "react however [we] like" to their reactions. I, for one, see these "reactions" as immature, unjustified, and despicable. From now on, I will exercise my "ability to react however like" by calling people out for acting childish.
If this site were intended to be solely for "developers," then registrations would be limited only to that class of members.
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That is the most ignorant thing I have ever read.
First thing... this thread is being locked because the original poster did NOT need to start a thread like this.. This is something he could have read in another thread or pm'd kyphur for...
2nd thing is how the thread was hijacked yet again by people complaining, whining, sharing there opinions on something that wasnt related to the topic... there is already a topic for this that is open to everyone... the mods are taking our stance and working on what we feel should be acceptable.. This sub-fora has done a complete 180 from what it was like earlier this week...
@dallen ... your choice to speak out on the matter here in this thread where it wasnt appropriate and doesnt make it any better than the ones before you.. like i mentioned above there is a thread for this, so before you quickly tell others they were out of line maybe you should look at yourself...
@custel yes this was designed to be a developers forum, however due to the growth of HTC popularity the site has transformed into more than that... just read whats on the homepage of xda-developers.com
Welcome to xda-developers.com
This site is about certain PDA-phones, made by a secretive firm called HTC in Taiwan. Their makers named them 'Wallaby', 'Himalaya', 'Blue Angel', 'Wizard' and 'TyTN', but almost nobody knows them by those names. The mobile provider O2 sells them under the brand-name 'XDA', and that's what we had in our hands first. They're also known as Qtek, MDA, SX-56, Hermes and many, many other names.
Since we develop software for it, we need information, and nobody seemed eager or ready to give us what we needed. So we 'reverse-engineered' the devices, found a lot of information, and shared it with the world. But as our site grew we realised that lots of ordinary users were also suffering from a lack of support. They started using the xda-developers forum to communicate and before long the forum was as much a user forum as it was a developer forum.
We hope that you will enjoy this site and find it as useful as we do. We encourage you to donate or otherwise support this site. Of course absolutely all proceeds from donations will benefit this community.
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Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.
On my personal opinion, I´m not a Mod or Dev, I´m just a simple member
Of course XDA-DEVS has been changing and adapting
Is not the same to have a site with 30 members with more personal and friendly contact between them than to have a site with hundreds of users...
personal friendly contact of course is lost in certain way, I don´t mean that XDA is not friendly anymore, but rules must change and adapt to the big site that has become now
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
Just my personal point of view, not intend to offend anyone
Cheers,
There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.
One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
Thresher said:
Have there been some rule, practices or standards changes to how members should be interacting on the forums of XDA?
More now than ever I see an increase in moved threads, derogatory comments from older members and a lack of consistency in regulating and allowing questions, answers and comments to be made on the forums. Is this a fabrication of my own mind or has there been an increase that other have noted?
If there have been changes and if there has been an increase in complaint about usage of the forums, conduct, etc, than why have members not received an updated TOS or an email indicating what the changes are? Why are pinned, stickied threads not universally posted across forums so all members see them regardless of what sub-forum they are in?
In other words, why for 4 years does the forum seem polite, friendly and awesome but today I fear to press SUBMIT on anything?
Is the community being stiffled because there are so many new HTC users and they are newbs and taking advantage of the positive community that XDA is?
Anyway I hope that XDA is not seeing an influx of stupidity in it's user community and thus causing pain to the real heroes on this forum. Some of us have politely used this forum as a resource and LIFE SAFER for our devices and we definately don't want things to change.
Thanks for any input to help me ease back into posting and having dialogs with the rom devs and cooks.
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Please See:
TheChampJT said:
There have been a lot of threads being moved to help with the organization. Mainly with the floods of anonymous questions in the wrong areas.
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Click to collapse
aE3-ink said:
One major problem seems to be the people who never think to read the wiki, seems that 90% of the 'help' posts could have been answered by looking at the wiki.
(I'm definitely a wiki fan as it helped me to learn to flash my phone correctly).
I imagine the problem is that now these phones are more accessible to a wider public, people turn up without any real idea of how things function in here (and indeed in many forums of all sorts).
I've only been here a short while & at first (after learning how to modify my device) did try to answer a few questions with links to the wiki, but after a few days I've become lazy when I see those 'help ! my phone is bricked !' type threads. Which is actually pretty crap on my part as I'm a noob who learnt by looking (& has still much to learn & look through) & I should make an effort to help out other noobs & relieve a bit of the pressure off the older members & mods.
Maybe an idea would be that someone (or some people) could make a small section of noob help to be added to the first mail a member receives when signing up. It could contain links to the wikis & the general hints upon searching before asking obvious questions.
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Click to collapse
orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
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So yeah, there have been an influx of "stupid" newbs. people who take without regard for the informal structure that has existed for years.
There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infractions.
orb3000 said:
That´s the main problem
Nobody READS, so if more threads pointing to the Wiki are created is going to be the same, noobs will not READ, because as I´ve said before only a few members really care for this site, the mayority only cares for it´s own device problems, want to be answered and in the best case you get a thank you...
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What I meant was to not create new threads but answering the posts with the link to the wiki. I just did a few here :
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481763
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=481739
Mainly trying to make them go to the wiki to find their answer.
I guess it's doing half the work for them but I can imagine that some people come along & aren't used to digging around & sometimes need a wee shove to help them along.
Of course some just don't care & I imagine you long timers & mods/admin get really tired of them, so us newer members should start to help out even if it is only in a small way.
orb3000 said:
Of course more rules have to apply.
Also imagine you are a Mod and you find that in a year you answered the same question like 1000 times!, of course you´ll be more sensitive when someone ask the same again.
80% of the members here never READ the rules so they don´t care about them, they just want to be attended and answered by their personal needs
In a few words only a few people really respect this site.
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Good point, well taken.
Thanks, for the input. I do appreciate it.
Actually, if you read the guidelines Peter P wrote all them years ago they still apply.
For example:
1. Check if something hasn't been asked before - a lot of the mod activity is enforcing this, removing / closing redundant questions that already have answers. The other day I closed a thread with the answer of the wiki home page, nothing more (I was feeling mean ), and 10 minutes later I saw the user download the software they asked for - they must have found the software by searching and reading the wiki .
Just my 2p's worth,
Dave
@Thresher
I guess JimmyMcgee is a bit harsh (stupid newbs), but has a good point anyways. I have been a member of this since July 2005 and this place has not changed a bit. Every single value and rule is the same as when I joined. The structure that this site has, has worked for many years, making this a haven for people that either want to learn or simply need help. It is not the site's rules and regulations that have changed, but the quality of people joining the site...
Over the past year, I have seen virtually every single one of the main and most common sense rules being broken. Point and case, do you know how many threads in Chinese, German, French, Italian (I have yet to see one in Spanish but I have seen a few posts with a lot of cursing in Spanish ) and an endless number of other languages have been started over the last year?? This is an English speaking forum and if I am not mistaken, one of the rules is "please post in English so others can understand"... one would think thats common sense. Of course, you will have the good ol' fashioned person (to avoid name calling) that will rant about how they don't speak English and that it is very unfair how they cannot ask questions (or read the comments) because of that... To that I say, "Google is a wonderful thing, you know? You can do things such as writing your stuff and then using the translate function to turn your question into something that some people might actually be able to understand." Believe me, my first language is Spanish and I would like nothing more than to make less effort into writing, but hey it's not a matter of what I like and what is more convenient... it's common sense.
Now, I read your original thread in the Q&A question where you complained that you posted something in the Raphael forums and got moved somewhere else. That thread where you placed your post clearly stated that no posts/replies were supposed to be made. So, the mods decided to move it where they saw fit to belong. That is what the mods are here for, to turn this utterly, disorganized, never ending chaos that we call a forum and make it enjoyable for them as well as for other members. And they do a great job at that!
Long story short, (again quoting JimmyMcgee)
"There haven't been any Changed to the Rules. Just maybe MORE enforcement to respond to MORE infraction."
Thanks for understanding.
The longer one is on the site, the more one answers the same questions over and over the less nice you are going to be about it.
Loads and loads of people have google search XDA link in there sig, and 90% of questions have been answered at least once before, sometimes even on the same page.
People are lazy, and want it handed to them on a plate, its sad.
The world is constantly developing and changing, the internet reaches more places in the world than ever. With satallites, virtually the whole earth is covered by some sort of cell service ( well except my downstairs office where I can never get a signal ). With the advent of global email and texts, more people than ever have cell phones, and the number of PDA's grow every month.
What used to be a small forum of enthusiats trying out and sharing hacks, to try to make their phones better, has turned into one of , if not the best source of information on the net for Windows Mobile phones. I have not been to a windows mobile , HTC or carrier forum on the net that doesn't reference XDA to people with " unanswerable " questions.
With this designation of " the authority " comes the influx of human nature. "The I want it and I want it now's." The people who think that this is HTC's tech support. The people who don't really care about their phones and don't want to, but just have one question and cannot see why you cannot just anwer it and let them get on with their lives, etc...etc.... Go to any other enthusiast site and see how ignorant ( ie: unknowledgeable ) people get treated, not much differently. " I know that this is a high performance engine forum, where people trade ideas on how to increase the horse power of high performance cars, but can someone tell me where the dipstick is on my 1999 mini van ?"
Too bad there wasn't a way to route every noob or web redirect through a home page that includes the " what XDA is " and the posting rules page, before they can navigate to the site itself. Maybe for at least their first 10 posts or more. The fustrations with redundant questions, ungrateful noobs, people that think this is tech support are endemic of any forum. But I really think that ti is not a problem here, as much as I have seen on other sites. And if someone wants to remedy it, I think the remedy has to work friom the noobs up and not from the seniors down.
Google is a wonderful thing but as Google admits to: human nature, vocabulary, language and grammar make search engine results wildly different for each user. Google also has issues with short words and abbreviations which are used a lot throughout XDA.
The WIKI is great.
I guess other forums I use have a feature to show you similar questions based on the language you used before you finish your post. I wonder if this forum has that ability. I think it comes as part of the vBulletin package but it takes a toll on the server due to DB hits.
I went to Android with the sweetest phone on the market (Samsung Galaxy S) and never looked back. However I still have my Tilt and Tilt2 and I thought I might try and install Froyo or something tastly on my old phones...
THESE FORUMS ARE A MESS!
So here I am, and by the look of it there is nothing going on but people flooding the forum with cries for help and people waving the white flag. I assume the big boi dev's moved on to better devices as I did or they got tired of you clowns flooding this forum. ANYONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE DEAL IS. IF THERE IS ANYTHING GOING ON MAYBE WE SHOULD STICKY IT OR MOVE ALL THESE QUESTION THREADS, THIS ONE INCLUDED TO A SUBTHREAD.
If they have it working on my Tilt half way decent I cant belive the Tilt2 is getting ditched.
What are you talking about dude? There's a sticky thread already. There's just too many people who can't read FAQ's and are asking the same questions again and again. As this project gets more popularity, more people flood the forums.
how do you have almost as many posts as I, and not even know about the biggest project on rhodium?
do you even read anything in these forums?
and as far as i know, we have the best devs right here on site giving constant top tier advice, updates, software, hacks and mods.
what white flags do you see, besides "iphone" users who try their hand at a real device.
stick to ur samsung, this is HTC.
kroniced said:
I when to Android with sweetest phone on the market (Samsung Galaxy S) and never looked back. However I still have my Tilt and Tilt2 and I thought I might try and install Froyo or something tastly on my old phones...
So here I am, and by the look of it there is nothing going on but people flooding the forum with cries for help and people waving the white flag. I assume the big boi dev's moved on to better devices as I did or they got tired of you clowns flooding this forum. ANYONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE DEAL IS. IF THERE IS ANYTHING GOING ON MAYBE WE SHOULD STICKY IT OR MOVE ALL THESE QUESTION THREADS, THIS ONE INCLUDED TO A SUBTHREAD.
If they have it working on my Tilt half way decent I cant belive the Tilt2 is getting ditched.
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You're dumber than the noobs on here, at least they had the sense to check STICKY at the TOP of the page. And I'm gonna tell you what all the noobs get told...SEARCH!!!
TP2 (XDandroid) XDA App
So, you open a new thread to ask a question which was answered in the very first thread on the forum, that was also stickied. Then you begin to use vulgarities to debase other forum members? I'm glad you use another phone, and don't come to this forum anymore.
Not to pile on but that first stickied thread has over 9,000 posts and 1,000,000 views. Even a noob like me knew to go there first.
*giggle*
Thread cleaned.
Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules regarding flaming, language and respect for other members.
pulser_g2 said:
Thread cleaned.
Please familiarise yourself with the forum rules regarding flaming, language and respect for other members.
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Thanks Senior Mod.
Wondered whom the person was calling clowns. Unless we have an apology, the person should be suspended.
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
Agreed... and to add another question why do some devices have a Q&A sub-section and some not? Seems inconsistent. Anyway the forums are hard to navigate anyway (too many sub-sections, outdated stickies, too many "READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST"-threads etc..). I guess at least the Q&A part could be merged with 'General' of every forum. Also Accessoires & Wallpapers/Themes get an extra sub-section? I'd lump everything together and make just two per device (General/Dev).
Oh and don't take this as "This is how you run a forum " - just my humble opinion
Ok. When a device general forum gets over 10,000 posts, or 1000 threads, it gets a Q&A section.
General vs dev only would result in even more junk in both to be fair...
I reckon at present there is a good balance as almost everything is consistent across the site. Go to HTC G1. It has, by and large, the same layout as all other sections.regarding outdated stickies, contact the mod for the relevant section by pm and point it out.
Regarding questions being moved, we can only move what we know about or see... So drop the mod for the section a PM with the threads.
MarkusPO said:
At least one post in 90% of threads here have a question in them, so why aren't they all moved to the Q And A threads? Forums are discussions of opinions and questions for each other to talk about.
If one thread is going to be moved that (imo) is not a question, then why aren't all the others? tbh, it annoys me, and i think the moderation here is a little too heavy handed.
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Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
pulser_g2 said:
Heavy handed? Howso??? Feel free to PM if you want.
Typically, the original post in a thread defines the rest of the thread. If it is a question, then evidently the correct place is Q&A. I don't really see any way to argue with that to be fair.
Regarding a question that emerges later on in a thread, perhaps a move is not needed. For example, are you suggesting a ROM thread should be moved because someone asked a question?
As before, the reason some things get moved and others don't is because we are not aware of them. The report post feature, and pm to the section mod, are both essential in letting us know what is going on.
Finally, XDA is a development site first and foremost, so keeping questions clear of development areas is a pretty high priority. People spamming the dev areas with pointless and basic questions annoy everyone, and just bury the content we are all here to see (ROMs and tweaks)
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Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go? naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
MarkusPO said:
Thanks for the response. My time here has been fairly short I know, but I'm not new to forums of course, and this is my experience thus far:
a thread that wasn't a question, but was about speculation for a nexus tablet was merged into the 'what phone / tablet should i buy next' thread. wtf.
I will look into this. Sounds strange.
other threads have been merged into semi-related, but not completely related threads. wtf.
i see sticky threads for newbies about development in - for example - the nexus s general on how to root / mod etc. wtf.
Those threads are pertaining to development, as without a way to root/hack the device, nobody can really develop for it. That's basically the way it's been for ages, so that's unlikely to change.
i know it's a fine balance between heavy-handedness to try to enforce an overall tidy forum vs user intuition and the chaoticness that is the weird and wacky thoughts of people.
You are right, it's hard on occasion to strike a balance, but to be honest, you have no idea what kinds of trolls we get here Most of the time we can sweep away the awful stuff before people see it...
imho this processing of my threads annoys me, and i'm sure it does other people too. if it drives people away, then that's bad for advertisement revenue. as long as threads are in the sort-of-right forum, then so-what. i for one tend to browse all the forums for a particular phone. so i'm going to reply if something catches my attention.
Fair point, but we have about 600,000 threads I can assure you we won't be cutting the number of forums per device, as that would make things unmanageable. Regarding the "right sort of forum", will address next. The trouble is that when I want to find some hack or tweak, I go to development. I don't expect to hunt through 200 pages of "I NEED HALLLLLLLLLLLP PLEEEEEEEEEEEZ NAOOOOOOOOOOOOOO KTHX" just to find a buried "[Mod] Trackball Wake source edit" or whatever...
though, i do like the concept of having an accessories forum, dev forum, and general forum. i don't think a q+a forum is needed, ie. if i were to ask "does the otterbox commuter have this feature as a thread starter" where should it go?
That would go in accessories. To be honest the Q&A is actually for beginner device questions moreso than that. I do see your point here, but I think you are misunderstanding the idea for the Device Q&A forum. If you want to ask "how do I flash a ROM on SPL v0.1", then Q&A is the place to go If you are more asking about a theme, then themes & apps is the place to ask it (provided it's about one of the existing themes and you can post in the existing thread). Regarding development forum, the idea there is that ONLY roms and other hacks go there, or discussions about achieving them. Essentially, anything not development related should be in general ("I like this device, do you?", "Is your screen darker at the bottom than top"? etc...), and the questions about ROMs etc in Q&A...
naturally the accessories forum, but it's a question... if i were after information about accessories, i'd head to the accessories forum as i may have the same question.
It would belong to the accessories forum. As above, Q&A is for device/ROM questions.
forums thrive on questions and answers. moving some questions to a q+a forum, and appearing to turn a blind eye to others just doesn't make sense. yes, so you miss some, but visitors don't know what you miss, and what you leave.
Interesting... You got any such examples? It would not be normal to move a question thread from a forum other than development, in my experience, so if there's an example, I'd love to see it. If you mean moving questions from development, that's not something we're likely to change, as it drives away the developers and hackers who make the ROMs you use
There shouldn't be any "blind eye turning", though if something is borderline or in doubt, it wouldn't usually be moved.
i'm thinking maybe test out a slightly looser mod regime for a while and allow related questions in the forums.
Other than the development forums (they're not going to change- we're having to add restrictions in there as well like postcount to stop spam and junk), that should be the way it is... Please PM me any examples you see, as I'd be keen to follow them up.
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Answers inline.
P
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions. I can honestly say that i have rarely seen a response in a Dev thread that was directly related to moving the rom forward from a true development perspective. Most of the guys complaining about the rules don't seem to actually understand the rules themselves. Let me clarify.... Starting a thread is not the same as posting within one. There is one rule that most of the forum police seem to always over look and that is 2.3
"2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior."
So before you jump down someones throat about not following rules maybe try taking a look at the rules and make sure you understand them yourself. I'm sure someone will ask how this relates to our phone and the answer is that it doesn't. It does however relate directly to the e4gt community.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
I think the biggest reason people get flamed for asking questions in the dev thread is that they don't follow rule number 1 of the forum rules...
"1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news."
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=17681946
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The thanks button is there to prevent a ton of low/no content "awesome work" posts. Who wants to wade thru posts like that? I sure don't.
Honestly. Based on the wording of these rules. The dev section should be for releases then locked down. Cause honestly there is very little talk in the dev threads that can be considered development related. Almost everything I have seen in the dev threads since I have been on XDA could really be considered general talk. Let me say too that I'm not opposed to having the dev section only for releases. I think it would be a lot nicer if it was reserved for releases only. Most of the actual dev work takes place on twitter or the IRC from what I've seen. So it wouldn't hender development.
As for people jumping down someones throat for asking a question. Honestly. I think some people just look for a reason to play forum police. I have been called every name in the book. Sometimes I deserved it. Other times I didn't. Just have to ignore it sometimes. If someone sees a post that shouldn't be. Use the report button. If you're happy with a ROM or an answer. Use the thanks button. Google the hell out of ****. Best advice I could give anyone. But I will never agree with someone jumping someones ass for asking a simple question. We were all new to the forums at one time. Unfortunately you can't teach class.
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
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Its because your taking valuable space from others that have to let everyone know they are "downloading it now!!" instead of giving useful feedback for the community.
Its the me mentality.... Blame society and the educational system.
azyouthinkeyeiz said:
A lot of the flaming, besides chastising outright stupidity, is from these high school aged kids who think of XDA as an extension of their "root cliques" at school. Posting childish memes, and making threads popularity contests.
Your problem is trying to rationalize ignorance.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk
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The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
ungovernable1977 said:
The probem is you are trying to rationalize flaming. I dont care how stupid a post may be, crapping on someone is childish, and flat out against the rules, whereas what is considered development is pretty gray... I agree with the above that if these lil forum nazis want to keep whining, the Mods should lock the Dev threads only to the Devs, and have a general thread for it... as RIDICULOUS as that is, if it drives these kiddie antics back to Facebook where they belong, so be it.
The funny part, when someone like say iSaint posts a funny meme/pic or new sig, I have NEVER seen anyone complain... its just when you see an opportunity to attack a percieved weakness (asking a question, not being completely up to date on a thread) and capitalize on it... that is pathetic. Some kids need affirmation from daddy or something. Go talk smack elsewhere.
I really think the Mods (not just jerdog, I think its obvious there needs to be a group decision) to clarify the Dev thread rules... seems each device develops its own dynamic for the community, this one needs a little structure not just crazy sheriffs who show up a day late guns blazing. Just clarify what you want to see and dont want to see in Dev threads, so this dispute can be over. It will be sad if theres no humor or fun in this forum because a few people cant figure out how to stay updated on their favorite ROM, and learn to skim threads for info they are actually interested in... but its better than lil internet tough guys.
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Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
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iSaint said:
Even I don't post crap in the development section
Must respect it.
And when I was a new member I helped as much as I could answered alotta stuff but it gets repetitive and just ridiculous.
This is a developers site for developers normal people shouldn't even be posting to be honest
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Dont get me wrong, I dont have any problem with your humor... just saying that when its funny people tend to forgive off topic, but if its phrased as a question, you are told to piss off... its just really vague. I used to rarely post in Dev in the epic4g forums, as for a long time the threads WERE development... but as we all know, the devs tend to IRC or twitter or whatever... its not in the XDA threads like it used to be. I actually really miss that, I could pop in whenever and learn from the ones who know what they're doing... I really feel weird going to a chatroom at 35 years old, and regardless, dont have time, I have my own real world 5 year old to raise. Anyways, maybe they should REALLY crack down, and if its not DEVELOPMENT it goes in the general forum... I asked a question in the dev thread about how to flash CNA, more clarifying what the preferred method is with the devs, as thats who I usually listen to... and it turned into a flamewar... it was stupid... I should have just walked away, but I have just seen a lot of people get blasted with a dozen posts for something really innocuous... so I decided to say something, and actually I should have paid more attention to which CNA thread I was in... they look the same, just different off topic conversation at any given time! But questions pertaining to the ROM... cant have that... cant have that.
The solution?
How about we lock the development threads after the developer has posted what they needed to? Why don't we also close the Q&A section so people don't start
flamewars about questions being asked multiple times? You know what, we might as well just close the entire forum and make it so only developers can join and share their work together.
This should help you out some:
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
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5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
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15. Keep posts/threads on-topic
Whilst a minor amount of off-topic posting may be overlooked, the general rule is your posts / threads must be relevant to the Forum / thread in which you are posting.
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XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
jerdog said:
This should help you out some:
XDA is for development - that's why we exist. We created the extra sections so as to try and head off all the off-topic drivel (and yes, "OMG THIS IS SO AWESOME!" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR TWINS!" are off topic) and to try and keep Development as clean as possible. And as is the ongoing nature of the beast, there are people who don't read the rules and go ahead and post anyway. And we can't police everything 24x7 because we are all volunteer.
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Oh there it is... right in the rules...
scarmon25 said:
I think its always gonna be a double edge sword. You need user count to raise value of ads and pay server and any employees Xander may have. But in turn that brings in a lot of non development people.
Now. Since you don't have to have an account to download from the site. That could be good or bad. Good as it gives people a way to download without an account but bad as it keeps user count down and could generate a loss in revenue. I mean something has to pay for all the XDA TV and all the other things that this site has. So I really think that locking Dev sections down to developers only is a good idea. But that brings about another issue. Who qualifies as a dev? What would one have to do. If simply making a ROM and releasing is all one has to do then hell I can do that. It may be stock touchwiz but still it would be a ROM. So there will always be this and that.
I am as guilty as the next guy for posting non dev posts in the development section. That's the one reason I don't flame someone for doing the same.
Any who. That's my thoughts on it.
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In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
jerdog said:
In theory you have a point, but before the users there were developers who wanted to share with other developers. If the users went away then there would still be developers and you wouldn't need as much moolah to run the site so you wouldn't need as much hosting, etc.
my Galaxy Note screen is bigger than yours
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Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
scarmon25 said:
Yep. You are absolutely correct. That's why I say its always gonna be a double edged sword. XDA has grown so big that at this point it would be almost impossible to go back to that point. I honestly think that the best way to eleviate the dev section of BS and such would be to implement a a title other then recognized developer that would be reasonable to obtain. And close off dev section to post. Anyone could browse that section. But only people with the appropriate titles could post. That "may" help bring some of the real development back to XDA and off the IRC, twitter, ect.
Its just an idea. And honestly even if it was implemented with a perfect execution there would still be hiccups and issues. I guess it all boils down to with a huge user base. The percentages of dev,classy people,troll, and straight out dicks are going to go up and sometimes out of proportion. It sucks but its just how it is. All it takes is for us users to use the measures in place.
Use the thanks, report buttons and Google/Search **** before posting. And keep the nonsense post out of the dev section. If someone asks a question. Regardless of how many times its been asked. Give a polite answer and kindly direct them to previous post and about where they should post. If its a repeat offender "someone who never searches and constantly post the same ****" use the report button.
But that would be a perfect XDA environment. And we all know the world isn't perfect.
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Agreed.
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Devi0124 said:
You can't ask questions or say good job to the devs in the Dev section? I see people getting butt hurt to the point of insulting other members for asking questions. The rules clearly state that you shouldn't start a thread that does not pertain directly to development but i have yet to see where the rules say you can't comment or ask questions.
Sent from my SPH-D710 using XDA
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Read here please
"Thinking of posting a new thread???
Use the search button on the top bar between "New Posts" and "Quick Links"
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics that have threads already existing or [Q] questions in the development forums!
The thread will be locked with no notice and/or up to a temp BAN!!.
Thats the big difference from even a year ago... all the actual development work is being done offsite, either twitter (why I dont know), IRC, or the dev crews own sites. It used to be where the Devs would discuss their work in the Dev thread, and it was totally obvious that if you posted something that wasnt actually developing, you would feel like an ass. But becuase the work has shifted off-site, the dev threads look like ghost towns if everyone follows the rules, AND always errors on the side of not posting... so people not used to this new dynamic start posting 'wheres the update', 'what about adding this feature'..... as they would not be seeing any actual development going on. Just lock down the Dev threads, so theres no debate... if youre actually working on the rom or whatever, the OP/Mods can allow you to post in it... then all the troll minimods get get bent and if they talk **** in general they can get flagged and vacations. If you aren't listen in the OP as a developer working on the project, or maybe beta testing a release for the Devs, no posting! Simple. I think the days of XDA being only devs is long gone, as those devs would move on if they did not have a forum to interact with their userbase... as some have to places where people with bad attitudes get banned before people that god forbid have a question. I agree, do away with Q&A... its more on topic than most crap in general, that way theres a dev (downloads) section, and everything else. they nobody has to worry about 'wah, this thread is cluttered and I wanna vent on people, so im gonna talk **** THEN get the mods to clean it up'. The funny part is the drama is actually being created by those not taking part in these conversations, theyre too busy playing minimod to pay attention. 1 question in a dev thread, directly pertaining to that ROM and that ROM alone, and its answer, even if its and answer and 'search next time' is a lot less than that answer plus 5 different little pricks dictating what they think belongs where.
Your quotes of the rules only highlight the fact that they are vague and outdated, as very little actual development happens here anymore... sorry.
wase4711 said:
If any mod, including myself, continue to find new threads about topics [...] or [Q] questions in the development forums!
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this really can't get any more clear. he is clearly referring to new THREADS, not posts.