Develop Bugs

Touch Pro 2 Internal Hardware Discussion (Chainfire please read)

Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.

qazzi76 said:
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why has this been brough back to life? DaveShaw closed the last thread, can't you respect that and leave it for a bit?

No clearly I can't.
While the TP2 isn't that bad a device - if all else fails I will probably end up with one - There is an underlying issue here that needs to be discussed and addressed that isn't only applicable to the Touch Pro 2.

And further more I'm not offending anyone I'm encouraging discussion that needs to be encouraged.
I've been here since 2004 and been using these devices before 2004 and am seriously wondering what's happening with WM in the industry lately.
- WM7 promised the world but has yet to see the light of day.
- We still don't have properly implemented VGA recording in our devices
- Rich application experience is only available through 3rd party programs and pluggins when it should be available at the OS level.
- Why on earth do some programmers know how to manipulate the hardware at OS level better than Microsoft, the people that make the OS (Example Point UI)
Seriously what is going on here?
Have you seen the Palm Pre?
Have you seen the Iphone?
Have you seen Android Cupcake?
What do we have?
Microsoft has given us a half a hearted attempt at an OS refresh (6.5) and embarassingly all our rich app experiences are provided by third parties.
Why couldn't HTC release Rhodium level hardware with Android?

As for processor specs:
From the MSM7200A datasheet that I "absolutely don't have":
7200: 90 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
7200A: 65 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
Some more interesting changes in non-A vs A are that the A has 24bpp display support for EBI2, and the memory is clocked at 166mhz instead of 128mhz (aside from the obvious 528mhz (533 officially) addition) and also uses a different GPS core. I assume all the latter is also in the 7201A but I cannot verify that, so...
As to the repackaging thing, perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not feel like the TP is a repackaged TyTN II, nor do I really feel the TP2 is a repackaged TP. But, if you say the latter you should also say the former - the thread starter only did the latter. Even if for one you may feel instinctively that it isn't repackaged and for the other you do, it's either both or neither, from my viewpoint.
I agree there have been many improvements, but most of them were not in the 'bare' hardware. And that was the discussion point of the thread starter, who stated in one of his posts that we were not talking about software. Obviously, casing, screens, etc have improvements as well as the software.
Again, I love the TP2. The first time I played with one was love at first sight.
As for video, the 7200 series is more than capable - just not supported very well. With fully optimized drivers and software, video playback should be much better than it is right now. Its the old trick of unleashing a little bit more potential with every device release to get people to upgrade. Sound business model, but obviously us techs frown at it.
As for snapdragon, I agree it has got awesome capabilities, but there are some caveats (note that I already played with snapdragon devices and it felt really fast to me... much faster than TP2).
Caveat #1: How will it stack up versus the Tegra? I've also seen Tegra (test) devices in action up close (no touching, though, and it was bigger than my pocket) and it did seem extremely awesome.
Caveat #2: It's still Qualcomm. While HTC is partially to blame for the whole mess the past few years, so is Qualcomm. Both of these companies continuously let us down performance-wise. Will the old dogs learn new tricks? Will major corporations ever actually care about their customers? Will they ever deliver what they promise? We are talking about HTC and Qualcomm here, and due to past experience I wouldn't put the chances of that very high.
Of course, Microsoft also has a big role to play in optimizing WM. It's a dog. But it's improving... I do have high hopes for WM7.
Do I feel betrayed? I don't think that's the correct word, but yes, I am disappointed (even if I do love the TP2 ). I think over time things will get better though. WM being the slow dog that it is, with the latest hardware and some effort it should still be technically possible to top iPhone performance by a large margin.
I can easily understand your frustration though. I am myself heavily invested in WM (my livelyhood actually depends on it) so I am also frustrated. It can be much better!

Hi Chainfire,
Oh - I see... Got you.
So the A supports higher bit resolution displays and has faster memory!
Ok I stand corrected about the MSM7200 series processors.
Somehow I'm not surprised the hardware is capable of good Video - I just haven't experienced it.. yet.. - But I also put that down to poor colaboration (possibly deliberately) on MS, HTC and Qualcomms part)
I also have been wondering about the Tegra but I see it taking ages to come to market based on NVidia's PDA GPU efforts before which eventually materialised in Dells axim x51v (PDA) initially and then imates 6150(Phone) ages after anouncement.
Obviously this could change.
I agree the Tegra is a worthy force to be reckoned with if implemented correctly - I unfortunately have only seen working examples of the Tegra on Youtube but what I have seen has been very very impressive GUI wise.
The Snapdragon looks kinda crazy too with its 1.3ghz potential when its already flying at 1ghz on the TG01 and the whole netbook angle/implementation of snapdragon.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what WM7 has to offer although I imagine it's must be a little difficult for you at the mo with the whole Android and apple app store gaining ground and making their mark in industry.
Anyhow I wish you good luck with your WM based business projects/ventures.

Maybe tp2 use msm7201A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522460

That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Mine still not in...
EDIT: Checked FCC pics, that one indeed seems to have 7201A. Wonder if the EU version will also have this or have 7200A. We'll know soon enough I guess!

Chainfire said:
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UK version 7200A-528MHz, according the the About screen.

Hmm, that makes it likely the US versions will be MSM7201A and the rest of the world will get MSM7200A... Interesting!

out of interest im in uk and mine has the 7200A...

Is there any speculation or news on second-gen phones after the first batch?

So,
I'm waiting for the Dell Venue Pro to be released, but it keeps getting delayed...
I'm wondering if some manufactureres would be releasing new phones close to the release of the dvp, thuss, maybe there would be some better phones by then...?
Anyone read something interesting?

quinstar said:
So,
I'm waiting for the Dell Venue Pro to be released, but it keeps getting delayed...
I'm wondering if some manufactureres would be releasing new phones close to the release of the dvp, thuss, maybe there would be some better phones by then...?
Anyone read something interesting?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's truly an interesting question for one reason: MS will be doing updating and all phones are suppose to be similar hardware wise...to avoid fragmentation. I believe, with the exception of screen types and camera res, that every WP7 phone currently released, and likely the CDMA versions included, use the same processing hardware.
The reason this is interesting is because, how will MS handle hardware evolution. These WP7 phones certainly can't remain the same forever. Eventually there will be 1.5GHz CPUs and higher res screens. How will MS handle incorporating phones equipped with higher speed CPUs and higher res screens into WP7 filled with the current tech. The whole point of WP7 is keep things level across the board. A current 1GHz SnapDragon certainly would not be level with a 1.5 or 2GHz FlamingLizard dual core CPU.

MartyLK said:
That's truly an interesting question for one reason: MS will be doing updating and all phones are suppose to be similar hardware wise...to avoid fragmentation. I believe, with the exception of screen types and camera res, that every WP7 phone currently released, and likely the CDMA versions included, use the same processing hardware.
The reason this is interesting is because, how will MS handle hardware evolution. These WP7 phones certainly can't remain the same forever. Eventually there will be 1.5GHz CPUs and higher res screens. How will MS handle incorporating phones equipped with higher speed CPUs and higher res screens into WP7 filled with the current tech. The whole point of WP7 is keep things level across the board. A current 1GHz SnapDragon certainly would not be level with a 1.5 or 2GHz FlamingDragon dual core CPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Windows Phone 8 in a year?

It'll be like games consoles, a new one every 5 years or so. After all, with the OS being as fast as it is on 1GHz processors, nobody cares about 1.5GHz ones. Except geeks.

As a geek, I can say that I would insta-buy a FlamingLizard device. That name is just pure awesome.
Seriously though, certain hardware was specified because MS is providing the correct drivers to use that hardware correctly (glowers @ HTC). When new stuff hits, MS will pick a new item they like, make drivers for it, and tell OEM's what to use, just like they've done with the current line. MS has way too much invested in WP7 to let it get relegated to second-rate hardware. Even if Metro doesn't ask for a huge level of processing power, MS is heavily pushing live integration, and I believe that they will be all over stuffing powerful processors into phones in order to sell them as gaming platforms.

MS could go apples way.
Every year in november for example, ms could allow to use higher hardware.
Like: iphone 2g, 3g, 3gs, 4
And ms give us a wp7 version for each generation of wp7 phones

i think the best way for MS to give the hardware manufacturers more capabilities would be to set up benchmarking for all the different components. have the current components as the benchmark for example, and if they want to change say the CPU/GPU, it has to outperform the current benchmark. this way, it becomes a lot more like Android in the manufacturers can make the devices the way they'd like using the parts they'd like.
the only issue is, MS would need to be involved in creating every driver for every different component. i think at present it's quite restricted down to particular components so that you get a good boot up time and running experience, because there isn't redundant/generic drivers on the phone.

As far as I know the requirements aren't as specific as what people are saying, but more "Minimum Requirements"
From what I can remember it's something along the lines of
AT LEAST a 1ghz Processor
AT LEAST a 3.5" Screen
AT LEAST 8Gb Storage
etc etc.
So new devices can come out with faster processors, they wont though... Manufacturers will milk the cheapest hardware for as long as they can. I would expect a rehash of requirements each year.
The whole point of it all isn't really to keep things level, it's to make sure that underpowered devices aren't released that run the OS like crap (Eg Wildfire, Tattoo) and also so that devices aren't released running a version of the OS that's over a year old (Xperia X10)

yeah thats what I was wondering. Those were the minimum requirements not specific reqs as people assume. The hardware manufacturers just stuck to those to save costs. I'm sure if MS did not have these then they would have used even lower end crap, thus destroying any chance WP7 has of attaining success.

FL5 said:
As a geek, I can say that I would insta-buy a FlamingLizard device. That name is just pure awesome.
Seriously though, certain hardware was specified because MS is providing the correct drivers to use that hardware correctly (glowers @ HTC). When new stuff hits, MS will pick a new item they like, make drivers for it, and tell OEM's what to use, just like they've done with the current line. MS has way too much invested in WP7 to let it get relegated to second-rate hardware. Even if Metro doesn't ask for a huge level of processing power, MS is heavily pushing live integration, and I believe that they will be all over stuffing powerful processors into phones in order to sell them as gaming platforms.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 for the flaminglizard dual core cpu. or even blazedmonkey dual core cpu. or bullsballz dual core cpu. so long as it's dual core, i'll buy it. hell, i might even buy it if it ran windows, then dump a android rom on it and have a flaming-dog-ballz rooted/ unlocked dual core cpu smash phone.
HA

ohgood said:
+1 for the flaminglizard dual core cpu. or even blazedmonkey dual core cpu. or bullsballz dual core cpu. so long as it's dual core, i'll buy it. hell, i might even buy it if it ran windows, then dump a android rom on it and have a flaming-dog-ballz rooted/ unlocked dual core cpu smash phone.
HA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LMAO...funny stuff!

cbebop7 said:
yeah thats what I was wondering. Those were the minimum requirements not specific reqs as people assume. The hardware manufacturers just stuck to those to save costs. I'm sure if MS did not have these then they would have used even lower end crap, thus destroying any chance WP7 has of attaining success.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think what certainly would have happened, at least with HTC is they would have 1 premier device, probably the HD7 in it's current iteration. The rest of the devices would then go from Bad to Absolute ****. The Trophy or Mozart would probably have a smaller screen and a severely slow processor by today's standards.
What will happen eventually is someone will realise that the majority of the handsets are the same and release something with better specs than the current bunch in an attempt to stand out from the crowd. My guess is it will be LG

Here's my take on it.
First half of 2011:
* Chassis 2 handsets start appearing, being technically the same as launch devices.
Come November 2011:
* WP8 devices come consisting of second or third gen snapdragons and/or introduce another SoC like Hummingbird or OMAP.
* Chassis 3 handsets also start appearing (tablets or gaming style deisgn like PSPhone maybe?)
My wishes:
* Resolution bump for tablets and smartphones
* Hero phone introduced by Microsoft (much like the Nexus series), Zune/xbox phone anyone?
edit: looks like WP8 will actually be coming out end of 2012 http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-7-mango-rumors

WP7 Smoother than Dual Core Tegra2 Android Device...Proof

Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.

I don't understand how comparing propably really crappy and badly coded Motorola gallery to WP7 standard gallery proves anything.
I.e. pinch to zoom was already smooth on my G1 running stock 2.2.1 and stock 3D gallery. It's not Android's fault that Motorola can't code fluid zooming into such powerful device.
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.

krjcook said:
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dual core CPU isn't going to make graphics any faster. It doesn't on desktop and it won't on mobile devices either. Dual CPU has benefits when multi-tasking and it also allows the GUI to run at its optimum speed while running other apps. If apps are optimized for dual-cores, they too will run more efficiently.
But simply having two CPUs doesn't mean everything is two-times faster. This video does prove that WP7 has better GUI coding.
raven_raven said:
But it points to another problem. While hardware is more and more capable of doing amazing things, software just can't keep up. It was only half year ago when Google optimized Android to Snapdragon (famous 400% improvement in linpack on Nexus One) and OMG now we have dual-core devices. IMO Android can't utilize such power yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not a valid point. iPhones have been smooth and responsive since day one with lesser capapble hardware than the competition. Plain and simple, Android suffers from the same inefficient GUI programming that plagued Windows Mobile. Even if you made the Android device's CPU 4 or 8 times faster, it still wouldn't beat WP7 or iPhone smoothness and responsiveness.

I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.

zukа said:
I don't understand anything about hardware, tech specs or whatever. I am, in essence, a noob. But what's demonstrated in this video is the exact thing that drove me to WP7.
Coming from an HTC Legend and Desire, the most frustrating thing for me about the experience was how everything was a little bit jerky, how most of the functions lagged behind my finger input. Pinch to zoom and intuitive scrolling weren't that handy because they couldn't keep pace with me, weren't smooth and slowed everything down. Same thing on my friend's Nexus One and Nexus S. If things aren't smooth and quick on those devices, I'm not sure where Android's perfect implementation is.
That's not something that happens (to my knowledge) on any WP7 device. Before I get flamed, I'm not having a go at Android, it's just something I really love about WP7 - that the user interface reacts instantaneously. On a touch device, that's the most important thing for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the same thing that frustrated me about Windows Mobile and keeps me from going Android. I'm impressed by iPhone and WP7 speed and responsiveness. That is a great feature for any device to have.

I saw this video this morning and was like..."really"?

the gallery on my gingerbread ROM on my HD2 runs more fluidly than both the phones in that video. I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans. That's the thing with Android, there are so many different combinations of hardware, software, and skin versions that you run the risk of getting a device not fully optimized to utilize its hardware, but you also get choice and freedom for more options.
The iPhone 4 has a lower clock speed than any WP7 device and it runs much more smoothly and is more responsive in every aspect than any WP7 phone, by your logic then, you should own iPhone 4s, especially since you can get a CDMA in less than a month.
I'd take a tegra2 android device over a WP7 device any day of the week (as long as it wasn't a motorola), although I'm happy with having a WP7 and an Android phone so I can either roll with big ass tiles or more options when I need them.

Oh wow a finger race. If that's how you are supposed to go thru your gallery wp7 is definitely a winner.
Sent from my Nero powered Vibrant

orangekid said:
I wouldn't buy a motorola phone if it only cost 3 magic beans.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Off topic:
Where do you get these magic beans from?!?!?!! I've been searching for milleniums!

WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery

@up You seem to understand what's going on, but it's sad how many muppets after seeing this video run around and scream: "OMG WP7 is SO BETTER THAN ANDROID" .
I think I'll make a video response to OP's video showing my Android gallery running as smooth as it can be.

krjcook said:
Came across this video showing how responsive, smooth, and quick WP7 is compared to Android. How does the specs compare?
<b>
Samsung Focus
1GHz Processor
512MB Ramvs​Moto Atrix​</b>
Dual Core Nvidia Tegra 2
1GB Ram
​
Even with the significant spec boost and advantage, Android somehow manages to falter to WP7. This is what I mean when I say you shouldn't compare specs between WP7 and Android. Android demands a lot more than WP7 to scathe WP7 responsiveness. Don't forget WP7 has only been available for a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.

blanket said:
WM's problems IMO, were because the OS was too advanced for the hardware, and up until the snapdragon, was generally slow
now, we have hardware that is too advanced for the software
makes me wonder how fast does technology really update itself
but yeah, having dual core is pointless now. it's like having a ferrari engine but having no suitable chasis to put it in. to realise benefits of multi-cored processors, the software must be multithreaded (terminology?) or optimized enough to make use of the extra cpu available. or else, it will just be there leeching off the battery
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most apps are programmed multi-threaded, it is not the point, the OS should be programmed to take an advantage of multiple cores (process scheduler, etc.).

Stupidity amuses me. What exactly is faster? Two completely different apps coded for different things?
The fact that articles are going up for this is more amazing. Ignorance is bliss.
Try loading the exact same app and doing a test.

MartyLK said:
I have an HD7 and an HD2 running DesireHD Android. My DesireHD2 is as smooth as my HD7. Android can be as smooth as WP7, my devices are proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have your pinion, I have proof.

MartyLK said:
You have your pinion, I have proof.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? I think it's time I made another video

domineus said:
I call bs
You are not the only one running dhd on hd2 and I can say
if you think the android on hd2 experience is nearly as smooth as the hd7, you are so far off base its not even funny.
Not even on a fresh boot of nand/sd will dhd be on equal level on the hd2 because of the ram limitation. And that is fact
And yes I can provide 10 million vids to compare/contrast both but there is no way in hades htc sense designed for a 768 mb ram is going to run equally well on a 576 mb ram. That's just crap
as for the topic, the key is optimization. Android is not optimized for dual core. so while android may have dual core processors, what's the point there is no optimization. At all. and there won't be for a bit of time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.

lqaddict said:
Please provide the source for your rant on optimization.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
android is not gpu accelerated. Who needs a source? it is not gpu optimized like ios or win phone
god even a google (a simple one) yields that
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=android+gpu+accelerated+OS?

I love how the Android fanboys crawled out of their holes like cockroaches to defend this. You'd almost think it was a personal insult...lol

Why Windows Phone 7 doesn't desperately need more powerful devices this year

I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...

Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.

As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry

I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...

I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/

The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS

I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.

They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.

Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.

Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.

fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.

N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?

Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express

ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.

Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.

N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
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I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?

vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.

vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
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Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.

It's not the size of the hardware, it's how you use it.

I've seen this argument now 100 times over that you should not consider WP7 or have anything to do with WP7 due entirely to the fact that the hardware is 'last-gen.' Well, I'm standing in the store with my DVP along-side an Atrix and I've been doing some similar and even the same apps and games between the two and the DVP seems to be doing much, much, better. Of course the UI on the DVP is 1000 times smoother regardless of hardware but that's a given due to the lack of a hardware accelerated UI on android. The iphone is smoother in some of the apps due to microsoft's stupid 30 fps... thing but the OS on the DVP is even smoother than the iphone. I have to give the iphone credit though due to it's underclocked nature it's barely beaten by WP7 in terms of UI and smokes WP7 in terms of apps. If the UI wasn't so ugly and the hardware was a little less limited it would be the only valid choice in my opinion. So yeah, just the fact that there are dual-core processors on some android devices doesn't mean anything if it can't properly utilize them. I guess that was the whole point I was trying to make.

My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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You mad bro?
If anything, you should've talked about the fact that it has nothing to do with dual-cores in general but due to the fact that the Atrix is a mass of poor coding.
You could've also stated that dual cores generally make the phone use less power and be more efficient leading to better battery life.
Instead, I have to ask, what the hell can a RAZR do faster?

vetvito said:
My Motorola Razr is 1000 times faster than your Dell. Your point?
Hardware acceleration is there, its been there for a while. Do some research. You would see the devices wouldn't be useable without it.
Your do know dual cores, do a lot more than make things faster, don't you?
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Hardware acceleration is there, however the UI is not GPU accelerated which is why android is generally laggy. I've done my research. I'm aware of what dual-cores do but it's supposed to make it faster as a big part and hey... it's not much faster due to the UI itself. I can't even imagine how powerful an iDevice or a WP7 device would be with that under the hood but the only thing that's been selling android for awhile is that their hardware is bigger and badder.

No, I was attempting a joke. Failed huh?
I could've mentioned a lot of stuff.

yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.

z33dev33l said:
Really think they'd go up to a 4 inch screen... hey, it may be a worthwhile phone then... The size of the processor is entirely null on android though, the UI isnt going to speed up because the coding for android in general just isn't that hot. WP7 is still the smoothest UI out there on a "last-gen" snapdragon. I would like to see a front facing camera considering there were rumors of windows video chat back in January but really the hardware despite being old utilizes the hardware better than android utilizes it's most up-to-date hardware. There will still be no GPU acceleration unless the OEM codes it in themselves on a device to device basis and considering that the OEMs just want to slam device after device to sell as many different devices as possible that's highly unlikely.
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Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.

orangekid said:
Depends which phone, the moto crap UI sucks, I hate touchwiz, but AOSP is smooth and so is stock sense, I'd put up my CM7 ADW launcher or my Desire ROM against WP7 any day of the week and It's just as smooth.
Android is different in that the manufs have to code their own framework except the Nexus series so it can be hit or miss, WP7 is all MS so yeah you know what you're going to get on any phone, but if you get an Atrix and hate it, you can return it and get an Incite and get a whole new awesome experience with Android on actual 4G.
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Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.

z33dev33l said:
Eh, I'm sorry, I've tried the latest devices T-mobile had to offer up to the MT4g and regardless of CM or whatever it was still slow in comparison to WP7 and I feel that won't be resolved until the OEMs decide to make the UI GPU accelerated. I still have a G2 and with the latest and greatest roms it still can't compare, nor can my moms MT4g with CM7 on it.
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matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.

orangekid said:
matter of opinion then, I compared an MT4G and an HD7 side-by-side and the MSM chip in the MT4G makes a big difference, it was much smoother and lightning fast, so it's just subjective on that point.
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To be perfectly honest I haven't been particularly impressed with HTC's WP7 devices... they're slow compared to the other OEMs and choppy... I hate using the HD7 after using the DVP for a few hours. Internally they're pretty much the same and I don't know what the difference is but HTC's general lack of quality shows.

WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.

ErikWithNoC said:
WP7's smoothness is mainly in the default applications and system software. If you test a lot of apps on WP7 you see that, that smoothness is not truly apparent in most 3rd party apps which is unfortunate.
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Certainly not in the iphone ports but in a number of the apps built exclusively for WP7it's apparent. I just wish they'd stop being a "We have that too" group instead of innovating.

orangekid said:
yeah moto basically can't code for ****. Let's compare Apple to Apple.
The iPad 2 runs an A5 dual-core processor whereas the iPad runs an A4 single core, both good processors,
but you can see improvement in speed, fluidity, and general handling of the A5 over the A4 and dual-cores make it possible for higher resolution output (the Evo 3D will output 1080p via HDMI) as well video decoding and things that actually utilize it. The motocrap UI sucks no matter which device is using it I don't care if they put a 6-core i7 in there.
The thing is that WP7 is behind with no front facing camera on any device, and last gen snapdragons. It's just a fact. The iPhone 5 supposedly has the same dual-core A5 with a 4" screen and will SMOKE any WP7 device for at least a year or more.
don't use the worst example to try to compare.
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Click to collapse
way to compare last year's phones to those coming out later this year (rumor is a fall release).
hell, the DS7 has a dualcore processor, does that make it a top tablet?

^ for the price it does. Mine is super fast and smooth.

Well, there aren't many tablets out right now, but I wouldn't say it's tops.
It has a low res screen which really helps it perform better, compared to other tablets and the only other tablet that was out at the time (Galaxy Tab, I'm speaking Google-endorsed tablets) had phone specs with a large screen...
WP7 would have benefitted from using a better SoC at launch because phones are sold mostly on 2 year contracts and, well, a year after release there will be tons of polished Dual Core phones. Also, since all WP7 devices are supposed to get updates future proofing them at least somewhat would have been good for the platform as a whole, and customers obviously.
It will be interesting to see how many updates these launch phones recieve after Mango, IMO.

I think dual core is not a big deal. A well managed single core processor is more than enough for a phone... unless you want to run two processor intensive apps. But if you think about it, do you ever run such apps simultaneously? All modern phone OS put an app in hibernation when you switch to some other processor intensive app.
There have been a few different points or comparisons made in this thread. Here are my 2 cents on it.
iPad2 performs so much better than iPad... the majority of the improvement comes from a very good GPU. Apple is very good at using the GPU and thus the difference is obvious. Nevertheless, tablets are very likely to be used to do processor intensive tasks simultaneously. Thus dual core can be utilized to its potential.
The barrage of android phones with dual core.... google's flagship device, Nexus S is single core. Google is going to stay with it for some time. I have been using Nexus One for some time now and I have not come across any instance where I was bogged down because I was running too many simultaneous apps. Sometimes a processor intensive app alone can slow me down, but that is due to android not being able to use my GPU to its full extent.
Thus, I agree with OP. The experience is what matters. Phone is not a PC where comparison can be made by merely comparing the hardware specifications. I think chassis 1 of Windows Phone 7 will get updates for at least 2 more years. Nevertheless, we should be seeing dual core windows phone 7 in early 2012.

Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
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I'm quite aware of this however speed is not entirely out of the equation. It's not like it's doing any huge favors still as smartphone batteries barely sustain the smartphone and it will likely be that way til we get those new solar-recharging things on the screen.

ryude said:
Dual core is not about speed, it's about efficiency. You clearly weren't in the PC evolution era when we went from single core to dual core. Single core was still beating dual core in every benchmark, but the dual core was cooler/used less power/required fewer fans/apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt/etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you. Dual core brings better power management. I did not sleep through the PC evolution. However, the discussion in these thread repeatedly pointed out advantage of speed. I begged to differ and laid out my arguments.
Nevertheless, I reiterate that unless you have two processor intensive activities running in parallel, you will not see any advantage (including power consumption) of multiple cores. My point is that you hardly do that on a phone.
PS: "apps that were "not responding" did not bring your entire system to a halt" has nothing to do with multiple cores. It's sand-boxing. Only Unix based systems can do that effectively. Windows has been getting better but the kernel does not support all the features.