Develop Bugs

Won't enter recovery and can't root

Hi, really need help because this phone is making me crazy.
Tried everything I know from reading here but it wasn't enough to fix this
I have a desire that I can't root. When entering unrevoked it will stay in "waiting for reboot" and the phone won't do anything (with background with htc logo)
With down+power if I click the recover, it just reboots and hangs. I have to take the battery to restart.
This is what I've tried so far:
-Created goldcard
- Tried a new rru.exe and PB99IMG.zip updates on the card
He does the updates but the problem is the same
- Tried downgrade using this guide: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=768256
It's all the same, no luck rooting and recovery hangs.
This is what I have now:
From phone:
Android
2.2
32.49.00.32U_5.11.05.27
2.6.32.15-gf5a401c....
2.29.405.5
From down+power
BRAVO PVT1 SHIP S-ON
HBOOT-0.93.0001
RADIO-5.11.05.27
Aug 10 2010,17:52:10
I never tried shell commands because I don't know what to do.
Any help please.

Is the phone working? I mean only Recovery hangs?
Because I have a desire with exact same specifications and rooted it with unrEVOked without any problems.
Are you installed the HBOOT drivers correctly?
Tried an RUU and no luck?
You must be doing something wrong.

Mine was acting like that too. I.did the USB drivers and all that but jnrevoked wasn't finishing. I kept trying like 8 times until unrevoked did the whole thing. Some times it takes a couple of tries
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk

nagypapi said:
Is the phone working? I mean only Recovery hangs?
Because I have a desire with exact same specifications and rooted it with unrEVOked without any problems.
Are you installed the hboot drivers correctly?
Tried an RUU and no luck?
You must be doing something wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had before a wildfire that I rooted without a problem.
Anyway I uninstalled everything I had from wildfire and installed everything again (including hboot drivers) but still the same problem

top25 said:
I had before a wildfire that I rooted without a problem.
Anyway I uninstalled everything I had from wildfire and installed everything again (including hboot drivers) but still the same problem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange.
Which unrevoked are you using? Try 3.21. It worked for me.

ajftl said:
Mine was acting like that too. I.did the USB drivers and all that but jnrevoked wasn't finishing. I kept trying like 8 times until unrevoked did the whole thing. Some times it takes a couple of tries
Sent from my Nexus S using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe it or not, this is a progress
After a couple of reboots it entered but on the final step it says:
(something like this) "it was a root"
And right after:
Internal Error: Failed to unlock NAND flash"
Tried with hboot 0.93 and with 0.83, both gave the same error.
Uninstalled drivers, everything. Then installed htc sync, uninstalled. Installed again the hboot usb drivers, all the same.
If I click to go to recovery it reboots.

[Q] Can't Root HTC Desire

Hello everyone,
I would need expert help here... 3 months ago I have tried to root my HTC Desire that was running (it still is) 2.2 I have tried to use the one-click flash unrevoked, I enabled USB debugging, I had plugged it in my Mac and I tried to flash it. The computer starts the process, at one point it says restarting bootloader, but my phone just stayed off. When I powered it on manually, it just worked, but it wasn't flashed. I used for the next 3 days, turning it on and off every night and it would work, until it just turned on, went passed the pin code check and a message would pop up for every app saying it is not responding...
I got a friend to fix it. 2 weeks after that, without doing anything to it, it just did not start and gave me the same problem.... I had to send it in for repair, HTC opened my phone replaced everything at the exception of the case. Although, I want to root it, I am afraid to break my phone again... Any suggestions ?

Try this thread. Worked for me.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=814381
Although I don't use a Mac, it seems much simpler to root.
Oh, I forgot, I used this method on my original desire (previous was stolen)
http://www.droid-den.com/phone-guides/phone-guide-how-to-root-the-htc-desire
Either way works, just make sure you have a GOLD CARD

Did you install the hboot drivers?

unrevoked is normally working fine.
there are 3 things you need to pay attention on it.
1. uninstall HTC Sync completly
2. install HBoot drivers
3. activate USB-Debugging
with this 3 points it should work fine

After serveral failed attempts to use unrevoked on my 2.2, i came across the thread below, the followed the 2.2 -> 2.1 donwgrade guide and then unrevoked worked first time once i was on 2.1
Try the guide in this thread; http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=696189

[Q] Stuck in recovery boot loop HTC Desire GSM ~ ASSISTANCE APPRECIATED!!

Severe panic!!
I rooted my Desire which was running 2.2 Froyo on the O2 UK network using unrevoked and it worked fine without any issues. Custom recovery by ClockworkMod.
The next day I then decided i needed to turn S-off so found a guide and tried installing unrevoked forever from a zip on the root of the SD and i got 'installation aborted error 42'. Tried again the next day but before i got started i decided to give myself re-assurance that i wouldnt lose anything on the device so i entered recovery and chose restore.
Big mistake! My handset then rebooted and got to the O2 splash screen. It wont move from there. Pulled battery out and tried again. Same. I assume i havent bricked the device and it is just stuck in a boot loop?
Since then i have removed all my user data from the SD card and 'cleared storage'. Tried installing an miui rom and again 'installation aborted'.
Can anyone clarify why this is happening and point me in the right direction?
I am a noob and would appreciate any help on this.

TannyBhoy said:
Severe panic!!
I rooted my Desire which was running 2.2 Froyo on the O2 UK network using unrevoked and it worked fine without any issues. Custom recovery by ClockworkMod.
The next day I then decided i needed to turn S-off so found a guide and tried installing unrevoked forever from a zip on the root of the SD and i got 'installation aborted error 42'. Tried again the next day but before i got started i decided to give myself re-assurance that i wouldnt lose anything on the device so i entered recovery and chose restore.
Big mistake! My handset then rebooted and got to the O2 splash screen. It wont move from there. Pulled battery out and tried again. Same. I assume i havent bricked the device and it is just stuck in a boot loop?
Since then i have removed all my user data from the SD card and 'cleared storage'. Tried installing an miui rom and again 'installation aborted'.
Can anyone clarify why this is happening and point me in the right direction?
I am a noob and would appreciate any help on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try to bring you phone to stock.
Download RUU .
Turn your phone on in fastboot (hold back button and press power - when your phone is off).
You have to have HTC Sync installed.
Run the exe file.
After that repeat the rooting and s-off-ing procedure.

Can the RUU be flashed in clockwork mod recovery or does it have to go through HTC Sync?
If it cannot be flashed in Clockwork Mod, I presume he has to
Connect phone via USB to PC,
boot into Fastboot as you mentioned
run HTC Sync
and then run the Ruu.exe file (does HTC Sync recognise this filetype and then do it's thing?)
And that's it? (Just that it seems too simple!)

OriginalThinking said:
Can the RUU be flashed in clockwork mod recovery or does it have to go through HTC Sync?
If it cannot be flashed in Clockwork Mod, I presume he has to
Connect phone via USB to PC,
boot into Fastboot as you mentioned
run HTC Sync
and then run the Ruu.exe file (does HTC Sync recognise this filetype and then do it's thing?)
And that's it? (Just that it seems too simple!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might need a goldcard. Try without one for now.

Right I'll let him know to give that a go. If it doesn't work I might pick your brains around the goldcard option.
Massive thanks so far for your advice!

Dude thanks for that. Im going to give that a bash and let you know how i get on!
Much appreciated!

Haven't tried this but it's worth giving it a shot. http://www.addictivetips.com/mobile...gold-card-for-htc-desire-without-hex-editing/
Or this: http://www.nazriawang.com/2010/04/how-to-create-goldcard-with-ubuntu.html

TannyBhoy said:
The next day I then decided i needed to turn S-off so found a guide and tried installing unrevoked forever from a zip on the root of the SD and i got 'installation aborted error 42'. Tried again the next day but before i got started i decided to give myself re-assurance that i wouldnt lose anything on the device so i entered recovery and chose restore.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello. I think you wanted to say you chose back-up, otherwise you couldn't have chosen the restore option since you don't have any restore points.
So if you hit back-up and your phone stuck in the boot loop it is normal. This is a problem because of the root and the fact that making a nandroid back-up will mess something in the NAND. But restoring the back-up you just made should resolve all the problems. I had the same issue and by only restoring the back-up I've just made got me working back, and still had the ROOT.
I don't think you need to run a RUU just for this.

UsManyDead said:
Hello. I think you wanted to say you chose back-up, otherwise you couldn't have chosen the restore option since you don't have any restore points.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should have made clearer sorry. After i rooted successfully i entered recovery and hit backup option and it told me it had created a backup successfully. I had been using the phone as normal for another day before deciding to s-off and at that point i thought to 'test' my backup to make sure it had done it so i chose restore thinking anything i have downloaded on the phone since the back up will disappear and was expecting the restore to bring my phone back to the settings i had the previous day but the restore failed and thats when it got stuck in the boot loop.

Mine did the same thing except, instead of trying to s-off it just decided at one point that it felt like it, literally, I wasnt even using it at the time it was just charging. I did downloaded the stock ruu, it was linked earlier. Put it in fastboot, run the ruu and boom, however i did it on my goldcard, so make one if it doesnt work without it. Good luck.

paul.c said:
Try to bring you phone to stock.
Turn your phone on in fastboot (hold back button and press power - when your phone is off).
You have to have HTC Sync installed.
Run the exe file.
After that repeat the rooting and s-off-ing procedure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BACK IN BUSINESS!! Dude you are the man! The RUU didnt install as it was a different boot version so from the site you suggested i used the Froyo version and its now working! Many thanks.
P.s. What's the easiest way to s-off? Also whats the correct way to create a complete back up restore point and then actually restore to that point without getting to this stage again?

paul.c said:
Try to bring you phone to stock.
Turn your phone on in fastboot (hold back button and press power - when your phone is off).
You have to have HTC Sync installed.
Run the exe file.
After that repeat the rooting and s-off-ing procedure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
BACK IN BUSINESS!! Dude you are the man! The RUU didnt install as it was a different boot version so from the site you suggested i used the Froyo version and its now working! Many thanks.
P.s. What's the easiest way to s-off? Also whats the correct way to create a complete back up restore point and then actually restore to that point without getting to this stage again?

TannyBhoy said:
BACK IN BUSINESS!! Dude you are the man! The RUU didnt install as it was a different boot version so from the site you suggested i used the Froyo version and its now working! Many thanks.
P.s. What's the easiest way to s-off? Also whats the correct way to create a complete back up restore point and then actually restore to that point without getting to this stage again?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Easiest way to s-off is alpharev:
http://alpharev.nl

***NEW ISSUE***
Since i have my phone back to it's original state and have lost root access. The idea is to root again via Unrevoked, which requires me to update the Android 1.0 driver (in device manager under other devices) to the Android Bootloader Interface. However, DM now does not say 'other devices - Android 1.0' and instead it says 'Android Devices - MY HTC'. So i decided to completely uninstall HTC Sync and all it's drivers and then rebooted PC, reinstalled SYNC and then uninstalled again but this time leaving the drivers in. Rebooted again and repeated the process but it still recognises the device as 'MY HTC' instead of 'Android 1.0'.
Could it be that this is fine, it's just the new way since i am using the updated version of HTC sync now? Or is this going to cause an issue? I am now playing it a lot safer to avoid anymore issues and quite happy to try something you may suggest...

TannyBhoy said:
***NEW ISSUE***
Since i have my phone back to it's original state and have lost root access. The idea is to root again via Unrevoked, which requires me to update the Android 1.0 driver (in device manager under other devices) to the Android Bootloader Interface. However, DM now does not say 'other devices - Android 1.0' and instead it says 'Android Devices - MY HTC'. So i decided to completely uninstall HTC Sync and all it's drivers and then rebooted PC, reinstalled SYNC and then uninstalled again but this time leaving the drivers in. Rebooted again and repeated the process but it still recognises the device as 'MY HTC' instead of 'Android 1.0'.
Could it be that this is fine, it's just the new way since i am using the updated version of HTC sync now? Or is this going to cause an issue? I am now playing it a lot safer to avoid anymore issues and quite happy to try something you may suggest...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here. But everything is working fine.
So put phone in usb debug mode and "only charge" mode, start abd, connect phone via usb to pc and type
Code:
adb devices
. If your desire's serial number is shown, everything is fine.

MatDrOiD said:
Same here. But everything is working fine.
So put phone in usb debug mode and "only charge" mode, start abd, connect phone via usb to pc and type
Code:
adb devices
. If your desire's serial number is shown, everything is fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey man thanks for the advice. If yours is working fine, ive no reason not to try it!
As i am a noob, can you clarify "start abd" ??
Also, type code "adb devices", where to type?

TannyBhoy said:
Hey man thanks for the advice. If yours is working fine, ive no reason not to try it!
As i am a noob, can you clarify "start abd" ??
Also, type code "adb devices", where to type?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To start adb issue: "adb start-server" command without the quotes
To stop it: "adb kill-server"
Here is the complete list: http://developer.android.com/guide/developing/tools/adb.html

TannyBhoy said:
***NEW ISSUE***
Since i have my phone back to it's original state and have lost root access. The idea is to root again via Unrevoked, which requires me to update the Android 1.0 driver (in device manager under other devices) to the Android Bootloader Interface. However, DM now does not say 'other devices - Android 1.0' and instead it says 'Android Devices - MY HTC'. So i decided to completely uninstall HTC Sync and all it's drivers and then rebooted PC, reinstalled SYNC and then uninstalled again but this time leaving the drivers in. Rebooted again and repeated the process but it still recognises the device as 'MY HTC' instead of 'Android 1.0'.
Could it be that this is fine, it's just the new way since i am using the updated version of HTC sync now? Or is this going to cause an issue? I am now playing it a lot safer to avoid anymore issues and quite happy to try something you may suggest...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the suggestions surrounding ADB but i guess im too much of a noob for that part, it seems massively complicated, im sure it doesnt to you guys. Isnt there an easier way? Or considering my above quote, can i just assume that its all working fine and go ahead with the root or should it really need to have 'Android 1.0' in device manager?
Im pretty certain this all happened becuase the first time i rooted i had followed instructions and uninstalled HTC Sync (not the drivers) which had been on my system since i got the phone lat year. Since i had to reinstall to flash the RUU im certain its an updated version of HTC Sync thats causing this issue. But is it really an issue?

TannyBhoy said:
Hey man thanks for the advice. If yours is working fine, ive no reason not to try it!
As i am a noob, can you clarify "start abd" ??
Also, type code "adb devices", where to type?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here you have a nice guide about adb:
http://androidforums.com/desire-all...fastboot-windows-updated-1st-june-2011-a.html
This should answer all your questions.

[Q] Unsuccessful Root of Desire HD. Please Help, Newbie Here.

Hello everyone, first of all I am a total newbie not just to rooting but also today was my first time ever using linux so please bear with me. Having said that, I have done my best to learn and understand the linux commands in the effin manual and followed all instructions as best as I could though I couldn't understand them well enough which is why I am here.
I am using Ubuntu 11.04 64 bit live cd but managed to install the i32-libs as stated in the effin manual. This is the only version of Ubuntu I could get from my friends as I have very slow internet connection and cannot download the new version or just the 32 bit one.
Anyway, on to the problem at hand.
I first ran the aahk, going through all the steps in the effin manual. My phone was originally on 2.3.5 and Sense 3 so I had to downgrade and the aahk downloaded the necessary rom(?) or RUU (?) to do this.
Once that was done, aahk carried on until the step where my phone rebooted.
This was where things started going wrong for me.
When the phone rebooted into 2.3.3 and started the wizard to set up my phone, I went through all that.
If I recall, at this point the aahk screen was up to “Once the downgrade is successful, press a key to return to the menu.... Otherwise, cut and paste the output to the screen into a text file for evaluation... then press a key. Press any key to continue...”
However, the step before that, “The phone will now reboot into HBOOT. If everything is okay, the phone will prompt you to continue by pressing VOLUME UP. It will reboot, flashing twice.”
PUSH POWER WHEN THIS STEP COMPLETES
I don't recall this happening for me or maybe it did but I did not notice. I did not press VOLUME UP nor see the flashing twice but surely it happened? Otherwise I would have been able to reboot into the phone environment correct? My head is spinning now...
Okay, this is where I may have gotten ahead of myself when reading the effin manual. You have to understand, I was just brimming with joy “thinking” I had successfully rooted my first ever and one and only smartphone.
I started looking for BusyBox or Superuser but couldn't find anything.
Not knowing what else to do, I rebooted the phone MANUALLY (hold power button and reset).
Then everything started going wrong.
Please don't get mad. I did not realise the aahk had to reboot several times. I thought once and that was it. I just found that out now.
However, between that time and when I found this out I believe I caused all sorts of damage.
When the phone rebooted, it got stuck on the white screen with HTC logo and aahk was no longer working.
The wrong things I did were to to go into HBOOT and RECOVERY and WIPE EVERYTHING (DATA, CACHE, DAVLIK, EVERYTHING) *SORRY!*
And so here I am, hoping someone can help me.
After searching around the forums some similarities I had with other users in the past was that the phone is still showing S-ON and because of what I had done, aahk did not get to work properly so my phone has no ROM and no RECOVERY.
And I also JUST realised I made things worse by deleting USB debugging when I WIPED everything!.
Please help.... (_ _”)

I can help you out. Can you still go in Hboot?
Sent from my Desire HD using XDA

dnplee said:
Hello everyone, first of all I am a total newbie not just to rooting but also today was my first time ever using linux so please bear with me. Having said that, I have done my best to learn and understand the linux commands in the effin manual and followed all instructions as best as I could though I couldn't understand them well enough which is why I am here.
I am using Ubuntu 11.04 64 bit live cd but managed to install the i32-libs as stated in the effin manual. This is the only version of Ubuntu I could get from my friends as I have very slow internet connection and cannot download the new version or just the 32 bit one.
Anyway, on to the problem at hand.
I first ran the aahk, going through all the steps in the effin manual. My phone was originally on 2.3.5 and Sense 3 so I had to downgrade and the aahk downloaded the necessary rom(?) or RUU (?) to do this.
Once that was done, aahk carried on until the step where my phone rebooted.
This was where things started going wrong for me.
When the phone rebooted into 2.3.3 and started the wizard to set up my phone, I went through all that.
If I recall, at this point the aahk screen was up to “Once the downgrade is successful, press a key to return to the menu.... Otherwise, cut and paste the output to the screen into a text file for evaluation... then press a key. Press any key to continue...”
However, the step before that, “The phone will now reboot into HBOOT. If everything is okay, the phone will prompt you to continue by pressing VOLUME UP. It will reboot, flashing twice.”
PUSH POWER WHEN THIS STEP COMPLETES
I don't recall this happening for me or maybe it did but I did not notice. I did not press VOLUME UP nor see the flashing twice but surely it happened? Otherwise I would have been able to reboot into the phone environment correct? My head is spinning now...
Okay, this is where I may have gotten ahead of myself when reading the effin manual. You have to understand, I was just brimming with joy “thinking” I had successfully rooted my first ever and one and only smartphone.
I started looking for BusyBox or Superuser but couldn't find anything.
Not knowing what else to do, I rebooted the phone MANUALLY (hold power button and reset).
Then everything started going wrong.
Please don't get mad. I did not realise the aahk had to reboot several times. I thought once and that was it. I just found that out now.
However, between that time and when I found this out I believe I caused all sorts of damage.
When the phone rebooted, it got stuck on the white screen with HTC logo and aahk was no longer working.
The wrong things I did were to to go into HBOOT and RECOVERY and WIPE EVERYTHING (DATA, CACHE, DAVLIK, EVERYTHING) *SORRY!*
And so here I am, hoping someone can help me.
After searching around the forums some similarities I had with other users in the past was that the phone is still showing S-ON and because of what I had done, aahk did not get to work properly so my phone has no ROM and no RECOVERY.
And I also JUST realised I made things worse by deleting USB debugging when I WIPED everything!.
Please help.... (_ _”)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do not panic...although you did a factory reset and disabled usb debugging, you can solve your situation. Just flash the RUU (PD98IMG-GBx.zip) file you used to downgrade the phone. It has to be in the PD98IMG folder of the Hack Kit. Make sure that it is that file and no other. Rename it PD98IMG.zip and then put it in the root of the sdcard. Then boot in hboot and update pressing volume up. Let it finish....then you will have a working phone. Then re run the hack kit to Gain S-OFF and Root....if you can´t do it just hit the IRC Channel that is stated in the OP of the Hack Kit thread.

benydc, glevitan, thank you both for the offers of help and advice.
I eventually found my way to the IRC aahk support channel and was blessed to get the help of attn1, one of the ops there.
He helped me through my problem and now everything is as is should be. Thankfully I have a working rooted phone.
Everyone there was very friendly and helpful, not just attn1. He must have spent the last two hours or so juggling with helping out three users (probably more). We even got to make some friendly banter amongst ourselves.
Though I was freaked out initially, I am glad everything works now and from the support I got there, I am somehow not going to shy away from trying to learn about rooting.
I managed to save all the text during our conversation so when I get the time, I will try and build a simple but detailed walkthrough of how attn1 got my phone working again. I will post it here so that it may help others who find themselves in a similar position one day.
Many thanks you guys. This is a great community.

same problem,s-on,no recovery
hey there...ive got similar problem with u and i try putting the PG98IMG on the root of the SD card which i get from the folder from AAHK...but when i go to HBOOT and try to install the PG98IMG, it failed and it says MAIN VERSION IS OLDER ! what should i do?

hi
i have same phone whith you
2.3.5 sens 3.0
i used AAHK but the file name downloaded is "PD98IMG-GB2"
you can rename "PD98IMG" on "PD98IMG-GB2"

[Q] HOX+ FOTA update gone horribly wrong, restore failed, desperate for help

Hi All,
The story, I'm on vacation in Austria with my new HOX+ and suddenly I get an update for it. So I downloaded it and installed it. Suddenly I have no cell connection and cannot use wi-fi anymore. The phone is stuck in Airplane Mode and can not get out.
So I go looking on the web and spent hours reading on flashing, downgrading, rooting etc. So I decide to downgrade it to stock. Something went horribly wrong, as it didn't work. I unlocked it, every step correctly. Then I tried it again, and again, and again. Multiple different guides, video's everything. So then I thought I found a solution, install JB 4.1.2. So, following every step correctly I try this, no succes. But now suddenly I cannot see the sdcard, htc sync doesn't find my phone etc. Also, my phone doesn't go past the HTC bootlogo. I can now only run the bootloader by power vol-
So I try to flash the JB again, connection error, cannot find folder etc. So I start looking again, tried recovery, factory reset, nothing works. Flashed CWM 5.8.4.0 into the recovery, does not boot, only up to the HTC logo then powers down and reboots bootloader.
So here I go to the last resort: Stock RUU. I download the correct RUU for my HOX+ -in this case RUU_ENRC2B_U_JB_45_HTC_Europe_1.16.401.6_Radio_3.1204.168.32_release_297177_signed .... I start the programme and it works good and then it starts rebooting the bootloader and then I get the black background with silver HTC letters and then the RUU says Error 171 USB Connection Error.
I've tried about 10 times now in different USB slots, same thing every time.
Also, when I start the bootloader from scratch, it says Checking SD update... Failed to open usb master mode
Is there anybody who can help me? I have tried for 30 hours now, every single option (I think?)... I don't care what kind of ROM goes on there, stock, jb, evolution as long as it works!

Ran the RUU with admin rights?
Sent from my HTC One X

TToivanen said:
Ran the RUU with admin rights?
Sent from my HTC One X
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I did, first without and then multiple times with as I read that advice somewhere as well.
Also, I did relock the phone first as I read that somewhere, forgot to state above.

Ok the twentieth time seems to be a charm, after 5 hours trying the RUU is succesfully installed and everything works perfectly fine now!
Many thanks! Not sure if I would have tried again and again after it kept failing!

Also, probably wrong forum? HoX+ should have it's own forum does it not?

Gerolamos said:
Ok the twentieth time seems to be a charm, after 5 hours trying the RUU is succesfully installed and everything works perfectly fine now!
Many thanks! Not sure if I would have tried again and again after it kept failing!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have same problem should i try diffrent RUU or try 20th time ??
what should i do