As you all know, the Evo battery charging mechanism is very quirky. If you are using the stock battery, the mechanism is not THAT bad once you understand how it works. If, like me, you are using the 3500 battery, charging the battery in the Evo is pretty much futile. Reason being, for some reason the Evo still thinks it is charging the stock battery despite the fact that you have a battery that is 2.5 the capacity in it. What this means is, the fully charged green light comes on at about the 65% level and you ultimately have to play a guessing game as to when the battery is actually charged. This is also after calibrating and wiping stats and doing whatever dumb HTC/sprint charging "trick" out there.
I am pleading here for someone to create an app that measures the true capacity and charge level of the battery so that we can all, especially extended battery users, know when the battery is actually fully charged. I am positive that there are donations in the project as this app will benefit all Evo users.
Please help and thanks in advance.
+1
I've been looking at the 3500mAh batteries as well, would love to get one, but i flat refuse to pry open my Evo everytime I want a FULL charge (having to resort to wall charging)
I'm not an expert in electrical engineering at all but I'm going to make an educated guess that the charging circuitry is independant of anything that the OS itself can control. Even with the phone 100% off it still has to obey the "rules" of charging that HTC setup. (i.e. charging to 100% then running off battery till it hits 90%) So I don't see how there can be an easy workaround for extended battery users if they want a true 100% charge.
I'd love a bit more juice myself, but like I said the only time I want to have to open up the back is if im upgrading my mSD card. If and until someone can come up with a solution, hell yeah! Until then I will just play with juice defender and hone my battery saving ability via software
I know the Battery Time app you can put in how big your battery is. Just select other when choosing your phone.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
in for progress on this.
so tell me even though the phone thinks the battery is charged, does it stop charging it too?
If I remember correctly that may have to be done in the ROM/kernel, there is most likely a charging timer somewhere in there that stops it for safety reasons.
When changing the timer remember that the batteries are actually closer to 2800mAh than 3500, you don't want to overcharge it.
http://batteryboss.org/
Jsimon9633 said:
in for progress on this.
so tell me even though the phone thinks the battery is charged, does it stop charging it too?
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No it continues to charge which is even more nonsensical and adds to the frustrating guessing game. Seidio recommends that you keep the phone on the charger for 2-3 hours passed the time that the light turns green. Again, more guess work.
xHausx said:
If I remember correctly that may have to be done in the ROM/kernel, there is most likely a charging timer somewhere in there that stops it for safety reasons.
When changing the timer remember that the batteries are actually closer to 2800mAh than 3500, you don't want to overcharge it.
http://batteryboss.org/
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I think you are referring to wiping battery stats. I have tried this on several Roms and kernels to no avail. Also, if you aren't rooted, how would you go about wiping stats? An app would help a lot of people out.
Also after doing some more research and testing, any app that provides battery level that I have used including OS monitor, spare parts, etc. will basically spit out what the OS is telling it and not measure the true level. Unfortunatley, the OS is stuck on stupid and we are back to the original issue.
MSmith1 said:
I think you are referring to wiping battery stats. I have tried this on several Roms and kernels to no avail. Also, if you aren't rooted, how would you go about wiping stats? An app would help a lot of people out.
Also after doing some more research and testing, any app that provides battery level that I have used including OS monitor, spare parts, etc. will basically spit out what the OS is telling it and not measure the true level. Unfortunatley, the OS is stuck on stupid and we are back to the original issue.
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I don't believe it is possible for an app to do what you are wanting, the charging process is controlled by the operating system itself and is built into the kernel.
There are two main steps to charging a li-ion and the first one finishes when the battery is around 70% full. So either something is causing the phone not to start the second part of the process, it is just timing out thinking that battery should have been by that time, or, since the batteries have circuitry inside of them, it could be the battery itself that is doing it. Have you tried charging your phone through your USB port? It takes longer but the battery may not like how much power the wall charger pushes through it.
Edit: I think I misread your OP, does your phone stop charging when it says it's full or does it keep charging?
xHausx said:
I don't believe it is possible for an app to do what you are wanting, the charging process is controlled by the operating system itself and is built into the kernel.
There are two main steps to charging a li-ion and the first one finishes when the battery is around 70% full. So either something is causing the phone not to start the second part of the process, it is just timing out thinking that battery should have been by that time, or, since the batteries have circuitry inside of them, it could be the battery itself that is doing it. Have you tried charging your phone through your USB port? It takes longer but the battery may not like how much power the wall charger pushes through it.
Edit: I think I misread your OP, does your phone stop charging when it says it's full or does it keep charging?
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The phone continues to charge. Based on what you are saying and my own findings, it seems the phone is reporting that initial charge at 70% as 100% when using the 3500 battery.
I am in the midst of testing some things right now related to all of this and will report back.
MSmith1 said:
The phone continues to charge. Based on what you are saying and my own findings, it seems the phone is reporting that initial charge at 70% as 100% when using the 3500 battery.
I am in the midst of testing some things right now related to all of this and will report back.
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Thanks keep us up to date. I bought this battery too so very interested in any possible solution you find.
Basically the os says its 100% when in reality its not even close, more like 65% right?
Jsimon9633 said:
Thanks keep us up to date. I bought this battery too so very interested in any possible solution you find.
Basically the os says its 100% when in reality its not even close, more like 65% right?
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Yes. 10char.
how does the phone read the charge or does it?
maybe a glitch in regulating the flow?
any software determine could do this?
mine charges a good 8-10 hrs a night
never had a phone that needed more
anyone had to buy a standard battery replacement and get better battery?
software or hardware?
Jsimon9633 said:
Thanks keep us up to date. I bought this battery too so very interested in any possible solution you find.
Basically the os says its 100% when in reality its not even close, more like 65% right?
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Looks like I failed again. This issue really needs attention from someone well versed with how the Evo charges the battery and how to tweak the reporting deep in the android system. Wiping battery stats in recovery does not solve this issue. We need a SetBat!
I got curious so I looked at the evo's source and found that it stops charging when it thinks the battery is full and doesn't start again until it drops down to 80%. Although it should start charging again if you unplug it and then plug it back in. To fix it you will need someone to make drivers for your battery and incorporate it into a ROM.
Sorry I can't help more but compiling ROMs is still a little bit over my head right now.
xHausx said:
I got curious so I looked at the evo's source and found that it stops charging when it thinks the battery is full and doesn't start again until it drops down to 80%. Although it should start charging again if you unplug it and then plug it back in. To fix it you will need someone to make drivers for your battery and incorporate it into a ROM.
Sorry I can't help more but compiling ROMs is still a little bit over my head right now.
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Very interesting. The problem here is, the Evo stops charging when it thinks the stock battery is at 100 even though you have an extended battery in it.
I guess we would need a talented dev to compile a fix. Hoping that this thread can bring some attention to that. Looks like we have progress already!
Here are my findings from the monitoring I was doing earlier. It's a lazy Saturday for me so I actually had the time to watch the battery charge. For background info, I am using CM6RC2 and Snap 7.01 with the Seidio 3500 battery.
I let my battery deplete completely last night and woke up to charge it. Knowing full well that the Evo does not charge the battery correctly, I did some research into how I could properly monitor the charge on my own. What we are basically looking to do is to charge the battery to or close to 4.2v. You can monitor this yourself using any battery monitoring program. I was using spare parts.
What I saw was, the battery would charge to what the Evo thought was 100 or close to 100 for the stock 1500 battery, the green light came on and the reporting stats of charge/voltage stopped there. The phone was reporting a constant charge of 100 and the voltage froze at 3.9v despite the fact that the battery was actually charged to around 60-65%. These numbers froze there for a long period of time. The 100/green light never went away and the freeze in voltage reporting lasted about 1+ hours. The freeze at 3.9v was basically the OS reporting the 3.9v in error because it still was thinking that the stock battery was in the phone. The actual battery charge level was neither 100 nor 3.9 volts. Like I said, the voltage stayed at 3.9 for a while, lets say an hour+, and then it started charging up again to 4.2. I saw all of this happen in spare parts. The highest I saw the voltage get was 4207. It took around 5 hours to get to this point. Once it was close enough to 4.2, I rebooted into recovery and wiped my battery stats using Clockwork. On reboot, the battery was actually around 95%. Now I could have plugged the phone back in and repeated they process above but, as this point I basically gave up knowing that I couldn't really go through this type of process ever again because I never have time to sit there and watch a battery charge.
So back to point of this post, we need someone to find a way to have the Evo report true battery stats for extended batteries and not continually have the phone think that it is charging the stock battery. I don't know if it can be done in an app, in a rom, or in a kernel but, however we can get this done, it would be more than amazing.
I have never had a problem with my 3500 Seidio Battery in terms of charging.
I have never had less than 90% charge when I leave for work. But as it has been pointed out multiple times, this phone charges till 100% and then works off the battery until it hits 90%. In essence, this phone will never be charged to 100% unless you do it while turned off or quite possibly with the battery out of the phone.
Next time you think you don't have a full charge, take it off the charger, turn it off and then back on. Then stick it back on the charger, you will see that the charge is down to say.... 93% then it should start charging again. But too be honest, on a 3500mAh Battery, I really don't see the need. If you really need 100%, the best way to achieve this is with the phone turned off.
there are people in evo forums across the net that would donate en masse for this once word spreads. if it needs to be unique to each battery, the four most used are stock, 1750, 3000 chinese (what I have), and 3500 seidio. I would definitely donate for a true fix
Brutal-Force said:
I have never had a problem with my 3500 Seidio Battery in terms of charging.
I have never had less than 90% charge when I leave for work. But as it has been pointed out multiple times, this phone charges till 100% and then works off the battery until it hits 90%. In essence, this phone will never be charged to 100% unless you do it while turned off or quite possibly with the battery out of the phone.
Next time you think you don't have a full charge, take it off the charger, turn it off and then back on. Then stick it back on the charger, you will see that the charge is down to say.... 93% then it should start charging again. But too be honest, on a 3500mAh Battery, I really don't see the need. If you really need 100%, the best way to achieve this is with the phone turned off.
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I assume that you keep your phone charging all night?
If so, this isn't really for people who do that. This is more for people looking to charger their phone to at or near 100 on the go, at work, etc.
Also, 10% on the extended battery is probably a difference of at least an hour more battery. I'd say even more. That's a lot of time to me personally.
cabbieBot said:
there are people in evo forums across the net that would donate en masse for this once word spreads. if it needs to be unique to each battery, the four most used are stock, 1750, 3000 chinese (what I have), and 3500 seidio. I would definitely donate for a true fix
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Click to collapse
Agreed. I'd rather donate money to a true fix than buy an external charger. I have funds to donate for this READY TO GO ASAP.
I think this is a firmware related issue.. I cannot count how many posts and different senarios (batteries, chargers, rom's) I have read, yet still this issue remains. The only things I have ran across that actually works is:
1. Charging the battery externally (wall charger, dock, or etc)
2. Charging phone while phone is turned off.
3. Bump charging (aka: battery conditioning, battery syncing, "plug/unplug method")
4. Clearing the battery stats
Related
So.... following Mikey1022's thread crusade, I'm almost hesitant to post this here, but I feel like I'm going to get the most accurate answer from the people in this forum vs general...
On Cyanogens site, I found this for Battery Recalibration:
Battery recalibration
If you're experiencing higher than normal battery drain, try the following:
1. Charge the phone to full battery; let it keep charging until the battery says it is fully charged. Do not wait until the light is green, it isn't always fully charged, causing a lot of inaccuracies. (You can check by going to: Settings -> About Phone -> Status -> Battery Level = Full.)
2. Boot to recovery mode and go to console (or adb shell) and type:
mount -a
rm /data/system/batterystats.bin
NOTE: Newer Amon_Ra recoveries have an option to delete the battery stats, do this in place of the console commands above.
NOTE: To have the most accurate of battery stats, reboot the phone immediately after wiping the battery stats and wait for CM to boot completely to the desktop. Once your entire boot is done and you have full access to the phone, go ahead and pull the charger and continue with this troubleshooter.
1. Do not charge the phone until after draining the battery completely, resulting in it automatically shutting off.
2. Recharge the phone completely and then use as you normally would.
SO I'm at work, and don't have the option to check this, but unlike "hardware" battery calibration I'm mostly curious about removing the batterystats.bin
Would it help us with our battery woes, or do ours go deeper? For some reason, I noticed that mine's been draining a LOT faster in the past month or so then before...
Any thought?
This belongs in the general area?
I really don't think there's a magic forumula for these LIPO batteries. Unless you have a bad battery, you like numerous others need to join the battery 12 step program. I've already been through it. "Hello, my name is Sean and I'm obsessed with my battery life."
Long story short, just keep charge the battery when it gets low. If you work near an outlet or computer, and sleep near one - it's quite easy to keep the battery up throughout the day.
FYI, I've read up on this a bit regarding laptop batteries. It has nothing to do with the actual battery life or the "memory effect" (these batteries don't have a memory effect). It has to do with the OS's interpretation of the battery's performance and how it is reported to the user. So you're really recalibrating Android, not the physical battery. As far as I've read, this only "needs" to be done once in a great while, once a year maybe. Or if you notice something really odd with the battery level reporting.
I did this this morning as well since my phone was fully charged and ready to try it. Not had any hugely bad side effects from the phone and new battery (1750), but we will see if this changes anything.
wraithdu said:
FYI, I've read up on this a bit regarding laptop batteries. It has nothing to do with the actual battery life or the "memory effect" (these batteries don't have a memory effect). It has to do with the OS's interpretation of the battery's performance and how it is reported to the user. So you're really recalibrating Android, not the physical battery. As far as I've read, this only "needs" to be done once in a great while, once a year maybe. Or if you notice something really odd with the battery level reporting.
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Well, actually, that's why I put it in the development forum. These instructions are telling us to remove things from the system. Also on that note, my battery went from being at 30% full by 10pm (fully charged in the morning) to 30% full by 3pm (YES, 3) so something is definitely wrong, not just "I am obsessed with my battery life". Mind you, I'm at work until 2, so my phone drains to 30% on IDLE, with screen off. I was thinking maybe Android is misinterpreting something? I removed all programs that I thought might be causing this, turned off wifi, bt, gps, still no go. Maybe bad battery?
What I'm thinking this may help with is the fully charged issue the incredible has. I wouldn't follow the above instructions exactly however. Let me explain.
If you've ever noticed, the OS doesn't report "fully charged" correctly. Charge your battery to full (where both the green light comes on AND the "about phone" battery status says "Full". Now shut your phone off, you'll notice your light turns orange again, and will charge for about 30 minutes, sometimes more depending on how far off the battery is. If you turn on your phone after this, you'll notice you stay at 100% for quite some time. This is the case with a lot of incredibles from what I've seen... It probably has to do with the calibration notated above.
I would say do the calibration noted above, however, charge it the way I just noted (charge to full, shut the phone off, let it finish charging to full...). Then follow the rest of the steps immediately following. Might make a difference.
EDIT: this is probably even more true for the 1750mAh battery.
calibration and such has been discussed but not under its own name on page 3 i explain abit about the lithim ion battery vs nickel cadium.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=695472
junjlo said:
calibration and such has been discussed but not under its own name on page 3 i explain abit about the lithim ion battery vs nickel cadium.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=695472
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I was witness to that thread, and yes, you are correct, Lithium Ion batteries do not need to be conditioned, it is useless... However, we are not talking of conditioning, we are talking of proper reporting of battery life through the OS, which IS how Lithium Ion memory works. This is not saying to Cycle your battery 3 times to "condition" it to full potential. It is stating that the OS is not properly calibrated to report the proper life of the battery. If the OS cuts the charging of a Lithium Ion battery because it "thinks" it is at 100% charge, while the battery itself is at 80% (just a random example), then your battery life is going to appear to be shorter than it should. The example posted above would theoretically reset the OS so that when it says the battery is at 100%, it indeed is at 100%, preventing it from cutting a charge before it should. See my post previous post if you are confused. "Conditioning" is an entirely different animal, in which you "train" the batteries memory (in Nickel cad batteries) before utilizing your battery in normal charging operations. Lithium Ion does not have this memory, making "Conditioning" useless.
Moral to the Story here is to fully charge your phone when its off and you don't have to deal with any of these work arounds. Am I right?
buy a second battery and an external charger. I do this with every phone and I always seam to get battery life that is on the high side of what people report
Thank you for correcting that was bit early in the morning thought it was same question.
Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk
I'm trying this and I've seen an improvement already on the stock battery. Been off charge for 8hrs and 13 mins and is still at 70% charge. Figures it holds a charge when you want to run it down!
jermaine151 said:
I'm trying this and I've seen an improvement already on the stock battery. Been off charge for 8hrs and 13 mins and is still at 70% charge. Figures it holds a charge when you want to run it down!
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What, exactly, are you trying that's giving the improvement? The OP's suggestion of booting into recovery and deleting battery stats, or the other common suggestion of turning phone off for the remainder of the charge? 70% after over 8 hours is FAR better than I'm seeing, and I'd like to see the same results.
alexdw369 said:
What, exactly, are you trying that's giving the improvement? The OP's suggestion of booting into recovery and deleting battery stats, or the other common suggestion of turning phone off for the remainder of the charge? 70% after over 8 hours is FAR better than I'm seeing, and I'd like to see the same results.
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I charged with the phone off, then went into recovery and deleted the battery stats file. Now I'm trying to discharge it completely.
jermaine151 said:
I charged with the phone off, then went into recovery and deleted the battery stats file. Now I'm trying to discharge it completely.
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I am doing the same. Will follow up with results in a few days.
alexdw369 said:
What, exactly, are you trying that's giving the improvement? The OP's suggestion of booting into recovery and deleting battery stats, or the other common suggestion of turning phone off for the remainder of the charge? 70% after over 8 hours is FAR better than I'm seeing, and I'd like to see the same results.
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That's awesome! That's great battery life. I might have to try this.
~ IRC: nostradamus ~
EM30996 said:
That's awesome! That's great battery life. I might have to try this.
~ IRC: nostradamus ~
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Trying it myself tonight. Will post results tomorrow.
I'm trying it to. I will post results.
Sent from my HTC Incredible using Tapatalk
Just tried this method, fully charging the phone when it's off then wiping the battery stats. Hoping it'll fix the annoying problem that the battery doesn't fully charge when the phone is on, although I'm not sure if it even can be fixed -- does anyone know?
I'll update if I remember next time I charge it.
Giving a try
Hey guys. I am also giving this a try today.
I just completely charged my battery last night with it off. This morning I unplugged the charger (while the phone was still off) and plugged back in to make sure that the battery was fully charged. The green light turned orange for a couple of minutes and back to green so I proceeded to boot to recovery and removed the battery file. I am also running a Seidio 1750mah.
I am now up and running. I will post later this afternoon to let you know how it's going.
If this fixes the weird battery bug where the Incredible doesn't charge fully, I will kiss the OP. Seriously.
Edit: Changed the title to make the answer easier to find. The battery popup killer mod has nothing to do with why the battery level drops after unplugging, as you will learn when you read the linked article. Now, on to my original post...
Pretty much every ROM for the Epic now incorporates the Battery Full Popup Killer mod at this point, but are we sure there aren't any unintended side effects of it? Is the battery charge state still being recorded to the batterystats.bin file? I know when you delete it through a file manager, or reset the stats through CWM, it does regenerate, but there is a lot more info in that file than just the full and empty charge levels of the battery, so it would be regenerated for the other services that use it.
I've had issues with my battery reporting that it's full, but only showing a charge of anywhere between 94-98%. Now, if my battery were actually defective, and losing capacity faster than normal, the batterystats.bin file should be compensating for that by recording the lower full charge level and adjusting the percent reporting accordingly, but it doesn't seem to be doing that.
So, are we sure the state of the battery is being recorded, even though the popup is being blocked? What else could be causing this issue with so many people reporting that their batteries aren't charging to full?
Questions need to go in the q&a section to keep the development section for pure development. Or as a reply on someones thread/rom. Although I have seen this question raised once before on mammons thread I think. I think the answer was that the battery is not set to charge to 100, and some other technictal details I can't remember. But from a day 1 owner of epic, my phone has never charged above 96-98, it will go to 100, but the second I pull it off charger down to 96-98. Even stock, with no mods to the battery popup notification. And now being on a rom that does have that no pop up notification, so I don't have to get woken up from a vibrating phone, there is no change. I'm sure someone else can give you the more detailed explination though.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I forgot that there was a Q&A thread in the development section, sorry to clutter things up. Thanks for the details, I'll see if I can find the Mammon thread that has the same question in it.
Hopefully this gets moved to the proper section as its a good question. Firon and I did some early work on this mod and I can tell you that we simply aimed at the graphical display and then stopped it from reporting. We didn't alter how it reports %s in anyway. I can also say that this issue is found in a stock epic right out of the box. My feelings are that the actual code for charging the battery is done this way on purpose which is lazy and over cautious imho, maybe they were worried about ruining batteries or even having one explode. Sounds like poor project management in any case.
sent by an Epic4g through the cosmos
OK, after searching through the threads for a little while, I found a very good article dealing with this issue.
http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/1...bump-charging-and-inconsistent-battery-drain/
Basically, the battery is supposed to charge to 100%, and then it stops charging to drop the battery level down to a safe level. It will then periodically charge the battery again to maintain a high (but safe) charge level, but never back to 100%. The batteries used in smartphones today aren't safe to keep at 100%, nor is it good for them (they corrode faster), so the charging system keeps them at a full, but not completely full state during the charging process. The phone will report the battery as being full while plugged in, even though it could be running fully on battery power at that moment and a few percentage points below 100%. It does this to make it easy for regular users to know when their phone is finished charging. It's only when you delve into the details that you start to see that the battery isn't actually fully charged, and start to rip your hair out when trying to figure out why it won't do it.
To sum up the entire article, it's supposed to do that. There isn't anything wrong with your battery, or your phone, it's done to prolong the life of the battery, and so the battery won't explode or catch fire by being held at 100% for too long.
The only time my battery meter reads 100% is when I pop a fresh battery in from my external charger.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
I should have also added in my last post that bump charging does actually work, but will decrease the life of your battery. The experiment that the author of the linked article concluded that bump charging until the phone actually reads 100% while unplugged increased his battery charge by around 15%. Now, if holding your battery at 100% causes premature corrosion, it only makes sense that holding it at 115% causes corrosion at a greater rate.
If you absolutely must get the most time out of your battery, and are willing to buy a new one later on, go ahead a bump charge the **** out of that battery. The author suggests (and sites battery university as a source) that the best way to go about battery charging is to do several short charges throughout the day, rather than 1 deep charge from 0 to 100%.
Also, the author suggests that you stop obsessing on what the reported charge is telling you, and just use your phone.
Still makes no sense. They could code it to say 100% when its at 95% then so we atleast have the impression that its as full as could be safely. Like I said, over cautious and lazy imho...
sent by an Epic4g through the cosmos
Yeah, I suppose it is, but then it wouldn't be accurately reporting the battery level, which I guess is what Android's goal is. Personally, I'd prefer that if 95% is as much as I'm going to get out of a charge, than Android should just lie to me and tell me it's 100%.
mattallica76 said:
The only time my battery meter reads 100% is when I pop a fresh battery in from my external charger.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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same here, was going to say this as well.
yogi2010 said:
same here, was going to say this as well.
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I wonder if that's because the charge process brings the battery to 100% initially, then stops charging. Since the battery is in an external charger, there's nothing to draw power from it, so when it hits 100% and stops charging, it remains at 100% until there's a draw on the power.
I'm curious as to whether or not the user guide for the external charger mentions anything about not leaving your charged battery sit for a certain length of time. Based on the linked article, it's claimed that keeping the battery at 100% is damaging to it.
Migital Warfare said:
I wonder if that's because the charge process brings the battery to 100% initially, then stops charging. Since the battery is in an external charger, there's nothing to draw power from it, so when it hits 100% and stops charging, it remains at 100% until there's a draw on the power.
I'm curious as to whether or not the user guide for the external charger mentions anything about not leaving your charged battery sit for a certain length of time. Based on the linked article, it's claimed that keeping the battery at 100% is damaging to it.
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that's probably true about there not being anything to draw power when it's in the ext. charger. the funny thing is, I will pop in the fresh battery, and it will boot up the phone, and I can even do a several things, and the battery will still be at 100!
I try to take the battery out of the charger as soon as possible once it hits full charge, but I'm not always able to. I don't think there were any instructions wth the charger.... the whole thing was prety minimal: I paid my 12 bucks, or whatever, and never heard from them at all, until 2 weeks later an envelope arrived from China, containing only a charger and 2 batteries, lol.
I have both the Samsung OEM battery charger that they sell in the sprint store, and the cheepo Hong Kong charger that comes with knock off batteries. They both stop charging when the chip in the battery says it's full. Neither one had any documentation. I've seen zero negative effects from leaving any of my 5 oem batteries fully charged for long periods of time. The two knockoff batteries I had both died permenantly after about a month.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
mattallica76 said:
I have both the Samsung OEM battery charger that they sell in the sprint store, and the cheepo Hong Kong charger that comes with knock off batteries. They both stop charging when the chip in the battery says it's full. Neither one had any documentation. I've seen zero negative effects from leaving any of my 5 oem batteries fully charged for long periods of time. The two knockoff batteries I had both died permenantly after about a month.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
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dang, i guess i've had better luck with the cheapos.... been running them daily for over 2 months, and can't tell any difference between them and the Samsung battery that came with the phone.
yogi2010 said:
dang, i guess i've had better luck with the cheapos.... been running them daily for over 2 months, and can't tell any difference between them and the Samsung battery that came with the phone.
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When they worked, they worked great. But one day I charged one up and stuck it in my pocket. When I stuck it in my phone, i got nothin. I took it home and put it back in the charger and the indicator light said it was fully charged but it was completely bone dead. Wouldn't take a charge at all. Same thing happened to the other one a couple weeks later. I have yet to have any problems with the oem batteries.
really nice article and it actually makes me feel a lot better. i thought it was attributed to certain ROMs somehow as i feel like i picked the phone up at 100 and it stayed there on some but not others. guess that was all placebo, lol. i think hte best part of the article is right at the end:
If you are someone who can top off your phone on a regular basis, do it. Plug it in when you’re at home. Plug it in when you’re at your desk. As explained by Battery University, "Several partial discharges with frequent recharges are better for lithium-ion than one deep one. Recharging a partially charged lithium-ion does not cause harm because there is no memory."[2]
peace
Thanks for the informative thread
I'm ordering a spare battery; what is the best way to give it it's first charge / how should I condition it?
I don't think a lithium ion battery needs to be "conditioned" since it does not have the "memory" effect. It's usually the battery stats on the phone that can mess up the reading.
I would probably just make sure it is fully charged when switching them to be more accurate. But, I'm no expert...
Vangelis13 said:
I'm ordering a spare battery; what is the best way to give it it's first charge / how should I condition it?
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Thanks for the reply.
I'm fairly sure I'd read somewhere that it should be fully charged before turning on the phone for the first time & after that do a couple full cycles (full-empty-full) etc..?
Yes, a full charge before using is recommended (I've also heard to let it sit on the charger for a couple more hours after it is charged helps) and maybe a few full "cycles" after that. But, like I said, I'm no expert and I, personally, have had no issues with my battery
Vangelis13 said:
Thanks for the reply.
I'm fairly sure I'd read somewhere that it should be fully charged before turning on the phone for the first time & after that do a couple full cycles (full-empty-full) etc..?
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live4nyy said:
I don't think a lithium ion battery needs to be "conditioned" since it does not have the "memory" effect. It's usually the battery stats on the phone that can mess up the reading.
I would probably just make sure it is fully charged when switching them to be more accurate. But, I'm no expert...
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True, it's not for the battery but for the phone stats. Lithium ion batteries are fully conditioned at the factory before being sent out. It's the last step in the actual cell manufacturing process.
Yes, I work for a lithium ion battery manufacturer. We make larger cells (not the tiny ones in a phone battery) but I have contacts and friends that work for other manufacturers that do make the little ones and they're basically all the same.
i ordered too 1800mah batteries cause i couldnt find any 1950s...they both arrived dead i waited 30 mins to charge and turn the phone on, and the other one is extremely dead it shows charging for a few minutes and then the red light turns off
so far the one i charged to 100% isnt working how i would have liked it dropped to 50% within a few hours and i charged it to 100 again and it dropped to 80 very quickly im gonna let it die tonight hopefully i get them to work good
Sorry about your bad experience.
Don't know what you purchased or the vendor, but I purchased a 3200 mAh batt from Siedio and am quite happy with it. I've been using it for over a month and get heavy use of my Atrix. High quality batteries are not cheap. Don't get the $20 dollar specials. (I have no financial interest in Siedio, I'm sure there are other vendors with quality batteries).
Battery calibration has been a challenge but I think I have a solution. I'll know in a few days as I'm presently recalibrating. It would have been so much easier if Moto had added a 5 cent current sensor to the phone.
I wouldn't worry too much about conditioning it. Just use it like you regularly would any other battery. Most horrible battery life comes from the way Android handles the battery stats. In my experience, most Li-ion batteries seem to really get their most effective use cycles after about a week or 2 of consistent usage. If you're experiencing some really drastic battery drops though, that's when it may be time to recalibrate the battery stats or start questioning the rom/radio/kernel that you're using.
k0sun7eash3d said:
I wouldn't worry too much about conditioning it. Just use it like you regularly would any other battery. Most horrible battery life comes from the way Android handles the battery stats. In my experience, most Li-ion batteries seem to really get their most effective use cycles after about a week or 2 of consistent usage. If you're experiencing some really drastic battery drops though, that's when it may be time to recalibrate the battery stats or start questioning the rom/radio/kernel that you're using.
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Yep. However, unless you're impatient, charging it to full shouldn't do you any harm
For Lithium ion batteries, I've always put them immediately on the charger, let them go to 100%. Then unplug and let it completely die (that is, let it get so low the phone turns itself off) without pluging in. Then charge back to 100%. After that, use as normal. Doing this has gotten me long battery life, both short and long term compared to others I know who dont do that.
When I bought my phone the Bell representative said to fully charge then discharge the battery. I thought that you aren't supposed to do this though because Li-Ion batteries lose some of their maximum life when you do that. Only Ni-Cad batteries needed conditioning like that.
I could be wrong though. Would be nice to know proper procedure for this kind of thing
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
You're right, lithium ion batteries should not be fully discharged but it does help the first time to get the battery reading accurate. After that just charge whenever. It only really becomes a problem if you let it go dead too often.
Sparx10 said:
When I bought my phone the Bell representative said to fully charge then discharge the battery. I thought that you aren't supposed to do this though because Li-Ion batteries lose some of their maximum life when you do that. Only Ni-Cad batteries needed conditioning like that.
I could be wrong though. Would be nice to know proper procedure for this kind of thing
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App
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live4nyy said:
You're right, lithium ion batteries should not be fully discharged but it does help the first time to get the battery reading accurate. After that just charge whenever. It only really becomes a problem if you let it go dead too often.
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+1. There's two reasons store reps tell you to discharge and charge the battery at least one complete cycle before using the phone. The first is that they're stuck in the past and think li-ion tech is the same as NiMH. The second and more sound reason is that it helps to set the battery statistics. If you're one of those people who loves to mod their phones right when they open the box, you could theoretically bypass this step by rooting and charging to 100%, and then just doing a manual battery recalibration by wiping the battery stats.
jbg1 said:
i ordered too 1800mah batteries cause i couldnt find any 1950s...they both arrived dead i waited 30 mins to charge and turn the phone on, and the other one is extremely dead it shows charging for a few minutes and then the red light turns off
so far the one i charged to 100% isnt working how i would have liked it dropped to 50% within a few hours and i charged it to 100 again and it dropped to 80 very quickly im gonna let it die tonight hopefully i get them to work good
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Yeah - if these are the Chinese jobs that came with the charger on Ebay, I got them too. They drop REALLY fast down to 5%, then I get at least another 24 hours out of them. It's crazy. I have tried to recalibrate by removing battery stats, but these haven't gotten any more accurate in several full charge / discharge cycles.
I suppose I will use them as spares, and just understand that the meter is not accurate on them. I still get a minimum two days with these cells. Will see how long they last. With batteries, you do get what you pay for.
When I get my new toy tomorrow, I plan on using it! As per what I've read, gonna use it down to 10% or so...then give 'er a full-up charge. Kind of curious what everyone elses' plans are for their first time 'round?
k.babymamma said:
When I get my new toy tomorrow, I plan on using it! As per what I've read, gonna use it down to 10% or so...then give 'er a full-up charge. Kind of curious what everyone elses' plans are for their first time 'round?
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Most likely this, but I may play around with the spare battery and throw the battery in the charger for 8hrs
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using xda app-developers app
k.babymamma said:
When I get my new toy tomorrow, I plan on using it! As per what I've read, gonna use it down to 10% or so...then give 'er a full-up charge. Kind of curious what everyone elses' plans are for their first time 'round?
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Is that the general consensus on how to break in the battery? First move to an android phone and learning all I can.
I have always charged it up when i get it first then all the way down...but we all know how it is when we get a new phone....can't put it down! So...i play a bit first..
Confirmed tomorrow delivery!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2
I usually run it dead first then charge it to full. I don't think there is a wrong way to do it anymore. someone correct me if I am wrong and why.
rans0m00 said:
I usually run it dead first then charge it to full. I don't think there is a wrong way to do it anymore. someone correct me if I am wrong and why.
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I do the exact same thing as you.
Rocket42 said:
I have always charged it up when i get it first then all the way down...but we all know how it is when we get a new phone....can't put it down! So...i play a bit first..
Confirmed tomorrow delivery!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I717 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2
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Congrats to everyone *finally* getting their beastie! I can't wait for mine...nor can I wait to PLAY with it! I did some researching on ye ole battery issue...there are a lot of different theories...so I decided to go with the "drain it out of the box, then charge" because this fits in with my extreme need to PLAY! I read it may be a good way to go to "break in" the battery, if you're of that school of thought. Some people say they do not need "broken in". Some say they need fully charged first...yada yada yada and so on & so forth. I do think the newer batteries are different than those of yesteryear in that they don't have a memory, etc, and some of the old schoolers are still stuck with that thinking. Maybe. I dunno. I'm far from any expert. (I just wanna PLAY!!! lol)
Anyone try out that Ready2Go thing thru AT&T? Kinda neat. I did it. We'll see. I just did my contacts though. The rest is taking the fun away of customizing a new toy!
rans0m00 said:
I usually run it dead first then charge it to full. I don't think there is a wrong way to do it anymore. someone correct me if I am wrong and why.
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A Google dev came out and said on XDA a while back (the heck if I'm going to try to find the post) that battery stats have basically no effect on anything anymore. All the same, I "grew up" on cell phones by draining them to 0, then plugging them in until 30 minutes after they show a full charge, so I've just kept doing it that way.
It seems to me that companies wouldn't send out a battery without testing it... Which would involve charging/discharging it. So I don't think there's any need to treat a battery any differently when it's fresh out of the box than you would after the "break-in" methods people have posted in here.
T.J. Bender said:
...All the same, I "grew up" on cell phones by draining them to 0, then plugging them in until 30 minutes after they show a full charge, so I've just kept doing it that way.
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this is probably why I do it too.
You should not be using the same method on Lithium-Ion batteries that you do on Ni-cad... cause they ain't nicad
Just do a little research. They don't require any break-in. Not only that but it's suggested you charge often and not fully discharge if you can avoid it.
Just plug the phone in when you get it and charge it up. If you want to use it feel free, plugged in or not.
Some common tips taken from Gizmodo and Blackberry's sites:
• Do not let it run out completely all the time. Full discharge puts a lot of strain on the battery
• Do not keep a Li-ion battery fully charged all the time, either. If you don't use your battery it might suffer from capacity loss
• Keep your battery in cooler temperatures. Hot hot heat is not good for it
• If you're gonna store your battery, leave 40%-50% charge in and store it in a cool place (i.e. fridge).
1. When you get a new Blackberry, charge it fully to 100%. There is no 120% or 130%, so once it hits 100%, it is fully charged. This normally takes about 2-4 hours for a new device. There is nothing wrong with “over-charging” the battery, however there is no real need to do so. Sometimes, new Li-ion batteries will come fully charged out of the box.
2. There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies.
3. If you are a brand new BlackBerry user, keep in mind that you are likely using (or playing with) your BlackBerry much more the first few days than in normal routine use. If you think you are having quick battery discharge issues, give yourself a week or so until your daily BlackBerry usage levels off to a perceived normal amount. Don't freak out after the first one or two days if your battery depletes itself halfway through the day--You're probably using the device at a higher than normal use.
Lectures tterngs
santiagodraco said:
You should not be using the same method on Lithium-Ion batteries that you do on Ni-cad... cause they ain't nicad
Just do a little research. They don't require any break-in. Not only that but it's suggested you charge often and not fully discharge if you can avoid it.
Just plug the phone in when you get it and charge it up. If you want to use it feel free, plugged in or not.
Some common tips taken from Gizmodo and Blackberry's sites:
• Do not let it run out completely all the time. Full discharge puts a lot of strain on the battery
• Do not keep a Li-ion battery fully charged all the time, either. If you don't use your battery it might suffer from capacity loss
• Keep your battery in cooler temperatures. Hot hot heat is not good for it
• If you're gonna store your battery, leave 40%-50% charge in and store it in a cool place (i.e. fridge).
1. When you get a new Blackberry, charge it fully to 100%. There is no 120% or 130%, so once it hits 100%, it is fully charged. This normally takes about 2-4 hours for a new device. There is nothing wrong with “over-charging” the battery, however there is no real need to do so. Sometimes, new Li-ion batteries will come fully charged out of the box.
2. There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies.
3. If you are a brand new BlackBerry user, keep in mind that you are likely using (or playing with) your BlackBerry much more the first few days than in normal routine use. If you think you are having quick battery discharge issues, give yourself a week or so until your daily BlackBerry usage levels off to a perceived normal amount. Don't freak out after the first one or two days if your battery depletes itself halfway through the day--You're probably using the device at a higher than normal use.
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AWESOME post, thanks!
santiagodraco said:
You should not be using the same method on Lithium-Ion batteries that you do on Ni-cad... cause they ain't nicad
Just do a little research. They don't require any break-in. Not only that but it's suggested you charge often and not fully discharge if you can avoid it.
Just plug the phone in when you get it and charge it up. If you want to use it feel free, plugged in or not.
Some common tips taken from Gizmodo and Blackberry's sites:
• Do not let it run out completely all the time. Full discharge puts a lot of strain on the battery
• Do not keep a Li-ion battery fully charged all the time, either. If you don't use your battery it might suffer from capacity loss
• Keep your battery in cooler temperatures. Hot hot heat is not good for it
• If you're gonna store your battery, leave 40%-50% charge in and store it in a cool place (i.e. fridge).
1. When you get a new Blackberry, charge it fully to 100%. There is no 120% or 130%, so once it hits 100%, it is fully charged. This normally takes about 2-4 hours for a new device. There is nothing wrong with “over-charging” the battery, however there is no real need to do so. Sometimes, new Li-ion batteries will come fully charged out of the box.
2. There is no “break-in” or “conditioning” required for the Li-ion batteries. They do not need the old “fully discharge – fully charge” routine for the initial three charges as was recommended on older battery technologies.
3. If you are a brand new BlackBerry user, keep in mind that you are likely using (or playing with) your BlackBerry much more the first few days than in normal routine use. If you think you are having quick battery discharge issues, give yourself a week or so until your daily BlackBerry usage levels off to a perceived normal amount. Don't freak out after the first one or two days if your battery depletes itself halfway through the day--You're probably using the device at a higher than normal use.
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Click to collapse
This is exactly right. Lithium Ion batteries benefit from smaller and quicker charge/discharge cycles. Actually draining a Li-ion battery to 0% and letting the phone die can decrease the total battery capacity and causes unnecessary damage to the battery. You should never do a "deep-discharge" and full recharge on a Li-ion battery.
Just pull it out of the box and use it, charge it before it hits 0%, and you'll be alright.
Heres another trick
I have done this more than a few times. Does it make a difference? I cannot say with anything more than anecdotal evidence, but I have had noticeable success and the logic makes a certain degree of sense.
Running the battery fully down often is claimed to be detrimental, and I have no reason to doubt that. Doing so once in say, 25 cycles is probably not a bad idea, although it does not do much of anything to capacity. What it does is help calibrate the battery meter. Than I add the following technique to increase the discharge time (run time) of the device:
At whatever point you finally let the battery fully discharge, do this as well:
If you have power saving feature, turn it off to get the job done. When it actually shuts down from being fully discharged, plug in and charge fully with the phone OFF. When the battery reached 100% fully charged take out the plug, wait a minute, and put it back on the charger. It will charge for 5-10 minutes more. NOW remove the plug, boot the phone, and put the plug bag in again (more charging ensues) and repeat one additional time. THIS technique seems to "Stuff" more electrons into the phone (see how scientific my explanation is? Whether I am helping, hurting or having no effect on the batteries longevity i can't say, but I CAN say is that I absolutely see longer cycles for quite some time after doing this.YMMV of course.
Whatever you consider "training" the battery, make 100% sure that the first full charge is indeed that: a FULL charge. This is one point that most documentation agrees upon. Getting the full use of the battery requires a FULL and complete first charge. Since I have no method to trickle charge, I tend to use the device while initial charging completes - I feel like that draws out the process, though why this is better. I can't say.
If only there was a definitive guide. Yes there are points in common among experts (such as running lithium ion fully charged all the time, especially warm, is terrible for them, yet almost all laptop makers let this happen by default when you run it on the charger (there is software to cycle the batteries), and some companies are including versions of this type of utility. Bottom line? batteries are cheap enough, but it's not ABOUT the money - It's about the run time. Heck - if I can't get good run time for a 3100 mA Battery, with a 2 amp charger, I better hang it up!
put the battery in, don't turn on the phone, and charge overnight. I know I know, this is the most difficult part. after that do whatever you like.
You are supposed to run the battery down every now and then(like every few months) What this does is it re calibrates the battery, separate from the android battery stat.
The batteries are tested and filled and drained then charged half way before packaged. A half of a charge is best for storage.
If your batter is dead when you open the box, exchange it. A battery sitting dead is really really bad. I have purchased a psp and some other devices that had DOA batteries and they never hold a charge for very long.
Android is the best I've seen with overcharging. Meaning there is none. The Android OS controls charging and doesn't allow the battery to fry like laptops do when plugged in all the time. I wouldn't worry about it with any Android device. Laptops should not stay plugged in for more than a few hours after full.
Running the battery down to zero (which is really 1-3%) is not "bad" what it really does is use up your charge/discharge cycle. Batteries have a certain number of charge/discharge cycles (like 300 or so) and running from full to dead to full every day will run the battery out faster; rather than charging it at half way or topping it off often.
please read post 11 and ignore anyone else who says anything to the contrary. i race radio control cars, we use lipo batteries, the system has a voltage cut off in the car for a reason. if you run them down too low, the cell will die, and will not take a charge. if you let them sit too long with a low charge, they will die. end of story. they do not need to be fully cycled like the old nicad batteries.
Dave
I say don't worry about it. The battery is replaceable and doesn't cost much. Enjoy your new toy any way you like and put battery worries out of your head.
Wondering what people do on their first charge/drain to get the most out of their batteries now that you cant change them out or if this is still even a thing.
Gilley said:
Wondering what people do on their first charge/drain to get the most out of their batteries now that you cant change them out or if this is still even a thing.
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I would also like to know this.
I used to, until I got the Note 5 and googled it. From what I read the new batteries don't need to be conditioned.
Edit - found this from 2011
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1169979
Any lithium-ion or lithium-polymer battery does not need 'conditioning', in that it doesn't have a memory effect like ni-cad. Android battery percentage estimation has also improved; back in Gingerbread days, Samsung phones learned from your usage patterns what 0% really was, but that ended up requiring a battery stats wipe if you really wanted to get the lifetime from your phone that you wanted.
To get the absolute most out of your battery:
Don't let it get too hot.
Don't let it get too cold.
Don't let it drop to 0%.
Don't keep it at 100%.
Don't fast charge.
Pretty easy.
That last one...definitely been breaking that rule
I always fast charge
I have a slower charger by my nightstand, but during the day I tend to fast charge
Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk
fast charging is only for special situations, if not, that charging mode would be the standard manner, think about it
When I get the phone I always drain in to 0% try to boot even few times and the charge to 100% while it's turned off then power it on and remove the charger... At least this helps to calibrate my S4 battery after the ROM flash... Don't see any harm in this if u get a new device or a new ROM.