Develop Bugs

[Q] Using the original RUU

This is probably going to sound quite stoopid but I've tried to read up on RUUs and I still don't get it.
So, here's the question:
The original EVO RUU is on file at the XDA wiki
As are copies of each upgrade
Would it be possible on an EVO with either .3 or .6 Froyo to simply start over with the original RUU and then apply each update until at Eclair 1.47?
With the .6 stock rooted rom and the naked bunny 3.7.7 kernel I'm way happy myself, but for those with Froyo and desparate to get to root or for those who are simply too dissatisfied with things like Pandora being kinda broken - is this in any way an option?
I rather doubt it, otherwise I'd expect to have heard about this - but the whole RUU thing confuses me, I've never used (and hope never to use it) so I thought I'd ask.
Asbestos Underoos on, ready to be flamed if this is really that stoopid.
Thanks and cheers.

The RUU's are for upgrading your system, unless you are rooted you will not be able to install an older version than what is on your phone.

OK, many thanks. Promise I tried to search first.
/thread

Link to the latest radio that doesn't require S-OFF?

I have my phone rooted with Unrevoked 3.1, and I wanted to try a 2.2 ROM. They all say they need a 2.xx radio. Unrevoked Forever looks great, but I'm not willing to do a change that can't be undone yet, especially when I've paid for insurance through Best Buy (I don't know that it explicitly violates the service plan, but eh). However I can only find links to the 2.15 radio, which requires S-OFF. Anyone still have the link? And does anyone have a guide to revert to stock if I need to? Thanks.

you need the leaked ota update with the 2.05 radio.
this is a patched radio that will brick your phone if you update it over itself so just be careful.
you can revert back to stock but it is a fairly involved process. i have not tried it so i can't really comment on how difficult it is but it is not a simple install.
really you are much better off using s-off but that is your call.

Well, does anyone have any experience with Best Buy and stuff like this?

Now that SOFF has been out for a week, we are starting to see people who have to return their phones with SOFF. They should be able to report back within a month to see whether anyone refused their warranty.
In the interim, let's keep our fingers crossed that unrevoked will release SON quickly.

[Q] A few questions before rooting

Hey guys, first time poster here and a bit of a newb to rooting, Android and smart-phones in general.
I've been hanging on these forums the past 3 months researching the rooting process for a Desire and all the relevant stuff that goes along with it. So please go easy on me. I've also read all the 'similar threads' suggested to me at post-time.
I'm almost ready to begin the process but there's a few bits of information that's got me pretty scared before I go ahead. I wasn't able to find much of a concrete answer/s to these questions, from Googling around.
Well without further ado.
What is the difference between GSM & CDMA and do I need to know which my phone is before proceeding?
If I DO need to know, how do I find this out?
My phone is branded (Orange splash-screen at boot) and locked to Orange network (Newly recieved contract phone).
I've heard that I may need a goldcard to proceed with the Unrevoked process due to the branding. Is this correct?
Another guide on the net (can provide link if necessary), mentions upgrading the radio on Orange phones can permanently break the wifi OR permanently simlock your phone.
Will I need to worry about this during the Unrevoked rooting process? And will this be avoidable after installing a custom rom. (If I get that far )
I read somewhere on these forums (I forgot where exactly), something about the newest Orange OTA update causing problems with the rooting process. Is this still the case or has Unrevoked been updated to avoid that now? Also, how can I check if I have that update?
I can provide all the information about my Hboot, radio and kernel versions etc, if you need it (I guess you will), but for some reason, I keep getting a spam warning as this is my first post. I can only assume the version numbers are being interpreted as IPs...
Well sorry for the wall of text, but I greatly appreciate any help I can get regarding these issues. I'm so scared of bricking my Desire and not being able to return it, if bricking does occur.
Yours a worried root newb!

1. We use GSM phones in the UK as we use SIM cards. CDMA phones don't use SIM cards and are locked/released to one network
2. You don't need a gold card to root, no. As there isn't an Orange RUU available to go back to stock for warranty you will need one to flash a non-Orange RUU. Best to make one before starting
3. This was the case a while back but I'd wait for confirmation before changing it
4. No as the radio isn't flashed during a ROM (unless stated in the ROM thread that it does)
5. Shouldn't be an issue, just get the latest version of unrEVOked from their website before starting

Great, that's most of my questions/concerns answered. Although the below answer has brought a new question to the front
EddyOS said:
2. You don't need a gold card to root, no. As there isn't an Orange RUU available to go back to stock for warranty you will need one to flash a non-Orange RUU. Best to make one before starting
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately my knowledge of RUU is almost non-existant, other than that it stands for Rom Upgrade Utility and is used to upgrade the software on my phone? Right?
And forgive me if I'm being dumb here but, if
EddyOS said:
there isn't an Orange RUU available to go back to stock for warranty
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and yet I
EddyOS said:
will need one to flash a non-Orange RUU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
then how can I do this? Or am I totally misunderstanding you?
Do I somehow use an application without root permission to perform a procedure similar to hdd ghosting?

Basically, if you wanted to return to stock for any reason you wouldn't be able to go back to the Orange ROM as the RUU doesn't exist so you'd have to go to a generic ROM. To flash any ROM other than the originally on the phone you need a gold card
It's the same for me, if (for some strange reason) I'd want to flash a branded ROM on my Desire I'd need a gold card. Thankfully, I have an unbranded handset so I can get the stock RUU and use it without a gold card

EddyOS said:
Basically, if you wanted to return to stock for any reason you wouldn't be able to go back to the Orange ROM as the RUU doesn't exist so you'd have to go to a generic ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically if I were to screw it up, which I hopefully won't, I'm buggered as far as getting my phone fixed cos they'll see the Orange rom is no longer installed? Not too fussed about that, as I'm super-careful with my phone.
I guess my next issue would be, after rooting using Unrevoked, I'd need to gain S-OFF right? Which I understand is done via AlphaRev. Only issue there would be related to this
"Please revert to a rooted stock ROM if possible. Your /data partition is used for temporary storage of important files." If I'm reverting to a stock rom, while gaining S-OFF presumably there's a high chance that'd upgrade my radio - a potentially very bad thing.
THEN I go about choosing a rom to flash. Then Nandroid backup. Then flash the rom, hopefully love it and voila?
Also, what would you suggest as a good rom for someone like me just starting out with a fully rooted phone? I was thinking one of the official builds to lose all the crap, but then the above issue of the radio creeps up again...

I have been flashing ROM's since I got my phone rooted last year and I have never bothered to S-OFF. It's not a requirement.
I have tried a number of ROM's (it becomes a bit addictive!) there is not normally a need to flash a new radio, just leave it be. If you are worried about it and the ROM requires a new radio don't flash it. There are plenty to choose from.
As for recommendations, everyone has their own tastes and likes. That's the beauty of modding. Just flash a few ROM's and see which you like. I have tried most of them, stuck with MIUI for ages, but am now on Cyanogenmod 7 Nightly's.

There is nothing to really worry about. There is a remote chance of bricking your phone for a start, like 0.0000000001% chance. Only way of doing it is disconnecting during say an S-Off.
As for the Orange issue. I had a locked, Orange Desire with 2.2 on it (the first update) and when I rooted and S-Off'd I had no problems. I also have updated my radio to 5.14.05.17 and have no issues at all. To be honest, I found issues to do with signals and Wi-Fi are to do with the ROM you install and the kernel as well which can be frustrating but fun as well.
As for choosing a ROM, choose one, flash it then see what it's like. It's purely down to what you like most about each ROM. I've been through so many ROMs in the past few months but now I am sort of staying with 1 ROM. I will say that when I installed a custom ROM, I had to pay to unlock my sim because it was being gay and Orange wanted £20 of my hard earned cash to unlock it and send it off. So be prepared.

thetasigma3 said:
So basically if I were to screw it up, which I hopefully won't, I'm buggered as far as getting my phone fixed cos they'll see the Orange rom is no longer installed? Not too fussed about that, as I'm super-careful with my phone.
I guess my next issue would be, after rooting using Unrevoked, I'd need to gain S-OFF right? Which I understand is done via AlphaRev. Only issue there would be related to this
"Please revert to a rooted stock ROM if possible. Your /data partition is used for temporary storage of important files." If I'm reverting to a stock rom, while gaining S-OFF presumably there's a high chance that'd upgrade my radio - a potentially very bad thing.
THEN I go about choosing a rom to flash. Then Nandroid backup. Then flash the rom, hopefully love it and voila?
Also, what would you suggest as a good rom for someone like me just starting out with a fully rooted phone? I was thinking one of the official builds to lose all the crap, but then the above issue of the radio creeps up again...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't bother about S-OFF at the moment, you don't need it. Just get rooted and then look into custom ROMs for now

Ok I've taken a tiny step further forward. I'm at the point of making a goldcard but one thing concerns me... http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=6710085&postcount=3 According to that it won't work with the 2.2 OTA update from HTC.
I know, I have 2.2 installed but this was already on the phone when I received it, so I've no idea if this was an OTA or not... So I guess I need a different method to make a goldcard now?

Use this:
http://android.modaco.com/content/software/308798/pc-application-goldcardtool/
Probably need to register to get the file, though

Hmmm tried using that tool and no joy... Get my img file downloaded, but then the tool refuses to recognise my phone, despite doing the appropriate change over to 'disk drive'. I tried re-plugging the un-mounting and re-plugging the usb cable. Still no joy.
I'm beginning to lose hope here... That tool won't work and the tutorial here says it's incompatible with 2.2...
**edit**
Been Googling around a fair bit and I can't find any information at all on downgrading a branded 2.2. Only information on people with branded handsets wanting to update to 2.2.
After a bit more searching, I found someone else with the exact same issue as me. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10370443&postcount=977
Only one difference though. He doesn't mention if he managed to flash a custom rom after his root. I'm guessing he probably wouldn't have been able to going by your post:
EddyOS said:
To flash any ROM other than the originally on the phone you need a gold card
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

A gold card is only needed to flash a STOCK ROM different from your original - it's not needed to flash a custom ROM. The gold card isn't even needed to root. It's just handy to have in your case as you'd need it to go back to stock due to the lack of an Orange RUU
I'm out of ideas I'm afraid, never had to deal with a gold card as I'm unbranded

Use this:
http://android.modaco.com/content/so...-goldcardtool/
Probably need to register to get the file, though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does that work a lot better then?
I used the method posted by thetasigma3 and I can't get OTA 2.29.405.5 but I can get 2.29.405.2. To get round the problem I installed the 2.29.405.5 RUU and rooted

Anyone who's debranded will need to use the RUU as the OTA won't go through

GoogleJelly said:
I will say that when I installed a custom ROM, I had to pay to unlock my sim because it was being gay and Orange wanted £20 of my hard earned cash to unlock it and send it off. So be prepared.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Call me crazy, but why the heck would flashing a custom rom require you to unlock and send off? Presumably the sending off thing would've been for Orange to perform the unlock procedure?
Anyway, back to my main issue, I know I've probably tread the same ground a few times now, but I really don't wanna end up bricking, cos I overlooked a tiny element, or something.
Could someone confirm I have these points all correct please?
Goldcard NOT needed for rooting.
Goldcard NOT needed if/when I flash a custom rom.
Goldcard needed if I wanted to go back to a STOCK rom.
Only reason to flash a STOCK rom is if I need to send back to Orange for repairs etc.
Oh and thanks for the clarification on your earlier post EddyOS. About goldcards not being needed for custom roms as opposed to stock etc.
Think I'm ready to go ahead with the process now, but if I go ahead and something goes wrong, what's my safety net, so to speak? Presumably my battery would die on me long before I get a response here

What you have there is correct (point 2-5)
The unlocking issue was down to some radios causing Orange handsets to become SIM locked. If you're using an Orange SIM this isn't an issue but others who got an Orange handset but use a different SIM card found they wouldn't work.
This was earlier in the Desire's life and I don't think it's applicable now

Try using "GoldCard Helper" app from Android Market, in case you want to try and make a goldcard (as the other methods did not work for you).
As mentioned as EddyOS, all your points from 2 - 5 are correct.

Ok finally got the guts together to go ahead and run unRevoked. (Already had done the driver steps etc).
I've checked with an app from the Android Market, called 'Root Check' to verify root access. That's saying I do have it and it also asked for Root permissions on start-up, which it never did before root. So I assume that's a good sign. I also checked for the 'Superuser Permissions' app in my apps menu. Found it was present and clicked it. Started without any problems. So I guess that's another good sign.
So I guess my next set of questions are reasonable simple.
Does this seem like my phone is now 100% rooted? I think it is, but I could be wrong.
Do I need to install Busybox? Root Checker seems to like seeing it there.
Does it matter if I use Titanium Backup Pro or free? I'm guessing it won't but I'd like to be certain.
If I backup my current Orange rom with Titanium Backup will I be able to go back to that without a goldcard? My guess is no. I didn't make or use one for the root process.

1. Yes
2. For Titanium Backup, yes
3. No
4. You don't backup the ROM with TB, you boot into Recovery and do it there

kvphani said:
Try using "GoldCard Helper" app from Android Market, in case you want to try and make a goldcard (as the other methods did not work for you).
As mentioned as EddyOS, all your points from 2 - 5 are correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey man, I downloaded that app and found a fairly easy looking guide on the Unlockr http://theunlockr.com/2010/03/10/how-to-create-a-goldcard/ . Just wanted to check, if I use that app plus this guide. I skip steps 1-6 right?
Ok gone ahead and done that now. Just having some trouble finding instructions on backing up my Orange rom.
Oh and now that the forum won't grumble at my phone info, here it is. Hopefully that'll shed some more light on my situation, if I need further help.
BRAVO PVT4 SHIP S-ON
HBOOT-0.93.0001
MICROP-051d
TOUCH PANEL-SYNW0101
RADIO-5.10.05.30
Aug 10 2010, 17:52:18
Android Version
2.2
Baseband Version
32.48.00.32U_5.10.05.30
Kernel Version
2.6.32.15-g29e526b
[email protected] #1
Build Number
2.17.61.3 CL274424 release-keys
Softare Number
2.17.61.3
Browser Version
WebKit 3.1
Model Number
A8181

Incredible 2 Preloaded with 2.3.3

I received an Inc 2 as a replacement phone and it came preloaded with the gingerbread ota.
I have researched various forums and have found some conflicting information. Mainly, this thread serves as a clarification for myself and those that also have gingerbread preinstalled.
1. Is it possible to downgrade to froyo in order to root when the phone comes preinstalled with gingerbread?
2. Is there currently a way, software wise, to root the 2.3.3 gingerbread update?
3. If the answer to the previous questions is no, is it ever going to be possible to install a custom rom and/or gain root access ?
Basically I am trying to decide if I should attempt to exchange it for an Inc2 with the old froyo software installed.
Thanks in advance.

I got lucky, I already replaced fascinate with dinc2 and got it today, however I had froyo on it.
1. no
2. no
3. Wait for an exploit or buy XTC clip.

No, you cannot downgrade to Froyo without rooting the phone.
No, there is no way to root the phone via software, YET.
Yes, it is likely that there will eventually be a software root for GB phones. It might be a while, because they just came out with froyo root a few weeks ago.
You could always get in on one of those XTC clip trading/group buy deals. I would just keep your phone for the time being, because honestly, there aren't any good ROM's yet. (this goes along with the fact that the phone just recently got rooted)
You're not really missing out on anything. My phone is rooted, and I am running the OTA debloated, not much different....

AT&T did that with My ARIA when I ordered it it was supposed to have 2.1 (Eclair) on it that was rootable, but by the time I got it they had released 2.2 (Froyo) and they shipped it that way.
I didn't have to wait very long before S-OFF was achieved though.
I imagine some Dev will stumble onto a way to S-OFF the latest OTA.
But If its the latest version I as far as I know you will need an XTC-Clip to get S-OFF.

I had miui on my fassy and miss it greatly
Oh well, it was worth a shot. Guess I can deal with stock for a while, if it becomes too unbearable I'll cough up the money for a clip.

haha you'll have the official MIUI with dinc2. check miui-us's post

deaffob said:
haha you'll have the official MIUI with dinc2. check miui-us's post
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Drooling over that currently haha
At least sense is better than touchwiz

I saw a few guys on here claim to be able to downgrade, but I don't know the truth to that statement. If I was in your position I would look into it, though.
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA App

From what I can gather, you can only downgrade if your phone was rooted and s-off applied before the gingerbread update. In the case of phones with the preinstalled gingerbread ota it is not possible. Again, I am basically guessing but I believe this to be the case.
If it's true that you can downgrade and root, please correct me immediately lol

I think you're right, if you're S-OFF you can restore back to froyo with an RUU, but the whole point of having S-OFF is to be able to flash unofficial firmware, so if you're already on gingerbread and S-ON you're out of luck for now.
Has anyone confirmed that the XTC clip works for S-OFF on gingerbread?

dogshmog said:
No, you cannot downgrade to Froyo without rooting the phone.
No, there is no way to root the phone via software, YET.
Yes, it is likely that there will eventually be a software root for GB phones. It might be a while, because they just came out with froyo root a few weeks ago.
You could always get in on one of those XTC clip trading/group buy deals. I would just keep your phone for the time being, because honestly, there aren't any good ROM's yet. (this goes along with the fact that the phone just recently got rooted)
You're not really missing out on anything. My phone is rooted, and I am running the OTA debloated, not much different....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There aren't any good roms yet? Really I guess omgb omfgb miui and cm suck lol

dogshmog said:
No, you cannot downgrade to Froyo without rooting the phone.
No, there is no way to root the phone via software, YET.
Yes, it is likely that there will eventually be a software root for GB phones. It might be a while, because they just came out with froyo root a few weeks ago.
You could always get in on one of those XTC clip trading/group buy deals. I would just keep your phone for the time being, because honestly, there aren't any good ROM's yet. (this goes along with the fact that the phone just recently got rooted)
You're not really missing out on anything. My phone is rooted, and I am running the OTA debloated, not much different....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right there sent any 'food's roms there are 'great' roms. CM and MIUI are completely stable and considering the fact that software root was just released I would say that's a great sign of things to come. Plus we have some great sense 3.0 roms that are being worked on as we speak. Bottom line is if you want to harness the best of your phone's hardware you'll need s-off.
Software s-off is not yet possible but an xtc clip definitely works. It is a hardware unlock so it doesn't matter which rom you have installed as it does its process in hboot before the rom even loads. The reason software s-off for gb isn't possible yet is because the exploit alpharevx used is patched in gb. I'm sure they'll find a way sooner or later but patience is the key.
This post is not meant to demean anyone just putting nlmy thoughts out there. Oh and by the way this thread probably belongs in the general section
Sent from my ADR6350 using XDA Premium App

[Q] Should I flash radio? (Intermittent reception of SMS, poor call signal)

Greetings!
Thanks for stoppin' in. Hate to clutter the posts, but all my browsing/searching through the site thus far has lead me to older links that don't seem to answer my questions.
My history with my HTC Droid Incredible has always been a mix of positive and negative. One thing I've always been plagued by is a hit-or-miss experience with my call signal and messages.
Details:
-Incoming calls don't ring and go straight to voicemail (I use google voice).
-Many calls are plagued by static or generally poor signal.
-Text and image messages are often not received, or when they are, they often arrive hours after the fact (even the next day).
I've been told that flashing a ROM to a rooted device may include flashing the radio and that each ROM may include its own copy of a radio version. Is this true?
Is flashing the radio typically part of the ROM?
What version of the radio is considered best or most efficient for a VZW HTC Droid Incredible currently?
Is it worthwhile to flash the radio separately?
I'm currently on the beta ICS Miui rom and running smoothly aside from a small handful of buggy behaviors. I've seen these issues on stock as well as Cyanogen 7 and other MIUI ROMs. This is also my second (or third?) Incredible, having had it replaced under Warranty in the past and have typically always had some issues of this kind. Typically, I've just considered some of it to be part of the luck of the draw when using a cell phone.
Anywhos, thanks for the help, folks! If you need further details, please feel free to ask.

No custom roms come with radios that i have ever seen.
Flashing a raido may help your situation and it may not. As to which radio, it is really a matter of which one works best for you.
Here is a page with a bunch of radios that are all compatible with the incredible, even the ones labeled evo. http://dinc.does-it.net/radios

I go with the 07.07 radio (GB update version) it works fine, that or the newest Evo radio. 08.08 or 12.19. I live in a splotchy signal area and from playing with it, it seems the newest ones work best for me.

Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for the suggestions and input - I'll look into it as soon as I have a chance to get to a computer and such.
Looks like I need to re-flash my ROM as it is, given the alpha of Miui ICS I've been using isn't behaving very dependably at this time.
After I figure out a way to back things up and actually load into recovery (another mysterious issue has recently cropped up where I cannot get past HBOOT), I'll get a fresh ROM done and try another radio.
Anything I should be aware of regarding the radio with consideration to the process or eventually returning to stock if needed?
Kudos!
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA

General Update:
I tried a number of different solutions to my recently developed issue of being unable to boot recovery. I could get into HBOOT, but every time I tried selecting Recovery, it would default into another reboot of HBOOT. ROM Manager hasn't been any assistance either, as directing it to load into Recovery only brings up HBOOT.
On a whim, I decided to go ahead and try re-flashing Recovery (first option in ROM Manager), despite it showing that it was updated to the latest edition. I then attempted to reboot into Recovery right after and ...drum roll... it worked! Go figure. -_-;; ah well! Figured the suggestion of re-flashing the Recovery might help others looking for a solution.
I'm going to go ahead and see about wiping and flashing a new, stable ROM and then I'll jump into the radio suggestions above.
Thanks again!

Naming patterns?
bukithd said:
I go with the 07.07 radio (GB update version) it works fine, that or the newest Evo radio. 08.08 or 12.19. I live in a splotchy signal area and from playing with it, it seems the newest ones work best for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm looking at the link provided by the other person above and seeing interesting naming patterns. IIRC I'm currently on the 2.15.00.07.28.
Just want to make-sure I'm reading this right - is 2.15.10.07.07 newer than 2.15.00.11.19? I would guess so, plus I'm gathering that it was the version you suggested.
Further, what are the effects of using an EVO radio? Sorry for being such a noob, but I'm honestly curious!
Thanks.

Nothing wrong with using an evo radio. I use the 07.28 myself but its because it works best in my area.
Sent from my ADR6300 using xda premium

wigmuke said:
I'm looking at the link provided by the other person above and seeing interesting naming patterns. IIRC I'm currently on the 2.15.00.07.28.
Just want to make-sure I'm reading this right - is 2.15.10.07.07 newer than 2.15.00.11.19? I would guess so, plus I'm gathering that it was the version you suggested.
Further, what are the effects of using an EVO radio? Sorry for being such a noob, but I'm honestly curious!
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, 07.07 is newer than 11.19 radio. 11.19 was released in November of 2010, 07.07 was in July of 2011.

Thanks! Learn something new everyday.

I completed flashing the radio! Yay.
Didn't realize at first that it needed to be flashed via HBOOT (though I should've assumed such based on the name), rather than Recovery, but got it taken care of w/o incident.
Immediately, I've seen an increase in signal strength (max bands), and received a text msg that would've been sent earlier this morning. I'm looking forward to seeing further improvements!
Thanks everyone for your assistance.

i use the evo 08.08 radio and it works like a charm...i tried all the radios but i found this one works the best!

How are you guys flashing these radios to your incredible phone? I kept trying by booting into HBoot and renaming the radios to PB31IMG.ZIP but it won't flash it, because the Security mode is ON S-ON. I have the OTA GB update with 07.07 but I can't seem to turn S OFF

dAii7 said:
How are you guys flashing these radios to your incredible phone? I kept trying by booting into HBoot and renaming the radios to PB31IMG.ZIP but it won't flash it, because the Security mode is ON S-ON. I have the OTA GB update with 07.07 but I can't seem to turn S OFF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must have s-off to flash radios. One question, what is your hboot version? To attain s-off for:
.92 then follow this guide here
OR
1.02 then follow this guide here
The only experience I have and can reliably speak on is installing radios while s-off AND having hboot .92. I can't speak to the success rate of installing a radio with hboot 1.02, it's entirely different and unfamiliar to me.

I recently started using the 12.19 evo radio and it is much better regular signal wise although somehow 3g seems spottier