Develop Bugs

Bootloader for booting WM and Android off one device?

Hello,
like the title says i'd like to know if it's possible to create a bootloader or somewhat which is able to boot the standard OS from the device and a second OS from the memory card?
Let's say - if you switch the device on, you could choose whether to boot from the device (WM) or the memory card (Android).
Is it possible? Let's say - for the HTC HD2 for example?
What i found so far, is this and this article, as well as several threads in this forum. At least some really good dev's made it and ported Android to Touch HD for example. A bootloader would be needed in order to select, what to boot.
Thanks in advance.
Sincerely, nitrate

What currently happens is WM gets booted and then Haret gets run which acts as a bootloader.
You could streamline the process, and have haret run sooner, but given Android is currently not that stable I'd want to boot to WM myself.

l3v5y said:
but given Android is currently not that stable I'd want to boot to WM myself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What?? I switched to my Android phone from a WinMO and I am upset because I didn't do it sooner.

Android on non-android devices is a little unstable, native android devices are stable enough. As far as bootloaders go, what most would like to see is a way of getting Android off SD and into ROM, so that we could boot directly into Android without needing to involve WM at all.
However unless someone can rewrite something like the OpenHandHeld bootloader for use with HTC devices, Haret will be the only way to boot Android for the forseeable future, plus, with the lack of stability on non-android hardware, I like the option of having WM there, just to fall back on if needed.

zenity said:
Android on non-android devices is a little unstable, native android devices are stable enough. As far as bootloaders go, what most would like to see is a way of getting Android off SD and into ROM, so that we could boot directly into Android without needing to involve WM at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is what i want to know as well. A bootloader which let's you choose between booting WM from the devices' internal space or Android from the microSDHC-card.
And of course this bootloader should boot at first, just before WM does - kinda a boot menu of a Desktop PC which has Windows and Linux installed.

If it were possible to run a boot loader on your WM* device and dual boot there would be one major draw back (in my opinion); the architecture of these devices, without a storage card, uses the available memory for RAM and storage. Unlike your home PC that has specific Memory Chips and a Hard Disk Drive used for RAM and Storage specifically (if we ignore virtual memory for a minute) which means you can pack the disk space pretty much full and not effect the performance of the system.
Mobile Devices use some sort of Eeprom/solid state memory with XXXmb of memory. The more data files that you put inside the XXXmb of memory (in storage) means that the software you are running (WM6.5 + HTC Sense etc.) have less RAM to do their work, and the system is noticeably slower.
So back to the original topic, dual boot would suggest two OS residing in the devices ROM / XXXmb and a drastic reduction in performance, regardless of the OS WinMo or Android (linux)...
Saying that i have Android on my HD, using Haret.exe... I don't use it often and it is buggy - but the fact I've got it there shows that I'm still on the fence.

[Q] How to boot from Android first

Hello,
I need some help. Install its Android OS, but after he reset my Kaiser again charged WinMo OS. My question is whether it is possible to choose which OS to load first or with any program or edit the file to indicate to launch the first Android.
Sorry for my bad english :S Use Google translator

If you have installed Android to SD card and use Haret.exe then it will always reboot to WM.
You must install to nand if you wish to boot to Android only, which will wipe WM totally and replace it with Android.
The guide stickied at the top of the forum is a good tutorial in doing this

That does bring a good point to my mind though, we could create an exe that loads at startup of wm to auto load haret and startup if the user doesn't cancel in so many seconds (like grub). I keep WM on my phone so I can easily change my droid version and also I know everything works including opening office files (actually that's the biggest sticking point for me keeping it).

Thanks for support. Today I try to flash via NAND method.
Kind Regards
Lybomir

I flash my Kaiser with latest zImage-2.6.32-froyo-09-09-10_21 from here http://it029000.massey.ac.nz/vogue/files/?C=M;O=D and my device loading Android OS very slow, and big problem is : Phone go in screensaver and I try to unlock and screeen stay only in white light, no picture, no widgets... total block. Only solution is it a use Soft reset button or remove batery

Maybe you choose the wrong panel type?
I can read in your signature Duo Boot so I guess you installed onto the SD and use Haret to run Android.
If so, you have to edit the default.txt file locate in ANDBOOT folder and modify the value following htckaiser.panel_type.
You can specify 1, 2 or 3 (most Kaisers use panel type 2)
Wrong panel type may lead to awake problems or wrong colors...
The excessive slowness may be due to a slow SD. Which class is it? Use at least class 4 SD.
---- EDIT -----
In case you already flashed to NAND, to change the panel type you have to choose the right kernel (the kaisimg file) or you can edit the one you flashed following instructions and links you can find in #4 at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=680518
obviously you have to reflash the kaisimg.nbh but you don't need to flash Android again

I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english

dlink.bg said:
I try with 1,2 and 3 but every time show me a this problem, and now i run HaRET and in 2 from 3 times phone block and not response only Soft reset work, and if case phone load complete Android and again in screen seaver system not respond... ;(
I flash my phone with ext2 partition on my sd card/ class 4 8 GB SDHC/ and try with system and data on sdcard an again freez white screen/
Sorry for my bad english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May you try to install a different build and see if you fall into the same problem?
BTW, just after installing, don't start playing soon with the device: initially skip all settings (touch the android, don't set google account and so on) and leave the phone quiet for at least 10-15 minutes: some builds need to copy file to the cache and playing with the device may interfere with this operation leading to unpredictable effects...
Let we know...

It is slow because you installed it on sdcard.. both partition.. if you are on nand. Try install both partition on nand partition.. and try hawks soad rls 3 as me.. its fastest build for kaiser.. and I haven't ever problem with white screen ata awake.. try it in that haws soad ion build.. you can finf it in that forun.. just find it
Sent from my HTC Kaiser Ion using XDA App

I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!

dlink.bg said:
I find a solution! Later I post how find solution
Thanks on every in this thread to help me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're welcome
And I'm waiting to know

Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc

zenity said:
Don't suppose any of you have actually seen this thread?
Gen.Y DualBOOT v1.0.6.0
Should work fine on Kaiser, certainly works fine on other devices, such as Diamond, Blackstone etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Zenity... Yes, know that piece of software.
But as You have to boot WinMo (Yes, I Know, not all the services need to be running but system must be loaded and started, GUI must be running and so on) in order to DualBOOT can start, I can guess it's only a partial time-save... isn't it? Did You tried it?

Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.

zenity said:
Have not tried it on my Kaiser, since it is Nand flashed, but I think it is what was being asked for really, a way to boot either WM, or straight into Android on SD.
I don't think it will ever be possible for both WM and Android to co-exist on nand, since there simply is not enough room on the internal memory for both.
It is a time saver on other devices I have tried it on, Diamond, Blackstone, however since neither of these devices is nand-flashable this is more what Gen-Y's dual boot was intended for.
If it was possible to run WM from SD then we might be able to truly Dual Boot, in a similar fashion to Windows/Linux on PC, but as far as I know this is not possible either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, of course we haven't enough NAND to have both OSes!!!
What I was thinking to (but I'm a lot far to inspect WinMo booting sequence...) is if may be possible to wedge a sort of bootloader running BEFORE the OS loads or in the early booting process and letting we choose to boot WinMo (in NAND) of Android (on SD).
At present moment I've Android running from SD but kernel NANDed (I've got problems running out of NAND and no time to solve them so I'm using the solid build previously installed on SD) so Kaiser boots quickly... and this confirms it's possible boot SD Android without having to load WinMo or Haret. The more relevant matter I can see is that we have to find a way to wedge the bootloader without have to manual modify the WinMo ROM (virtualization is far from be considered on such devices...)
I suppose this is just a "mind exercise" (Sorry, I don't know how to correctly translate an Italian common saying...

Mind exercise describes it perfectly
Not sure why you would run out of space on nand, unless you are loading a lot of apps, and there are ways to run android that may help with that, such as apps2sd, or data on SD partition.
If you must have WM then your only choice would be using Haret.exe, and the most efficient way to dual boot we have at the moment is the Gen-Y solution, which is not ideal, but does offer at least part of what you seek.
The Android bootloader we use (tinboot.s) is not flexible enough to allow dual booting, but may have some information that may be of some use in this
tinboot thread
See what you think anyway

Sorry, I was not able to be clear... I apologize for my English...
When I said "I've got problems running out of NAND" I intended to say "I've got problems - very bad performances - when Android was running from NAND"!!!
Maybe we are a bit OT...
BTW, I was far from software developing for a long while and never developed low level software for Linux/Unix... but in the past I messed up with Z80, 65xx, 68K and x86 platforms's assembly
Recently I need to approach software developing again (but at a really different level...)
I'd like to have spare time to start again, as this world attracts me more. Maybe I'll give it a chance...
Let me understand... tinboot is actually used bootloader?
BTW, just to be clear... I don't need WinMo and I'm giving Android a chance to revive my Kaiser. I'm looking for a fast and stable build and actually I'm running VaniljEclair RLS11 (Yes, I know, I'd try your Polymod 2.1D build... )

Tinboot is the bootloader we use to get android in nand, not being a coder my understanding in limited, however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
I assumed you meant running out of space on nand, lol, i see now what you mean, no need to apologise for you english, it's fine

zenity said:
--- CUT ----
however I did think that thread may have useful information for anyone interested in the low level workings of out devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you're right... it's a useful starting point and I'll read it accurately...
Unluckly, I need a lot of spare time (and I don't, at present) to build a solid knowledge base and to start developing for Android.

yes there should be plenty of room for both oses on Nand, I still have over 90 mb on my wm6.5 nand install with come extra apps in there. So if you stripped down both oses you could easily fit them both on nand and still some space left. But then you need to have a boot loader that will be able to load both oses. I think I heard someone say somewhere they are using grub to boot android from nand, that can boot windows also with the right configuration, that would be where to start.

[Script][A2SD]Darktremor 2.7.5.3 Beta 04 [DesireZ] (01/29/2011)

Introducing...
Darktremor Apps2SD 2.7.5.3 Beta 04
Date of Release: January 29, 2011
Download Current Version
Instructions - Change Log - Commands - ROM List - Developer's Guide
Darktremor Apps2SD Fan Page ----
Darktremor Apps2SD Development Group
Are you installing Darktremor Apps2SD on your phone? Here are the instructions to help you: Facebook
Are you a developer wanting to include Darktremor Apps2SD in your latest ROM? Here is the Developer Guide: Facebook
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Update on Beta 4
It seems I'm getting mixed results with these betas. I'm not sure why this is occurring, some people have been able to get this working right while others have had a hard time with it.
Currently, I'm rebuilding the entire program. This takes a while because I have to figure out how to pack all these options into the program but make it small enough to where it will run correctly.
I will say that some of the beta features are coming back out...one of them is the search for a partition code. I suspect that code may be leading me into issues with certain platforms, so I'm going back to the 2.7.5.2 method of mounting (mmcblk0p2 or mmcblk1p2).
Also, parts of the code will use Busybox Ash (the only code that won't will be starta2sd, which will still use Bash for the time being). The startup code will definitely use Busybox Ash.
Until then, here are the links to the the last two betas and the last official release:
Version 2.7.5.3 Beta 04 - http://www.darktremor.info/files/a2sd/dtapps2sd-2.7.5.3-beta04-signed.zip
Version 2.7.5.3 Beta 03 - http://www.darktremor.info/files/a2sd/dtapps2sd-2.7.5.3-beta03-signed.zip
Version 2.7.5.2-1 - http://www.darktremor.info/files/a2sd/dtapps2sd-2.7.5.2-1-signed.zip
And, if you want past versions, you can view the repository: ftp://dtuser:[email protected] (ignore the smiley face...that's XDA doing that.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Beta 04 took longer than I expected to release. I have done major changes to the code:
1. New commands: convert-ext4 - This will convert your EXT3 partition into EXT4. Just a friendly reminder on this command: Not every rom supports EXT4, so it is possible to go into a boot loop if you switch roms. Use with caution.
2. Reworked convert-ext3 (convert-ext4 gets similar code)...now a flag file is set before the reboot (no conversion is done before the reboot). At load time, the conversion is performed. This takes longer in the reboot process and you may think your phone has locked up...wait about five minutes before doing anything with the phone.
3. Repair is rebuilt...now it uses existing commands to repair the setup (reinstall, remove, cachesd, cachepart, nocache, datasd, nodata). Definitely shrinks the code.
4. Added fix_permissions program to the package. This may help with Superuser issues when using the datasd feature. It is used in reinstall, remove, datasd and nodata.
5. a2sd install is back!!! Both a2sd install and a2sd reinstall do the exact same thing.
6. Dalvik heap code has been shrunk and now creates a file called dalvikheap. Actually, the code has been doing this all along (since about 2.7.5.2, I think), but I never put the code in to use the file.
7. Low Memory Killer code has also been shrunk and uses a file caled dtset_lowmem to set the low memory killer parameter.
8. Replaced Busybox PS function with Toolbox PS. The issue with Busybox PS is that it gives a false reading when I look for android.process.acore (which is the main program when the GUI starts up). If that is present, the program thinks you are trying to run Darktremor without any command line parameters. This was because Busybox would report the process was there when, in reality, it wasn't (validated this when my phone was boot looping.) Toolbox's PS reports the correct setting. This should fix the bootlooping issues some people are experiencing.
9. New commands: usedtbusybox and usedefaultbusybox - these commands may help in diagnosing issues that is may be related to the native Busybox on your rom. a2sd usedtbusybox will use the Busybox that is packaged with Darktremor. a2sd usedefaultbusybox will turn back on the scan behavior of the program introduced in Beta 03.
10. Support for Darktremor Apps2SD version 2.7 and earlier has been discontinued. To upgrade correctly from one of those versions, use version 2.7.5.3 Beta 03b or earlier.
11. Finally fixed stalled boot issues (or at least my tests with several roms says so.)
See the change log for additional details.
You will notice that if the program runs repair and finds a problem, it will correct the issue and reboot. You will see a second reboot when the dalvik-cache clears (this is to fix timing issues with CyanogenMod...I can't control that startup as well as I can other roms). This only happens if repair is ran or you flash a new rom (as repair will realign all data). If you are upgrading from a previous version of Darktremor, you should not see the reboots.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is Darktremor Apps2SD, a multipurpose program that primarily allows a user to execute applications created for the Android OS on their Secure Digital card (with the proper setup...more on that later). But, Darktremor Apps2SD is all about stability. The goal is to be able for all users of the Android OS to be able to take advantage of a method to run their applications from a secure digital card.
But just because the Darktremor Apps2SD is all about stability, doesn't mean it isn't packed with features:
- Move applications (both free and paid) to the Secure Digital card.
- Move Dalvik Cache to run either from your Secure Digital card or from your cache partition and clears the cache on demand.
- Boot Loop Protection: prevents the phone from boot looping in the event the SD card could not be mounted.
- Dalvik JIT for faster performance on Roms which support it.
- User selectable sizes for the Dalvik heap sizes, allowing a user to freely optimize their system.
- Activate a swap partition on your SD card and sets how often the swap partition is utilized.
- Automatically fixes configuration issues.
- Users can check the free space on their SD card and check the installation to make sure all is setup correctly.
- Runs ZipAlign on demand...this makes your programs load faster.
- Built in help system for easy reference of commands.
- All features can also be reversed without repartitioning your Secure Digital card.
- New logging features assists in troubleshooting issues.
- Commands to set the Low Memory Killer feature at boot time. Great for those people who are the "set it and forget it" type.
- And more...
Darktremor Apps2SD is not the same as Froyo Apps2SD. Froyo Apps2SD creates a secure folder on the FAT32 section of your SD card (this is the section that you see when you mount your phone to your computer) and stores the programs there. This is nice as you don't have to do anything special with the phone, but it isn't backwards compatible with older versions of Android (Cupcake, Donut, Eclair) and, because of the way Froyo works, older programs not designed for Froyo will automatically stay on your internal storage (unless you install a program that forces the move to your SD card).
Darktremor Apps2SD takes a different approach. Based on the original CyanogenMod works, Darktremor Apps2SD uses symbolic linking to force Android into moving your applications to the SD card. Because Android will not allow anything to be ran from the FAT32 partition on your SD card (and, in Froyo, it will only allow you to run programs from a special folder), Darktremor utilizes filesystems called EXT2, EXT3 and EXT4. Each one of these filesystems is native to Linux (the operating system running Android), which allows you to run programs from them (same as, say, a computer running Ubuntu). This method is completely compatible with all versions of Android, including Froyo. In fact, you can run both the Darktremor Apps2SD and Froyo Apps2SD at the same time.
Check out the list of Roms that either have Darktremor Apps2SD installed or are compatible with Darktremor Apps2SD. Click on the link labeled ROM List at the top of this message.

What?! Thanks darktremor, used this with my slide, will be testing and update this post asap with feedback.
Just curious though, is this meant for froyo based roms or should it work with gingerbread also?... guess I could test and see. Also do we still need to used the 'a2sd reinstall' and 'a2sd cachesd' commands to install it?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App

will this also work with sense roms?

g1junky said:
will this also work with sense roms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure, that's why we are testing it.

I can't get it to work on CM7 nightly 11 ( That I know of).
Used Clockworkmod to set up the ext partition (which doesn't specify which filesystem so i'm guessing either ext2 or ext3); set partition to 512mb and swap to 0mb.
Card partitioned successfully according to CWM; upon flashing the app2sd.zip the installation goes through all steps and posts that the install was successful even though the little check box by install successful is the only one that is starred. I noticed that during the install the script mounts /system and /data to write to them...not sure if that is affected by GB. I thought I read somewhere that this script was designed to check for ext4.
Hell, idk lol. I nandroided and went for it, these are my findings.
scratch that, there's a part two i missed that involves command line functions in the terminal emulator app. It looks like it's working to me.
Edit2: From what ive moved to /sd-ext so far everything seems to be working. Moved my apps, app data, dalvik cache and /data/data.
So far I havent experienced any data loss when moving /data/data.

There's no reason it shouldn't work with Gingerbread, other than the usual suspect of the rom doesn't launch scripts at boot or doesn't have EXT support.
As for the commands, you shouldn't have to rerun those commands if you are upgrading.
KCRic said:
What?! Thanks darktremor, used this with my slide, will be testing and update this post asap with feedback.
Just curious though, is this meant for froyo based roms or should it work with gingerbread also?... guess I could test and see. Also do we still need to used the 'a2sd reinstall' and 'a2sd cachesd' commands to install it?
Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes, it should. I'm running a Sense UI rom on my Evo and it has 2.7.5.3 Beta 02.
g1junky said:
will this also work with sense roms?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I can honestly say that so far everything seems to be working well on my end. Dropped ~100megs of internal space usage and sent it to the sd.
The phone does seem a bit snappier, does this style of app2sd stress the card more than usual?

hmm.
I'm running cm 7 nightly 11, set 512mb, 0mb swap and I think I got everything right. Strangely enough, I keep getting reboots every time i run a command in terminal.
edit: a2sd command*

SWEEET..........
I too can confirm that this works with CM7 Nightly "Gingerbread" sweet, installed the zip file from recovery, QUICK NOTE: Had to mount /system and mount /data in recovery before installing the zip file from sdcard. This is great apps2ext that works with any rom. Now in my titanium back ups it shows three seperate storge locations: internal, SD card and SDCard(a2sd) plus it restored apps I previously had on my ext.2 partition from when I was running Enoms Rom....sweeeeeet.
Also dont forget to run the command in adb shell:
Code:
/system/bin/a2sd cachesd
if you want to move dalvik cache to sd.
UPDATE: internal memory free reads out of 1.37GB Avail. there is 1.28GB FREE and Ive got 77 apps installed right now and about too install a lot more..........
FYI im runnning a 16gb class 10 sd card with a 1024mb ext.2 partition

Most of the code is similar to the previous version. I think the snappiness may be that your SD card is faster than internal storage.
stevencpoynter said:
I can honestly say that so far everything seems to be working well on my end. Dropped ~100megs of internal space usage and sent it to the sd.
The phone does seem a bit snappier, does this style of app2sd stress the card more than usual?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Did you type su before you run an a2sd command?
zarskee seven nine said:
I'm running cm 7 nightly 11, set 512mb, 0mb swap and I think I got everything right. Strangely enough, I keep getting reboots every time i run a command in terminal.
edit: a2sd command*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Just so everyone knows (may want to add this to the OP you know, so you don't get a million ?'s) these are the commands you HAVE to enter after flashing it in recovery.
Code:
su [ENTER]
cd /system/bin [ENTER]
sh a2sd cachesd [ENTER]
Your phone will reboot and will take a bit to complete - be patient because it's moving all your apps and the dalvik cache.
Notes: Your memory will still drop (not by much) over time because the apps will still store cached memory on the phone. To deal with this use the 'datasd' command to move that info to the sdcard also. Also, use the 'a2sd help' command to find all the functions you can perform with this. If you've used this before then all of this is irrelevant

Was so excited about this , It worked perfectly on CM7 nightly builds but when I went to update the Nightly build from 11 to 12, problems, keep getting reboot, since all my apps including titanium were on EXT, I could not access them, so the modification didn't stick from build to build, had to full data wipe, so I guess I'll be coming back to this when CM7 stable is realeased.

Yah I did. It's a beta on a nightly rom...I'm not surprised that something would be weird. I know it worked sending my dalvik cache to sd for sure, but as far as my apps being reinstalled on sd..im not sure. I followed the directions to the t and i know i didnt skip steps cause i used to use this on my nexus one

joemm said:
Was so excited about this , It worked perfectly on CM7 nightly builds but when I went to update the Nightly build from 11 to 12, problems, keep getting reboot, since all my apps including titanium were on EXT, I could not access them, so the modification didn't stick from build to build, had to full data wipe, so I guess I'll be coming back to this when CM7 stable is realeased.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may have to remove the script in terminal, reinstall the rom than rerun the zip script. I think that should work if you want to keep using this on nightlies

If you change roms (including moving between different nightly builds), you will need to reflash Darktremor.
The only time you don't have to do that is if Darktremor is already added on the rom you are loading. Since CM7 doesn't have Darktremor installed as part of its package, you'll have to reflash each time you change nightly builds.
If you still don't have access to your programs, type a2sd reinstall
My apologies.
zarskee seven nine said:
You may have to remove the script in terminal, reinstall the rom than rerun the zip script. I think that should work if you want to keep using this on nightlies
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

after several days nothing new in this android development section, today i saw something new here, keep your good work, gonna try it when i get home

This is about three months overdue. Unfortunately, job, family and the holiday season got the best of me.
fajarep said:
after several days nothing new in this android development section, today i saw something new here, keep your good work, gonna try it when i get home
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

For me it seems that it doesn't stick. I tried it with cm7, flashed it in recovery and when I booted up to run the commands in terminal they weren't there. No a2sd at all. Guess I could shove all in the ROM prior to flashing and see if that works.

Installing Android without SD, to test NAND?

Is it possible to install Android on Kaiser without SD? Has anyone investigated bundling the /system partition with tinboot so the whole thing is installed with a single KAISIMG?
I ask because I have one Kaiser whose SD reader is broken. If I could install more than a kernel, I could try risky changes to fix the NAND driver. If I brick the phone or kill its flash, it's no big loss.

No, you can't do it now, maybe i can suggest you to look after a method do dump the nand after install and use it as kaiser image

Exactly what I was thinking, but how to negotiate the NAND into the proper size partitions? Write kernel for rom and hope you get the sizes right, or make a kernel that readjusts /system size based on install and leave remainder for /data?

PoXFreak said:
Exactly what I was thinking, but how to negotiate the NAND into the proper size partitions? Write kernel for rom and hope you get the sizes right, or make a kernel that readjusts /system size based on install and leave remainder for /data?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think thats l1q1d idea... perhaps a complete nand dump, and reflash it to another kaiser.
The kernel and partitions must be configures before the dump...

I do intend to try, but have been distracted by Scoot's very stable kernel, and a very nice pre-beta that I'm testing on my HTC Wizards, Gandalf and Radagast.

This is possible, in fact there was a time where an empty img file was being incorporated into the NBH where on a windows NBH the system files would normally be copied. A windows NBH consists of a number of parts, I can't remember what they are all called right now, but they can all be merged using NBHmerge. I can't give you specific instructions but there's no reason why it can't be done, not sure it'll be much fun though!

n2rjt said:
I do intend to try, but have been distracted by Scoot's very stable kernel, and a very nice pre-beta that I'm testing on my HTC Wizards, Gandalf and Radagast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
pre-beta that you're testing on HTC What ??

daedric said:
pre-beta that you're testing on HTC What ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC Wizard. I have two of them, which I have named Radagast and Gandalf. It's my all-time favorite smartphone, although it is obviously even more obsolete than the Kaiser. I use one of them as my primary phone whenever Android is giving me fits. Right now I'm testing H3r7 beta 2 preview where the cook has adeptly squeezed WM6.5 into a tiny, fast, stable package.

If I knew that I wouldn't have given my Wizard away...
I thought Ham3r was finished when he hit 6.1 but I stand corrected...pfft.

help androidinstall.tgz
please share for me : file androidinstall.tgz 2.1 or 2.2 but must run wifi and 3G.
Send for me by: [email protected] thanks i come from VietNam

I think with the proper memory map Android could be installed via FrankenKaiser or something of that sort. Something that addresses the NAND directly through OEMSBL, bypassing the need for a HardSPL. Of course the phone would have to be CID unlocked to do this, but I think it's possible to install via CustomRUU if the mapping was done beforehand.
I have read somewhere that NAND marked as bad in the map still gets "written" to, meaning whatever is supposed to go there is put there and never read. Once unmarked the written info comes back, but that requires a full format anyway.
I say very possible...

I have stopped trying to do this, but wanted to record my latest thoughts in case someone reads this in the future.
I think the best way to install Android on a Kaiser that can't read its sdcard is to edit the initrd then use recovery mode:
* install adbd so it gets started in recovery mode
* allow the menu when sdcard is not installed
* change scripts to look for /data/andboot
* change recovery mode to mount /data partition to usb
Then, of course, you boot the kernel, use the menu, enter recovery mode, transfer androidinstall.tgz and androidupdate.tgz to /data/andboot, then install system, install updates, clear data, and run. If something doesn't work, adb shell or adb push can help.
I think it's too much work to be worth it on this old phone.

Still only Android virtual roms possible for TP2 within Windows ?

It's been a while since i've been here, still work with the old Energy Rom in WM6.5 from June
Last time I visited this forum, they mentionned the TP2 would never be able to run Android.
Now I see there is an Android section here and I tested the latest Thunderbolt_V1 but that's a rom that runs into windows with a virtual machine.
Isn't it still possible to boot a 100% Android rom?
Somebody must find some tweaks and tricks, even if it's to heavy maybe a light-Android

No one is running android in a virtual machine on their TP2. Winmo is used to initialize hardware before xdandroid boots (don't know anything about thunderbolt, but I haven't heard good things about tiad, so maybe that wasn't your best bet for a first run). I hear there are some super unobtrusive light-weight winmo roms that will boot up without loading all the interface stuff and then auto boot to xdandroid. But it's still going to be kind of slow because it's a hack running off the sd card and optimization is a trial and error sort of thing by generous volunteers here.
As far as a real nand build, some folks are working on it, I mostly see activity at ppcgeeks. I hear it's not ready for primetime. It's possible it might never be, though I wouldn't want to discourage the kind souls plugging away at it. Best way to get it IMO is to hit some donate links for the people working on it.

Hi,
android doesn't run off a virtual machine, HaRET is a program that kicks winmo from memory, and initializes linux. Any changes you make in android are saved on real partitions, not containers or such, as is used in virtual machines, and changes are also permanent. Basically your external sd card's 3 ext2 partitions mimic the setup that is inside a normal android phone.
Thunderbolt v1 so far is a great rom for me (the first fully functioning one; because of that, android now my daily os), and its installed on your SD card. If you want an internal android os, try tiad8's NAND builds on his website, he has one or two versions (at your own risk, they're VERY experimental AFAIK).

waltibaba said:
Hi,
android doesn't run off a virtual machine, HaRET is a program that kicks winmo from memory, and initializes linux. Any changes you make in android are saved on real partitions, not containers or such, as is used in virtual machines, and changes are also permanent. Basically your external sd card's 3 ext2 partitions mimic the setup that is inside a normal android phone.
Thunderbolt v1 so far is a great rom for me (the first fully functioning one; because of that, android now my daily os), and its installed on your SD card. If you want an internal android os, try tiad8's NAND builds on his website, he has one or two versions (at your own risk, they're VERY experimental AFAIK).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please don't direct people to other websites. NAND development started here on the TP2. He's only stolen the work of the brilliant devs here, and branded it as his own.
Did you somehow miss this thread?
NAND Testing - 05-25 Update: New LK, Recovery.img, Kernel Updates through Recovery
tiad8 is a hack and a fraud, there is the proof.

andriod for tp2 isn,t virtual it,s real and i advise you not to install it on your phone as you don't know that it is virtual and then you come and say xda briked my phone