Hey guys,
Did anyone order the carbon fiber case? I want to know if it's that rubberized material, like the battery cover, G1, etc...
The one from Verizon?
If so, I have it, and its a hard case, not rubberized
i think he meant the finish. is it slick on the back or rubberized?
Now that I feel it again, it is a rubber back, but a very thin rubber. I can press my fingernail into it and it makes an impression. It feels more like plastic then rubber though. The carbon fiber design is imprinted in the rubber.
Just to add my two cents, the quality of the case is pretty good. As mentioned before, it's more of a plastic feel. Hard rubber or softer plastic.
The case snaps together very securely and has plenty of room for the hdmi/usb/headphone jack.
I've got bigger fingers so the physical buttons on the side are a little difficult to press, but you can get used to it. Also, when touching the extreme sides of the screen, the case gets in the way a little.
All things said, I'd recommend the case.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Yes, the case is cut very well and is secure when snapped into place
The x will not fit in the car dock with this case. The hard plastic case is an extremely tight squeeze but will work. I like how the carbon imitation case looks and feels. My two cents....
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
I got one a couple of days ago. To me it seems more like some sort of vinyl than rubber or hard plastic. It's got an ok grip, but isn't so grippy that it'll catch my pocket when I take it out, like actual rubber cases I used previously on iphones.
One thing I thought was funny, though... it's obviously not made of carbon fiber and that the pattern has just been stamped or molded. But, the box says "carbon fiber" and not "carbon fiber style" It actually said it in two places, I think. It'd be like something being labeled "leather" when it's actually leatherette or PVC. Not complaining, just think it's amusing.
It is carbon fiber, its just not embedded in the normal gel people are used to seeing on cars. Its a layer that is over a plastic case. Do you know how much it would cost to produce a true cf case or even a dry carbon fiber case? I know someone who works with composites and its a very tedious job, not to mention not very forgiving.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
There is a full carbon fiber case out there, but its not cheap. It'll set you back $119 just for the case.
Carbon Fiber also does not protect the phone from drops and scratches easily. I imagine that it's really good at not not breaking though, so if you get a bit of roid rage and want to take it out on your phone case, this is the one to get!
What is it called?????
Related
I'm curious if there is a stiffer/stronger silicone case out there. I had a hard silicone case for my ipod touch and miss it. The htc silicone case is just to flimsy and I'm not wanting a hard case never had any luck with them
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
What you want is a TPU case. It's a different material than silicon, somewhat stiffer and tighter fitting (maybe a bit less shock absorbent?), but pretty much superior in every respect imo... It's still a soft case tho, you still stretch it around the EVO to fit it in and whatnot, and you could bend it if you wanted (only difference is it snaps back to it's original shape much quicker than silicon).
It seems to have more grip on your hand but it slides out of your pocket a lot easier, a LOT easier, and unlike silicon cases it attracts almost no dust and lint whatsoever! My HTC/OEM silicon case (bought at the Sprint store) attracted so much lint and crap in my pocket that within a day of cleaning it all up I'd have this crusty line of crap all around the edges, it was pretty irritating. None of that w/my TPU case, at all!
The TPU cases also feel a lot slimmer on your hand even tho they're not that much thinner than the silicon one, they're still thick enough so that the camera is recessed below it and fully protected (most of them are anyway, there's some thinner ones)... I guess part of the reason they feel more svelte is that the edges are more rounded off and not as squre-ish as the HTC silicon one.
Button press feel is also much better w/these, probably because of the tighter fit, they actually improve the handling of the power button if you ask me. The side edges of these cases don't move at all unless you pull on it tightly, totally different feel compared to the silicon ones which loosen up and from just swiping your finger across the screen you can end up stretching the edge out.
In short, they're just superior in every way, just get one and you'll thank me later. All you have to do is choose one of the different ones out there based on aesthetics...
Amzer sells one w/an Argyle pattern on the back, that's what I've got right now, it's available on Amazon and off Amzer's site for around the same price ($9-10), it's semi-translucent and the pattern is actually a lot more subdued and doesn't stand out nearly as much as you'd think from looking at the online pics. I actually like the pattern, if anything I'd say the shade of the skin isn't quite smoked/black, it has a slight hint of amber/brown...
That's the only thing that bothers me about it. I'm gonna be ordering a plain black one along w/a red one from DCMugen on Ebay, he's selling some made by Epik that look to be the exact same thing w/o the Argyle pattern, and they're cheaper to boot ($3.50, or $6.50 for two). I can get you a link if you can't find 'em... I think they have 'em in blue and clear and a few other colors too.
Just don't fall for the cheap off-brand Argyle ones on Ebay, you can tell them apart easily because unlike the two I've mentioned those have one large cutout for the camera/LED/speaker, whereas these other ones have individual cutouts and from what I've read they're a bit thicker. Those other Ebay ones also have a large silly cutout for the fingernail hole on the battery lid that you use to pry it off, seems like a goof on the mold/design.
If you don't care for the Argyle pattern on the Amzer one I'd get the Epik ones from DCMugen, I think the colors/tint on those are closer to the photos. Here's a link to the red one, you can click on the seller for the other colors and the package pricing for two or whatever.
If you're not into the translucent look of either of those TPU cases you can always grab the matte black one at www.evocases.net There's a thread for those right here at XDA where misticjeff has even thrown in a $1 code discount for XDA members. The sides/front are still glossy (perhaps a bit glossier than the translucent ones, judging by the photos), back's matte. The frost one is no longer available.
On the thread about those some people were complaining about the feel of the power button, seems it's not as great as the Amzer/Epik ones, some people resorted to sticking a lil' bit of tape in between to make it easier to press... One thing the evocases.net does have going for it is the slightly raised ring around the camera, which I guess might protect it more in the long run... Even tho they're all thick enough that the lens is recessed (as well as the screen obviously).
My 2 cents, hope it helps... I'm loving the feel of these TPU cases tho, I'll probably never get a silicon case for a phone again.
Whew, that second post got pretty long... A picture or two would've made it easier to explain I guess. Lemme know if you're interested in the Argyle one and I can grab my camera and post some pics of how it really looks, there doesn't seem to be many pictures out there of the actual case ON the phone (for either of them really).
I was gonna wait 'till I had the Epik ones so I could photograph them all side by side but I can take pics of the Amzer Argyle one in advance and post 'em up. Like I said, I actually dig the Argyle pattern because it's pretty subdued, it's more of an etch or a shade (it actually feels like an etch on the inside of the case), rather than a print. The only thing that bothers me about it is the overall shade/tint.
I probably wouldn't even be ordering the Epik one if I wasn't also ordering some of those clear battery doors that are about to go on sale... I think those plain Epik cases w/the clear battery door will look very slick.
Best buy might have what you are looking for. My only gripe is the buttons feel hard to push. But give it a shot (most BB will let you try on the case) it might be what you are looking for.
Seidio Innocase Active Cased - Limited Edition
After looking around the net for some time I bought the Seido Innocase Active Limited Edition.
Can't post a link but search Amazon for the title in my thread.
It's a semi-hard silicon cover with a siliconized hard plastic that exo-skeleton. Perfect combo in my opinion. My one complaint is that the edges on the hard plastic piece have the siliconized coating peeling off a little but I think I may have gotten a defective unit as I haven't seen anyone else complaining about it yet.
Also got the ClearTouch screen cover anti-glare version. I've had this cover on a few phones and it's also the best for reducing glare and fingerprints while maintaining clarity. Kinda hard to install without getting dust underneath but once you get it on right it looks and feels great. ClearTouch is sold by boxwave and is on Amazon.
Hybrid Flexi Skin Cover
Has anyone tried the Hybrid Flexi Skin cover from Daydeal.com? I'm also looking for a tighter case than my OEM silicone skin I got from Sprint. I just don't like the way the sides become flimsy and flaps off the phone when I swipe my screen. I'm looking at this case:
Hybrid Flexi Skin Cover for HTC EVO 4G, Honeycomb (Smoke & Clear)
Hybrid Flexi Skin Cover for HTC EVO 4G is a combination back cover consisting of a semi-hard, semi-soft Thermoplastic Polyurethane (TPU) edge with a smooth hard back.
* Protects the side edges and back of your EVO 4G
* Hybrid cover consisting of a semi-hard, semi-soft TPU edge and a smooth hard back
* Stylish glossy TPU edge provides shock-absorbing protection
* Lightweight TPU is resistant to taring, stretching and deforming
* Compatible with HTC EVO 4G
Sorry, I'm a newbie and can't post links, yet. I don't know if the TPU edges would solve the flapping problem, since it's supposed to be firmer & tighter. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hiway said:
Has anyone tried the Hybrid Flexi Skin cover from Daydeal.com? I'm also looking for a tighter case than my OEM silicone skin I got from Sprint. I just don't like the way the sides become flimsy and flaps off the phone when I swipe my screen. I'm looking at this case:
Hybrid Flexi Skin Cover for HTC EVO 4G, Honeycomb (Smoke & Clear)
Hybrid Flexi Skin Cover for HTC EVO 4G is a combination back cover consisting of a semi-hard, semi-soft Thermoplastic Polyurethane (TPU) edge with a smooth hard back.
...
Sorry, I'm a newbie and can't post links, yet. I don't know if the TPU edges would solve the flapping problem, since it's supposed to be firmer & tighter. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.
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As I said in my previous post, TPU rocks as a material for cases/skins... I don't blame ya for skipping right over it tho.
TPU >>>>>> silicon
TPU doesn't attract dust at all, it's much tighter/rigid so the side edges don't flop out at all, but it's still got plenty of give (so it'll absorb a fall/bump), you could bend 'em in half if you wanted... Only difference is it'll snap back into form in a second unlike silicon which will probably just bounce around in an arc.
TPU also seems just as grippy on your hand, if not more so, but it slides in and out of pockets way way easier, and most of the TPU cases I've seen feel way more svelte in the hand than the OEM/HTC silicon scene... Probably in part because they're a tad thinner, probably also because the edges are more rounded off and not as blocky. Physically I'm sure it isn't a huge difference, but it sure feels like it.
This thread has some further discussion on TPU cases, it's really hard to judge them based on pictures alone, I was very pleasantly surprised with mine.
So I tried googling the title you posted and came up with this, only place I could find it at. Looks pretty interesting, seems the back is hard plastic and the edges are TPU. If you dig that honeycomb pattern I'd say go for it...
Altho if it's actual plastic it might get scratched up over time Looks like it's also clear/translucent, clear plastic usually shows every single flaw... A plain TPU case wouldn't have that issue. I'm just not seeing the advantage over 100% TPU, which are also like $3.50 vs $14 (look for DCMugen's Epik/TPU cases on Ebay).
OTOH that red back + black edges on the video in the link I pasted before looks pretty sweet... The rest look kinda gaudy imo ('cept for the all black) but red/black looks really different, I like it.
P.S. This is the Honeycomb (Smoke & Red) combination I was alluding to... There's also Honeycomb (Smoke & Smoke) and plain Black & Smoke (no honeycomb pattern, solid black sides). The red is the most distinct imo, those are all probably better in the long run than the clear back (less forgiving).
Jayr00 said:
Kinda hard to install without getting dust underneath but once you get it on right it looks and feels great. ClearTouch is sold by boxwave and is on Amazon.
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Tip for the next time you gotta install a screen protector and its the hard type: get some scotch tape, put it on the non adhesive side of the screen protector so you can peel it back without touching anything, and then grab another piece of tape and start taping the dust out of the screen or adhesive side of the protector and you'll be dust free in no time. Friends came over cuz they all needed new protectors and i did 4 phones in 20 minutes.
Hybrid Flexi Case
I got my new case today....went with the Smoke & Smoke combo. This case is awesome, I HIGHLY recommend it. the sides don't flap and it has a really tight fit and seems really durable. Got it off of EBay for about $8.50 ($4.50 for case + $4.00 shipping/handling) from Daydeal as opposed to going to their site and paying $13.99.
Impulses said:
P.S. This is the Honeycomb (Smoke & Red) combination I was alluding to... There's also Honeycomb (Smoke & Smoke) and plain Black & Smoke (no honeycomb pattern, solid black sides). The red is the most distinct imo, those are all probably better in the long run than the clear back (less forgiving).
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I went with the smoke on smoke honeycomb case and got it today. It's darker so I think it'll hide any scratching that my occur on the backing. I agree with you on the clear backs when I first saw them, but the back seems scratch resistant (only time will tell)
Hiway said:
I got my new case today....went with the Smoke & Smoke combo. This case is awesome, I HIGHLY recommend it. the sides don't flap and it has a really tight fit and seems really durable. Got it off of EBay for about $8.50 ($4.50 for case + $4.00 shipping/handling) from Daydeal as opposed to going to their site and paying $13.99.
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If possible can you please post pics? Im interested in this case but have only seen Daydeal's review on it.
Anyone know if there is a decent Plastic type case for our T989? I'm looking for something that will emulate the back cover feel. I don't like silicone cases and really looking for something that will protect the phone but have basically the same feel that it does right now.
Basically I want it to take some punishment but be able to take it out of my pocket easilly like it does now.
The diztronic TPU cases seem to fit your criteria. I have one and like it. It's not silicon and stays on quite firmly. I've dropped my phone many times with no dings or scratches. Without a case, the t989 actually is too thin sometimes.
i got a smoke color TPU from ebay and its smooth and glossy like the back cover - doesnt feel too rubbery or too much like plastic
Try this case i bought on amazon. its not very expensive and it has a hard plastic back but the sides are TPU material. the case feels great on my phone and its very snug. it can surely take a beating and it doesnt add much bulk to the phone. i recommend it.
only downside is that the power and volume buttons are not cut out but everything else is.
i still highly recommend it. if you look under the sellers page and type t989 in the search bar it will give you more of the same case in different colors.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006LPARZG/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00
musicguy99 said:
The diztronic TPU cases seem to fit your criteria. I have one and like it. It's not silicon and stays on quite firmly. I've dropped my phone many times with no dings or scratches. Without a case, the t989 actually is too thin sometimes.
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I agree, I've been using the Diztronic case on my Galaxy S2 and I am very happy with it.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
Has anyone purchased a case like this? I am assuming that it is a TPU case with an aluminum bezel thingy around the outside. I would like to see it on a phone to see how much thicker it makes the phone (it looks to be a very thin alternative to a full aluminum bezel). I also am curious as to if it is actually TPU or another material. Thoughts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Samsun...ccessories&hash=item231edaa84b#ht_1465wt_1071
P.S. It is also fairly cheap.
It doesnt mention that its TPU.
To me, it looks like a plastic back. I think that if it fell, the clips would break that hold the back to the aluminum.
ImARaptor said:
Has anyone purchased a case like this? I am assuming that it is a TPU case with an aluminum bezel thingy around the outside. I would like to see it on a phone to see how much thicker it makes the phone (it looks to be a very thin alternative to a full aluminum bezel). I also am curious as to if it is actually TPU or another material. Thoughts?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blue-Samsun...ccessories&hash=item231edaa84b#ht_1465wt_1071
P.S. It is also fairly cheap.
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looks like aluminum and polycarbonate to me, I doubt it's TPU. TPU isn't brittle enough to clip like that, which is why you don't see many TPU cases for slider phones.
That would be sweet though if it were made with TPU along the back with that bezel. Looks nice.
Wond3r said:
I think that if it fell, the clips would break that hold the back to the aluminum.
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That was my first thought as well!
Sent from my phone. Prepare for atrocious Swype typos.
I'm curious as to current thoughts on the whole rubber v plastic cases debate. I'd like to go with a rubber case personally as I like the feel and generally think they are less intrusive, but at the end of the day, I'm buying a case for protection over anything else.
What is the current thoughts in 2013 about case types, and who is the leading brand? Is otter boxes still way ahead of most of the competition?
i used otterbox defender for 10 months and switched over to an aluminum bumper on my note 2, which is slightly better because of the bulk
twistededge said:
I'm curious as to current thoughts on the whole rubber v plastic cases debate. I'd like to go with a rubber case personally as I like the feel and generally think they are less intrusive, but at the end of the day, I'm buying a case for protection over anything else.
What is the current thoughts in 2013 about case types, and who is the leading brand? Is otter boxes still way ahead of most of the competition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rubber. always rubber.
Actually, a hybrid with fused rubber/plastic is a much better alternative; like UAG cases.
one rubber case saved my phone more times, for 1$ una tantum
very good!
:good:
I usually get cases made of flexible plastic, but hard plastic mixed with rubber is pretty awesome too, like an otterbox
I would go with rubber. Seems to offer better shock protection
Rubber for me too.
I prefer to feel the original cover of the phone. However, as it may fall anyhow i've just ordered a plastic crystal cover to protect it without losing the view of the beautiful back of my white Nexus 5.
rubber ftw
more elastic i think
rubber and plastic
Rubber for me too.
Rubber for me too.
Some rubber cases are pretty much dust magnets so beware of those. Other than that, I'd generally still stick with rubber over plastic mainly because I feel that it absorbs shock/ fall damage a lot better than plastic. With plastic, feels more like crack on impulse. I have an Otterbox Defender and I dropped my phone while holding the door for someone and well, phone was still functioning so glad Otterbox worked. However, i haven't tried any other brands.
I did read about other phone case makers using fancy names like silicone, TPU, and what not. No clue what they are, but would be interesting to see an actual in-depth review of that.
What are some good cases for the phone?
I really like my Nillkin Natural TPU case. there are a couple of other threads with cases and pics.
that clear right? doesn't that interfere with flash when taking pictures?
Nilkin Frosted Shield case recommended.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/20134158223...49&var=500540193931&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
I have both of these cases as well, and they are both excellent choices. I wish the clear case was a tad thicker, but I like that my phone's back cover is viewable through the clear case (so pretty!) and it doesn't add extra bulk.
Unlike some silicon cases, it has a smooth finish that won't stick to your pocket (it also might slide out of your hand easily enough, if your hand is damp).
There is a cutout for the flash, so I've not noticed any issues with it. The covers for the headphone jack and usb connector are a nice touch as well, but the usb cover on mine seems to not want to sit completely flush. Not a huge deal to me, even with OCD.
I like that the clear case covers the bottom edge of the phone, whereas the matte case leaves it exposed. The bottom edge of my phone already seems to have some wear because of the exposure.
That said, I really do like the feel and color of the matte case (I have red), and it fits a little more snugly that the clear case, IMHO.
I'd like to see a heavier duty case, something like a Griffin Survivor style case with 2-part rubber and hard plastic component. Unfortunately for now, the Nillikin cases aren't going to afford your phone much more than scratch protection but they are nice to hold and are better than nothing! Definitely pair with a nice tempered glass screen protector, if you can find one that fits well, that is...
bgibson72 said:
I have both of these cases as well, and they are both excellent choices. I wish the clear case was a tad thicker, but I like that my phone's back cover is viewable through the clear case (so pretty!) and it doesn't add extra bulk.
Unlike some silicon cases, it has a smooth finish that won't stick to your pocket (it also might slide out of your hand easily enough, if your hand is damp).
There is a cutout for the flash, so I've not noticed any issues with it. The covers for the headphone jack and usb connector are a nice touch as well, but the usb cover on mine seems to not want to sit completely flush. Not a huge deal to me, even with OCD.
I like that the clear case covers the bottom edge of the phone, whereas the matte case leaves it exposed. The bottom edge of my phone already seems to have some wear because of the exposure.
That said, I really do like the feel and color of the matte case (I have red), and it fits a little more snugly that the clear case, IMHO.
I'd like to see a heavier duty case, something like a Griffin Survivor style case with 2-part rubber and hard plastic component. Unfortunately for now, the Nillikin cases aren't going to afford your phone much more than scratch protection but they are nice to hold and are better than nothing! Definitely pair with a nice tempered glass screen protector, if you can find one that fits well, that is...
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Yeah, I'm waiting for a decent rubber-hard plastic case to come out for me to use. A cheaper one should hold till then.
nekrosoft13 said:
What are some good cases for the phone?
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Window case relly a good choice!
The Rearth Ringke Fusion case is very good, fits well, I find it comfortable and of a durable material. Helps with the power button as the case plastic makes it pop out a bit and it can be pressed with a lot of ease.
Here is the link if you want to see it.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ZenFone-5-5-Inch-Case/dp/B00XNSIYTU
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using XDA Free mobile app
zixen15 said:
The Rearth Ringke Fusion case is very good, fits well, I find it comfortable and of a durable material. Helps with the power button as the case plastic makes it pop out a bit and it can be pressed with a lot of ease.
Here is the link if you want to see it.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ZenFone-5-5-Inch-Case/dp/B00XNSIYTU
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using XDA Free mobile app
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Click to collapse
I've read there are issues with the Rearth Ringke Fusion case and the camera's flash. Have you experienced problems in that area?
The Ringke clear case creates a nasty halo on photos whenever you use the flash --- much worse than the Nilkin (halo is barely visible). I still prefer it over the Nilkin case because it feels much sturdier: like it'll actually protect my phone *if* I drop it. It doesn't have a USB port cover on it unlike the Nilkin, though.
The Nilkin case just feels too flimsy for my tastes. I also don't use the flash on mobile phones anyway... most of them are too harsh.
If you really want a subtle highlight when taking photos, have someone else use their mobile's torch app to shine on your subjects
I have this case and it's good. I did a review of it too. Very sturdy and not glossy so firm in hand. Comes with a screen protector $10 buck is a great deal!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00S0BBFTQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
If you want a wallet case try this. $3.99 with promo code ASUSZEN2. I purchase one myself too.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00Y14WRCU?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=od_aui_detailpages00
Good luck.
---------- Post added at 10:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 AM ----------
allstar21369 said:
I've read there are issues with the Rearth Ringke Fusion case and the camera's flash. Have you experienced problems in that area?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not a heavy camera user, so I have not tried to see if there is any difference. I have used the camera with no problem. I am very confortable with it, it does its job how it should, protects the phone.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using XDA Free mobile app
I am happy with the nilkin, actually dropped two times and it did its job (thankfully Murphy played nice on me and it always fell on a corner, if it would drop dead flat, screen first, I am sure it would be dead). The back texture helps holding it in my hand, plastic rear cover of 550 is very very slippery also not much bulkier than stock (already bulky and heavy phone).
Litoven said:
I am happy with the nilkin, actually dropped two times and it did its job (thankfully Murphy played nice on me and it always fell on a corner, if it would drop dead flat, screen first, I am sure it would be dead). The back texture helps holding it in my hand, plastic rear cover of 550 is very very slippery also not much bulkier than stock (already bulky and heavy phone).
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The nillkin tpu transparent case is amazing so if anyone is looking to buy a good case for Zenfone then its worth a try.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD
As someone who requires a lanyard to keep the phone from flying away while in the pocket ...
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/400900339275
... I can always find a solution.
Sure, it doesn't protect the device while it's in my hands,but I have more problems with phones when I am not holding them.
I have the Rearth Ringke Fusion and it does add a glare to pics if the flash is on but good thing I rarely use my flash. Looks like a simple fix just cut the piece of plastic that separates the flash and camera but other than that great protection for the phone for now.
Another happy user of the Nillkin Natural TPU, it's an excellent fit and adds very little bulk to the phone. The edges make it much easier to grip the phone as well. Best case I've tried so far.
Nillkin tpu, with a tempered glass screen protector
Yesterday I dropped the phone from the sofa, about 1 meter, it suffered no damage. I'm using the original Asus bumper case. It's a bit expensive, but has a very nice finish.
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using Tapatalk
zixen15 said:
The Rearth Ringke Fusion case is very good, fits well, I find it comfortable and of a durable material. Helps with the power button as the case plastic makes it pop out a bit and it can be pressed with a lot of ease.
Here is the link if you want to see it.
http://www.amazon.com/ASUS-ZenFone-5-5-Inch-Case/dp/B00XNSIYTU
Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD using XDA Free mobile app
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Click to collapse
Thats the case I have and its great! It also includes a screen protector and a template to cut out a texture or image that can be swapped when ever which I kinda like.