Develop Bugs

Task killer/battery life

Ok, so there are task killer threads that lead me to believe that they a are a waste of time by and large, and that android automatically sorts things out. Those same posts also point out that task killers are an extra drain on the battery having to start applications over again uses more battery than leaving something dormant in the background. These posts are not the thoughts of one person but unanimous to those threads. All very well, but then there are the battery saving threads that say to close down all applications that aren't being used to save additional battery??? Again this is the view of everyone in those particular threads, so is there any chance of getting the two camps to FIGHT! And then I can decide which I shall choose to do!
For info I currently have task killer and use it all the time and get a full days use out of my battery which is good because I cane the hell out of it! But If I could improve it that would be good. I have however this afternoon decided to not use task killer for a few days and see how I get on. But an explanation would be good from both sides.

I never use a task killer and get 2 or 3 days use out of of my Desire. No point in a war just use your Desire for a week without a task killer and then a week with. I am pretty sure you will just find the task killer slows things down and doesn't improve battery life. You will not find any of the ROM chefs using a task killer either!

HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.

polystirenman said:
HI
I was reading one of those posts this morning and decided to uninstall task-killer.I have to say that after half day of heavy use my device started to be so laggy it took contacts or calendar 5 seconds to open!then I checked running processes and pretty much everything I was playing with was still running.memory dropped to 10MB and device became unusable.cannot say battery use has improved.I think it was the same.
But my task-killer is back up and running.
I must say that I am new to Android.I was using WM for long time.I can cook my own ROMs so I am not a noob but I know very little about Android.so if anyone knows what could be the reason of this huge slowdown I will be grateful for explanation.
And one more thing that needs to be said...
My device is rooted and I am using a2sd too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/

dhiral.v said:
You may like to read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well.i did read that before.that is why i do not understand why my phone was so slow.they are claiming that android should close apps by itself to reclaim memory.but in my case that wasn't true.everything was running and nothing was getting closed by system.

Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.

pascanu said:
Here's another good read:
Google and Cyanogen comments imply task killer/manager apps are pointless
Both Dianne Hackborn and Cyanogen say Task Killers are useless, even developers of these apps concur. You should listen to them, I guess they understand juuust a little bit more than we do what Android is about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i would like to believe it.i was so excited when i saw a post saying that i should get rid of task-killer.but as i wrote before after half day of heavy use(my phone is new so i play with it a lot :-D ) without task killer my phone was soooooo slow i couldn't use it anymore.today i had task-killer back on the phone and all day no slowdown what so ever.i don't understand that.i am starting to think it is related to A2SD and memory being relocated to SD card.

I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.

If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...

andycted said:
If you worry about memory remember that the worst kind of memory is...free memory ! Because it's not being used. Obviously ram gets reclaimed and freed when it's needed.
As said in a couple more redundant threads, there might be a rogue app which you are better off closing because it stays in the background wrongly eating cpu cycles, but this is very very rare. Otherwise I think it's just the usual placebo effect...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you read the link in my previous post?

ANOTHER thread about this... There must be plenty of threads on this now, but I'll just once more give my impression.
Personally I have had HTC widgets like NEWS or MAIL or CALENDER hang or crash on me and I could not restart them unless I restarted the phone. In this case an app killer was ESSENTIAL. I don't believe you need to leave the app killer running always and kill every single task when your done, but its essential to have one installed so if a widget hangs (as has happened quite a few times on the Desire) you can kill the hung app without having to try a 5 hour shut down(another desire issue) and battery removal.
Also... after 2 days use of many apps and camera use and internet and youtube app etc, your internal RAM will be about 50mb available to programs. yes, android is supposed to kill stuff as it needs, and Im sure it does, but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious. So I do tend to kill tasks like camera and youtube etc if I have not used them in a day and my phone seem slaggy. the phone definetly runs faster then. Thats just a fact. So the internal android task killer is not as efficent as you'd like to think. Android 2.2 runs 450% faster than 2.1 so maybe then no lag will EVER be noticable. I'll still keep a task killer installed though in case widgets crash or hang.

I found my battery most efficient with this setup:
- Installed Advanced Task killer (free)
- Security level: High (it doesn't show system apps)
- I have put all frequently using apps on ignore list: ATK, Messages, BatteryTimeLite, Internet, Weather, Clock, Calendar (so Android manage with those apps)
- Auto kill Level: Safe
- Auto kill Frequency: 2 hours
With that setup battery lasts almost half time longer than without TK or with killing all apps when screen goes off. Also I don't have any force closes / lag.

Never experienced lag at 100 or 20 mb free.

mcgon1979 said:
but 50mb free memory compared to 150mb the lag is VERY obvious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The amount of free memory doesn't necessarily have anything to do with lag.
As Android does not use virtual memory (unless you've hacked in swapper, which is a bad idea anyway), it will attempt to make best use of available memory which may mean keeping recently used items in memory, and thus "consuming" free memory. However, if those items are not actively processing, they should not be consuming CPU cycles and therefore consuming little to no power.
As far as a running system is concerned, having lots of free memory just means that it is being underutilized.
I don't kill tasks and my phone never lags - that's just a fact too!
Regards,
Dave

boge said:
I also agree that taskkiller (the way it works for WM) is not good for android, because android has a better memory management...
but there is another flavour of taskkiller in the market... which are based on this:
How to configure Android's *internal* taskkiller
Unfortunately, your phone needs to be rooted before you can use that method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using this method it is possible to make the native task killer a bit more aggresive. I did some experiments with this on the HTC Hero and it just might have improved speed slightly but at the expense of stability.
"Normal" task killers are completely pointless but if people want to use them why not? It they want to sacrifice both battery life and performance by using one surely that is their choice. Whatever the experts says will not convince them.
I suppose you could use one to kill the very occasional hung app. i.e. Once every few days, but most people seem to use them constantly and totally indiscriminately.

1. About Cpu: get a task manager with cpu monitoring and verify for yourself, frozen applications in background don't do anything.
2. About memory: If an application needs 10 MB it just uses 10 MB and couldn't care less if there are 11, 100, 1000 MB free. The only moment you COULD see a tiny slowdown is the instant it needs 20 and there are only 10 available, but the system is quite good in managing that, and freeing resources (there are six levels of memory cleaning which progressively remove unused applications from the background)
3. If you stop monitoring memory usage, stop worrying about the system, you'll find out it manages itself perfectly and you enjoy the phone a lot more.

Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."

Interesting article about installed apps and a battery.
http://blog.gsmarena.com/android-handsets-batteries-should-last-for-more-than-a-day-google-says/
"...Page accused the installed apps of causing the problems and claimed that software running in the background exhausts the battery quickly...."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as said in the post above, get a cpu monitoring task manager and see for yourself if you have something wrong. Personally I don't have any.
Also watch battery history which tells you if the phone doesn't manage to go properly to sleep (partial wake)
regarding that article, iphone users get way less battery time and they don't even have multitasking...
-------------------------------------
Ipad's dont have "Spell Check" thery have "Replace" built into Safarii adn it wokrs just fineq!!!

I personally installed auto memory manager, an app that configures android's internal task killer. Its not a task manager by itself, uses android's task manager. You can set the limits in MB for all the app categories android has.
I was using it in my hero as well and found it really useful. Before having it installed, after some time my free memory was ~50mb, thus my phone was sometimes lagging. Now its always above 100mb and no lag at all

[Q] Why no ones talk about the lag cause by Insufficient memory

I notice the phone start lagging when there are less than 100Meg of available RAM on both 2.1 or 2.2 SGS.
Questions....
1. How do i make sure there will always be min 130 available when not in use?
I'm currently using Froyo Task Manager, ATK and SystemPanel together to make that happen manually. A better suggestion or use of them will be appreciated.
I also tried MemoryPlus and Taskkiller (The red android logo)
2. There are so many background service running some of them start with com.samsung.... (what are these?) do we need them?
3. Why some Apps always run without us telling them to run, or ask us to give them to permission to run on background at will?

ATK
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.

jakaka said:
In ATK in settings you have auto kill level, which is disabled on default.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using JPC, ATK autokill will not able to kill at a system level like SystemPanel, so after a day of active use, the memory will still continue to reduce as some of the background service start consuming more and more memory or run more background process. E.g. Touchwiz from 17 Meg to 25 Meg.
So at the start with ATK, i will have 130Meg, after a day of active use i left with 80Meg. With Apps killed.

I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb

ivanchin99 said:
I use autokiller set to aggressive. memory left 152mb
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cool, does that remain for few days? How often do you restart your phone?

free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!

Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reson for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?

Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...

For me:
-JM7
-animations off
-voodoo lag fix
-minfree manager set to preset agressive.
minfree manager customizes the android memory management system.
I love it this way, No lags when starting the Phone (DIALER) or anything else. The dialer annoys me the must, this must be lag free, if i want to dial i want to dial right away.

Btw, I think you have made some wrong assumptions about the Android memory management system, as mentioned, unused ram is wasted ram.

dagrim1 said:
True, upto a certain point... I don't think you need to have at least 100 or 150 mb free but it DOES seem to help to not let it get down to like 30mb...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time

This is not about letting ram do nothing.you surely don't wasn't your ram get used up by programs you don't want while you had no hand in this.All those services running I don't want.badly written programs that are hanging out in memory instead of closing.at least in symbian an app closed when you exited.

Why would you have 100MB free ? Do you have any application that needs 100MB to run ?! The android system already has enough memory to run so even if you could have 200MB of free memory you phone wouldn't run any faster you would just be able to lauch around 20 apps at the same time.
Read this:
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Linux however isn’t generally affected by this. While I admit that I don’t know the architecture and reason for this… linux will run the same regardless of if you have 20mb free memory or 200mb.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Finguz said:
Agreed but I have never seen my Galaxy with free memory that low and I don't use a task killer. Of course I don't often have more than 3 or 4 apps running at the same time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dunno, I just noticed that one time my phone was VERY sluggish and memory free was around 20mb or so. Cleaning it up did seem to help (unless one of the programs killed was causing the lag of course).
Ah well... Whatever people choose right?

You guys can argue all you want that free RAM is a waste of RAM....
But it is a fact that the SGS runs much slower when the free RAM is low. This is the experience of all the SGS'es I have tried and my own as well. At least this is the case when running 2.1. I have not tested anyone with 2.2 yet.

It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

matty___ said:
It s starts to lag when memory is below 40 mb. So when it s low and you start an application it starts to lag. I set it to 50-55-60 and got hardly any lag. No need to keep so much free ram
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which ROM are you using? as the low memory killer level for background apps is set at 40M which means you should have 40M free all the time or it will start killing background apps. This is also why task killers are useless, free ram is wasted ram for android.
I never had the experience that more free RAM is faster, perhaps with the stock rom but JC and upwards are all good by default. Animations off + Oneclick lagfix (or another) and the phone stays totally lag free.
Being an android user for 1,5 years now i'm very confident Taskkillers are useless except when an app is stuck. I've had periods where I used them allot but the phone only gets slower as the killed apps have to be loaded into the memory again.

Finguz said:
QFT!
What is the point of having memory if it is constantly empty?
Think about it this way...If you had five friends at your house and you have five chairs, do you make 2 or 3 of your friends stand so there is always empty space or do you let everyone sit down and worry about something worthwhile?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Provided you are not expecting anymore friends. The problem happens if all your 5 friends are happily seated and along comes 2 more friends a-visiting. So you have to now move 2 inactive (for want of a better word) friends out of the seats so that you can accommodate the 2 new ones. This takes time. So why not move these friends out as soon as they become inactive so that the space is readily available when someone comes calling?

Try to have a read about garbage collector before argueing about free memory.
The more you try to have a large amount of memory, the more you will need major GC (and during major GC all activity is frozen).
If you let the system manage memory, it does minor GC as needed when it reaches min memory waterline (seems to be 50Mo on SGS).
Let the system do its job.
Get rid of task killer.

Mykron said:
free memory is bad memory!
why don't let android do it's job?! this ist linux with a clever memory management, not windows 95!!! deinstall all auto task killer android is handling the memory very well. it uses all it can get and if it's not enough it kills old uses apps from it. why have free memory, there is absolutely no reason for that! ram is fast, let the often used apps be there not on slow sd or nand!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely disagree. OK, it is better to use memory, but the android memory management is extremely inefficient since it does not know which foreground and background processes are important to the user and which are not, even though it tries to figure that out. Since the Galaxy S does not allow the system to use the full 512MB of memory, this can be a critical factor. And the Galaxy S definitely lags massively when less then 70 or so MB of free RAM is available this is definitely a fact.
The biggest problem is that you cannot manually close apps and only have multitasking access to the last 6 apps used. If you use 7 apps simultaneously, the 1st app still consumes memory but you cannot even switch back to it. And there are so many useless background processes, starting up over and over again and consuming hundreds of MB memory if they are not killed in regular fashion.
Who needs gesture search, amazon mp3, layar, and all the samsung crap running in the background all the time. If you only have 10 such applications and each of them only consumes 15MB of ram, 150MB are wasted for nothing.
Every second market application registers itself as autostart on every boot, so to use a autostart manager is also mandatory.
Since everybody can easily develop for Android the application quality and resource efficiency is not always perfect. So in my opinion Android needs a task manager, this is why even Samsung integrates such a application.
Using a well configured ATK (set to ignore system applications, widgets and apps frequently used for multitasking and killing every else on screen off) and autokiller (strict setting) in addition to Autostart Manager (had to remove 40!!! useless apps from automatic startup) and lagfix, the SGS runs perfectly smooth.

How do I stop apps auto opening

The title is basically the question, im fed up of alot of programs auto opening on my android phone, it takes battery and is slightly annoying receiving notifications off apps i dont really care about such as the NFL game tells me about small things in the NFL, im in the UK, i dont care.
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram, (2 secs later) killed all my selected apps now have 201mb free so im using 80mb of ram on apps im not using. Ive made 2 or 3 phone calls today no more than 30 mins long altogether and ive lost 55% of my battery since about midday, which is when i unplugged the phone.
And I think all these apps are the problem so how can I stop them from auto opening, please help

Search the market for startup cleaner
Sent from my A101IT using xda premium

yusuo said:
If you argue that it doesnt take alot of battery currently have 117mb free ram
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.

Better search for auto starts, this asp shows you the conditions an asp can turn back on and you can bin it off, Facebook for example had like 8 conditions, from full to medium battery life, on charge and change in network....... Use it
Sent from my HTC Desire using xda premium

rootSU said:
More free RAM doesn't really equate to longer battery life or lower power consumption.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's still no reason for most of this apps to use RAM. Apps like facebook and skype shouldn't be actice without user permission. Without login they are complete useless.
I'll try Startup Cleaner, thx.

It's how android works and what RAM is for. There is always a reason.
Sure if someone doesn't use Facebook, it should be uninstallable, but its not and its not causing any harm
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to

RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

rootSU said:
RAM doesn't use more power, the more its used, no.
You don't need a task killer. You do not need to obsess about RAM. Forget about RAM and enjoy your phone
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for you reply but its not really an answer its more of a contradiction, what I was asking is how to I stop apps from auto starting and eating up RAM, regardless of how long the phones been on

...and I'm telling you its a pointless, unecessary waste of time. Also it is not possible. Autostarts as already mentioned is the closest you'll get
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

I also turned off the autorun permissions of a lot of apps, for 2 reasons: 1) a device that is smooth sooner after booting, using less cpu cycles/power. 2) preventing Sense from reloading due to RAM shortage and have smooth multitasking.
1) Android loads a bunch of apps to the RAM that have the autorun permission, until it thinks it is "enough" and useful to you. No matter how many apps you have installed, the amount of free RAM is always about the same, just the number of "unwanted" apps in the RAM differs. Removing the autorun on boot permissions prevents the loading of unnecessary apps that will immediately be removed from the RAM the moment you start the browser/a game, saving cpu cycles=power. So for me there is no point in loading them in the first place, because I am never going to use them (right away). I want the apps that don't to any syncing loaded on demand.
2) I hate slow multitasking and I hate it even more when Sense reloads because it got kicked out of the RAM after each time I press HOME.
I use 3G Watchdog (~12MB RAM), Unlock with Wifi (~8MB), Whatsapp (~15MB), Handcent SMS (~18MB), Droidstats (~13MB), Extended Controls (~12MB), Battery Monitor Widget Pro (~13MB). Okay, I maybe could delete some of them, but these app are "OK" to me, because I use them actively or just need a background service to operate normally.
With Gemini I disabled apps like Facebook, a screenshot tool (just load when I want to make a screenshot..), various public transport planning tools, etc from autostarting.
No joy moment: after using the Facebook app (market version), it may take up 50+ MB and it will not be closed when I start another RAM intensive app, because it is a high priority service. Result: Sense gets kicked out of the RAM. Or, when the situation is somewhat less critical: multitasking is as good as unusable: switching between apps makes them load over and over again, because app2 kicks app1 out of the RAM and vice versa, causing unnecessary lag. Therefore: when I am done with facebook, I close it, then STAY the hell closed It may only autostart when it receives a push message. In that case it is nice to have FB already in RAM when I tap the notification.
Why do even some games have background services, or the Engadget app, or .. , or... all eating precious RAM. And yes, I know, once IN the RAM they eat no battery, but they DO eat battery when the app loads itself back in the RAM when it thinks it needs to, after it got kicked the moment I decided to so something else.
Hmm, spent way too much time to try to explain my frustration Oh and by the way, I have a Legend, but the basics are the same of course.

Dwnload an app called internet commander from the market. It shuts off the internet when your screen turns off but still let's you get calls and texts. I've got my phone , rooted of course, clocked to 710 and my battery will last for days.
Sent from my Eris using xda premium

I just re read your post, that won't help with apps but it will help save battery. And when you turn your screen on the internet kicks right on instantly. Good luck
Sent from my Eris using xda premium

yusuo said:
The problem isn't that apps start when I turn on the phone its that even after i use task manager to close they keep reopening and use over 100mb of ram, earlier I checked and only had 78mb ram available.
This must have an effect on battery to some degree i want to kinda ban certain apps from running in the background unless i specifically tell them to
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guys here have already suggested you use a certain program from the Market. Have you tried it?
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.

TVTV said:
Regarding the whole RAM consumption issue, Android has its own built-in memory management system that ensures that there's always enough RAM for an app whenever it needs it, even if the memory manager shows like 40 MB free. Basically it "ejects" all background, unused apps, from memory making room for the foreground app which needs it most. If for some reason you need to fiddle with that, you can try using the V6 Supercharger script. I find it suitable for my needs but YMMV. It's completely reversible, so if you don't like it you can uninstall it just like that.
P.S. - I agree with rootSU, the ammount of free RAM has nothing to do with battery consumption. If you suspect that an app is draining your battery, check Android's battery statistics to find the culprit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I respectfuly disagree. Android built in ram management is just silly. If I open xda app for example (it could actually be any app for that matter), reply to a few posts, read a few more and close it, why does it need to stay in ram? It reloads anyway when I run it again after I've closed it (using the back button or the actual exit command in the app itself). Why does the camera app need to stay in the background after I just shot a few photos and closed it? Because I may or may not use it again in some time? It's rediculous. And the whole theory that ram management doesn't require any power/cpu usage, how do you guys think all those apps get killed? Android will power?! No, kernel scans all running apps and kills the ones based on built in heuristics so it also reads them first. So that doesn't require any power/battery? Awesome if it's true! Although I wouldn't bet on that. And all this fuss just because you may or may not launch the same app sometime during the next day/week/month/year or it'll eventually get killed? Now that's just plain stupid. I get apps that need services like widgets, push notifications etc. but random apps like root explorer, xda app, titanium, youtube etc. which are opened specificly by the user shouldn't be in ram just for the sake of it after they're closed. I closed it, meaning I don't need it anymore. And I don't need the kernel to scan all apps and running services every time I launch an app so it could provide the free ram that app needs. Consumes cpu time, battery, i/o ... every piece of hardware actually just to free some ram that shouldn't be occupied in the first place. Every app that I ever opened on my phone got loaded almost instantly and that's just after phone had been booted. So after that it should stay in ram so I could open it in a blink of an eye instead of instantly? That's just funny.
Anyway, I'm just thinking out loud so don't flame me immediately. There probably are apsects of it that I didn't mention here or am not aware of. And I'm not saying that I'm right and you guys are wrong, I'm just saying what I know and think about this subject.
-. typewrited .-

PlayPetepp, while it might be true that the OS allocates (thus use) some resources to memory maintenance, the impact on battery life is negligible. In the Android OS, apps in memory are ordered according to priority and state, so the OS always knows which apps to kill first if it needs to make room in RAM, without much of a hassle. The only bad consequence of this system seems to be the fact that once the memory fills up, the launcher may lag or even be evacuated from memory. But, as i've mentioned in my previous post, there are ways to prevent that, either via scripts or, if you know what you're doing, via editing system files.

So the OS doesn't need to scan anything as it keeps everything in memory again? Seems like an endless loop. Open, sort, kill if needed, reopen, sort again, kill ... to what end, constant unneccessary multitasking that user is unaware of? I really don't see any benefit of that system and am only seeing the downsides. I mean, who needs every app they ever run remain in ram even if they close them after using? And then opening another app and "waiting" for whatever needs to be closed to get it running. Sure you can mess with the scripts (init.d, init.rc, etc.) but the underlined conditions stay the same. I hope I'm making sense here. Or am I fighting against windmills.
I just figured out that I strayed from the topic of this thread so won't be continuing this discussion if it's considered offtopic.
-. typewrited .-

Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms

erklat said:
Stop looking for excuses for poor multitasking in Sense 3+ roms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello again nice to see you here
Here's an interesting article on what I was talking about. Sense 3.5 doesn't need that many mbs of ram to work smoothly. After booting and setting everything up I have 150+ mb free. That should be enough for decent multitasking but all those apps not getting killed when you close them are eating too much. Can anyone explain in detail what hidden app, perceptible app, backup app and heavy_weight app means? I've been googling this for a week and can't find any decent explanation.

@PlayPetepp - I think i have already said (in my previous post) that the OS does indeed use some resources for managing the memory, but they are negligible in terms of their impact on battery life. IMHO, the only thing a 3'rd party memory manager (task killer) WILL do is improve lanuncher responsiveness (lag) as the lag does increase when free RAM drops under a certain limit. Thus used wisely, a task killer can improve responsiveness, but battery life... very little, in rare cases (it does the opposite, most of the time).
Regarding the so called "memory slots", here's an excerpt from this article:
FOREGROUND_APP: This is the application currently on the screen, and running
VISIBLE_APP: This is an application that is open, and running in the background because it's still doing something
SECONDARY_SERVER: This is a process (a service that an application needs) that is alive and ready in case it's needed to do something
HIDDEN_APP: This again is a process, that sits idle (but still alive) in case it's needed by an app that's alive and running
CONTENT_PROVIDER: This is apps that provide data (content) to the system. HTC Facebook Sync? That's a CONTENT_PROVIDER. So are things like the Android Market, or Fring. If they are alive, they can refresh and provide the content they are supposed to at the set interval. If you kill them, they can't of course.
EMPTY_APP: I call these "ghosts." They are apps that you have opened, but are done with them. Android uses a unique style of handling memory management. When an activity is ended, instead of killing it off Android keeps the application in memory so that opening them again is a faster process. Theses "ghost" apps use no battery or CPU time, they just fill RAM that would be otherwise empty. When this memory is needed by a different application or process, the RAM is flushed and made available for the new app. To satisfy the geekier people (like myself) Android does this by keeping a list of recently used apps, with the oldest apps in the list given the lowest priority -- they are killed first if RAM is needed elsewhere. This is a perfect way to handle 'ghost' processes, so there's no need to touch this part
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Click to collapse

Whats using all of our ram?

I have been trying to figure out why the Note has so little of the 3 gb of ram available at any given time. After a fresh boot, I might have 1.3 - 1.5 available, but that quickly disappears.
I have frozen all unnecessary apps with Titanium Backup, yet after launching just a few apps, I'll be down to 300 mb or so. Looking at the active applications list in task manager, the apps listed are nowhere near to adding up to over a gb of ram.
Tablet seems to be performing fine, I'd just like to know where the ram is going and why. Especially when tablets with 2 gb of ram seem to have much more free at any given time.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk

i am with you on this issue. would like to find out for my self as well! constantly having to clear ram.
youtube, gmail, and browers = 2.1 gb / 3 gb ...
what the heck?
i constantly have to go back and clear apps, this is such a let down because my htc one could load much more than this, and every1 knows, htc one is no where near the spec of note 2014..

I'm not rooted but I noticed the same thing with the ram, I thought rooting and freezing some Samsung apps, specially Knox stuff, would free up a lot of ram. I'm starting to think that it's not a big deal and Android frees up ram as needed before it starts to get laggy (of course it's not perfect). I think lag issues are somewhere else and not so much in freeing up more ram. Don't you feel anyway that your note is a lot faster after rooting and freezing those apps? As far as I know most rooted users feel that way...(?)
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

I have rooted mine about two weeks ago then froze all sort of junk listed in here and some other I identified mysefl. Now my used ram remains around 500 clean and around 700-800 when I open few apps. So guys the secret is getting a lot of useless apps frozen especially knox stuff.

greyhulk said:
I have been trying to figure out why the Note has so little of the 3 gb of ram available at any given time. After a fresh boot, I might have 1.3 - 1.5 available, but that quickly disappears.
I have frozen all unnecessary apps with Titanium Backup, yet after launching just a few apps, I'll be down to 300 mb or so. Looking at the active applications list in task manager, the apps listed are nowhere near to adding up to over a gb of ram.
Tablet seems to be performing fine, I'd just like to know where the ram is going and why. Especially when tablets with 2 gb of ram seem to have much more free at any given time.
Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Android is based on Linux. Android and Linux both run better when they use as much ram as possible. If you Google Android ram usage you can find a couple of interesting articles about this.
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium HD app

nrage23 said:
Android is based on Linux. Android and Linux both run better when they use as much ram as possible. If you Google Android ram usage you can find a couple of interesting articles about this.
Sent from my SM-P600 using XDA Premium HD app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, stuff is kept in the RAM as much as possible to increase performance. As soon as an app requires more RAM than is available, the system moves apps from the RAM as required. Clearing the RAM only increases the time it takes to start an app next time.

I would be disappointed if its NOT beeing used...
Sent from my GT-I9300 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

delanvital said:
Yup, stuff is kept in the RAM as much as possible to increase performance. As soon as an app requires more RAM than is available, the system moves apps from the RAM as required. Clearing the RAM only increases the time it takes to start an app next time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People are used to Windows needing free ram and do realize that Linux is a completely different animal altogether.
Here is the article for those that want to understand the ram usage.
http://www.androidcentral.com/ram-what-it-how-its-used-and-why-you-shouldnt-care
http://www.linuxatemyram.com/

Okay, guys. Disclaimer: I'm an IT professional and the Mobility expert for my company. I know how the RAM is used and why. I'm just curious as to what is using it. Especially in comparison to the Nexus 10, which has 2/3 of the RAM and has approximately the same amount available at any given time.
I wasn't looking for assurance that this is how it's supposed to work. I'm curious as to what you guys think is actually filling it up. Since I have disabled most unnecessary processes and only run a few apps at any given time, I can't see why so little is free.

greyhulk said:
... I'm curious as to what you guys think is actually filling it up. Since I have disabled most unnecessary processes and only run a few apps at any given time, I can't see why so little is free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The objective of good android RAM management is to keep RAM full of the the highest priority apps. This enables faster and smoother response. The apps that are in RAM on your device will be different than on someone else's device. If you are curious about how android decides what put in RAM and what to take out, do a google search on "android process lifecycle"

if you're concerned about ram usage go to dev settings and change the "Limit background processes" to something more you liking.

RAM usage

I'm still pretty new to Android so I don't know what is normal, but why does the system use so much RAM when it is supposedly doing nothing? On my 2GB model, after a reboot it says that 1.2GB are free, but this soon drops to 900MB and continues to drop to 500 or 600MB, even if all apps are closed. Is this something I should just ignore and trust that tge Android system knows best and uses RAM appropriately?

kanagawaben said:
I'm still pretty new to Android so I don't know what is normal, but why does the system use so much RAM when it is supposedly doing nothing? On my 2GB model, after a reboot it says that 1.2GB are free, but this soon drops to 900MB and continues to drop to 500 or 600MB, even if all apps are closed. Is this something I should just ignore and trust that tge Android system knows best and uses RAM appropriately?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This must be the well-publicised Android 5.0.x memory leak.

DanielKennethRego said:
This must be the well-publicised Android 5.0.x memory leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Possibly, but my Memo Pad 7 seems much the same, and that's still on 4.4.2

If there is free memory then Android will let the apps sit in memory invisibly even after you have closed them - this way they will load faster next time you launch them. If the amount of free memory gets low Android will close some of those invisible apps. So that is normal, unless the amount of free RAM keeps decreasing while you do nothing with it - in that case there must be some bad memory leak.

In android, unused memory is kind of waste so system will allocate usage in a high percentage for efficiency.

DanielKennethRego said:
This must be the well-publicised Android 5.0.x memory leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
graphO said:
If there is free memory then Android will let the apps sit in memory invisibly even after you have closed them - this way they will load faster next time you launch them. If the amount of free memory gets low Android will close some of those invisible apps. So that is normal, unless the amount of free RAM keeps decreasing while you do nothing with it - in that case there must be some bad memory leak.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
xda_husky said:
In android, unused memory is kind of waste so system will allocate usage in a high percentage for efficiency.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kanagawaben said:
Possibly, but my Memo Pad 7 seems much the same, and that's still on 4.4.2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not a memory leak. All devices which are on papers 2GB are actually less than that. Take memory for example. My Nexus says 32GB but I get around 27GB. Same goes on with USB flash drivers/ pen drives.
Secondly, On Windows, you want to keep as much RAM available as you can so that programs have enough room to operate. When RAM fills up, Windows is forced to start using hard drive space as virtual RAM and hard drives are much slower than physical RAM.
This is not true for Android.
Android’s operating system has its own native handler for assigning RAM to apps and making sure that all of it is being used in the most optimal way. In fact, Android purposely tries to keep apps loaded into RAM for better performance. RAM is fast, remember? On mobile devices, every bit of speed is critical for a good user experience, so keeping apps in RAM is actually a good thing. So regardless how much your RAM is shown, it wouldn't affect your user experience unless the apps installed in your phone are more than RAM can handle at a time which means either update your phone with more RAM or uninstall your apps that you do not use!

Hnk1 said:
It is not a memory leak. All devices which are on papers 2GB are actually less than that. Take memory for example. My Nexus says 32GB but I get around 27GB. Same goes on with USB flash drivers/ pen drives.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is not what OP is saying, at all.

DanielKennethRego said:
That is not what OP is saying, at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP says that the memory decreases over time. If you read my post again, i simply said as you more applications are loaded over time, the memory starts to decrease! This is what causes the memory to decrease and if you could use a bit of logic, you could have easily come to the conclusion

Hnk1 said:
The OP says that the memory decreases over time. If you read my post again, i simply said as you more applications are loaded over time, the memory starts to decrease! This is what causes the memory to decrease and if you could use a bit of logic, you could have easily come to the conclusion
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
...And that is not what I quoted in my reply, is it?

DanielKennethRego said:
...And that is not what I quoted in my reply, is it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes it's good to swallow some pride and in that there's more dignity. I explained everything from bits and pieces and I'm sure OP can conclude it unlike you.
Do not hesitate to quote me for any query. Always welcomed

Hnk1 said:
It is not a memory leak. All devices which are on papers 2GB are actually less than that. Take memory for example. My Nexus says 32GB but I get around 27GB. Same goes on with USB flash drivers/ pen drives.
Secondly, On Windows, you want to keep as much RAM available as you can so that programs have enough room to operate. When RAM fills up, Windows is forced to start using hard drive space as virtual RAM and hard drives are much slower than physical RAM.
This is not true for Android.
Android’s operating system has its own native handler for assigning RAM to apps and making sure that all of it is being used in the most optimal way. In fact, Android purposely tries to keep apps loaded into RAM for better performance. RAM is fast, remember? On mobile devices, every bit of speed is critical for a good user experience, so keeping apps in RAM is actually a good thing. So regardless how much your RAM is shown, it wouldn't affect your user experience unless the apps installed in your phone are more than RAM can handle at a time which means either update your phone with more RAM or uninstall your apps that you do not use!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I must say, although most of what you say is true, having less free ram absolutely does have a negative effect on user experience. My browser tends to crash, non-intensive games face lag spikes and the general UI stutters. Is this due to Android or Asus' tweaks to Android doing a poor job at managing ram? I don't doubt that in a perfect scenario with a perfect OS, what you said holds true.

I've not had good experience with the RAM so far. My browser tabs fall out of memory more than my cheap 1GB phone. It's rather disappointing. Even just switching between 2 or 3 tabs and going back to a tab after a few seconds and it's already fallen out.

aloy99 said:
I must say, although most of what you say is true, having less free ram absolutely does have a negative effect on user experience. My browser tends to crash, non-intensive games face lag spikes and the general UI stutters. Is this due to Android or Asus' tweaks to Android doing a poor job at managing ram? I don't doubt that in a perfect scenario with a perfect OS, what you said holds true.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
damian5000 said:
I've not had good experience with the RAM so far. My browser tabs fall out of memory more than my cheap 1GB phone. It's rather disappointing. Even just switching between 2 or 3 tabs and going back to a tab after a few seconds and it's already fallen out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes as I mentioned before, if the apps which are preloaded are more than RAM can handle, you'd surely see a lag but killing background apps wouldn't be of much help either unless your RAM memory has too many preloaded apps already which is affecting performance of your phone. If you are rooted, apps like greenify / titanium can hibernate / freeze apps which take up memory and usually this helps in better user interface but again many other argue the opposite.
Are you using Asus Browser ? If yes, I'd suggest to use chrome as your default browser because Asus Browser is not only slow but also it drains a lot of battery. This has been proven extensively and even reviewed on different websites including gsmarena.
Basically Nexus provides pure Android interface which every manufacturer tweaks a bit according to their own needs. Usually this tweaking means more memory usage(Ram) by system UI. This is one reason that Samsung's touch wiz lags a lot on lower end phones but the same hardware runs smooth without touchwiz. The reason is Samsung has lots of tweaks in system UI .
Some browsers conserve memory by only keeping the tab used in memory and rest are loaded when you switch them. They aren't preloaded but usually this option is available in settings to preload pages which would use more memory.
I have preordered the device with 4gb so I'm afraid I can't compare your device with mine in this regard.
Kindly tell me which browsers are you using so I can comment further

Hnk1 said:
Yes as I mentioned before, if the apps which are preloaded are more than RAM can handle, you'd surely see a lag but killing background apps wouldn't be of much help either unless your RAM memory has too many preloaded apps already which is affecting performance of your phone. If you are rooted, apps like greenify / titanium can hibernate / freeze apps which take up memory and usually this helps in better user interface but again many other argue the opposite.
Are you using Asus Browser ? If yes, I'd suggest to use chrome as your default browser because Asus Browser is not only slow but also it drains a lot of battery. This has been proven extensively and even reviewed on different websites including gsmarena.
Basically Nexus provides pure Android interface which every manufacturer tweaks a bit according to their own needs. Usually this tweaking means more memory usage(Ram) by system UI. This is one reason that Samsung's touch wiz lags a lot on lower end phones but the same hardware runs smooth without touchwiz. The reason is Samsung has lots of tweaks in system UI .
Some browsers conserve memory by only keeping the tab used in memory and rest are loaded when you switch them. They aren't preloaded but usually this option is available in settings to preload pages which would use more memory.
I have preordered the device with 4gb so I'm afraid I can't compare your device with mine in this regard.
Kindly tell me which browsers are you using so I can comment further
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using Chrome. That's the whole point of having more memory, so they don't have to be reloaded when switching.
If I had 10 tabs open and switching back and forth over a long period of time, this is understandable. Not 2 or 3 tabs and switching between two tabs within 10 seconds. Defeats the entire purpose of having 2GB of RAM. The same thing happens switching between apps. Many of them fall out of memory within just a few seconds of switching back and forth. My 1GB phone does better than this. Something to do with whatever memory management Asus has set up.

damian5000 said:
Using Chrome. That's the whole point of having more memory, so they don't have to be reloaded when switching.
If I had 10 tabs open and switching back and forth over a long period of time, this is understandable. Not 2 or 3 tabs and switching between two tabs within 10 seconds. Defeats the entire purpose of having 2GB of RAM. The same thing happens switching between apps. Many of them fall out of memory within just a few seconds of switching back and forth. My 1GB phone does better than this. Something to do with whatever memory management Asus has set up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand your frustrations and it could be Asus related buy I think this is how chrome operates generally so it's the browser in my opinion. I suggest you use dolphin browser (not mini version) because it usually preloads pages on my devices and it is fast as well but I usually use it for flash support only. I prefer opera classic (now opera) on my phone with chrome . On my tab, I use chrome only. It always works for me and it's Asus made. Tell me what you think of it after using it a bit . I like chrome for its sync support which is very simple and helpful.

Hnk1 said:
Yes as I mentioned before, if the apps which are preloaded are more than RAM can handle, you'd surely see a lag but killing background apps wouldn't be of much help either unless your RAM memory has too many preloaded apps already which is affecting performance of your phone. If you are rooted, apps like greenify / titanium can hibernate / freeze apps which take up memory and usually this helps in better user interface but again many other argue the opposite.
Are you using Asus Browser ? If yes, I'd suggest to use chrome as your default browser because Asus Browser is not only slow but also it drains a lot of battery. This has been proven extensively and even reviewed on different websites including gsmarena.
Basically Nexus provides pure Android interface which every manufacturer tweaks a bit according to their own needs. Usually this tweaking means more memory usage(Ram) by system UI. This is one reason that Samsung's touch wiz lags a lot on lower end phones but the same hardware runs smooth without touchwiz. The reason is Samsung has lots of tweaks in system UI .
Some browsers conserve memory by only keeping the tab used in memory and rest are loaded when you switch them. They aren't preloaded but usually this option is available in settings to preload pages which would use more memory.
I have preordered the device with 4gb so I'm afraid I can't compare your device with mine in this regard.
Kindly tell me which browsers are you using so I can comment further
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Using Firefox, I read about the stock browser issues before getting the phone.
Clearing ram using the built in booster appears to help with performance, although it could be a placebo, and it's certainly less pronounced than on my previous phone with only 1GB of ram.
I have greenify'd/frozen a lot of apps, including some of the Asus bloatware. No comment on improved performance though.
Overall, I'm happy with the performance but low ram still seems to bother me, although such scenarios are rare.

aloy99 said:
Using Firefox, I read about the stock browser issues before getting the phone.
Clearing ram using the built in booster appears to help with performance, although it could be a placebo, and it's certainly less pronounced than on my previous phone with only 1GB of ram.
I have greenify'd/frozen a lot of apps, including some of the Asus bloatware. No comment on improved performance though.
Overall, I'm happy with the performance but low ram still seems to bother me, although such scenarios are rare.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are more worried about RAM that is left in your memory rather than actual performance. This can happen especially if you had very high expectations from this phone. According to ASUS, this is a midrange phone on their website. Not a flagship if you are hoping!
I suggest check the performance by installing some heavy graphic games and see if it lags or not. I am sure that would be the best way to find out!
Good Luck!

The browser pages redrawing is almost certainly the lollipop memory leak. I don't have a zenfone 2 yet, but my nexus 7 had this problem up until the release of 5.1, so hopefully Asus updates to that soon.

i notice when i uninstalled clean master..my ram always on 1 gb free unlike before it stays at 650..700 free...notice my phone is even faster now

TOT_tomdora said:
The browser pages redrawing is almost certainly the lollipop memory leak. I don't have a zenfone 2 yet, but my nexus 7 had this problem up until the release of 5.1, so hopefully Asus updates to that soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, thank you for finally making that point clear as it's the main reason, which clearly isn't Asus' fault.
pato2015 said:
i notice when i uninstalled clean master..my ram always on 1 gb free unlike before it stays at 650..700 free...notice my phone is even faster now
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Click to collapse
An ironic, yet awesome find pato!:thumbup: Be sure to relay this to the other places on the net that you're involved with that pertains to the Zenfone 2.
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