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I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times. And maybe only 1 of those times isn't supported by current WP7. I think I was trying to copy a selected joke off the internet and send it in a text to someone. Is that really a deal breaker? REALLY? I can't copy and paste in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I can't multitask in the traditional fashion so this OS sucks? I don't have access to the file system so this phone sucks? lol This is getting out of hand. I'm not gonna lie, after seeing it in person I want to give a few thoughts:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
2) MS isn't just forgoing certain aspects, they are giving you something they perceive is BETTER(and they could be wrong). And I get to thinking about this for a minute. I'm running an Acer S2000, I don't have much problems with running multiple apps at the same time but If I go back to my old Touch HD, After running maybe 4-5 apps at the same time(hell just one 2-3 apps provided one of them is google maps), I start to experience extreme slowdown in the device so now I'm forced to use the task manager and close out apps. This is everyday stuff for us, no biggie. But to the everyday end-consumer its pretty tough and annoying concept to grasp. So why shouldn't the system do it for you? Why shouldn't the system recognize the fact that you just got an email with a phone number and that by clicking on the phone number you either want to add it as a contact or call the number? Why? Is a very important question. People ask why are some of us defending it to the death, I ask why are certain people so unwilling to accept change? Its not like WM6+ is dead...
3) its not an iphone clone. Hell, Android and WebOS has multitasking, I guess they are WM-clones... Its such a stupid concept. It looks nothing like the Iphone and it doesn't act anything like the Iphone. But you gotta give Apple some credit, they know what people want and they provide it, thats how you go from the bottom of the hill to the top in 4 quick years. The Iphone reinvented what people use a phone for. Its simple and intuitive (just press what you want) WM is going for that same lot of people. If everyone from XDA didn't buy WP7, MS wouldn't even break a sweat because it know it will gain far more everyday users than it will lose from powerusers. Powerusers will stay where they are, but look at the population of the world with Tweet, facebook, myspace, etc. You don't think some of them are salivating at the mouth to get to this powerhouse? I wish MS would have just flat out said, "you wanna hack phones and tinker with system files, this phone isn't for you, go suck it XDA" it would have been so much easier for people to take
So look at the positive
Developers (which i have to believe are the life blood of WM and THIS WEBSITE...unless you're a leech in which case no need to respond) No more need to spend you precious time building beautiful apps and not get paid for it(if it were the case A_C would be one rich dude by now). I like the idea of the marketplace as the only place to get apps. I mean when people think about how many people take innovation for granted on this site. Show up, find something new, download someones work...not leave a message of thanks, not donate etc....just poof gone. Thats complete and utter crap. Devs should get paid for their work, free download with a set trial period is an amazing idea and will definitely go a long way to seeing 1) quality developers getting most of the service 2) quality apps drive the marketplace to further innovation. This is a all around plus for the end user and developers.
Built in memory. I think is a plus. Now people can argue the contrary but this is more of a personal thing for me. Plus when you think of the end user, it only works out for the better. Give me 32GB and I'm fine. Hell I haven't come close to maxing out the same 4 gig I've had for the past 3-4 years.
Everything is better than Windows media player. I must say, I use my phone for music a lot (Jaybird bluetooth FTW) and I must say the Zune experience is amazing (I also have a Zune) and its just beautiful. Gone are the days when I copy songs onto my phone and I end up with Unknown song 1-18 by unknown artist. Zune desktop is head and shoulders above WM and Itunes. Hell you can search more music by and artist you have on your phone, listen to songs and download them str8 to the phone with the Zune Pass. I get 10 free songs a month to keep, and can listen to anything I want anytime for $15 a month. Thats an awesome deal considering Itunes is 99 cents per song and you don't have the ability to listen to anything you want anytime you want.
Info on the go, I like the hubs...I love the hubs. I wish i used social networking sites..lol. Honestly the amount of detail that goes into the total system integration of social networking is sheer madness. Your photos update with photos that people post on their facebook?!?!?! WTF? Thats insane. Its quite ridiculous how far they went, but if you care about that, and a lot of people do, then this is the ultimate device. You don't need to launch twinkini or whatever twitter app to see whats going on, you only need to look through your contacts. Thats awesome
MS Office, I never used anything but XLS files personally but I'm looking at the way its integrated (even though they didn't get too in depth) and it looks great. It looks clean (METRO UI) and it looks easy to use. I can't wait to get some pinch to zoom action going. Powerpoint presentations should be a breeze as well.
XBOX HUB, sheer awesomeness. I don't have an Xbox(PS3 FTW) but Linking it all together they way they have is nothing short of innovative and awesome. Give me an Xperia X3 with a PS3 Integration and I'll love you forever. Also a big shout out goes to the game development. Graphics are seriously on par with PSP quality. It quite amazing.
I once said:
"its(WP7) not like the iphone where you check your SMS by tapping sms its something completely different, better. You go from the Hub into the universe that is you contacts, updated twitters, facebook, photos, sms, emails....everything at the touch of the finger...just by going into contacts. Thats awesome. Granted I don't uses twitter or facebook but its a nice touch. But if you look at it, there is still more room for innovation..."
I still stand by that after MIX10. I won't bash WP7 and I will defend it because I believe it is that innovative, I believe it is a game changer. For all the complaining there hasn't been a congruent amount of love spread so I will be that guy even if the flame gets ridiculous. So yeah, MIX10 was amazing, got robbed, won some money, got married and divorced (I kid) it was a great experience, something that watching it on video cannot give justice to.
That said I will give a few of my small personal beefs.
1) The phone handles multitasking in a way that closes programs when the system needs the resources, why don't we have control over this? Having the ability to manually close programs is important...should be an option. Assuming the system doesn't have some genius way of making me happy with its multitasking...this could be a problem. Also, with the spec given, how the hell is this system running out of resources?
2) SD cards aren't supported. Eh, with enough built in memory this isn't a problem to most but, I know some that have maxed out their Iphones/Ipod touch. It would be nice to have an expandable option
3) Compatiblity issues, How am I supposed to share files with my phone to my PC if I cannot access activesync? Do I email the file to myself then open it on my PC? There better be some answer for this.
4) Also I use my current WM phone as a thumbdrive alot. I just store stuff on it to keep with me and put on my work PC and vice versa. Without activesync, memory cards, or access to system files how is this accomplished?
~style1~
ALRIGHT those are my thoughts, I tried to play both sides of the fence even though I'm completely biased..lol. I do bring up some interesting issues with WP7...what are your thoughts? Also sorry for another long thread
style1 said:
I have been with WinMo for quite some time. I may have used copy and paste maybe MAYBE 5 times.
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Click to collapse
That's nice, but what's the rationale for not including it for anyone? MS says, "Our research indicates that people don't use copy and paste." That scares me because it is very Apple-esque. I hate the philosophy of "we know what works best for you, so why don't you shut the eff up and not ask any questions, OK? Just do what you're told and play in our nice little walled in garden and everything will be fine." That Apple mentality has spread to MS it seems. I don't often look at or take pictures on my phone, either, but does that mean those capabilities should be removed? No, they should be there in the event that I do want to use them. What's the harm in leaving in copy and paste?
And if I can get good battery life on my TP2 with multitasking, why can't they coax it out of the shiny new WP7? How does Palm do it?
I store all sorts of crap on my phone, so they better have 32GB versions available and let me use it as USB storage.
Also, I heard you won't be able to set different programs as the default (say, Opera instead of IE). Which is another ridiculous restriction and just shows that MS has gone overboard with control, just like Apple. And that's just the reason I don't have an iPod or iPhone.
So if things don't change, I'm off to Android.
Engadget, by the way, has been actually quite balanced with WP7 versus their coverage of WM6. And prior to the all bad stuff we learned at MIX10, they were hyping it quite a bit themselves.
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
I'm feeling kinda torn with regards to WP7s. On the one hand I love the UI and the integration, on the other I hate the lock down. Not just the software lock down but also the hardware lock down. It's what I hated about the Iphone, and it's what I hate about WP7s. Granted, there's gonna be more variety with WP7s, but it's constrained variety.
When I first saw WP7s I was certain my next phone would be with that OS. Now I'm not so sure...
Regards
havox22 said:
after reading this i want my wp7 now i can live with out copy & paint but i would just to like to know why leave it out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They've completely re-done the UI. Allowing copy & paste would mean they would need to re-implement it from scratch. Besides that, as far as I know the WP7 menus are limited to max. 4 entries so they figured out it doesn't really fit in....
yeah I feel you guys about the copy and paste even though I hardly use it, but my honest opinion about it is that microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all. The issues mentioned at the bottom of my original post pose far bigger issues than having copy and paste. But as I mentioned in my OP, I don't think MS intentionally got rid of the stuff we like, I think they tried to integrate something that is better, something for the end user instead of the the heavy user. If thats their ideal customer(everyday users), then yes, Automatic multitasking trumps the task manager style multitasking: active copy paste is useless. I guess...lol
BEGIN RANT/
On a different note, on the innovation side Android reminds me alot of the old WM. Palm/WebOS is a different beast all together. Nokia/Symbian owns majority market share even though its hardly innovative, Iphone has been largely innovative (face it...it is) and is the number 2 OS followed by WM. Image that as a marketer. There are like a million different types of WM phones made by dozens of different manufacturers and somehow they lose market share in 4-5 years to 1 phone made by 1 developer. How is that possible? There is something to be said for massive over-saturation and its effectiveness (NOKIA...I'm looking at you) but as far making hand over fist money, how can you not just look at Apple and say "genius?" 1 phone, locked down, hated by so many, number 2 marketshare in the world. I think if WM is going to get on top they have to attack Apple. Attacking Android does nothing...honestly I think pushing WM 6.5 beats android (Personal opinion) WP7 has to take those Iphone users away from apple. So they have to offer not just something similar, they have to offer something BETTER. So yeah, High level of social integration is BETTER, Simplistic design and text based smooth UI is BETTER, Stronger Hardware BETTER, Xbox integration and heavy game centric focus is BETTER. The Iphone is the enemy here. In order to beat Apple it has to be BETTER at what it does. So, we wont see 8 HTC WP7 phones every year (since there is no point considering WP7's high standards)...thats a good thing. WP7 is putting out a clear and sweeping OS that has one message WE ARE BETTER. I think the average user will be sucked away from Iphone back into Windows because Windows is totally committed to bring a user experience that is uniform across all platforms. If I have a PC and an XBox...WP7 is a no brainer. 23 Million XBox users...thats a lot of people. RANT END/
Thats all my personal opinion though. Butler youre right about not being able to set certain programs as default. As MS is using BING to search, and IE for internet etc....I don't think you'll be able to switch it to opera on the fly. But you can always just select Opera from the programs list or just tag it to HUBs and just select it from there. Although I believe that with the fact that MS has been sued recently in EU for not offering people a choice for their browsing for their PC I'm confident in saying that Opera might still have the option to set at default (as it currently does). We will see though. Its kinda a stretch to relate PC to WP7 as is because its still in rough beta.
~style1~
style1 said:
1) Engadget, etc are focusing and too many things this phone doesn't have and not the things this phone will have. This OS has created quite a few outright innovative ideas that aren't getting half as much time spent on them as is pointing out things that aren't there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This makes sense. People will often require a number of features from a phone and unless it ticks those boxes extra features are not important.
"Windows Phone 7" is missing a lot of basic features. If they are not important to you, good for you, but you seem to be in two minds about that. When there are a lot of decent phone OSes on the market you shouldn't have much need to compromise.
well yeah of course, but its not like any of these features are totally missing...they've just been reinvented or reinvisioned, so to speak. I look it it this way, why do I copy and paste? Because I want to take info from one program and transfer it or send it to another. MS has determined (again, I'm sure the put some R&D into it) that most people don't even use it so much so they created a NEW system that allows you to do basically the exact same thing, take info and transfer it, without all the fuss. Its still copying and pasting. I dunno. I believe innovation something to embrace, it moves the industry foward. Because all these guys compete for our business they drive each other bigger and better. But it seems that keeping up with the old outdated ideas is all that people care about. I mean, the Iphone doesnt NEED copy and paste. It functioned just as well without it. The big problem with it was they had NO alternative to make people say oh well thats just as good. So what do they do? They add vanilla copy and paste. Consumers drive innovation in that sense. My wife for the life of her can't understand this huge hype about multitasking. She believes her Iphone is just fine. She can listen to music, she gets her push notifications when she needs them...shes a happy camper. She doesn't get it. I try to explain to her how its important, but regardless she wont get it because it doesn't fit her lifestyle. How many people does something like that matter to, honestly? I get MS' approach....it makes sense. The average consumer would rather have things be simple, would rather have things done for them; than actively doing them for themselves. The exception to this is WebOS because its driven by the idea of multitasking. And how innovative is that. The homescreen is the taskmanager. Its a great way to make the idea of actively managing open apps seem like it is something that you are in control of, not like WM or android (where you just get massive lag) where it seems like the open programs are something thats controlling you.
Different strokes for different folks though. But hey remember how many of those basic required features that the original Iphone launched with? lol Looking back it was laughable how fail that phone was, but it sold out the stores like a champ. Its not about the basic features. Its about the innovation behind it. Apple invented the wheel all over again. MS has to invent the V8.
~style1~
Personally, I was looking forward to WP7.
But:
1) No Multi-Tasking (I don't count push notifications as multi-tasking)
2) No Copy/Paste
3) No removable Storage
4) No 'Use as USB device'
Are pretty big dealbreakers for me. These were all things in favor over the iPhone (except c&p since last year), and now they're going to handicap us :|
Thanks for being a voice of reason style
sevenprx,
windows does have their own take on C&P as well as multitasking. It in fact does do both, just not in the way thats been the industry standard so people are considering it NOT there even though it clearly is. I believe you should check out engadget where they do have a few good articles and clips.
1) Copy and Paste Here (even with the misleading headline its informative)
2) multitasking HERE
3) Removable storage is a big issue. I think most will be appeased by massive 32 gig phones but alot (myself included) of people wont. But in terms of solving problems it saves a few headaches for MS in the development process. I do believe MS told us during the keynote (or somewhere during that time, I cannot remember) that developers can have internal SD for more memory, but it is kinda a bummer for me to not have removable Cards. Its basically to keep this phone as unhackable as possible.
4) No use as a USB device...this too is a killer, as I mentioned earlier I do use my phone to store info on. Its a daily thing. Since I can't access my phone through activesync it makes all this info useless. Its like they only want use USB to move photos and music...THATS IT. I'm not sure if thats the best strategy but, for those to whom this is dealbreaker for, they are probably happy as sheep with 6.5 so it won't be too much of a deal for MS. Which of course still makes the HD2 an extremely viable phone at one helluva price.
~style~
Thanks mazzarin
I'm still looking forward to WP7. It has a lot of very intriguing features and I like the look of the UI.
As far as multi-tasking goes it will work with my needs. I can alway have a webpage up in the background, I can alway have music playing in the background. Any core feature of the UI like calls, SMS, email can all run the the background and one 3rd party app. Honestly, I hardly ever use multiple 3rd party apps to begin with.
I don't use copy and paste very much. I think I can say I've used it about 5 times since I've had my device and honestly it was so much of a pain to use that a couple of those time I gave up and just wrote it down and re-typed it.
I would really live to have removable storage. I just hope phones with 32GB flash come out. I can fill 8GB pretty easily.
I use my phone as a USB device a lot just to transfer big files. This is honestly one of the biggest things I don't like.
Look, I'm all for defending Microsoft but the one thing you glossed over is the one real dealbreaker.
No copy and paste? How basic yet essential is that? If you've only used it 5 times in 5 years I don't know what you've been doing with your phone, but other people bought a phone with Outlook and Office and web browsers for a reason. Data detection is not going to let me email a paragraph or search for a sentence.
"Multitasking": No problem, pause the apps for when I come back to them. I don't have to close them myself, cool.
No USB file access: Pain in the neck, sucks for us, but if we store only files that apps on the phone handle (music, documents, etc) then at least we can still use the device as intended. It just won't be a flash drive
No removable card: Very stupid since I do actually pull out the card.. but the truth is that most people don't. MS and app developers have a much easier time knowing that the storage is always a part of the device, and they also don't have to be so scared of piracy. So it really really sucks that we can't expand storage, but at least the phone will still work.
So when you combine those last two, our main difficulty is moving files on and off the phone.. but it will sync files to our own accounts fine at least. even wirelessly. So the phone is still usable. But copy/paste? The phone is CRIPPLED without it
again, what as I said before, I actually did sit in on an conversation and demo where there same things you're saying about copy and paste were presented to the demo operators. Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS.
Honestly just like multitasking, its a non intrusive way of doing what people do anyway. And yes I have only used multitasking maybe 5 times. I honestly just don't need the feature. I mean, hell as there are millions of Iphone users what they were doing with their phones for the longest. It just isn't important to me. I use outlook, use push, I use Office and the web browsers but I never had to copy anything. I handle P&L's, I keep many office documents and I prepare powerpoint presentations as well having my phone linked to corporate accounts that I use to send this information out on a system wide level. I haven't seen the use for copy and paste because honestly I send complete documents so I only need fowarding.... Occasionally I may just copy an email account and paste it into my recipients list but WP7 is capable of doing this...I witnessed it myself.
~style1~
Very rationale styles1. I like your thinking with some valid points. I still believe that wm has been around this long because of xda and every developer and user that uses their brain to tweak and modify to each individuals liking, including ms/htc and xda developers. Taking this away, takes the dignity away from ms and xda users. i have been a long time wm user since i was a kid back in the early 80s. the ONLY reason i don't have an iphone and not jumped ship like my dad, sister, brother in law, friends is because of the features that wm has had over the years. the ability to cut & paste, the ability to use storage cards, the ability to control the phone. I use all these features. Not every day, but I use them. And it's more than 5 times in 5 years. I guarantee everybody on here, and probably yourself, would be lyng if you said just 5 times. Try 10 or 20 times, but how is your memory so good and that you can count with your fingers to just 5. Anyhow, I'm not here to argue. These simple/essential things are actually quite vital to the average xda user like myself. I've read thousands of messages on here from chainfire, to abu, to duty, to dave shaw, mskipp and to every other developer on here. They are my true heroes, they have made the wm phone viable, with dignity. For an analogy, you can drive a cadilac or a mercedes. But your gonna tweak up a hyndai or honda and tell me it's the same and gonna be better than a mercedes. If honda were gonna tweak up there car and charge 75,000 and say they are just as good, then I'm just gonna buy one. hmmm. we (ms) is competeing against iphones? are we really competing against them, or are we competing against ourselves (wm 7 vs wm 6.5/6.0/5.0...) To take away all these essentials, would be taking away life. Variety and Substance is the essential part of life. I hate e-readers, yet I don't like reading books either. However, I'd rather read a book where I can locate a page, then read off an e-reader. I think XDA developers and the common user like myself have spoken loud and clearly, there are really no winners in this case. This is not your win-win scenario......What do I know, I'm just a geeky medical doctor writing with no substance.
well I didn't originally say only five times...I said maybe 5 times. I'm not a fun user I'm mostly a heavy poweruser. But as most of the people on here I am extremely mod heavy. So yeah, I get it. But developers here will still be able to use this site for 6.5 as well as 7. People have to understand a couple things first and foremost. First, if developers don't support WP7, WP7 won't move foward. They can also support 6.5 as well as WP7 and not have to PICK SIDES. This isn't about "oh they got rid of features I need, FAIL" this is about a platform as a whole. 6.5 isn't going anywhere soon. Keep it alive but embrace the future as well. I don't like the thinking that goes into a lot of the bashing that happens. I mean if we're going to use cars for examples let me throw one out there.
I used to drive a Ford Fusion, when it rained I would turn on my wind shield wipers. Last year I upgraded to a E class Mercedes...now when it rains my windshield wipers turn themselves on. I like the fact that I don't have to worry about something so trivial as to turn the wipers on and then get them at a pace that isn't excessive or less than what current rain speed is. Its a system that reacts to whats happening around it and assumes the likely reaction.
I think thats similar to the changes WP7 is making to amend some of the issues with WM6+. But of course thats just my opinion.
I personally, however, hope that developers here don't just shun WP7 because its different and embrace it as an opportunity to develop for a new platform, increase their product visibility and most important to make revenue off of their hard work. Donations are fine but being able to actually get paid for your work makes for a new scenarios that aren't currently available to developer here at XDA and as we all know money drives innovation.
~style1~
style1 said:
Almost Every feature of copy and paste that people actually use copy and paste for is still available...however its not called C&P any more its called "smartlinking" officially by MS
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No sir, no... I don't know what your definition of 'almost' is but I know that by definition "smartlinking" only works on structured data.. phone numbers, addresses, etc. If I wanted to paste another quote from your comment right here --> there's absolutely no way for smartlinking to do that.
Copy/Paste. Why does anyone even need to be arguing and making excuses for this? It's just basic and shouldn't have had to be left out or delayed. They have so many ways to implement it
if you read my post 6 i actually talk about what I saw in a live demo...actually I'll just quote it for ease of reading(I guess i will use copy and paste just for the hell of it....lol):
"microsoft didn't just get rid of the system of copy and paste and not give you any options. They instead implemented the "smart option" in which the OS tries to guess or assume (tough to swallow) what you want to do and give you available options. In the demo unit I saw, he was running through possible scenarios where people mostly use C&P(which I assume they have R&D dollars to back), it was for fowarding messages, forwarding addresses and numbers, copying links or locations into search engines, and a few other ways which slip my mind. The system was easily able to do all these simple things. However the only place it failed was when we asked him to copy a paragraph from the internet (which was quite the turtle BTW) and send it in an SMS. That was the ONLY place we could make it fail. So if you do that alot, then yep, be angry. Otherwise not an issue at all."
So yeah, I agree with you 100%...its not true copy and paste. It is however an alternative. And I know no matter what microsoft does, if they miss one step it comes out to be a deal breaker. But come-on, This is pushing it. I honestly sat there and watched almost (again I say almost) every copy and paste feature put to test, and the only thing it cannot do (copy from browser to insert elsewhere) ends up being like the worlds biggest issue. I have brought up some other FAAAAAAAR bigger issues, as well as provided some good reasoning and insight as to a lot of other system functions and we keep coming back to this extremely small issue. I honestly didn't know that so many people copy and paste from the browser. According to MS, people just don't do that, but apparently all the people who "do do that" are all on XDA...lol. But I guess that makes you right, though, people should be able to copy from the browser and paste elsewhere. Unfortunately WP7 won't support that at launch. What else can I say?
~style1~
No they don't provide an alternative, they provide alternatives to some use cases. No, copy from browser to insert elsewhere isn't the only use case, there have been numerous examples I won't copy here, you're just not paying attention to what people say.
No there aren't bigger issues as many of those can be resolved by hacking. C&P can't.
I personally find copy and paste indispensable and use it daily. One of the places I use it is to copy the website address and paste it into my mail and share it with my friends. Sometimes, I also copy of some useful information from the website to save it into my note application for future references. Then there are some forums that I visit daily where the only way to reply with quote is to highlight and copy the portion of the post first. Bottom line is copy and paste is completely necessary. MS has not done the research thoroughly or given it enough thoughts IMO.
As to multitasking, I almost always have more than one third party programs running. One of the scenarios is to listen to my favourite internet radio (which are oversea stations sometimes) while reading my 1000+ entries in my RSS google reader newsreader application.
Let's hope MS read these posts and come to their senses.
Hey!!! Just see new GSMARENA review about Windows Phone 7 that published Today:
http://www.gsmarena.com/windows_phone_7-review-521.php
i think a noob kid write this review:
Main disadvantages:
No system-wide file manager
No videocalling
Limited third-party apps
No Bluetooth file transfers
No USB mass storage mode
No memory card support
No multitasking
No copy paste
Too dependent on Zune software for computer file management and syncing
No music player equalisers
No Flash or Silverlight support in the web browser
No sign of free Bing maps Navigation so far
No DivX/XviD video support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
from today, nobody will trust gsmarena
lol talk about being a noob, why not take the time to refute his points instead of slobering all over the keyboard?
just a thought
They also said a lot of good things about WP7. Don't forget that.
There's nothing to refute about these points. Absolutely awesome, amazing review! GSMArena know their business.
Final Words
Windows Phone 7 is a great OS. Windows Mobile tried to squeeze a desktop-like OS in your pocket but that never quite worked. The seventh iteration of Microsoft’s mobile operating system takes a different approach – instead of loads of features through a complicated (and not very well thought out) user interface, it puts simplicity and usability first and then tries to add as much functionality as possible without making a mess out of the whole thing.
And it has worked – Windows Phone 7 looks like nothing we’ve ever used before, yet we never felt lost or confused. The most obvious thing works 80% of the time and the few tips sprinkled here and there taught us nice but not so obvious tricks without getting in the way.
Speaking of looks, Windows Phone 7 has unique aesthetics. Parts of it are absolutely gorgeous. It stays away from the faux 3D look for interface elements and instead keeps things flat but visually appealing. It’s the kind of look you’d find in a magazine or a well designed minimalist web site.
Sure there were some of us that didn’t like it. All the superfluous animations, UI elemnts flying in or out, they seemed too much at times. Not to mention those big headings that never did fit on a single screen.
Well, for those of you that feel attracted by the new Windows Phone looks, we’ll just say you’d be glad that it not only looks good but it’s also really simple to use. All the UI elements are designed so that the essential things draw your eye in while less important bits and pieces are smaller to avoid distraction.
But this level of simplicity is also limiting. Sure, you can do most things alright but some things are just out of reach. Copy and paste for one, even the limited number of colors for highlighting in Word, the inability to manage files that the phone doesn’t support and so on.
It’s not just the UI limitations though – the OS has limits too. We couldn’t even connect the phone in mass storage mode and the lack of Flash or Silverlight in the web browser was disappointing. To get rid of multitasking after all these years is a questionable move too, but not necessarily a deal breaker. It didn’t get in the iPhone’s way to success, did it?
Hubs are a great idea that will reduce the dependence on multitasking – a hub will aggregate related content from different apps, so there’s no need to switch between them. However, we’re a little worried that they might go the way of the Live folders in Android. They were another great UI idea, but most vendors and app makers tend to keep their content to their own apps.
The same thing might happen to Windows Phone 7 and its hubs – there are plenty of reasons for app makers to want you to use their app rather than have it share a hub with multiple others apps (brand recognition, ads, you name it).
If Microsoft was to put Windows Phone 7 on phones of the Kin kind, they would have been a hot sale. Great interface with seamless Facebook integration sprinkled with a few other handy services like the Zune Marketplace and SkyDrive.
However, the imposed minimum hardware requirements for a phone to qualify for WP7, practically guarantee that each and every one of them will be an expensive high-end phone.
And if you’re paying big, you’d expect high-end functionality. But Windows Phone 7 falls short of expectations on several occasions – Android 2.x and iOS 4.x will wipe the floor with it as far as power users are concerned.
For Facebook, web browsing and music though it’s the cream of the crop. There are no WP7 phones officially unveiled yet so we can’t be certain of pricing, but carrier subsidies will probably be a must.
And while 1GHz CPU and a high-res screen command a high price right now, Microsoft has its eye on the future. In a couple of years those minimum requirements will move to the mid range and Windows Phone 7 will have had time to make its name as a guarantee for a solid user experience.
So, in the short term WP7 won’t overshadow Android or iOS, but it will be big in the future. Some market analysts even predict that it will push Microsoft’s mobile OS market share to iOS levels by 2014 (with 2010 all but gone, that’s just 3-4 years in the future).
Now we just have to sit tight and wait for the official WP7 unveiling event this upcoming Monday, on 11 October, 02:00PM, London time. You can bet we’ll be covering it for you.
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anhyeuemmaimai said:
lol talk about being a noob, why not take the time to refute his points instead of slobering all over the keyboard?
just a thought
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The OS will ship with thousands of apps and it's only dependent on the zune software when it comes to media.
Maybe it was just me but I thought there review was excellent... I mean it was 7 pages long and picked every little thing about the OS apart. Whenever I want a review that is almost completely unbiased and very well done, I always go to gsm arena. If you look at most of their cons, they are pretty valid points. You don't have to agree with them that they're big enough to make you want to not buy the phone, but they are valid cons.
crow26 said:
There's nothing to refute about these points. Absolutely awesome, amazing review! GSMArena know their business.
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dear. 95% of gsmarena's readers are not professional...
noob users just see first page and say: wow! windows phone dont have copy and paste! wow . windows phone 7 don't have multi tasking. i hate it
this is xda and alls are professional... but...
i am moderator in bigest irani forum about mobile.(mobilestan . net) .. after this review all noob users say: "hmmm i hate windows phone because it dont have copy paste and multi tasking and video calling and .... ! so we migrate to android.... "
who say that windows phone dont have copy paste and multi tasking and ... ?
these are lie
well... whats wrong with the review.. it is the obvious truth.. isnt that what a review is all about. Tell all good and bad... and let ppl decide.. good on ya GSM..
I thought it was a great review. I'd also love to see the platform hit 25% user base, that'd be a nice load of apps.
I'll tell you what, if you told me a year ago that I'd be an avid Bing user, migrating most of my Gmail actions to Hotmail, and being absolutely pumped about the idea of a Microsoft phone, I'd have slapped you and called you crazy. I dig Microsoft's direction lately.
Honestly, it's one of the best reviews ever.
Great and correct review.
So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
I guess it's safe to say that WP7 won't be a next Kin simply because of a much higher level of commitment, resources and funds from Microsoft. Whether it will catch up with Android in terms of overall market share - who knows.
Re apps, there are ways to check out whether the platform has the specific apps you need. You can use Bing visual search to browse through the Marketplace, install Zune software on your PC, and there's also some third party site that allows you to browse apps (wp7appslist.com or something like that). It doesn't really matter whether they have a billion apps or 15, they need to have the ones you need, I think.
The whole SD card thing is a real mess indeed. Samsung Focus seems to be the only phone where you can realistically replace the card, but there's a list of cards that work and a list of cards that don't here on xda, check it. I personally would prefer built-in flash as it's noticeably faster, but obviously 8GB is just ridiculous. There are some phones that are announced to have 16GB, don't know whether they are available for you.
Zune: I like Zune WiFi sync.
MicroSD: If you must have removable SD, don't buy WP7. Even the ones for which you can/might be able to put in your own microSD, the card is locked to the phone and you can't swap out the card without reinitializing the phone.
Apps: WP7 is at 3,000 or something like that now. WP7 has many of the big title games that are on iOS that are NOT on Android; WP7 is insanely easy to program little apps for, and uses XNA for professional game development (same platform as Xbox). So, I think you'll see lots of high quality apps. iOS may have 300k apps, but TONS of the apps are useless garbage.
Who knows to what degree WP7 will succeed or fail? I am certain MS is committed to the platform. On the subject in general though, look how RIM and Symbian were king of the hill and how quickly have lost market share -- the same can happen to Android and iOS. People are not committed to their mobile OS in the same way they are on their computers.
Yea I agree that we dont need a million apps, just the ones we need, Its funny because on my Captivate I only used about 15 apps of the 50 I had anyway, as for the SD Card issue, I dont mind that you cant take it out without resetting I just want to have at least 20gb's not a measly 8gb.
Over in the HD7 forum many people have replaced the 16gb MicroSD card with a 32gb MicroSD Card successfully (using the hidden micro SD Card slot, being careful not to void warranty) , as far as I know only Sandisk cards work though.
Also, you can use SDCards after they've been in a WP7 but you need to stick it in a Symbian Running Nokia to reformat it first. I would imagine after the next update Microsoft will come out with some sort of app for this.
My sandisk class 4 16GB card is working very well in my Focus.. no complaints so far.
As for your other questions..
The Zune software is very nice.. and wireless syncing is an option for music, photos, etc.
They are up to around 3,000 apps..
As for updates, the first big one is planned for January.. the carriers do have the final say on an update being released, but the delays (if they happen) should be nothing like android.. because OEM and carrier customizations to the OS have been limited to applications that can be uninstalled and special sections in the marketplace. Microsoft has supposedly set up duplicates of the carrier tests in their own test labs so they can preemptively test updates and know if an update is going to pass the carrier test or not.. and provide the results to the carrier.
Microsoft is delivering the updates either OTA or via the Zune software.. but the carriers still have the final say.
I don't anticipate any delays, though.. unless there are problems with the update. As the owner of a Samsung Vibrant.. I can safely say that I will not miss that aspect of Android one bit..
Thanks for all the replys guys! The more I think about it, the more I want to get the Focus. I will admit, Ive been used to Android for a while now but it shouldnt be so bad, seeing as I have been using my bros spare 3GS, it does what I need it to do....but still just not a fan of how iphone is set up, and the syncing process is just....ugh....I just hope Zune isnt like itunes...
i was also in your boat last week. I was an avid android user and recomended it to all my friends. i had the hd2 with 6.5 and it was meh to say the least, but my new HD7 is amazing and i now tell those friends to get WP7 phones.
the UI is great and intuitive, and for being the first version of WP7... it rocks!
The market is still beta, but give it time and im sure it will florish. Like Talys said, apps are super easy to make so its only a matter of time.
i also love zune. first time using it when i got the HD7. Wireles syncing is so convienient! keeps all my music fresh and different everytime i charge my phone.
I jumped ship and not looking back. WP7 is amazing!
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
solidkevin said:
What about Playing Divx files? Possible?
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Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
The Gate Keeper said:
Zune takes care of most of the common video files and converts them for you.
I'll clarify a few things for you from the posts above and focus it on your original post.
Zune itself is a little different to get use to compared to other media players, but it's quite lite in running, and grows on you over time. it's very well presented and works far better than iTunes that's for sure. It actually closes properly with huge libraries (try it on iTunes and watch the processes on your PC, see how long iTunes takes to close...).
MicroSD... it is definitely confusing, but from all the chatter, if you're after space, buy the Focus, use a Sandisk/Kingston class 4 32GB card, and you'll have a total of 40GB (8gb onboard). This trumpts the iPhone 4's 32GB offering. Which takes care of your space issues. And given you're in the US, get a Zune Pass and you get unlimited streaming of music (only limited to your carrier, don't want to blow your phone bill), and you get to keep 10 songs a month which is within the Zune Pass subscription.
Apps are growing, they're just about to pass 3,000. As a developer, i'm starting to get my head around windows phone. if you want to develop, it's far easier for windows phone than any other platform, and there is a lot of support online from MS and the community in terms of C# and silverlight (which is where you'll start). If you're not a dev, there are a lot of well known apps already available, and more coming by the day (e.g. wordpress is rumoured to be working on a wp7 app, which should be great for those who are constant bloggers).
Updates, yes carriers can block them, but only 1 round. Let me give you an example, say MS says that we have an update coming Jan, but at&t haven't finished testing with this update, they can ask MS to not deploy to their phones, and MS will not. Then MS comes along (let's say in may [made up]) and says, we have another update. the update that at&t asked not to deploy will be included with this, and at&t cannot ask for it to not be deployed. So you will at most be 1 update behind. This is awesome because not only does it ensure the carrier's can have their say, but in the end the end user will ultimately get the update, and not be left shafted like they do with Android. With Android, i'm sure you've experienced it already, but devices easily get left out in the cold when OEMs and Carriers are trying their best to push new products, and not worry about the older ones. And this is where you have to then start joining xda community and start rooting your phone to just keep it up to date, but then you don't really have a consistent experience and it requires you always checking back here, and in some cases flashing nightly.
As for whether it will be around for the long haul, MS has put HEAPS into this, a lot more than the kin (verizon is rumoured to bring the kin back anyways), and they've done the UI to most extent and now can focus on improving the current set of already high quality features, and bringing in new ones. This is all uniform across any windows phone. so when you go to pick up a different windows phone you can be assured you already know how to use it (yes... the iPhone style experience, but it does work and work well). And what would you prefer... a start screen that may look a bit bland at the start, but once you pin things you really want to it, it colours up... or have a sea of app icons to filter through to find that 1 thing you want... only to realise you hit the wrong icon when you get there (what I see a lot with my iPhone friends). Don't get me wrong though, I am a bit of a fan of different start screens that Android provides, but then you have to have all these widgets, and finding the right one can take forever, and if the widget isn't programmed right, it could be more problematic (causing instability, inconsistency in experience, and possibly even loss of battery).
In the end, each has their strengths and weaknesses, that's for sure. WP current weakness is the lack of apps, not all the common features in (custom ringtones as an example), and multi-tasking which everyone seems to have a big deal about now. Like i said on a different thread, when considering a windows phone, know what you do a lot of, find out if you can do it in windows phone, and if not, are you willing to give it up. Not to say that you won't be able to do it period, it could come in the form of an update, but look at it from the here and now, and then also would you be happy waiting till that rumoured update.
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Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
solidkevin said:
Excellent man! Awesome post, Ive decided that WP7 it is! Funny how things change....a couple of weeks ago I was telling my bro how Great Android is and how I would never get an iphone or a WP, Ive been literally all day though researching WP and like you said the things that are missing will come in future updates.
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Click to collapse
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
solidkevin said:
So yea I have been a long time Android user and I have had no interest in WP7 after using WM6-6.5, not an iphone guy either, Android just feels right at home for me, so anyway a couple weeks ago my Captivate fell and broke, now I need a new phone, Naturally Android was my first choice and I decided that I was gonna wait for the Olympus that is heavily rumored for ATT in Jan, So all is well....until I see a WP7 commercial and it hits me! "You know what! Lemme check this out, lets see if this is even gonna last against Android and iOS" I tell myself, so I hope on my laptop and start checking out the phones and looking at UI breakthroughs/reviews. At first I thought the UI was a little weird but as the review went on I started liking more and more! Now I think hands down its the best looking OS on a mobile (I used to give that to WebOS), so with the combination of the great looking and fast UI, Single OS and updates across all phones which is important to me because as a heavy android user that has had many Android phones, I can tell you a lot of Custom UIs just SUCK, and most of these phones arent future proof as without rooting you will never get an update.
Im really interested but there are some things that do worry me, first of all I still love android and Im still trying to choose which one.
At first I was really annoyed that you have to use the Zune software to add music, Vids, Pics etc, but I guess its not as bad as that crap they call iTunes.
Wtf is up with all this MicroSD card talk? This is something that is very important to me as I listen to a LOT of music and need that extra memory, If I get WP7, The Focus is the phone I will get, but I need to know my MicroSD will work.
How about the Apps, I have yet to check out the Apps on the Zune Software but how fast do you think MS will catchup? I mean WP7 at 1000, Android at 100,000, and iOs at 300,000, quite a big gap.
Updates are very important to me, I hate to feel like I have an outdated phone, will MS send out the updates or do we have to wait for the Carriers?
And finally the biggest and most important question of all, will WP7 succeed, at this point it looks like WP7 is already at a high level in terms of UI and everything in its infancy stages, but is that enough? Will it ever catch up to Android and more importantly iOS? Will it catch on with the people? This wont be another Kin right? lol
Overall Im VERY interested and seriously considering the jump, there are some minor things that I wanna see fixed and there are some things holding me back such as the MicroSD issue (very important to me as 8gb is not enough for me), and the Olympus (waiting to see how it is).
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Click to collapse
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
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Click to collapse
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
truffle1234 said:
there are so many threads like this on this forum.... i dont get it why ppl want to load Android on WP7 still...
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
come on guys if you put your self in the shoes of Microsoft you will do the same thing.... why you should allow ppl to load some other OS on your device... when microsoft have spant time, money and effort in developing a new OS (i will not say good or great as i know time will tell what WP7 will do)
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Click to collapse
Ok.....next time try reading the thread first before responding
lqaddict said:
Umm, did you actually read the OP???
The person wants to use WP7 as a WP7 device not to load Android on it.
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Click to collapse
yea, he said he is coming from android and looking at windows phone.
As an owner of several devices ranging from all 4 generations of the iPhone, Dell Streak, Nexus One, HTC G2 and my most recent device the Samsung Focus I must say that the OS is just plain slick. The OS is fast and very responsive. I struggled with the whole micro sd card issue to and just went out on a limb and purchased the Transcend class 2 32gb from Amazon.
I installed the card per the instructions and had a total storage of 36.90 GB after the format was completed. I have had no problems with the phone at all without a certified micro sd card.
The phone is great, my only problem is I have to get used to how easy the phone is to use. It's very intuitive once you forget that it's not android or ios. No looking back for me.
I have tried the lot, wm5, wm6, wm6.5, web0s, android and iOS (on an iPad). Wp7 is the best for me, even with it's current limitations.
truffle1234 said:
the Memory card issue is to stop ppl loading Android on WP7 device... and i beleive its here to stay...
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Click to collapse
The memory card thing makes sense given what they're trying to achieve.
1. They want to make it simplier for the consumer, when the consumer installs an app they don't see Onboard/My Storage/SD Card. It's arcane to the general consumer; The consolidated space makes it easier to understand.
2. Allows flexibility to OEM to choose whatever storage mechanism they see fit eg: NAND, SD Card
The Gate Keeper said:
disclaimer -P): there is no guarnetee that the features you want will be coming in an update any time soon, but hopefully a lot of the ones you desire (and the rest of us) will. but all we can do is wait and actually see.
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Click to collapse
Personally, the biggest updates i wanna see is an iOS style of multitasking, and copy paste. Everything else, like apps for example will just take time.
Ive showed my support by getting one myself, most, no, ALL people who have seen my phone are impressed with it. there are also tons of GOOD reviews for WP7 and the devices themselves have received good reviews....so what going wrong? anything we can do?
Open up the API so we can develop more useful applications for the phone!
From a uk perspective, there are 2 issues IMHO.
1) the marketing, not visible enough and not helped by sales staff in carrier shops and online not knowing about wp7 and/or actively selling against it. All the phone shops in my loca mall still have huge iPhone 4 banners in the window and that was launched months ago.
2) if anyone does get as far as thinking about getting a wp7, they come to a site like this to research it and are immediately greeted by loads of posts about wp7 being crap because you can't sync with outlook 1995 via a piece of string attached to a commodore PET running dos 1.0, and WP7 being crap cos you can't load custom roms etc.
I like wp7 and I want Microsoft to fill the gaps with the missing features, what concerns me is that if all the negativity results in poor sales, MS will have less incentive to spend money on the platform. We have to "evangelise" with positive posts on forums like this highlighting the many good features of the platform, and where we criticise, it should be constructive. I have used all the main mobile OS's, I think wp7 has the most promise and am proud to say I am a fan.
you are spot on! the UK marketing is EXTREEMLY poor and whats with 8GB?? how can we make MS take notice of whats really going on over here in the UK?
I havev16gb on my hd7, I don't use it all (only 4th at the mo).
go into t-mobile stores and tell the reps how much you like it. It seems like T-Mobile employees have been instructed to be anti-WP7. The 3 stores I went to to buy a case, screen protector, and the phone itself all seemed to bring up the problems with WM 6.5 when I was looking at the phones.
All of them were also surprised that I liked the phone alot and couldn't believe I used to have a nexus one and then a vibrant. When I bought the phone the sales rep kept trying to talk me out of it also. I've also seen plent of people posting the same comments about t-mobile here on this forum.
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
One of the things I find disheartening is the misunderstanding that 7 can't do something just because the 6.5 way to do that job can't be copied over. Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
To reiterate what has been said already, those of us that have actually used 7 need to get out there a lot more and help answer questions and concerns, especially when they're just flat-out wrong or based on misunderstanding. If anything, that's what's gonna help with understanding of adoption of the platform.
As far as success goes, though, I don't really see any need for worry. MS is obviously expressing a serious desire to compete here, and is laying out the resources to do it right. They did it with the Xbox when folk thought they were crazy and couldn't possibly break into that market, and they're coming in fierce with 7 now.
At this point, we only need to be honest. Let it be known what you like and dislike, and help folk around you to make informed decisions.
Also, have lots of fun playing with the things. People respond well to information, but a smile is also very telling, and infectious.
FL5 said:
Case in point: MyPhone. There are plenty of threads where folk get riled up because they can't believe that MS could forget to make 7 compatible with MyPhone! What's even more disturbing is the lack of responses in those threads about how MyPhone is utterly obsolete now due to Live.
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That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
jeffgeno said:
That's not true. There's no document or text message backup with Live. Those are critical features that must be implemented to make it a real My Phone replacement.
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I like how you dismissed everything pertinent in that post to pick out that one part to whinge about, managing to both miss the point entirely and not contribute to the topic.
That being said, I guess I need to look into how to back up SMS. Not something I usually worry about, as I view SMS as disposable data (and partly because winmo got me used to having to clear SMS to prevent lag. Not really relevant anymore, I suppose), but it might be handy info in case I need to answer a question.
Buy games and apps on the marketplace. If this phone is going to survive we need developers writing quality apps. When you do download an app/game rate it and leave comments. Even if the app/game is free let the developer know there's interest in it.
this thread is a repeat of before... but as i said before... the best way to get people into windows phone is to let them use yours. i've shown my phone to a lot of my friends and all of them really like it. a lot of them iPhone users. let them play with your phone, the messaging, email, even facebook app. it's a risk to you cause they could do stuff to your wall but in the end it shows them what it's like. sure, they're not rushing out to buy it now, but at least it's now in their sights and they can think whether they'll stick with the sea of icons, or have a river of them (jokes of course, river being the app list... come on MS implement serach...).
It's really up to MS and the hardware partners.
Case in point..the new Nexus phone for Android from Samsung. The prototype for this phone has been around for a while. Why wasn't this also the Samsung's WP7 offering? 16 GB storage and a sweet body.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Focus, but seeing that Nexus made me cuss a bit.
HD7 - screen issues. HTC surround - speakers are a gimmick and again, lousy screen - compared to the S-Amoled of the Focus. Kick ass hardware is a must.
MS needs to get on the ball and get updates out fast and regular. They have to keep WP7 users interested and invested. That means better communication with us. Let us know in no uncertain terms what is being worked on and it's progress.
If people are confident that MS will keep upgrading/updating the OS, they will jump on board.
Get those missing features into the OS. Roll out those performance enhancements - for God's sake fix the issues with MarketPlace! It's hard enough to be behind on features, MS also has to integrate stuff that's ahead of the competition.
Advertising - the ads for WP7 are not getting the job done. Granted, it's tricky to advertise a brand new OS that's suppose to get MS back in the game while the OS itself is behind the others in features, but there is a huge market out there that won't miss those features. Show the People and Photo hubs in action..show the FB integration in greater detail.
Of course, open up the APIs. I cannot fathom why this is seemingly not a priority.
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
votum said:
WP7 suffers from the same issues as Zune did. If they don't open the API then WP7 will fall by the wayside just like Zune.
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Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
lekki said:
Don't know what you're talking about but I love my Zune HD and use it daily.
As for Zune falling by the wayside, it's on Xbox and WP7. It's all around and it's somehow on the wayside somewhere? Be real.
As for the APIs, devs seem to be so lazy anyway, I doubt open APIs will bring about the AP revolution you think will happen.
Even offerings from MS have been half-hearted. A lot of APs really could have benefited from the Live Tile technology but for some reason, chose not to implement it.
Devs need to love or at least appear to love what they're doing if we want quality apps.
Apps done right are a joy on my HD7 and I do not regret buying this phone at all. It's just pleasant surprise after pleasant surprise with this OS and I expect the manufacturers of handsets to step up to the bar after they realize it's here to stay. MS will continue to invest heavily in mobile as it is the way of the future. We've only had WP7 for not even 2 months, give it time!
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I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
orangekid said:
I dunno man,
ask 100 people if they have a Zune or an iPod and or use Zune or iTunes and see what the response is...
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you have a point in that the market is flooded with iPod/iPhone which results in more people using iTunes (so it's a bit of a loaded question).
but yea, as good as the Zune is for those that have it, the marketing that Apple does is just a lot better. I think it was wise that MS move their Zune to windows phone. It is a really good peice of software and many find it better than iTunes (on Windows). But of course, if you have an iPhone (or i product) you're locked into using iTunes, as you are with windows phone. So this is why the numbers for iTunes are so high. If that wasn't the case, there would be far fewer people using iTunes that's for sure.
blahism said:
What are some creative apps that can be done quickly to fill in gaps?
I'd say one way to get some sustainability is to work with companies that currently have iphone/droid apps and offer services to help deliver a WP7 app - either through custom work for them directly or seeking out a new open source project/effort.
i've been communicating with NPR myself to get the framework for an open source npr app. If people go to npr.com and see a winodws phone app listed there they may feel a tad more comforatable that their phone is feature rich and relevent. Same could be said for other popular institutions that have apps available where there is no current wp7 branding
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there is a npr app in the marketplace. good reviews too.
Have you read about Brandon Watson's challenge to Molly Wood? What about her first impressions? Do you feel her complaints are valid?
Please don't derail this thread into an Android/W7 argument (again!), she happens to have lots of followers and any of her criticism will resonate with many and in my opinion will help address some things faster (some things she hasn't discovered yet so try to give a her break on that).
I'm not running Mango so I'd like to hear from people who do and know if they agree with what she has to say.
http://news.cnet.com/molly-rants/
The only problem with her review is that too many of her "cons" are simply based on ignorance (and I don't mean that in a pejorative sense). She didn't know the correct way to do something on WP7, and tried to apply Android techniques. When they didn't work, she assumed that the feature was either broken or missing.
If her followers read those criticisms and assume she is right, it may prevent them from giving WP7 a fair chance on their own.
Yep. Tis already begun. Two commenters have said they won't buy based on "Molly's impressions" and "little annoyances" she's described.
Her only real beef should be with the navigation. Outside of that, she has an argument as to comparitive number of apps. Yet, she hasn't explored the marketplace thoroughly enough to actually talk about what's there. She just knows two apps she uses aren't there.
I'd give her some time with it and I'm certain she'll clear up some of the things she's already posted which are incorrect.
She will... She complained before on her podcast about not having an app for facebook chat then corrected it on her blog after she was told it's built-in. Hopefully the listeners also read the blog, otherwise some might be a lost cause already.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
I'm really glad she's made such a fuss over the navigation and I really hope Microsoft pay attention. It's bloody stupid as it is - not matter what the reasons may be (I've heard licencing issues?) Microsoft need to sort this out.
She has some other valid points, but she hasn't (as she admits) touched upon a lot of the more unique features of WP7.5
Casey
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
Sent from my Samsung Omnia 7 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Peew971 said:
Apparently turn by turn is indeed due to licensing issues but with Nokia owning Navteq this should be sorted in Tango (hopefully) or Apollo.
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I sure hope it is, because as it now stands, you can guarantee that it will be the cause of a lot of mocking from Android users. And comments such as this one I read on the article page aren't going to help much either:
Well Molly I have to say I actually enjoy the navigation. Think about it, if everyone's satnav did this, that commercial where the guy is driving his car and his wife calls and then the satnav (which is a woman's voice, btw) goes, 'Motel is on the right' and the wife goes, 'MOTEL?!? **CLICK**' that would never happen. While I agree it is a bit of an annoyance, I like it better. And it's fun when it congratulates you. Didn't you say you like the "pretty sounds?" Well when you do something right, it makes a pretty sound. so, please don't harp on what is probably the best implementation of navigation in the history of cell phones. Also, The thing I don't like about other satnav implementations, is that they get annoying. "In 1.5mi. turn left onto Camino St. then turn left onto Avery Avenue" then .25 mi later it says nearly exactly the same thing. For me what's great about the Mango implementation is that you only have to listen to the annoying computerized lady voice when you forget what your next turn should be. That's the brilliance of the Mango implementation.
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It's one thing to defend Microsoft for having no choice but to implement the system as it is due to licensing issues, but it's quite another to try to make the absurd claim that this system is better in any way. It's not.
it wasn't a biased or negative critique. id say it was spot on, by a regular user trying to use it as a daily driver. speaking of daily driver, I had no idea navigation was so broken. ugh !
yes, ios and android are mentioned .... if you are surprised or annoyed by this, smell some coffe. ios and android are dominating the market for a few reasons, this review sheds light on them.
improve and enjoy some success microsoft !
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
Peew971 said:
The verdict is in, it's a 50/50. I read what she had to say and find her point about Skydrive fair. It needs to have a proper app and a desktop client with better functionality. For techies it might be fine but for an average user it's a bit of a mess.
Off to watch her video now...
http://news.cnet.com/8301-31322_3-20094766-256/windows-phone-7-challenge-week-2-the-verdict/?tag=mncol;title
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And also how can an average user FIND OUT that Facebook chat has an inbuilt Messenger?
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
I agree completely. She made so many mistakes and it was obvious she didn't bother researching any of her so called problems. The majority of the stuff she said wrong was corrected in her comments which she clearly didn't read. What a joke.
naplesbill said:
Sorry guys, but this review was amature at best. If you are going to call yourself a writer, and agree to do a test drive of a device, you owe to your readers to find the correct answers to any concerns or misunderstood features of said device. This is where she failed, and this is where CNET always fails.
This is nothing more than letting your Mom or Sister borrow your phone and you then ask them for an opinion. They are not allowed to seek actual advice, from an actually knowledgeable source.
This type of review is a disservice to technology in general. That is my opinion and that is why I do not use CNET for anything important.
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was Molly Wood ever a man ?
Professor Simon Peach said:
was Molly Wood ever a man ?
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I dunno, but the poor girl looks 10 years older than she really is.
And a little less sex in the city marathons with a jar of burbon/jug of martini, and a little more technology knowledge would be nice. Especially for a CNET writer.
Outlook and calendar
Watching a relative of mine having the Galaxy II, then I really understand how far behind email and calendar is... I just can't believe that she couldn't see that!!!
Merging mailboxes with threaded email... Outlook, Gmail, Live and Facebook calendar all in one with different colors... even better than the pc-version
Someone should have assisted her with this... someone who understands the value of it...
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
if she got final mango like everyone else, there is a nice book to help the transition. right in the programs menu. with videos and text to speech for every, single, thing.
Peew971 said:
All that being said maybe it also means WP7 is not as simple as we all think for an average user.
Don't get me wrong, WP7 is very simple and intuitive but if you need a manual to understand some features then it means it could be made simpler.
Maybe it's because she was coming from Android rather than say a feature phone and had expectations but the point remains. And she's right about Skydrive/Turn by Turn.
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I agree.
If a person is coming from a standard phone to WP7 their impressions will be different, then those coming from another platform. I personally don't find any of the OS's easier or harder to use they're just different, with their own learning
curve. All reviewers bring their own personal bias into reviews IMO. The question is whether you think WP7 is better, not equal to other platforms. If you ask that type of question you have to take the good with the bad.
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
phoneguy 4567 said:
The map directions tapping is silly, MS should have known better then to even bother to include such a poorly implemented feature. If they don't have the rights to do it properly then don't do it.
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Than, they'd complain there's no default/built-in Turn by Turn Navigation. This is a no win scenario. People have to realize that MS was severely neutered by that anti-trust law suit. Now they are alot less aggressive & very careful so they are not sued again in this manor. Besides, people forget the 3rd Party apps like Garmin/etc & the fact that Nokia's map app is coming. The Mango Turn by Turn Navigation is nothing more than a way to tie people over till that comes.
Now, don't get me wrong, WP7 & Mango are far from perfect, but MS is working on it. They just posted a job listing to bring better PC/WP7 USB syncing of docs/etc.
Finally! Microsoft planning to connect Windows Phone and the desktop
Molly is supposed to be a power user btw, & she got so many things wrong in her review. I have to wonder if she even tried. It took her 2 weeks to set up WP7, it took me 2 hours tops. She must of never looked in the Office/Pictures Hub as she claims there's no Skydrive integration. Her review is nothing more than a joke. Scott Adams did a better review & he's an "average user," go figure.....
I think the only thing Molly can do now is to read up and post another review along the lines of "When I learnt how to use it" which should correct most of her errors.
Of course, as has been pointed out, if she genuinely made these errors then there must be a reason...(and I'm not going to say she's stupid).