Related
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
I am not active in the Dream forum, but I will add my thoughts here.
Certain sections of XDA's forums are subject to stricter moderation then others due to the sheer volume of active members in them. For example, the Raphael has seen a US release on all three nationwide carriers, whereas the prior models only saw release on one carrier. This led to more people buying the Raphael, and a large influx of members in the related forums. Due to that influx, we moderators needed to step up our monitoring of those forums in order to keeping them as clean and concise as possible.
This same example applies to the Dream due to it being the first Android phone released.
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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NotATreoFan said:
While I agree with you that a moderator should always leave a quick note as the final post in a closed thread, I also support closing down redundant threads in order to help keep all relevant information in an existing thread; not spread across 5 or 6 different ones.
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Just thought I would add my two cents in here ( like anyone cares ) because I too have been irritated once or twice by over zealous moderation. Once by a moderator from the Dream forum who came over to the Kaiser forum to delete a whole conversation, because he " thought " we were getting too heated in our debate over M$ supposed actions . There was no flamebaiting, He just thought.
And several times by threads ( not mine ) that were closed without warning or stated reason. I know this is a huge site with a lot of heavy traffic and the Mods are " overworked and under paid " . I also realize that Mods are from around the world, and Moderation style is subject to differing personalities, social and interpersonal customs from different countries. But common courtesy is universal. While many people don't deserve it, please take the time to include a note on why, the thread requires moderation. If you don't have the time , then maybe you should pass the job on to someone who can take the time.
Also in my 1 1/2 years on this site, ( six mo lurking and 1 yr member ) I have PM'd three mods, asking them to please explain their actions in moderating a thread I was posting in, and in all three cases, received nothing, not even an acknowledgement.
This is not a criticism, just my two cents, should someone read this. I have my favorite mods, (natf is one ) Dave and Josh are excellent in the Kaiser forums, mostly because they adhere to the basic tenet, " Moderation in Moderation. "
mikechannon said:
I realise you are being modest there, and the truth is we do care what members think and voicing concern in a calm fashion is appreciated and this kind of feedback is what moderates the Moderators. This is what makes us a community and avoids an "us and them" situation developing.
I don't have anything of value to add to NotATreoFan's comments which match my own feelings on the matter and IMHO reflect the kind of balance we need between being tolerant, courteous and yet maintaining a degree of organisation.
Mike
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Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
denco7 said:
Thanks for taking that in the context that it was meant, I know that Admin and Mods do care what membership thinks.
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AND they are simply men and women They could make mistakes, they act differently in the same situation. Suggestions and opinions are always welcome!
i reckon there should be a new button next to the report post button that serves as an appeal button if someone thinks that a tread has been closed for no reason the the button should allow for appeal. a box is filled n explaining the thread and why there was no reason to delete it this is then pmd to the closer of the thread then negotaiations will start
Please do not take my original post too harshly. I do appreciate the mods here on XDA-developers and think that they do a great job. But at the same time when the mods get a little over zealous this seemed the best way to bring up my protest. (I could not PM the moderator in question because I do not know who was closing the threads.)
So thanks again for making this a great place to come back to over the years and keep up the good work.
JanetPanic said:
What is going on with the moderation in the Dream forums? I have been coming here for quite a few years now, though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.
In the past on the other subforums locking a thread was fairly rare and moderation more in tune with keeping it civil than anything. Moderators kept the peace but left topics and threads to being mostly self-governing. Occasionally a thread would get moved to off topic or the rebellious user warned but nothing like this. About a dozen threads in the last week, six in the last two days alone.
It seems any thread that the moderators feel is a repeat or not needed is locked. There is no warning or explanation by the moderators, just a lock. Instead of educating the user, search first with a link to what the user should have looked for as an example, the discussion is left in limbo. This is making the forum more of a moderated police state than a area for open conversation on topics. This detracts from the ability to have open discussions and the enjoyment of trying to help others.
So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason.
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If you ask me there aren't enough locked threads in the dream section. There are over 80 different threads for the new haykuro build there, 80!!! Probably more because i stopped counting at page 20. I also might add that the main haykuro thread has over 6000 posts and counting. The dream section is out of control and needs serious moderator intervention. One moderator simply cannot do all this himself. I know the dream mod, or at least the only active mod there that i can see and he is excellent at not only helping people but moderating in general. Let a thread be self governed? That's a very scary though!!! I am a moderator at another site and i can say it is not a moderators job to be a friend, be respectful or give you an explaination as to why he or she did what they did. Yes i do give an explaination and most mods on here do as well but they are here to maintain the rules of the forum and the upkeep of the forum in general. If threads were locked its more than likely because you or others got off topic, double posted or started a new thread when another about the exact same thing already existed. Case in point, there is a section for members to post questions to mods about anything already and you opened a new thread on the subject.
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
knight4linux said:
Ha I couldn't agree MORE with Ryanmo. There should be tighter and more rigid controls there. In fact I don't think it's (currently) possible for there to be moderation there at the moment...too many new bodies added to the fray. And we all know most of them are not reading the Sticky posted at top saying "Must read before you post". I don't have any problem with xda mods enacting 1-3 day temp bans on some of the frequent offenders.
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Haha yeah the sticky at the top about the rules says a little over 23,000 views. The hacking thread has been viewed over 300,000 times, go figure. I probably report 15 posts a day to try and help but your right its outta control.
Hello Friends,
Well i have seen these site and i am quite surprise here that though more reading than posting I grant. I have never seen such lock happy moderation before though.As i am not a active member but ya i will add my though if any and will discuss So I am asking the moderators to please show restraint and give the posters more leeway. There is no need to lock every thread that is a repeat or could have been solved by a search. The threads will go off the front page in due time, locking them simply is not constructive more often than not. If you absolutely must lock it then at least put a post at the end with a reason. Thanx
can someone please unlock this thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=429808&page=22
It is not that rules and regulations are not in place in this site. They are posted all over the place. In fact, if you look at my sig, I have them there as a hyperlink (many other members do the same). Why do threads and posts get locked, moved, or otherwise deleted left and right? It is because lots of users (particularly new ones but seasoned users also) do not read these rules. They do not know that they should search before posting or opening new threads; they do not know that there are sections to ask questions that are not relevant to the section they posted at; they do not know that profanity shouldn't be used around here due to a large young crowd; they do not know that flaming (particularly for no apparent reason) is strictly prohibited....
Moderators have little time to be messing around with people who simply do not understand that there are rules that must be followed (or read for that matter). Hence, they close the threads with no previous notice and at times, leave no excuse behind. They don't do it out of the content of their hearts, and they are definitely not watching over every single thread at all times. If you see a thread being closed, it is normally due to someone complaining about it, and more often than not, mods will analyze the trend of the thread and if necessary either warn users to stop, or just flat out close it (normally they warn unless the thread itself is breaking the rules... think of posting warez for instance).
I have yet to see abuse of power by a mod in this forum. And I am pretty sure that if there happens to be a mod that does abuse his/her God-given powers.... let's just say that they will be judged by a higher power
My 2 cents!
Although some moderators try and go out of their way to leave a message as to why they lock a thread, that is not their job. Our job is to make sure people are following the rules.
Here is a little scenario, i log on at night and jump over to the D&H section.... there i find 10 new threads asking questions.
A) I can delete the threads
B) I can close the threads by simply going through and checking every thread and then closing.
C) i can individually open each thread and leave a message for each person
D) i can wait for another moderator to do it
E) move the thread for them
Well i cant delete them or people will think their thread never got posted and just post it AGAIN. If you move peoples threads for them they think they can post anywhere and it will just be moved where it needs to go. I dont have time to open every thread and leave a message for every person everytime, and if i leave it for another moderator, it might not get done.
Really i am only left with checking all of the threads and closing them. if you have a question you can READ the rules, as it is your resonsibilty as a member, and find the answer. (Or of course you can pm a mod)
You guys have to remember that there are over 1,537,526 members on this site and around 66 mods and admin. We do our best to help you guys but we dont always have the time to write a personal letter for everyone of your and put it in you lunch box.
I agree (not that it matters). Mods have absolutely NO responsibility to post why they closed a thread...Why? Because they already are posted...in the rules up top. Its you, the new users that have the resposibility. That responsibility to read the rules before you post (RTFM). It even says at the bottom (of the rules) what will happen if they are not followed.
And by allowing multiple threads of the SAME simple questions (Especially in a phones development section) this completely ruins development and progress, not to mention this is a free and public forum. That means its hosted on servers, and these duplicate threads/posts start to add up.
Trust me. Frequent the forums for more than a few months and it'll start to wear on you too, almost as much as it does to the mods.
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
theslam08 said:
UPDATE:
As of late, there seems to be a lot of issues with the dream section, many many topics on bricked phones, new OS releases, old releases, random topics, and other posts. The title of the forum is Dream android 'development', and its actually hard now to find 'development' scattered in many of the different types of topics in there.
SUGGESTION/RECOMMENDATION:
Make a sub-forum of the development forum (or of the whole dream forum like the current 5 main sub-forums), named something like troubleshooting, or repair, or something like that. That way, anyone with a broken phone can post in there maybe. It might be a bad suggestion simply because the 'helpers' may not check there...but I cant think of a better way to keep the 5 different topics a day saying "I have a different brick problem" organized so actual development [important] topics can stay up top, where they should be.
Anyone with a better idea, express it so something can be done, its quite a mess right now.
[Oh and maybe a description under the android dev. forum something in capital letters saying: be careful, and read everything before taking action!!!, because I think some people end up with bricks because of anticipation and possibly dont read. Just as a [duh] advisory, ya know?]
/rant
Thanks [btw not bashing the mods, its just a bit hectic it seems right now, many things going on there]
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That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
neoobs said:
That has been added as a suggestion and I will push for it again in the mod section.
BTW I am a Dream mod and I am usually the one that closes threads or deletes them. I don't always leave a message because it is more time consuming. I can have an unclean section with everyone getting a response and therefore getting their locked post bumped. Or I can have a cleaner (it will never be clean) section with angry users who didn't search in the first place.
I chose the later by the way.
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Mhm, and you do what you can, I notice somethings being done by you, which is good that something is being done. I used to mod/administrate big places so I know what its like, its a pain when people cant search, or arent sure of where to post so they post anywhere (sometimes in the effort of 'just getting an answer').
This causes the clutter, especially when there are multiple 'different but very similar' type topics being created, and its tricky to know which to close and which not to close. Thats why I think maybe a separate forum 'might' be the best solution, because as of right now, bricks are happening pretty quickly and thats not good (no one to blame, just the anticipation again).
I appreciate the backing, hope 'something' can be done, its just really crowded right now (making the 'new' browsers get lost [causing the multiple similar topic issue], and your job harder).
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
Ryanmo5 said:
One problem is the sticky's need to be updated by the people who started them. Many are older and with 5 different roms available to flash now they simply don't meet the demand for all these different roms. The rom developers need to do a better job of explaining how to flash their roms. The newest one tried to get a little too cute and force a new apps2sd method on users and the result was a lot of looped (not bricked) g1's. The sub forum could consist of how to's and guide's. I'm not sure a sub forum is the best way to go though, There are already 5 and most phones on here don't even have 4. Xda simply need more help with this section, neoobs has been cleaning house and i thank you but you can't do it all lol. I am a moderator on another site, not here but will do what i can to report posts as much as possible to help the mods.
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Agreed 100%, it seems there are alot of stickies there, maybe redundant on some, but are necessary on others. There should be a way to make it distinguishable between information/guides, developments, and problems. They do need to be updated as well.
I agree, a forum might not be the best way because there might be 'lost' posts which would not work either (like the new magic thread that showed up, though I dont dissagree with that simply because the OP is correct, android is android, and the magic needs some help, maybe because we stole quite a bit from it too? lol. but still posting to 'get help' anywhere).
Is there a modification for vb that makes stickies different color than the regular topics? I never administrated vb only ipb and smf so I dont know. But that would be a big help there, then the new comers can instantly see which are informal.
Im trying to report, to help you so you dont need to spend as much time 'looking' as doing the task. Its not 'too' bad right now, when I first posted though omg it was disaster. Once the new rom comes out though....thennn its gonna be biig trouble again.
Update: I was looking at something...the first forum, named Dream. That I was actually looking at for the first time, it seems pretty useless really. A lot of the topics in there could definitely go into the development thread...OR that forum could get changed to something else and cleaned up. There arent many 'general' topics for the phone I dont think, whats general for the phone? What is the g1? Maybe but useless indeed. So maybe instead of MAKING a new forum, just change that one and clean it up. Make it a troubleshooting forum, or a tutorial section, or just updates, or something I dont know. But maybe just better use of it I think.
I'm sure all of you are getting sick of the flood of questions that come in and the single question and answer thread is just too long to go through to find questions let alone answer them. Hopefully we can get enough people on board to let the moderators know that this is a welcome addition. Seeing as how many phones have highest number of threads in the Q&A section, I think it is a worthy addition.
Problems:
1) Lack of moderation - the volume of posts, especially from new users is higher than the what can reasonably be moderated by the current number of moderators.
2) Relevant threads containing real information are buried by new threads (many which are off topic or not posted in the correct forum)
3) The forum is disorganized, which exacerbates the issue of new users asking duplicate, off topic, poor, misinformed questions.
4) There is an incredible lack of information for new users on usage, which creates a contentious atmosphere between new users and senior members who re-answer the same questions over and over, most of the time about HOW to use the forum and search features.
5) User modifiable resources like the wiki are unknown or obfuscated from new and long time members alike, thus rarely used. (On a side note....we should all be using the wiki to push pertinent information, valueable posts, references and guides up so that noobs (and experienced users also) can find them easier.)
Proposed Solutions:
1) Create additional subforums to help organize posts into relevant categories. (I vote for at least Q&A. MOST popular forums on XDA have this, so there is certainly precedent.)
2) Better sticky posts, with clearer titles. "Hello from your moderator." is not as clear to a new user as "[MANDATORY README]-[FORUM RULES][QUESTIONS][INSTRUCTIONS][If you don't read this you will be flamed, harrassed, possibly shanked in your sleep!]" You are reading this thread because of the title...that or you saw the DVDA postfix...you sick sick bastard...either way I win.
3) More moderators. It is far too hard for Whosdaman to constantly update sticky posts with relevant info. It is up to everyone here to get that info out so we aren't bombarded with questions that have been answered a hundred times. Wiki anyone?
4) We have a great resource in user editable wiki. There is a lot of stuff that can be done BETTER on a wiki than in a 1000 post thread, like reference material, guides, and instructions. We need to make it obvious to ALL users that the wiki exists and get people on board with updating it. Threads are a great way to hash out possible solutions and have a group discussion, but a lot of times what people need is a reference or guide and they shouldn't have to search a 1000 post thread to pull the relevant information.
5) Original posters need to update their OP when new information is revealed or when there is misinformation in a post. Having a post that's title says your flash cell is about to explode only to have to read 600 posts to find out that this information is untrue helps no one. Discussion is GREAT. Misinformation is NOT, and only fuels the confusion and duplicate thread issues.
From The Front Line:
Thanks for the outpouring of support and ideas to help get the ball rolling. Several of our ideas have been recently implemented so I am really hoping for some good news next war update.
20110109: Woot! We now have Q&A. Thanks mods and supporters!
20110109: My social experiment of double entendre "sticky posts" has 2000 views in only a couple of days. I'm not going to call this one confirmed, but if it stopped even 1 bad thread it was worth it.
20110109: We have sticky wiki in all the subforums. Now we need to add content to the wiki before people stop using it.
One Last Thing:
There are very few things we can change with regard to how many new users visit this forum, or the knowledge level of these users. The only thing we CAN do is make what they need to do as obvious as possible to these users, so that we can spend more time coding and writing relevant posts, instead of redirecting people to the search button, or frustration flaming newbies.
+1 agreed. This is ridiculous, it's a clusterf**k in these forums. Q & A is exactly what we need.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
I will say yes to the q&a it will cause less clutter.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
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what you are saying isn't wrong but i want one
muyoso said:
No, Q&A IS the general forum. What is needed is a sticky in the general forum with a CLEAR and concise description of how to:
root
use Odin
use clockwork
flash themes
flash roms
battery saving methods
airplane mode trick
DRM services and how to stop them
and ANYTHING else that gets asked multiple times a day. I dont know if some sort of limited moderator status can be granted, but if so it would be nice for noobnl, Daemon and a bunch of others to have said status and be able to update this sticky at any time. I am sure there are a ton of people who would be glad to do it.
Then, what is needed is a sticky called FROYO SPECULATION, where EVERY thread that deals with speculation of the coming Froyo release is moved, and all discussion of that topic is directed.
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That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
plapczyn said:
That is EXACTLY what the Wiki is for. But people either don't know about it, use it, or update it. Anyone can update the wiki. Leaving all of the cleanup to moderators isn't fair, or effective at getting stuff up quickly. There should be better indication to go to the wiki and more people need to start using it.
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Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
muyoso said:
Thats fine, but where the eff is the wiki? A person who just bought their epic and signed up would NEVER find it. There needs to be like a flashing light and have the font in size 4.2 million saying "Epic 4g XDA User Manual" or something like that.
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I agree. Or a sticky at the top of ALL of the subforums linking to the wiki. There used to be a STICKYWIKI post, but the title got changed.
I agree the wiki needs serious editing and updating, and we should all be somewhat responsible. Maybe if you flame a newbie, you have to add a paragraph, like a swear jar smoothone, get typing hahaha.. sorry... had to... but I get the feeling you dont mind.
Honestly, I wish sprint would just say screw you, no froyo. This way, people would move on, keep developing, not thinking to wait on that elusive source code... and stop *****ing. The repeat questions, etc werent that bad until that stupid 26th thing brought a bunch of new people at once, so everyone here who was already waiting and annoyed, then get bombarded with new people who heard about XDA from engadget.
BTW... wheres those two who had those super secret sources?????? Kinda quiet....
Bloggers: do not cite an XDA member, or their word they have a good source unless they show you the goods! Somehow, everyone thinks XDA really knows more than the average joe... and dont trust Sprint sales info or personnel!!!!
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
Instead of making a new forum, we need another moderator added to help manage the forum.
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
othan1 said:
Sure, let's create yet ANOTHER ignored forum that the mod(s) get to monitor and spend more time on while every single new user here ignores it and the search button just to post the question anyway.
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Dumping questions to a Q&A forum creates less clutter for the other forums, thus relevant threads will more likely be in the first two pages.
lazydazed said:
And make a post count minimum to START a new thread!! Too many ppl coming over straight from google and, not knowing how to use xda (or their effen owners manual) to its fullest.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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I love that idea, but there are occasionally relevant posts from new users. I would like to think that not EVERYONE that initially comes to XDA is a moron. But I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy.
It looks like a lot of people are in favor of it.
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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That's ok, as long as the questions aren't in the other forums. But I agree, sticky to the wiki should be on all subforums.
Personally I don't care if the Q&A forum is filled with spam repost topics. All I, and others, want is for the it to be quarantined.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
muyoso said:
The Q&A forum will just be full of people asking the SAME QUESTIONS over and over and over again. Why not just create a sticky that either links to an updated wiki or better yet that lays out nicely how to do basic things with the Epic4g?
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That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
DiGi760 said:
That will happen in any forum. We do need a sticky, but don't expect that to stop the noobs from asking before reading.
I see that some of the other Galaxy phones here on xda have a Q&A in addition to a general section. General is used for general discussion and Q&A is for all questions. It seems like it would be more obvious for noobs to wander into the Q&A section to ask questions and hopefully save the mods some effort while also cleaning up our little corner of this website.
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Exactly my point. Also, as someone mentioned...the cycle of useless questions that cant be prevented will at least be quarantined.
Hello, i wonder if you can grant with moderation priviledges to Recognized devs???
I come from LG Optimus One forum, and as im reading here theres not even a moderator for our forum...
(I wont apply to become a moderator since i dont have time and i've never been a moderator before, so, next...)
Anyway, devs threads are flooded with spam and users askin the same questions again and again and spamming again and again... Old moderator "Zecanilis" performance wasnt good as well (forum was the same with/ without him)...
So i wanted to know if you can grant recognized devs from my forum (like francisco.franco, ciaox, mik_os, andy...) the power to moderate at least his threads...
thx in advance
PS: crap posts are increasing!! --> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1231440
There was recently a recruitment drive for new mods and if that forum currently does not have an fsm assigned then I'm sure one will be shortly.
Check the link in my sig for a comprehensive list of forum mods to see whether one is assigned to your devices forum.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face......
And spam strikes back..
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16949645&postcount=5921
They keep spamming spamming all day, and theres no one there to put order ,, whats the problem on giving some power to recognized devs??
A hero???
Hello??? someone reads this??? is conantroutman the only one there?? hello????
In the meantime:
Striking news: SPAM BEAST TOOK OUR FORUM AND THREATENS WITH EATING IT!!!... Wheres is the hero when we need one (or a bunch [i.e Recognized Devs])
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1233991
Please, we need an active moderator . It is becoming unbearable amount of post about questions that were answered many times, other fights and other spam among other things is in the section of the P500
There is a discussion about that between recognized devs and xda staff... However, conclusion is that RDs can't have these permissions because the abuse is possible - e.g. devs removing bad comments and leave only the glorifying comments and make his work a masterpiece. I can't speak in name of xda staff but I hope it'll be solved somehow, but the problem is that it's hard to find acceptable solution for everyone.
Blagus said:
conclusion is that RDs can't have these permissions because the abuse is possible - e.g. devs removing bad comments and leave only the glorifying comments and make his work a masterpiece.
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Well, its that or spamming... and certainly not all RD's have this glorifying attitude...
Also if they r granted w/ powers just to manage their threads that would not be an issue since general forum exist, reports functions exist, and it would be easy to track a bad developer and bring his work down...
Also the fact that spam users are in a much bigger proportion than RD's...
IMHO...
Garuxa said:
Please, we need an active moderator . It is becoming unbearable amount of post about questions that were answered many times, other fights and other spam among other things is in the section of the P500
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I agree. The lack of an active moderator is the real problem. Giving the RD this responsibility would cause more harm than good.
I found out in the Mods list that we can PM the Senior Mods for reporting for problems, as there is no one assigned. Let´s do so then.
kbzona said:
Well, its that or spamming... and certainly not all RD's have this glorifying attitude...
Also if they r granted w/ powers just to manage their threads that would not be an issue since general forum exist, reports functions exist, and it would be easy to track a bad developer and bring his work down...
Also the fact that spam users are in a much bigger proportion than RD's...
IMHO...
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It has always been the case that moderators who are also developers are not allowed to moderate their own threads.
This is a clear cut conflict of interest.
Bottom line is that RD's will probably never be given such priviledges as that would contradict long standing forum rules.
In other news.....
I'm going to PM MikeChannon (forum admin extraordinaire) and volunteer to help you guys out.
Watch this space.
Thank you Conan, yes, we are hoping to fill Moderator vacancies in a week, maybe two. The Committee that sifts through Moderator Applicants has had an unprecedented number to look through in the last round. Normally we get maybe 20 applicants, but in the last round we got 270 and it's not surprising it's taking longer to process.
Each applicant's posting history, helpfulness and other more general abilities have to be examined carefully and although we know some forums are having to be watched by Senior Mods at present, we think this is better than rushing in Mods who have not been checked thoroughly.
In addition some improvements to help Users report problems more easily will be rolled out soon, so please don't feel we aren't interested or don't care. In the meantime, you can still use the existing reporting system and it will still be seen by Senior Mods even if no Forum Mod is allocated.
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
BretonGirl said:
Hi!
I really enjoy the forum but why is it so hostile to new users? For example, being forced to do a CAPTCHA every time I write a new post, and when I wanted to share my desktop in the share your desktop thread in the Galaxy Tab 10.1 forum I was blocked because I'm new, and then when I went to fix a typo in a post I'd just made, it told me I had to wait FIVE minutes! Believe me, I understand what a problem spammers are. I am a moderator on another tech forum and I used to be a moderator for MTV. I get it. But treating all your new users as if they are spammers and making them jump through hoops or blocking them from being able to do simple things like share a screenshot just gives off a "we hate new users, we know you're all evil spammers so we hope this frustrates you enough to drive you away" vibe.
I understand that your rules are your rules and respect that, and I like it here. I just wanted to put in my two cents about the impression it gives new users.
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even though ive given you a thanks or this, i do believe its set correctly. This forum has soooooo many existing users plus the new ones joining everyday its very suprising how little advertising,spamming goes on here and i do think its contributed by the new user rules.
I myself have only ever been a mod for a 200+ forum and the amount of spam we had to delete each day was a joke, imagine how many links around the web lead to xda....the amount of spam this site would be suffering had they not placed these rules the xda maybe not what we all cherish today
edit "NOTE", lol just wait until you accidentally post in the wrong section
I understand your situation, considering that you have been a forum moderator in other forums
But when I was a new user i never got to enter any captcha or so !
I have no clue that Captcha was being used on XDA to be honest!
But one thing that can help you is that you can answer others's questions in the Q and A forum of the device(s) you own. Helps to get that 10 post thing done early, especially if you know enough to help someone else out
Anyways all the best and you can PM me if you need any more help or you may contact a senior admin
just my 2 (+1) cents p) and Peace!
I've never been a moderator for any forum and even I know the effect spammers can have if the proper procedures don't take place.
But you gotta know, it's only for a few posts...it's not like you'll be entering captcha codes in forever and never be able to share weblinks or screen shots.
Just ride it out, we all had to
Well, this is a touchy subject.
Being such a high traffic forum we really do need aggressive anti spam measures.
As for the restrictions on the development sections.... We'll that's also a touchy subject but for entirely different reasons.
Once upon a time XDA was populated solely by developers, developers who developed for no other reason than the love of developing. Then the smartphone became accessible to more and more people, which led to more and more members who weren't developers. This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development forums.....
That's about it really.. Check out the sticky in this section for a more detailed explanation
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
I appreciate everyone's replies. I have no problem with the 10 posts before getting access to the developer's section. You certainly don't want anything but quality in a section like that.
I also understand the spam issue. One of my day jobs is as a staff writer for a blog hosted by a company that makes anti-spam software. I know more than I ever wanted to on the subject!
This is a great forum!
I agree
The forum is very anti-noob. I hate entering capta images that I can hardly read, can only post every 5 minutes, this really sucks. I hope when I hit 10 posts this crap goes away
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
i kind of like the idea of captcha on the first few post i may use it on my site. i have a xbox modding site and it generates a bit of spam from time to time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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Yep, and at the same time most new users don't understand the concept of searching the forums so their first 10 posts which are asking rather than helping would probably have already been asked previously. i.e. forum gets cluttered up, which is pretty much a form of spam.
Chaotic Peace said:
I like the spam features that this site has in place, I think more forum sites need to put something like this in place. It's not that hard to get 10 posts if you're helping people out.
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Yeah exactly! And making ten posts isn't that time consuming either at the same time.
webjunky said:
most new users on this forum are looking for help , so i guess most users first 10 post will be for asking help and not giving .
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This is true as well. But if they need help they should be posting in the Q&A sections of their device not the development section.
I think the rules are there for a reason and the MODs and Admin have thought a lot on this issue and its only for first 10 posts.
It's not too bad, it's worth it.
---------- Post added at 10:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 PM ----------
I think if people were able to sign in with their google accounts though there wouldn't be need for all this...
conantroutman said:
This led to lots and lots of questions, many of which were placed in the development forums, which isn't the right place for non development related questions. Therefore a system was put in place which prevents new users from posting in the development sections with the intention of giving them the opportunity to get to know how XDA works before jumping straight in and spamming up the hallowed halls of the development
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And now they post Questions in the general forums =.=
Sent from my E15i using Tapatalk
We're always trying to make things better on the forums. This means we have to try stuff to see if it works. It's basically trial & error for the most part.
The spamming has decreased alot the past couple of months with the new captchas and 10 post rule. Still, we need to find a way to make it less difficult to join our forums and more difficult to post spam. Ideas are always welcome of course.
Annoying for non noobs
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
Slotty_AU said:
I still haven't made my 10 posts because all the stuff I want to respond to is in the developer forums so now I have to search the boards for things to reply to to actually find something to respond even though I've been a member for over a year and a user of this website for a few years!
Whilst I understand the reasoning security vs usability can sometimes be a massive P.I.T.A
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Is it so much to ask that you read for a bit first, pick up some knowledge and experience, help a few people in the 90+% of the site which is completely open to you such as your devices General or Q&A forums or any of the General discussion forums, to participate with quality posts instead of BS posts, in return for being able to post into any of the ROM threads from any dev on this site?
I've had the immense privilege of watching this site grow since just a couple months after it introduced a few new phone models to the original O2 XDA. I actually get my soap opera fix and tech fix all in one! I'm hooked.
It's not just spam. I was a horrendous new user, posting in the wrong forum, responding to emotional posts enough to encourage them, I even chewed out a guy for blasting a noob. The problem is organic, and though spam has become part of that (probably the hugest part, now) it's that organic nature of this forum that makes it so great. Really tough problem to grow something cleanly without squelching it.
I was wondering if XDA could track a user's searches, or forums "read" for more than a minute, and after 30 or so, then stop the captchas. It seems like over the years it's folks who don't search & read (spammers or otherwise) that are the detraction. Maybe something like being in "reader" status as a step to becoming a new user & able to post at all.
1. I could have used it.
2. I'm putting this here, in the weird forum for this topic it's in, to see what people think. Wanting to have input as a developer is definitely a magnification of the problem. I'm glad it's here.
(ThinkPad Tablet:Tapatalk 2)
Yes, i know that everyone of you (examples below) have very important question, that deserves separate thread, but, for God sake, don't spam the forum!!! (yes, my thread is meant to be provocative...). There is Q And A for Ace II thread for most of that questions...
Examples:
"[Q] How to root Ace gt-i8160 with BTU MC8?" (yes, it freakin' special technique to root phone working on that firmware)
"[Q] It is possible Update to JB?" (oh yeah, nobody answers that question so far, it required new thread)
"[Q] PIT?" (yes, that question probably would be ignored in q & a thread... the same way its ignored in separate thread)
"[Q] Change camera settings?" (veeeery important, no comment)
and so on...
Am I the only one here tired of all that spam?
judas1977 said:
Yes, i know that everyone of you (examples below) have very important question, that deserves separate thread, but, for God sake, don't spam the forum!!! (yes, my thread is meant to be provocative...). There is Q And A for Ace II thread for most of that questions...
Examples:
"[Q] How to root Ace gt-i8160 with BTU MC8?" (yes, it freakin' special technique to root phone working on that firmware)
"[Q] It is possible Update to JB?" (oh yeah, nobody answers that question so far, it required new thread)
"[Q] PIT?" (yes, that question probably would be ignored in q & a thread... the same way its ignored in separate thread)
"[Q] Change camera settings?" (veeeery important, no comment)
and so on...
Am I the only one here tired of all that spam?
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+1 :good:
I totally feel you man. People are behaving here like it's some technical support not respecting the rules they agreed to accept while registering here. Constant mess, chatting in threads, useless posts about personal feelings, asking questions which require spending 10 seconds with Google or forum search function. But the saddest thing here is that it seems like people who want to keep forums clean are actually minority here. Or at least they are instantly quenched by those who have to quote entire-page-long post to say only "thanks" and are raged about being offended and abused.
Sigint89 said:
I totally feel you man. People are behaving here like it's some technical support not respecting the rules they agreed to accept while registering here. Constant mess, chatting in threads, useless posts about personal feelings, asking questions which require spending 10 seconds with Google or forum search function. But the saddest thing here is that it seems like people who want to keep forums clean are actually minority here. Or at least they are instantly quenched by those who have to quote entire-page-long post to say only "thanks" and are raged about being offended and abused.
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Exactly. Its like they're on Facebook or this forums is like a social networking site to them.
Ask the forum moderators to make this thread a sticky. So that everyone can see it.
How about if we just ignore (and report) any new useless thread and be a little more active in the Q&A Thread?
Sent from my GT-I8160 using xda app-developers app
uchihakurtz said:
How about if we just ignore (and report) any new useless thread
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That's a good solution. Were not annoyed but the mods are. What do think? LOL.
Leave them alone and just try and point them to the right direction. If they do it again, report that user. I'm active on Q and A but some are just "you know" I don't really want to talk to people who you'd still have to walk through every little detail. I'm not good with explaining myself so I tend to ignore posts that ask me to do just that.
Sent from my GT-I8160 using xda app-developers app
very right. i don't know why any people always post a new post to ask? some question is spam! made our forum is do not beautiful, it's make messy and not subtle. I know if always report any spam question make they be bothered. i don't think out solution for now
YEAH! thats is why i created the All about ace2 for GB and JB to lessen this problem anyway its way to many to report each same question or post
I'll try to enlighten all of you... BECAUSE THE Q&A THREAD DOESN'T WORK!!!
Until I see a forum moderator saying that all the question should be posted there I will never do it again (only done it once) and I'll explain why:
1. To make any Q&A thread work we would expect someone to maintain and index on it, but this isn't the case here.
2. Posts are ignored because they get lost in all the discussions going on there.
3. Answers are lost because most of the time no one knows if the answer is to your question or to the question 2 posts below yours.
4. Search is impossible if you don't know the exact words used.
Maybe the reasons above are part of the motive other devices have a specific areas for questions, like "Galaxy Ace S5830 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting" that have 3000 posts in it... Trying to make it all fit on 1 thread is completely useless and extremely confusing. No one can expect a user to go thru 100 pages trying to find an answer to his question.
Now picking up on the 1st question, let me make another one...
Why do some users in this forum spend more time "demanding" people to post where they think is right other then helping people?
If we were a bit more friendly maybe more people would stay and help out, instead we just drive people out with this kind of aggressive and unjustified comments.
mcjpt said:
I'll try to enlighten all of you... BECAUSE THE Q&A THREAD DOESN'T WORK!!!
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You have right, partially.
But the questions are left without answers for several reasons:
- the answer was posted before
- nobody know the answer
- the answer is easy to achieve just by checking by oneself.
mcjpt said:
Why do some users in this forum spend more time "demanding" people to post where they think is right other then helping people?
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Did you see a policeman helping a thief to break the law only for one reason: to be nice, kind and helpful?? And this is what you propose.
Answering your question: Because i want to keep our subforum CLEAN. How many of that "new question threads" was already answered (sometimes in SEPARATE, dedicated thread)? And what you propose is to help other breaking the rules.
mcjpt said:
If we were a bit more friendly maybe more people would stay and help out, instead we just drive people out with this kind of aggressive and unjustified comments.
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There are forums where people are banned for breaking rules, trust me, and "illegall threads" land where it belongs: in trashcan.
Chill out! Just go here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2321168 why?
simple... almost any developments are here pack in one for easy access.. to make it less confusing..
mcjpt said:
I'll try to enlighten all of you... BECAUSE THE Q&A THREAD DOESN'T WORK!!!
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Really? I think it doesn't work because people like you never learn. Questions are answered there - that's the purpose. And that purpose is served.
Questions are lost because some can't answer them, or its too easy if you learned to read and simply because the question itself is dumb (the answer is obvious yet they choose to post it)
mcjpt said:
Until I see a forum moderator saying that all the question should be posted there I will never do it again
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actually, one of our forum mods, The Captain - is reminding new users to post on the Q and A thread then he locks the thread.
mcjpt said:
4. Search is impossible if you don't know the exact words used.
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Uhhm. I use search and never had any problems so far. I'm guessing you really don't know how to use a search engine productively.
mcjpt said:
Maybe the reasons above are part of the motive other devices have a specific areas for questions, like "Galaxy Ace S5830 Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting" that have 3000 posts in it... Trying to make it all fit on 1 thread is completely useless and extremely confusing. No one can expect a user to go thru 100 pages trying to find an answer to his question.
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Since we don't have a section like that, I think its better to use a single thread. thus searching would be faster.
mcjpt said:
Why do some users in this forum spend more time "demanding" people to post where they think is right other then helping people?
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In all honesty, I usually tell the user the answer and direct them to the q and a thread for any other questions irrelevant to the question on the thread.
Galaxy Ace II [SakuraDroid] via Tapatalk 4 Beta