Develop Bugs

Which phone would you get?(Tilt 2/Pure/Backflip)

I am stuck between three phones that I want until I truly upgrade in August. I don't know what I want between the Tilt 2, the Pure or Motorola Backflip. I have done tons of research for all of these phones and I don't know which one I really want. What I should get?(Please don't be bias!)

Skip-Breezy said:
I am stuck between three phones that I want until I truly upgrade in August. I don't know what I want between the Tilt 2, the Pure or Motorola Backflip. I have done tons of research for all of these phones and I don't know which one I really want. What I should get?(Please don't be bias!)
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Oh that's an easy question. You just get the one that has the keyboard that feels the best when you play with it (which you have done, right?). Or, get the one that has the OS that feels the best to you. Or, find one that's both. Or.. ok, maybe it's not such an easy question (hint, hint)

My very biased opinion is that if you want a WinMo phone, you should get the Tilt 2.
If you want an Android keyboard phone...I guess the backflip but I have no knowledge of that phone good or bad.
Actually I take it back, you should get the Tilt 2 regardless (it can even run Android, just for fun)

Are you saying what phone should you get in August?
If so, there will be tons of new phones then, so do not decide now.

If you're going to upgrade all the way in August, you shouldn't really be deciding what phone you want now. By then, AT&T should have more Android phones, their own version of the Palm Pre, and hopefully a new lineup for their Windows Mobile devices, like the HTC Tera (Touch Pro3).
You might even want to wait until October, since that's typically when AT&T gets their new sliding keyboard Windows Mobile device, like the Rhodium, and the Raphael before that, and the Kaiser before that, and the Wizard before that, and so on. By the time you upgrade, it's likely that the whole playing field will have changed significantly, so don't lock yourself into a device just yet when there's still plenty that can change between now and then.

Just get the TP2... a friend of mine went from the iphone to the backflip and can't stand it.. The screens small. That said.. Pure is a good phone BUT no keyboard...
Also.. at the rate the android development is going you'll be able to run android in full by the time you're ready to upgrade *lets hope at least*
Right now theres some things missing but I'm able to run adroid 2.1 pretty smooth on my tilt2.
You can read about it here ---> Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Android Development
All that is missing is:
•BT
•Sound (in call mic and earpiece work, no ringtones or music)
•GPS
•Camera
•Opengles: using software rendering for the time being.
•Battery Meter
Which yes those seem fairly important but keep in mind you STILL have the full fledged Winmo able to run as well... so why get the backflip when you can have android running on this phone?
Just my food for thought!

If you're in the mood for a phone that runs JUST android then you may want to look at this Dell Aero Phone (AT&T)
Built-in 5.0-megapixel camera lets users share snapshots and upload them to Facebook, Flickr, Picassa, YouTube and TwitPic
Large 3.5-inch nHD display, perfect for watching media
Stay connected with social networking apps such as Facebook with an integrated phonebook and events that sync to the calendar
PC-like Web browsing experience with Flash Lite support for streaming audio and video content
Integrated Wi-Fi technology to connect to 20,000 AT&T hotspots
Navigate using the onboard GPS system while talking handsfree

Join the complaint to htc to have access to install apps to sd

i hope people will do this i think it will get a result.....
join the protest for htc to make us a way to install apps to SD there just not enough room i said to them its no good its what is really killin this device for me now its not fair its locked out what kind of crazy idea to miss this feature out from day one
1. complaint made in writing and voiced

It's nothing to do with HTC per se, it's inherent with the Android OS - something which Google have already acknowledged and is rumoured to be fixed in 2.2 (Froyo) which will be announced in about 10 days at the Google IO conference.

No need to do that , it all depends on Google. This is what I've got from HTC.
Hi, Thanks for your email. We're all looking forward to that... it seems that they have now said that it is 'coming soon' and they have closed the forum regarding this on their site, so at present, it is assumed that it is coming in 2.2. However, until they announce it, it is still speculation. best regards, Pete W HTC
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"Hi, Thanks for your email. We're all looking forward to that... it seems that they have now said that it is 'coming soon' and they have closed the forum regarding this on their site, so at present, it is assumed that it is coming in 2.2. However, until they announce it, it is still speculation. best regards, Pete W HTC "
Ok, nice... coming soon.... but how much time then untill HTC releases it with sense etc?

BUT, do we have any information that leads us to believe HTC will release Froyo for the Desire - I've not seen nor heard anything other than their commitment to support Flash 10.1 for the Desire in a future update?? As Flash 10.1 is natively supported in Froyo an OS update would kill two birds with one stone and supposedly remedy the Android fragmentation issue on all Desires. However a simple OTA update to Eclair could readily unlock Flash 10.1 without the need for a full OS update to replace Eclair with Froyo.

hija31 said:
No need to do that , it all depends on Google. This is what I've got from HTC.
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Not only on google, but on HTC too. HTC will get Froyo next month, and then its up on them if they will give upgrade to Desire.

So make a request to put Froyo ASAP, not for HTC to include a core feature to Google Android operating system. This thread is ridiculous

Great.... just found this and didnt realize there was a problem like this with the Desire... that really sux! especially as my Desire turns up at 10am this morning and my trusty HD which I can install 32Gb of apps if I so wanted has just sold on ebay!
Maybe I need to stop buying HTC devices.

The desire is selling like hotcakes - I suspect on a whole different scale to any HTC device before. That makes me optimistic that froyo will be available for the desire at some point. Until then, I'm sure a cooked nexus one Rom will be able to tide us over.

Geeba said:
Great.... just found this and didnt realize there was a problem like this with the Desire... that really sux! especially as my Desire turns up at 10am this morning and my trusty HD which I can install 32Gb of apps if I so wanted has just sold on ebay!
Maybe I need to stop buying HTC devices.
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You do not seem to understand that it is not HTCs fault. This is an Android operating system limitation. So it is a "problem" with every single phone with the Desire.
I wrote "problem" because.. how much apps do you actually install?? I have about 50 apps installed and far from running out of my memory.
Also, of course you can stop whining and install a cutom ROM with A2SD (Apps To SD card).
Just to make it clear: Apps CAN store its data on SD card (like navigation apps storing maps etc) so most of the apps that require storage use SD card anyway. It's quicker that way.

I have to disagree, it's not an inherent problem with Android, but the fault of the handset maker. Android installs apps to the system memory - this is a fact. The manufacturer should provide adequate ROM memory for this.

That's a valid point. If HTC had simply put more memory in the device itself, accessible for apps and such, this would be a negligible issue.

personally, it will sure be handy but for me, I have ll the apps that i needed and my available space is still 113MB on my HTC Desire.

Ok, nice... coming soon.... but how much time then untill HTC releases it with sense etc?
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This is what I've got :
Until we get it, we simply don't know. It depends what changes in 2.2 and how that affects our Sense software and how much work is needed to get it working properly again. As a desire owner myself, i'm hoping it won't take as long as the Hero has (which i also own), and hoping that the 'defragmentation' that Google is supposedly doing will speed the process up in future. Best regards, Pete W HTC
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antz88c said:
personally, it will sure be handy but for me, I have ll the apps that i needed and my available space is still 113MB on my HTC Desire.
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Click to collapse
Wish I could say the same. I have 47 apps installed (including Navigon satnav, and 6 or 7 games) and I'm pretty much out of space. I'm reduced to making decisions on whether or not I can be bothered to try out a new game because it means uninstalling one that I already own... I also had to get rid of Google Earth, simply because I hardly used it and it took up so much space - however I would've loved to have kept it because it's nice to show off to people.

Ommadawn said:
That's a valid point. If HTC had simply put more memory in the device itself, accessible for apps and such, this would be a negligible issue.
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In fact, despite this not being Google's fault (HTC's penny-pinching) they are still going to address the issue in Froyo, for the good of the users. I imagine they are doing this to avoid any further harm to the Android name. Whatever the reason, good on 'em.
I for one will be happy when Froyo is released, and if HTC don't get their arses in gear quick-smart with a Sense update then I will be rooting (if I haven't rooted by then already). I'm only waiting now because it seems VERY complicated compared to rooting the Dream which I had before, and also I don't really have the time to devote to it right now, or to having a potentially unstable phone/ROM. But I'm not that enamoured with HTC or Sense, so when I do eventually get hacked off, I will root.

I deffo need space as I have to leave off or keep swapping apps around and I only use ones I need to or have actual value.

Still not reached the memory limit but getting close. So i keep my fingers crossed for the update. I think both Google and HTC are doing their best all we need is a little patience.
Btw although navigation software puts the maps on the sd their memory footprint is very different. For example, both Navigon and Copilot will use over 15 mb whereas Sygic only uses 8 mb.

mornixuur said:
Still not reached the memory limit but getting close. So i keep my fingers crossed for the update. I think both Google and HTC are doing their best all we need is a little patience.
Btw although navigation software puts the maps on the sd their memory footprint is very different. For example, both Navigon and Copilot will use over 15 mb whereas Sygic only uses 8 mb.
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That's good to know mornixuur, and may help some people decide on a particular satnav, although I'm very happy with Navigon and won't be changing to save 7mb
I think you have to agree that it's pretty sad we're even having this conversation - why on earth should our decisions be based on a few megs when I have an 8GB class 6 microSD card in my phone which only cost me £11? I know that ROM memory is considerably faster and probably more expensive than SD cards, but really - how much would it've cost HTC (remembering they get huge volume discounts) to stick a 4 gig ROM chip in the phone? £5? £10? That way this issue would affect hardly anyone.
And it's not like people haven't complained about it before - every HTC Android phone has had the same problem, since the original Dream. You'd think they would learn! No, it's as I read on another thread somewhere - although HTC are more than capable of designing decent handsets, somewhere along the line the bean-counters get involved and decide to cut corners with cheap, inadequate components, such as not enough RAM (which was a problem with the Dream from the outset), crappy touchscreens (all HTC phones, except the latest Incredible), last generation processors (up until the HD2/N1/Desire/Incredible), cheap speakers, etc etc.
They buy huge quantities of the cheapest parts they can find and then use them until it's no longer viable and the competition has a significant technological lead for months (iPhone 3GS, Motorola Droid). I think it's planned obsolescence, as they release a new "must have" phone every 2 months, which in reality is only a very slight upgrade from the last. By the time a year has passed, you are looking at your HTC phone and comparing it to the 4 or 5 which have superceeded it, and you want a new one. Very clever, I must say.
The only time where they have cocked this up is in failing to release a high-end QWERTY keyboard Android phone in the last couple of years. I held off from upgrading my Dream for ages because of the lack of a decent one on the market (Droid/Milestone doesn't count because the keyboard was ****e).
Eventually I had to get something new because my nearly 2yr old Dream just couldn't play with the big boys any more, despite all the modding/hacks that the geniuses at XDA have provided (and I'm very grateful for).
Incidentally, I'm still waiting for a decent QWERTY to come out, whether that be the Droid 2/Nexus Enterprise Edition (with alleged better keyboard), or something from HTC or another manufacturer.
Anyway, rant over! I still love my Desire, it's the best thing I can get in this country at the moment!

Thinking about getting the Desire.

Hey there Desire users!
I just want to ask you all,
1) what do you think of the phone?
2) Would you recommend it?
3) What are the biggest problems you've had? Any fixes?
4) Is there lag at anytime that you think there shouldn't be?
5) What's the web experience like?
6) And probably most important for me, what's the SMS experience like? (can i please have a screenshot of that? )
Sorry for so many questions but I wanna know if the phone will be worth getting.
Thanks,
Luke.

Buddy!
Alright, I'll share my desire experience here.
To be honest man, that very night before I actually made up my mind to sign up for the desire, I searched up the entire net about opinions.
But reading the review and getting the phone itself, that's really two different aspects of the phone you'll get.
The sms functions are flexible this time round due to the wide screen the desire has, unlike my old HTC touch diamond 2, I had such a hard time using it for smses!
And for the rest of the bugs I wouldn't say there's none. But since the days I've started using, the bugs are more or less either not obvious, or not annoying. Cause as a previous iPhone user, bugs there are much more obvious and annoying.
Lastly I guess i'll give the desire a 8/10 as a phone due to the not 2.2 android software that we have, which I hope will be updated soon, and also due to the fact that applications cannot be stored on.SD cards.
However if you wish to root your desire then its a whole different story..
The HTC sense is really awesome. That's the trump.card of the phone, as it really upholds the name of a smartphone.
Wish you all the best,
Pardon me for the vocabulary here.
Sent from my HTC Desire

I love mine, had it 4 days
bought it SIM free never been near a carriers branding team.
£399.95 from a CarPhoneWarehouse shop, zero issues, much better than my iPhone 3gs.

1. It's awesome. Especially if you're coming from Windows Mobile. Check out my review. Would also suggest you look at other reviews of the device. There's a sticky thread in the Desire General section for reviews. You may also want to see this!
2. Hell yes!
3. Check out my stickied thread in the Desire General forum. Keep in mind that none of those items really get in the way. Many of them are simply a result of our own high expectations. Everything that the device is advertised for works very well.
4. I can see why you're asking this because in WinMo, the OS often lags for no apparent reason at random times. This doesn't happen on the Desire. It only lags sometimes when you shut down. It's odd. But if you don't shutdown, it's fine. And if you just want to softreset, just use the hardware key combination (power+vol down+trackpad).
5. Web experience is arguably the best across all smartphone platforms. Versus WinMo, there's no comparison in terms of speed and stability. Versus iOS, it's just as fast plus you get full screen browsing along with text reflow. Tip: Turn off Javascript and Flash to really speed things up.
6. SMS looks and behaves very similar to the HTC Messaging application included with Sense 2.5 for WinMo. But as you might know, it lags in WinMo to the point where it's almost unusable. No lag in Android on Desire. Soft keyboard is among the best.
If you want to see the device in action, Youtube is your friend...

Oh wow, I really didn't expect so many replies so quickly.
Well thank you all for your input you've pretty much confirmed what i thought, this phone is awesome. I'll be getting it for my birthday so I shall now await that day with great eagerness!!
From the videos of the phone I have seen it looks like a truely awesome phone.
hyocca said:
However if you wish to root your desire then its a whole different story..
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Yes I am willing to root the phone straight off, maybe a day or two after I get it... I've already read up on it and it doesn't seem to be something straightforward but not impossible for me to do.
Thanks again for input everyone. I shall definitely be getting this phone (if money agrees as it'll be unlocked then my current sim used).
One more question, I heard about the 2.2 release having 10.1 flash support... What sort of flash support does the current 2.1 have?
Luke.

It have only a flash lite version that is able to play videos not very smoothly.
Sent from my HTC Desire

Got my HTC Surround today

I have been playing with it all day, my HTC Surround is quite a toy. While this is version 1.0 of WP7, its pretty good. There are maybe 125 free apps in the market place and most paid apps are $1-$3 or more. I see a lot of potential. The interface is responsive. It's not perfect but I expect MS will address all of its shortcomings. I lost all of my favorite installed apps I had on my Dash 3G - all the TV and radio apps, my MIRC app, most of the things I really care about, so I am holding onto my Dash for now. But I am SURE most of these apps will be ported over sooner than later. If I get desparate, I'll pay AT&T the $10 they want for their streaming app. Video quality is OK using the Zune software. I used it convert my smaller .mp4's using the Zune converter. I may get sharper pictures if I convert from the original .avi's. There are a few free radio apps that work well. So far I don't see any 3rd party video news apps, maybe Netflix is good, so haven't figured out how to get Sky video news, but again i am sure it will be available soon. There's a glitch in windows live causing some people to get error messages, but MS says they will have that fixed shortly. IExp works great, as does the weather maps and search. My contacts downloaded fine from my sim card and synced fine to my computer. All in all this was a good move....can't wait for the rest to come!

Congrats!! And a few questions please
Have you ever played with an HTC Aria and its Sense touch technology? Is the HTC touch interface the same or as stunning on your new phone? I love my Captivate (which askpcguy just helped me unbrick ), but have really always loved Windows' PC OS and the HTC Sense on my Aria just really seemed snappier to me than Samsung's TouchWiz. My fiancee will get my Captivate, but I'm torn between one of the new AT&T 7 phones or a decent touchscreen/real keyboard Android if and when AT&T gets one. I miss my real BB keyboard, but the Torch is too underpowered and the screen is to small for my aging eyes.
Also, I read a few reviews on your excellent phone at PCmag, CNET and Endgadget earlier today, and Endgadget mentioned the fact that the speakers are muffled when closed and you have to really have them open to hear well. That seems logical, but is it as noticeable as they lead one to believe please? Can you hear a call come in well? Endgadget indicates those are the only speakers on the phone, and if muffled, would I still hear my ringtones? For a totally useless question, can you set a whole song as a ringtone, or are you limited to a certain file size like most phones nowadays (my old Krzr, which I used today while Captivate was out of service, can handle a whole song, why not smartphones? One of those things that make me go hmmm?). The same review had issues with the kickstand. What have you noticed please?
I read an interview with HTC's owner and founder in Businessweek this past week, and he is truly a trendsetter. HTC came out of nowhere and are making the best touchscreens I've seen to date (just eclipsed by Samsung and Apple for now in crispness - but that won't be the case for long).

HTC Sense Hub
this is one of the reasons I went with the Surround instead of the Samsung (ok the screen is a bit smaller but I like the build and HTC seems to have better continuing device support)
Well back to the HTC hub, it is very sense like but not as we are used to on WM/Android devices, imho there is a bit too much animation but it is very cool and the device seems to handle the graphice very well. the hub mainly consists of the basic clock/weather combo with links to additional HTC free apps that are many of the unique value added apps we all know and love, Flashlight, calc, a very cool picture enhancer and some others that must be installed, the few att bloat ware present can be easily removed (a first i think) it's not the same as we are used to but they did a nice job of adding the HTC feel as a component to the metro interface. these are just my observations/thoughts and your milage may vary.
Cheers
BR

1toadfacedfrump said:
Have you ever played with an HTC Aria and its Sense touch technology? Is the HTC touch interface the same or as stunning on your new phone? I love my Captivate (which askpcguy just helped me unbrick ), but have really always loved Windows' PC OS and the HTC Sense on my Aria just really seemed snappier to me than Samsung's TouchWiz. My fiancee will get my Captivate, but I'm torn between one of the new AT&T 7 phones or a decent touchscreen/real keyboard Android if and when AT&T gets one. I miss my real BB keyboard, but the Torch is too underpowered and the screen is to small for my aging eyes.
Also, I read a few reviews on your excellent phone at PCmag, CNET and Endgadget earlier today, and Endgadget mentioned the fact that the speakers are muffled when closed and you have to really have them open to hear well. That seems logical, but is it as noticeable as they lead one to believe please? Can you hear a call come in well? Endgadget indicates those are the only speakers on the phone, and if muffled, would I still hear my ringtones? For a totally useless question, can you set a whole song as a ringtone, or are you limited to a certain file size like most phones nowadays (my old Krzr, which I used today while Captivate was out of service, can handle a whole song, why not smartphones? One of those things that make me go hmmm?). The same review had issues with the kickstand. What have you noticed please?
I read an interview with HTC's owner and founder in Businessweek this past week, and he is truly a trendsetter. HTC came out of nowhere and are making the best touchscreens I've seen to date (just eclipsed by Samsung and Apple for now in crispness - but that won't be the case for long).
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I hate to break it to you, but HTC cuts a lot of corners. Especially lately. It may be due to demand or whatever, but it's one of the primary reasons I'm looking to buy from another manufacturer this time around. I believe they used to make KIRFs, by the way. Though, I have no source on that.

I really don't like my Surround, but HTC never made KIRFS. HTC made just about everyone else's PDA and WinMo phones back in the day though. Including the XDA (hence the name of this forum, which is based on HTC phones). It wasn't until around 2006/2007 that they started trying to be a brand name in their own right though.

Croak said:
I really don't like my Surround, but HTC never made KIRFS. HTC made just about everyone else's PDA and WinMo phones back in the day though. Including the XDA (hence the name of this forum, which is based on HTC phones). It wasn't until around 2006/2007 that they started trying to be a brand name in their own right though.
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Are you going to give the Focus a try? I played with one at the store today and have to admit, it was pretty nice. Didn't look or feel cheap to me.

No, I own a Galaxy S I9000M that's in for repairs, with that I get the same 4" SAMOLED as the Focus, AND a real OS. Once it comes back, this Windows Phone 7 detour is over. After a day of using it, I'm certain Windows Phone 7 is not for me.
On the other hand, this might just be the perfect OS for my father, who still can't set the clock on his microwave.

ericc191 said:
I hate to break it to you, but HTC cuts a lot of corners. Especially lately. It may be due to demand or whatever, but it's one of the primary reasons I'm looking to buy from another manufacturer this time around. I believe they used to make KIRFs, by the way. Though, I have no source on that.
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Agreed, agreed, agreed! I don't think I'm ever going to buy another HTC device, ever, which is why I never looked very hard at Android. I've been burned by their corner cutting several times too many. I was also burned by that WinMo phone from LG that was supposed to sell with the snap on projector and had "numerous UI enhancements" from LG which actually made the already lousy WinMo 6.5 UI even WORSE. It was a bad phone and I don't think AT&T tried selling it for very long. So I went with the Samsung Focus and so far I'm impressed. The hardware is nice, it works well and the system, while spartan, works well and hasn't slowed or crashed on me. As was also mentioned, I have a TON of stuff I use on a regular basis on the iPhone so I haven't sold it, nor am I 100% committed to the Focus yet....I have 30 days to return it and I may do that. But so far I have no reason to do so PLUS Slingplayer, my favorite app of all, is already available for WP. I waited almost a full year for Slingplayer for the iPhone and the day after I buy a WP phone, there it is. Now that's impressive!

Lots of interesting ideas and advice, and I love gaining the pros and cons of devices, as well as the history (thanks Croak ). You guys certainly know your stuff, but before you give up on HTC, get last week's Bloomberg Businessweek and read the interview with the top man, because if he knew of the problems you speak of it appears he would be highly upset. Some of what Croak indicated are in that same article. He seems to be a perfectionist like Mr. Jobs; but being human, we will never attain such a lofty goal, but sure have fun trying.
FWIW, the Sense UI blows me away, which is why I miss the underpowered Aria.

Review/Comparison: Desire Z vs. Touch Pro 2

I’ve defected from Windows Mobile and the Rhodium over to Android and the HTC Desire Z (code name Vision). About a million years ago (late December, actually) Jackos asked that I write a review/comparison of the device, for which I am happy to oblige. Unfortunately, a newborn baby, holiday travel, and work travel have conspired to delay me from writing such a review. But I’m finally taking the time to fulfill the promise. Jackos thought such a review would be useful for those that are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium, so hopefully that is still relevant. Based on a recent thread, I would think so! http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=949121
The move to a different OS was certainly something that I’ve been debating for some time. But as we all know (and possibly unwilling to admit), Windows Mobile is outdated and nearing the end of its useful life. Windows Phone 7 so far is a big disappointment to me. The OS seems very limited in many of the same ways the iPhone is, with reviews at various websites and comments by users verifying this notion. One article I read about WP7 was that the OS is not a good choice for power users. Android was looking more and more attractive to me. To me, it carries on the spirit of Windows Mobile in terms of customization. Things are not accessed quite the same way as Windows Mobile (there is no registry), but there is still tons of customizations, mods, and hacks available.
Being the owner of the Tilt (Kaiser) and Tilt2 (Touch Pro 2, Rhodium), I’ve become a big HTC fan, and wanted something similar, with a hardware keyboard. The Desire Z has a very similar form factor to the Rhodium, with a hardware keyboard, nearly the same screen size, and similar dimensions. I found out that Bell Canada released the HTC Desire Z in November, with 3G bands compatible with ATT's network. I decided to take the plunge. Not an easy pill to swallow, as an unlocked, unsubsidized device like this goes for a premium price of around $600 (and obviously not for everyone). But what the heck, its a been a good year, and I decided to get myself a Christmas gift. Of course, if you are in Canada, Europe, or on T-Mobile, you have access to specific versions for those locations and carriers at a much better price.
Let me tell you guys, this device is amazing. The build quality is excellent, the phone feels very high end, with most of the body being a gorgeous brushed aluminum, accented with some slightly grippy/rubbery “soft touch” plastic (also nice looking, and does not cheapen the appearance). The feel of the phone is much nicer, and seems more sturdy then the Rhodium.
The camera is 5MP with a LED flash, and yields somewhat better photos than the Rhodium. The screen is gorgeous. While the iPhone “Retina” and Samsung AMOLED displays get all the hype, the super LCD screen on the Desire Z is still very nice. Direct comparisons I have read rate it only slightly below the quality of the iPhone or Galaxy S displays. Touch response is excellent, and registers multi-touch very well.
Much has been said about this phone’s unique “Z Hinge”. See the Engadget review, if you aren't familiar with the Z-hinge: http://mobile.engadget.com/2010/11/25/htc-desire-z-review/
Some have complained about the phone not staying firmly enough in the keyboard open or closed position, or have expressed concerns of the durability of the hinge. Personally, I like the hinge and how it is designed to open easily with the flick of your thumb. But if you’re in doubt, you might want to play around with it in person before committing to buying the phone.
The keyboard itself is very good. But strangely, not quite as nice as the one on the Touch Pro 2. The the keys are slightly smaller (and one less row of keys), and do not have quite as much “travel” when pressing the keys. It feels like a slight step backward from the Rhodium, but still one of the best keyboards around. Having come from the ATT version of the Rhodium (which replaced the row of numbers with random symbols and punctuations), the missing 4th row of keys is not a big deal. But owners of other Rhodium variants will no doubt miss the number-dedicated row of keys.
Another piece of hardware that is strangely not as good as the Rhodium is the speaker. The speaker on the Desire Z is not quite a loud as on the Rhodium, but the difference is fairly minor, and most people will probably overlook this. The 3.5mm headphone jack is a welcome addition, and good riddance to adapters and special headphones that were needed on the Rhodium (at least the GSM version).
At the time of the phone’s release, this was one of the fastest Android phones available (although there is a new generation of dual core Snapdragons coming soon). Don’t be fooled by the fact that the CPU is clocked at 800 MHz. This is a newer generation of Snapdragon than the 1 GHz ones found on phones such as Nexus One and the EVO, with a different fab process and faster GPU also. The Desire Z benchmarks faster than those phones, as well as the Galaxy S, Droid X, and others. The CPU can also be easily overclocked to 1 GHz without over-volting and affecting battery lift; and much higher than that with over-volting.
Battery life seems somewhat shorter on the Desire Z compared to the Rhodium. I was often able to get 2-3 days on a change on my old Tilt2. On the Desire Z, I usually have to charge every night. I can maybe get through a day and a half; but at least a day with all but the heaviest usage. And to be honest, I’m using the phone much more than I did my old Rhodium, so that is a factor as well.
I've played around with Project Android on my trusty old Tilt2, so Android is not completely new to me. It took me a bit getting accustomed to where some things are located, but that is true with switching to any new phone OS. The OS is overall pretty user friendly. It just takes a little while to dedicate to memory where some settings and other things are located. And there is certainly a learning curve once you are ready for customizing/modifying. There is lots of new terminology, process, and tools to learn if you want to “root” (gain super user rights to access system files) and flash a custom ROM, or do other system modifications.
Knocks on Android for not being as "smooth" as the iPhone seem largely unfounded to me. The Desire Z is super smooth, and of course has tons of customization and functionality that the iPhone will never have. And if you coming from Windows Mobile, you are going to be blown away by the smoothness and stability of the OS. The only real performance weakness I’ve seen so far is switching from portrait to landscape on the homescreen, particularly when you have lots of widgets loaded.
Using the phone is a pleasure. Browser rendering is fast, with the stock browser working very well, and Flash enabled. I’ve been previously in denial that capacity touchscreens are a good thing, but multi-touch pinch-to-zoom really does make browsing a joy. Text selection (such as for cut/paste) is aided by a zoom feature that activates with a long touch on text, and also by the optical trackpad (which allows moving the cursor by single characters).
I already keep my contacts, email, and calendar on Google. So the Google integration is awesome for me. I just entered my Google login and password, and it synched all that stuff in a couple minutes. If you are not a Google user, things might be slightly annoying, as the OS will try to steer you toward creating a Google login. Google Navigation is built-in, and will give you point-to -point directions, with audio cues, and first person perspective. It works better than the tools on Windows Mobile such as Google Maps and Bing. It works so well, in fact, that I've often been using Google Nav instead of my Garmin Nuvi GPS unit in the car.
I knew moving to Android would open up a lot of software options, and in this I was not disappointed. There are tons of useful applications and games on the Android Market, and the list is constantly growing. Software developers have embraced Android, which is a refreshing change coming from Windows Mobile. Yes, there is a ton of fluff and junk in the Android Market. But most of the major applications you can think of have a quality Android version.
I’m not a developer. So I can’t comments on the development potential of this device and Android versus Windows Mobile. But so far there is pretty good developer support on the Desire Z. And many have claimed that developers will support this phone for a long time, as they seem to favor devices with a hardware keyboard. There are several stable custom Froyo (Android 2.2) ROMs available, including Sense and non-Sense options, as well as CyanogenMod (a popular and highly customized Android ROM). Gingerbread (Android 2.3, the latest version, just released) ROMs are in the works, with alpha/beta versions already available for testing. Personally, the stock ROM has been so stable and usable for me, I haven’t really been that tempted to flash a custom ROM yet, versus a Windows Phone, where a custom ROM is virtually a necessity.
I’ve babbled on for much too long. In short, if you are looking to upgrade from the Rhodium to something with a similar form factor, the Desire Z is highly recommended. Here’s a quick summary of the Desire Z versus my old Rhodium:
Pros
OS is light years ahead of Windows Mobile (smooth, stable, fast)
Awesome build quality, with a sturdy feel
Better display
3.5 mm headphone jack
Great selection of quality applications
Slightly better camera (5MP) with LED flash
Cons
Keyboard not quite as good
Speaker not quite as good (minor)
Shorter battery life
Z Hinge durability may be an issue
P.S.: If you like the review, please click the "Thanks" button below!

I really appreciated reading this review. I'm a Tilt 2 user, that hasn't found anything new out there to make me want to give up my Rhodium and I have the same feelings regarding Windows 7, so I'm very hesitant to give it a try. Android is completely new to me, but from what I've read, it seems like the natural progression for those of us on Windows Mobile.
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Thanks again for posting this. I look forward to reading more about your experiences with this device.
Have fun!
Debbie

Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?

DebbieNY13 said:
I'm on AT&T, so I will keep a watch on this phone if AT&T decides to release their version down the road (but I won't hold my breath ). I've never used unlocked devices either so, unless they come down in price, I won't be experimenting with this model for a while.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Having finally lost iPhone exclusivity, AT&T seems to be starting to release some decent Android devices, such as the HTC Inspire (Desire HD variant). I'm skeptical they would release the Desire Z, but maybe they will release a future HTC device with a QWERTY keyboard. One can only hope.
If the keyboard is not an absolute requirement, the Inspire looks like a very nice phone. Larger display than the Desire Z, 1GHz processor (faster then the Z), and a slightly better camera. I've actually been finding myself using Swype more and more, and the keyboard less and less. So that has me rethinking the whole QWERTY keyboard thing, a little bit. Although I still use it from time to time for longer texts and emails.
BTW, if you like the review, please click the "Thank you" button!

Jackos said:
Thanks for the review. I enjoyed reading it. Well done, sir!
For a conclusion: Was it worth the money if upgrading from Rhodium?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're very welcome.
For me, spending the money was worth it. It was a lot of money to spend on a phone, but I absolutely love it. I tried to stick with WM as long as I could. But everything just works so much better on the Desire Z. I knew it would be a big improvement, but all my expectations were exceeded.
If you are in a market where your carrier offers this phone for a subsidized price, its a no-brainer.

Very nicely written
I have a TP2 now, also considering the Desire Z since it has a (rare these days) hardware keyboard.
Seeing how the DZ performs (especially when overclocked, wow!) does make me feel quite confident it's somewhat future-proof performance wise.
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
When my contract expires next month I can get a free DZ if I extend my contract.
I'll go to the T-Mobile store tomorrow and see if I can play around with one

ericino said:
Very nicely written
I do love the tilting screen of the TP2 very much, especially when I'm at the computer and using the TP2 for MSN or FB chat or something like that. Like having a miniature laptop
Have you ever missed the tilting screen of the TP2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally, I was finding myself using the tilt feature on the TP2 less and less. Lots of times, I found it easier to just slide the phone open, write a quick text, then close it quickly, without having to mess with tilting the screen up and down. But of course, this is a personal preference.
The only times I've been missing the tilt screen is while watching video. With the TP2, I could tilt the screen up, then place the phone down on a table to watch. HTC should have added a kickstand, like on the Desire HD. It would have been a very easy to add, and super useful.

Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?

ronh said:
Perfect review!
I'm also considdering the DZ, and the review almost answered all my question.
But I still have one question: What do you do if you want to navigate without being online?
So if you're abroad and don't want the rediculous roaming costs, how do you navigate?
I now use TomTom really a lot, and I don't know what to use when I switch to the DZ.
TomTom has all the maps on the memory card, is there a good replacement for Android? With regular updates?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a paid Android app called Copilot, which is supposed to be pretty good, and does what you want. But I haven't personally used it. There are others, as well.
Also, the Euro version of the Desire Z has a feature of the "new" Sense called HTC Locations, which has a 30-day free trial, than once you pay the monthly fee or buy a lifetime license, you can navigate using maps downloaded to the SD card. Unfortunately, Locations and the Car Panel were removed in the Bell Canada version of the DZ. Likewise, the T-Mobile G2 does not have it, as it is Sense-free. But the feature can be obtained by flashing the stock Euro ROM to either the Bell DZ or the G2. I haven't done this, and I have no idea how well Locations works in the US. But comments by DZ users in the UK and Europe indicate they seem to like it.

i too miss my tilt 2, especially the tilts sliding kb. thats why i come back to these boards every now and again.
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
almost anything i could do with wm i cant do with android only better. android is way more reliable and the tilt2 was a touch underpowered.
as soon as someone comes out with a 4.3inch lcd with a sliding kb that will be my next phone
off topic, don't believe the hype about the evo battery being weak, i get 24-40 hrs per charge, average is probably around 30 hrs and that's with 2 weather apps, face book, 4 emails accounts and Google searches off and on all day with gps location and blue tooth on. i also have a stock rom, although its rooted.
btw tc excellent read.
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.

Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....

F2504x4 said:
Redpoint i hate to rain on your parade, but i went and seen that you have quite a few threads some of which are here in the Pro Tilt 2 forums regarding this new phone you are in love with, why not go to the forum for that phone ?
here make it easier for you...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=594
Sorry the tilt is a great phone although it is getting dated, but that is no reason for what you are doing ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was specifically asked for a comparison between the Touch Pro 2 and the Desire Z; for TP2 owners who may be interested in upgrading. If it was a straight up review of the DZ only, and no mention of the TP2, I would agree with you. But as you can see from reading my review, I make ample comparisons and references to the TP2, so I believe its appropriate here. The DZ is also a very logical upgrade from the TP2 versus just about every other phone on the market, due to its very similar form factor and same manufacturer.
You said I "have quite a few threads" about the DZ. But this is the only thread I started. I posted a reference to this review on 2 other threads started by others. Those threads were started by users looking for an upgrade similar to the TP2, so that actually reinforces my decision that this forum is the correct location for the review/comparison.
I did debate it for a while (of where to post), and your comment is not unreasonable. But I didn't see the Desire Z the best place to post it. The huge majority of the users on the Desire Z/Vision forum already own the phone, and they don't need to see a review for it. If the moderators don't agree with my judgment call, they can move the thread.
And you linked to the forum for the Desire, not the Desire Z. They are completely different phones.

Considering what HTC 7 Pro has become, looks like the Desire Z is the only one phone coming from HTC to replace the TP2. What a pity!
I'll wait until something new comes out to replace my PPC. TP2 still does a great job for me.
Thanks again for the review.

potna said:
i got an evo back in august. i never thought id get another smart phone without a keyboard since i have had the 8125 8525 8925 and tilt2. its been a much easier transition than i thought moving to a phone with a giant screen let alone switching to a different os
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It true, with Swype, I actually find myself using the screen keyboard much more than I would have thought. In fact, for my next phone I may seriously consider one without a hardware keyboard . . . maybe. But I personally can't stand typing on-screen without Swype.
potna said:
oh and as far as gps, i too was curious about the navigation, google nav is the best gps nav app i have ever used, but it does rely on a cell phone data connection, i think it gets enough of the info cached ahead incase you loose signal but if it needs to reroute and you dont have signal you are dead in the water. so i went on to try a few stand alone gps apps and i ended up going with aura, it looks pretty and it works but i dont like it, but its a good backup to have incase i dont pay my bill, lol, or loose signal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had that same thought about having a nav program that doesn't need a data connection, so I have a backup in case I am in an area with dodgy coverage, or for foreign use. I might check out something like Copilot, which is only $5 for the US maps (and interestingly $80 for Europe!).

I would like to thank you also for the comparison and ask you about what I haven't read elsewhere.
Is there ability for teleconferencing inDesire Z?
Besides the mentioned problem with the DZ's speaker there were a few times that the feature was (even more than welcome) life-saving while using my rhodium. That, and the Excel files editing.
Also, (a "pro-" feature, not mentioned elsewhere) what about video out?
Am I asking for too much?

Redpoint:
I too have made the upgrade, from TP2 to G2 (Desire Z). Your findings mirror mine almost exactly.
Just in case any one is curious, I'll add my 2 pence.
I still kind of miss the resistive touch screen (think gloves or stylus for precision), but the cap screen is über responsive, and as you said, multi touch is pretty sweet.
I do not miss the complete lack of development of applications for WM. At least at any corporate or popular apps level.
I do miss the great MS Office and Outlook integration. Android does play nice with Exchange, though.
FWIW: Tmo G2's do have a Office compatible suite that should work for docs and xls, but I didn't get a chance to use it. I flashed to a new ROM too fast
I still have the TP2, and will likely futz with it some more, but the G2/DZ is a worthy successor.
Sent from my HTC Vision using XDA App

calrification on pro2 vs DZ
Sir/s,
i would like to know if DZ has the following functionalities:
1. exchange sync of email, calendar and contacts.
2. when you download exchange email, is it in html format?
3. can DZ record 2 way voice call? (not via speakerphone)
Above are the features that im frequently using on pro2.