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Just goes as the title. You think its hard for normal developers get noticed with their games?
Sent from my HD7
Yes and it will always be this way. MS will promote their services first.
I agree. On my iphone and on my captivate when i had them i would download any game that looked slightly interesting to me. Now i hardly give any games that arent xbox live a chance. I dont do it on purpose im just like eh no achievements no fun lol. I wonder if Microsoft will allow an alternative in the market like Openfeint for non xbox live games.
Disagree, good games are spread by word of mouth... there isnt many good games that arent xbox live sadly... bye bye brains and stuff got through because they are good...
Sure I download lots of various free games. Impossible Shoota and Alpajax/Spell it are good exmples of games that are doing well without xBox live support. However I really want Alphajax to have full xbox live support. I am an achievement whore!
Lol I do try non Xbox live titles but whenever I go into game section I see Xbox live first so I find fun ones there first
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Yes, There needs to be more filtering in the market.
More specifically:
When I go into the Market and select Applications (Not Games) I should see Applications only not games aswell, that kinda defeats the point.
When going into games, there's a Xbox Live category, this indicates to me that this is where I'll find Xbox Live games but they're still included in Top, New etc. They should be separate from the others.
Well their the best games available.
But is there a way for a normal dev to get a Xbox live title on their game title?
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Actually I've found a lot of great non-Live titles. A lot of them are free and ad-supported so it's a win-win. Impossible Shoota is probably the best example of this: the game has excellent gameplay, great looking graphics, online leaderboards, and is free thanks to ad-support. Bye Bye Brain is another great example; it's a tower defense zombie game with really excellent graphics and deep gameplay.
-AlphaJax (Unlimited trial)
-Bubble Birds (Free; 'Premium' version $1.99)
-Bubble Jump (Free)
-Bye Bye Brain Lite (Free; Full version $1.99)
-Impossible Shoota (Free)
-Quandra (Free)
-Scrambled (Free)
-Swipy Man (Free)
-Unite (Free)
So far, I've been more impressed with the free games than the XBL games. Usually XBL titles are just a complete ripoff (Rocket Riot for seven bucks? Really?) or are quick and dirty ports from iOS or Android that aren't as good as they should be (Need For Speed).
what ticks me off about xbox live games is that its too common practice to throw a couple of achievements to any ol game and slap a big xbox logo on it... i think its crap and a lot of the time dissapoints users to what they should expect from an xbox title on a platform that its main selling point is this
IMHO games that should come to mind and should be what an xbox live game would be are titles like The Harvest and ilomilo. games that have amazing graphics, gameplay, and overall worthy of what users expect from xbox. not some tetris (for example) some simple, mobile game or iphone port with some achievements baked in
mike21pr said:
what ticks me off about xbox live games is that its too common practice to throw a couple of achievements to any ol game and slap a big xbox logo on it... i think its crap and a lot of the time dissapoints users to what they should expect from an xbox title on a platform that its main selling point is this
IMHO games that should come to mind and should be what an xbox live game would be are titles like The Harvest and ilomilo. games that have amazing graphics, gameplay, and overall worthy of what users expect from xbox. not some tetris (for example) some simple, mobile game or iphone port with some achievements baked in
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Completely agree. Microsoft did a good job luring big-name developers into WP7 and now I hope they encourage those devs to make quality games that truly live up to the Xbox Live name.
OGCF said:
Completely agree. Microsoft did a good job luring big-name developers into WP7 and now I hope they encourage those devs to make quality games that truly live up to the Xbox Live name.
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Sadly in the beginning it's a waiting game...
I think they are shadowing normal games but for good reason. They have some bigger developers like Microsoft themselves, EA and Namco. Obviously everyone loves achievements regardless of how easy or hard they are. Achievements are what makes you try to finish a game even though it sucks. And of course my favorite is the leaderboard. Leaderboard is whats makes me come back to a game after I havent played it for weeks. When my friend finally beats my highscore I want to take back the top spot. And of course all this syncs up nicely to Xbox Live. And I can see all of this data on my PC or Xbox. So yeah being an Xbox Live game is more then just a title on the icon and some cheesy achievements.
Now in contrast I bought A Beanstalk Tale for $0.99. I wrote an article about the developer and wanted to support him. This game has awesome graphics, has its own online leaderboard, and even has its own achievements and a museum of sorts to showcase everything you gathered. But unfortunately even though this game is really good, I don't care about it as much as a lesser Xbox Live game. The reason is the leaderboard is a bunch of people I don't know. The achievements don't increase my gamerscore. So while I still play it occasionally it doesn't have that psychological motivation that an Xbox Live game has.
Yeah I agree. Some of them don't deserve it.
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There are good games in both ..but games from xBox live do get more exposure .. but some of the xBox live games are in a class of their own ..
you can fins some of the games that we reviewed it here : http://www.bestwp7games.com
http://mobilitydigest.com/indie-dev-making-six-figure-salary-from-wp7-ad-based-games/
i say this article says it all.
So according to Microsoft, Live on WP7 is their plan to compete against the 3DS and the NGP. But then they keep on releasing one title a week which is almost always a puzzle game (some Castlevania puzzler tomorrow).
You have to wonder what part of the platform they are taking seriously because everything is evolving at an alarming pace.
Don't they know that games are the most downloaded apps on other platforms? This is depressing.
Seems that they are indeed WP7's bestsellers and Microsoft continues to release games each week... so what's the problem?
They said XBL was pivotal to the platform, yet they release one single puzzle game a week. Not how you build a gaming platform is it? Can you imagine if apps were released at this rate? I don't see how else I can explain it.
Not that I bought my phone to play games but many people do nowadays.
Yeh XBL on WP is abit over-rated. But imo theyre focusing more on making it a companion to your xbox, rather than be a full fledged hardcore gaming device. Microsoft is focusing on the mass market casual gamers (where the money is) and not the hardcore gamers.
I don't think it's so much a matter of what MS focuses on as what third party developers are ready to provide at this time. Since the user base is rather small it's too risky to make expensive games, hence all this puzzle stuff.
The situation gets even more complicated for them because there are no native APIs. No matter how good XNA is, it means that code cannot be reused between iOS, Android andWP7, so they would need to keep a completely separate fork and maintain it. There was information from Epic who tried to bring their Unreal engine but didn't get permission from Microsoft to use native code. Of course they won't do it in XNA, it's most likely not even possible. But even if it were, it would be prohibitively expensive.
I don't really know how they'll compete against the 3DS and the NGP with these type of games. Like releasing Backgammon to compete with Zelda and God of War. I'm not dissing these casual games but as a gamer, I really think they must release a mix of both hardcore and casual games much like the iOS, Dead Space and Dungeon Defenders along with Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds.
I dont really see the point yet to release hardcore games without the performance update.
Stick to puzzles everyone likes puzzles their the most popular smartphone games in the world
I wouldn't call iOS a hardcore platform mainly because there are no physical buttons on any of their hardware. Yes 'hardcore' games are impressive, but when compared to a similar game on consoles/pc's, the controls are toned down to adapt to a touchscreen-only input, therefore making the overall gaming experience more 'casual'. A touchscreen imo best used to accompany hardware controls.
Yes that is true. Still, a good mix of both hardcore and casual games wouldnt hurt, as they will also cater to both sides of the market.
One xbox live title a week I find a decent enough time period. The games their releasing may not be the best, but others have already said why. I think that as the percentage of WP7 devices increase the quality of games will increase (it took the iPhone a long time to get something like Infinity Blade and Rage).
Am I the only one that notices the kinect demo? That game looked lame but the possibilities are looking great.
I agree with the OP. If Microsoft thinks they will be able to compete with the 3DS they need to start shelling out something other than puzzle games. Ive purchase most of the WP7 "xbox" live games save for the crappy anime stuff...and it is all variations of the same thing.
Making another shooter would be great. Resident Evil 4 got released on ios, why cant we get something like that.
The kinect demo is now showing up on my xbox, check the pic.
Yeah xbox live sucks on the phone now, but the possibilities are endless with kinect and multiplayer, as demonstrated.
ForeverImASpartan said:
I agree with the OP. If Microsoft thinks they will be able to compete with the 3DS they need to start shelling out something other than puzzle games. Ive purchase most of the WP7 "xbox" live games save for the crappy anime stuff...and it is all variations of the same thing.
Making another shooter would be great. Resident Evil 4 got released on ios, why cant we get something like that.
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+1 for this. Also, they already have all of those devs for XBLA. So what could be holding them back? The Xperia Play (Android) was also announced and its launch titles ,http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Sony+Ericsson+Xperia+Play/news.asp?c=27473 are better than that overpriced Pacman. I'm not really into buying overpriced, 1970's games just for cheevos. Also, the other platforms already have MMO's out, that can be played in quick bursts of around 5-10mins or longer (Pocket Legends). Besides, they released games like The harvest and NFSU, why can't they do it again? This is Xbox live after all, or is it?
Also, that kinect integration is really something to look forward to. That is IF you have the console and the Kinect itself (which I don't have).
slighmd said:
I don't really know how they'll compete against the 3DS and the NGP with these type of games. Like releasing Backgammon to compete with Zelda and God of War. I'm not dissing these casual games but as a gamer, I really think they must release a mix of both hardcore and casual games much like the iOS, Dead Space and Dungeon Defenders along with Fruit Ninja and Angry Birds.
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No one is going to compete those dedicated Gaming Devices with a phone.
If you really want to find a competition, it's gonna be the Xperia Play which is no better than XBL on WP7.
Although I'm looking forward to another 3D RPG/shooter coming to WP7
here's Xperia Play's line up of launch titles, from Pocket Gamer:
http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Sony+Ericsson+Xperia+Play/news.asp?c=27473
agreed
The Harvest and ilomilo IMO are the only ones worthy... i mean cmon, if microsoft wants to push the xbox brand on phones there should be at least a level of quality, graphics, and gameplay it must fill before its worthy of the logo. but what i see is some ho hum puzzle games and iphone ports with achievements built in... really? the sad part is when they were speculating this weeks release, they said that castlevania was coming to WP7.... and look what it turned out to be
i would love to see a exclusive WP7 version of HALO (NOVA exists so its more than possible) that should skyrocket the xbox live brand with gamers
mike21pr said:
agreed
The Harvest and ilomilo IMO are the only ones worthy... i mean cmon, if microsoft wants to push the xbox brand on phones there should be at least a level of quality, graphics, and gameplay it must fill before its worthy of the logo. but what i see is some ho hum puzzle games and iphone ports with achievements built in... really? the sad part is when they were speculating this weeks release, they said that castlevania was coming to WP7.... and look what it turned out to be
i would love to see a exclusive WP7 version of HALO (NOVA exists so its more than possible) that should skyrocket the xbox live brand with gamers
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I don't think they need to go so far as putting Halo on WP7 either, like someone else said mobile gamers are mostly casual gamers.
However they can do on mobile what they did on XBLA, middle ground games that appeal to everyone and that have quality. Indeed, no need to push the Xbox brand if you're not going to use it properly.
And only one game a week is just ridiculous.
Middle ground games or a mix of both casual and hardcore games. It'd be better if every week, they release 2 games. One for the casual gamer, one for the core gamer. Agree that releasing only one game a week is not good, unless they are running out of games to release hence the decision of 1game per week.
Seriously one game a week is amazing. You can't beat that.
External inputs turns other mobile OSs into hardcore gaming.
Microsoft needs not to forget XBL isn't successful for unlocking achievements.
Gang, now having all three popular major smartphone systems has allowed me to sample the gaming offerings they provide. It looks like WP7 provides the most fun and best games of all of them....simplistic and casual and high quality type games. There's a larger amount of more enjoyable games on WP7 than on iOS or Android.
I'm not a biased person and love all smartphone systems equally so please keep the rants and misunderstandings out . And am merely reporting what I'm experiencing. I'm driven to WP7 for the gaming enjoyment and spend more time playing games on it.
The current games I like and find very enjoyable for passing time are...not in ranked order:
ilomilo
Tiki Towers (I know, it's also on other systems)
iBlast Moki
Need for Speed: Undercover
Fruit Ninja (I know, it's also on other systems)
Bubble Town 2
Tower Bloxx New York
I Dig It
Parachute Panic
Jigsaw Guru
Rise of Glory
Chicks'n'Vixens
Sketch Defence
Word Hunt
Word Tangle
Peg Jump
Frog Log
Solitaire (Offscreen Technologies version)
One game that seems interesting, but I don't understand, is Pocket God. If anyone knows how to play it; what the objective is, let me know.
MartyLK said:
Gang, now having all three popular major smartphone systems has allowed me to sample the gaming offerings they provide. It looks like WP7 provides the most fun and best games of all of them....simplistic and casual and high quality type games. There's a larger amount of more enjoyable games on WP7 than on iOS or Android.
I'm not a biased person and love all smartphone systems equally so please keep the rants and misunderstandings out . And am merely reporting what I'm experiencing. I'm driven to WP7 for the gaming enjoyment and spend more time playing games on it.
The current games I like and find very enjoyable for passing time are...not in ranked order:
ilomilo
Tiki Towers (I know, it's also on other systems)
iBlast Moki
Need for Speed: Undercover
Fruit Ninja (I know, it's also on other systems)
Bubble Town 2
Tower Bloxx New York
I Dig It
Parachute Panic
Jigsaw Guru
Rise of Glory
Chicks'n'Vixens
Sketch Defence
Word Hunt
Word Tangle
Peg Jump
Frog Log
Solitaire (Offscreen Technologies version)
One game that seems interesting, but I don't understand, is Pocket God. If anyone knows how to play it; what the objective is, let me know.
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Agreed... Pocket God is a strange one though... I mean it really plays out like just a bunch of ways to kill your little minions with a ton of mini--games involved. Really just a game for those who love achievements.
Casual maybe, but personally i disagree. some devices/platforms have the same game with more features. Take fruit ninja for example, it has multiplayer on another platform.
slighmd said:
Casual maybe, but personally i disagree. some devices/platforms have the same game with more features. Take fruit ninja for example, it has multiplayer on another platform.
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FruitNinja is one of the worst port games... Glitches and missing function.
The List of Great games should not miss The Harvest
ios has games like Dead Space 2 and Infinity Blade, android has multiplayer and FPS games, WP7 is full of iphone ports or games that are more expensive than other platforms, no real time MP - I dont see how its the superior gaming platform.
efjay said:
ios has games like Dead Space 2 and Infinity Blade, android has multiplayer and FPS games, WP7 is full of iphone ports or games that are more expensive than other platforms, no real time MP - I dont see how its the superior gaming platform.
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Nicely said.
Agree. Aside from the ilomilo (great game btw) and The Harvest (which i couldn't finish due to savegame crashes) most games really are more expensive ports of iOS and Android games. Dunno why xbox cheevos make 0.99c games like pocket god, fruit ninja, etc more expensive. Still, M$ needs to step it up. Currently i'm playing Real Racing 2, Pocket Legends and Dundef (cross platform online multiplayer iOS and android) which imho M$ should get for their platform
There are a lot of games I didn't include, which are no doubt excellent. But I didn't include them because I don't play them or find them casually and simplistically fun. There are similar or exact games on other systems, but I included them because they make up the entirety of the offerings that can be had on this system. When Angry Birds comes out for WP7, it also will be included in the "fun" factor of WP7 gaming.
WP7's own unique games are much better than anything comparative found on any other system.
slighmd said:
Agree. Aside from the ilomilo (great game btw) and The Harvest (which i couldn't finish due to savegame crashes) most games really are more expensive ports of iOS and Android games. Dunno why xbox cheevos make 0.99c games like pocket god, fruit ninja, etc more expensive. Still, M$ needs to step it up. Currently i'm playing Real Racing 2, Pocket Legends and Dundef (cross platform online multiplayer iOS and android) which imho M$ should get for their platform
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Right, MS should put some great gameloft games like gangstar, modern combat, nova, etc.. even my old nexus one has it but i cant play it since the multitouch sucks. Dead space is another example (xperia play will be having it).. im just glad i can play dead space on ipad.. i really love that game! pocket legends is boring IMO.
Ilomilo alone is the definition of what a cellphone game should be. It's something you can play in short or long intervals, it's perfect for a handheld device, the graphics are great, the controls are flawless, I could go on and on but what it comes down to is no other mobile game compares.
I'd say wp7 has the potential to be the best of the 3, but has a ways to go before that is the case. There are some excellent games, however.
Maybe when the nextgen devices become available, better games (or ports lol) will alsp come out. But until then, my wp7 stays in the box while i play on my iP
Even a Microsoft fanboy like me can't agree the the OP. WP7 is a joke compared to iOS. Sure it may be a matter of time but as of today calling it the best smartphone gaming platform is being delusional.
Also, by the time great games like Dead Space come out on WP7 (which is also more wishful thinking, and will most likely be another port of the iOS version IF it ever does come) even better games would have already rolled out on iOS and android. Fiinal Fantasy 3, the DS version has already been announced for the iOS, Dungeon Defenders 2nd Wave already demoed for Android. Also, check out Desert Winds for the Android. These alone would make people think twice about gaming on WP7
What is tying down phones is the lack of hardware controls. When the Playstation phone comes on Android it will raise the bar out of sight. Even if there were no new games, just the PS1 emulator, it would dominate any smartphone.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/27/sony-announces-playstation-suite/
And other Android phones will get some of the benefits.
Microsoft can't compete with this, but they can at least reduce the damage if they:
-Launch an XBox phone.
-Produce a standard bluetooth controller that be added to any Windows Phone.
Then they will have to rely on new content, but can they get the necessary market share among gamers?
They are in a tough spot because they are competing against players (Nintendo, Sony) that have experience with portable gaming and existing content that can be used immediately.
Better position than Apple though.
I found another one called Krashlander. This is the pure, simplistic type, fun that really makes WP7 the best there is for smartphone gaming. Of course, the WP7-only games like ilomilo and others help it be the best, too. Of the 3 major smartphone systems, WP7 happens to be produced by the world's leading gaming company and it already, at this early age, shows.
Anyone here play Krashlander? IMO it's one of the best games on WP7 or any mobile OS period. If it was out on iPhone I reckon it would have rivaled angry birds by now.
What's your favourite level and which did you find most challenging?
I have managed to get 3 stars on all the levels apart from level 13. I have the skills but no luck lol.
I've recently discovered Krashlander, myself. I love it. It gets a bit tricky very early on, you have to be somewhat sufficiently coordinated, but is still a fun game. This and rest of the simplistic games on WP7 push it over the top for me for being the best system. I have all three major popular systems and find myself drawn to WP7 the most. Maybe it's because these simple games are easier to find on WP7 rather than on iOS or Android, I don't know, but it gives me the distinct impression WP7 is the premium gaming system. Krashlander is such a unique game that helps that impression along.
I think it is fun, but honestly I think the developer should take 90% of his code and release a game similar to this:
Or even a game like he has, but simplify the controls to just be jump or something.
The game is really fun as is, but sometimes frustratingly hard. Luckily, the developer allows you to opt out of a level after your 15th try, which I have had to use once, maybe twice.
In the last years I more and more saw that games (in general, not only for android) are more succesful if the graphics are cute.
Have you seen such a development too?
What kind of graphics do you prefer?
Cute ones?
Elegant ones?
And how important do you think are the graphics of a game?
Graphics are definitely important. It can make a game with very basic game play look awesome. I dont think it really matters if graphics are cute or not, but there is a genre of people who prefer cute things and plus, kids love it. Anyway, me personally, feel that if you aren't that great of a graphics artist and it takes you a very long time to make some of the graphics for your app...it may be best to just hire a freelancer and have them do the work. There are many graphics artists who make themselves available for work over at deviantart.com and their price isn't bad either.
The UI it's the most important ability of a developer, yes the code will make work the app, but the UI and UX guidelines will sell the app.
I personally prefer the Holo design because gives a very stock/aosp interface to any user, but it's only working with 3.0+ versions and with excellent results in 4.0+. So many of my apps are perfect for 4.0+ but with minimal support (in UI) for older SDK.
Inside the Holo library, I love the tabs, and the use of the ActionBar, also the use of swipes creates a very friendly interface.
See you!
Thank you for your replies, so if I understand you right, then you think graphics are even more important than gameplay. Very interesting opinions
I love a clean, simple look and flat look, but not metro. Metro is too flat, i can't even tell if it's a button or icon Generally i like the holo ui and pure android ui. It's classy,elegant and simply awesome
With android ui do you mean the old one or the new one (for example with 4.0) or both?
In my opinion the ui of android 4.X is awesome, but I am not a friend of the old one...
Talking about games, the first impression is always graphics. Gameplay is equally important, but it's the screenshots that people will see before downloading the game.
Though I prefer elegant graphics over cute ones, but cute ones can attract more kids.
Depends. I think that more serious games should have somewhat serious graphics, but games that are meant to be cartoony and funny should definitely feel that way.
I do feel, though, that every game has to look good within their category: cartoon is alright, but don't have majorly jagged lines .
soumya_digi said:
Talking about games, the first impression is always graphics. Gameplay is equally important, but it's the screenshots that people will see before downloading the game.
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I absolutely agree, and I have some experience with exactly this. I developed a game which is very basic looking (this was by design), and I can definitely say that it turned off most people simply because of their first impression seeing the screenshots. I should mention that the game is completely free and without ads - so these were not reasons to ignore the game. Those who did give it a go seemed to like it, but good graphics is the way to get people to give it a try in the first place. Even the best game won't do well unless people actually try it
As for the actual look, I think anything works as long as it looks good and appeals to the target audience - cute zombies may NOT always work, and neither will flesh eating kittens .
Photon532 said:
In the last years I more and more saw that games (in general, not only for android) are more succesful if the graphics are cute.
Have you seen such a development too?
What kind of graphics do you prefer?
Cute ones?
Elegant ones?
And how important do you think are the graphics of a game?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've also noticed more games featuring 'cute' graphics and just figured the author/publisher was going after a younger demographic. Cute can work. So can elegant. (in games or apps more generally) The important thing to me is that the game/app stay consistent with its own look and feel. Here's an example: I remember a game several years ago on iOS that was one of the first guard the tower from/with stick figure type games. The graphics were hilariously bad, so was the sound... but it was such a consistent and hilarious combination that I killed several hours playing it. It was original (at the time) and entertaining enough that its consistent lack-of-polish-style actually worked quite well.
That said, games the don't emphasize any particular style at all can work, if the gameplay is compelling enough. I'll take gameplay (or utility for non-game apps) over an ultra-polished finish any day, but I'm probably in the minority on this.
Thank you all for your replies and very interesting inputs.
To include everything, you say that cute graphics are especially for kids and the game should also be made for them.
In general the graphics should be good because of marketing, the first thing people see is of course the graphics, if they are horrible, they won't even give the game a chance.
The graphics should represent the game.
In general all who posted on this thread are more for serious graphics.
In the end gameplay is the reason why people play your game again and again.
I am very surpised about quite a lot of things here, I thank you a lot and maybe some others which were in my situation of nescience
i like games with great coloring and clean ui, and for android cartoonish graphics attract many people (like most ios games)
And if we talk about graphic, there's also one small but very important element - icon.
If you search something in market, this is first thing you see, then you read description - bad icon means probably bad software, only few will bother with further checking app represented by trashy icon.
I
combination of both
i think it should be combonation of both it should not be so cute like a little baby nor like a fully filled space elegant i think the mid will be the best:laugh::silly:
testing different graphics by segmenting your user base is a good way to know what works for whom. Use an A/B testing tool for that. (www.appiterate.com, I know, allows segmenting and also has a visual platform)
When I look at the top new apps they are almost exclusively high-res cartoony graphics that I could not make by myself in a decade. But there are still plenty of games with simple clean graphics: quite flat, blocks of colour with the odd shadow and gradient. It seems like the 'modern ui' is going this way which is advantageous to me as it is far, far easier replicate.