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Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
qazzi76 said:
Hi Chainfire,
Thank you for the clarification in the last thread on the different Qualcomm processor variants.
Admittedly I am still a little dubious about your specs because I'm sure I saw a datasheet for the 7200a that stated it was 90nm - however I know that you have been in this game for while (ROMs et al) so I will accept them and verify them when I get a moment)
I also agree that the TP2 did feel snappier than the TP1.
However your argument concerning the TP being a repackaged Tytn2 is a very weak one for the reasons you specified and many others.
The TP is clearly a different class of device in comparison to the Tytn 2 and definitely doesn't feel repackaged.
Also the phones have not simply been repackaged over the last few years, I've had most of them with considerable improvements in each until we reached the Qualcomm era pre snapdragon...
Also I'm not a fan for the 7200 series qualcomm processors for all types of video related reasons.
The snapdragon (also qualcomm) demonstrates innovation and shows promise as well as potential.
On another tangent I'm really loving the snapdragon capabilities they've demonstrated runing android in the netbook market at the moment too (720p hardware encoding and decoding according another engadget and gizmodo.
As usual - Time will tell - it never lies!
Question - Doesn't anyone else feel a little betrayed at the rate of hardware/software innovation in WM products at the moment?
I surely can't be the only one.
I've used these devices for ages and after seeing things like the Palm Pre and IPhone I feel a little frustrated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why has this been brough back to life? DaveShaw closed the last thread, can't you respect that and leave it for a bit?
No clearly I can't.
While the TP2 isn't that bad a device - if all else fails I will probably end up with one - There is an underlying issue here that needs to be discussed and addressed that isn't only applicable to the Touch Pro 2.
And further more I'm not offending anyone I'm encouraging discussion that needs to be encouraged.
I've been here since 2004 and been using these devices before 2004 and am seriously wondering what's happening with WM in the industry lately.
- WM7 promised the world but has yet to see the light of day.
- We still don't have properly implemented VGA recording in our devices
- Rich application experience is only available through 3rd party programs and pluggins when it should be available at the OS level.
- Why on earth do some programmers know how to manipulate the hardware at OS level better than Microsoft, the people that make the OS (Example Point UI)
Seriously what is going on here?
Have you seen the Palm Pre?
Have you seen the Iphone?
Have you seen Android Cupcake?
What do we have?
Microsoft has given us a half a hearted attempt at an OS refresh (6.5) and embarassingly all our rich app experiences are provided by third parties.
Why couldn't HTC release Rhodium level hardware with Android?
As for processor specs:
From the MSM7200A datasheet that I "absolutely don't have":
7200: 90 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
7200A: 65 nm CMOS (15 x 15 x 1.4 mm)
Some more interesting changes in non-A vs A are that the A has 24bpp display support for EBI2, and the memory is clocked at 166mhz instead of 128mhz (aside from the obvious 528mhz (533 officially) addition) and also uses a different GPS core. I assume all the latter is also in the 7201A but I cannot verify that, so...
As to the repackaging thing, perhaps you misunderstood me. I do not feel like the TP is a repackaged TyTN II, nor do I really feel the TP2 is a repackaged TP. But, if you say the latter you should also say the former - the thread starter only did the latter. Even if for one you may feel instinctively that it isn't repackaged and for the other you do, it's either both or neither, from my viewpoint.
I agree there have been many improvements, but most of them were not in the 'bare' hardware. And that was the discussion point of the thread starter, who stated in one of his posts that we were not talking about software. Obviously, casing, screens, etc have improvements as well as the software.
Again, I love the TP2. The first time I played with one was love at first sight.
As for video, the 7200 series is more than capable - just not supported very well. With fully optimized drivers and software, video playback should be much better than it is right now. Its the old trick of unleashing a little bit more potential with every device release to get people to upgrade. Sound business model, but obviously us techs frown at it.
As for snapdragon, I agree it has got awesome capabilities, but there are some caveats (note that I already played with snapdragon devices and it felt really fast to me... much faster than TP2).
Caveat #1: How will it stack up versus the Tegra? I've also seen Tegra (test) devices in action up close (no touching, though, and it was bigger than my pocket) and it did seem extremely awesome.
Caveat #2: It's still Qualcomm. While HTC is partially to blame for the whole mess the past few years, so is Qualcomm. Both of these companies continuously let us down performance-wise. Will the old dogs learn new tricks? Will major corporations ever actually care about their customers? Will they ever deliver what they promise? We are talking about HTC and Qualcomm here, and due to past experience I wouldn't put the chances of that very high.
Of course, Microsoft also has a big role to play in optimizing WM. It's a dog. But it's improving... I do have high hopes for WM7.
Do I feel betrayed? I don't think that's the correct word, but yes, I am disappointed (even if I do love the TP2 ). I think over time things will get better though. WM being the slow dog that it is, with the latest hardware and some effort it should still be technically possible to top iPhone performance by a large margin.
I can easily understand your frustration though. I am myself heavily invested in WM (my livelyhood actually depends on it) so I am also frustrated. It can be much better!
Hi Chainfire,
Oh - I see... Got you.
So the A supports higher bit resolution displays and has faster memory!
Ok I stand corrected about the MSM7200 series processors.
Somehow I'm not surprised the hardware is capable of good Video - I just haven't experienced it.. yet.. - But I also put that down to poor colaboration (possibly deliberately) on MS, HTC and Qualcomms part)
I also have been wondering about the Tegra but I see it taking ages to come to market based on NVidia's PDA GPU efforts before which eventually materialised in Dells axim x51v (PDA) initially and then imates 6150(Phone) ages after anouncement.
Obviously this could change.
I agree the Tegra is a worthy force to be reckoned with if implemented correctly - I unfortunately have only seen working examples of the Tegra on Youtube but what I have seen has been very very impressive GUI wise.
The Snapdragon looks kinda crazy too with its 1.3ghz potential when its already flying at 1ghz on the TG01 and the whole netbook angle/implementation of snapdragon.
I guess we'll have to wait and see what WM7 has to offer although I imagine it's must be a little difficult for you at the mo with the whole Android and apple app store gaining ground and making their mark in industry.
Anyhow I wish you good luck with your WM based business projects/ventures.
Maybe tp2 use msm7201A http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=522460
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
Mine still not in...
EDIT: Checked FCC pics, that one indeed seems to have 7201A. Wonder if the EU version will also have this or have 7200A. We'll know soon enough I guess!
Chainfire said:
That would be interesting, it is listed as 7200A everywhere on the net. But as some people already have one, perhaps they should check the about screen?
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Click to collapse
UK version 7200A-528MHz, according the the About screen.
Hmm, that makes it likely the US versions will be MSM7201A and the rest of the world will get MSM7200A... Interesting!
out of interest im in uk and mine has the 7200A...
Just trying to bring some positivity to the forums.
I bought WP7 because it's got the best music player on the market, a smooth UI, xbox live integration, great games with the promise of even better which is completely believable after seeing such titles as ilomilo, xbox live integration, it's range of hardware selection which though it can't touch android beats out iphones selection, expandable memory, and because overall it's just got the most beautiful UI. It never feels like they took the best from another OS and just improved it.
I had a Zune HD and loved it so much that when i saw WP7 had taken the metro ui, Zune media and xbox live and put it on a phone that was it for me.
Zune is so far ahead of itunes it makes them look out of date (bar the remote control features this needs to be implemented asap)
Quality for me is so much more important than quantity. Other phones have a lot of cool stuff but none look and feel like WP7 or the quality of its media.
Then the cherry comes xbox live this is it for me, I am a huge gamer and xbox live is where it is at, period. All in all this is the greatest user phone ever it may lack high end features but it more than makes up for it by doing what it does better smoother and sexier then any other device you can buy today.
Loved the look of the UI, and Xbox live intergration. I bought a HD7 for the big screen, I was bored of my iPhone too
REason
I have tried all other OS and I am somewhat I would say loyal to Windows mobile. Honestly I sortof got tired of having to update my device bi-weekly or resetting device to do certain things, and for all the features it had build in I had purchased from someone for wm6.5. Like checking my friends online status on xbox live, I loved the zune interface I had a regular not an HD but my kid brother had one and loved it. I am optimistic they will enable more functions built and I am patiently waiting on the other things from 6.5 to be ported and more. And I was somewhat jealous of every other phones bigger screen (than my tp2)
Got pissed with Android, waiting for updates and the UI. I hated WP7 first, because I was in love with Android guy, but after some time I saw what **** it is and just started to get to know with WP7. And then I realised that this OS will be perfect for my needs and after some time, I sold my Desire Z, it had defect with keyboard (before I had desire, which had defects too) and bought Omnia7. It's perfect, I'm perfectionist and this phone is just awesome, no single flaw so far...
Also came from iOS (iPhone 3G, 3GS) Android (nexus one). Reasons why i switched to WP7:
1. Xbox live and also their promise of great games, as i also am a gamer
2. Metro UI, slick and smooth. It just works
3. Xbox live
4. Zune
5. Xbox live
It does what I need it to do and does it efficiently.
1) I liked how the UI looked
2) I want something fast
3) I wanted something that was standardized (with minimum system specs) so I could expect apps to work with it for a while
4) I wanted something different
5) I didn't want to have to spend time tweaking my phone in order to get it to work well.
6) XBOX Live
7) Fast camera
1. Its smooth and fast
2. Its different
3. Its v1.0 of an OS, something I hadn't had before
4. Got tired of tweaking the hell out of winmo
5. Tried android on the hd2 and it reminded me of IOS, just laggier, with no promise of device updates.
6. All the multimedia options: netflix, slingbox, bitbop, zune for music, zune for video, zune handles all my podcasts
7. It doesn't freeze up for me, ever! (OK once since US launch, but even then it soft reset itself)
8. Developers: the apps were are getting seem to be at least as good as IOS and look better and smoother than the same apps on android (if they even have them)
9. Games: once again, on par with IOS games, most android phones can't handle top games. Definitely better than Winmo games of the same name.
10. Notice how I didn't say enterprise or office integration, etc. My phone is a toy to keep me occupied at work, when out with the family and there is down time, at the gym on the treadmill, etc.
11. It's nice to show off a new feature/app of the phone to someone and not have the phone freeze on you!!!
Getting Older and Wiser ?
I came from a WM 6.5 environment where I tweaked, flashed new ROMs and Radios, and updated applications for several hours a week. What I wanted was:
. No more stylus, fingers only (I won't get into a fight over WM 6.5, no matter what I did, it was NEVER totally finger friendly).
. Larger screen (at least 4.0", my eyes aren't getting any better).
. Faster processor, more memory
. Fluid and fast OS/UI
. Something that just works and does not REQUIRE tweaking and endless flashing
. Apps that are updated automatically (some 6.5 ROMs and apps support this, but not integrated seamlessly)
. Something that let's ME use IT and doesn't use ME.
I am finished with tweaking and flashing. I did it in the beginning because I thought I had to in order to get a phone the way I liked it. After WP7, I understand there is no real need, I just got so used to it. I thought it was "normal". I now realize how much time I wasted and how the OS was driving me to waste time rather than save time.
JamesAllen said:
I came from a WM 6.5 environment where I tweaked, flashed new ROMs and Radios, and updated applications for several hours a week. What I wanted was:
. No more stylus, fingers only (I won't get into a fight over WM 6.5, no matter what I did, it was NEVER totally finger friendly).
. Larger screen (at least 4.0", my eyes aren't getting any better).
. Faster processor, more memory
. Fluid and fast OS/UI
. Something that just works and does not REQUIRE tweaking and endless flashing
. Apps that are updated automatically (some 6.5 ROMs and apps support this, but not integrated seamlessly)
. Something that let's ME use IT and doesn't use ME.
I am finished with tweaking and flashing. I did it in the beginning because I thought I had to in order to get a phone the way I liked it. After WP7, I understand there is no real need, I just got so used to it. I thought it was "normal". I now realize how much time I wasted and how the OS was driving me to waste time rather than save time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah yes, the number 1 reason I got wp7, to actually use the phone, instead of always tweaking/fixing it!
1/. I had a Zune HD which I enjoy immensely, WP7 is Zune HD+++
2/. I play my XBL games more than my actual XBOX games, +1 WP7 for fun games
3/. I hated tweaking my Touch Cruise and Symbian Phones
4/. I like smooth scrolling.
5/. I really didn't like the icon grid, which is why I sold my Ipod Touch and got a Zune HD in the first place.
6/. The animation speed of Bing Maps was ridiculous on the phone I played with at the T-Mo store.
7/. Not many people have it, not because it's a **** product, but because they just don't know what they're missing. I like quiet brilliance and WP7 is just that.
Quiet brilliance. I just hope for MS and our sakes that that turns into a smash hit for them somewhere down the line.
1. I wanted a different OS. Most of the other OS' seem a bit boring to me.
2. I like being an early adopter. I was with iOS (sort of) and having something that no one else has is pretty nice.
3. The apps are pretty good thus far. I can see myself getting more apps compared to Android.
4. I trust Microsoft more than Google. Mostly because my current laptop (running Windows 7) has not failed me and Google is, well, Google.
I was planning to get a Captivate but I realized that I would waste hours of my time hacking and flashing it and I didn't want to do that anymore. I wanted a phone that had great features and was just a great experience out of the box. The Focus did that for me.
1. Fluid and Intuituve UI
2. Zune
3. All the live stuff
4. Zune
5. UI
z33dev33l said:
Just trying to bring some positivity to the forums.
I bought WP7 because it's got the best music player on the market, a smooth UI, xbox live integration, great games with the promise of even better which is completely believable after seeing such titles as ilomilo, xbox live integration, it's range of hardware selection which though it can't touch android beats out iphones selection, expandable memory, and because overall it's just got the most beautiful UI. It never feels like they took the best from another OS and just improved it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know, i really like it when folks are positive in starting a thread. even mentioning the competition, in a positive way. kudos to you for not stooping.
also, i could have almost bought an ATT product today, except there are so few choices besides the iphone over there. tmo is having terrible connectivity problems in my area, and if there were a non-contract alternative, i -may- just give it a shot (wp7).
again, thanks for the fresh air.
Coming from Winmo6.5 (HTC Touch HD)
1) Wanted something different/New compared to what's out there already. I believe this is the only smartphone OS that has actually been designed in an artistic/consistent kind of way. Other OS' resemble desktops too much and are either too messy/cheap looking and inconsistent (Android) or just look plain and static looking (iOS app-launcher UI). Though, the home and app screen on WP could be better if the background was customisable, as well as offer more themes.
2) Liked the closed ecosystem of iOS (where all apps just work, and no more tweaking required to get the phone to perform smoothly) but wanted hardware choice. Plus I've got the iPad already, and didn't want to buy what is basically the same device.
3) Wanted to adopt a new OS that could become a major player in the smartphone industry.
1. WM 6.5 was not supported anymore
2. UI made the way I like it - look, concept, homescreen, and unified across all of apps - something I hated on other platforms because of design fragmentation
3. Stable and fast
4. Intergrated with Hotmail
5. All the Office (email, docs, OneNote) however this needs to be improved
6. Hope for a great support by MS giant and their promised commitment
7. Integrated Maps, Music, Xbox, Marketplace
I just pointed things which I thought are better than on other OSes.
P.S. I also dream of some OFFLINE apps especially dictionaries.
1. Somehing new.
2. Wife has Android, mates have BB's and iPhones... wanted something different to tell them how much their phones suck compared to mine.
3. Cloud Sync
4. Office & Exchange
5. Beautifull UI design
was due for an upgrade and able to grab a samsung focus for $30 from wally world. i though, why not? i decided it was time to let my N1 go as well as many other google products/services i had been using because i don't like googles stance on net neutrality and them crawling in bed with the government.
surprisingly, i've really enjoyed my focus. the battery life is outstanding, the camera is quite good, the screen looks great, great games, the music player rocks and i love wireless syncing, it's very fast and smooth. i'm looking forward for the bugs to get ironed out, some very necessary features added and the app store to grow. one of the BEST features is that you can simply uninstall all the bloatware crap att or any other carrier puts on there.
i hope the gates clan keeps this os fresh and up to date with some thoughtful innovations.
I take no credit for this, ita a great article i came across that made the most sense in a while related to hardware :
http://www.mobiletechworld.com/2011...erately-need-more-powerful-devices-this-year/
As you have probably already noticed I was at Mobile World Congress this week so I had the opportunity to play around with some of the latest and most powerful handsets ever created. This year was obviously dominated by Google’s Android platform which took center stage at the convention with essentially every OEMs demonstrating or unveiling products running the immensely successful OS. What does it have to do with Windows Phone 7 hardware ? Well if there’s one thing that really garbed my attention it is the fact that not a single Android device I played with was as snappy and smooth as the Samsung Omnia 7 device I had in my pocket (or any iPhone model). Yes some of the devices on display were running non finalized software and probably hardware too but this has already been the case with retail devices like the Galaxy S and Desire HD which feature more powerful hardware than all the currently released WP7 devices.
I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: Android is the new Windows Mobile. OEMs want to differentiate their the products and one of the best way to do this is to use the latest and greatest chipsets, screen technology or other fancy hardware components. But as an end user, why should I care about the newest Exynos 4210, TI OMAP 4430, Tegra 2 if it can’t provide me with the same user experience as the now nearly 3 years old QSD8250 found in my Windows Phone 7 device? Similar to the old Windows Mobile days; OEMs are using Android’s “openness” as a test bed for their new CPUs and chipsets and are pumping out devices with crazy hardware specifications to show themselves in the press and sell device purely based on check list features: Dual-Core CPU ? Check. XX Mpix camera ? Check. 3D Cameras? Check. Huge Screen? Check etc. The issue here is that device manufacturers are more interested in time to market so optimizing the software to work with the hardware is just an afterthought. It’s not Google’s job to code the driver for the Samsung Exynos or for TI’s OMAP4. Google doesn’t even want to get the browser to use GPU acceleration for smoother scrolling and panning so the device manufacturers shouldn’t even count on the big G to give them any kind meaningful help in this department (Samsung has apparently implemented GPU acceleration to the browser in some unreleased Galaxy S firmware builds).
HTC has apparently learned the lesson a long time ago and has instead decided to milk the same SoC for while and instead just improve it’s Sense software layer every time it releases a new batch of devices. The end user is in both cases being presented with less than optimal solutions / offerings: On one hand you have new hardware that goes totally unused (Samsung, LG) and on the other you are buying exactly the same hardware but with an updated software layer (HTC).
Now let’s go back to Windows Phone 7 for minute. Take a Google Nexus One/ HTC Desire and compare it to the similarly speced WP7 devices. Which one is the snappiest and offers the smoothest UX? Same for the HTC HD2 running WM6.5 compared to the same device running Windows Phone 7. Microsoft has several big advantage with WP7 compared to Android. First, the have enforced strict HW guidelines and are currently only supporting Qualcomm’s Snapdragon SoCs and their Adreno GPUs. Secondly the Adreno GPUs are closely related to the Xenos GPU found in the Xbox360 so the company was already quite a bit familiar with architecture. Thirdly they control the APIs (Direct3D Mobile through DXGI and probably Direct2D for IE9 Mobile) unlike Android which relies on OpenGL ES and the drivers developed by the chipset manufacturers. The Windows Phone 7 ecosystem is like a console ecosystem with one set of drivers and APIs all controlled and certified by Microsoft while Android is more like a PC ecosystem filled with tons of different hardware configurations, driver versions controlled by nobody (Qualcomm even told me that OEMs don’t really bother including the latest drivers in the devices just because they are more concerned by the shipping date of the handset than with the end user experience. For example, as of right now the SE Xperia Play is the Android handset that has the latest Adreno 205 drivers).
Who would have thought that Microsoft would be able to easily port IE9 (which requires a DX10 GPU on the desktop) to Windows Phone 7 which only runs on a relatively old Adreno 200 GPU (DX9 capable) ins such a short time? Now take a look at the current state of the Webkit on Android: Yes it’s blazing fast at loading web pages on those super powerful handsets but after that the UX is simply anticlimactic because of the lack of HW acceleration. This is supposed to be fixed in Honeycomb on the tablets right? But where’s the smartphone version? From what I have seen at MWC the touch responsiveness of the Android 3.0 tablets varies greatly from one device maker to another. So once again Google’s lack of control of the hardware and drivers is going to hurt the end user.
This is not to say that Windows Phone 7 should be stuck with the current QSD8250. New high-end WP7 devices are going to be announced later this year because technology evolves at a rapid pace and Microsoft will obviously want to support higher resolution screens and video formats (and yes they are working on new Chassis but the Nokia partnership which was decided only last Thursday changed some of the plans), more graphically intensive 3D games and applications but the point here is that they are in no rush to do this because they can squeeze a lot more out of the first generation Snapdragon SoC than what is possible with Android. Everything I just said so far also applies to Apple’s iPhone which is quite similar to Windows Phone 7 and I personally think that there’s no need for Apple to switch to a dual-core SoC for the upcoming iPhone 5 given that the A4 is still powerful enough for 99% of the tasks (but if they do then you can be sure that they will have the software to take advantage of it). Android is obviously a really great OS that I enjoy using it on a daily basis thanks to all the features it supports but Google should really stop the madness and take over control of what should or shouldn’t be done on the platform. OEMs are loving it right now because they are free to do whatever they see fit but I really think that it will hurt the platform in the long run when people start to realise that they paying for hardware that most of the time isn’t used all or just paying for a software update (HTC..).
What Windows Phone 7 is in desperate need of is software updates filled with differentiating features and thrid-party access to more APIs so they developers can create more exciting and advanced applications.
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Discuss...
Pretty much the facts.... I mean that is just an astounding article... spot on.
As an Android user who is otherwise impartial to OS wars, I wholeheartedly agree. For months now, I've been telling people that Android reminds me of the old Windows Mobile. Every WM7 device I have ever played with has exhibited exemplary smoothness and snappyness compared to any Android handset you care to name. It's a shame because Android is really good otherwise.
Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk
IMO, although it would be nice to have, WP7 doesnt have to go overboard like Android is doing when it comes to specs as to dual core cpu's, 3d displays and such. I believe that they should improve hardware based on features such as front facing camera to add video chat functinality, perhaps a video output via 3.5mm jack (since requiring hdmi might be pushing it a little across all oem's) etc.
Im positive that if they bump up the cpu to support at least second gen snapdragon with its 45nm architecture, improved 205 Adreno GPU and much faster clock per clock compared to first gen, i have no doubt that besides the inmensly graphical stressing situations, WP7 would run circles round any dual core Android device since it being used to its full potential and proper optimization and drivers makes it not have a elephant on its back to carry
I think it is a given that we will eventually see more powerful Qualcomm SoCs show up in WP7 devices, and possibly other manufacturers' SoCs. This generation might become the "budget" chassis in 2012...Who knows?
What I do like, and want it to remain the same, is the fact that Microsoft needs to certify whatever hardware specs is used, so when updates are pushed out, Microsoft wouldn't need to run to each manufacturer and ask for drivers...
I'm sold where can I buy one? I kid, I kid. I have a Focus.
One thing is for sure, the overall opinion of the phone UI is excellent for all the listed reasons. Thanks for the post.
I compare this current experience to my experience with Windows 7 rc. Much like the day I installed Windows 7 to my lowly Dual Core (e2150, 2gb, 7200 HDD), it was good but not great in terms of speed, quick but not fast. Then, the cycle moved on and new hardware at low prices came into my life...
Now at Quad Core, 8 gb, Dual GPU, SSD, it is like driving a Buggati Veyron, downhill, on a 5 lane speedway, with no traffic. Life is instantaneous, the only limit...my ability to click as fast as it acts. ha! It happens as if I had on a thinking helmet and it sucked the idea out of my head!
I can only imagine wp7 on the set of phones that will come out...8 months...1 to 2 years from today...oh yeaaaaaa
close your eyes, think about it. Did you think about it? Think again, that's right. Amazing.
Wasn't that nice? Ahhhh yeaaaaaa
With dual core and a 2x faster GPU...oh my...it will get smoother and faster...hard to imagine and exciting at the same time. :splooge:
All in due time, I am happy with my phone today and happily have put my development time into other projects and not Wm6.5. Like this one from Johnny http://hackaday.com/2011/02/09/low-cost-video-chat-robot/
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
Reflexx1 said:
I don't really expect to see WP7 handsets with faster processors. It isn't needed. Every app or game being made will be aiming for a certain minimum standard.
I do see improvements coming in extra features (like a front facing camera). And I do expect to see handsets with more and more memory.
If the end of 2011 brought WP7 devices with the current processor, but also offered 768 MB RAM, 32 GB storage and a front facing camera, that would be one hell of a competitive device.
Then in the holiday of 2012 we could see WP8 push the hardware limits by launching with some really high minimum specs. But at the same time, still support WP7 for "budget" handsets.
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Click to collapse
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Yeah but is it partially due to room? I mean, Sense ROMs running slower than the cleaned up and simpler AOSP ROMs? I get the lack of acceleration ... a d understand the end result and why people might complain ... but my phone is snappy even though at times I notice slow down .. but that is hardly reason to ignore stability updates, even others. I mean , while my phone might be running smooth here ... it may slow down there. I see the choppy scroll .. but I've seen friends WP7 - uh, phones? - slow down at times too.
I get sick of this WP7 is constantly butter because its not. More often than not? Sure. But I rarely get agitated at the speed of mu device and most don't either ... sure I can see it, but I've also seen my.phone jump as much as my friends WP7 devices. It all depends. Overall, sure ... but it still doesnt touch iOS. To think you are major steps ahead is hype. More overhead here .... lack of acceleration here ... it's not shocking when you think about it. Android uses more resources and overhead ... you have such q standardized system. Its almost not surprising. And it's NOT suggestive of you being "good" at the moment.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
That's a great article. I agree 100%. I had a Samsung Galaxy S and with it's freshest time it had the most powerful chips int the markets, but even today it is not lag free, because of crappy Samsung optimizations to the software. That's why I really don't believe the new Galaxy S II will be any better with it's dual core. You could see it from the videos, that it's laggy at the moment and I don't believe Samsung will get it lag free ever.
fast hardware = bad ?
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
N8ter said:
The current WP7 devices are fine. Just make sure you get one with 16G Storage and 512+ RAM or hope you're gonna be lucky enough to find a big SD Card that works well the first time. Data loss due to a bad/incompatible SD Card months down the line is... Unfun!
I want my next phone to have the IBM Watson OS
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Click to collapse
Why is 512+ RAM important, I was thing about getting the HTC 7 Pro, which only has 448 RAM and also is 16gb necessary if I don't use my phone as a media player as HTC 7 Pro only has 8gb as well?
Beesneazy, you're either completely full of crap or just delusional. I mean wow. Android fanboyism at its ugliest. Yeesh.
Ohgood, did you read the article? If you did, perhaps it's time to go back to Hooked on Phonics to work on word comprehension...
Anyhow, on topic, I completely agree with the article posted by OP. Kiddies like these Android fanboys love to deny the truth but it is what it is. Did everyone really think Microsoft would just sit back and be pummeled in the mobile phone market forever? With the right moves in the future WP7 will be huge. Maybe knock Android back down to third or fourth place and setup a head to head with iOS...
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
ohgood said:
this smacks of hardware envy something terrible.
surrrrre, android + quad cores will suck... but wp8 will be perfect. whatever, if ever.
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Click to collapse
Yes, and when you get your quad core phones that are still lagging, and still dont recieve the latest updates, and are still running a version of android that is essentially a pallet swap of 2.1 and still looks like a low end iphone we'll be happy with our maybe dual or maybe quad-core phones that run smoother, have better games (because aside from iphone ports and maybe 1-2 other games androids selection is just terrible), have a decent media player, have oustanding integration with business and personal matters, and we'll actually have a NEW OS not just an overhyped pallet swap of the previous version.
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
N8ter said:
The minimum specs must be maintained and they must be maintained at a level that ensures user experience will not be compromised for people who bought launch devices. In the holiday season of 2012 people will still be stuck on contract with current devices, probably for months to come.
All of a sudden apps will be updated in a way that their phones will choke running these apps.
Just upping the minimum specs because you think it sounds cute is a dumb idea. I doubt Microsoft will do it, and if they do, people will sort of laugh at them and they will lose a ton of customers. By then RIM will have QNX Blackberries and WebOS may be well-developed. There will be even more choices than we have today...
They really have to take an "Apple" approach to hardware support, IMO. It's the only thing that makes sense sort of overspeccing your devices and enticing a bunch of geeks to upgrade their phones every year for major software updates/bug fixes every 9 months to a year.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure what you're attempting to address when you quoted me. I never mentioned changing the minimum specs of WP7.
And I think it's pretty much guaranteed that WP8 will have a completely different set of minimum specs. Do you expect it to never change?
vetvito said:
They need sexier devices. I must admit the three buttons on the front do look classy.
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Click to collapse
Exactly! I agree they don't need more powerful devices but they do need more appealing hardware (for a start a 32GB device would do no harm).
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sad but true. WP7 is quite late and if you think about it the real launch will be with Nokia, I doubt they'll sell anything before that as nothing has changed since October.
vetvito said:
Fact WP7 will never catch Android or IOS.
Sure WP7 is nice. Serious competitor, nope.
Think realistic and remove your love affair. Maybe WP7 can be 5th place or if things go well 4th place.
Now flame on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this is true only because the majority of cellphone owners are complete morons.
first of all, I think WP7 OS is great and i have my omnia 7 for about 18months now, so im in a great position to say what i think of it.
for the first time in 18 months, im starting too look at the Android OS. why?
WP7 Hardware STILL dosnt cut it and there not a single true wp7 high end device out there.
examples,
the aging low res
low memory (especially if you live in the UK 8 gb phones really?)
poor GPU (60 fps is the minimum standard and wp7 games seem to be struggling to hit 30 fps. only the games with poor graphics run at 60fps on wp7. its embarrasing. i wouldnt show my android /iphone owning friends these games on my phone.
single core - sure the actual OS generally is nice and smooth ( although mine has definately slowed down recently maybe as im running out of memory?) however try opening PDF files they slow right down and take an age to open
Skydrive, i use skydrive all the time, i log on today and now instead of my usual 25GB i see i now only have 7GB ? whats going on here, skydrive was the only thing keeping my phone running over since i have only 8, ( actually 7GB of storage on my phone........
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish
Read this article:
http://wmpoweruser.com/skydrive-for-windows-now-available-to-download-features-as-promised/
It will give you a link to 'upgrade' your SkyDrive storage back to 25GB. I just did this yesterday for an account, so it should still be working. It also has a link for the new SkyDrive Windows 7 program, which makes SD now on par with DropBox (Better, actually since it now keeps the phone in sync with folders on the computer).
thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?
davidebanks said:
thanks for that .......should keep me ticking over until my contract ends. by then i expect ( more like hope actually) that there will be at least 1 wp7 htc device in 6 months?
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I hope they make something like the hardware used for the ONE S.
I was helping my friend get her very first ever smart phone (Lumia 710) yesterday. We were at Car Toys. The sales guy went to the back to get the ONE S to show it off. Granted, I'm in no way passionate about Android, but it is one sexy piece of hardware. Just the right thickness, but a great sturdiness and weight to it. I was really impressed with its feel. Were there no Nokia, I'd go w/ HTC. Samsung's all feel like plastic graham crackers to me.
Single core and all those things, do you really need it or just to say Hey I have dual cores. For me, I don't think dual core is needed.
About the GPU, yes I think the game graphics can be improved by a lot seeing those FPS games on iphone.
To the OP, glad that you have realised and awake about the drawbacks...
Have been using my mozart for 13months++, bought the HTC one X last month,honestly my 1st android device. It is great, don't listen to all those lagging&force close BS...give it a try...no regret on one X...
lol...smoked by WP7???who cares?i can play cut the rope: experiment,angry bird space, highlighting and add notes to my PDF lecture slides(this is the crucial one), cheaper apps and etc....
now my mozart is collecting dusk and work as alarm clock[this is where WP7 excel at (easy task)]
davidebanks said:
like i said at the start, the OS it self is really great, i just wish i could have the OS on a device as powerful as the "old"Samsung galaxy s2 ( I say old but its still WAY more powerful than WP7 devices.) but the hardware is really letting WP7 Down... no wonder sales have been rubbish
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you like the experience of Windows Phone but want more modern hardware, Windows Phone 8 might be worth looking at.
It will be based on the NT kernel and will support more powerful CPU / GPUs (including multi-core CPUs) and higher screen resolutions.
There are plenty of other threads discussing WP8 (including timing) if you want more information. I'd expect it to be out within 6 months, assuming you're on a 2 year contract.
OP, your post is useless as all your other 232 posts. Hope to never see you again in WP7/Win8 forums (you may also pick up a few andro-stupid-trolls with)
Get a phone to suit your needs end of line.
I'm also leaving windows phone for android.
I've been a huge windows phone supporter (went from windows mobile to windows phone) and i still think metro is the greatest thing on any phone. But i'm tired of not having key features that i find essential for any phone. I mean common, no way to turn off auto rotation? No way to view notifications other than live tiles? No way to lower volume without lowering ring volume? No way to turn off 3G (if you had AT&T in NYC you'd understand why)
These are things i consider very very basic and should be implemented.
I really don't care about the apps. That's not why i'm switching. I'm switching because i have a problem with the OS not having basic functionality.
Hi guys, lets try to keep the forum focused in DEVELOPMENT, in this section for WP7. Thread closed.
Ok, so I just ordered a Mi Max 128GB/4GB for Black Friday (from geekbuying) and was wondering if this device can actually support OpenGL ES 3.2, and I am asking if it can support it hardware-wise cause I know it won't work on android <7.0, so anyone know?
Adreno 5xx series GPU's have full support for EGL 3.2 with Android extension along with Vulkan support. So it's expected that they will be supported in Android 7~7.1.
Edit: & Android 7.0.1 is definitely coming (probably early next year in stable update):
http://en.miui.com/thread-420161-1-1.html
Zola III said:
Adreno 5xx series GPU's have full support for EGL 3.2 with Android extension along with Vulkan support. So it's expected that they will be supported in Android 7~7.1.
Edit: & Android 7.0.1 is definitely coming (probably early next year in stable update):
http://en.miui.com/thread-420161-1-1.html
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Click to collapse
Thank you, that's what I was expecting as well but even on Qualcomm's site the specs of the 510 are not clearly stated, also good to know we will in fact get 7.0.1 (although I plan to stay away from MIUI).
This should mean we might even be able to get at least somewhat decent Wii&GC emulation on this device in the future which is pretty exciting for me since there are still a lot of games I bought and never got around to finishing or even playing.
Ranomez said:
Thank you, that's what I was expecting as well but even on Qualcomm's site the specs of the 510 are not clearly stated, also good to know we will in fact get 7.0.1 (although I plan to stay away from MIUI).
This should mean we might even be able to get at least somewhat decent Wii&GC emulation on this device in the future which is pretty exciting for me since there are still a lot of games I bought and never got around to finishing or even playing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have to high hopes that Dolphine emulator will fly on Adreno 510, the driver's especially sheder compiler are far cry from anything good also hardware capabilities (EGLS 3.2, Testilation engine & Vulkan compatibility) don't count much without proper & good driver's support. On the current Android gaming scene A510 is wonderful but it won't shy with Dolphine (nothing will, best behaviour you will have with New Rogue series [Imagination Technology] but their is no any newer SoC for Android with it we will see how will MTK X30 behave 2Q next year).
Edit: By the way this whose a best deal for it when I searched wanting to buy a full prime one in the mean time I decided not to go with it & instead both a 3/32GB S650 version in land where I live. But search again me by you can find a better deal.
https://toponedigital.aliexpress.com/store/group/Xiaomi-MAX/342812_507286278.html
Best regards.
Zola III said:
Don't have to high hopes that Dolphine emulator will fly on Adreno 510, the driver's especially sheder compiler are far cry from anything good also hardware capabilities (EGLS 3.2, Testilation engine & Vulkan compatibility) don't count much without proper & good driver's support. On the current Android gaming scene A510 is wonderful but it won't shy with Dolphine (nothing will, best behaviour you will have with New Rogue series [Imagination Technology] but their is no any newer SoC for Android with it we will see how will MTK X30 behave 2Q next year).
Edit: By the way this whose a best deal for it when I searched wanting to buy a full prime one in the mean time I decided not to go with it & instead both a 3/32GB S650 version in land where I live. But search again me by you can find a better deal.
https://toponedigital.aliexpress.com/store/group/Xiaomi-MAX/342812_507286278.html
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did not say it would fly but it would have at least somewhat decent performance which for me means playable, especially since most of the games I want to play are for GC not Wii and are RPG games (except perhaps the Sonic Adventure games but I can play the DC version of those if the performance is too bad), the only few Wii games I would like to play would anyway not be practical (if possible at all) because they use the huge mess that the Wiimote is (mainly Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World).
Plus I have seen Snapdragon 808 with the 7.0 dev preview (OpenGL ES 3.2 supported) running Dolphin quite well and even with lower performance that would be enough for me.
Either way I would probably end up starting the games and not finishing them for a long time as I keep doing, start them while traveling and then too busy with College and stuff to finish them and then start an other game (like I did with 7th Dragon 3 on my 3DS, Tales of Eternia for PSP and countless others) but it would still be nice to know I at least have the possibility of playing those games on the go.
Well A518 can all A418 on S808 can & probably a little more in time when drivers support all capabilities along with games/emus. Then that is settled its enough for you & it is a pleasurable experience to play on such a large display.
Best regards.