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After a lot of searching this forum there is a general concensus that Malware (Virus etc) software is not warranted due to low risk and potential to slow the device.
Today there is an article in Australian IT section see here:
theaustralian.com.au/australian-it/hackers-target-smartphones/story-e6frgakx-1225831475552
(Sorry - new user, can't post URL so put in the www yourself !)
In summary, at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona, claims are ebing made that "Smartphones are under a growing menace from cyber-criminals seeking to hack into web-connected handsets, but the mobile industry has contained the threat so far" and "We expect that in mobiles it will take much less time," he said. "This year and next year we expect to see the industrialisation of smartphone malware."
"Kaspersky Lab has detected an average of 30 mobile viruses per month over the past year, and believes that a wave of financial assaults are just around the corner"...It took more than 20 years for computer viruses to become a money-making industry, Kaspersky said.
"We expect that in mobiles it will take much less time," he said. "This year and next year we expect to see the industrialisation of smartphone malware."
I am curious as to whether the general concensus still remains that as long as devices are backed up frequently no further action is required ?
I am not a frequent web user, all emails are through a very well protected schange server, I am a frequent user of Wi-Fi.
Any comments on these claims from Barcelona ?
Isn't that's what's known as marketing ?
Sounds like it to me
Could well be marketing. I am an old fart and remember the when AIDS first appeared, people saying it was all marketing by some companies advocating safe sex !!!!
Marketing or fact ?? That's why I posted, I respect the opinion of this forum !
Honestly unless you are computer/phone illiterate or downloading some pirated software the chances of getting any sort of virus is so slim. I honestly wouldn't worry about it. I'll follow it up with a great story:
My friends uncle bought McAfee sub for a year. Got some bad trojan etc. McAfee could not detect for the life of it. AVG Free picked up half of the files. Safe mode malwarebytes scan cleaned out the rest. So a $80 solution ended up working worse than 2 free programs. Its all a scam.
This is more Swine Flu than AIDS
Invented to sell the cure
burtonsnow8 said:
My friends uncle bought McAfee sub for a year. Got some bad trojan etc. McAfee could not detect for the life of it. AVG Free picked up half of the files. Safe mode malwarebytes scan cleaned out the rest. So a $80 solution ended up working worse than 2 free programs. Its all a scam.
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Yeah, McAfee is useless crap, I've had more computers running McAfee get infected than any other antivirus.
OP: IMO, at least on Windows Mobile, viruses aren't really a big deal at all. See, the first interesting thing is that Windows Mobile has a very low marketshare in the smartphone world, so like OS X and Linux in the personal computer market, viruses aren't really practical and aren't really made for anything other than concepts. Secondly, one can always hard reset in the worst possible situation of the phone getting infected. So it's not really a big deal at the moment. Maybe in the future, things will be different, but right now it's nothing to lose sleep over.
Agreed, apart from the WM market share thing. Yes WM has a fairly small market share, which is shrinking, but the reason why viruses are written for Windows is because of Microsoft. Microsoft have managed to make lots of enemies with their anti-competitive business strategies and general antisocial behavior.
Viruses aren't written for Linux because virus writers don't want to hurt their own.
OS10 has a small market share but I can't help thinking with the way they're going, locking down and restricting access in a very similar way Microsoft did in the past, they could be the next target. iPhone hackers are already a long way ahead of Apple and are apparently running Linux on it lol
dik23 said:
Agreed, apart from the WM market share thing. Yes WM has a fairly small market share, which is shrinking, but the reason why viruses are written for Windows is because of Microsoft. Microsoft have managed to make lots of enemies with their anti-competitive business strategies and general antisocial behavior.
Viruses aren't written for Linux because virus writers don't want to hurt their own.
OS10 has a small market share but I can't help thinking with the way they're going, locking down and restricting access in a very similar way Microsoft did in the past, they could be the next target. iPhone hackers are already a long way ahead of Apple and are apparently running Linux on it lol
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I have to disagree with you. Certainly many of viruses were written for that reason in the 80's and 90's, but viruses are now just a business for the vast majority of malware writers. It's actually quite a profitable business at that.
Microsoft Windows has an incredible market share, with over a billion machines running Windows. Windows also has plenty of old code and vulnerable security holes, meaning it's a prime target for malware. Windows didn't even have and equivalent for sudo until Windows Vista in 2006, so that shows you how little security has been considered when building the OS. If I wanted to create a massive botnet or harvest millions of users' personal information, I'd pick the OS with the largest marketshare and most poorly implemented security, which happens to be Windows. Plus, while many of the people on this site run Windows and are also technically savvy, most people in the real world aren't. They don't update Windows with patches, they don't run an up to date antivirus, and they don't know the difference between a rogue antivirus like Antivirus 2010 and a legitimate one like Kaspersky. Therefore, it's an easy target.
Now tell me, if you wanted to create a giant botnet to attack government sites, send millions of spam emails, and rent out to malicious individuals, which OS would you choose to target?
Would you choose OS X with 4.5% market share (acc. to Wikipedia), desktop Linux with 1-2% market share (acc. to Wikipedia) or Microsoft Windows with 91% market share (acc. to Wikipedia)? Keep in mind that your code isn't cross platform, meaning that for infected computers to infect other computers, they must be running the same OS (OS X to OS X, Windows to Windows, or Linux to Linux). Don't forget that the *nix and BSD based systems, including OS X, were also designed with security and multiple users in mind, while Windows was originally a single user OS whose sole user ran at the equivalent of root, which means it's a lot more work to write something for Linux/Mac, especially when desktop Linux is still quite fragmented with different competing components with similar functions. Also, you want to make tons of money off this, so your personal feelings towards an OS or its parent company don't really apply very much. Off that list, I bet you chose Windows as the logical choice, right? If you did, then you just had the same train of thought that many malware authors have probably had at some point, and you came to the same logical conclusion.
Maybe a few viruses are still written by people out of hate for Microsoft, but it's just naive to think that hate for Microsoft is the main reason. And the part about malware writers not wanting to hurt "their own" by leaving Linux alone also isn't really viable either, the truth is it's just not practical at this point, and the majority of Linux users are savvy enough to know what they shouldn't click...
Good point !
Having never inflicted myself with Vista I wouldn't know it had a root account. I am amazed that even with a superuser it can still have so many holes. I only use Windows for gaming, as clever as WINE is it really can't do it yet, and XP still wins there
Give me a break...
Charlie Kindel
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsphone/archive/2010/03/18/know-your-audience.aspx
Wow, MIX10 rocked. I’ve lost my voice which made it pretty hard to do a podcast interview this morning; I’m glad I had the morse code app someone coded up at MIX for Windows Phone 7 Series using the tools we made available there!
If you didn’t get a chance to see the day 1 keynote for the conference you missed an amazing presentation of not only the Windows Phone 7 Series user experience & developer experience but a bunch of amazing 3rd party app demos as well. You can watching it online here.
I had a great time talking with developers and designers about the new development platform at MIX. You’d be amazed how much planning went into delivering these keynotes, demos and sessions. I’ve been doing these shows for years, and the first thing I was taught was to know your audience. For me MIX has been all about exciting developers and designers, but I appreciate that there are people watching online or reading press articles who see things through a different lens. With that in mind, I’d like to clarify a few things.
I’ve talked at length on my developer focused blog and in other forums about our commitment to designing a platform that prioritizes end user experience. Creating and then preserving an incredible customer experience is priority one for Windows Phone 7 Series. We make this point in every session. To illustrate the point we often remind developers that the vast majority of phones are purchased at retail, which means the “end user” we are focusing on is often referred to as a “consumer”. This is not to say that phones or Windows Phone 7 Series in particular are less valuable to business or corporate scenarios; it’s simply a comment on purchase behavior.
We are building a phone focused on the end-user. We are building a phone that will be, primarily, purchased by end-users. We know those end-users have busy personal & business lives. We are building a phone that will be GREAT for helping end-users deal with BOTH their personal & business lives.
Windows Phone 7 Series will be a great business phone. We applied the same end user focus to designing the phone’s business capabilities that we did with every other element of the phone. We asked people and even IT administrators what they need from a phone. The answer was consistent. They want a single device that excels at core business functions like email, reading and editing Office documents and collaboration, while also offering rich features and capabilities that help people stay on top of the different parts of their lives, at home and at work.
We expect Windows Phone 7 Series to appeal to people who are active, connected and working, so Exchange & SharePoint integration and the features within the new Office hub are core to the phone’s value. Similarly, we know that people add these phones to corporate networks and that we need to make that process easy for administrators. Interestingly, when we talk to corporate IT staff and business decision makers they ask us to give them a compelling phone that will not only improve productivity, but also appeal to the end user’s “whole life,” as people wish to carry only one Smartphone to meet both business and personal needs. We think Windows Phone 7 Series will do this better than any other phone on the market today. WHICH BUSINESSES ARE YOU TALKING TO!?!?!?!?!?!
For us, it’s not a matter of “consumer” OR “corporate.” We view our target customer as the kind of person who is looking to technology as a helper in their lives, and we find this kind of person in small businesses, all the way to the largest corporations. Whichever end of the spectrum they are in, we are building a phone that works for them, in their environment.
So when we tell developers and designers that we’ve built a platform for consumers / end users / people, we simply mean that experience is the high order bit – not quantity of features, range of form factors or anything else.
How we tell our story may vary by audience or event, but our singular focus on creating and preserving a great experience for the people who carry a Windows Phone is consistent.
Cheers,
Charlie Kindel
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This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
Like those "typical" households they used to test Vista...facepalm.
rorytmeadows said:
This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
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I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft's actions with WP7S -- I definitely am not, and am outspoken about my views regarding WP7s -- but the article said they talked with IT staff and management.
I work in IT, and there's a big difference between us and the management. People at the business use company PCs on the company network to go on Facebook and a variety of other personal sites. People use their company-issued BBs to do personal things.
As IT staff members, we don't care. It's business management that cares. My boss -- manager in charge of technical services -- just shrugs off the Facebook network traffic -- it's not his problem, he just keeps the network running.
Modern IT staffs -- in general -- are very liberal. It's the business management that cracks down on stuff like that.
Also, while management may be deep-rooted in a control, all work no fun philosophy, whether they like it or not, they're waking up to the fact that this generation of worker likes to be liberated. It's being pushed to them by speakers and writers and pundits everywhere.
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
Micro$oft = Apple in disguise. They are following Apple to get the BIG BUCKS now.
hidden_hunter said:
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
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Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Yep pretty much, if the work's being done you could sit on facebook all day as far as my boss is concerned
hidden_hunter said:
Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
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As someone that was fired from a job because of LiveJournal content, I don't think I can agree with that statement.
rorytmeadows said:
Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
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As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
rorytmeadows said:
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
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Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
Spike15 said:
As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
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Well, I understand where you're coming from and I can definitely see that productivity would work with that kind of management there. But in a lot of companies, like mine, your workforce isn't bright enough to respond in that manner. I am a therapist at a day program that employs high school graduates (some of which who knows how they made it through high school) and thus, it's a battle to get the work done. They can be gotten rid of, but then replaced by a workforce of the same caliber. Such is my field. Then because of that dominate culture, the "laziness" rubs off on the educated some that also share the space. I don't want any of them on their Facebook accounts at work.
Most of the companies in this country are full of a workforce that can't spell the word workforce. You're entrusting them to these same philosophies of management? You don't have very good odds doing so.
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
rorytmeadows said:
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
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I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
Spike15 said:
I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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I agree completely. You cannot get the poweruser features that IT specs and nerdy hobbiests like me without buying some application, or at least hacking the phone. You don't have to hack Windows 7 to browse the files or edit the registry. It's part of the OS, as expected.
Spike15:
Well said! I agree 100%.
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
Spike15 said:
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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Click to collapse
gogol said:
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
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Well, I guess a slate phone is the answer.
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
eaglesteve said:
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
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Because, even jailbroken, it still doesn't have SD card, removable battery, customization is poor, no hardware keyboard, not enough serious apps (lots of iFart, iBoobs i****...) etc.
gogol said:
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
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Last chart I saw suggested that apple market share has been stuck at 25% for the last 3 months. I'm hoping that's not a one time occurrence, and is rather part of a trend. RIM is at 50%+ and increased a 1-2% during the same time (was expected to fall). Android moved up 5%, WinMo down 3-4%, Palm down 1-2%.
I'm hoping this is a trend so we get away from this idea that a phone does not need advanced features, and that people realize that devices that force vendor lockin is not a good idea.
I like marketplaces, but I don't like artificial enforcement of the marketplace. It's my device, I want to use it as I please. Generally, Freedom = good, artificial restriction = bad.
You can put a nice user-friendly candy-coated UI on something without ripping out the advanced features.
As for wp7, I am liking it better than the iphone experience, I don't think MS will prove to be as restrictive as Apple, so I hope it does well. However, I'm still undecided about what my next OS will be.
But I hope the market starts to swing more open and tech oriented with intuitive UIs on top of powerful open devices. And I hope this makes Microsoft open up their policies a bit as a result.
Ok now... we all have heard whats bad, or not so good or what can be improved with WP7.
But on the other hand anyone has good news for all of us to contiune with windows and not jump ship to android or iPhone. At the moment I dont see the why I would want to buy an WP7 yet! maybe in few years when it matures as an OS.
Windows phone 7 gives you a lot of choice in hardware devices, unlike the iPhone, unless you don't mind being stuck with one manufacture (see how that turned bad with the iPhone 4 reception issue). I think this is a big point especially for people who like physical keyboards and different shapes or colours.
Now you are thinking "Android offers a wide range of hardware as well, so what is the difference?" One thing if find bad about the Android ecosystem is OS fragmentation. I know being open source is a big plus, but in this case it backfired because anyone can put the OS on any device, so we ended up with a lot of devices not getting upgraded by their OEMs/carriers rather than let Google handle updating devices.
Microsoft is tackling this problem by putting minimum device requirements so that any update Microsoft releases, it can be easily pushed to all kinds of devices.
So overall, I think Microsoft is approching this market in a balanced manner, they are not extermly closed (think Apple) nor very open (Google). Which is a good thing for developers and end users.
There are a lot of other things, like Windows Live and Xbox integration (if you care about those).
From a developer point of view, it's also the most attractive mobile platform that ever been made. It's amazingly easy to make complex apps and games, and it's a standard way of doing it, opposed to iPhone and Android's "lets reinvent the wheel" technologies.
Plus, it's the only phone development environment that have a visual editor (Expression Blend), which is a big plus for rapid development.
(Not to mention, you don't have to buy a Mac to code for it!)
From a consumer point of view, it's a strong phone, works with all existing services, specially all Microsoft ones, but also all the others. It'll be the first phone with Windows Live Messenger available on, and Zune integration.
Basically you get all the power of Microsofts platforms, in a single device, without the limitations of Apple. Everybody who's used to using Windows will get a greater experience with this phone, than any other phone on the market.
So it's a win/win/win, situation
I'm getting one just for the fact it has Zune on it, this alone makes it worthy of a purchase if you use multimedia heavily.
Also I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the things the OP consider "bad" is what the majority considers "good"
Windcape said:
So it's a win/win/win, situation
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha.
Good points.
The biggest thing is the UI. Frankly put; it's innovative, attractive, intuitive, and just works really well. When you get your hands on one and play around with it for a few minutes you'll see.
I'm stoked about Window Phone 7. I know if won't have as much freedom out the door as Windows 6.5 but I've seen the demo's and from what I can see it looks great. Here's my top 10 good list:
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
2. Finger Friendly
3. Sharp modern UI
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
5. Good minimum requirements
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
8. Great Social networking integration
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
10. Great use of Office on mobile.
What draws me to WP7 is really metro. I've tinkered a lot with windows phones over the years leveraging different UIs, skins, themes, etc. But really my favorite UI for my phone thus far has been titanium. I prefer the typography. Being that wp7 is a titanium enhancement, it suites me very well.
darkmurder said:
I'm getting one just for the fact it has Zune on it, this alone makes it worthy of a purchase if you use multimedia heavily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should be able to use Zune with any windows phone. I have zune pass and use my omnia II to play the drm music, so you don't have to wait for wp7 to have a "zune" phone.
WTB Zune Pass in Europe already!
Windcape said:
WTB Zune Pass in Europe already!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's great, my only compliant is that you have to backup your mp3s if you purchase them or when you use your credits. It doesn't let you redownload them, probably because of some legal nonsense.
It's not too bad with 25GB from Skydrive, and using the Gladinet client to map your cloud drive to a physical drive.
let's stop being "real" and start being realistic
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
as a faithful user of the most advanced pocketpc ever built ever since it launched (htc universal or jasjar) I'll just reply to those "strengths"
First ond foremost, the windows mobile had its success because users were able to hack it and expand it BEYOND of what they payed for. if we limited ourselves to what M$ provided, this site wouldn't exist and the HTC would have gone bankrupt.
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
You have Xbox and yet you are going to be playing on a phone?
2. Finger Friendly
in addition to every single SW company having developed the touch finger application keyboard, there are devices with their own keyboards, which actually work MUCH better then the touch mode ever will because you can feel the keys and you're able to predict where the next one is, at least until they invent the physically morphing touch screen.
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded. SPB mobile shell for instance gave the smooth design and modern hi-tech look to 6.1 phones. their only limitation was the processor and the memory. but that's how the digital revolution started - microsoft made ever more demanding OSes and Intel made processors to match. If you start spinning in circles around an antiquated graphics and limited applications, why would they innovate?
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
apps that cannot be made by anyone else without a license by microsoft. and no one is using microsoft products on their pocketpc's because they are inefficient, large and expensive.
5. Good minimum requirements
nokia's s40 phones require even less resources, and offer greater UI, usability and stability. and they are as customizeable as the win 7, and yet people don't seriously consider using them as a PDA capable to integrate with the market's dominant and upcoming applications.
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
We'll see...
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER! PERIOD! it's function is to play music! what everything?
8. Great Social networking integration
if you're referring to that travesty of facebook integration, I used the Windows Live Messenger Beta and let me tell you how it works: the system makes assumptions that videos and most popular items demand our attention, and they are in big, while the rest is small, so it's not about keeping track of your friends, it's about flashing content to a moron public.
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
Will we be able to activesync our device over the wi-fi or via internet??
10. Great use of Office on mobile.
I would gladly pay good money to see a microsoft developer use a touch-only phone to create and modify a corporate-standard excel or even word file...
Dude you are in the wrong thread.
This is where you should post -> WP7 is complete FAIL
vk2000 said:
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Take of your foilhat.
vk2000 said:
I have a vague feeling that people on this topic are working for the Microsoft development team...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not, but I'll apply for a position in 2 years time when I'm finished with my second bachelor.
vk2000 said:
if we limited ourselves to what M$ provided, this site wouldn't exist
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny, I thought that Windows Mobile development was the original topic of xda-developers. It's not like the name itself says so, no no.
vk2000 said:
1. Actual Xbox Live integration with achievements
You have Xbox and yet you are going to be playing on a phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Welcome to 2010.
vk2000 said:
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded. SPB mobile shell for instance gave the smooth design and modern hi-tech look to 6.1 phones. their only limitation was the processor and the memory. but that's how the digital revolution started - microsoft made ever more demanding OSes and Intel made processors to match. If you start spinning in circles around an antiquated graphics and limited applications, why would they innovate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see you have zero experience in usability or design. Go read some Jakob Nielsen, and come back when you find yourself in a suitable position to discuss usability design on phones.
vk2000 said:
4. Hubs that bring in a multitude of information that covers the work of many apps, but all in one place.
apps that cannot be made by anyone else without a license by microsoft. and no one is using microsoft products on their pocketpc's because they are inefficient, large and expensive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Clearly you been living in a cave for the last five years. The developer license also grants you the ability to host your applications on the marketplace, and is common practice for all mobile developers. Even Google have it for Android.
vk2000 said:
5. Good minimum requirements
nokia's s40 phones r equire even less resources, and offer greater UI, usability and stability. and they are as customizeable as the win 7, and yet people don't seriously consider using them as a PDA capable to integrate with the market's dominant and upcoming applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See again you completely misunderstood what the customers want. And the minimum requirements is so you don't get ****ty phones like all Android devices from 2009 / early 2010.
vk2000 said:
6. Easy and well thought out development tools.
We'll see...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, we already seen. Visual Studio and Expression Blend goes years back, and is popular and known development tools. Microsoft have the largest developer community on earth (MSDN), and they are so far the only who managed to actually create so much community around their technology and tools. Even the Linux community can't follow here.
And most of the developers in MSDN are professionals, so it's used for solving real-life problems. And if you're a consumer, and not a developer, you won't understand the importance of this.
Also XNA available on WP7 means it's the first phone with a gaming framework available from day one.
vk2000 said:
7. Everything about Zune all in one Hub.
Zune is a MUSIC PLAYER! PERIOD! it's function is to play music! what everything?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, Zune is a online music-service, a desktop music player ,and a music-player device. And in WP7, the online service and desktop client will work along with the phone. A lot of us like to use our smartphones for music, for example, while biking to work or studies.
vk2000 said:
8. Great Social networking integration
if you're referring to that travesty of facebook integration, I used the Windows Live Messenger Beta and let me tell you how it works: the system makes assumptions that videos and most popular items demand our attention, and they are in big, while the rest is small, so it's not about keeping track of your friends, it's about flashing content to a moron public.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft don't make assumptions, they got detailed statistics over the functionality people use in Windows Live Messenger. Just because you don't behave like the other 300 million users, doesn't make it wrong.
It's designed for the average consumer, and they done a very good job with that. More consumers = more people to buy our apps = more money for us.
vk2000 said:
9. Multiple exchange accounts, emails and calendars.
Will we be able to activesync our device over the wi-fi or via internet??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both
vk2000 said:
10. Great use of Office on mobile.
I would gladly pay good money to see a microsoft developer use a touch-only phone to create and modify a corporate-standard excel or even word file...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Phones are less meant for modify, as for accessing the information in the said data.
It's handy if you're on the road, and want to pull out some data to compare with people you're discussing with or similar.
vk2000
3. Sharp modern UI
simplistic doesn't mean modern....ever! there is a FLAT SQUARE and Arial TEXT on it...that's a post-it for retarded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You nail that one!
Actually the font is Segoe WP. And the flat squares will be replaced with images and partially display icons among others.
Which makes it even better than just a bunch of techno-color icons.
clearly you guys are either very young or like to suck up to your (hoped) employer a lot
quoting the only author you know, doesn't make you smart, it makes you a charlatan. you should find a good dictionary if you don't know what that word is, since you clearly don't understand what I am saying anyway.
If you're going to play games on something small, you should buy a PSP
and
I've been following the IT development ever since I was 8 and computers ran on Windows 3.11
I don't require a degree in design to state clearly as a user who is going to pay 300-1000 euros, that a PDA should be
1) USABLE
2) reliable
3) USABLE
4) customizable and upgradeable
the fact that people are buying does not mean that the product is good, they're either poised with offensive marketing, like apple does, or they don't have any better choice! Statistics are meaningless more often then not, and you would know their significance if you studied statistics, 4 different types of sociology, macroeconomics and international financial relations, on your way to your M.Sc., like I did
games on the phone existed since Sun decided to make Java for mobile markets, so... a decade of "nothing new" to you . if windows 7 was able to reach the sophistication of the mobile gaming consoles, it would have been something, otherwise it's a child's toy, not suitable for business!
given you know nothing about the mobile market before you learned to talk and talk-back, I'm not surprised you would be satisfied even with yet another shade of "solitaire"
and as for my design capabilities, my photographic portfolio and web-design are always a winner what do you got to offer besides a big tongue and lack of arguments?
Windcape said:
Actually the font is Segoe WP. And the flat squares will be replaced with images and partially display icons among others.
Which makes it even better than just a bunch of techno-color icons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we went from 3d transparent and interactive icons BACK to a SQUARE 1, junior...
you should familiarize yourself with the hard work of so many people on this forum who are trying to change the OS from "default to outstanding" for free and for the benefit of everyone
So you think your personal preferences makes up for the 300 million target users that Microsoft have in the Windows Live and Zune cloud?
You think you can invalidate a business-model just because someone done something similar before? You think the phone sucks because you don't like it, even you haven't got the slightest idea how it works, how to develop for it or how to sell applications for it (or for phones in general).
From a consumer, business and software-engineering point of view, WP7 is damn near perfect.
So how about you let us know how old you actually are, and what you actually study, if you absolutely want to include personal attacks in your qq'ing.
vk2000 said:
we went from 3d transparent and interactive icons BACK to a SQUARE 1, junior...
you should familiarize yourself with the hard work of so many people on this forum who are trying to change the OS from "default to outstanding" for free and for the benefit of everyone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And do you have any idea why they did this? Have you ever read a usability study of a smartphone? Have you ever done a usability study of any device, or interface at all?
Or could it be that the professionals know more than you do.
Today at my University we had a marquee out the front near the main car park talking about Microsoft Graduates and inside they were showing of Microsoft Surface, Kinect and Windows Phone 7.
It wasn't hard to get a glance, especially considering everyone was mostly interested in the Kinect, I had a play with the Windows Phone 7 handset.
To be honest, I was expecting more, I was really disappointed, there is nothing that it can offer except for flashy transitions and pretty colours. Yes its true that applications will be released to improve the phone's functionality but there is definitely a limit to that because of the current API.
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users.
Does anyone know how WP7 handles notifications? Is it similar to iOS? I hope not. Android nailed it with their notification system, I wish Windows Mobile had something similar.
The menu in which you 'upload to facebook', is it limited? Can developers add functionality to this menu, will you ever see 'post on twitter' or anything like that?
On a positive note, WP7 is smooth, looks great and Internet Explorer is a whole new browser.
(Side note: University of Surrey is broadcasting the Microsoft PDC10 live on Thursday this week and one lucky attendee will win a WP7 Handset)
WP7 notifications are kinda a cross between Android and iPhone. The biggest downside to WP7 notifications is that once it goes away, you can't see it in a list or anything.
Re: "WP7 has a long way to go until it grabs those hardcore WM5/6 users." - I don't think Microsoft has any intention on every going after the "hardcore WM5/6 users." If you're expecting WM6 levels of customizability and openness, switch to Android.
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
AceofSpades25 said:
If they're there tomorrow, challenge them on the lack of file system management
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
RustyGrom said:
lol because some random Microsoft PR person is to blame for the engineering, design, and management decision to leave out a file manager.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
AceofSpades25 said:
lol... fair point, but there is a small chance they may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell their manager, who may just tell Steve Balmer.
To be honest, we wouldn't have this frustration if Microsoft just had some forum where they would take developers input seriously
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
RustyGrom said:
If you have legit developer feedback, you can post it on the forums at create.msdn.com. However, complaining about a lack of open file system support will pretty much fall on deaf ears as it's pretty much a done decision. The most we can expect to see in the future is some sort of a shared folder. Isolated storage is here to stay.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Nah it's pretty much awesome
I also used WP7 the first time today - and it's AWESOME!!!
Don't listen to this guy (no offense )
I think everyone here saw the videos of Walkthroughs etc, so I don't know how you can get disappointed by using it.
It's exactly what you saw, just quadrippel times more awesome, cause you actually see it for real and touch it yourself
A Vodafone store had a LG Optimus 7 and I played with it for half an hour.
I just can't wait till the Omnia 7 finally arrives here in Germany. I'll definitly buy that and hopefully be happy with it
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
gmatharu12 said:
No offence taken, but its not what I'd call awesome.
Thanks everyone for their responses, as for your advice for using Android (RustyGrom), I really want to start using it as a full time OS and probably when my contract ends very shortly, Android will probably be the way to go because I don't see WP7 adding its short-list of lacking features anytime soon.
Does that also mean, perhaps if you modified an image in one program, you couldn't edit it from another? Does each application really have its own restricted space?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, each application has its own restricted space. The only exception to this rule are images and videos (I think).
I know all your images are kept in one common place, and apps can use a hook they've provided in the api to load images from this place.
Any other app you can think of that would require side loading of files, would not work.
AceofSpades25 said:
Well, all it needs is a shared folder. A sand boxed area (excluded from the OS and application files) where a user can manage their files, and third party apps can access those managed files if required.
I've made this suggestion. I still seem to get largely ignored. I get the impression that Microsoft developers are too afraid to think outside the box. They all seem to agree with each other all the time as if they have either been brainwashed or they're just afraid they'll loose their jobs if they speak up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would encourage both sloppy app development and content piracy.
Are YOU a developer?
A platform that indirectly encourages piracy doesn't get first-class support from the industry. Only exception is Windows Mobile, and only because it is compatible with the DRM in e.g. Zune Pass music.
Looks lile so,e people don't take piracy serious enough. It's a huge problem, amd a few users crying about design decisions aided to combat it in a forum are pretty much worth doing it.
Lime Wire was just shut down by a court. The media industry does not play around, and neither does the law.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
What a HUGE disappointment for a UI
Ok, so panes slide around. SO WHAT? The thing as I have seen it in videos looks like a PIECE OF JUNK. Just look at the picture of mine... How can you compare that or any of our WM6.5 phones on this forum to a BLAH screen that has three cubes on it? YECH. Is this is the way they leave it, I think that will be the end of WM. Just wait another year and there will be so few buyers of the WM7 phones they will be discontinued.
gmatharu12 said:
I currently use a HD2 (and I have tried Android on it too) and I don't think anything can quite compete with Windows Mobile 6.5 (or a Jail-broken iPhone - which despite being a huge Apple hater jail-broken iPhones have fantastic functionality).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol exactly
ajftl said:
U got to be kidding me ... lol when i had the hd2 running windows 6.5 i wanted to kill myself...no way u comparing wp7 with crappy w 6.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh yeah?! So try to copy internet link and send it to your friend by sms.
Retard.
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting
lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.
Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.
well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?
Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.
emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
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Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
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I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
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Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
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Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.
FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
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mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
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MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.
vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
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Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.