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Give me a break...
Charlie Kindel
http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windowsphone/archive/2010/03/18/know-your-audience.aspx
Wow, MIX10 rocked. I’ve lost my voice which made it pretty hard to do a podcast interview this morning; I’m glad I had the morse code app someone coded up at MIX for Windows Phone 7 Series using the tools we made available there!
If you didn’t get a chance to see the day 1 keynote for the conference you missed an amazing presentation of not only the Windows Phone 7 Series user experience & developer experience but a bunch of amazing 3rd party app demos as well. You can watching it online here.
I had a great time talking with developers and designers about the new development platform at MIX. You’d be amazed how much planning went into delivering these keynotes, demos and sessions. I’ve been doing these shows for years, and the first thing I was taught was to know your audience. For me MIX has been all about exciting developers and designers, but I appreciate that there are people watching online or reading press articles who see things through a different lens. With that in mind, I’d like to clarify a few things.
I’ve talked at length on my developer focused blog and in other forums about our commitment to designing a platform that prioritizes end user experience. Creating and then preserving an incredible customer experience is priority one for Windows Phone 7 Series. We make this point in every session. To illustrate the point we often remind developers that the vast majority of phones are purchased at retail, which means the “end user” we are focusing on is often referred to as a “consumer”. This is not to say that phones or Windows Phone 7 Series in particular are less valuable to business or corporate scenarios; it’s simply a comment on purchase behavior.
We are building a phone focused on the end-user. We are building a phone that will be, primarily, purchased by end-users. We know those end-users have busy personal & business lives. We are building a phone that will be GREAT for helping end-users deal with BOTH their personal & business lives.
Windows Phone 7 Series will be a great business phone. We applied the same end user focus to designing the phone’s business capabilities that we did with every other element of the phone. We asked people and even IT administrators what they need from a phone. The answer was consistent. They want a single device that excels at core business functions like email, reading and editing Office documents and collaboration, while also offering rich features and capabilities that help people stay on top of the different parts of their lives, at home and at work.
We expect Windows Phone 7 Series to appeal to people who are active, connected and working, so Exchange & SharePoint integration and the features within the new Office hub are core to the phone’s value. Similarly, we know that people add these phones to corporate networks and that we need to make that process easy for administrators. Interestingly, when we talk to corporate IT staff and business decision makers they ask us to give them a compelling phone that will not only improve productivity, but also appeal to the end user’s “whole life,” as people wish to carry only one Smartphone to meet both business and personal needs. We think Windows Phone 7 Series will do this better than any other phone on the market today. WHICH BUSINESSES ARE YOU TALKING TO!?!?!?!?!?!
For us, it’s not a matter of “consumer” OR “corporate.” We view our target customer as the kind of person who is looking to technology as a helper in their lives, and we find this kind of person in small businesses, all the way to the largest corporations. Whichever end of the spectrum they are in, we are building a phone that works for them, in their environment.
So when we tell developers and designers that we’ve built a platform for consumers / end users / people, we simply mean that experience is the high order bit – not quantity of features, range of form factors or anything else.
How we tell our story may vary by audience or event, but our singular focus on creating and preserving a great experience for the people who carry a Windows Phone is consistent.
Cheers,
Charlie Kindel
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This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
Like those "typical" households they used to test Vista...facepalm.
rorytmeadows said:
This is dumb. I'm sorry, but perhaps you should have talked with some real businesses instead of the fa*gy ones in Silicon Valley. My boss isn't okay with my going on Facebook during work hours. My company also doesn't want my personal phone accessing my company's exchange server. Perhaps Microsoft should have talked with some REAL businesses rather than progressive ones run by overgrown teens.
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I don't mean to sound like I'm defending Microsoft's actions with WP7S -- I definitely am not, and am outspoken about my views regarding WP7s -- but the article said they talked with IT staff and management.
I work in IT, and there's a big difference between us and the management. People at the business use company PCs on the company network to go on Facebook and a variety of other personal sites. People use their company-issued BBs to do personal things.
As IT staff members, we don't care. It's business management that cares. My boss -- manager in charge of technical services -- just shrugs off the Facebook network traffic -- it's not his problem, he just keeps the network running.
Modern IT staffs -- in general -- are very liberal. It's the business management that cracks down on stuff like that.
Also, while management may be deep-rooted in a control, all work no fun philosophy, whether they like it or not, they're waking up to the fact that this generation of worker likes to be liberated. It's being pushed to them by speakers and writers and pundits everywhere.
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
Micro$oft = Apple in disguise. They are following Apple to get the BIG BUCKS now.
hidden_hunter said:
I work in IT management in a large government department and that's the trend that we are working towards, we understand there is very little we can do to STOP people trying to use these types of services but if we can have appropriate policies and guidelines in place we at least have some control.
Work-Life balance is a big thing that some employers are trying to push, so there is definately merit to the idea.
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Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
rorytmeadows said:
Hmm this is interesting. I'm not sure why it's becoming acceptable to check your Facebook messages while at work. Or at least why would people be laying back and giving up some bandwith for it. I'm having a hard time why *.facebook.com isn't already added to firewalls.
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Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
Spike15 said:
Employers are realizing that the liberated worker is actually happier and therefore more productive.
The big boss in my IT department is very hands off in this way, he walks by people standing around talking about not-work, looking up webpages that aren't work, et cetera, and doesn't even care.
He hires only skilled workers, gives them basically unlimited freedom, and as long as the jobs get done, he doesn't care.
It pays off too, everyone there is fiercely dedicated to him and their work, and we have exceptional quality and exceptional turn around, because instead of constantly fearing crossing the line, we want to work because we want him to be happy, because he's so good to us that upsetting him would be devastating.
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Yep pretty much, if the work's being done you could sit on facebook all day as far as my boss is concerned
hidden_hunter said:
Because we find that facebook is no less damaging than people standing around talking about football for 30 minutes
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As someone that was fired from a job because of LiveJournal content, I don't think I can agree with that statement.
rorytmeadows said:
Well that sounds promising for many, but honestly, I'd rather stay as far away from that Japanese-culture crap and hippie California sh*t as possible.
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As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
rorytmeadows said:
And then the other question becomes, what if the work ISN'T getting done. I mean this is America, so, most likely it isn't.
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Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
Spike15 said:
As a person who is totally anti-hippie, I can say that it's not "hippie California sh*t [sic]", it's just appealing to human nature.
People who are satisfied with their situation will work harder than people who aren't, and they'll do better work.
It's even gone so far that my immediate superior actually doesn't tell anyone what to do anymore. He just asks you to do it, and because he's such an easygoing dude that's a joy to work for, you do it because the prospect of upsetting him after how good he's been to you is distressing.
It's about people wanting to go to work, wanting to get the work done, and that leading to better output that people who drag themselves to work just for the paycheque.
Sometimes I forget that I'm being paid.
Sometimes I forget to go home on time.
Sometimes I work at home on my free time.
Then you can that worker and find someone who will do the work?
You make it seem as though just because you treat your employees with kindness and respect you can't fire them if they don't perform.
Also: Who's to say "this" is America? I take exception to that -- I wouldn't live in such a terrible country.
In my country our banks have money.
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Well, I understand where you're coming from and I can definitely see that productivity would work with that kind of management there. But in a lot of companies, like mine, your workforce isn't bright enough to respond in that manner. I am a therapist at a day program that employs high school graduates (some of which who knows how they made it through high school) and thus, it's a battle to get the work done. They can be gotten rid of, but then replaced by a workforce of the same caliber. Such is my field. Then because of that dominate culture, the "laziness" rubs off on the educated some that also share the space. I don't want any of them on their Facebook accounts at work.
Most of the companies in this country are full of a workforce that can't spell the word workforce. You're entrusting them to these same philosophies of management? You don't have very good odds doing so.
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
rorytmeadows said:
And if you think that this workforce isn't the target audience, that's incorrect. It's the ineducated that rush out to buy Apple products because of the flashiness and lack of functionality. They may not have the money, but hey, there's always public assistance so they can live in a ****ty house, have 3 kids while making $25k a year, and still go out and buy an expensive phone and TV as long as there is a credit card that can be used.
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I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
Spike15 said:
I don't understand why the fact that the average consumer is the target totally precludes enthusiast features.
THIS IS MICROSOFT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT!
JUST LOOK AT WINDOWS!
I boot up my Windows 7 machine, I see a very clean, very easy-to-use interface.
My 51-year-old mother, who is probably the most computer illiterate person I have ever met, can use Windows 7, she can use Internet Explorer 8, she can use Microsoft Outlook 2007, and does so on a regular basis, without my help.
By the logic of the WP7S designers, it is impossible that this operating system, that these programs, be useable by people like me -- I am an IT professional. I spend my days at work writing scripts, building and maintaining servers and networks et cetera.
But it's not impossible! Microsoft was the company that showed us this by bringing a "complicated" system to 92% of the computer market!
Let's take that clean, easy-to-use interface I get when I boot my computer.
But now I want more power. I can easy hit WIN+R and type "powershell" and hit ENTER to get a terminal window I can use to do basically anything. I can easy go Start ==> Control Panel to get at the guts of the operating system. There are a million ways -- from right-clicking to hitting keyboard shortcuts -- to get to advanced features, that are hidden in plain sight from the average consumer.
Microsoft wanted Windows 7 and Vista to be easier to use, less confusing, more user-friendly, et cetera. Did they take out the things that made the operating system good for enthusiasts and specialists? Things like Active Directory, MMC, Command Prompt, Control Panel, Administrative Tools, et cetera?
No, in fact, the most powerful administrative tool to come out of Redmond since MMC -- PowerShell -- was added as a default in Windows 7!
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
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Click to collapse
I agree completely. You cannot get the poweruser features that IT specs and nerdy hobbiests like me without buying some application, or at least hacking the phone. You don't have to hack Windows 7 to browse the files or edit the registry. It's part of the OS, as expected.
Spike15:
Well said! I agree 100%.
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
Spike15 said:
I literally cannot believe this is the same company that brought us the likes of Windows. They're the company that took DOS and built Windows, with all the functionality except now useable by a broader audience, and throughout their history they've continued to do that, adding more advanced features to every product while simultaneously making it easier to use, and not just for the average user! Their software targeted at experts becomes easier and easier to use too!
Windows Phone 7 Series is a failure, and betrays everything I respected and thought I knew about my favourite company.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
gogol said:
Agreed,
But too bad .. Microsoft does not see it like that.
This WP7S, according them, it is a brand new line of product.
We should not relate it with Windows desktop OS anymore.
Why?
Because Microsoft clearly stated ... "Phone is not a PC".
No matter what, they will stick to that.
Only time will tell, whether WP7S is a failure or not.
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
Oh yes, WP7S is not for power user like us. Because it is different, because it is NOT targeted to use, power user.
They target all those Facebook addicts, all those Xbox players, all those music souls.
But not techies, nor power users, thinkers, tweakers like us.
That's the thing that I regret about WP7S.
I hope the next iteration (WP7.1 or 7.5 or 8.0) will change the situation.
Until then, Android is the answer
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Click to collapse
Well, I guess a slate phone is the answer.
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
eaglesteve said:
Why not a jailbroken iPhone?
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Because, even jailbroken, it still doesn't have SD card, removable battery, customization is poor, no hardware keyboard, not enough serious apps (lots of iFart, iBoobs i****...) etc.
gogol said:
When iPhone was first announced, we all complained it is too restricted (still now). But it is now gaining market rapidly and successful.
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Last chart I saw suggested that apple market share has been stuck at 25% for the last 3 months. I'm hoping that's not a one time occurrence, and is rather part of a trend. RIM is at 50%+ and increased a 1-2% during the same time (was expected to fall). Android moved up 5%, WinMo down 3-4%, Palm down 1-2%.
I'm hoping this is a trend so we get away from this idea that a phone does not need advanced features, and that people realize that devices that force vendor lockin is not a good idea.
I like marketplaces, but I don't like artificial enforcement of the marketplace. It's my device, I want to use it as I please. Generally, Freedom = good, artificial restriction = bad.
You can put a nice user-friendly candy-coated UI on something without ripping out the advanced features.
As for wp7, I am liking it better than the iphone experience, I don't think MS will prove to be as restrictive as Apple, so I hope it does well. However, I'm still undecided about what my next OS will be.
But I hope the market starts to swing more open and tech oriented with intuitive UIs on top of powerful open devices. And I hope this makes Microsoft open up their policies a bit as a result.
Hi there, this post is basically dedicated to current users of windows mobile, who bought their phone because of the virtues an open plattform offers. People like us aren't happy with the direction ms is heading with windows phone 7 and hope that the realize their wrong doing by reimplanting things like multitasking, deep-customization, file-system access, native coding or simply copy, cut and paste.
But why should we buy a windows phone 7 device and hope they transform it to something that resembles wm6 offer time when we could just switch to another plattform?
I mean...
- booth the devices we own and the software we use are not compatible to wp7.
- Android basically got every of the above features wp7 is lagging.
- Android devices are aviable or will be released from every major windows mobile manufacture.
- A lot of software studios will produce for Android.
- Through the ndk Google offers there will probably be more windows mobile software on Android than on windows phone in a year from now.
The only thing wp7 got IMO is the ui, and as we all know from endless debates with the iphone-guys ui is a matter of taste and can be ported...
If you're not a Google or Java hater and Android does what you need... don't hesitate.
Android is good. I'm right now playing with an older Android phone, and although it is very slow (old QCOM processor) and has a small screen, I find the experience to be better than the experience I have with my HD2.
I don't have the slightest doubt anymore that Android is better than iPhone OS or WP7S.
It's smooth.
It has a great, flexible home screen (who needs tiles when you got widgets?).
It has by far the best solution for notifications.
It multitasks.
It has a Marketplace and allows you to side-load apps.
It allows you to access the file system.
It copies and pastes.
It has an NDK.
It is available right now and only getting better.
What you don't get is integration with Microsoft's services, like Windows Live and XBox Live. Of course, there's a good chance that you don't care about them.
I've never used an iPhone but I've dabbled in Android for a while. Mostly, through the Poly port for Kaiser. Here's my views on WM6.5 vs Android.
Windows Mobile GOOD
#1 WM5 sucked. Very unstable, and scrolling speed is very slow. WM6 wasn't much different. WM6.1 become stable, but speed still suffers. WM6.5 very stable, but speed suffers. WM6.5.3 is very stable, and the speed is very fast, including scrolling.
#2 True freedom. You have 3 ways to install applications, and the choice for it to be on the SD card or internal memory. Copy and Paste, and all that jazz.
#3 Customization! Like Mc Donald's says, have it your way.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
#2 Only way to upgrade OS is through custom built roms on XDA-Developers. No support from MS, HTC, and etc.
#3 Majority of applications were written in 2003, and have since been abandoned.
#4 With Phone7 coming soon, developers will completely abandon WM6.5, and move onto Phone 7.
Android GOOD
#1 Based on Linux, which means lots of community support.
#2 Already has an established amount of useful applications.
#3 Very customizable. I've seen some impressive 3D stuff.
#4 You can install applications from the SD card.
#5 Copy and paste exists.
Android BAD
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
#2 Very reliant on a internet connection to do a lot of things.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
#4 Google might try to take away the "Google" experience from rom cookers.
#3 No Offline GPS option for the Nav.
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There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
#1 Applications must be installed into main memory, unless you partition your SD card.
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Not anymore, afaik.
#4 Huge selection of apps.
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That's even more true for Android.
But this is not WM6.5 vs. Android. WM6.5 is doomed, so the time will come when you have to switch.
WP7S is not worth waiting for, it's just an iPhone OS clone. So, in my opinion, there's no reason not to switch now, if you want to.
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
C:Sharp! said:
There's IGO8, Copilot... and some others. Or did I get you wrong?
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I mean the built in Nav software, which the new one is pretty cool. I could use Ndrive, but I really like the built in Nav.
Not anymore, afaik.
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Maybe it's because I'm using a port for the HTC Kaiser. If that's the case, that can be scratched off the list.
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile? You know it's headed in that direction now. There's like 3 or 4 different versions of the OS and the app community isn't doing well. When WP7 gets its footing in the market (iPhone already has), it's going to be really difficult to compete with these. Perhaps Android will be relegated to low-end smartphones
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Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass. Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
Won't happen for various reasons. Windows Mobile was never really taken seriously by Microsoft until now, but Android has Google behind them.
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Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
It's a lot like what happened to Internet Explorer. When Microsoft won the browser war between Netscape, they left it completely alone. Suddenly FireFox, Chrome, Safari, and Opera are kicking it's ass.
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Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
Same thing happened with Windows Mobile. iPhone, and Android appeared and took Microsoft by surprise.
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MS deserved it.
Also, since it's linux based, it can never truly die. The community has it's hands on it now, and they'll never let go. Don't be surprised if we see Linux distros in the Future for many phones. Something like Ubuntu or Slackware could become common to see on cooked phone roms, in a couple of years.
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It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now? Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
iPhone and Windows Phone 7 will still be popular, but does anyone truly believe that phones with so many restrictions will last? I'm sure Microsoft is betting that the Xbox feature will grab people, much like Apple is betting on that their fan base will always grab customers.
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This is smart business. Use your existing successes to build a customer base. All smart companies do this...even Google.
WhyBe said:
Google has one success, that is it's search engine. This does not automatically mean success with other endeavors.
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Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
Nothing is kicking IE's ass. What world are you living in?
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This world.
If you added IE6+IE7+IE8, then you can say it's more popular then FireFox. You have to wonder, if people are still using IE6 then it's most likely they probably don't know about other web browsers, or don't even know what one is. You know the type, logs on twitter, facebook, and myspace and uses AIM to chat to people.
It may not die, per se, but it definitely will never be big. Niche product at best. There's too much confusion in open systems. How many incompatible Android OS'es are out now?
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No more then Windows Mobile will have. We'll soon have legacy Windows Mobile 6.5, and Phone 7. Neither are compatible.
Modern smartphones will win or lose based on their apps. Androids app situation sucks right now.
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Not sure about Windows Phone 7, but iPhone has it horrible right now.
No porn apps
No emulators
No web browsers
No flash support
Android may not have as many pull my finger apps or farting apps as iPhone, but at least we can have all of the above. iPhone and Phone7 owners will be able to have 100 different choices of how to make fart noises from their phone, while I'll be able to view flash websites. While iPhone and Phone7 will enjoy half ass made games for their phones, eventually Android will get a Playstation and N64 emulator. I consider any Genesis or SNES game to be far superior then any 3D accelerated game they can put on those phones as is.
The biggest blunder from Apple was them pulling the porn apps. Everyone knows the internet and DVDs became popular due to porn. Enforcing that rule is sure suicide, despite the horrible image of me walking into a public bathroom and finding someone wacking off to porn on their Android phone.
When Mozilla ports FireFox to Android, I'll be able to use ABP and NoScript to have a truly secure surfing experience. While IE on Phone7 fails horribly on the Acid3 test. As it is IE9 gets a 55/100 on Acid3.
Just from what I've mentioned I say there's plenty of incentive to go with an open OS. Jail break your iPhone or **** break your Phone7, but you'll be in this endless battle between Microsoft or Apple.
Dukenukemx said:
Gmail
Google Map
Chrome Web Broswer
Google voice
YouTube
All this is offered for free.
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Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
I love WM 6.5.3 and right now my phone (TD2) is just perfect the way it is. And if someday I want something to change then I can just flash a new ROM, install a cab or write another tool on my own.
I hate Android because your applications are running in a Java VM and you can't access the OS kernel functions like you can with WM.
Though yesterday I just for fun run Android on a Touch Diamond. I have to admit the UI is really nice done, even though it isn't THAT MUCH different compared to the user experience you get with 6.5.3. Some window animations here and there and I love it like you can pull down the taskbar and I like the multiple homescreen thing. Though I couldn't do a lot of things with it because for most things it needed a data connection (I didn't plug in a SIM card) and USB/WiFi didn't work. Also it asked me to sign up for Google account all the time. On 6.5.3 on the other hand some things are quite better implemented, for example start menu or Sense. I also like it that you can reach all functions through your touch screen. On Android you're always forced to use the hard keys to close a window or get out of an app. After all I wonder if it's possible to hack into the taskbar or bottom bar like I do on WM but due to Java VM environment I doubt you can do that.
After all, right now there's no reason why I should switch to Android. However I don't know what the situation will be in the next 1-2 years. So in the end all I can say: On the longer run it might be the only OS able to replace 6.5.3 in the future but right now it's just too limited for my taste (in other words I can also say it doesn't give me enough features to forget about some limits). But I definitely keep an eye on it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
YouTube they bought for a ridiculous amount of money, and it's a cash disposer. Yeah, we all enjoy it, no doubt about it. The more we enjoy it the more money Google coughs out on it. Windows Mobile is a bigger success than this.
Google Maps? You forgot Gmail. Some 90%+ of Google's income comes from its home page. Not even Adsense, which ads a few percentage points. So no, Google hasn't had a single success in any area apart from search, even though they've been trying to diversify like crazy because they are really scared of what may happen if they lose their search engine domination. The problem is, by doing all this free stuff everywhere about the only thing they achieve is that they technically cannot "fail". Sure, you don't set revenue targets, you just burn cash, what's a failure?
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+100
Thanks Vangrieg, you beat me to it
vangrieg said:
Chrome Web Browser? A success? You must be kidding me. No, I'm not saying it's a bad product. But can you imagine how much money a promo campaign like Google did for Chrome, would cost a third party? So you spend billions of dollars (even though "virtual" in this case) and get absolutely laughable market share. Success?
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It is success, even though the way to reach it is.... strange!?
But are Microsoft doing any better? They're just buying off companies if they need a new feature.
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
vangrieg said:
.. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free ...
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xda-developers provide a lot of free stuff, are they losers too? I don't think so
XDA is not a business, we're here for fun. Oh, and one little nuance, XDA doesn't have 20 billion dollars to burn and can't put an ad on every freakin' web site out there.
Dukenukemx said:
Windows Mobile BAD
#1 Lots of problems with 3D acceleration support. Mainly due to OpenGL ES drivers.
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That's not a deficiency of Windows Mobile, it's a deficiency of phones manufactured by HTC. Users of the Toshiba TG01 and Acer neoTouch are very happy with their 3D support, and indeed with their hardware-accelerated video playback of virtually any codec and wrapper format.
vangrieg said:
Google is buying new companies if they need a new feature - Android and YouTube are good examples. Microsoft isn't much better, but they have at least 2.5 sources of income - Windows, Office and Server/Tools. Now, that's a much better success because they sell that stuff. You have to be a complete loser to provide something that usually costs money for free, having a huge pile of cash and the world's largest web ad brokerage to not get a sizable market share. Yet Google does it all the time with Buzzes, Waves and all that acid-driven stuff that even tech savvy people rarely understand. And yeah, they'll muck up more than once with Android, the patent protection issue for OEMs is just the first bell that rang.
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I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
Actually, if you carefully listen to what Google execs say, it's not working for them. They are very nervous. I agree that one of the key problems is that they just started to diversify. They are doing too many mistakes though which are relatively easy to avoid. It's actually a funny phenomenon you can often see in companies driven by engineers because they're so into technologies and inventions and such that they just can't resist pushing their cool new things out the door. Google is in fact a lot like Microsoft, only less mature and disciplined, in this regard. A contrast to this approach is Apple where hardly anyone ever sees a beta product, and the company is incredibly focused.
Apart from product development, there's one more thing where Google doesn't have a lot of experience, and that's partnering with others. Jobs once said that he absolutely admires Gates's abilities in this regard, saying that in fact, with all the spats, fan base animosity, tensions and all, Microsoft is the only long-term partner Apple has had through all these years, and the partnership works amazingly well for both parties. He even noted that MS is the second largest developer of software for Apple products after Apple. Google has a long way to learn how to maze through all these issues and make lasting relationships. It's one thing to attract everyone with a free product and give OEMs better bargaining position against Microsoft with a mobile OS, it's a totally different thing to carry it on to market leadership with so many conflicting interests and challenges.
Sure OEMs flirt with open source OSes, IBMs and HPs of the world are investing a lot of resources into Linux development and all, but at the end of the day which OS shows up as "recommended" on their web sites? Sure HTC is all about Android, Open Handset Alliance and all that PR stuff these days, but what does its CEO say when asked why HD2 was a WM device? "We have to take care of Windows Mobile first".
WhyBe said:
What happens when Android becomes the NEW Windows Mobile?
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This is not going to happen.
Contrary to what some people believe, "fragmentation" does not hurt Android much and it's not what made Windows Mobile die.
Windows Mobile died, because it got zero support from Microsoft over many years. There was no money and no developers. They could easily have made it competitive to the iPhone within a year. But they didn't. It took them one and a half years to even figure out what to do and end all the internal battles, which is an eternity in the mobile space.
Google stand behind their mobile OS and you can be sure that they will fix any problems that emerge. If fragmentation becomes too much of an issue, they'll fix it. If the UI gets outdated, they'll fix it. Microsoft didn't fix anything.
And aside from that, it will take Windows Phone 7 at least another year, to even become an option. Handsets must be launched, bugs will have to be fixed and the Marketplace has to be filled. Only then will it be competitive, if ever.
That's plenty of time before you can even consider Windows Phone 7, thus switching to Android now is not wasted money.
RAMMANN said:
I don't understand it as well, but seems like it's working for them. Microsoft offer more products because they are around way longer. Google are only here for roughly 10 years. Look up what MS had to offer after 10 years of existence, which was in 1985.
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How can you compare this?
A lot of what Google has done the last 10 years is based on what MS and others made possible the first 10 years.
It's like saying that Ferrari has accomplished more then Ford because they have made better and faster cars the last 10 years then Ford did the first 10.
Ferrari might not have existed today if their wasn't someone that made engines and wheels before them.
Android is the first (open source) Linux OS that has been sold on a device. although you call it open source it's not more open the WM or iPhone.
Google is controlling the development of the OS and anyone can make applications for it.. whats the difference now between android, WM or iPhone? and witch one of them is most open source? all of them have the same. A company that develops the OS and developers making the apps.
I only see MS going less open source with WP7.
and to not having porn apps and other stuff on iPhone well jailbreak and you have it.
Now some will say you can't do anything without jailbraking an iphone. Well without Hard spl you are also kind of sucked on WM.
Android has already several updates and can't be run by all older devices.
WM also have a few updates but a wizard that is quite an old device can run WM 6.5.
After seeing this video here, I feel pretty outraged, not at the guy, but at Microsoft.
So, here goes nothing:
1.would you really believe today Microsoft has such weak security for apps marketplace, I mean comeon just https would have been nice?
2.would you really believe today Microsoft knowing all these holes and weaknesses has not done anything so far?
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
Either way, it just seems too dodgy that Microsoft has produced such poor security and has not done anything about it at all. Put 1 and 1 together, and you get the big picture.
I might just be crazy, but well, that's what I think..
Oh please. what a stupid stupid theory. you've wasted your time writing this and my time reading it! windows mobile was like fully hackable and was that a really popular phone OS?
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
3.I think it's very obvious that WP7 hasn't been as successfully commercial so far as Microsoft would have hoped (comeon, I think AT&T was giving away a free WP7 phone when you purchase 1, I doubt you can get any more desperate than that). That coupled with an incomplete OS in many way that leaves consumers lacking.
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Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
3 very simple things, but one BIG conclusion: Microsoft is most likely using a deadly tactic to win consumer sales: let a few people around the net fiddle with WP7, WP7 marketplace, make it not too hard for them to get through and access files and pirate them. What's the result? The community have access to pirate apps? No, MORE THAN THAT people see it as an incentive to shift and join the WP7 piracy waggon. If it's that easy to get those quality paid apps and games for free, maybe we should all move to WP7, yah?
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Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
It is clear that Microsoft has quite commanding agreements with several top phone manufacturers htc, samsung, etc, but the reality is most likely that these manufacturers would rather tell Microsoft to stop bossing, particularly if their WP7 phones barely any sales.
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The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
So, end Microsoft gets desperate, manufactures get desperate, carriers get desperate. Carriers have no power at all. Manufacturers have limited power since their hardware has to stick to what Microsoft required. Hence, only Microsoft can do anything about it.
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Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
I'm just guessing, but I believe it goes way beyond mere tactic for fighting marketing and sales failure. I believe it was a pre-emptive or contingency plan from Microsoft all along. Make sure everything is hackable to a certain extent so people can just join easily, with the announced January updates as an option to close the holes and tighten the security if they are satisfied or people get too suspicious.
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Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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so u have not used WM.... great, DO HAVE A WP7 device???
ameel said:
I never used Windows Mobile, but come on, Windows Phone 7 seems so easy compared to other OS out there, in terms of effort required... -.- Besides, it doesn't look like Microsoft has done anything so far has it? Given how silly and simple to fix some of the basic problems are and how easy it would be for them to implement why have they done nothing, huh?
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i'm sure there will be a fix for any known problems in the next update! it takes time - cant believe your actually trying to defend yourself! its not a conspiracy get over it.
the moon landing was REAL btw incase you had any conspiracy theores about that too.
vbetts said:
All of the OSes have security flaws. That's why there's root and jailbreaking. Plus, hackulous is pretty well known on iPhone but there's been nothing done about that for a long time now. It's not a conspiracy at all, it's just a flaw in the security like every other os has.
Would you believe that AT&T was also giving away a free Captivate when you buy one? Or Verizon giving away any Droid phone free with an equal or lesser priced droid? Tmobile does the same with almost all of their phones, no matter the platform. It's called a deal.
Well people sure have joined the Iphone and Hackulous bandwagon haven't they? Well actually, no not really. Hackulous is a big issue in Ios, but not big enough for the average person to know about. Plus we have this site, which is Windows mobile and Android based completely. Another proof that people aren't going on any band wagon.
The OS is still new, and has only been on 2 carriers in the US. Plus, it's not like when Android came out where your only real competition is the Iphone, and a couple of other smart phones. Now it's down to competition from other Android phones, to phone features, to OS even. The hardware manufactures are taking this seriously too. If they weren't, then why does HTC already have 5 Windows 7 phone devices out?
Carriers have no power? Are you joking? Microsoft doesn't have any power over the carriers. When they did, the Kin didn't sell too well and eventually stopped service completely! After a couple of months! You want someone who has complete control over the carrier, look at the Iphone. The Iphone doesn't even have an AT&T logo on it, that's how much Apple is in control of AT&T. Hell, the first Iphone you had to buy at full price. AT&T finally demanded that they sell at a contract price. As for limited powers, 3 buttons and a 1 ghz cpu requirement. Yup, that's a huge limitation considering we have multiple ARM platforms that run at 1 ghz, and it's too hard to just have 3 buttons isn't it?
Oh please, there is no plot for piracy from Microsoft. Bottom line is, it wouldn't be a Microsoft OS if it couldn't be hacked.
So your logic, it's simple to use so it's simple to hack? That's not how it works, the security of an os isn't based on the UI. The phone was made to be easy to navigate through features. Not navigate through file systems.
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Wahay! Someone knows what they're talking about ^__^ OP is a total moron, end of thread.
You do realize that WP7 has outperformed both iPhone and Android launches in terms of hardware sales and apps available in the marketplace, right?
As for the security breach - it makes no difference as you still need an unlocked phone to load these apps onto.. Something most people do not have, and the ones that have used Chevron keep having to re-unlock their phones every time they sync it with Zune (or put the phone into airplane mode). Until there is a permanent unlock available it doesn't matter how insecure the marketplace is.
Also, pirated iPhone apps have been floating around the net for years now - most people still purchase the apps. There just isn't any point in pirating an app that costs a buck, especially when it's 10 times faster and easier just buying it thru the marketplace than it is to download a cracked version, unlocking your phone and sideloading said app.
What the.....?
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
JamesAllen said:
Have we actually run out of worthwhile topics in this forum? This one is very funny. I respect your right to have an opinion, but certainly can't respect that opinion.
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They're running out of things to bash about the OS... Lol... As for the topic, no, I don't agree with a single word you said... It's impossible to make a completely secure OS, and Microsoft can't push out updates every four days to ensure everything gets patched instantly...
Wow this made me laugh pretty hard. You must be new to the smartphone arena if you think that virtually every other platform besides iOS hasn't had buy one, get one free or similar sales for devices.
And you must be a very deranged person to think Microsoft purposefully has security flaws, something that every OS has, desktop AND mobile.
Waste of time. I wish I was a mod so I could edit your post with "No one read this."
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
ameel said:
Haha, love the replies
But seriously chill guys. I was just bored, and decided to write some crap, dnt take it too seriously leh
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mod, please close thread. Op states he was just "joking".
Sent from my HD7 using Board Express
Yakkaimono said:
It's pretty simple actually.
piracy so early after the initial OS release > more and more developers jump off the platform > no quality apps > no apps to pirate
So on the long run MS would kill their own OS with such a dicision and no software company is that dumb.
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wow... this has really worked out for the iOS and Android community hasn't it?
the more security flaws get unearthed, the more the creators can make it better. The platform has been out for only a couple of months... if you think about the task required to change over to the recommended https instead, it requires both server and client side updates... but even then, that isn't the root of the problem, the root of the problem is in the XAP, so a change in that would still require an update to server, client, and dev machine...
anyways, as said above... "joking" = close.
I believe the WP7 community is a bit different atm than the other communities were when they started out. So I think my "theory" has a bit of sense behind it.
But anyway lets just forget this and close this thread!
wow that's a terrible theory. Companies that make 20+billion dollars in profit come up with simpler solutions to their problems. Like discontinue an entire product line!
This thread isn't even a trainwreck...
The train just vanished.
Poof.
Oh well, at least no HAZMAT crew or evacuations are necessary.
I've read less ridiculous things in the Berenstein Bears.
Sorry to say but not very bright with the conspiracy theory. If you really want a conspiracy theory try this. Why would microsoft release a almost complete os to the public? Free beta testing my friend. You release an incomplete os and you have microsoft fanboys, elitests, and others reporting bugs, optimizing applications, sharing ideas to improve the os, and reporting various bugs that exist, all for free. Real world testing for free. But anyways this is really a waste of time thread. Please put more time and effort into posting threads.
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
digger1985 said:
Windows mobile was dying. By focusing on consumers Apple was steadily encroaching into the business users. MS had no option but to ditch Windows mobile and go for the consumer market.
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Honestly, I think windows mobile just need to be refined. It was lacking stability and user interface and hardware quality. The lack of that is the freezes, slow down both short term and long term and ease of use. The combination of improved hardware and improved UI and consistent use would have gone a long way towards core users since most people assume WP7 is WM7 anyways.
The only guess I can take is that they either couldn't recover from the state the code was in or more likely just went the Iphone route. From what I read WM7 was scrapped and Zune developers took over.
why not ask on social.microsoft.com... that is more direct line than here...
i would imagine that they are going to introduce more than just what they've listed. when you are going to give a general roadmap, you would give the big highlights, not everything.
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
CSMR said:
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-directly installable apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
Directly installable apps is not something they need either as they will roll out a set package of apps - just look at corporate laptops today, everything comes preinstalled from the IT dept. Now, sure, if you are talking about business apps for "personal" phones for their employees the IT dept rollout will not work, but MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
CSMR said:
-copy and paste
-multitasking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These are coming thruout the year, but TBH multitasking isn't something used by most WinMo enterprise users. Sure, some do use it for GPS tracking in the background but the vast majority of said users have these devices as a one-trick pony. Take UPS for example, they use them to scan packages, collect signatures and track drivers - that's it. None of which are performed simultaneously.
CSMR said:
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-business-class security features
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do agree with most of these though. Not sure what you mean by business-class security features, but other than that they do need to roll out VPN and enhanced Exchange support. VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Omega Ra said:
well copy/paste, multitasking are both coming...C/P in early march and multi-tasking sometime this year...so it's a start. Plus better skydrive integration for all office docs...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
emigrating said:
The above will never happen on WP7, real business users don't need file system access or USB mass storage support since they use the cloud - either in a hosted capacity or their own private setup. Either way, they always have access to their documents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Isolated storage is a terrible restriction, whether it is local or in the cloud. So terrible that Microsoft had to make limited exemptions for particular sorts of content with special apis to be accessed by more than one program (e.g. photos).
Look you can have office workers who just edit spreadsheets and word documents, maybe this is fine for them. But for serious users of technology this is unacceptable. Just think of the history. You had slide rules and other specific calculating devices devices. Then Charles Babbage develops a mechanical computer which is actually Turing complete, then Turing proves that there is this type of computer that can do anything that is computable, then people built these things, and now we are back with - as long as a device can do x,y,z popular tasks we are OK. End rant.
Directly installable apps... MS has said they are working on private marketplace support here - sort of like how you get the Samsung or T-Mobile marketplace categories today.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK let me continue the rant a little. Alan Turing did not envisage a system where for an algorithm to succeed it has to first pass the approval of human censors. It takes the undecidability problem a little too far, don't you think?
Anyway, any improvement is good but what is the timeframe? At some point this will happen, unless the public overtures to homebrew hackers were a mistake.
VoIP I'm not so sure about, most business users (even fairly small ones) I've been in contact with already have great plans with their telcos and will route calls thru their local/private exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
I agree with all your points.
It's fine not to have the features at launch but they must add them quickly. The argument that some like to use that WP7 is new & to just be patient is wearing thin. WP7 is competing with the IPhone & Android of today not of yesterday, so why should customers bother waiting too long for features already available on competing products? The UI is great but not spectacularly better IMO.
I want WP7 to succeed but the clock is ticking & MS only has a limited amount of time to make it a hit.
N8ter said:
The OP has a good point, and people are just ragging him without even thinking about it.
The rate of progress is slow. Look at the interview with the product manager. Guy should be fired, since he obviously failed in some aspect of his job in handling WP7 development and updates.
They are developing a phone for consumers, and decided to not release a 1st party WLM client, for example.
2 Months later, after they launch WP7, Microsoft releases a 1st party WLM client for iOS, then they releases OneNote for iOS.
Not only is it a slow rate of progress, but they are constantly *****-slapping their own customers. Why get a WP7 device over an Apple iPhone or an Android Phone + iTouch with Wireless Tethering, if Microsoft will give more attention to iOS than WP7. iOS has gotten more "updates" from the Windows Live team than WP7 since WP7 was launched. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Zune app for Mac and a Zune Pass Quasi-App for iOS in a few months, along with XBox Live goodies... At the moment it doesn't seem like they have a clue what direction they want to move in, or what market they want to target to be honest...
It seems disingenuous to sell WP7 to customers and then tell them to wait a year+ for a decent update while you're banging out iOS apps for iPhone/iTouch users...
Probably would have been better for them to just release a better Zune HD and put all of their mobile support behind iOS, IMO. Could have saved their users money, time, and frustration, and allowed them to get work down faster and better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
N8ter said:
Why do people keep repeating this 10x in every thread, as if we do NOT know what's coming?
We know it's coming. Why is something like that coming, instead of having been launched to begin with. From what I've seen WP7 was in development for like 2 years, considering they did use CE as a base, it seems a bit retarded that stuff like this had to be added in and they are delivering better apps for iOS than WP7 while WP7 customers stand there with blank faces wondering why they have to wait a year to get iOS features when iOS is getting features they want in weeks/months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
leowp7 said:
and why do you have to keep repeating post after post that wp7 should have included c/p , this and that blah blah blah? I know why you want c/p so that you dont have to right the same thing over and over again lols.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
CSMR said:
Cloud arguments don't get rid of arguments for common file stores. There are files on the cloud and on local storage. Either way, the same file should be accessible by more than one program. That means that the file is "common", not "isolated".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed - but that's a whole different can of worms. What I was commenting on was getting content onto your phone in the first place. I fully agree there should be a shared store accessible by any installed application.
CSMR said:
You can work your way around it but nothing is better than a native solution.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, I agree. But in my experience businesses (at least here) have free connectivity between their mobile devices and their offices. More and more these days there are no landlines available at all, everyone uses mobile which is routed thru a local (ie. corporate) switch.
CSMR said:
Anyway, yes this stuff is important to businesses, some more than others, but the rest are important to power users, anyone who wants to use the device as more than a feature phone, who is not Mr. Average and at some point may want to do something that Mr. Average does not do. Mr. Average may have money on average, and power in democracies, but people who are not Mr. Average are also important, in fact far more so for the world.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is where we don't agree
Power-users - or early-adopters; they are generally the same people - are not generating [direct] revenue and as such their usage patterns are not of great importance initially. What they do do is drive demand for these features down to an average level, so at some point it will become mainstream, but not today.
N8ter said:
An you still have nothing of value to add to the discussion. Life must hate you.
Here's a razor. You know what to do with it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats so uncalled for.....
leowp7 said:
thats so uncalled for.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
CSMR said:
The slowness of WP continues to disappoint.
In windows mobile we had:
-file system access and USB mass storage (since 2000)
-VPN support (since 2002)
-SIP VOIP (since 2007)
-almost full support for Exchange.
-copy and paste
-multitasking
-directly installable apps
-business-class security features
In 2010 WP7 was released without these features. In 2011 we will have copy and paste and multitasking. This is a diabolically slow rate of progress. Instead, we have play features like twitter support, ability to wave the phone in front of a TV, great.
Businesses are Microsoft's most important and successful market. When will WP support features for businesses and serious users? 2012? 2013?
The slow rate of progress was cemented in Ballmer's speech today. No wonder Nokia's shares continued to fall. Microsoft could have timed basic feature-completeness to coincide with Nokia's entry. Instead, when their phones come out in late 2011, WP7 will still be a toy OS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
lumpaywk said:
I have not read the following posts so forgive me if this point has been made but this sort of thread gripes me so so bad.
WINDOWS PHONE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT! WINDOWS MOBILE
It is aimed at general consumers more than business much like the iphone. Windows Mobile will have a new version out some point this year as it is not windows phone and is still being developed.
Please for gods sake keep this whole delusion that WP7 is anything to do with WM6.5 out of your heads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's no delusion that 6.5 is far superior to WP7, as of now.
amtrakcn said:
Windows Mobile is most functional moile OS of all time, even Android cannot beat WM on functionality. However, the sales proved that WM is not welcomed by majority of the market. This is reasonnable.
You are using a cell phone. How many calls do you make everyday? Then how many C&Ps?
Just refining WM might not be good enough to save MS on phones.
“True multitasking” drains battery. And whatever perfection the system itself can reach, its stablity cannot survive badly written apps and unlimited modification.
Also there was a problem for WM app ecosystem. Kind like what we are seeing on Android now, maybe worse...
At least there is Office on WP... Also remote lock?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what functionality are you refering to that every other phone OS hasn't had for 2plus years ?
I make/receive on average 1 phone call a day, while I copy/paste at least 20 times a day.
N8ter said:
I deal with "uncalled for" things thrown at me on this forum all the time. I'm not crying about it. I'd edit it out, but since you quoted it instead of PMing me it's not worth it.
Report it to a moderator. I'll eat my infraction if they feel they need to issue one. /shruggery/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. im not crying about anything, just stating the obvious
2. I feel anyone should be allowed to say what they think, so are you, but why the need for the bully factor?
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
They are also bringing Silverlight to the Xbox (finally), so yeah - awesomeness indeed
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
considering windows 8 beta is coming out this year with a massive graphic overhaul and tablet mode, with ability to run appx and exe, I would probably think microsoft may be doing something right.
What really amazes me is that part of windows 8 can be scalable for mobile devices...something intel wants (due to the metro ui nature and easy finger friendly gui)
Again microsoft may be on to something. Heck I hate the ifad and I abhor the android 3.0 so microsoft's tablet offerings should be quite interesting
lekki said:
If only we had MS employees with actual power in the company who read XDA and other tech sites regularly to see what the hordes want and implement all reasonable ideas in a reasonably short amount of time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA is not really the place to find hordes of people. We are a select few, and a small percentage of the user-base.
Now, we actually need to see a device and prices.
well this would be an interesting change:
m$ making finger ui elements for desktops instead of the other way around.
can't see hords of people getting excited about silverlight though.
the only app (ok not really) I use or can imagine using between both is google maps. contacts, calendar, gmail already sync easily enough. bookmarks in ffox, history, etc, is this really a new idea ?
Jim Coleman said:
News is starting to surface, as I long suspected it would, that Windows 8 is going to support cross-platform silverlight apps, so apps that run on your WP7 device will also run on your PC.
If this means apps you've already purchased for your phone will be downloadable from the Windows 8 marketplace and runnable directly on your PC without further cost, then I say this feature will completely rock, and it will shake up the market. It will, IMHO, really switch people on to both Windows 8 and WP7, and help WP7 slaughter Android and iPhone.
Kudos to Microsoft for this stroke of genius.
It also ties in with Windows 8's enhanced cloud data support, which would be needed if both phone and PC are to share data in their respective apps.
If apps could sync their data to the cloud, then you could literally swap between devices and use the same apps which would have the same state info - You could be running a comic reader (such as Comica) on your phone, which has been set to read only particular comic feeds, be looking at last week's Dilbert, switch to your laptop/tablet, fire up Comica on that and be landed exactly where you left off on your phone, with the app set up to receive exactly the same feeds! It would be the perfect backup for your phone as well :O)
Awesomeness.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Anyway, with the inclusion of Windows 8 and Xbox 360, the market for this app platform will be an order of magnitude larger. Developers should come flocking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget though that Windows 8 will have a touch-optimized GUI, so should be able to handle any app designed purely for touch, such as WP7 apps.
But I'm with you on the fact that they'll have to recompile the code for the two target devices though.
PG2G said:
I don't think the goal is to be running the exact same app on different platforms. You can't really, the input methods are different and so are the form factors (any good iPad app is likely different from its iPhone equivalent). What we'll see is ~90% code reuse, where developers only need to change user facing parts of their applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly this. As long as MS does this right - by providing the same APIs on every platform - "porting" an app from WP7 to Slate to Desktop to Xbox (i.e. all three screens) will be as easy as designing different UIs for each platform.
vetvito said:
Customers first, then developers. We need to see a device and price, everything else is just nerd chatter. There was these exact same talks years ago.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7. They have flocked to the Xbox. There are droves of them for Windows in general.
While apps does not a platform make, it sure as hell helps and since MS has the best developer tools in the industry ... well, developers will develop for their products.
Not sure what devices and prices you want to see, this thread is about cross platform app support, not slates or tablets or TVs or mobiles.
emigrating said:
You're wrong though. Developers did flock to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
vangrieg said:
Yes, but if those WP7 devices don't sell well they will flock away eventually no matter how great dev tools are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
emigrating said:
But they are selling. Don't know what data you've seen but everything I see indicates WP7 are selling fairly well. Hell, [some] devs make more money on WP7 than they do on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have no idea how well they are selling. I'm actually not saying they aren't. I don't know. However, all I've seen so far was that sales are decent given the circumstances - few devices, very limited number of markets, only half the carriers in the US etc. etc. In order for all devs to make a lot of money WP7 will have to sell much more phones than now. If it doesn't happen within a year or so they won't be too happy. I'm not suggesting that it will happen though.
emigrating said:
As for devs running away - once the three-screens and a cloud scenario is all ironed out there really is no point in developers leaving. The Xbox is already doing great for games, the PC is doing great for apps - if you are a developer for either of these and you can suddenly release for the other platforms without investing tons of time and money, you will.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Peew971 said:
Microsoft have always had great ideas to be fair. Their big problem is they are always so slow to deliver that eventually they're outdone by someone else by the time things come together.
I don't see that changing unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what is going to happen. By the time MS releases Windows 8 (2012-2013) it will either have already been done (probably by apple) or no one will care anyway as they will have moved on to tablets as their main computing device. And I dont really see what the big draw is, I prefer fully featured programs on my pc rather than phone version with limited functionality due to the target device's shortcomings.
FiyaFleye said:
Yeah, because we've seen how well OSX has outdone Microsoft feature wise... Microsoft is always the most innovated company, they've just never focused on being 'pretty' until recently... You thrown in a little make-up with the juggernaut ideas they bring to the world and it's hard to argue that they'll snatch back that number one spot in no time, regardless of pricing... The MacBooks are severely overpriced and still sell because they're pretty...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
ohgood said:
mmm... you are partially right: mac laptops are pretty. that's not why they sell though.
they have nicer keyboards, and the reputation of being used instead of maintained. no virus mess, no reboots, no bsods. the reputation is what sells them. I've never heard any person say "I just love our new Microsoft Windows Seven Professional Edition with Microsoft 9ffice and Internet Explorer 29 AAA"
its always " sigh... I love my mac"
hell macs are usually a step behind on specs and speed, and they still sell like hotcakes. pretty ? indeed !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MacBooks are sold primarily to college students who have zero idea of anything you just mentioned. When was the last massive virus outbreak? BSOD? Needed reboots? I'm not talking about $200 laptops here, I'm talking genuine Windows capable machines... Kids go after Apple products because they're cool & pretty, has zero to do with function or reputation... The iPhone has a reputation of horrid service, bad antenna placement, & overpriced plans... It still sells though... And Mac OSX or whatever they hell it's called now has a reputation for lack of software, incapabilities, and overall hindered use, yet I can tell you the majority of 18-22 year olds at my University want a new, shiny one...
Windows7 went far in taking function, and making it pretty. Windows Phone 7 did the same, took function, and made it smooth and pretty... They've lost some features in the short term, but they've accomplished their goals of making them consumer friendly and hip...
I'm not as pessimistic as a lot of these Microsoft/Windows/WP7 haters on this forum, I see a possitive outlook... Microsoft has never really done anything to make me think differently... I mean, people here have said "Apple will do it first" - how exactly? What 'new' feature has Apple EVER come out with? They take existing technology, make it look shiny, and market it. I give them all the credit in the world for that. But as far as beating Microsoft to something as innovated and incredible as cross device perfection? Nah, won't happen.
vangrieg said:
Look, this three screen scenario is awesome. But I'll believe it when I see it. I have a Windows Phone, an XBox, several Windows PCs and a Windows Home Server. Windows Phone has this sync over Wi-Fi capability which is great. But I don't use it because my Windows PC is a notebook with an SSD and I don't have space there to keep all this music. I have it on my WHS, but does Microsoft let me install Zune there? No. I have some other music there, and I can stream it to my XBox. Does XBox use the awesome Zune interface to control playback? No. It shows me some pukeware stuff. And I have to use my PS3 to actually listen to music from my WHS, and XBox to stream Zune Pass stuff. ****, they don't even let me install their weird Media Center on my home server! Can I use my Windows Phone to control XBox playback? No. And so on.
Microsoft has been a horrible performer in terms of making their products work with each other. And sometimes when you think that something will obviously work between their products, you just can't imagine reasons why this shouldn't happen. But it still fails to happen time after time.
So while in principle this cross-platform Silverlight XAML-based awesomeness does sound thrilling, I've learned not to get too excited about opportunities coming from such things, knowing how Microsoft is an expert in screwing up interoperability.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Finally, someone who feels my frustration. Its like all departments at Microsoft try their best to work against each other. Sometimes they get it right though.