Related
Dears,
I faced the white screen the first time last Thu. I migrated my device (Jasjam) to Black Pro 2.0 on Wed. and started to get the white screen on Thu.
I was going arround it by few turn-of turn-on untill today morning when I noticed that the screen shifted down by 1mm. In fact more precisly, rotated down 1mm. Starting with the splash screens, the Windows booting screen and the Windows later. Everything is rotated down by the 1mm meaning what is disapearing from bottom is showing on top!
I got to the device through the mtty and ran task 2a, everything was okay. Then I ran task 28 and task 8. The deveice booted with the sae shifting problem. I installed the latest LVSW 05Apr07, the same problem still although the Windows is working fine. Switching the device off will not switch the screen off immediatly, the screen goes in fade-away type of action for about 2 minutes until it totally powers off.
Any idea? Does that mean I am loosing the mobile? Please help.
Appreciating all help.
Regards.
attot1239 said:
Dears,
I faced the white screen the first time last Thu. I migrated my device (Jasjam) to Black Pro 2.0 on Wed. and started to get the white screen on Thu.
I was going arround it by few turn-of turn-on untill today morning when I noticed that the screen shifted down by 1mm. In fact more precisly, rotated down 1mm. Starting with the splash screens, the Windows booting screen and the Windows later. Everything is rotated down by the 1mm meaning what is disapearing from bottom is showing on top!
I got to the device through the mtty and ran task 2a, everything was okay. Then I ran task 28 and task 8. The deveice booted with the sae shifting problem. I installed the latest LVSW 05Apr07, the same problem still although the Windows is working fine. Switching the device off will not switch the screen off immediatly, the screen goes in fade-away type of action for about 2 minutes until it totally powers off.
Any idea? Does that mean I am loosing the mobile? Please help.
Appreciating all help.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Remove the battery for 5 minutes and re-insert it back..see if it will fix it or not.
attot1239 said:
Dears,
I faced the white screen the first time last Thu. I migrated my device (Jasjam) to Black Pro 2.0 on Wed. and started to get the white screen on Thu.
I was going arround it by few turn-of turn-on untill today morning when I noticed that the screen shifted down by 1mm. In fact more precisly, rotated down 1mm. Starting with the splash screens, the Windows booting screen and the Windows later. Everything is rotated down by the 1mm meaning what is disapearing from bottom is showing on top!
I got to the device through the mtty and ran task 2a, everything was okay. Then I ran task 28 and task 8. The deveice booted with the sae shifting problem. I installed the latest LVSW 05Apr07, the same problem still although the Windows is working fine. Switching the device off will not switch the screen off immediatly, the screen goes in fade-away type of action for about 2 minutes until it totally powers off.
Any idea? Does that mean I am loosing the mobile? Please help.
Appreciating all help.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what bootloader version are you running?
Many thanks trashcan for your quick response. I have removed the battery for 5 minutes, the screen was still showing that last image. I keept the battery out for 15 minutes untill the screen was totally off. Reruting the battery resolved the ****ing issue, thanks again.
Also thanks to walshieau, the device has IPL-1.01 and SPL-1.40.Olipro.
Regards.
Regards.
The bad part of the news is that the white screen is still comming!!!
Any clue?
Regards.
I thought of sharing this with you
I have just done the follwoing:
> Updated (again) the device with SSPL-1.40
> Re-flashed the device Force through SSPL the new OS (LVSW)
The phone looks better, however I got the white screen two times in about five minutes.
Wat else I should do? Please share your experience.
Regards.
attot1239 said:
I have just done the follwoing:
> Updated (again) the device with SSPL-1.40
> Re-flashed the device Force through SSPL the new OS (LVSW)
The phone looks better, however I got the white screen two times in about five minutes.
Wat else I should do? Please share your experience.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read?
1) Ensure that you have 1.40.Oli by checking the bootloader screen.
2) Run the upgrade, but, select AUTO DETECT! DO NOT CLICK FORCE SSPL!
3) White screen gone
LegolasTheElf said:
Read?
1) Ensure that you have 1.40.Oli by checking the bootloader screen.
2) Run the upgrade, but, select AUTO DETECT! DO NOT CLICK FORCE SSPL!
3) White screen gone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not quite, the ROM image affects some devices, I'll redo Black 2.0 like I redid LVSW if this keeps happening.
It is getting worse now ... I do not know what is happening
Good morning,
Thanks LegoLasTheElf and Olipro for you input, I started to patch the device again and although everything was normal, the update program sayed the connecting was lost and took me to a recovery screens which just went into a loop (repeating the same steps with no hope).
The device is on the bootloader (tri-color) screen. I tried getting into it using the mtty and set 14 0 (as I found it on on of the posts) however it did not help.
Could someone tell me please to to get the device to boot normal again.
Regards.
attot1239 said:
Good morning,
Thanks LegoLasTheElf and Olipro for you input, I started to patch the device again and although everything was normal, the update program sayed the connecting was lost and took me to a recovery screens which just went into a loop (repeating the same steps with no hope).
The device is on the bootloader (tri-color) screen. I tried getting into it using the mtty and set 14 0 (as I found it on on of the posts) however it did not help.
Could someone tell me please to to get the device to boot normal again.
Regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah... flash my patched LVSW with CustomRUU
Olipro said:
yeah... flash my patched LVSW with CustomRUU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, that works!! That is how I solved my whitescreen.
thx Olipro!!
Many thanks Olipro for your continued help.
I have gove through your topic on the white screen and I posted you a reply there. The megaupload site is blocked in my area, if possible please mirror it on another site, i.e. 4shared.com
Regards.
I have exactly the same White Screen symptoms and more recently, the 1 mm screen shift problem too. I removed my battery for 15 mins and the screen shift temporarily went away but on the next reset, it is back :-(
I have SPL-1.40 Olipro but am unable to download the LVSW to resolve White Screen as Megaupload never works in my area. Can someone post that ROM to Rapidshare please.
Thanks a ton!
Olipro said:
yeah... flash my patched LVSW with CustomRUU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where can I get the CustomRUU? The device is now on the BL screen and the tools are being able to communicate with it.
Regards.
Alright, I have the same problem here. Now before anybody comes on here and tell me to read this and that, I've tried everything.
From going back to 1.01MFG, mtty the OS, use 1.40, use customRUU, leaving the battery out for 5mins, 15mins, hours, over night. Even tried going back to the original ROM and still nothing, the same damn white screen. As far as I am concerned, the intervals are actually getting worse and it comes on more often.
Anybody has any other ideas beside the ones that are posted everywhere. Trust me I've been trying to fix this for over a week now and I have read everything on here.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys
YES This was my first solution
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=298520
bcrx7 said:
Alright, I have the same problem here. Now before anybody comes on here and tell me to read this and that, I've tried everything.
From going back to 1.01MFG, mtty the OS, use 1.40, use customRUU, leaving the battery out for 5mins, 15mins, hours, over night. Even tried going back to the original ROM and still nothing, the same damn white screen. As far as I am concerned, the intervals are actually getting worse and it comes on more often.
Anybody has any other ideas beside the ones that are posted everywhere. Trust me I've been trying to fix this for over a week now and I have read everything on here.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks guys
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=298520
@BCRX7- After the WHITNESS from LVSW and then black1.2 I used this QTEK rom. It got rid of the white screen. Then I used Olipro's modified ROM. I am now running BLACK2.0 with no problems. Props OLIPRO and JasJammin!!!
i solved my white screen in a different and strange way, but easy
you may not believe it, but i did it, i solved the problem of my white screen in a very simple way.
i put my hermes in the fridge for 20 mins at 2C and i keep it on and put it over night.
(no charging, no sync, .... nothing)
this is the way how i solve it.
try it at your home, and tell me what happened to it.
thanks for all.
Hardware or software issue?
Hi,
Did anyone figured if white screen is hardware or software related issue? I wonder if there is anybody that doesn't got any whitescreen since they upgraded to WM6. I observed that the number and the severity of the white screens was different depending of the cooked ROM used (I have Olipro 2.10 SPL, Radio 1.50). Unfortunately I didn't count the white screen number for each version in order to choose the right one
I want to be sure I have tried all software methods before I will send my Hermes to the mobile operator for a replacement (if it is a hardware issue). Thanks in advance for any suggestion!
Hi all.. I had the same prob and it developed into this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=303872
So its a HW problem... You can get it back to normal by hitting(yeah not the nicest thing to do with a toy that has high price tag) the phone when its turned off completely -if its hibernating it doesnt work. If you have warranty time left -get it fixed. If not -you can try opening the hermie and doing whats told on 8th page in thread I mentioned. I got mine fixed by changing the front keyboard circuit board..
my phone was working fine then suddenly phone got stuck on a screen and when i resatart my phone sometimes it gets stuck on the t mobile screen and sometimes on the windows mobile screen. i already flashed the original roms and it dindnt work. sometimes it gets to cold boot but gets stuck at a certain percentage.
can somebody help me?
when it was on with the batterys case windows media player always got stuck and heres the strange thing you took off the back of the phone and it worked just fine... i think its the battery because it axpanded and i have problems to chanrge it too.
Hold down both of your soft keys and reboot.
It will take you to your cold boot config screen, which will reset your phone to factory defaults. That sucks if you have modded this, but sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles.
if this doesnt work hold down the sym button (to the right of the space bar) and then plug your usb in and try to reflash with the original rom the phone came with... (look under below for officials roms link)
i tried both but neither have worked
Gafo said:
i tried both but neither have worked
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Flas phone, tested many times.
Is anyone else having the problem where after a soft reset(or a manual shutdown/restart) touchflo3d doesn't autostart?
It happens to me about 50% of the times I reset, but I jus thave to switch it off again and on again and usually it works fine.
Totally different, but I have this sometimes with Touch Flo 2D on my TyTn II. I usually get it if I've installed to much, It always launches if I haven't got the Micro SD card in though.
I've had this happening to me since I got it, and after a few hard resets it still happens... Seemingly at an increasing frequency too.
Yup, I'm experiencing the same problem.
It's really annoying, and more people are having this issue.
There's already a thread about this.
What works for me most of the time is this:
- Disable TF3D in settings.
- Soft reset device with power button
- Enable TF3D again
- Sometimes TF3D starts now, but if not reset again.
I can't wait for a more stable and fast cooked rom
Hope this helps
Oh Sorry, I couldn't find the other thread. I just keep resetting and hopee it randomly decides to starts. Love this phone, just a few things that really annoy me
The inability to find a way to make it autolock(not standby) after X seconds for example. If anyone can help with that, I'd greatly appreciate it.
aiaob said:
Oh Sorry, I couldn't find the other thread. I just keep resetting and hopee it randomly decides to starts. Love this phone, just a few things that really annoy me
The inability to find a way to make it autolock(not standby) after X seconds for example. If anyone can help with that, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DId you install any apps?
These kind of problems are mostly caused when 2 programs interfere with eachother. Teh reason why one time it does start up and the other time it doesn't is the sequence of programs starting up. Most of the time touch flow 3d will start later (because it's so big)
i have had this happen a couple of times as well.
quarintus said:
DId you install any apps?
These kind of problems are mostly caused when 2 programs interfere with eachother. Teh reason why one time it does start up and the other time it doesn't is the sequence of programs starting up. Most of the time touch flow 3d will start later (because it's so big)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it's caused by that. I've hard reset it installed core and tomtoma nd had it happen..
and I'm sure it's not just slow to start up, I've tried making calls and simply leaving it for 10 minutes and it still doesnt start up.
It only started haooening to me after I instaled software.
I guess the best thing to do right now, is to install all software with touchflo disabled, then reboot completly the device to finalize the instaltion, and then reboot it again. Now you can reactivate Touchflo again.
This "trick" has worked perfectly on my Pro 2
HastaSSSS
disable startup
Many programs that you install will leave a startup file in the windows\startup directory. Try cutting and pasting them to some temporary directory. I did that with poutlook and slovoed and the problem has gone away for me, without in any way impairing my calendar/contacts or slovoed functioning.
I got the same problem too.. soft resetting a few times do it or disable/re-enable on Personal-Today Items screen
Kinda annoying
Same problem here. Spoke to HTC today and tol them there were more people having this problem. Mine is so serious that it won't start at all! HTC says I was the first and ONLY one in the world with this problem. They told me that if there were more people having this issue they should CALL HTC. It's free to call them... please do so in finding a solution!
Thanks!
I am suffering under the same issue! It is really annoying! HTC should immediately sovle this problem!
Sounds a bit like my thread here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3950507
I copied manila.exe from windows to my start-up folder, now it works fine.
yeah i have the same problem its really annoying. it works about 90% of the time now when i copied the manilla.exe to start up folder. before that i tried to put the phone in airplane mode before booting but that worked like half of the time.
Schijthoos said:
I copied manila.exe from windows to my start-up folder, now it works fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the time on the tf3d homescreen update ok when you use the manila.exe shortcut?
touch flor not loading
My phone is hanging again. I can't get it to load Touch Flo 3D. I get this message that it's trying to activate handsfree network and then it says connected and reboots and goes through the same thing 2 or 3 times. I hard reset back in Dec cause of this and then the same thing happened again about a month ago and out of the blue it loaded touch flo and fixed itself.
But this time it's been a couple days and my phone is so slow it's crazy. It's been trying to remove one program for 20 minutes. I thought removing a few programs might help instead of doing another hard reset but it looks like i'm gonna have to do one more.. I haven't added anything new lately. And I even got a message saying your phone can not boot up because of a program from an untrusted source or something else and it wants me to hard reset. It says press volume up to reset or any key to continue and then it goes to that hands activation screen.
Iv'e tried enableing and disabling bluetooth. Sprint store said I have a bad phone cause of that hands free actication message I keep getting and they want to order me aother phone but it's going to be a refurb so I guess i'll hard reset.. Something is causeing it to hang and not load and I don't know what it is.. But I came here and I tired puttingmy phone in airplane mode and rebooted nothng. I have unchecked and checked touch flo and rebooted..
But I went to windows and saw manilla.exe cause you guys said copy it to start up and I clicked on it and I saw my background and clock again but I don't think Touch Flo fully loaded and my task manager wasn't at the top and I ran clean ram cause it was still slow and it said it freed up 32mb but then my screen went black again. I put it in airplane mode once more and took out the battery. But when I never pasted the manila to start up should I do that? I just clicked on it and saw where my clock and background were back but my clock was off by like 15-20 minutes.. I'm sure I'll probablyt have to hard reset but wanted to ask around a couple more times before doing one.. Rose
I was sitting in my den and my friend said he texted me but I didn't get it. I went to check my phone and it seemed ok but no text. I then went to make a phone call and it hung. I went to turn it to airplane mode and it froze. When I restarted it, now I get the black screen with the top and bottom menu bar but no touchflo 3d loading. I get some weird hands free activation message and then it says successful and reboots my phone. When the phone starts back up it is in the same condition without touchflo 3d and the reboot loop continues unless I click cancel.
If I run manilla.exe it will boot up and my today screen will come back but it is SLOW and it doesn't seem to have completely loaded.
WTF happened and how do I fix this?
Same thing happened to me.. Touchflo wouldn't load phone was so slow hands free message kept coming and saying connected and rebooting. I did a hard reset and was good for a couple months then out of the blue on day it did it again. I turned off phone and left battery off overnight and just got lucky and the next day as I was getting in my car it came back on.
But then a few weeks later it did it again and I took it to a Sprint store. I was told that the handsfree activation is something that only happens once when you 1st get a new phone and they said my phone was defective. They were going to order me another one but it was going to be refurbed so I never picked up and just dealt with a hard reset once again. Don't know what causes this but I've had my phone reset for over a week and I just now tonight started putting apps back on cause I was afraid ut had to do with something I installed I really don't know what causes it.. But my touchflo wouldn't load at all compeltely black screen no today screen at all and boy was my phone slow. I went to windows and clicked on manilla.exe also and saw my today screen but it was still slow and not completely loading up to touchflo like you said. And then I read about putting it in airplane mode turning off BT nothing worked for me this last time so I did a heard reset again..
Maybe someone else knows what causes this but I'm leary and am not going to put everything back on my phone that was on there but I've put most everything back.. Sorry I wasn't much help but same thing for me hands free siad connected and would reboot and over and over.. I kind of want an Android phone now and I don't think Sprint should of offered me a refurb when I just bought this in Sept and it's an expensive phone. But oh well things happen.. Good Luck!
killerz298 said:
I was sitting in my den and my friend said he texted me but I didn't get it. I went to check my phone and it seemed ok but no text. I then went to make a phone call and it hung. I went to turn it to airplane mode and it froze. When I restarted it, now I get the black screen with the top and bottom menu bar but no touchflo 3d loading. I get some weird hands free activation message and then it says successful and reboots my phone. When the phone starts back up it is in the same condition without touchflo 3d and the reboot loop continues unless I click cancel.
If I run manilla.exe it will boot up and my today screen will come back but it is SLOW and it doesn't seem to have completely loaded.
WTF happened and how do I fix this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried installing stock roms as well as cooked ones. I hard SPL'ed, installed newer radio to no avail. What can I do? It's too slow to be used properly.
When you install the ROMs, make sure you clear storage before, during, and after. If you do not clear the storage you may not completely flash all the old files, causing issues, lock ups, and slowness. Also, when testing new ROMs I make sure that all the CABs are compatible by taking a day or two before installing another one.
I tried to do what you recommended. Downloaded that task29 utility and wiped the phone's internal memory. Then I found a stock 6.1 rom and installed it. It looked like it was installing fine, but right now it's just stuck on a white screen and has been like this for the past 10 minutes or so. I don't know if it's going to go anywhere with this, or if it's stuck for good.
By the way, does anybody know EXACTLY where I can find a real stock 6.1 distribution? I'm asking because the ones I've been finding are named European and for other phone makes. It seems as if they are linked by other people as being the correct ones, but then when you go to download them, they turn out to be for other phones, or 6.5's instead of 6.1's. I didn't think it was going to be so hard just to find a stock 6.1 rom with which my phone initially came.
8gkl said:
I tried to do what you recommended. Downloaded that task29 utility and wiped the phone's internal memory. Then I found a stock 6.1 rom and installed it. It looked like it was installing fine, but right now it's just stuck on a white screen and has been like this for the past 10 minutes or so. I don't know if it's going to go anywhere with this, or if it's stuck for good.
By the way, does anybody know EXACTLY where I can find a real stock 6.1 distribution? I'm asking because the ones I've been finding are named European and for other phone makes. It seems as if they are linked by other people as being the correct ones, but then when you go to download them, they turn out to be for other phones, or 6.5's instead of 6.1's. I didn't think it was going to be so hard just to find a stock 6.1 rom with which my phone initially came.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which model/carrier do you have?
I have a T-Mobile Touch Pro 2
8gkl said:
I have a T-Mobile Touch Pro 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well as long as you mean the US T-Mobile, the stock 6.1 rom is available HERE
I've tried that stock 6.1 from that thread many times, and it doesn't fully install. It goes through the installation, past the green screen with the windows logo, and then gets stuck on a blank white screen. I've tried many times installing it, and it gets hung on the white screen forever. The curious thing is that some other roms install however. One of the newer Energy roms, as well as the Deepshining one installed fine. The only problem is that everything still is extremely slow to respond. Physical buttons pretty much don't do anything at all.
The bottom four buttons don't light up. Pressing the call and end buttons works, but the home and back buttons don't do anything.
Also, pressing the power button doesn't really shut it off either.
8gkl said:
I've tried that stock 6.1 from that thread many times, and it doesn't fully install. It goes through the installation, past the green screen with the windows logo, and then gets stuck on a blank white screen. I've tried many times installing it, and it gets hung on the white screen forever. The curious thing is that some other roms install however. One of the newer Energy roms, as well as the Deepshining one installed fine. The only problem is that everything still is extremely slow to respond. Physical buttons pretty much don't do anything at all.
The bottom four buttons don't light up. Pressing the call and end buttons works, but the home and back buttons don't do anything.
Also, pressing the power button doesn't really shut it off either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you tried re-downloading the t-mobile 6.1 ROM? I guarantee you that's the stock ROM, and from a T-mobile 6.1. There's been numerous members that have gotten it to work, so the issue isn't with the ROM itself...
I agree that the issue is probably not the rom, because that stock rom has been used by lots of people. But the fact remains that this stock rom doesn't install on my phone, and certain custom roms do.
My phone is generally fcuked, I don't have insurance, and there's pretty much nothing I could do. There is signs of water damage under the screen, though the touch screen works fine, and the wet seal is pink..
Not trying to troll, just an advice.
I just sold my TP2 and bought an N1.
TP2 is just that - slow and unreliable. After 6 years of WinMo phones, Android feels like waking up from a nightmare. Dump that crap and get a real PDA.
DarkDvr said:
Not trying to troll, just an advice.
I just sold my TP2 and bought an N1.
TP2 is just that - slow and unreliable. After 6 years of WinMo phones, Android feels like waking up from a nightmare. Dump that crap and get a real PDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But even the N1 isn't waterproof...so I don't think even that fine piece of hardware would have prevented the issues here
I have an android phone myself, the HTC G1 (Dream). I agree that android, though I can't really see all of it's guts like I can on a winmo phone, is more user friendly and stable. I've owned the G1 since the beginning of android's career, ever since that first Android OS was out. It was quite horrible at that time. It came through quite a bit now, as well in terms of all the different roms available.
I don't want to throw this TP2 away though. At this point I'm thinking of the things that I can do to get anything out of it. Apparently the phone insurance can only be purchased within 14 days of the phone purchase, so I'm late there. I just can't think of anything I can do. I'll know better next time to get insurance right away.
Hey guys, wondering if anyone is able to create a recovery image for me to download of 8.1+update 1.
My surface rt wont boot past the surface logo. I can't find my usb drive that had my restore image but on top of that it was 8.0 anyway. I checked the ms website and they only host an 8.0 image as well.
At this point I am willing to try anything. I did attempt to download and boot to the 8.0 recovery image by inserting the usb drive and holding power and volume down until the logo came up, but so far doesn't seem to do anything. Am I completely hosed?
long version:
About a year ago, my surface started performing really poorly. Basically any swipe gestures would either not work or they would be extremely delayed. The animation would also be delayed. Other things would be really slow for instance, in IE tapping inside an address bar wouldn't load the keyboard for about a minute. PS 90% of my activity is on IE reading news or watching youtube.
Several months back I finally noticed that anytime I would start experience these issues, the disk usage in task manager would be pegged at 99% even though the read might literally show only 14 KB/s and the write might only be 1 MB/s. The biggest flag though was the response time was always in the thousands of ms.
I pretty much lived with the problem and often a restart would seem to make things happy for a while. And I usually leave task manager open so I can peek and see the utilization anything things feel sluggish.
Last night it was behaving worse than before. I managed to navigate through the charms and attempted to restart. But after waiting several minutes of it just saying restarting with that circular loading image decided to force the issue and I held down the power button until it shut off. It only said restarting, not installing updates or anything like that. I waited way longer than it would have reasonably taken and under normal circumstances, if it was installing updates, it is very obvious and the messages are clear. Plus the charms power option was simply restart, not update and restart.
Sadly when I tried to power back on, it just gets stuck at the "Surface" logo and doesn't do anything. I waited 10 minutes and forced the power off and tried again. It was late so I decided to go to bed, but left it running in hopes that it would eventually boot up. I woke up 4 hours later and it still showed the Surface text on a black screen. At that point I decided to shut it off.
I had already installed update 1 last week, BUT just in case it is some kind of failed windows update. Is there anyway to "reinstall" from this state?
Gonna be extremely bummed if my device is permanently bricked.
If memory serves, I'm pretty sure I deleted the recovery partition BUT I have a flash drive that has the backup, although it would be an 8.0 backup not 8.1.
Restore to 8 then update?
drearyworlds said:
Restore to 8 then update?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't boot from the 8.0 image. Not sure if its cause it's completely hosed or because it needs 8.1. I'm not getting the boot record problem as reported by people when 8.1 first came out.