Develop Bugs

Forum Layout

Hi,
I've recently got a Touch Diamond and have found certain aspects of this forum helpful however I can't help but feel that this place has an appauling forum layout.
Are you afraid of creating some sub-sections or something? I mean seriously, what's the point of all the square bracket tags on the start of topic titles?
They don't make it easier to find because the topics are still jumbled up with all the others anyway and a good topic title should let you know what it is related to in the first place. I thought that maybe at least a search for a certain tag would reveal all of those topics but alas no, the search gave me no results at all even though I can see them on the screen in the forum listing it still doesn't find them.
Take the Diamond themes, apps & s/w section for example...
Why not simply create a sub-section for related topics such as Themes and hence have all theme topics together and do away with the need for tagging the titles.
Sorry to criticise your forum but I just don't see the logic in the current system as it makes things very difficult to find, especially when the search tells me there are no results containing [THM] or 1.93 etc. :lol:

Thanks for the reply regarding the search, hopefully I'll be able to find a little more of what I'm looking for now.
I've come across plenty of forums that don't allow searches for less than 4 characters but surely [THM] is 5 characters
Anyway, that's not my main point, I just think that the forum ingeneral would be friendlier to browse and need less searching if it was better organised to begin with.

Thanks again for the reply and nice little site overview
I agree that a good forum is run in a manner that keeps the members happy though it should also be as user friendly as possible. There are always people who prefer to avoid change but they will quickly get used to changes if they are for the better.
I'm a forum SuperModerator myself and my advise is that a clear layout helps a lot with finding info, where to post questions and also getting replies for those questions as topics don't get swapmed like they do in one large general section.
As for mods being unloved I would say that depends on how much of a presence they have in the forum, invisible mods are unloved because they are unknown with no personality but if your mods are active forum members they will be known and more respected as well as being someone people can go to if problems arise.
lol, sorry I didn't meant to launch into a forum moderation tutorial there

"Development and Hacking" should be splitted

"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards

i would have to disagree myself. i think the section is fine the way it is (all the question threads removed ) If you know what you are after then you just need to search. I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where top ost with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.

First, sorry if the original version of this comes off the wrong way, I just noticed it might read a little snotty...especially since I started typing it before joel2009's post, but it as posted up later it reads like I'm arguing.
joel2009 said:
I think splitting things up will only result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where to post with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
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The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others. Examples include:
Kaiser software, which has a lot of postings that apply to several other phones.
Raphael Software/Themes Apps and Software (Diamond), both of these basically cover the same thing. I've seen a number of people make requests or ask questions that are already resolved in the other thread.
The main D&H forum, even if you ignore the little groupings the OP had (i.e. xda releases vs. ported apps), is home to at least 3 very separate postings/releases; ROM Tools, Phone Apps, and Skins/Themes. For a "simple" user who's just trying to watch for themes and skins this is a lot of unnecessary noise. Imagine a Raphael or Diamond owner looking for applications, there's at least 4 groups to watch and 3 of them are kept under specific phones. A new diamond owner won't realize all the stuff they are missing. I think that's more confusing to new users.
My suggestion, to be taken worth it's digital equivalence to a grain of salt, is to break it up into ROM Tools, Apps (both ported and user-developed), Themes & Skins. I would also put them into a major category that would be consequently named Development and Hacking, and probably move the Networking and Upgrading groups over there as well.
I'd personally also like to see a single forum just dedicated to programming. It's pretty obvious that there's a good cross-section of members who are also programmers, some of which have demonstrated more talent than most other sites can boast. There's a lot of people trying to write programs but are rooting around a lot of other forums which aren't too suited to answer their questions. The other thing is that it might give more inspiration for some of the people who are good at UI and some people who are good with system/functional programming to talk to each other or even work together on apps. Many others have pointed it out, for a site to have 'developers' in the title, it's really strange that there's not even a little conversation about one of the main forms of development.

joel2009 information must be organized..
some things are contradictory in your post. you say "I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part" and "this is a development website". If it's a development website than the development area must be extended, not limited to one sub-forum that contains different kind of stuff.
Also, maybe some of us want to learn from other developers experience.. (see "Development Resources & Tips & Tricks" sub-forum)..
The way how it's in this moment create confusion not only for the developer but also for the regular users. Maybe some developers are interested only on ROM tools. Maybe some users are looking just ROM tools. It will be hard for all of us because this section of the site is constantly growing and contain all kind of stuff (themes, apps, tools, etc).
Organizing the information into sub-forums is A MUST.
+ you can add a new subforum for "Ideas for application" where people can post ideas for developers.
If detailed descriptions are used for each sub-forum there will be less to none confusion rate (additionally someone can write about these sections so everybody will understand..).

Just my humble opinion, but I think they fit well together. The difference is small between the two and it would just require me to check two boards to get the same info.
I say let's hold a vote.

DSF said:
"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
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Click to collapse
I'v been thinking the same for a long time now.

Thats not contradictory at all. The Development and hacking section is for contributers, if you are contributing an app you are developing or in need of help dev, then that is what the section is for. Things start getting more complicated when you are trying to post your own work and there are several different sections you have to swarm though to find the appropriate one. I'm a fan of keep things simple.
If you are trying to follow a specific thread, then you can bookmark it or subscribe to it.
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others.
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The list that is bold when you log on only shows the threads you have not read since the last time you viewed the page. If you are interested in reading everything than you will read on through them.
Here is an example, looking at you list of stuff:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
What if i ported a today plugin, then where would i put it?
This is just a small example but it illustrates my point that things can get messy upon where things go. Keeping one section keeps it simple and easy.

I understand both sides, but it seems that this point will be argued for a while longer, as it has been for the last few months.
I think the biggest problem is there are always themes coming out since newer apps are coming out with the ability to skin them. Personally, I would have to vote with the splitting of the two main sections since it is starting to grow a lot. On the other hand, they do fit together since a theme could be categorized as a "hack". But, the more and more the section grows, the harder it will be to find things. Considering all of the hard work and effort put into to these custom themes, a new section set for those who create the themes would be nice.
EDIT: lol DAMN! I thought the discussion was about themes and apps, my point still stands though.

joel2009 the list is just a suggestion - it may be modified.. What I wanted to underline is that the "Development and Hacking" forum is growing day by day, making harder to find interesting threads.
The faster you organize the information the better. If not, later the forum will grow so much that will be very hard to watch + the job to move the thousands of topics..
TheChampJT is right..

I think the real issue is that most users don't realize the amount of time it takes just to keep the forum as organized as it is. Splitting the hacking & development forum would require us to watch 7 threads instead of one, which honestly is a pretty full job in and of itself at this point.
Joel does a good job of drawing attention to how confusing it will be for users wanting to post new information. I know it's really frustrating to certain users to have to read through a couple pages of threads to find the one they're looking for, but it really is the simplest solution.
I think one issues that has been side stepped is that there really aren't a lot of developers asking us to split this stuff up. It's easy enough, and simple enough for them to use, especially after all the great work done by the Q & A team to clean it up. I find it pretty easy to find what i'm looking for in the thread now.
I think the thing that would help more than anything to simplify things for users would be for all threads to adopt the proper naming of their threads. Then it would be easy to see what threads are themes, what are apps, what are games. Unfortunately, the application of proper naming is very inconsistent.
Ultimately I feel that splitting the forums would cause more confusion, more frustration, and more work, so at this point I think it best to leave things as they are until we come up with a better solution.

Going to keep my post very short, the way XDA is split up is to help users to which commonly end up posting in the wrong sections as it is, the more sections we have the more confusion of posters, then we have the mods who have a hard enough time as it is trying to sift out the "wrong posters" so what was my point again? Lets keep things simple so simple peeps don't post in the wrong sections and the mods don't get over worked for there voluntary position

Thread-specific moderators (for ROM threads)

Hello,
first thanks for this great place! I would have smashed my Touch HD if xda wouldnt exist
I have a suggestion regarding the ROM forums and threads:
As the cookers and chefs are mostly to busy to gather information from the thread and put them in the first(second...) post, it would be really nice if a threadstarter or moderator could assign a normal user as an "thread-specific" moderator (for only the first three posts for example). So volunteers, people very interested in this ROM, could maintain a buglist, tips and hints, fixes and other helpful stuff from the thousand and more pages and make the life for everybody easier.
Its sometimes really hard to find information in the thousand pages. I think a solution like this would help everybody and reduce the senseless spam questions in the ROM forums. All 1-2 pages new users ask the same as people before, and all are getting the answer "Read through the thread, its mentioned 10 pages before" for example.
Whats your opinion about this?

7Bit said:
Hello,
first thanks for this great place! I would have smashed my Touch HD if xda wouldnt exist
I have a suggestion regarding the ROM forums and threads:
As the cookers and chefs are mostly to busy to gather information from the thread and put them in the first(second...) post, it would be really nice if a threadstarter or moderator could assign a normal user as an "thread-specific" moderator (for only the first three posts for example). So volunteers, people very interested in this ROM, could maintain a buglist, tips and hints, fixes and other helpful stuff from the thousand and more pages and make the life for everybody easier.
Its sometimes really hard to find information in the thousand pages. I think a solution like this would help everybody and reduce the senseless spam questions in the ROM forums. All 1-2 pages new users ask the same as people before, and all are getting the answer "Read through the thread, its mentioned 10 pages before" for example.
Whats your opinion about this?
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Click to collapse
Hi,
1. I don't think this is possible with the standard vB software. And I know the webmasters are adversed to applying "patches" unless they really help.
2. There is a problem of trust. Moderators are selected on here to be trustworthy, not to carry out malicious activities and to always be fair. I've seen plenty of people on here become friends and then enimies as quick as they can. Giving many users complete control over a single thread could become problematic. If you're just speaking about allowing users to edit another users thread. I can't see that been too risky - but still Impractical with the forum software.
An alternative, If the ROM cook would like someone to help manage the thread, they should arange before hand to let someone bag a few posts on the thread when it's first started (I know its not practical to existing threads). Moderators can help add posts when needed and remove any
pesky "First" messages someone might inject in the way .
Just my thoughts
Ta
Dave

Yes you are absolutly right, good idea
It would be enough if the moderators could move a post of the "Useful thread stuff Collecter / Maintainer" at the second or third position of an existing ROM thread, or if the creator already plans it when creating the thread. That would be exact the same without editing the board software or applying hacks...

7Bit said:
Yes you are absolutly right, good idea
It would be enough if the moderators could move a post of the "Useful thread stuff Collecter / Maintainer" at the second or third position of an existing ROM thread, or if the creator already plans it when creating the thread. That would be exact the same without editing the board software or applying hacks...
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Well if it's not possible to arrange this beforehand by timing a the time of thread creation, you could indeed ask on of the mods to help you out there. Don't look at me yet though, haven't figured that one out yet

[Suggestion] Thread wiki

It is possible to add a "thread wiki" post below the original post?
Eg in slickdeals, you have a common wiki below the OP that people can add stuff
I feel like threads should have things like that...
OP might not have time to update his/her post with relevant info that an another user can add
It might be difficult trying to look through 100 pages of posts to figure out if someone has a similar problem(or through search), while it is easy for multiple people to maintain a common wiki that they can all edit
EG: http://slickdeals.net/f/4803408-Thi...ted-by-users-like-you?p=51265310#edit51265310

paperWastage said:
It is possible to add a "thread wiki" post below the original post?
Eg in slickdeals, you have a common wiki below the OP that people can add stuff
I feel like threads should have things like that...
OP might not have time to update his/her post with relevant info that an another user can add
It might be difficult trying to look through 100 pages of posts to figure out if someone has a similar problem(or through search), while it is easy for multiple people to maintain a common wiki that they can all edit
EG: http://slickdeals.net/f/4803408-Thi...ted-by-users-like-you?p=51265310#edit51265310
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Interesting idea, not sure how adaptable it would be with the VBulletin software though. It might also be similar in effect to something I hear is going to be rolled out sometime soon, a post rating system so posts with more positive ratings will move to the top, and posts with enough negative ratings will be hidden.
I think though that the OP should either ask the mods to close the thread or hand it over to another user by contacting the forum admin if they don't have time to maintain their thread with important new information.

mf2112 said:
Interesting idea, not sure how adaptable it would be with the VBulletin software though. It might also be similar in effect to something I hear is going to be rolled out sometime soon, a post rating system so posts with more positive ratings will move to the top, and posts with enough negative ratings will be hidden.
I think though that the OP should either ask the mods to close the thread or hand it over to another user by contacting the forum admin if they don't have time to maintain their thread with important new information.
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I mean small details: like "most commonly encountered problems and solutions", that the OP might have time to add or not
For a dev thread, I rather have the dev (most likely the OP) focus on developing and other people helping out in figuring out problems by common users... users can update the wiki on the un-resolved problems so that the dev can see, without having the dev to read the last 3 pages that were newly posted
you can see in the Slickdeals thread... 179 pages of posts... some of them are "useless" in saying "thanks for the deal", while some people have legitimate questions (like "is this phone quad band") that other users answered 10 pages after their post... having a wiki means common info will be presented clearly without having to dig through the thread, and anyone can update that, not just the OP <--- most important point
EDIT: Slickdeals uses vBulletin too, but customized plugins... there are probably open source plugins out there, just trying to dig through
EDIT2: i guess SD doesn't use pure vBulletin plugins for that... maybe some CMS system

paperWastage said:
I mean small details: like "most commonly encountered problems and solutions", that the OP might have time to add or not
For a dev thread, I rather have the dev (most likely the OP) focus on developing and other people helping out in figuring out problems by common users... users can update the wiki on the un-resolved problems so that the dev can see, without having the dev to read the last 3 pages that were newly posted
you can see in the Slickdeals thread... 179 pages of posts... some of them are "useless" in saying "thanks for the deal", while some people have legitimate questions (like "is this phone quad band") that other users answered 10 pages after their post... having a wiki means common info will be presented clearly without having to dig through the thread, and anyone can update that, not just the OP <--- most important point
EDIT: Slickdeals uses vBulletin too, but customized plugins... there are probably open source plugins out there, just trying to dig through
EDIT2: i guess SD doesn't use pure vBulletin plugins for that... maybe some CMS system
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I guess the problem really is that the dev thread should not be used for support, but people insist on treating them that way. I think that there should be a "ROM XXXXX Support Thread" in the device Q&A forums and that is where such questions should go instead. Then there would be no problems with the restrictions since user support questions or bug reports without proper logging, details, attempted fixes, etc. would be moved from the dev thread into the support thread if they were able to post them there.

mf2112 said:
I guess the problem really is that the dev thread should not be used for support, but people insist on treating them that way. I think that there should be a "ROM XXXXX Support Thread" in the device Q&A forums and that is where such questions should go instead. Then there would be no problems with the restrictions since user support questions or bug reports without proper logging, details, attempted fixes, etc. would be moved from the dev thread into the support thread if they were able to post them there.
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even in support threads... who would maintain the massive throve of info that many people would ask? the OP(most likely the dev himself who made the thread), or every user who wants to?
example.... if a lot of people post below us, makes it go into 5 pages... someone on page 3 found a plugin that does what it works.... does it make sense for that info to be posted just below my first post by anyone, or is it on me(the OP) to edit my first post "someone on page 3 found this info"?

This is actually an interesting idea. We are busy adding other new features but definitely will keep this in mind. Right now, we do already have a wiki and there is nothing stopping someone from creating a wiki page while adding their thread, and linking to it, but it would be nice to integrate that directly into the page.

bitpushr said:
This is actually an interesting idea. We are busy adding other new features but definitely will keep this in mind. Right now, we do already have a wiki and there is nothing stopping someone from creating a wiki page while adding their thread, and linking to it, but it would be nice to integrate that directly into the page.
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Click to collapse
yeah, but it's definitely not as seamless as having it right below the original post
lemme see if there are any plugins to "stream" that wiki page into a post...

Came here to request this too. And precisely for the same reasons as the OP.
This would be immediately embraced.
I don't understand the "I'm not sure this would be adaptable with vBulletin" comment since slickdeals uses vBulletin.
http://www.qapla.com/mods/showthread.php/309-Wiki-Posts-for-VB4-by-BOP5-BETA

another vote for this.
i have been following a thread about about the development of 4.4 for the hisense sero 7 pro (randomblame, davepmer and others are awesome)
anyway it has a post count of nearly 1,000 and people come in and try the latest build, or just wanting to ask a question about the latest builds. the same questions get asked over and over. i don't really think its the fault of the person asking since who is going to read 1,000 posts just to see if his/her problem has been discussed.

Home page news

I would like to suggest an improvement. (I assume the subject is manually edited, rather than scripted.)
I suggest that first and pure mentions of devices in news articles link to their wiki page - lots of times I read of New Miracle Device X123 and click, expecting to gain info on what the device is - phone/tablet, looks, true manufacturer, etc. Instead I get linked to the forum and the standard subs - developer, apps, questions, etc that all devices have on the forums and learn nothing except that lots of people posted about it. It seems like a perfect place to use the wiki for a quick overview and picture.
Then, when there is a reference to a detail about the device, a project, configuration setting or such - then link to the proper forum or a particular thread.
Assuming I'm fairly normal, I find I click those 1st links right often expecting general data about a new or unfamiliar device - and always get that first forum - that I could have guessed existed - making the first link (to the top forum) fairly useless, as the detail link will usually be listed below in the article to the thread about the particular topic for the device.
Hope I made sense, thanks for listening!

The problem with that is unfortunately our wiki is horrifically under utilised with most device pages containing little to no information.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....

conantroutman said:
The problem with that is unfortunately our wiki is horrifically under utilised with most device pages containing little to no information.
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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My preferences change in wiki is not being saved even though it says it's saved.
Whom should i contact regarding wiki issues? Wiki admins?
--edit--
Looks like it's a known issue.

Bit of a bump...
It does seem that wiki is a great place for a first notice, and a first link.
While it's not really development, you have to know it exists, etc before you can develop!
Perhaps the first news team can be tasked with an initial entry form that becomes the first paragraph for wiki - manufacturer, release, expected OS, etc.
If news or development got to me I could rough out a form and start....