Develop Bugs

[Possible Solution] To Newbie RTFMs

Have a look at the form here:
http://support.catalyst2.com/index.php?_m=tickets&_a=submit
1. Submit the first page with any option (doesn't matter).
2. Type a few words like "email settings".
3. Notice the suggestions which pop up at the bottom, allowing to you find the solution without even having to actually submit your query, thus cutting down on questions which could easily be answered by the questioner themselves with a little research.
I'm not saying it will be easy, and it may very well reduce the site to a crawl, but you could have a pre-fetch on the articles held in the Wiki which would provide common solutions to a lot of threads which pop up with simple questions.
What might this require?
1. An up-to-date, correct, and well-referenced Wiki
2. Presumably a lot of server horsepower!
What will this prevent?
1. Easily answered questions like "Where can I find links to all the WM6 ROMs?
What will this not prevent?
1. Idiots who don't even read suggestions as they type their question
2. Recently solved problems in threads that get swamped by meaningless posts
3. Posts like "Thanks <insert name>, downloading now..."

Looks Good, BUT...
Looks good, but if you can't get a noob to search the forum using the provided search tools or to even correctly (correctly, being the operative word) google the site, we won't be able to get them to use this form...
Now, I do believe that you are on to something... IMHO, the search function should also include a link to google with the advanced search part already populated for searching in xda-devs... I know that there have been threads with the google links already posted, but they aren't stickies anywhere...
You are on the right track... Maybe all of the more knowledgeable members that are bother by this noob thing (like myself, since I am still a noob...) can simply add a link to the google search function in their sig, it will make it easier for newcomers to the site to locate the information they require...

Sorry, I didn't make myself clear -
The Create a thread, or Reply to thread, message box would have this feature implemented - so even as the person was typing in their mundane question, it would provide a link to the answer right in front of them which they would hopefully click before actually posting their question.
I think the search function on this forum is partly to blame, as any search under about 5 letters simply doesn't work. To make it better there are a few options:
1. Make it search Google by default
2. Make it default to replying with Posts rather than Threads (as some threads are hundreds of posts long)
3. Make it search both the Wiki and the Forum (solved with Google)

IMHO, the search function should also include a link to google with the advanced search part already populated for searching in xda-devs... I know that there have been threads with the google links already posted, but they aren't stickies anywhere...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a google sticky alread. It just so happens to be 3 threads above this one
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304582
1. Make it search Google by default
2. Make it default to replying with Posts rather than Threads (as some threads are hundreds of posts long)
3. Make it search both the Wiki and the Forum (solved with Google)
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Click to collapse
I think you have a valid point Oli. I haev seen many posts with ppl voicing concerns about the search function, and I would tend to agree that it would help if it could be re-structured. Especially with the rate that this site is growing, some search function upgrading would be a good suggestion. However, just like finding any other type of info on the net, its all about your search skills. After spending enough time using the search tools, you find tricks and techniques to narrow your results. Im happy to see this thread, and hopfully the mods will combine their powers to find a way to simplify finding info here.

I am glad that there are ppl here that realize there is an issue with the search function... I also agree that there should not be a lot of stickies, but the BEST place for it, would be in the Search FAQ.... Have any of your read it... It is not that good and as a noob, doesn't show me the best way to implement it... It just says to use the search function... If I were top dog, I might change it a little, just to alleviate some of the darn stupid posts... maybe have it come up as a precursor to registering... Not that everyone will read it, but they will see it...
Just my .02 again... I'm gonna have to get some credit around here... these two pennies are gonna start to add up...

cinlular keyboard customization

after the upgrade it seems that the keys are not in correct place on the keyboard. pl., let me know if there is cab for cingular/ATT customers.

If you search, you will find... there are cab's for 8525 keybaord layout all over the place.. search for WMXL 8525 Keyboard Settings

If you've searched and haven't been successful, I say always look in the WIKI first. You can go HERE for what you need....
Hope this helps,

Here's how I find things:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=298893
You could type in something like; Cingular Keyboard fix
You could also type in; Cingular symbols mixed up
I know you already got your answer,
but, give it a try anyway, it works great!
For example; I wanted to find info on creating my own Custom ExtRom.
So I typed in extrom, and I found exactly what I was looking for.
And I didn't have to start another thread on a question that has been asked before.

Berdinkerdickle;
Thanks for giving this guy a more practical answer. I know that I made things maybe a bit too easy by giving him the place to go, but I just was getting tired of some of the flames, etc being dished out. I agree that many new members don't search enough but also have found that searching is difficult.
I was seeking a solution that would encourage searching but not blow off the need for an answer, however you did a much better job.
Kudos!

I too was having this problem and just now did a search for the answer.. I did find it here although I ran across this flame thread before I came straight to the answer.. thats bad.

Sorry, but I don't see any 'flames' here. The first response was not real helpful, just the usual 'search' although the suggestion for the specific search was given. The second response was to give him the place to go IF his search attempts were unsuccessful. The third response was a more elegant explanation for search(es) with a practical application, and the fourth was a thanks for the third response which was better than the second! I don't see where any flames were thrown nor intended. There are too many out there already to try to find some that don't really exist!!

Hope this helps
Its in the wiki
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index...ermes_Registry
When applying a non-cingular ROM to an 8525 its default keyboard is different than the 8525.
The Fix:
[HKLM\SOFTWARE\OEM\Qwerty]
"Layout"=263177 (decimal)
I thought this site was a forum. If people dont know where to find info they should not have to get the third degree on searching. My wife does that to me. If she has the answer she does not give it to me. I have to find it on my own.It took me an hour to find this. I hope this helps other people with their phones.

Yes, this is a Forum; below is the definition of a forum from the American Heritage Dictionary.
fo·rum (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
1.
a. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
b. A public meeting place for open discussion.
c. A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.
Nowhere is it stated that a forum is where a few people work spend a great deal of time and effort to give many people the easy way to all the answers. In this forum, the answers can be found and new answers to NEW questions constantly being debated and decided. However, if you've been a reader of the threads you would have an understanding of how things get bogged down with new people not willing to spend a little time searching for the answers to their questions that have already been answered. There's the WIKI, The Wiktionery, Individual Threads, The FTP files, FAQ sections, etc. I prefer to avoid flaming new members but when I continue to see the amount of new members who just jump into a thread with a request for help without any 'audience participation', i.e. READING, SEARCHING, I can certainly understand why some members do such severe flaming and end up leaving the forum out of frustration.
BTW, in the WIKI is a Cingular Keyboard Fix cab that would address the issue mentioned without altering the registry. A quick search reveals it HERE
Best wishes

"Development and Hacking" should be splitted

"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards

i would have to disagree myself. i think the section is fine the way it is (all the question threads removed ) If you know what you are after then you just need to search. I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where top ost with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.

First, sorry if the original version of this comes off the wrong way, I just noticed it might read a little snotty...especially since I started typing it before joel2009's post, but it as posted up later it reads like I'm arguing.
joel2009 said:
I think splitting things up will only result in more confusion on the common user's part (not knowing where to post with so many options) and further more this is a development website, not a cache of programs like a freeware website. Whats being developed at the moment will be on top, everything else will fade out behind but still accesible if you know what you are looking for.
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The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others. Examples include:
Kaiser software, which has a lot of postings that apply to several other phones.
Raphael Software/Themes Apps and Software (Diamond), both of these basically cover the same thing. I've seen a number of people make requests or ask questions that are already resolved in the other thread.
The main D&H forum, even if you ignore the little groupings the OP had (i.e. xda releases vs. ported apps), is home to at least 3 very separate postings/releases; ROM Tools, Phone Apps, and Skins/Themes. For a "simple" user who's just trying to watch for themes and skins this is a lot of unnecessary noise. Imagine a Raphael or Diamond owner looking for applications, there's at least 4 groups to watch and 3 of them are kept under specific phones. A new diamond owner won't realize all the stuff they are missing. I think that's more confusing to new users.
My suggestion, to be taken worth it's digital equivalence to a grain of salt, is to break it up into ROM Tools, Apps (both ported and user-developed), Themes & Skins. I would also put them into a major category that would be consequently named Development and Hacking, and probably move the Networking and Upgrading groups over there as well.
I'd personally also like to see a single forum just dedicated to programming. It's pretty obvious that there's a good cross-section of members who are also programmers, some of which have demonstrated more talent than most other sites can boast. There's a lot of people trying to write programs but are rooting around a lot of other forums which aren't too suited to answer their questions. The other thing is that it might give more inspiration for some of the people who are good at UI and some people who are good with system/functional programming to talk to each other or even work together on apps. Many others have pointed it out, for a site to have 'developers' in the title, it's really strange that there's not even a little conversation about one of the main forms of development.

joel2009 information must be organized..
some things are contradictory in your post. you say "I think splitting things up willo nly result in more confusion on the common user's part" and "this is a development website". If it's a development website than the development area must be extended, not limited to one sub-forum that contains different kind of stuff.
Also, maybe some of us want to learn from other developers experience.. (see "Development Resources & Tips & Tricks" sub-forum)..
The way how it's in this moment create confusion not only for the developer but also for the regular users. Maybe some developers are interested only on ROM tools. Maybe some users are looking just ROM tools. It will be hard for all of us because this section of the site is constantly growing and contain all kind of stuff (themes, apps, tools, etc).
Organizing the information into sub-forums is A MUST.
+ you can add a new subforum for "Ideas for application" where people can post ideas for developers.
If detailed descriptions are used for each sub-forum there will be less to none confusion rate (additionally someone can write about these sections so everybody will understand..).

Just my humble opinion, but I think they fit well together. The difference is small between the two and it would just require me to check two boards to get the same info.
I say let's hold a vote.

DSF said:
"Development and Hacking" forum grown and the topics are kinda mixed up.. eg: ROM development tools mixed with Themes, "ported/hacked" Applications, user-made apps, etc etc.
I think that this area should be divised. It's hard to seek a topic. Maybe one is interested in ROM tools (eg: NBHextract, XIP port, dumprom, etc,etc), maybe someone in ported applications (omnia touchwizz interface, asus glide, xperia panels, xperia camera, htc album, etc), maybe others in development resoruces.. and maybe others in applications made by xda-developers.
So, one sugestion is to split create one new category Development and Hacking wich contains the following sub-forums:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
The name of the forums may not be the same.. also, other sub-forums may be added.. This is just a suggestion. This forum really contains valuable information but it must be more organized.
Regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'v been thinking the same for a long time now.

Thats not contradictory at all. The Development and hacking section is for contributers, if you are contributing an app you are developing or in need of help dev, then that is what the section is for. Things start getting more complicated when you are trying to post your own work and there are several different sections you have to swarm though to find the appropriate one. I'm a fan of keep things simple.
If you are trying to follow a specific thread, then you can bookmark it or subscribe to it.
The main problem I think is that there's so much traffic in that single spot that the list of threads marked "Today" stretches into the 5th page sometimes. I'm pretty sure a lot more gets lost and many good threads aren't seen at all. It's made worse by there being a couple of different forums listed under specific models of phone which are obviously resources for many others.
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Click to collapse
The list that is bold when you log on only shows the threads you have not read since the last time you viewed the page. If you are interested in reading everything than you will read on through them.
Here is an example, looking at you list of stuff:
- ROM Development Tools
- Homescreen Plugins (Manilla, TouchWizz, Asus Glide, BatteryMetter, etc)
- Ported Applications
- xda-dev Applications
- xda-dev Games
- Applications Hacking (?)
- Development Resources & Tips & Tricks
What if i ported a today plugin, then where would i put it?
This is just a small example but it illustrates my point that things can get messy upon where things go. Keeping one section keeps it simple and easy.

I understand both sides, but it seems that this point will be argued for a while longer, as it has been for the last few months.
I think the biggest problem is there are always themes coming out since newer apps are coming out with the ability to skin them. Personally, I would have to vote with the splitting of the two main sections since it is starting to grow a lot. On the other hand, they do fit together since a theme could be categorized as a "hack". But, the more and more the section grows, the harder it will be to find things. Considering all of the hard work and effort put into to these custom themes, a new section set for those who create the themes would be nice.
EDIT: lol DAMN! I thought the discussion was about themes and apps, my point still stands though.

joel2009 the list is just a suggestion - it may be modified.. What I wanted to underline is that the "Development and Hacking" forum is growing day by day, making harder to find interesting threads.
The faster you organize the information the better. If not, later the forum will grow so much that will be very hard to watch + the job to move the thousands of topics..
TheChampJT is right..

I think the real issue is that most users don't realize the amount of time it takes just to keep the forum as organized as it is. Splitting the hacking & development forum would require us to watch 7 threads instead of one, which honestly is a pretty full job in and of itself at this point.
Joel does a good job of drawing attention to how confusing it will be for users wanting to post new information. I know it's really frustrating to certain users to have to read through a couple pages of threads to find the one they're looking for, but it really is the simplest solution.
I think one issues that has been side stepped is that there really aren't a lot of developers asking us to split this stuff up. It's easy enough, and simple enough for them to use, especially after all the great work done by the Q & A team to clean it up. I find it pretty easy to find what i'm looking for in the thread now.
I think the thing that would help more than anything to simplify things for users would be for all threads to adopt the proper naming of their threads. Then it would be easy to see what threads are themes, what are apps, what are games. Unfortunately, the application of proper naming is very inconsistent.
Ultimately I feel that splitting the forums would cause more confusion, more frustration, and more work, so at this point I think it best to leave things as they are until we come up with a better solution.

Going to keep my post very short, the way XDA is split up is to help users to which commonly end up posting in the wrong sections as it is, the more sections we have the more confusion of posters, then we have the mods who have a hard enough time as it is trying to sift out the "wrong posters" so what was my point again? Lets keep things simple so simple peeps don't post in the wrong sections and the mods don't get over worked for there voluntary position

Thread-specific moderators (for ROM threads)

Hello,
first thanks for this great place! I would have smashed my Touch HD if xda wouldnt exist
I have a suggestion regarding the ROM forums and threads:
As the cookers and chefs are mostly to busy to gather information from the thread and put them in the first(second...) post, it would be really nice if a threadstarter or moderator could assign a normal user as an "thread-specific" moderator (for only the first three posts for example). So volunteers, people very interested in this ROM, could maintain a buglist, tips and hints, fixes and other helpful stuff from the thousand and more pages and make the life for everybody easier.
Its sometimes really hard to find information in the thousand pages. I think a solution like this would help everybody and reduce the senseless spam questions in the ROM forums. All 1-2 pages new users ask the same as people before, and all are getting the answer "Read through the thread, its mentioned 10 pages before" for example.
Whats your opinion about this?

7Bit said:
Hello,
first thanks for this great place! I would have smashed my Touch HD if xda wouldnt exist
I have a suggestion regarding the ROM forums and threads:
As the cookers and chefs are mostly to busy to gather information from the thread and put them in the first(second...) post, it would be really nice if a threadstarter or moderator could assign a normal user as an "thread-specific" moderator (for only the first three posts for example). So volunteers, people very interested in this ROM, could maintain a buglist, tips and hints, fixes and other helpful stuff from the thousand and more pages and make the life for everybody easier.
Its sometimes really hard to find information in the thousand pages. I think a solution like this would help everybody and reduce the senseless spam questions in the ROM forums. All 1-2 pages new users ask the same as people before, and all are getting the answer "Read through the thread, its mentioned 10 pages before" for example.
Whats your opinion about this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi,
1. I don't think this is possible with the standard vB software. And I know the webmasters are adversed to applying "patches" unless they really help.
2. There is a problem of trust. Moderators are selected on here to be trustworthy, not to carry out malicious activities and to always be fair. I've seen plenty of people on here become friends and then enimies as quick as they can. Giving many users complete control over a single thread could become problematic. If you're just speaking about allowing users to edit another users thread. I can't see that been too risky - but still Impractical with the forum software.
An alternative, If the ROM cook would like someone to help manage the thread, they should arange before hand to let someone bag a few posts on the thread when it's first started (I know its not practical to existing threads). Moderators can help add posts when needed and remove any
pesky "First" messages someone might inject in the way .
Just my thoughts
Ta
Dave

Yes you are absolutly right, good idea
It would be enough if the moderators could move a post of the "Useful thread stuff Collecter / Maintainer" at the second or third position of an existing ROM thread, or if the creator already plans it when creating the thread. That would be exact the same without editing the board software or applying hacks...

7Bit said:
Yes you are absolutly right, good idea
It would be enough if the moderators could move a post of the "Useful thread stuff Collecter / Maintainer" at the second or third position of an existing ROM thread, or if the creator already plans it when creating the thread. That would be exact the same without editing the board software or applying hacks...
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Click to collapse
Well if it's not possible to arrange this beforehand by timing a the time of thread creation, you could indeed ask on of the mods to help you out there. Don't look at me yet though, haven't figured that one out yet

Site suggestion for easier ROM discovery and greater exposure

I'm not very good with MSPaint, but I mocked up something I think could help a lot of people navigate this site a little easier. The search function works, but why shouldn't you be able to see a list of ROMs at a glance? A lot of the development forums here have several sticky posts, and things become difficult to navigate.
When threads that just list ROMs contained in a forum have to be stickied, it shows that a change is necessary because people aren't able to locate the one they're looking for. There are several threads in the same dev forums that have the same keywords, and this makes searching very aggravating sometimes.
Let me know what you think about this mock-up. I know it looks kind of ****ty, but try to see what I was getting at. Instead of drilling down into the forum to find an official thread about a specific ROM, just click the icon at the top of the forum page... or you could put this type of list on it's own page separate from the actual developer forum.

generic.imitation said:
I'm not very good with MSPaint, but I mocked up something I think could help a lot of people navigate this site a little easier. The search function works, but why shouldn't you be able to see a list of ROMs at a glance? A lot of the development forums here have several sticky posts, and things become difficult to navigate.
When threads that just list ROMs contained in a forum have to be stickied, it shows that a change is necessary because people aren't able to locate the one they're looking for. There are several threads in the same dev forums that have the same keywords, and this makes searching very aggravating sometimes.
Let me know what you think about this mock-up. I know it looks kind of ****ty, but try to see what I was getting at. Instead of drilling down into the forum to find an official thread about a specific ROM, just click the icon at the top of the forum page... or you could put this type of list on it's own page separate from the actual developer forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are currenty working on a Dev tool, that will make finding Roms much easier, plus lots more features, so your idea is a good one, just they are already on it.

I don't knock anyone who has an idea, good or bad. At least it shows ppl are thinking and want to share their idea