Develop Bugs

TouchPro2 UMTS Bands

I am in Canada and one of our carriers Telus just released the TouchPro 2
telus is a CDMA carrier, however, released the device as a world phone, quad band GSM and UMTS 2100 3G.
I am new to the GSM world and would like to understand better.
Telus and another carrier, bell mobility are building a 3G+ network that they plan to fire up later this year, the CDMA network will stay for a while and HSPA+ will be an overlay network with no GSM support.
Telus and bell plan to use UMTS 850/1900 bands.
When a company like HTC makes a phone, are the UMTS radio's hardware or software?
Is it possible for a OEM working with a carrier to hide UMTS 850/1900 bands or install 850/1900 bands in a new ROM update, say Windows 6.5 ROM?
It does not make sense to me for OEM's to make multiple versions of same phone, I understand each carrier has cosmetic outer requests, I am thinking of the core inside build.
It would be nice to have both networks in case the initial network build out for HSPA+ has issues.
Help!!

UMTS Radio is hadrware.

GSM/WCDMA(or UMTS, if you will) basebands are all hardware as the last poster noted. However, at the request of a carrier, one of the radios in a dual mode CDMA/GSM device can be disabled(as is the case with the dual mode CDMA/GSM version of the Touch Pro2 headed to Sprint here in the US). It is also [theoretically] possible to re-enable the GSM radio in one of the dual mode versions of the Touch Pro2.
On a side note, I wish the CDMA carriers here in the US would transition to GSM technology. I know Verizon will be conducting LTE trials late this year and early next year so that's a plus. It would be nice to transition to LTE, as well, or at least HSPA+....
EDIT: Actually, many OEMs make multiple versions of the same model device. The Touch Pro2 has numerous variants for each carrier which will sell it.

Well, in this case it's a different build from other Pro2's as it has cdma and therefore a different processor.
As for what it is truly capable of I don't know. Carriers have blocked out hardware functionality through software in the past (i.e. certain famous cases of phones with GPS having to wait a long time before a ROM that would let them take advantage of the GPS).
So maybe it's possible. I don't know if it is in this specific case, someone more familiar with the specific hardware and stuff will probably have to weigh in for a definite conclusion.
Hope so though...

UMTS Bands
Wow,
Thank You for the prompt replies.
I think the Telus TouchPro 2 is the same build as Sprint with Telus customization.
I understand that the hardware radio must be present for UMTS 850/1900 to work.
I am not too concerned about the GSM radio(s), just the UMTS radio(s).
According to the spec, it only has 2100 UMTS band
If Telus and likely Sprint have disabled the radio, is it possible to find out if indead the radio would support UMTS 850/1900 and could a cooked ROM enable those above bands?

seems I responded more or less at the same time as jaekidd
anyways...
according to the msm7600 spec sheet it can have the following umts combinations:
2100
1900+850
2100+800
2100+1700+800
2100+1900+850
Now I personally have no idea how one could check to see what options the installed hardware has and whether they are blocking something.
no idea if a new ROM could unlock those frequencies should they be present or how easy it would be to make a ROM to unlock them (they might need a ROM for a device with those features unlocked on that chipset from which to rip the necessary files/drivers for all I know)
And for the record, I think it might be more appropriate to say that the Sprint version is the Telus version with Sprint custommization (after all, the Telus version has come out first), rather than the other way around
and for the record the msm7200 specs sheet says it is capable of the same combinations but personally I can only remember dual band hspa in HTC's phones (the msm7200a sheet doesn't mention the combinations, just the individual bands)

solsearch said:
seems I responded more or less at the same time as jaekidd
anyways...
according to the msm7600 spec sheet it can have the following umts combinations:
2100
1900+850
2100+800
2100+1700+800
2100+1900+850
Now I personally have no idea how one could check to see what options the installed hardware has and whether they are blocking something.
no idea if a new ROM could unlock those frequencies should they be present or how easy it would be to make a ROM to unlock them (they might need a ROM for a device with those features unlocked on that chipset from which to rip the necessary files/drivers for all I know)
And for the record, I think it might be more appropriate to say that the Sprint version is the Telus version with Sprint custommization (after all, the Telus version has come out first), rather than the other way around
and for the record the msm7200 specs sheet says it is capable of the same combinations but personally I can only remember dual band hspa in HTC's phones (the msm7200a sheet doesn't mention the combinations, just the individual bands)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HTC FUZE (AT&T's Touch Pro) has 850, 1900, and 2100 and I assume AT&T's Touch Pro 2 will, too.

Didn't know that, just the question remians of when AT&T will get theirs out to market.

Help! 3G is not working after Hard-SPL and unlocked TP2

I'm new here and I enjoyed this site very much. I have one problem with my TP2. Somehow, 3G network is not working after I installed Hard-SPL and unlocked T-Mobile TP2 switch to AT&T sim card. Everything is working fine with AT&T's sim card I was able to made phone calls, received, SMS, and web browsing. ATT 's 3G network is available around my home, but I can not get 3G on TP2 instead a EDGE network. Can unlocked TP2 handle AT&T's 3G network? or a .cab file I can download to fix this?

idk for sure but i think t mobile uses a different frequency for 3g from at&t so if they are you are stuck with edge speeds on at&t man sorry

I have the tmobile TP2 and i can confirm from talking with ATT that the phone does support ATT BUT i was unable to use the phone on 3g. The phone DOES support the signals for 3g but am still unable to access the towers in my area. I think the phone may be hard set to look at tmobile towers, is there any way i could reset the device to open up its tower usage? Hopefully i can get an answer but no tmobile TP2 users arent screwed in the US we just need to find a fix

It was my understanding that the tmobile tp2 does NOT have 850/1900mhz 3g on it. It does have aws 1700 for sure. Not sure about 2100mhz though for overseas.

This issue has been covered many times in the numerous AT&T threads on this board.
I'm sorry to tell you that the T-Mobile TP2 hardware radio was limited to using 3G over the 1700/900Hz frequencies, while AT&T currently uses 1900/850Hz only. It's unlikely that any change can be made to the radio software wise to fix this issue.
Just to make things clear the issue has nothing to do with Hard SPL or custom roms.

T-Mobile UMTS 1700/2100 Mhz
T-Mobile 3G runs on UMTS 1700 up and 2100 down. Unless you have a device that runs on those specific frequencies, EDGE is the best you can do with T-Mobile if you opt to run on their service.

ATT offers UMTS or 3G using 850mhz(the old TDMA band) and 1900mhz. While T-mobile offers HSDPA (technically 3.5g part of the UMTS specification) using 1700MHz for uplink and 2100MHz downlink.
Because HSDPA is part of the UMTS spec, it’s backward compatable. However, you have the limiting factor beging that the frequencies the individual carriers use to transmit the data.
Europe and Asia’s 3G runs on 1900/2100mhz. North and south America is supposed to use the (AWS) 3G spec using 1700/2100mhz
ATT didn’t want to wait, like T-mobile is doing, for homeland security to vacate those frequencies and launched on 850/1900mhz instead

ace.app said:
ATT didn’t want to wait, like T-mobile is doing, for homeland security to vacate those frequencies and launched on 850/1900mhz instead
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I heard that t-mobile did not have enough spectrum in many areas to launch 3g in its existing 1900mhz. At&t doesn't have that issue, or as bad.

Im gonna make this real easy for u. The tmobile tp2 will not work on at&t 3g. The 3g bands are different

Let me get this straight - So TP2 is not a true "world phone"?

I'm a little green when it comes to 3G stuff, but please correct me if I am wrong...
Yes, you can put foreign SIM cards in US TP2's but not get 3G coverage in Europe. On the other hand from what I have read, European TP2's (even the unbranded ones) will not work with 3G is the US.
And if I am wrong... can someone please point me to a TP2 that will work on 3G networks in most of the world?
Or does one have to have two TP2's to enjoy 3G.. one for the US, and one for Europe, etc.?

quid246 said:
I'm a little green when it comes to 3G stuff, but please correct me if I am wrong...
Yes, you can put foreign SIM cards in US TP2's but not get 3G coverage in Europe. On the other hand from what I have read, European TP2's (even the unbranded ones) will not work with 3G is the US.
And if I am wrong... can someone please point me to a TP2 that will work on 3G networks in most of the world?
Or does one have to have two TP2's to enjoy 3G.. one for the US, and one for Europe, etc.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where have you heard that a NA TP2 won't work with 3G in EU?
The only limitation I'm aware of is a NA TP2 won't work w/ NA GSM 3G.

Oh SoS said:
Where have you heard that a NA TP2 won't work with 3G in EU?
The only limitation I'm aware of is a NA TP2 won't work w/ NA GSM 3G.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Until someone hacks it

I can't remember where I read it. But someone said if you wanted 3G in Europe, better to get a Euro unbranded model.
So perhaps this is under the assumption that it isn't hacked... not sure.
Slightly, off-topic Q but rather than start a new thread.... once a HardSPL is out for both the CDMA and GSM TP2's... will they effectively be "equal" devoces?
I really would like to pick-up a TP2 in the next few days... I like the VZ unit, but it's CDMA and since I travel quite a bit, really prefer and need more of a GSM phone, but don't like the TMO as no 3.5mm jack.

quid246 said:
I can't remember where I read it. But someone said if you wanted 3G in Europe, better to get a Euro unbranded model.
So perhaps this is under the assumption that it isn't hacked... not sure.
Slightly, off-topic Q but rather than start a new thread.... once a HardSPL is out for both the CDMA and GSM TP2's... will they effectively be "equal" devoces?
I really would like to pick-up a TP2 in the next few days... I like the VZ unit, but it's CDMA and since I travel quite a bit, really prefer and need more of a GSM phone, but don't like the TMO as no 3.5mm jack.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Verizon unit already has international GSM bands unlocked, AND international (2100MHz 3G). If you've been a Verizon customer for 60 days or more you can call them up and get an unlock code for free and use any SIM card in your phone so you can get a cheap prepaid SIM and not pay the high Verizon roaming costs. There's also a small (I'd say around 25%) chance that the NA 3G bands will be found/unlocked, but at this point who really knows if they are there or not.

Actually the Telus CDMA TP2 supports the European 3G bands but not the American ones becuase technically you will be using it in North America on CDMA and outside America on GSM. So its the other way around

It seems that if you have the Sprint TP2 that it won't register at all on US GSM networks, but comes unlocked by default.
On Verizon (which I have) a simple phone call to support they'll give you the unlock code and you're good to go. I use an Orange (UK) Sim in mine just fine in the US and others in other forums have reported that using US SIM's from TMobile/AT&T work fine also in the US.
--chris

TP2 = best 'World' phone I've ever owned.
quid246 said:
I'm a little green when it comes to 3G stuff, but please correct me if I am wrong...
Yes, you can put foreign SIM cards in US TP2's but not get 3G coverage in Europe. On the other hand from what I have read, European TP2's (even the unbranded ones) will not work with 3G is the US.
And if I am wrong... can someone please point me to a TP2 that will work on 3G networks in most of the world?
Or does one have to have two TP2's to enjoy 3G.. one for the US, and one for Europe, etc.?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an unbranded HTC factory TP2, and it works in 3G mode anywhere I take it that has the 3G network... and I travel all over the US/Caribbean and back to EU/UK. Have not found one spot it hasn't worked (inlcduing some of the very obscure Carib countries), and I like the fact that it automatically picks up HS when within range without having to change any settings.
Just have to make sure that your provider gives you a 3G SIM (most of them are these days) and that you have the 3G service enabled on your account in the respective country.
Many people say they can't pick it up yet don't have it on their account, or think that their EU provider will automatically provide it as part of the roaming service... which is not a good assumption to make.

TyTanIc said:
I have an unbranded HTC factory TP2, and it works in 3G mode anywhere I take it that has the 3G network... and I travel all over the US/Caribbean and back to EU/UK. Have not found one spot it hasn't worked (inlcduing some of the very obscure Carib countries), and I like the fact that it automatically picks up HS when within range without having to change any settings.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3G in North America? I doubt that. The phone does not support North American 3G bands. Are you sure it was 3G in North America??

Man, this is all confusing... I swear somebody has to come up with an HTML table of what phones work with what and where and stickify it.

Can people just put this to bed already!!!
The Sprint (North America) TP2 is suppossed to be used on CDMA in the US and GSM worldwide, hence the GSM radio is unlocked for outside America GSM use. This is how it comes default. If that is so hard to grasp, then there is no hope for some, sadly.
As for the title, the TP2 is a world phone, it works in the US (and North Ameria) on CDMA and elsewhere unlocked on GSM. That to me is the true definition of a World phone from a U.S CDMA perspective (and especially moreso as this is the CDMA version).
To put it in perspective, a Sprint customer (in this case, moi) gets the best of CDMA in the U.S and when traveling to visit his sister in High Wycombe in the U.K (like i'll be doing this Autumm) gets to pop in a PAYG U.K sim in the same phone and use it while over there. This phone doesn't get any "worldlier" to me than this scenario!!
Is the O.P attempting to specifically define a dual mode CDMA/GSM-unlocked World phone as not world phone because it's locked by default from doing GSM in it's primary market which happens to be CDMA (and in this case Sprint)?
This is not rocket science folks, it really isn't.

LordLugard said:
Is the O.P attempting to specifically define a dual mode CDMA/GSM-unlocked World phone as not world phone because it's locked by default from doing GSM in it's primary market which happens to be CDMA (and in this case Sprint)?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point taken. It's just that with that same Sprint phone (correct me if I am wrong), you can't travel to Canada pop in a Rogers SIM card and get Rogers 3G.
Wouldn't the phone want to swing towards it's CDMA cousin, Telus or Bell?

mmmhhh86 said:
3G in North America? I doubt that. The phone does not support North American 3G bands. Are you sure it was 3G in North America??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AT&T 3G runs on 850/1900 GSM, the TP2 supports both of those bands, how would it not work with 3G on AT&T in the US?
T-Mobile runs 3G on 1700/2100 GSM bands, both of which aren't included on the TP2, as far as my research has lead me to believe.

Basically while it may be a quad band GSM phone, it is only a dual band 3G device. It comes in two flavours - UMTS 900+2100 or UMTS 1900+850
The 900/2100 version is far more common than 850/1900

.mak said:
AT&T 3G runs on 850/1900 GSM, the TP2 supports both of those bands, how would it not work with 3G on AT&T in the US?
T-Mobile runs 3G on 1700/2100 GSM bands, both of which aren't included on the TP2, as far as my research has lead me to believe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It supports those bands for HSDPA CDMA not GSM 3G
Network 3G EVDO Rev A (800/1900 MHz), UMTS/HSPA (2100 MHz), GSM/ EDGE (850/900/1800/1900 MHz)
This is the Telus version btw

quid246 said:
Point taken. It's just that with that same Sprint phone (correct me if I am wrong), you can't travel to Canada pop in a Rogers SIM card and get Rogers 3G.
Wouldn't the phone want to swing towards it's CDMA cousin, Telus or Bell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"it Depends"
The US CDMA phone operates in 3 modes.
1 CDMA Only
2 GSM Only
3 'Global' (whatever it can find).
If you have it in Global it will generally take the CDMA local carrier over anything else. However, not always. I've had mine switch to GSM for a bit then go back to CDMA. But mine is Verizon and unlocked so it works everywhere in the US and I also have a UK sim card in it. So I'm a little 'different'.
But, in any case, you can tell the phone which mode to use if you want. All upto you.
--chris
(verizon TP2)

here we go again... (tp2 3g na)
"I have an unbranded HTC factory TP2, and it works in 3G mode anywhere I take it that has the 3G network... and I travel all over the US/Caribbean and back to EU/UK. Have not found one spot it hasn't worked (inlcduing some of the very obscure Carib countries), and I like the fact that it automatically picks up HS when within range without having to change any settings."
So, maybe he's wrong. But either way...
You wanna know why this keeps coming up again and again?
(not because we're all dumb and thick headed, which we may very well be)
But,
Because we just have trouble imagining them hardware "band amplifier" hobbling the hardware when it's so much easier to do it somewhere in firmware.
We all know that the less you fiddle with the hardware for multi-region functionality the less you have to fiddle with the production line and fiddling with the production line is the Last Thing a manufacturer wants to do.
Someone even once said that there wasn't room in the Rhodium platform for quad band data support. But now we're expecting the tilt 2 to do just that.
So, all protestations aside, those of us who paid ~700 us clams for this beauty, and who like the kbd layout.
And who have like me (as quite the Early Adopter), forked out for an sx56, sx66, 8135, x7510((quad band data)
Just feel a leetle wee bit of a sense, dare I say it, of Entitlement for the TP2 to be enabled into a fully world wide phone.
So we keep hunting, and digging, and dreaming, and .... posting.....

well here is my two cents i have the original unlocked euro version of the tp2 and all i get in the us it edge. it is really impossible to get 3g in the US (2100) because this version of the phone literally does not have the attena for it. and so that you can see all the different types of tp2s and the technical and physical differences between them here is a link: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacom...&id3=1792&id4=1829&id5=1766&id6=1989&id7=1751

drae1980 said:
well here is my two cents i have the original unlocked euro version of the tp2 and all i get in the us it edge. it is really impossible to get 3g in the US (2100) because this version of the phone literally does not have the attena for it. and so that you can see all the different types of tp2s and the technical and physical differences between them here is a link: http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacom...&id3=1792&id4=1829&id5=1766&id6=1989&id7=1751
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3g in the USA must be on the 1700 band then, as thats the only gsm band that the euro version doesn't support.
Euro version
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS900, UMTS2100
TMOUS version
GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800, GSM1900, UMTS1700, UMTS2100

Anyone know of a good site to order a prepaid SIM card? I plan on using my VZW TP2 in Spain and France. I was also wondering if I should or could disable data and use my TP2 with Garmin XT so I don't get nailed for data usage. Your thoughts would be appreciated...
Mugs

Telus TP2 Radio(s)

Exactly what cellular radios does this phone [Telus TP2] have?
My carrier [Telus] has recently completed their 3G overlay, and I'm still showing "EV".
Should I be talking to them about fixing this, or...?
It was (is?) my understanding that this phone was fully 3G capable.

Can someone help me with this?
As far as I can tell, my phone should support the Telus overlay of HSPA on their CDMA network, however I'm showing "EV" an my network type on the notification bar.
I visited a Telus store, and talked to a rep, who just babbled to me about how my SIM was "registered" as a CDMA phone, and therefore I couldn't use HSPA.
>_>
Thoughts?
EDIT: The rep also fed me this convoluted bullsh*t about how when I'm roaming, I'll be able to be on HSPA networks, so I'll get better bandwidth roaming than on my home network...

Wow no one knows the answer to this?
I've searched, and there's no answer, per se, just descriptions of Telus' technology and the antennae in the TP2, which seems to indicate that the TP2 should be able to get on the Telus HSPA network...

I have a SIM-unlocked Telus Touch Pro2 I bought off Craigslist, figuring it'd be good to go when the HSPA network rolled out (Only four months later!). As I understand it, the telus model can make and receive calls on quad-band GSM frequencies, but only use EDGE speeds for data. Has to do with the firmware for the chipset inside the phone. The only HSPA 3G band the phone can use is 2100 Mhz, which is the bad used in Europe, not Canada. It's a major piss-off, especially when a month ago the stores made this out to be the top-of-the-line phone, perfect for ever and ever.
It would seem that should Telus decide to plug in some firmware upgrades, they could activate the new 3G bands, but why bother? We've already signed away our souls to the company.
Who knows, maybe they'll fix it when they release Windows 6.5 for our rig. Because that's on the top of the to-do list, right?

Well there are new radios that we could flash...would that change anything?

Now I may be misinformed but I think that the Telus version is a CMDA phone with GSM capabilites on some frequencies. I do not think it will work on HSPA in Canada as they use different frequencies (850 and 1900). This is why so many people were waiting for the ATT version to come out as it uses those frequencies.
Remember GSM does not equal 3G.

What I would like to know is whether the distinction between 3G and GSM is on the hardware side, firmware side, or software side. Telus would have you assume it's all the hardware's fault, but I'm not sure on that one.

From everything I have read its the chip in the phone that isnt programmed/capable of doing the frequencies required. It may actually be a second chip but I cant confirm that. Other posts have stated that there wont be a software fix to "unlock the frequencies" needed.
GSM is a cellular line and 3G is a data connection.

I just purchased an At&t Tilt 2 unlocked for use on Telus 3G+ network. The Telus Touch Pro 2 is a CDMA , Quadband GSRM and UMTS/HSDPA 2100. The Telus TP2 will only work with EVDO data on the Telus network. If you unlock it for use with Rogers it will work on GSRM with Edge data. That is why I have ordered the At&t Tilt 2. Unfortunately Telus won't honour my unlimited data plan and say it is only for EVDO and that I have to change to one of their current plans to have HSDPA. Like all of the networks, they get your money one way or the other. I'm pleased that with the Tilt 2 I am free to switch providers here in Canada and still get 3G as well as when I travel in Europe.

[Q] Android GSM Radio

I am on Wind, a new Canadian 3G AWS only network that defaults to (roams) Rogers GSM when the signal is weak. I have noticed that the sensitivity on WM 6.5 seems to be much more better than on Android in that I can select Wind inside my home in Windows but the Phone will not find Wind as an available network on Android. I have not selected "2G networks only". I would have assumed that the Android build uses the same radio software.

It uses the same radio firmware if that's what you mean. Hardly the same at the software level...
Either way with Android you get a choice - GSM or CDMA. You can't flip between (to my knowledge...) while in the OS as you have to change that value in the startup.txt to get either GSM or CDMA service.
I think there may be a way to adjust startup values on the fly, but it's certainly not straightforward as I recall. I'll see what I can drum up, but that is your problem I believe.

Thanks, some more background: Both networks are GSM, one (Wind) 3G on 1700 and 2100 and the other standard north American 2G GSM (850 and 1900). As far as I know the roaming agreement does not allow my phone to use the 3G part of the Rogers network. The phone is originally t-mobile GSM - otherwise it would not work on Wind.
I really do not think that CDMA comes in to the equation.

manfredv said:
Thanks, some more background: Both networks are GSM, one (Wind) 3G on 1700 and 2100 and the other standard north American 2G GSM (850 and 1900). As far as I know the roaming agreement does not allow my phone to use the 3G part of the Rogers network. The phone is originally t-mobile GSM - otherwise it would not work on Wind.
I really do not think that CDMA comes in to the equation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, I misread your post. I apologize... not sure what you would need at this point but I'm not sure anyone else is doing what you're trying to do... Hopefully someone who is chimes in

Android GSM Radio
@arrrghhh
I probably did not state it clearly.
I have a t-mobile (US) Touch Pro 2 that is unlocked. When I use it in WM 6.5 at home I get to select the Wind network as an option. When I use the phone in Android mode I do not get to see the Wind network at all but only the Rogers network that Wind roams on as the Rogers network is much larger than the Wind network. Is the problem with less sensitive GSM radio software or are there some selections such as "data enabled" or "2G network only" that I have not made correctly?

I don't believe so, and I've heard GSM reports what service it is getting from the tower ID - so perhaps the towers you're connecting to are still Rogers even tho Wind probably leases tower space from them...
Unfortunately I don't have this ability, and I'm not sure anyone else uses GSM in this manner - I'll poke around and see if I find anything that is useful.