A few questions... - Touch Pro2, Tilt 2 Windows Mobile General

1) Is the CPU on the Touch Pro2 underclocked?
2) Why in the world does only some Touch Pro2's have 3.5 mm headphone jacks while the others don't? Seriously the CEO's and decision makers of HTC need to get fired or resign, and let me take over. Freaking dumbasses.

I was asking myself the same question actually. It's definitely for the sake of business, they didn't include a 3.5 mm headphone jack in most of the models so that the users who own them would eventually switch to the ones that do have the jack integrated in the circuitry board. It might be a newer revision of the model, but what I don't understand is why the ones that have the headphone jacks are the ones that come with service providers packages. Maybe it's to encourage people to use their services instead of other Service providers packages? Whatever the reason may be, I'm sure it has been done that way to generate more income by following a studied plan or something similar.

Dimitri Stephan said:
I was asking myself the same question actually. It's definitely for the sake of business, they didn't include a 3.5 mm headphone jack in most of the models so that the users who own them would eventually switch to the ones that do have the jack integrated in the circuitry board. It might be a newer revision of the model, but what I don't understand is why the ones that have the headphone jacks are the ones that come with service providers packages. Maybe it's to encourage people to use their services instead of other Service providers packages? Whatever the reason may be, I'm sure it has been done that way to generate more income by following a studied plan or something similar.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop being so paranoid and negative.
The truth is that non of us really know the real reason. This is my guess though:
This thing had been in the plans for a while and at the last minute they started to see everyone clamoring for 3.5mm jacks and wanting them on their units. They were able to get them in to the touch pro units, but not right away and so the first ones didn't have it. Now, we're seeing it in the later ariving units like the US carrier branded phones. Though we don't know for sure, I'm guessing we'll see this in all of the CDMA variants and maybe some GSM.
I'm also guessing that we're seeing it on the CDMA unit first because it was made after the European GSM version due to lower priority. Might only see it on CDMA units.

Related

Touch Pro 2 radio

Hi guys
Followed the slightly concerning threads re the radio disappearing from the specs.
It is now back on the specs at Clove and never disappeared from the Expansys ones.
I called HTC UK support yesterday. They said to me that it was all still subject to change (as it would be officially until the shops get it) but their internal current spec still said it had an FM Radio.
Paul.
If that's what the current internal spec is then I'm pretty dang sure it will have it. That means that it's been designed to have it and removing it would just be removing the chip from the board. The chip is probably pretty dang cheap as it is. Then it would just be wasted space.
Specs don't just disappear from web pages for no reason. The main HTC site still shows the FM radio as not being included, when it used to be there. I'm hoping it will continue to be there, but somebody took it down for a reason, even if it wasn't taken down from all sites.
at this point, if they say it still has it, it likely still does. They have to be manufacturing them in mass by now with it being as close to the release as it is (least outside of the US). T-Mobile/AT&T may have the radio removed tho, it wouldn't surprise me for them to remove features (ie cmos camera). But who knows. Either way, i couldn't care less. I don't listen to the radio as it is. Not to say that others wouldn't want to, but technically, this is a business phone so a radio would seem a bit out of its way.
Personally, i would say, if they included a radio, they should also include a 3.5mm jack to Listen to it on.
That's pretty much my point. At this time, they most decidedly are not saying that it has it, when in February they specifically said on the same page that it was included. I hope it was right then and wrong now, but I have my doubts.
Business or phone phone
I do wish people would stop pandering to this rubbish.
No one buys a highend PDA phone (privately) to use it just as a business / organiser device or just as a fun / media device.
It is fair to say that some people won't mind if a radio or tv-out or gfx acceleration or decent camera or 3.5" jack is missing .... but that isn't a justification for HTC or anyone else not to put these things in on expensive new devices.
Most people I know that have a highend device like the HD or TP2 will probably want at some point to dump some movies to it and play it on an hotel TV when they are away with work because they don't have their Archos or ipod with them. This means that TV-Out and support of embedded gfx hardware should be a given.
Most people would prefer a proper wired headphone jack for wired listening of any description.
Many people find themselves on the train, at an airport or in a break and at some point may like to listen to the news. If you live in the UK or a country where most providers insist on realmedia for streaming, Resco News etc is no good ... you need a decent radio. PDA and phone manufacturers have demonstrated that hardware for this sort of thing is typically on chipset anyway and just needs enabling and exploiting in firmware.
HTC very irritatingly artificially leave these things out which makes the device in complete ... for no good reason other than to force people to either get two devices or feel frustrated from time to time (even if rarely) when they want to use things like the above.
The camera situation is the same. 30fps vga video is common place on SE and Nokia ... Apple and HTC should not be forgiven for not including it (yes ... I know the TD2 and TP2 now have it ... at last) ... also ... yes ... you'd expect if you were planning to take holiday snaps you'd take your Pentax or Canon SLR with you .. but often you want to take adhoc pictures .... why shouldn't they be of decent quality ... the technology is there and in mass production SE and Nokia have shown that it shouldn't raise the cost of the devices.
We shouldn't be so accepting about things like this ... it allows HTC to treat us with some contempt and encourages them to continue to do so.
All these devices they are bringing out ... long after the Snapdragon ... but still no sign of official support ... again ... getting people to buy last generation technology today. Are we forced to ... no ... but given their position in the market ... they still have no viable competition on the WM front ... they are exploiting that.
Sorry for the rant ....
Hope this helps...
Some food for though...
If HTC remove the FM radio, at this late stage (after some devices with it have been released) will they keep the chipset's the same?
If so I'm sure some of the guys on here could get the Drivers for it working again...
If such a project is needed, count me in, I'm missing FM radio from my Kaiser
Dave
Speaking of rubbish...
pgamble said:
HTC very irritatingly artificially leave these things out which makes the device in complete ... for no good reason other than to force people to either get two devices or feel frustrated from time to time (even if rarely) when they want to use things like the above.
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Click to collapse
Yes, I'm sure that this is precisely the reason HTC does these things. Market analysis, purchase trends, customer preferences research - all of these things are meaningless next to the opportunity to make their customers irritated and frustrated.
pgamble said:
The camera situation is the same. 30fps vga video is common place on SE and Nokia ... Apple and HTC should not be forgiven for not including it (yes ... I know the TD2 and TP2 now have it ... at last) ... also ... yes ... you'd expect if you were planning to take holiday snaps you'd take your Pentax or Canon SLR with you .. but often you want to take adhoc pictures .... why shouldn't they be of decent quality ... the technology is there and in mass production SE and Nokia have shown that it shouldn't raise the cost of the devices.
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Click to collapse
Define decent quality. I'm not sure what your gripe is here. Lack of a flash? OK, I can see that. But if you are complaining that you're not getting 30 FPS for your ad hoc videos, then HTC is just not the camera for you. Your priorities dictate the purchase of a different device. That's no reason to suggest that HTC is being intentionally annoying. They are making the decisions that will earn the highest sales for any given device in the markets for which they have seen they can effectively compete.
ajbopp said:
Define decent quality. I'm not sure what your gripe is here. Lack of a flash? OK, I can see that. But if you are complaining that you're not getting 30 FPS for your ad hoc videos, then HTC is just not the camera for you. Your priorities dictate the purchase of a different device. That's no reason to suggest that HTC is being intentionally annoying. They are making the decisions that will earn the highest sales for any given device in the markets for which they have seen they can effectively compete.
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I read HTC somewhere (I forget where) that it will be removed because of battery life performance issues. HTC are still trying to make this a business phone (hence the conference calling and Straight Talk) so it makes sense that a business phone would benefit more from battery life than an FM radio.
Just my 2'cs
Dave
I have to ask this again. Why would a radio chip and software waste battery when it's not on? It just doesn't make sense. Please enlighten me!
any news?
it's weird to see the Radio feature still on the official italian specification web page ...but it's not anymore on the english page
cocoaju said:
I have to ask this again. Why would a radio chip and software waste battery when it's not on? It just doesn't make sense. Please enlighten me!
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Click to collapse
It's Possible the FM radio stuff can cause interference with other devices in such a small space, meaning more power is needed to overcome any distortion.
There might even be a form of idle state it keeps itself in. Take the radio feature on the mp3 player next to me, it doesn't scan through like normal unless you force it to retune. It presets itself stations it can find gets RDS for them and names them and keeps track of it when not using the radio feature and more annoying it will do this when the whole device is in it's standby mode and will do so unless fully turned off.
Personally I believe it's just an oversight when they updated the battery spec on the UK HTC page as mass production is likely to have started and removing it last minuet would have likely been costly.
magius00 said:
There might even be a form of idle state it keeps itself in. Take the radio feature on the mp3 player next to me, it doesn't scan through like normal unless you force it to retune. It presets itself stations it can find gets RDS for them and names them and keeps track of it when not using the radio feature and more annoying it will do this when the whole device is in it's standby mode and will do so unless fully turned off.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand that if it's on standby mode, it may use up battery life. I mean if you leave software running in the background, it will run down your battery as well. So it's understandable.
But if you fully turned it off, it shouldn't kill battery life, cos it's not on, right? So, again, it doesn't make sense for battery life to lower, with or without the radio.
As you said, it could be HTC updating on the battery life spec because they got it wrong the first time round. And they thought the radio is no longer needed on this phone so they take it off as well.
I think this happened to the Samsung Omnia HD (not out till end of June) as well. GSM Arena just took another preview of it and some specs has changed prior to launch. They took the radio out as well.
So anything can happen until everything is set on launch date.
Just thought of a good reason to keep radio for business - GPS traffic data! GPS software use FM radio to receive the traffic data. if no radio, no traffic for GPS software.
Apart from no Radio, I just saw a couple of videos from you tube on TP2 reviews, it looks like the zoon bar is missing too.
I checked HTC's website and their gallery still shows the zoom bar. The videos were uploaded this week as well. So unless they took the video a while back and just uploaded it now, it looks like we are missing more features.
European Version Video Review
Asia CNET Version Video Review
Hope this is my mistake.
I just watched again and on the start of the video, I think I saw a glimpse of the zoom bar but never again afterwards. Maybe it's just so reflective, that I can't see the zoom bar. Maybe it is really me... being too imaginative
european video at 3.36 min, it's there !!!
Ha! You are correct! I saw the glimpse. Super reflective screen makes it hard to see on the video.
cocoaju said:
Ha! You are correct! I saw the glimpse. Super reflective screen makes it hard to see on the video.
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Click to collapse
which icont is it? i cant easily make out what one is the radio

Sprint TP2 confirmed! Pictures included

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/...-sprint-spotted-in-the-wild-mid-june-release/
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187569
all I can say is, WOW! Wish I had sprint right now
Roflcopterrr said:
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/...-sprint-spotted-in-the-wild-mid-june-release/
http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=187569
all I can say is, WOW! Wish I had sprint right now
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Click to collapse
not me. they, as expected, removed the front camera, and i dont really care for the new color/look of it. Im still getting an unlocked one.
Looks cool to me. The back cover looks funky! Shame about the front camera tho.
Lyian said:
not me. they, as expected, removed the front camera, and i dont really care for the new color/look of it. Im still getting an unlocked one.
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Does any US carrier leave the front camera on any of their devices?
I'm surprised there's still no word on it from at&t...
fone_fanatic said:
Does any US carrier leave the front camera on any of their devices?
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Click to collapse
No, because none of them support video calling.
ajbopp said:
No, because none of them support video calling.
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Click to collapse
Any of them can support it. The real reason they don't leave them in is because they don't want video calls lagging up their network. They don't have enough of a 3G foundation in place to feel secure with the concept. As long as the software is available (and it is), we could have it. I don't blame them, but it still pisses me off that I can't have it.
Poke_N_PDA said:
Any of them can support it. The real reason they don't leave them in is because they don't want video calls lagging up their network. They don't have enough of a 3G foundation in place to feel secure with the concept. As long as the software is available (and it is), we could have it. I don't blame them, but it still pisses me off that I can't have it.
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Click to collapse
I wouldnt even use it over 3g, if i were to use it, id only be over wi-fi in hotspots. In all realness, i doubt id even use that camrea much, but i just hate it when i see one device, that has removed features for (what equates to) the same price.
The front camera isn't much of a big deal really. Don't let it stop you from getting the phone. It looks really cool. I won't mind having it but it doesn't support our 2100 3G networks. . I hardly use my fron camera on the HD. The novelty wears off really quicky. Also video calls cost a lot and you need to be on the same network to get cheaper calls. I only used it once to test it out and never used it again. Mainly because most of my friends won't take video calls cos it cost them money. LOL.
Damn, Mid June?? Thats right around the corner! Looks like Sprint is corning the market in June of 2009. Time to buy some Sprint stock.... weeeeeeeeee
Then sell it!!!
Well, with the 2 hottest QWERTY handsets out this June (Palm Pre and TP2), I am sure Sprint will be very popular this summer.
I am soooooooo happy about this. With this being a CDMA/GSM Hybrid I'll get to have my cake (Sprint) and eat it too (the world)!
Hehehhe! As far as video calling goes, do we really need it? No, I mean, who are we going to call that actually has video calling in the US? May be a handful of business users MIGHT have it on a hard line. Engadget is reporting on a June release for the TP2 but (hold your horses, bad news) this FCC doc https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1113590&native_or_pdf=pdf clearly states a confidentiality release date of October 31st, 2009! Weird, huh? I mean, things change but I still think it'll be a Q4 release like originally anticipated (leaked for internal Sprint roadmap earlier)
I suspect that's business as usual, though I don't know for sure. But it would make sense to request that sort of thing for several months past the release date as a contingency for a last minute need for change of plans regarding rollout. I don't see this as in any way restricting a carrier or HTC from releasing the phone before the date stated.
sino8r said:
Hehehhe! As far as video calling goes, do we really need it? No, I mean, who are we going to call that actually has video calling in the US?
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Click to collapse
for me, thats not so much the point as, i just dont like features, useful or not, being taken away from something with out it being replaced by something else.. and sorry, a sprint/t-mobile/att logo isn't an adequate replacement for a camera. Maybe i wont use it, but i always like it when something is there, and not use it, rather than if something wasn't their, and i needed it.
Does anyone else think the release date is suspect? I want some confirmation first from Sprint as it would make no sense to release 2 smartphones like the Pre and TP2 in the same release time frame, they would hurt each other's sales. Also, Palm has been known for business devices, so saying the Pre is consumer based and the TP2 is business focused would not sell it for me...I'm sure hoping this isn't like when people rumored the Pre as early as April and it got pushed back little by little...personally I can't stand my TP any more as I'm having major problems and would do anything to trade it in for a TP2 sooner instead of later (may have to resort to a Pre if the TP2 doesn't truly come in June).
fadywwf316 said:
Does anyone else think the release date is suspect? I want some confirmation first from Sprint as it would make no sense to release 2 smartphones like the Pre and TP2 in the same release time frame, they would hurt each other's sales. Also, Palm has been known for business devices, so saying the Pre is consumer based and the TP2 is business focused would not sell it for me...I'm sure hoping this isn't like when people rumored the Pre as early as April and it got pushed back little by little...personally I can't stand my TP any more as I'm having major problems and would do anything to trade it in for a TP2 sooner instead of later (may have to resort to a Pre if the TP2 doesn't truly come in June).
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Click to collapse
It was confirmed by Sprint, in a roundabout way, when this was first announced. A Sprint employee said a high level Sprint sales rep demo'd the phone, and said the release date was June.
Sprint is apparently coming out with the Pre, Snap, and TP2 all within a few weeks of each other. This does make sense if you think about it, because they are all very different form factors and each is likely to appeal to different sorts of customers (I wouldn't touch the Pre or Snap with a 10 foot pole - Pre has an untried, little supported OS, and Snap has a keyboard design I personally can't stand - But I can't wait to get my hands on the TP2). It's unlikely, I think, that they will hurt each other's sales. If Sprint can generate some real mass enthusiasm across three different phone styles all at the same, it's probably going to be to Sprint's benefit to have all the buzz being around them instead of the other guys.
Marketing guys will tell you it will even be an advantage to have negative buzz ("love the Pre but they are sold out till August! Dammit!"). No such thing as bad publicity and all.
Sprint really needs to get people talking about them, and not Verizon and AT&T. I think this stands a good chance of being a brilliant strategy.
Valicore said:
I am soooooooo happy about this. With this being a CDMA/GSM Hybrid I'll get to have my cake (Sprint) and eat it too (the world)!
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And this is the thing that finally pushed me over the edge. I end up using CDMA locally and GSM on the road, and I have always kept two phones around: this will *finally* put an end to this. 'Cause honestly, it would be hard to justify the purchase absent that: the hardware underpinning the device is nearly the same as my Touch Pro.
goldenu said:
And this is the thing that finally pushed me over the edge. I end up using CDMA locally and GSM on the road, and I have always kept two phones around: this will *finally* put an end to this. 'Cause honestly, it would be hard to justify the purchase absent that: the hardware underpinning the device is nearly the same as my Touch Pro.
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Click to collapse
unless you mean "on the road" as in foreign countries, I think the GSM radio will be disabled except outside of the US according to the fcc filing.
Free country
ckeegan said:
unless you mean "on the road" as in foreign countries, I think the GSM radio will be disabled except outside of the US according to the fcc filing.
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Click to collapse
I so sure the fine folks of the hacking and unlocking communities wont let that go, we should have the best of both worlds in the same country -----ITS A FREE COUNTRY!! HOOK IT UP BARACK!!!!
from what i've learned by poking around the CDMA phones require a different firmware correct? among other small things?
i would assume this means less support since it seems like a majority of the genius's here use GSM phones.
right wrong? just being silly?

Another reason to be glad you got the One X...

The MHL port on the HTC One X is a real MHL port.
Now, you probably didn't think you had to worry about such a thing, but owners of the Galaxy SIII have discovered that it has a fake MHL port.
There's more about this here, but the main take away is that you should avoid Samsung branded MHL accessories as some of them won't work with the real MHL.
Tomaxda said:
The MHL port on the HTC One X is a real MHL port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now, now. The SGS3's MHL port is fine and works as advertised. People are pissed that in order to use it they need to buy a new MHL adapter that's required on the SGS3 and all newer Samsung devices because they changed the design. People that have the HTC D100 MediaLink that no longer works on the One series feel the same way.
And speaking of "ports," until we get USB To Go working, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
BarryH_GEG said:
Now, now. The SGS3's MHL port is fine and works as advertised. People are pissed that in order to use it they need to buy a new MHL adapter that's required on the SGS3 and all newer Samsung devices because they changed the design. People that have the HTC D100 MediaLink that no longer works on the One series feel the same way.
And speaking of "ports," until we get USB To Go working, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was advertised as having an MHL port. There have been 100 different MHL products, shipping 50 million units in 2011 alone, and every one of them is compatible with the HTC One X.
Like all of them, the SGSIII is advertised as supporting MHL, but is compatible with none of them. You consider that to be working as advertised?
And what makes you think that Sammie will use the same connector on future products. They have never said that, and given that they don't feel confined by any requirement for compatibility, they are now free to use a new connector on every successive generation.
As for HTC's proprietary MediaLink, that's bad too, but HTC communicated very clearly with their users so there was no misunderstanding or false advertising.
Tomaxda said:
It was advertised as having an MHL port. There have been 100 different MHL products, shipping 50 million units in 2011 alone.
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Click to collapse
And probably used by less than 5-10% of smartphone owners. I want my team to win as badly as you do but this really isn't that big a deal. And within a couple of weeks you'll be able to find new Chinese MHL adapters that work with the new pin out for $5. You also skipped over our lack of USB To Go which impacts just as big an audience. No phone's perfect and will please everyone equally. Samsung will sell just as many gazillion SGS3's with or without this "expose."
BarryH_GEG said:
...I want my team to win as badly as you do but this really isn't that big a deal...
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Click to collapse
This has nothing to do with 'team'. I'm not even clear what you think my team is (I don't have an HTC One X).
I guess if I had a team it would be consumers and standards.
A vendor releasing a product that still has bugs (if that is the problem with your USB on-the-go) is pretty ordinary. A vendor under-cutting a standard and intentionally tricking their users the way that Samsung has is rather new.
If you think this is no big deal then you must roll over at anything. And if that is people's reaction when a vendor pulls a move like this then I guess they can get away with pretty much anything.
I also don't think it is the XDA way to say that others should just roll over and stop whining. That's the Apple (iSheep) way, not the XDA way.
Tomaxda said:
I don't have an HTC One X... ...I guess if I had a team it would be consumers and standards.
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Click to collapse
Since this is a One X forum and your crusade is consumerism in general, you really don't belong here. There are plenty of real and far more significant issues we're having with HTC regarding warranties and quality and timing of repairs than to take on a crusade we have no investment in. This thread will be closed soon anyway.
BarryH_GEG said:
Since this is a One X forum and your crusade is consumerism in general, you really don't belong here. There are plenty of real and far more significant issues we're having with HTC regarding warranties and quality and timing of repairs than to take on a crusade we have no investment in. This thread will be closed soon anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But what's wrong with my promoting a consumer issue? I have no personal financial or professional interest in this - I'm putting an effort into this because I believe in standards. Is that really the sort of thing that deserves to be shut down?
As for why I put a message in the general forum for the One X it is because a One X owner could well purchase a Samsung MHL adapter thinking that it would work with their phone and it might not (depending on which one they get).
I know that you have more important issues, but every post doesn't have to pass a 'most important issue' test, particularly in the general forum.
I don’t see this as such a big issue. Because in most cases you need to buy a MHL adaptor anyway, so why not get the Samsung official accessory for $30 and be done with it? After all, $30 is not a huge amount when talking about a $700 phone; and its not something most people would want anyway. MHL is a wired connection, so even for those extremely few people who actually have a MHL capable device, adding a small dongle and connecting over HDMI is not going to add any bulk anyway. The only instance I would see this as a problem is if companies start to come up with small portable tablet extensions like the Padfone utilizing the MHL standard. But so far there are no such devices, and if it really becomes a hit, I’m pretty sure Samsung will release another simpler cable adaptor to support the standard MHL interface.
All in all, like BarryH_GEG said , there are far more pressing issues with One X compared to S3 than a small non conformity of a relativity new/unpopular standard (for which there is a working solution = buy the samsung adapter). When I was considering which to buy even though I knew about the MHL issue, I couldn't care less ; not because I don't use it (in fact I do have a generic MHL adapter for my One X), its because it was really not an issue worth considering.
So the feature works as intended? Great, then we don't need a thread for it...
Thread closed.

What are the earbuds that with the G5 in your country this crap too?

I'm pretty okay with all the rest of this phone, however the earbuds have really disappointed me, so much less than I expected from Motorola, they use to bundle better earbuds with their phones back in the days it was owned by Google (and prior to that).
Now they're shipping the Moto G5 with a pair of plasticky chinese rubbish, of which the only positive point is that it fits correctly into my ears, however all the rest sucks, the sound quality sucks, the build and the design sucks completely, the cord sucks... everything...
I don't know if it's only the Brazilian version, but I can buy a better pair of easbuds for about $5 in any store... I'm pretty sure of that, take a look at it, the most shameless and crappy - and the most chinese too, I suspect - buds I ever had...
Any phone Iv even bought the headphones are not very good quality - remember you are buying a phone not some headphones - if they provide high quality headphones the price of the phone will go up. I don't know about you but I would rather have the money I'm spending invested in the phone & not gimmicks that come with it.
Since this phone has a headphone jack you can buy your own quality headphones to use across all your current and future devices
Mine didn't even come with headphones and I paid like USD 320 for it, so feel lucky about it.
Most of the budget moto phones comes with the crappy headphone you received. I received the same with Moto E4 Plus.
LOL
I really do not know why you people are complaining about. You bought a Phone the headsets are a bonus and this happens with a lot of phones. Ex: The cameras from every phones are a joke when compared with professional cameras.
TheFixItMan said:
Any phone Iv even bought the headphones are not very good quality - remember you are buying a phone not some headphones - if they provide high quality headphones the price of the phone will go up. I don't know about you but I would rather have the money I'm spending invested in the phone & not gimmicks that come with it.
Since this phone has a headphone jack you can buy your own quality headphones to use across all your current and future devices
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Click to collapse
What you said is pretty obvious, I already knew that a priori, that is, even if you didn't ever say anything, I would already know it.
It surprises me that nowadays in the internet forums it's like this: you write a post or a rant and someone comes with sideline comments that don't aim at the addressed issue's core. In other words, they answer your question, except for they didn't answer your question. Your comment seems totally irrelevant to the question I asked, seems more like it's attempt on bashing on me?
But maybe you misunderstood my purpose, so let me further clarify the purpose of my question, lest one misunderstands me once again.
I wrote this just because in the past I had other Motorola phones that came with at least regular or good phones, and now they're shipping with this crappy one. It goes all back to the P2K and the EZX eras. I had the Rokr E1, Rokr W5, Rokr E2, Rokr Z6, then the classy Razr V8. Now, this is the first time I buy a brand new Motorola phone in Android times, and having admired the brand for so much time, and having PAID MONEY for it, have you the right to say, be it in the internet, that I'm surprised (not angry or mad about that though :good of how crappy it is that they have included so cheap an accessory with their latest phone, an accessory so cheap that it probably didn't cost them a dollar, one that would have been better not to be included in the pack, IMO.
So point one is: this post is a rant and maybe an opportunity for discussion on the topic, which, as far as I know, are legal modalities in this community.
Point two is just the core of my question, the source of my quenches and doubts, which by the way moved my human nature with the deep necessity to ask other people if they are experiencing the same thing and if they have the same opinion, which by the way is completely legal in this community as well.
So point #2: I wished to know if it was only in Brazil that Motorola were shipping these earbuds, in other words if it was standard practice or not.
Now, as you see, when people ask things they have underlying reasons to do so, even if it - to your very eyes - looks absolutely like they don't.
So take no offense, just as I intend not to take any from you, or from anyone else in the internet. I encourage you to take my sarcasm as cold reasoning, of which the intention is to be a corrective measure, in search of one thing that we have a need for nowadays, that is, politeness in the internet...
XJeFX said:
Mine didn't even come with headphones and I paid like USD 320 for it, so feel lucky about it.
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Woah, that I wanted to know.
Where do you live?
(And indeed you paid a bit more than I did on mine, even if not much)
Pragnan Saha said:
Most of the budget moto phones comes with the crappy headphone you received. I received the same with Moto E4 Plus.
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Yeah, it feels it is standard practice.
I was going to buy the Lenovo K6, don't know how the healthy and active is the developer's community for that device though.
Dam0y said:
I really do not know why you people are complaining about. You bought a Phone the headsets are a bonus and this happens with a lot of phones. Ex: The cameras from every phones are a joke when compared with professional cameras.
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You're answering my question with the same sort of answer the first friend above has done it. Read my answer to his comment then you will understand why I have asked this question.
Goodbye and have a nice day.
Thank you for answering my question
freeZbies said:
So point one is: this post is a rant and maybe an opportunity for discussion on the topic, which, as far as I know, are legal modalities in this community.
Point two is just the core of my question, the source of my quenches and doubts, which by the way moved my human nature with the deep necessity to ask other people if they are experiencing the same thing and if they have the same opinion, which by the way is completely legal in this community as well.
So point #2: I wished to know if it was only in Brazil that Motorola were shipping these earbuds, in other words if it was standard practice or not.
Now, as you see, when people ask things they have underlying reasons to do so, even if it - to your very eyes - looks absolutely like they don't.
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Click to collapse
Yes these discussions are perfectly fine however discussions really belong in the general section but I understand why you may have posted in the question and answer section
Yes these earphones are shipped with UK models too
In actual fact they are probably better than Samsung headphones which shipped with their galaxy phones as they are an even worse & more uncomfortable plastic
Goes back to my point of companies really just include these for testing purposes - to say here's some headphones so you can check all the phones hardware & functionality works. Because what they don't want is someone saying my headphone jack is faulty & they go well did you test it when you purchased it & the customer goes no I didn't have any headphones. Imagine if this complaint happened months after they bought it. In UK law technically its the retailer that should sort it but its a grey area & alot of hassle - after a year & the warranty is gone you have no chance without paying.
I know all that is a bit extreme but really it's the manufacturer saying well we gave you all the tools to test the product to make sure it works so we can provide a high level of customer service.
They may have been better quality in the past however with rising costs & the manufacturers wanting to keep prices low they look at how they can cut costs & remain competitive whilst keeping a quality product. At the end of the day as I said before you are buying a phone so anything else they can cut back on they will.

Xperia refurbishers/"counterfeiters": have they solved the DRM key problem?

I don't know how widely known this is or how many people have this on their radar, but there seems to be a very healthy market out there for "new" or "like-new", once-flagship smartphone models. And it's somehow being successfully filled by operations that, as far as I have been able to deduce, manage to collect used smartphones en-masse (from where? e-waste collectors/recyclers? buying them off of the original manufacturers -- perhaps as discards from their repair departments -- for $cheap$? unclear), they then take out any still-working internals/guts from the units they've collected, fabricate brand-new external casings (of the same material as the original product...so, glass, metals, plastics, etc.) that can almost pass for the genuine article even under close scrutiny, re-package the working electronics (mainboards, etc.) in those new casings, and then even go to the lengths to make counterfeit packaging for these re-manufactured phones that LOOKS like the original manufacturers' retail box for that model, shrink-wrap them, and then (usually) turn around and sell the phone as "new".
These guys are all over eBay and AliExpress (& similar outfits). I was quite stunned when I first ran into this, and realized what was going on. You mean there are enough people that will buy these, and at the prices that they're asking for them, for this to be profitable and worth doing at scale? Amazing.
It's hard to call the entire result "counterfeit" exactly, since there are enough original components in what gets shipped. Honestly, I'm not sure what to call them. But one of the problems is that, as amazing as the work of these refurbishers is, many (most) are being more than a bit deceptive when they go out of their way to re-create the original retail packaging and then list them as "brand new in box / old stock". That's a straight-up lie. (Also, many of them come packaged with very obviously 100% counterfeit accessories, like chargers and earbuds which are made to look like the original OEM accessories *externally*, but which absolutely are not original under-the-hood.)
They don't only deal in Sony phones, but Xperia models do seem to be a big seller for these guys, and I had a couple of Z5 Compact samples pass through my hands a couple of years ago...I got curious and wanted to see for myself what one would actually get if someone were to purchase one of these. My takeaway from this was that it's truly amazing how much attention they pay to certain details on one hand, while they simultaneously cut obvious corners on the other. The back glass wasn't original on either, but it was EASILY the best non-OEM Z5c back glass replica I've ever seen (99.9% of the ones you see listed on eBay -- even the ones that purport to be "original" -- are utter crap). The plastic shell/housing was IMMACULATE and with zero scratches/gouges/markings of any kind, as if they managed to sweet-talk Sony into letting them have the original injection molds...the texture was perfect, the color was 100% spot-on, etc. But the earbuds and charger included in the box were garbage (e.g., the charger was labeled as a genuine Sony QC2.0 model, but the label printing was all smudged up, it got SUPER hot, it felt much lighter and hollower than the genuine article, and I tested it and it NEVER went into Quickcharge mode...counterfeit all the way around), the printed literature that was included didn't look at ALL like what Sony includes in their boxes, the card stock they used for the box itself was thinner, and there are issues with the printing on the box (again: counterfeit).
Anyway, one of the things that struck me was that both of the phones still had their bootloader lock & original contents of the TA partition intact. It got me thinking: hmm, I wonder what the odds of that are?... Not everybody unlocks their bootloaders, of course, but amongst Android users, and perhaps especially among Xperia owners, I get the impression that it's not exactly uncommon. At the same time, preserving one's TA partition -- assuming it's even possible on your specific model -- is knowledge that's obscure enough and fiddly enough to execute on that most people who unlock their Xperia's bootloader probably don't even bother...and not only because of the relative difficulty, but also because they probably don't even realize it's a thing. I'd be shocked if most simply didn't Google "xperia bootloader unlock" and then click the link to the official Sony web page at the top of the results that walks them through how to do it. So if I were a betting man, I'd wager that of all Xperias out there with bootloaders that have been unlocked by their owners, easily the majority of them have permanently lost their DRM keys.
Could it be that these refurbishing shops have somehow found a way to regenerate the contents of the TA partition for the models they remanufacture? It seems hard to believe that they could do this without access to the original Sony root signing keys, but...?
For the longest time, when it came to Xperia flagship models sold by these guys, the Kitakami device family was pretty much where they seemed to have stalled out at, as far as what the newest models were that they were selling. But over the last couple of years, I've seen Tone, Yoshino, and even Tama devices of this caliber now flooding the market. I'm super tempted to pick up, say, an XZ1 Compact that's been refurbished in this way, just to see if it is as good as the Z5c samples I've seen were. But in addition to potentially just providing us with access to tons of cosmetically-flawless stock of XZ1c at somewhat-reasonable prices, I have to wonder if this also provides at least a glimmer of hope that it's *possible* to truly restore all of the software on these models to 100% from-the-factory state (complete with bootloader lock, recomputed DRM keys, etc.). I'd sure love to know where they're finding all of the phones they're rebuilding, what exactly (if anything) the software side of the rebuild process entails, and if they *do* have access to special knowledge or tools, how they acquired them...
If anyone out there has bought one of the reman'd XZ1 Compacts, I'd love to know what your experience has been like.
Here is an interesting Youtube video I found by one of these outfits (perhaps the main one even?), showing them going through a QC checklist on a Z3c post-refurbishment but before being packaged up. It's very interesting...the protective plastic with the incorrect "Xperia Z3 mini" text is very clearly not the same as the original (one of those areas where their attention to detail is less impressive...and interestingly, both of my Z5c samples had the *exact same diagram* on theirs and *also* said "Xperia Z5 mini"), but you can also see a reproduction phone barcode sticker that is laid out to look like what Sony would print and stick on the original retail box.
I think unlocked phones are *very* uncommon.
I've unlocked mine before DRM key backup solution was available. Not really missing those keys TBH.
Indeed incredible that they just seem to recreate the outer casings. It involved making new injection molds and whatnot, although in China that's not that expensive nowadays I think. Especially since many Chinese companies make it their business to produce counterfeit products and probably can do it very efficiently.
As for DRM, I'd be surprised if more than 1% of consumers unlock their bootloader, so I guess it's not that surprising to get them locked from such sources.
Got myself a XZ1c (G8441) from eBay. It was listed as new. The phone itself looks good and seems like new.
It came with UCH20 charger (AC 0061-BR).
Included headphones are MH410c.
Charger and headphones work well, but they have really cheap feel to them. I'm pretty sure they are knockoffs.
Also the user manual is definitely not original Sony manual. Just some generic pictures and text.
I purchased a brand new XZ1c G8441 and everything about it was A1 till my carrier shut down the 2100mhz 3G band and the phone revealed it's true identity as a SO-02K and no longer would make or receive calls. The seller will not respond to my emails so I have no idea as to the history of the phone, but I would be none the wiser, (and totally happy) if the network had not changed. I have been caught with 2 other phones in the same scenario, where they were working and presented as global phone and they all stopped working on the same day.
Which carrier do you have? The conclusion that it's not a legit G8441 feels like an odd one.
Some carriers (I'm looking at you, AT&T) will only do VOLTE on certain phones - even though it supports it.
I've also had very spotty reception in different places, and I'm 99.9% sure I have a G8441. I 100% get LTE on some streets, and on others only 2G.
One of my understandings for a very clear distinction is the existence of NFC on the phone. The SO-02K doesn't have it, nor will it have the stylized N on the back panel. The G8441 will. Mine has it, and I've seen Android recognize it, even though it's not something I normally use. Does yours?
While I suppose it's possible someone took a SO-02K and put it in a G8441 case to resell, the chances of that (and profit, given the work) seem extremely small.
Which might suggest it's carrier issues instead of hardware ones - as does the fact that other phones had similar problems.
Hi, All the things you have questioned are valid questions. My suspicions that the phone is not legitimate was arrived at by multiple components of information. Firstly the fact that the XZ1c no longer works on the Optus network and my XZ1 G8341 still works suggests that the XZ1c does not have the 900mhz band. Secondly the XZ1c is identified as a SO-02K when connected to Sony Xperia companion. Thirdly in the service infounder software the phone identifies as "Docomo=LTECA-user" The XZ1c has the N on the rear cover although I have never been able to get it to work. There is a high likelihood of the XZ1c having a new case as all the phones I have purchased recently that stopped working on calls, all present as new, however, the firmware on the XZ1C is global firmware and the phone presents itself in nearly all ways as a G8441. I had 2 Xperia XZ3s that both had the same firmware, one stopped being able to make calls the other still works. I am 99% sure someone has worked out how to make these phone present as global phones until the hardware restrictions tell the truth.
tonsofquestions said:
While I suppose it's possible someone took a SO-02K and put it in a G8441 case to resell, the chances of that (and profit, given the work) seem extremely small.
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There seems to be a massive amount of "refurbished phones" now on ebay and Aliexpress, that present in every way as new, so it would seem that putting old phones in new cases is the new market that many sellers are jumping on.
Ah, interesting. Yes, if it's presenting to some things as a DO-02K, then that seems possible. Now I'm tempted to check mine. Which is the "service infounder software"? My computer can't run the Xperia Companion.
It's possible the re-casing phones is a thing. I was just surprised people would do it for such an old phone, and that cases would even be findable still. But it's entirely possible I don't know what I'm talking about here.
You get to the service info menu by typing in *#*#7378423#*#* into the keypad on your phone, it will then come up with Service info and Service tests. Service info has a sub menu "software info", The XZ3s that I have where one works one does not, both show in service info the same model and firmware and software. but if I check the IMEI they are 2 different models PM-1150-BV and PM-1155-BV, The 1155 says that NFC is not available in the test whereas the XZ1c has the NFC as testable.
Ah, right. I recall that menu. I've always had trouble getting in to it on my XZ1c. I enter that code, but it rarely pops open, even though other ones like `*#*#4636#*#*` work just fine. I never understood why, and figured it was something with my ROM.
tonsofquestions said:
Ah, right. I recall that menu. I've always had trouble getting in to it on my XZ1c. I enter that code, but it rarely pops open, even though other ones like `*#*#4636#*#*` work just fine. I never understood why, and figured it was something with my ROM.
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It works on my XZ1c, but it is not instant, and can take 10-15 seconds to appear. The XZ2C despite what some say about it, is a better phone in my opinion. the screen is better, more responsive and the phone is generally faster. I just purchased a couple of Samsung S10e phones as the 3G has taken a nose dive in performance for the phones I have that still work. Can take 20 seconds for a call to initiate after pressing send
I did a little more digging, and it's a ROM thing. My ROM doesn't even have the APK, and it won't install since it's missing some xperia library or other. I'm guessing you're stock, or something built on it. That explains why I haven't been able to open it for ages...
Just received from Ebay a new G8441 model from China (13 days to Spain).
It's a real G8441!! and have a 20 band confirmed with NetMonster and always have a LTE 4G.
I also checked Service info/Software info: GLOBAL-LTE4A-user. PM-1061-BV
I also did a factory reset, and it's still G8441.
My main phone is a XZ1 compact for 5 years, and i decided buy a new one, because eco in calls, and gps sometimes works sometimes not.
The new one is exactly the same phone. The only difference is the display, it's not the same, it's a little bit darker, but who cares.

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