*** I WANT YOUR SERVICE initiative *** - Windows Mobile Software Development

*** I WANT YOUR SERVICE initiative *** - Windows Mobile Software Development

Yes, we can!

Ok we have one recruit.
Let's hope for more.
(I esp. wait for mr. TouchLockPro guy - ...TLP as CMP ***SHOULD*** be service)

i have to say after reading this thread it does make really good sense especially if your like me who keeps a messanger running all the time be it beejive or im+ and also call firewall so getting those programs to run as a actual service that would be good so i know that there running all the time

cooker point of view, with 64 mb mem device(max 33-34 mb mem free) - just thinking aloud..
Something that has to run all the time, should be service!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
..it may be just module cooked into rom, too, you know..no ram usage, still process though..
but - how many processes do you need at once, people...
btw,
and 32MB for them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so we can load i.e. 50 mb of services maintaining 32 mb mem space for processes then?
just asking..
"Cannot execute whatever.exe"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, but not beacuse of "32 processes at once" reason.
are there really users, that have 32 processes launched on their ppc's at once?
cannot just "quit" a service
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, modules again..no mem footprint.
Then you have modern devices that from the factory come loaded with things you want to use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol, things i do not want to use - we are cookers because of that.
people are using custom roms because of that.
and these 32 processes are already half "eaten"...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so 1/2 still left..
btw one more thing:
what about battery life time vs many services(lets say not especially good written ones)?

All my devices hit the 32 process limit pretty soon.
I definitely welcome a cook's point of view, but this cannot apply to everybody.
Something that must run all the time, must run all the time. Be it a service or a process or a cooked module. In fact you can have a service as a cooked module. That's not the point.
The point is overcoming an issue that Windows Mobile has.
A real actual problem that all "more than basic" users face sooner all later.
We have devices with great potential (my TP certainly has) that are limited by stupid 10-15 years old limits.
Let's not take the side of young Bill "640Kb should be enough for everyone" Gates, or people that said some years ago that "IRQ is not a problem"... well history taught both of them otherwise.
Personally I strongly suggest devs that want to make something that must run all the time, to take a hard look on services.

This is a very interesting topic, which I did not know of.
Why are the builtin programs of a phone not packaged as a service by the manifacturer?
Then the remainder programs can use the other 32 processes
If TouchLockPro is only packaged as a service, this will be only 1 process less.
I see also a lot of cons for services. Debugging/developing is much more difficult.
And I am also not sure, if there is a UI related to the service, if that is still a separate process (not background task). As I read the articles, the UI related applications use the service events for doing their job. So for TouchLockPro this would be a no-win, it still needs a separate process. So no gain from that perspective.

Services, esp. for WM which are always dll, interact with their environment using various calls.
Having a front end, as long as it is used to set various bits and pieces (like in your TLP) that are then stored for the dll to use, is no problem. Your config front end will be a process of course, but not one that you keep in the background, will run only when needed.
If you talk about your popup window with the six buttons, I am sure you can do that too.
On purpose, one of the links I included above talks about SPB that has already moved all their "backbone" apps to services - and as you know SPB apps use everything... config screens, today items, pop-ups, you name it. Indeed everybody that has SPB software installed, will see in the proper task manager, just a few SPB services installed and no process, as many SPB products as you have. In fact I bet this has allowed them (or at least helped them) to have their famous integration between their products.

Hi.
Just a tip. Debug isnt complicated. Just attach the debugger(Visual Studio) to services.exe and you will be able to debug. Its a similar procedure to debug a today plugin (attaching to shell32.exe).....
Dani

NLS said:
All my devices hit the 32 process limit pretty soon.
I definitely welcome a cook's point of view, but this cannot apply to everybody.
Something that must run all the time, must run all the time. Be it a service or a process or a cooked module. In fact you can have a service as a cooked module. That's not the point.
The point is overcoming an issue that Windows Mobile has.
A real actual problem that all "more than basic" users face sooner all later.
We have devices with great potential (my TP certainly has) that are limited by stupid 10-15 years old limits.
Let's not take the side of young Bill "640Kb should be enough for everyone" Gates, or people that said some years ago that "IRQ is not a problem"... well history taught both of them otherwise.
Personally I strongly suggest devs that want to make something that must run all the time, to take a hard look on services.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have only done some ROM cooking (1 Pass/9 Fail) but I can say that this is a great topic especially once you deal with UI replacing or enhancing today plugins which consume memory like nothing else such as PointUI's Home 2 and HTC's Manila 2D. Software As A Service is the future!

Hi
After two days I managed to configure commmgrpro to run in dual mode, as a service or as a process. I thought It was going to much more difficult. If someone needs help please let me know.....
Dani

Well since I am beta testing the thing and works really well, I can only say "why didn't everybody do it like that already!" (i.e. for apps that it fits - read: programs that run all the time).
You even did it in record time and that option that switches it back to being a process... fantastic!
So people ask Danny for help, you can all do it!
(erm... I hope this didn't sound bad for Danny's programming skils hehehehe)

danielherrero said:
Hi
After two days I managed to configure commmgrpro to run in dual mode, as a service or as a process. I thought It was going to much more difficult. If someone needs help please let me know.....
Dani
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, congratulations!
Could you add some short tutorial explaining how to transform an app to service?
Regards,
Joubert

joubertvasc said:
Hi, congratulations!
Could you add some short tutorial explaining how to transform an app to service?
Regards,
Joubert
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that. Once I get better at C++ this would be quite good to know.

Sure
On monday I will give detailed explications. Basically
1) Your program lives attached to services.exe
2) You cant configure it to run on startup because it wont be signed (except if you ve certificate) so windows will refuse to load it with all the signed drivers and sservices. You ve to run a small program on startup (\windows\startup) that will load your service (ActivateService api)
3) Create some registry keys under HKLM\services defining your service(where is you dll, your pefix, description, order, etc).
4) You ve to create a DLL implementing 3 functions (init, uninit and iocontrol)
5) The key is the xxx_init method. You should create and launch a thread because that function should return quickly or services.exe will unload your service because you re a slow boy .
6) that thread should do what your WinMain function does. Generally will initialize your program and tipically loop to process windows messages (getMessager, TranslateMessage, DispatchMessage).
7) The uninit method should finish your program. Be careful to free all the memory allocated. In a normal program if you do memory leak on exit program windows will recover it. Here not. If you start/stop your services many times and you dont clean and destroy all your objects/heaps then services.exe will grow and grow.
Seach the function activateservice in msdn help. Its the door to a clear documentation about services. And of course, ask me what you need
Greetings
Dani

...we'll be waiting...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms938094.aspx

I heeded your call!
ReRemind: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3532553
Notifies you by playing WAV periodically if you have missed calls, voicemails, or reminders awaiting your attention.
Implemented fully as a service.
Designed to replace apps like Best Reminder.
Oh, it's free too! Very early alpha. Probably buggy.

So as a user do we just use a cab file to implement the programs?

Thanks THX!
Addicus I don't understand you.

Related

MY|MESSAGES

Hi,,
a few weeks ago, I made and give away the program MY PHONE which allows you to preview your last phone and SMS on Today Screen.
I updated this program finally, today. Stay a freeware. But I stopped to write it more. It's still here myphone.
Just because I made a new program MY|MESSAGES with much more improvemented features and stability. And with SMS auto-reply with pre-defined text.
It's here mymessages, and this program is a shareware with 7 days trial.
Here's brief descriptions:
This program displays on Today Screen, your last phone calls, SMS and email messages.
Additionally, it allows you to reply to SMS sender, without the needs to open the Inbox dialog.
Program features:
- preview phone calls log
- preview up to 5 your email accounts
- preview SMS account
- preview ActiveSync account
- show/hide any account independently
- show/hide list of message by tapping the title line
- show/hide details of every mesage independently or together
- show/hide battery, memory and external card status
- quick reply to SMS sender with one of pre-defined text
Program settings:
- select the number of messages to display from 1, 3, 5 or 10
- select only the today's messages to display
- select the name or number/email to display
- show/hide fonts shadows
- show/hide the standard icons
- display the red title line if the last phone call is missed
- display the red title line if the last message is unread
- blink the title line (and icon) if the status changed
- define up to 4 auto-reply text with up to 100 characters
- select the SMS number format - change this setting if you get message: "cannot send SMS", because it depends from your cellular network preferences
Program specials:
- if the last phone call is missed, the preview of number is displayed automatically
- if the last message is changed or unread, the preview of sender name and subject is displayed automatically
- if the one of above happen, the icon beside the line changes to the red picture
- tap any message's sender name will display subject text
- tap any account title line will hide the list and all details at once
- the menu displays preview of your own pre-defined SMS reply text, only if you tap on SMS message
- tap the resources line changes between MB and percentage values
Program requirements:
- PPC2002 or Windows Mobile Phone Edition (Second Edition too)
- 60kB of free memory
The Trial Version works 7 days without limits. Red message "shareware" will display every 5 minutes. Then auto-reply and preview of details will not run.
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Menu changes dynamically:
Settings are simple:

STAY AWAY!!!!
STAY AWAY!!!!
I highly suggest not to touch any piece of software this guy publishes!!! he's extremely unreliable, doesn't support his users, abandons projects days or weeks after he publishes them, has tons of bugs which he doesn't fix, he rather play with his features than fix bugs. I was one of many who paid about $30 for his "Profiles Seriously" or whatever it was called, it was packed with bugs which were never fixed.
This guy is a joke as a software developer!!!
STAY AWAY!!!!

please
mr. new-to-image
I'm Janusz Gerszberg,
just check the newest PHONE PROFILES SE version 7.0.
and firstly test this MY|MESSAGE software before you say anything.
I dont see any bugs. as many my customers.
and please do not stay anonymously.
if you have opinion.
:x

For a reference of this guy's previous "success" in the software industry, check this thread and see how many complaints are posted from users, many of which also paid $30:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=5169
Who's to say this new software won't display similar "syndromes". The fact if Mr. JGUI, you've more than proved yourself to be unreliable and an amateur, so you pretty much deserve any criticism, and as for my anonymity, it's my god given right on the Internet, and is entirely irrelevant to the objective criticism I post here.
Pissed off about my post?? Damn good, so am I regarding the $30 I paid for your piece of crappy software and the endless time I've spent on the forum with other members complaining and asking again and again for you to fix all the bugs, while you were showing off your latest "features", playing with them like an infantile instead of fixing the bugs we had, like a serious developer should have done. :evil:
You've got no-one to blame but yourself, you created your own reputation, now live with it!
Therefor I stay by my previous warning: STAY AWAY!!!! Don't give this guy any money for his so called "software", if he wants to give it out for free like Zendrui's marvelous PocketZenPhone (a fine example of how software SHOULD be written) then fine, but don't pay for it!!!

very good

Qtek2020 said:
very good Software
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

After reading the tread new_to_imate mentioned, I can imagine he's utterly reluctant to any new software written by JGUI.
I for one cannot imagine why a developer who asks money for software he wrote does not fix bugs faced by a number of his customers. Just the fact JGUI cannot reproduce the bugs these customers face does not imply he shouldn't care about it at all. Instead, he should find a way to reproduce these bugs, on way or another, or otherwise simply return money back!
Having said that, on the other hand I do not understand why people hand over their hard-earned money when they are able to try it out for a certain period before paying for the full version. However, if the shareware version works flawlessy and the full version contains bugs, then JGUI should fix them a.s.a.p.
I tried both Phones Seriously and Zendrui's PocketZenPhone and this new MY|MESSAGES, and I must admit I couldn't get Phones Seriously get to work properly. PocketZenPhone works like a charm, and it is free too!
MY|MESSAGES worked perfectly too, but a pricetag of $12,85 is WAY to high for the given functionality...

AAARRGGHHH !!!
How do I uninstall "Myphone" ?? It is not what I want or thought it would be but do you think i can kill it and remove it ?
The file myphone.dll will not die !!
What a POS !!

marcuskeeler said:
AAARRGGHHH !!!
How do I uninstall "Myphone" ?? It is not what I want or thought it would be but do you think i can kill it and remove it ?
The file myphone.dll will not die !!
What a POS !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you try unchecking the MyPhone plug-in in the Today Screen settings? This should normally unload the DLL, so that it can be deleted.
Cheers
Daniel

Yup--JGUI has pissed off his customer base. Not only on this board, but others around the Internet and on Handango as well.
Give up JGUI--you should have listened to your angry customers by fixing your bugs and stop "playing" with your new features.
JS (no hiding here)

i second that one
Yea... I was just browsing posts (looking for new ways to screw up my phone) and ran into this one. I vividly remember this MORON and his "software development" skills.
This is one guy whose software I DEFINITELY won't try.
Peace.

i'm also going to stay away from jgui's software. yesterday i was unchecking the my|phone plug-in in today screen settings. right after clickinig 'ok' i got my first (and unintended) hard reset on my xda2 :-( and now i am re-installing all the fine stuff i had installed before and restoring my personal data.
i don't like having software-caused hard resets without my permission. the accidental hard reset was (in my opinion) caused by the installed my|phone 1.4 but i will surely not install the 1.5 (that was the reason for me trying to de-install 1.4) and not at all this new stuff my|message.
this experience is very annoying for me but it would be more annoying if i had payed some money for the software.
so jgui, before you try to earn some money by your software please get it stable and reliable or clearly point out that you only offer unsupported versions (where nobody would pay any cent for, i guess).

guys,
I did not implemented in my software any hard-reset feature.
And because Pocket PC has WM_HIBERNATE inside, this is not possbile
that some software make hard-reset due conflicts inside there.
So please peter, your hard-reset was not by my fail. be serious.
PEOPLE.
I give away free trial versions of all my software. So please try, you dont like - you dont have to pay. and use.
but dont say "it does not work at all" because many people use it successful with no problems.
of course I'm sorry for any problems, and still I made many fixes resolved problems which users reported to me.
this is my final word in this forum thread.

I to have got a hardreset from My|Phone.
It´s FULL of bugs, and not just a few but many!
I will never use Jgui´s software again, until he has a good rumor as a reliable
programmer, and not just a showoff as he is right now.
I looked around for an alternative to My|Phone, and found TodayPhone.
I bought the program, and it works flawlessly without any bugs!
They also released a new version of it, just a week ago and it added a
few new features and small fixes...
Jgui should learn from others! :roll:

I did not implemented in my software any hard-reset feature.
And because Pocket PC has WM_HIBERNATE inside, this is not possbile
that some software make hard-reset due conflicts inside there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, right. I got a message, tapped on the new message to display the short preview of it. Then it frooze, stood there for a few seconds. And then hardreseted...
Im eager to hear the version of it not beeing caused by My|Phone.

I give away free trial versions of all my software. So please try, you dont like - you dont have to pay. and use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair enough and a nice idea. However, if you can't remove it if we don't like it, or the bugs, that's just NASTY !!
this is my final word in this forum thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You promise ?
Did you try unchecking the MyPhone plug-in in the Today Screen settings? This should normally unload the DLL, so that it can be deleted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea, did that with no use, still can't remove it. In the end I renamed it and removed it after a reset, but it still won't leave my "installed progs" list now. Grrrrrrr !!!!!
At least I haven't experienced the hard reset problem, yet.

I also can confirm that my XDA rebooted when I attempted to uninstall MY|PHONE.
This guy should focus on learning real development without bugs, before ever starting to customize his forms for Windows mobile 2003 SE !!!
Considering we are beta testing his so-called software, that he does not listen to people wills and that the sofwares are bug-factories, I think *he* should pay us for that bag of ****.
You want a good software try PocketZenPhone.
Works almost flawlessly and when there's a problem it is fixed before you knew what happen.
And, it's free
You want a good today plugin about your missed calls and so on, try PhoneDashboard.
http://www.pocket.at/pocketpc2/phonedashboard.htm
JGUI has stolen most of the concept behind this nice piece of code that rocks (it's 14.99$ and I believe it is worst it)

Myphone.dll
marcuskeeler said:
AAARRGGHHH !!!
How do I uninstall "Myphone" ?? It is not what I want or thought it would be but do you think i can kill it and remove it ?
The file myphone.dll will not die !!
What a POS !!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also had this problem but also had a memeory leak that, surprise, surprise, went away once I renamed and deleted myphone.dll. Definitley will avoid softwate from this amateur in future.

this is my final word in this forum thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Keep the day job!!!

Interesting reading this - i installed My|Phone on both my XDA and XDA 2 - getting rid of it on either was a complete nightmare (not to mention the problems it caused). IMHO you need to be very careful about installing software on your PPC, as one dire bit of code can kill it so darn easily.

[Android Questions and Answers] Android General Questions HERE Please

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Android on your Windows Mobile HTC Device...
Supports Blackstone, Diamond, Diamond 500, Fuze, Raphael, Raphael 800, Rhodium, Tilt 2 & Topaz
This opening post should have most of the FAQs for XDAndroid (XDA Android on HTC)
In addition, you can post questions, thoughts etc here... and other users can help you out!
Please remember that XDAndroid is 'generic'; that means it runs on multiple HTC devices, but can behave a little differently on each one of them. So for instance, sound might work really well on Diamond, but not so well on Blackstone etc (just a theoretical example!)
You should also remember that this project is in continuous development, so not everything is finished or perfect... there is a LOT working, but quite a bit not working too, and some stuff 'kinda' works if the wind is blowing in the right direction ;-)
F.A.Q
Are the Android releases available in a ROM?
No, Android is not yet available in a ROM format.
Currently Android is installed by using a clean SD Card, and booted from there.
It is booted by running a special application called 'Haret.exe' residing on your SD Card which will terminate the Windows kernel and boot into Linux/Android.
It can't easily be run from ROM because a) it's too experimental to risk putting in ROM and then killing a device and b) WinMo does some hardware initialisation that isn't documented, but is needed before Android can run.
When will it be available in a ROM?
No time soon. Folks are working on it, but you'll need a lot of patience before it (if ever) arrives
My SD Card doesn't seem to work, why?
Most SD Cards are working, but if you the 'waiting for SDCard' message, you should try one of these fixes (and please let us know if it works)
Fix 1: Format your card with this tool http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
Fix 2: Edit your startup.txt file and add these red entries to your cmdline:
set cmdline "lcd.density=240 msmts_calib=0x395.0x3c9.0x79.0x77 clock-7x00.a11=500 msmvkeyb_toggle=off pmem.extra=1 gsensor_axis=-2,-1,3
msmsdcc_1bit msmsdcc_fmax=14000000 msmsdcc_nopwrsave"
Fix 3: Tell your wife / girlfriend that you are about to make some modifications to her phone... change the ringtone and steal her old Class 2 SD Card to use with Android. She will never discover what you have done, and if she does, you'll be able to use Android to send texts to your former girlfriends ;-)
Where can I download a release?
There are a number of Android releases (all at varying stages of development). Use the search function to locate one, or try these:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=732362 (Standard XDAndroid for multiple HTC Devices)
Both come with very clear instructions on how to install
What features are in a release?
Generally, it's very difficult to detail them, unless there is a significant new feature (in which case, that will be very well advertised!). Usually it's minor speed improvements, bug fixes etc... and sometimes, new bugs are introduced (so bear that in mind)
How do I turn off, or reboot Android?
In earlier releases, you had to pull the battery or press the reset button, in newer releases, you can hold down the 'end call' button and see a menu.
How do I suggest features?
Before you even think about it... ask yourself ONE question... "Do I really think I'm the first to have suggested my idea?" and then ask yourself "And what are the chances of it being read and implemented before all the other issues are fixed?".
If you still feel it wise to ask for a feature.... go ahead. Don't say you weren't warned.
My question starts with the words "When will..." or "When is..." etc
See above, the same applies. Stuff will appear when it appears. Do you really think you're the only person dying to have ROM support, or power off, or stability etc?
Why doesn't the camera work?
It's not yet supported. When it is, it will be announced.
Why isn't GPS working?
GPS should be working fine, it's a relatively new addition ( May 2010 ) but works well outdoors. Please allow time for the GPS to obtain a 'fix' (location).
My battery doesn't seem to last long, why?
There are many reasons... first Android is not yet fully optimised for power management (so it's not YET as good as WinMo), secondly, the battery status is highly problematic for most users (don't trust the capacity Android tells you, it's simply up and down a lot, and highly inaccurate)
Does WiFi work?
Yes, it's working for most people, suspected to cause slight heat, definitely drains the battery faster than WinMo. Some users have reported freezes when switching WiFi off (quite common problem)
Does Audio work?
It should be working fine, but Audio can have issues on some devices from time to time. Even with the very latest XDAndroid kernels.
I keep hearing 'popping/clicking' sounds from the speaker?
This is a known annoyance on some devices, believed to be related to power management switching the speaker on and off (not confirmed), it actually seems worse in silent mode (ironically). If you experience this, you're not alone... most users do. When a fix is ready, it will be announced here.
I can't wake up my device, why?
Deep Sleep is an issue for most people. Sometimes the device WILL wake up from a deep sleep, but sometimes it will not. If you can't wake it up, reset.
Is GPRS supported?
Yes, it works (but you MAY have to input your operator/carrier APN)
Is 3G working?
Yes, works for most, although some users are having trouble with Vodafone Netherlands.
Is SIM PIN Code working?
It's supposed to be working, yes, but if you have ANY troubles please DISABLE SIM PIN in WinMo (SIM PIN works on the SIM, but you need WinMo UI to disable it)
Is GSensor working?
Yes
Is Bluetooth working?
Seems to be in a high state of flux, so you'll just have to test it on your device, and find out
.
Is 3D Supported?
OpenGL ES 1.0 is supported on some devices (Blackstone, Diamond, Raphael). Topaz and Rhodium do not support 3D
Can I connect via USB?
Yes you can, but will NOT operate in mass storage mode. You can charge via USB and you can debug, but forget accessing your files by it.
Is the Headphone Socket working?
It's being worked on as we speak, but you MAY need to activate it with a special command (in very recent releases, you shouldn't have to):
For USB headset, add the following line to startup.txt...
snd.force_headset=1
For 3.5mm headset, add the following line to startup.txt...
snd.force_headset=2
You MAY have to make a call for the settings to actually be activated (a real pain), but that's how it is so far!
'Application (xxxxxx) is not responding: Force Close or Wait' keep appearing on my screen!
Click wait. I do not know the precise reason for this, but from what I can gather, it COULD be related to the slow speed of the SD Card causing the app response times to JUST be a little too slow for Android's liking, thus causing the message. This seems to happen more after bootup or wakeup when the device is busy doing stuff in the background.
I am having trouble with ringtones, why?
This is believed to be caused by the media scanner failing (due to discovering some filenames with none English characters). The best option of all is to use a CLEAN SD Card. But, if you insist on hosting other files on the same SD Card, you MUST make sure they have English character filenames.

Reserved
Reserved for faq 3

Reserved
Reserved for faq 2

Good idea. once thing that needs putting at the top.. WAITING FOR SD CARD.... The amount of questions is staggering.... it really wastes time and space

I give up
People STILL insist on starting new threads for ONE question.
I just don't know what's wrong with some folks... you try and help, but they don't help themselves

How to gain access to #htc-linux irc?
I can only be listener, how can I talk ?
Thanks

I wonder how many Touch HD users would be willing to pay for Android 2.1 ?
I guess the idea would be that you could start a fund to try and entice people who work for HTC and Google to come forward (anonymously of course) to help push things forward.
You could have milestones, with each milestone (once proven to work 100%) with a price on it's head.
I mean if enough people with the Touch HD were willing to contribute, we might end up with a significant fund, enough to entice the people you need.
I'm not saying the people who are hacking it at the moment shouldn't continue, it just makes sense to me that people who are in the know at HTC and Google might go out of their way to help for a bit of recompense.
Logicalstep

Logicalstep said:
I wonder how many Touch HD users would be willing to pay for Android 2.1 ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
count me in

i keep getting an error saying haret can no be oped either it is no trusted or onef the components cannot be found.
i have managed to get it rnning once bu it was looking for .
hope you guys can help
thanks slaming

gilie said:
count me in
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
this is for 10 characters

Isthere going to be an update for apps?
I noticed that all apps aren't fullscreen is anyone going to make an update to make the apps go fulscreen?

TheBrilliantMistake said:
I give up
People STILL insist on starting new threads for ONE question.
I just don't know what's wrong with some folks... you try and help, but they don't help themselves
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well maybe this thread will end all that. lol... maybe not... at least it will stop one or two of them.

wilmens said:
I noticed that all apps aren't fullscreen is anyone going to make an update to make the apps go fulscreen?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read more carefully...
You will find your answer.
CLUE: LCD Density

Logicalstep said:
I wonder how many Touch HD users would be willing to pay for Android 2.1 ?
I guess the idea would be that you could start a fund to try and entice people who work for HTC and Google to come forward (anonymously of course) to help push things forward.
You could have milestones, with each milestone (once proven to work 100%) with a price on it's head.
I mean if enough people with the Touch HD were willing to contribute, we might end up with a significant fund, enough to entice the people you need.
I'm not saying the people who are hacking it at the moment shouldn't continue, it just makes sense to me that people who are in the know at HTC and Google might go out of their way to help for a bit of recompense.
Logicalstep
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think there are enough HD users who are interrested in this,, it sounds like a very good idea to me count me in 2!

I've stickied this thread and merged it with a number of others. Any queries on Android should be directed to this thread

Interested YES but how realistic is this?
I would love to have android on my HD but asking people from google and HTC to develop this is for both google and HTC like shooting in your own foot. I guess they rather sell us a new phone instead of lengthening the use of an existing phone they have sold already.
Do not get me wrong, if they want to do it, I am game, just can't see it happenening. We're depending on the XDA community to get this to work. Maybe we should all donate to the developers here, so we'll get results sooner. They have come so far already in a relatively short time.
Just my two cents,
JP

setting and updates
The android development is going fast and there are often new realeses from http://htcandroid.xland.cz/
If I am just trying out a new kernel from http://glemsom.anapnea.net/android/htc-msm-android/ no setting are changed.
If an new realese is out, I do not know if I have to delete all old stuff and replace it with new realese.
Where are all my setting and apps stored? Apps are ok, but are there any registries or something elsewhere?
I use partitioned sd-card

Fallen Spartan said:
I've stickied this thread and merged it with a number of others. Any queries on Android should be directed to this thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Muchos gracias!
I do like a tidy mind... it's a sign of sickness! ;-)

TheBrilliantMistake said:
Muchos gracias!
I do like a tidy mind... it's a sign of sickness! ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny I always heard that a clean desk was a sign of a sick mind.......and my desks a mess!!

"Waiting for SD Card" error
Now i use transcend class 6 8Gb
it get this error
i had try to fix in but can't
What card i shoud get to make my HD can run android.
(and what class is run best)

WP7 offers no Copy & Paste? Look again

Bing.
That is the answer. Bing.
Download the Bing app and install it on your WM6 phone.
I like what I see. Keep it up M$ - WP7 team - You rock!.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}

MS has already announced number and email and web address detection in WP7. And it already exists in WM6.x
So what's your point? Bing is not new, nor is that feature.
The feature I would like to see most from Bing is Voice control for the entire WP7 OS.

What I am saying is that it does "copy" and "paste", apart from picking up the address and Phone number for US(at least). It does not copy and paste at pixel level. That is all.

What in the world are you trying to say?

Great example of why you actually need copy/paste, thanks. What should I do if I want to email the address?

vangrieg said:
Great example of why you actually need copy/paste, thanks. What should I do if I want to email the address?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just click on the underlined email address and you'll go to the email app with the address already filled in.
What is copy & paste at the pixel level?

I don't see the underlined email address on the screenshots, sorry.

I've had enough frustrations with OneNote Mobile not having Copy/Paste. Now a modern phone not having it is just ridiculous. I use this function all the time-if not every day then every week for sure. Everyone, including Microsoft seems to have forgotten about note-taking. So they have One Note without Copy/Past and Word Mobile without it either? what?! Hello!

vangrieg said:
I don't see the underlined email address on the screenshots, sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The screenshots are Bing for WM6.x not for WP7. Supposedly this functionality is more advanced in WP7. My guess is that the address would be detected by the OS and options would be available to you to act on that address. Don't know for sure, but that's how it was explained by MS.
I WM, if someone SMS'es a phone number to you, it is detected and you can perform actions on it such as calling the number. That is far more convenient than C&P that number then loading the phone dialer and pasting the number in there.
Only in Office-type apps do I see a need for copy and paste. I believe they said C&P is implmented within those apps.

WhyBe said:
The screenshots are Bing for WM6.x not for WP7. Supposedly this functionality is more advanced in WP7. My guess is that the address would be detected by the OS and options would be available to you to act on that address. Don't know for sure, but that's how it was explained by MS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be more advanced than WM6 but it'll never work well. There are just too many ways to write addresses - what if I send you an email in response to a question about where we should meet, and I'll reply - "coffee place on corner of main and franklin"? And the meeting is going to happen, say, a month from now? How are you going to save this address from my email? Will your smartlinking recognize it? No freakin' way. Don't delude yourself by repeating these mantras.

vangrieg said:
It may be more advanced than WM6 but it'll never work well. There are just too many ways to write addresses - what if I send you an email in response to a question about where we should meet, and I'll reply - "coffee place on corner of main and franklin"? And the meeting is going to happen, say, a month from now? How are you going to save this address from my email? Will your smartlinking recognize it? No freakin' way. Don't delude yourself by repeating these mantras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, that's a good one, but who's to say you can't attach an email to a calendar item or contact? Personally, I would like to be able to do something like that over C&P.
I'm not making excuses for no C&P, but there are more than one way of doing things.

WhyBe said:
Well, that's a good one, but who's to say you can't attach an email to a calendar item or contact? Personally, I would like to be able to do something like that over C&P.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Look, it's not like I prefer C&P to "smart" stuff. Of course smart stuff is better. The problem is that it's impossible to do in a way that'll cover all scenarios. I can come up with examples forever (like, what if there's a typo in the URL, like users here sometimes post deliberately, because they aren't allowed to post links - what the heck are you going to do with that?). And sometimes that could be a real pain in the neck. Like I encountered once with a pre-3.0 iPhone - an email contained a link with directions, and there was no way to click it, and no C&P to the rescue. Sure I didn't die as a result, but I wasted 3 hours looking for the damned place in the middle of nowhere. For every example you can probably come up with a solution, but there will be another example that'll require another solution etc. That is the whole point of C&P - you can make those 80% core use cases easy with smart stuff, but then you add something trivial and easy like C&P and that'll take care of everything else! It's just not an "either... or" situation, and that's why Microsoft's excuses are just lame.

I have to agree with you, but if MS were under a time constraint and had to choose between smart linking and C&P, I'm glad smart linking came first. C&P will show up in due time. In the meantime, you can go to the school supply section at Walmart and buy a copy and paste toolkit (pencil and paper)

Walmart announced like 5 times that they're entering Russia, but never got the nerve to actually go ahead and do it.
Anyway, congrats on getting to the WP7's target audience. Guess you're not using Outlook Tasks either, huh?
Wish I could be there as well, because I love many aspects of this new OS, and I'm rather optimistic about the prospects of getting access to some serious native APIs in WinCE via jailbreaking, which hopefully will be done via lowering the privilege thresholds rather than having to do a privilege escalation hack (which will open the door to pirating apps and therefore will be chased by Microsoft's updates).

vangrieg said:
Anyway, congrats on getting to the WP7's target audience. Guess you're not using Outlook Tasks either, huh?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tasks really isn't useful enough for me. Too much data entry to achieve nothing. Maybe if it were tied in with the phone dialer, calendar, contacts, GPS awareness, etc, I would actually use it.

Thought so.
Tasks are reminders essentially, they're more of an alarm thing than a calendar thing, if you look at just phone use. They are a very different thing when you use them on a corporate Exchange server, where you can assing them to somebody, track progress, get reports etc.

^^^ Yeah, I've never been able to put it to good use in my daily life.

vangrieg said:
It may be more advanced than WM6 but it'll never work well. There are just too many ways to write addresses - what if I send you an email in response to a question about where we should meet, and I'll reply - "coffee place on corner of main and franklin"? And the meeting is going to happen, say, a month from now? How are you going to save this address from my email? Will your smartlinking recognize it? No freakin' way. Don't delude yourself by repeating these mantras.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not? Isn't that what progress is all about?
There was a time when professionals/geeks could not understand how an OS could work without command line instructions. But now we have it. None of the smartphones have command line instructions.
There are still folks (apparently of European descent) who cannot believe that an automatic transmission can work in 95% of scenarios as good as a manual. How wrong they are.

chiks19018 said:
There are still folks (apparently of European descent) who cannot believe that an automatic transmission can work in 95% of scenarios as good as a manual. How wrong they are.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not the 95% that's the problem. It's the other 5%.

Shasarak said:
It's not the 95% that's the problem. It's the other 5%.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rule#1
Never develop a program based upon exceptions. That is poor decision making.
Program to take care of the 95% (the meat) of the requirements. And do it perfect.
Eg. Folks who buy a minivan based upon the 5% chance that they will need to haul 9 people for about 15 times a year. Crazy.
Same for people who buy a Truck so that they can haul a Christmas tree once a year.

[SENSE][WM][WIN] Manila & Windows Mobile Developer Interest Poll?

I'm trying to gauge interest in developing manila/sense tabs, I'm looking for:
1. people interested in working on the facebook tab
2. people who want to make other tabs
3. people who are app developers who want to tie into tabs
4. we also need some people comfortable doing window apps
(I think we need help getting started with the Manila Kitchen GUI tools - currently command-line). There is plenty of guys who have worked on the tools and know tons about manila, just need a framework in which to tie into.
Please state if you are expert or beginner or willing to learn.
I think in most areas, support can be given to most to get them started (even if it's not your area of expertise) and will probably prove a good learning experience.
Now, just need to work out how to make this a poll...
OK, you can select more than one option at time:
- Expert can be considered Expert/Intermediate skill, i.e. you've made something and it works quite well.
- Beginner would be someone who has done small tweeks or done simple programs.
Ahh, forgot window app developers, in this case, register your interest (if you are), in the TouchFLO/Manila/SenseUI social group (a great bunch of guys who helped me from knowing nothing about sense):
Project: Manila GUI Kitchen Environment.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=223

Links are not working for me :/

I'd be interested in working on a Phone tab. something that included not only a call history, but some dynamic icons that showed (at the very least):
Missed calls.
Voice mail.
SMS/MMS
Email
It's amazing to me that this was on earlier versions of Manila/TF3D but isn't on the newer versions. This entire concept was supposed to be designed for a pda/PHONE converged device, but the phone side of it has been weakened on every upgrade.

AdamiX said:
Links are not working for me :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll ask the group admin about it, perhaps you have to join as a member first...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/group.php?groupid=131
Trident said:
I'd be interested in working on a Phone tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can point you in the right direction if you need it, my method for working with manila at the moment, is decompile everything and then use a good search tool to find the kind of code I need. Seems to work quite well and you can find some interesting functions/features, I've also found using the registry is quite handy for experimenting since you can test out calling different apps with different arguments and also jumps to sense pages (which are internal URLs). Also it can give you a view of values which are being used internally.
So far getting interesting results on the poll!
Looks like a good mix of people which is great!
1. Those interested in taking the facebook tab further, I'm just working on a few bits at the moment for it (trying to tie in the last bits of HTC function), but will happily pass it on when people want me to. [I released it much sooner than I planned, but felt mean waiting any longer]
2. Those interested in learning about manila then have a look through my tutorials and that will hopefully get you started (I was a total beginner too when I started them). Please let me know if there are bits missing or bits which don't make sense etc, it's aimed at people who have done a little programming or at least get the general idea. If it's not clear enough then an entry level tutorial would be welcome (I've avoided too much click here, type this type detail because there is too much to explain in one go).
(leave feedback on the tutorial thread)
3. Those interested in developing manila and wm apps for using tabs, I'm hoping to build a "Custom Manila Interface Tab" which will ultimately provide an API type interface for apps. Will probably need a lot of work, so once I've done a basic proof of the concept, which will be very simple and populated via registry keys (i.e. simple list display which can be populated via a normal app) I will then open it up for group development.
4. Those interested in WM app development, hopefully with the new tab it will be easy to get started with some basic ideas and try them out. As the new tab (or it can be used as a sub-page) develops we will need to know what kinds of things we want to display.
i.e. for the facebook tab I can see this being used as a simple way for a external app to list notifications, comments and all kinds of information.
5. Windows application development, let me know if you can get on the group, I really hope that once given a framework a GUI can be put together. The mode9Editor is an excellent example (I think the author is on the group) and the CMD line kitchen is another amazing tool which brought together all the other fantastic tools (again I think most the original authors are there). Given a good start with a solid base, the GUI could become a very powerful tool!
-------
Developing wm is much easier than working with the manila files, and even HTC tend to tie into dlls/exes quite often to do the leg work, but it doesn't appear to be consistent (each module does things slightly differently) so a direct API would be a massive task. So hopefully an interface tab will bridge the gap, it'll probably provide a good point of reference for useful manila functions too. With the addition of a good GUI editor, I'll look forward to having fun making some really amazing apps (no not a fart selector app...).

Great thread meltwater, you may end up being the driving force of a whole new Manila experience

smeddy said:
Great thread meltwater, you may end up being the driving force of a whole new Manila experience
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the guys before me have been that (would have been no hope without the tools), but hopefully we've got some interesting ideas on the table!

Excellent results on the poll.
Here is an update of what's currently happening:
1. Facebook Tab
I'm currently continuing development on the tab myself, since it is still providing me with useful knowledge on working with manila. It serves as a good driving force for me to try out more stuff.
[MOD][SENSE2.5TAB] Basic Facebook Tab - Developer Thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=663494
2. Custom Manila Interface Tab
I should be able to start work on this once I've learnt enough from doing the changes on the facebook tab. Currently my understanding of manila isn't quite good enough to tackle this yet, it's a big job particularly when the manila code isn't that easy to work with when there is no api.
The concept here is to make a basic tab where the content can be defined by a normal windows mobile app. This should allow many more tabs to be created, without specialist knowledge of manila code.
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
Something similar to this, but populated by an external app.
3. Manila/Sense Kitchen GUI
The group still needs someone to help kick off the project with some help in building the basic framework for the application. I really hope that this can be achieved, moving the whole process into a graphical app will really help with dealing with the difficult editing of the manila files particularly when defining the graphical components.
Please feel free to give feedback on what you think about my plans. Also if you want to get started on some simple(ish) stuff, there's bits in my tutorials etc.
Ok, trying to get a working development environment for windows mobile, is quite difficult if you don't have a full copy of Visual Studio. For now I will use a trial version, but after I'll post/link to tutorials on how to do it without Visual Studio and some initial steps for Windows Mobile development.
http://www.codeproject.com/KB/mobile/WiMoSansVS.aspx Is a good starting point...

Hi everyone,
Thanks for filling in the poll. There are plenty on here who would like to know how to get started etc with manila, windows mobile development etc.
Short of writing a "how to" which covers everything, which I don't have time to do at the moment, what do people need/want to know to get them started???
This thread can be a simple Q&A section if people need help with the initial steps...

I would love to help but I have too much going on for now :/

This thread may not get noticed but since I started it to talk about and get developer interests I will post here anyway.
Since I've released the latest version of the facebook tab I have started work on my 2nd Tab Project. (Still developing the facebook tab v2.0 too).
The new tab will work along the same lines as Custom Manila Interface Tab concept but for now I have a specific application in mind. Hopefully we can keep this one open and the basis of the tab can be extended and reused to form other tabs working on the same principles.
So what do I need?
Well I have the very basics of the tab working, so I need some windows mobile developers to assist with creating a supporting app which will feed the data to the tab. They will need to handle xml data and potentially HTTP GET requests (I guess), we can go as fast or as slow with it depending on the developer(s) (I've got some ideas on how to start off slowly just like I did with the facebook tab, so beginners would be able to do it, they just need time and willingness to learn). I might start writing it myself but my time is limited and it would be nice to have this tab open to everyone (unfortunately I get too attached to my code/ideas when I've been working on them too long so want to avoid getting in too deep with that part - that is what happened with the FbTab).
What is it?
Not quite ready to announce what the tab will be but I've carefully chosen a good project.
What now?
PM or post here and I'll get back to you.
I'm not sure yet how this will work, but probably create a google code project so that anyone can contribute. Will create a developer thread for the project and once things are up and running a release thread to handle the releases/support etc.
Ideally, this project will be open as possible and allow new developers to have a go. There is plenty which can be done, by all ranges of skill levels. It would be excellent to have a wiki attached to the project which explains how it is put together etc, would be great to provide a stepping stone for future developers to get working with windows mobile and sense.
Also need suggestions on where to host the project, GoogleCode, CodePlex etc require change management software which I'd like to avoid. Perhaps something like 4shared maybe or dropbox?

wow
wow very good.

New to Winmo developement, but willing to seriously learn
meltwater,
I am new to the Winmo developement, but am taking it up in a serious manner. I am willing to take on new tasks with some support. I have the full version of Visual Studio 2010 and can allocate alot of time currently to any projects that you are looking for. Again, I would need to have some support, or be pointed in the right direction, but am very willing to assist. I will do what research I can and ramp up to begin as soon as possible.
One note..I am currently enrolled in school for programming, part of the cloud of programmers that work with Microsoft through VS 2010, and am working to become more proficiant with the WinMo SDK.
Can I help?

Mxdadevolper said:
meltwater,
I am new to the Winmo developement, but am taking it up in a serious manner. I am willing to take on new tasks with some support. I have the full version of Visual Studio 2010 and can allocate alot of time currently to any projects that you are looking for. Again, I would need to have some support, or be pointed in the right direction, but am very willing to assist. I will do what research I can and ramp up to begin as soon as possible.
One note..I am currently enrolled in school for programming, part of the cloud of programmers that work with Microsoft through VS 2010, and am working to become more proficiant with the WinMo SDK.
Can I help?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That sounds perfect, just the sort of thing I'm after.
I'm no where near being expert anyway, as I've mentioned a few times, the facebook tab is my 2nd windows mobile app, the 1st being "hello worlde", however I've learned tons doing it and I think it's not too bad (a lot of it is still unreleased). I have a long background in embedded software though.
One thing, visual studio 2010 is no good for windows mobile development, it only supports windows phone 7 not windows mobile (MS killing WM dev much?). Fortunately you might be able to get a FREE student licence via MS Dreamspark, although sounds like they might be able to provide what you need. The work I am doing is in C#.
I put together a little of the support code for the tab last night and the concept appears to work fine. I'll start up a project thread soon, still trying to work out what is the best place to hold/manage the code, want to avoid change management systems:
I don't want to install extra software to handle it
It creates an extra barrier to people having a try
This means codeplex, sourceforge and gogglecode aren't suitable. At the moment 4shared seems like a good choice (simple online storage area) or DropBox which I also use (which could be easiest).
Opened up the developer thread, project details will come soon.

meltwater said:
That sounds perfect, just the sort of thing I'm after.
I'm no where near being expert anyway, as I've mentioned a few times, the facebook tab is my 2nd windows mobile app, the 1st being "hello worlde", however I've learned tons doing it and I think it's not too bad (a lot of it is still unreleased). I have a long background in embedded software though.
One thing, visual studio 2010 is no good for windows mobile development, it only supports windows phone 7 not windows mobile (MS killing WM dev much?). Fortunately you might be able to get a FREE student licence via MS Dreamspark, although sounds like they might be able to provide what you need. The work I am doing is in C#.
I put together a little of the support code for the tab last night and the concept appears to work fine. I'll start up a project thread soon, still trying to work out what is the best place to hold/manage the code, want to avoid change management systems:
I don't want to install extra software to handle it
It creates an extra barrier to people having a try
This means codeplex, sourceforge and gogglecode aren't suitable. At the moment 4shared seems like a good choice (simple online storage area) or DropBox which I also use (which could be easiest).
Opened up the developer thread, project details will come soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds Great!! I'll be looking for the thread and details. I also have been working in C#, so I think that we'll learn alot together.

Count me in... can supplement SenseSDK if needed!
Ed

eboelzner said:
Count me in... can supplement SenseSDK if needed!
Ed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hopefully a lot of the new tab will be within sense itself with a hidden support app to drive it, although later on it will probably use the SDK for configuring and managing things. Although that is only a rough idea at the moment. (will send you some details - will update the dev thread tomorrow and announce the project).
However, the facebook tab v2.0 is attempting to make extensive use of your sense SDK and greenhacks extended controls. I've currently pushed my ability to the limit with the interface though, hopefully when greenhack releases the latest extended controls I can fill in some of the missing holes. Still experimenting with the GUI aspects and possible concepts for how it should work. Will have think about the GUI again, there are a few areas which I've not quite been able to do what I was aiming for, which the Sense SDK might be modded to achieve.
I'm kinda aware though that a lot of the effort to implement the features for the facebook tab v2.0 will already be done by the Xda Facebook app being produced (so eventually we may tie it in to the tab after v2.0). The new project will hopefully help me expand what I can do with sense and allow better integration of apps.

New RSS Tab project is GO GO GO
[MOD][SENSE2.5TAB] RSSTab - Developer Thread
Thread has all the files ready to go, just not sure what people are waiting for...is it that scary?

Really?
meltwater said:
Also need suggestions on where to host the project, GoogleCode, CodePlex etc require change management software which I'd like to avoid. Perhaps something like 4shared maybe or dropbox?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why on earth would you want to avoid Source-code Version Control? SVN, GIT, and even CVS are an absolute God-send to any development group. i can see one or two pro's to avoiding it if you're the only developer on the team, but any more than 1 dev contributing code to a project turns it into a nightmare without a SVC ...

phalacee said:
Why on earth would you want to avoid Source-code Version Control? SVN, GIT, and even CVS are an absolute God-send to any development group. i can see one or two pro's to avoiding it if you're the only developer on the team, but any more than 1 dev contributing code to a project turns it into a nightmare without a SVC ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well can't that be handled by a decent web-based on which does it on the server side?
I know you are totally right, version control is very important (I've used many on a professional basis), but do I really need to force all the developers (and myself) to install full SVN programs?
I was hoping there would be a web based version control system which allows you to check in/out files purely using a web browser.
Any suggestions would be appreciated...I've only used closed corporate solutions before so new to open-source.

CVS idea
Guys,
Can we use CodeBeamer for something like this? From what I'm reading this might allow us the versioning control. It could be downloaded for free for up to 6 users.
Any thoughts?
Here's the link for the version that I was thinking of.
http://www.intland.com/products/cb-mr/overview.html

Windows Phone 7 DRM for Apps Cracked with Proof of Concept Program [Video]!

Security is an important aspect of anything that gets used by anyone, at any given moment around the world. For developers of applications that get purchased through a digital storefront, like Microsoft’s Windows Phone 7 Marketplace, making sure that it’s not easy, next to impossible in fact, to steal apps and put them on a device free-of-charge is just as important. But, as WPCentral reports, it looks like the Digital Rights Management (DRM) security tools set in place by Microsoft have been cracked!
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
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Fortunately, though, the program that is being used to do so is not known to the general public. In point of fact, the “white hat” developer that created it is just showing it as a proof of concept. If the program were to make it out into the world, then it would be possible for some people out there to strip the DRM from applications available in the Windows Phone 7 Marketplace, and then download them for free.
As of the time of this writing, Microsoft hasn’t made an official comment regarding the security hole. WPCentral has been in contact with Brandon Watson from Microsoft, but so far they have not heard back from him. The video demonstrating the proof of concept program making short work of DRM for the Windows Phone 7 applications can be viewed below.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=flqB9WCkGiQ

The depressing thing is it's so disturbingly easy. I stumbled on it getting HTC Apps to work on my Samsung, and it's far too easy. I think it'll probably be a matter of time before piracy becomes public on WP7, so to speak.
And for any doubters as to whether it is genuine (seen a few in my travels) - It works. A paid-for, commercial application running in the Windows Phone 7 emulator, after being deployed from a cracked XAP.
Still, it's good to see that WP7 seems to attract the sort of user that isn't a rabid pirate. Despite the ground being laid for some time, and despite people having independently developed methods of piracy, No-one has yet put such information into the public domain, seeking a way of solving the problems, rather than exploiting them.

Microsoft have made an official comment, by email to every developer, on the 16th November, titled "Windows Phone 7 App Protection". It included a white paper on the topic which pretty much said it was easy to steal apps but was a limited risk because of a developer unlocked phone is needed, a limit to how many side loaded apps, basically a couple of steps which would turn off the casual pirate.
I suppose what's new here is a simple one click tool that exploits MS's oversight in this statement: "all signed applications on an unlocked phone still require a license acquired through Marketplace to run". Basically they didn't realise that if you strip the signature, no license is required.
Another thing is they shouldn't have made paid apps on unsecured URLs, they should have put more effort into a secure download system like Apple or pretty much anyone else has.
I guess the main problem, that was a fatal flaw in the design of the platform, is they don't allow native apps only .NET apps, which means almost every single app available can easily be decompiled back to source form. It's a much bigger problem if other developers can steal your code than a few users stealing your app. It's for this reason WP7 can't be taken seriously as a development platform. Oh also it means 3rd party apps launch too slow compared to the built in ones, 1 minute to launch Tetris what a joke.

If you could somehow exclude the paid apps from this "FreeMarketplace" it would be really helpful for people who live in countries where the marketplace isn't as good content wise as in the usa.
That way everyone could download those free apps without the region problems.
These are just my thoughts on this. I'm not a developer or anything so I don't really know if this is actually possible without hurting the developers in any way.

indiekiduk said:
Microsoft have made an official comment, by email to every developer, on the 16th November, titled "Windows Phone 7 App Protection". It included a white paper on the topic which pretty much said it was easy to steal apps but was a limited risk because of a developer unlocked phone is needed, a limit to how many side loaded apps, basically a couple of steps which would turn off the casual pirate.
I suppose what's new here is a simple one click tool that exploits MS's oversight in this statement: "all signed applications on an unlocked phone still require a license acquired through Marketplace to run". Basically they didn't realise that if you strip the signature, no license is required.
Another thing is they shouldn't have made paid apps on unsecured URLs, they should have put more effort into a secure download system like Apple or pretty much anyone else has.
I guess the main problem, that was a fatal flaw in the design of the platform, is they don't allow native apps only .NET apps, which means almost every single app available can easily be decompiled back to source form. It's a much bigger problem if other developers can steal your code than a few users stealing your app. It's for this reason WP7 can't be taken seriously as a development platform. Oh also it means 3rd party apps launch too slow compared to the built in ones, 1 minute to launch Tetris what a joke.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You still need a dev unlocked device to sideload the cracked apps. Chevron7 doesn't really do the job as the phone relocks itself every week? which gets a bit annoying and might put people off, and also delete all the sideloaded apps with it. Imagine that, all your save games, app settings and history being reset every week.
Unless someone improves on Chevron7 I don't think piracy is much of a danger.

thats a great revolution, wp is now jailbreaked )) have funnn

digger1985 said:
You still need a dev unlocked device to sideload the cracked apps. Chevron7 doesn't really do the job as the phone relocks itself every week? which gets a bit annoying and might put people off, and also delete all the sideloaded apps with it. Imagine that, all your save games, app settings and history being reset every week.
Unless someone improves on Chevron7 I don't think piracy is much of a danger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it relocks, it doesn't delete any sideloaded apps, it just prompts you to uninstall when you attempt to run them (though you can escape from the prompt of course). Also, you can avoid it relocking by putting the phone in Flight Mode before syncing.

hounsell said:
I stumbled on it getting HTC Apps to work on my Samsung, and it's far too easy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
THAT is very useful. Sharing HTC, LG and Samsung oem apps across platforms should be allowed.

hounsell said:
If it relocks, it doesn't delete any sideloaded apps, it just prompts you to uninstall when you attempt to run them (though you can escape from the prompt of course). Also, you can avoid it relocking by putting the phone in Flight Mode before syncing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.

This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum).
As far as I understand, that's it, nothing more. No DRM crack, no "apps cracked", no "security hole" - just nothing!
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative. In theory it's possible but... We saw a lot (no, A LOT!) of commercial native apps for win32, mac etc. successfully cracked and hacked. Just visit any pirate tracker for proof. So, it's not a "big .NET problem".

digger1985 said:
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without real hack (hacking license verification etc.) it's not possible. Simple downloader described here as "WP7 ultimate crack" can't help. If you want you may search my posts here, I've already posted direct link to HTC's youtube xap...

I think it's real.
Another guy also did the same
http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/70704.aspx
He cracked an app on request and loaded into the emulator.

sensboston said:
Without real hack (hacking license verification etc.) it's not possible. Simple downloader described here as "WP7 ultimate crack" can't help. If you want you may search my posts here, I've already posted direct link to HTC's youtube xap...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I believe Hounsell managed to run the HTC stocks app on a Samsung
http://www.neowin.net/news/htc-wp7-app-ported-to-other-wp7-hardware

digger1985 said:
I think it's real
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Real what? Read my post above... If someone "hacked" non-obfuscated small application by removing or blocking IsTrial() requests, it's not a real hack.
Ask this guy to "hack" NeedForSpeed Undercover ;-)

sensboston said:
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative. In theory it's possible but... We saw a lot (no, A LOT!) of commercial native apps for win32, mac etc. successfully cracked and hacked. Just visit any pirate tracker for proof. So, it's not a "big .NET problem".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You didn't see any source code for commercial native apps because there are no automatic tools that do it, but you can see source code for all WP7 apps, using a free utility called Reflector. You choose the app, and it generates a visual studio project containing the code, simple as that.
In my experience developers don't readily use .NET obfuscators because they generally introduce instability which leads to increased development time.

indiekiduk said:
You didn't see any source code for commercial native apps because there are no automatic tools that do it, but you can see source code for all WP7 apps, using a free utility called Reflector.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? HexRays has an ARM decompiler which can produce readable C. It is possible to get back to similar to the source equivalent (with a lot of manual tweaking). If MS used a strong packer on the native code then it would make reversing it much harder/time consuming. At the end of the day it still needs to execute.

I've used .NET Reflector for years (and I do have another one, for Java/.NET written by my friend - sorry, can't announce it here).
My question is: have you ever tried to disassemble and re-assemble big, obfuscated application? Or you just theorizing? I did, and it's very complicated/not possible (at least by using Reflector tool only). This method is good for small non-obfuscated application only.
For the topic: here is my "proof of concept"
- use this url to browse Zune market for apps:
http://catalog.zune.net/v3.2/en-US/apps?q=Ebook Reader&clientType=WinMobile 7.0&store=zest
replace Ebook%20Reader to any your search term, don't exactly know about "store" field and en-US. You'll get an XML in response with found apps info.
To get an app full download url, I believe, you'll need some additional requests but I don't have time (and interest!) now to play with Wireshark and track Zune's and WP marketplace requests...

sensboston said:
This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum)
As for .NET apps vulnerability: does anybody here have an experience to disassemble and compile back a really complicated and large application, obfuscated by the latest commercial version of Dotfuscator (actually, the wp7 devs can obtain it for free until March 2011)? I've tried once (of course I'm not a "some hat - white or black, just a pro developer)... Results are negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? You should be able to decompile it and recomplie it with Reflector though, right? Even if the actual meaning of the code is hard to deduce after that point.....The CIL is stack-based, so you should be able to break it up into functions if nothing else.....
sensboston said:
This "proof of concept" shows only one thing (according to youtube video) - guys intercepted search requests from Zune, parse the responce and make a simple app to duplicate Zune's functionality. Anyone who can spend 30 minutes to WireShark and couple hours for coding can do the same app (actually, I've already posted a direct URL's to the marketplace apps on this forum)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya, this guy is lame. Let's ignore him and get back to work getting real stuff done.

n0psl3d said:
It is possible to get back to similar to the source equivalent (with a lot of manual tweaking) ... At the end of the day it still needs to execute.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This ^^
Reflector is great, but it's not a one-stop-recompile-shop. It still takes a massive amount of restructuring to get even an un-obfuscated application back together.
Also, WP7 business logic is almost always in the cloud. For 90% of applications, XAPs are basically just UIs - especially with the intense restrictions imposed on development right now.

digger1985 said:
Any chance of sharing the (Free) HTC Youtube app? That's the only I desire desperately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've got it running, but it doesn't function at the moment because HTC decided to use their own native functions tied to their driver, rather than the inbuilt .NET classes. All the network requests the app makes fails. Thinking of possible ways round this, but it would probably end up being so much work, it might just be quicker to create a clone.
Blade0rz said:
This ^^
Reflector is great, but it's not a one-stop-recompile-shop. It still takes a massive amount of restructuring to get even an un-obfuscated application back together.
Also, WP7 business logic is almost always in the cloud. For 90% of applications, XAPs are basically just UIs - especially with the intense restrictions imposed on development right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. Reverse-engineering, and even modifying an existing app is one thing in Reflector, but copy/pasting code will never work in large quantities, it's just not that accurate in my experience. So sure, your tips and tricks might not be safe, but your app as a whole isn't going to be just duplicated and reuploaded to the marketplace.
Of course, "cracked" for piracy is a whole other matter.

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