Wiskey (sic) Tango Foxtrot, Oscar? - About xda-developers.com

Wiskey (sic) Tango Foxtrot, Oscar? - About xda-developers.com

Am I the only one who is bloody damn tired of opening a thread that appears on the first page of a forum, thinking it is new, only to find that it is six, eight, ten months old?
Wouldn't it be reasonable to have a column in the forum listings that indicates the original posting date of each thread, so that just because someone posted to a five-year old thread, which bumped it to the first bloody page of the forum, we don't have to waste time reading old news?
Ideally, old threads would just fade away to page two, then three, then four, etc. until they ride off into the sunset. What sense does it make for them to take center stage six months after their birth, just because some noob comes along and posts a "downloading now" to LVSW's WM 6 v. 0.1?
Ah, that felt good. Thanks for letting me vent. That means I won't have to stalk the dark, foggy streets around the port of Miami looking for another victim.
Ben

I mostly agree with you Ben. I look at the number of replys and views to try to determine how old a thread is. Then comes the bouncing from page to page to find the posts I haven't seen yet.
I'll admit that I'm new to XDA, so maybe there's a way of only showing the unread threads and/or posts? Then again, sometimes the older posts jog my memory about what is being discussed.
Guess with such an active message board, these sorts of issues come up. Anyone have tips they'd like to share on dealing with it?
Gavin

mikechannon said:
At the risk of becoming one of your victims on a dark and foggy night -
The approach you suggest sounds like the AT&T forum one where threads get closed when they reach a certain age. This is not the approach here. In fact we actively encourage members NOT to start new threads if an old one exists. Who wants new threads on the same thing springing up all over the place (though it seems to happen anyway!). It is a pain when searching if numerous threads turn up on the same subject - and of course there may be good info in each one but not all in the same one.
I would only make one or two exceptions to the "search and use an existing thread" rule and that might be where a thread has become dozens of pages long or has become spoiled in some way or other
Mike
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Michael, it's an honor to have a reply from you. I always enjoy your posts.
And no, you will not become one of my victims around the foggy port of Miami. Aberdeen, perhaps Actually, it is rarely foggy in Miami. Come on over and enjoy the nice weather, friend.
I take your point. However, what about the idea of a column showing the original posting date? Or, could that date somehow be made to show up in the balloon when one places the cursor over the thread's title?
I wasn't really suggesting closing out a thread, Michael. Just letting them drift to the back of the line, perhaps. But even that is not necessary. Let them come to the front page when someone posts to them, that's just dandy. But let us know that they are a week old, or a year old.
Cheers for your contributions to the fora, Michael.
By the by, PLEASE do not accuse me of proposing something that emulates the AT&T forum! Ugh. That will bring out the Mr. Hyde in me. I had a terrible experience there with the appropriately named Mod Moose over a year ago and have not been back sinece
@gavink, thank you for your reply, too. This issue is a pet peeve of mine. It doesn't seem to bother many members, though, so it looks like we will have to live with it. A very old thread can have many, many posts, or very few, by the way, so that's no help.
Regards,
Ben

mikechannon said:
In the threads list, the thread will be highlighted in dark blue if there are new posts and to the left of the thread title is a grey box with an arrow that takes you to the first unread (by you) post.
Mike
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Thanks for the tips, Mike... Didn't know what that box was for!

mikechannon said:
.
Normally I have to pay large sums of money for that sort of thing
Miami I know is fabulous - not that I've been there. Weather is undoubtedly better than here - althoughwe do like our Scots mist now and again, provided we get a decent summer.
I can suggest this to site Admin. I agree that some threads eg early threads speculating about the price of the Tilt/Kaiser are pretty usless now. Presumably though these threads just die naturally. If a thread has new posts, why does it matter what date the original post was? Just curious about this 'cos quite often I refer people to threads I and others made over a year ago - if the answers were good then, most often they still are - don't you think?
Hah! I too have fallen foul of Mod Moose. I did go back though (not often). There was a time when the mere mention of XDA on the AT&T forum was seen as something worthy of cruel and un-natural punishment.
Possessing a "pet peeve" is a breach of forum rules. In accordance with the new policy on stronger Moderation you are ordered to be a happy, contented person. Mind altering drugs are available via download from the FTP - should they be required.
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Hello, again, Mike:
As always, your replies are cogent and witty. Large sums, indeed. Please, let it be in US $, not Euros, eh? Be kind.
Well, yes, Miami is pretty fabulous. If you ever get over here, please let me know ahead of time, and we will open our house to you.
OK, I am not requesting any threads be deleted, or even re-ordered. If it were possible, all I would like to see is the date of the original posting. This would help us to avoid wasting time reopening a thread we saw six months ago. For those of my generation, who cannot remember what we did ten minutes ago, this would be very helpful.
Making the original date of the first post available just seems to make sense to my time- and whisky-addled brain. Not to be able to see the date is like publishing an old news article and hiding the date.
From the traffic on this thread, or, more accurately, paucity thereof, I guess it doesn't amount to a hill of beans, so I am going to go pour myself a wee drap of the Glenlivet now and then forget about the whole damn thing. (You see, like you, Mike, I too like the Scots "mist")
But before I sign off, forgive me the breach of forum rules. With the cup of Glenlivet, I shan't be needing any other mind-altering drugs, however.
------------------------------------
A wee drap o' whisky I tak' when I'm weary
My blood for to warm and my spirits to cheer
And when I sit doon I intend to be merry
So fill up a bumper and bring it round here.
(First verse of a traditional Scots song)
.........................................
One last observation that has absolutely nothing to do with nothing. Your country's flag, (displayed in your personal information at the top of your e-mails, is practically identical to the U.S. and British Navy signal flag "M." And "M" when spoken in those Navy's, and the international phonetic alphabet, is "Mike."
You have a right to be doubly proud when you see your flag, Mike.
Cheers, brother Michael!
Ben

Mike, I think we have lost the rest of the "crowd" that were already not looking at this thread. Ah, well.
The history and pictures of the whisky mills were an absolute treat. It's amazing how rustic they seem (the sheds, that is)! Thanks for sending those. I will put them into my archive. I really would like to see them in person some day. Made it to London once, but that was a long time ago, and it's not Scotland, where some of my ancestors came from (along with some from Eire.)
I've not run across Macallan. Now I have a mission to find it.
That last picture is a gem. Give me the guy's contact information. From the looks of things, I don't suppose he has an e-mail, eh? I would buy a case of his brew without thinking twice, ha, ha!
As to the "Mike" flag, just Google "Navy Signal Flags." You are in for a treat when you see Scotland's proud flag identified as "Mike. Here is a table that shows both the flags and their phonetic names:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/sfpa.htm
Regards,
Ben

Thank you, Michael. Nothing should be done if there is a cost in money or time. Clearly, not many people are very worked up about about the issue.
Kind regards
Ben

You've a good sense of humor, Mike. Uh, is the photo typical of how the Scots bring up their wee ones? No wonder they are such a feisty bunch
Cheers
Ben

Well, well, well. Methinks you have to much time on your hands, Mike. Of course, here's Ben answering you, so who am I to talk?
Check out my new avatar. I was going to use this when I joined the forum, but never got around to it. The website photo you sent me was too much to resist.
In spite of my age, as revealed now by my mugshot, I still have a bit of "bong" left. I have been feeling less "feisty" the past few months, however. Reading the article you sent, now I understand. Big Ben had lost its "bong."
Not sure those workers scurrying around the face of my, uh, inspiration are going to do much for me, though. Perhaps if one of them were "bonnie Jean" from "the streets of Aiberdeen...."
Ben
(There go my chances of getting my "original post date" request implemented by our dear Webmistress, eh?)

Related

SPB Clone - Nag Screen Removal

SPB Clone is a fine bit of software. It makes a full ghost copy of your BA that you can reinstall after a hard reset - all the registry settings, installed software. etc.
The demo version is fully working but after installing via a clone you get a nag screen that continually pops up to remind you to buy the software.
Because I was so impressed with SPB Clone, I wrote to SPB to ask them if they could provide me with a single user licence at a less painful price, since the PDA I was cloning was actually my phone, and I'm not a big company with many PDAs. They told me that, sadly, SPB Clone was only available on an enterprise licence but then they told me how to remove the nag screen....
1. Open the folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer.
2. Tap and Hold and select View All Files.
3. Select bootupdt.exe and select Cut from context menu.
4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap and hold on the empty space within folder view. Select Paste from context menu.
5. Soft reset.
6. Remove bootupdt.exe from the root folder.

And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"

Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...

@tintoy: Generosity? I consider this being spam. Nobody wants new posts about "I now know how to reboot!" or "My how-to: Plugging USB cable in". I would accept those kinda posts if he'd just tell about product X, which is cheaper than Y but has same or more features like A, B, C. Only hassle you have to solve is to remove [filename] from autostart.

Chatty said:
And you were not able to find this out yourself?
Last year when I had my tires changed the clerk put a sign on my inner mirror to come back in 50km. And there was of course an ad on the sticker. Your post is like "Hey, today I opened my car and pulled the sticker of the mirror. You won't believe: I've got clear sight again!"
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Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?

tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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I'm a firm believer in freedom of information.
SPB gave me this information because I am a single user.
I have provided this information to other single users.
If an unscrupulous company wishes to use unlicensed software, possibly risking prosecution, that's their remit, not mine.

madcapmagician said:
Oh, well I'm terribly sorry that my lo-tech post offends your obviously tender, high-brow sensibilities.
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Ok, your're starting to get insulting. That's why I'll answer the last time to this thread.
madcapmagician said:
God help you if someone with less knowledge than you asks you a question face-to-face; I'd imagine they'd deck you with an attitude like yours.
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This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat. Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum. And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful, although it's obviously far, far beneath someone who is clearly an IT deity. Please allow me to prostrate myself before you - in fact, I'm genuflecting before my monitor even now!
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Farcical. No comment.
madcapmagician said:
Mind you; your grammar, spelling and punctuation aren't up to much. If you're going to slight someone on a written forum, at least make sure you can write, eh?
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Here you stepped over the line. If you ain't got no further arguments (if there has been at least one already) you start to insult people. That will make you look respectable, indeed. Although English is not my mother tongue I do speak more than one language. How many do you speak? (Not that I'm really interested.)

Chatty said:
Ok, your're starting to get insulting.
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Your original post was both rude and insulting, hence my reply.
This is not comparable because this is a forum, not a chat.
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How so? Do you not bring your manners to a forum? You are, in effect, saying that because you cannot see your fellow forumers face-to-face you feel you do not have to be polite to them.....and you then get upset when they are impolite back to you.
Most questions can be answered by just searching the forum.
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Why do you assume I didn't? Again, you are being insulting. I scoured the web to find the answer, like most other noobs would do. From the way you wrote, I got the impression you are very IT-literate - well, I am not and there are many others like me. My post is for them.
And I was not against your post in whole but about the way you described it.
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Then I suggest you re-read your first post: in your head, when you typed it, it may have sounded witty and polite and to-the-point; that is not how it came across. If you felt my description was at fault, you should have said so, rather than making rude, tangential comments.
madcapmagician said:
Try and remember that there are, in fact, some people that don't know as much about a subject as you and that, to them, as it was to me, a tip like this is very useful
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Just to reiterate the point.
Here you stepped over the line.
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Agreed, although in my head, when I typed it, it was quid pro quo.
I will publicly apologise here and now for being rude.
Please understand that there is nothing berating in this post - I am merely trying to articulate myself without you being able to physically hear my voice.

madcapmagician said:
Hey guys, I know a way that you can get the hard work of dozens of developers for free. Heck they gave it to me, and so it is implied that they want me to share it with the entire internet. Aren't I morally and ethically bankrupt?
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Yes, you are.
Chatty said:
There is this tire change sticker in my car that is driving me batty
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Hmmm, interesting
tintoy said:
Nice of you to repay their generosity by putting this information in the public domain...
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Chatty said:
Generosity? Huh...spam. X, Y, uh A, B, C, Marco, polo
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Exsqueezeme
madcapmagician said:
Everyone marvel at my use of polysyllabic word play. I am the master of the keyboard. Chatty, my swing thing is bigger than yours.
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madcapmagician again said:
I am a firm believer in freedom of unscrupulousness. It was granted to us in the 18th ammendment to the Constitution. SPB gave me the information because I am single minded and they have no desire to make money. They are actually just out to provide a community service.
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Wow, excellent points, all of them!
Chatty Cathy said:
Actually my swing thing is bigger. And I speak multiple languages, just not very well. A donde esta la casa de pepe?
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Stunning!
madcapmagician said:
Why are you rude to me just because I was rude to you? Don't you understand the consequences of disturbing the molecular dismobilization of the antisymmetric wave function? Egad man. Let me cut loose some more words from my Microsoft Word thesaurus...prostrate, genuflecting, forumers (huh?), tangential, exoskeletal, plebiscite. Take that!
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Do you guys know how tired the rest of us are of this kind of non-productive grade school banter? I am waiting for the "your momma" insults to start any minute. Can someone please delete this thread.

The original post in this thread was a useful piece of information on how to remove the nag screen on a piece of software.
It was not a "How-to" on rebooting or plugging in a USB cable, and i am sure that anyone who wants to use the SPB Clone would be grateful for this information.
The fact that you either didnt understand what the post was about or didnt care doesnt mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread. Trading insults back and forth is the biggest spam anyone could expect to see in a forum, especially this one, which provides so much good information to those of us who use these devices.

I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...

cw6447 said:
I continue to be floored by people's casual attitude toward trading software keys, hacking apps, and getting around nag screens. If the developer did not want you to see the nag screen then he/she WOULD NOT HAVE PUT IT THERE. If the developer gave instructions to one user on how to remove the nag, then great...what a nice developer/company. But unless they expressly gave that person permission to post it out to potentially thousands of people then it is JUST PLAIN WRONG. There is no gray area here, folks. Most of us have to live in a grown-up world and are tired of the impacts that other people's adolescent, situational ethics imposes on us. Do unto others...
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I agree with you on the ethics of "stealing" software, my main complaint here was the instant flaming that madcapmagician received after posting, that is not what this community is about. he was not posting a "how-to" on the process of rebooting, he was relaying the information given to him as he received it, i think that the information can be used by those who are ok with "stealing" software and those who disagree can just disregard the information. If the mods decide that the information shouldnt be here they have the power to remove it.

Forgive me for carrying on with this ridiculous and pointless conversation but is it not in fact illegal to unlock contract mobile phones? Would the cellular providers be happy for 1000's of people to remove their branding and software from devices which they have sold? If the software company had not wanted to help the individual then they would not have told him to start with. I am sure that nobody is so special that a software company would whisper information into his ear that they didn't want to be made common knowledge.
This is a tech support forum, it has helped me as well as many, many other people. If you want to start talking about wrong, immoral, illegal or any other description you may have then start looking at what other people are doing.
I appreciate this forum, and it's members. For crying out loud, stop arguing and get on with the job in hand.

Zylo, I agree with you in one regard. The post is perfectly legit insomuch as it is helpful and technically related. But only for people without a conscience. Bret, you are symptomatic of this new generation of kids with no personal accountability in life. To pretend that you can guess that a software company doesn't mind you giving away their software for free is ludicrous. madcap probably got ahold of some sales guy who thought it would be nice to do him a favor. Do you think the owners, investors or developers would have told him to feel free to post it on forums around the internet? Why not take that info and sell it for a profit on eBay? Or better yet why not just sell the software as your own? If they were giving you a free copy then they wouldn't mind you doing whatever you want with it. Right? You see, you keep blurring the lines of common decency to the point where eventually anything goes. You won't understand until someday you actually become a responsible citizen, start your own business, and put your hard-earned money and time out on the line. I bet when the leeches and thieves come after your product you will have a whole different attitude. The "right thing" to do in this case is so easy and obvious. I fear for a world where people can't make that distinction.

Sorry if what i said came across as a flaming. It was not intended as such. I'm just aware that softweare companies have many employees, from designers to developers to marketing people to managers. Of all these people the ones who seeme to have the most alturistitc (read non commercially-minded) approach always seem to be the developers. They are typically just concerned with writing good software and makng it work. If you asked a developer for a free copy of his/her software for 'testing' they'd probally give it to you without complaint! If, however, you asked them if they'd like their contract to end at the end of its term becuase you were going to make the software they wrote completly unprofitable by telling everyone how to get it for free they might be slightly less generous!

Your points have been taken on board but for the record, I work for a small, local mobile phone dealer. How much business do you think we lose from people unlocking phones, and therefore not returning to us?
I'm not saying that is right or wrong but what I am saying is that it is illegal. It is stealing from the provider and taking profits away from independant dealers. Also, how are you to know that my own business did not fail due to non-payers? You obviously open your mouth before engaging your brain. I could not recover the debts owed to my company and it resulted in the business closing. Is that not also theft?
If you want to target anyone go for the real criminals who sell ripped off software and DVD's on the Sunday markets. They are the real problem, not one guy who has made a very small post who has admitted to have lttle understanding of what he has done. I'm sure you have now all alienated him so he will never return to this site again.
Talk about a mountain out of a molehill.

Yeah. Can we consider this conversation over?
Please don't be offended by my posts @madcapmagician, I was just making a point, not trying to demonise you! I would imagine there is even a fairly decent discsussion that could be had about what consitutes ripping off software and what consitutes fair use...

I found my original e-mail and SPB’s reply:
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerzy Bulowski
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:01 pm
To: [email protected]
Subject: Clone
Dear Sir or Madam,
I recently downloaded your demo of Clone and have to say that, already, it has served me well after my phone required a hard reset the other day.
I was so impressed that I decided to purchase a copy but was absolutely horrified to see the price of $199. Whilst I can appreciate that Clone is suited to large businesses with many corporate PDAs, I am a single user - the PDA in question is actually my HTC Blue Angel mobile phone - and I was wondering whether you could sell me a single-licence version for a price more similar to what you charge for Pocket Plus?
If this is not possible could you tell me how long the annoying reminder screen will continue to pop up on my phone?
I look forward to your reply.
Regards,
Jerzy Bulowski
Hello Jerzy,
Spb Clone is enterprise product and there's not any "single user" licenses.
How to remove the nag screen in your case:
1. Open folder \Windows\StartUp in File Explorer. 2. Tap and Hold and select View All files. 3. Select bootupd.exe and select Cut from context menu. 4. Change to the root folder "\" and tap-n-hold on the empty space within folder view. Select "Paste" from context menu. 5. Soft reset. 6. Remove bootupd.exe from the root folder.
Best regards,
Alexander Shalin
Customer Support Team
Spb Software House
Email: [email protected]
Web: www.spbsoftwarehouse.com
Phone: +7 812 324 49 44
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Bret, perhaps I should point out that you can download SPB Clone for free from their website, as a demo version. Corporate customers, if they liked it, would then buy a licensed copy for $199.00 – I have “stolen” nothing.
Chris - As far as the ethics of posting said information in the public domain are concerned, my conscience is clear. This information is for single users, like myself. If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine.
Tintoy – I’m not offended. It was Chatty’s immediate, condescending, demeaning post that riled me. Zylograth said what I should have, instead of replying as I did:
The fact that you either didn’t understand what the post was about or didn’t care doesn’t mean you have to immediately flame the poster, if you have no use for the information in a certain thread just move on to the next thread.
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And that’s that!

AFAIK I think it's still open to debate whether we discuss cracking. I'm happy to talk about cracking, but not cracks.
Odeean makes a good point that cracking and reversing is part of the education of programming; if you're a commercial developer, or would be one, it's worth knowing weaknesses and pitfalls.
People shouldn't come on here and say "wantttt - crack for thai-g" etc. That's just silly and damn lazy. If you don't know how to get warez, you should be using a Motorola, not even a Nokia. But you should be rewarding programmers, or you should understand when there aren't programmers left to program because they've all gone broke. (And I'm not just talking about cash.. we don't all program for the $$)
But if you want to learn how to crack thai-g, search, ask nicely, or learn and tell. But don't distribute cracks (at least publically). There are other boards for that, and we have enough trouble keeping this board clean enough now-a-days
V

Take it like a man!
Madcap, my almost 3-year old daughter tries to make equally bad logic when I have caught her sneaking a cookie before supper. If you were in court you would be your own worst enemy. The email from spb said "How to remove the nag screen in YOUR case". Not "in your case and EVERY other person you can broadcast it to". Show me where he added, "And please feel free to share this with other single users". ONCE AGAIN, if they did not expressly permit you to give this to other people then it is just plain wrong! No, not illegal...it's the spb CSR's ignorant fault for giving it out to you. Let's say you are standing behind a guy in line at the QuickTrip. You witness the cashier ring up his order, but forget to ring up his Snickers bar. When the customer makes the cashier aware of the error, the cashier says,"Oh that's ok, just go ahead and take it." Does that then give you the right to grab a Snickers bar and put it in your pocket without paying for it? If one person got a freebie then everyone should get it, right? How long do you think QuickTrip will survive giving away it's products? It really isn't any different. Software is intangible property that should be treated as tangible. Just because you can get away with it doesn't mean you should. It is just like all of the thieves who thought downloading music they did not pay for was OK. It wasn't...still isn't...never will be.
As for your equally weak argument of, "If an unscrupulous company wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Let's take the same QuickTrip. While you are at the counter paying for your snacks (except for the Snickers bar tucked into your pocket), you oversee another employee opening the safe behind the counter. Because of your excellent eyesight and brilliant mind, you see and remember the combination. When you get home you go out to the SafesAndVaultsDevelopers.com forums and post about the dummy at QuickTrip opening up the safe right in front of everyone. You also post the combination to the safe because "if an unscrupulous person wishes to make use of this information then it’s their ethics that are at fault, not mine." Great logic. I wish I could send you to time-out like I can my daughter.
Try this. Reply back to spb. Tell that same Customer Service Rep that you are posting this hack on all of the popular PDA sites on the internet. And copy the support group at spb, too. After they respond to you, post their letter back here. I will be waiting to see the response.
Now I know you would never have posted the above spb info on a site where you thought "unscrupulous" people could visit and get hold of it. I mean, what jerk in their right mind would do that to a company and possibly expose them to real dollar losses? So since you know everyone here is trustworthy, why don't you go ahead and post your email account password, your xda forum password, and the PIN to your ATM account on here. Throw in your momma's phone number for grins. We won't do anything bad with it.
Am I going off on you? Yes. When someone tries to make a clearly black and white argument grey, and aggressively attempts to defend that indefensible position over and again, they deserve to be called out. Take it like a man.

XDAsite: Please Stop Using the Word "FORA"- It's Ridiculous, Forced, NON-User-Centric

XDAsite: Please Stop Using the Word "FORA"- It's Ridiculous, Forced, NON-User-Centric
I just saw the post on the Portal Page reminding people about some rules of the site. That was good. However, in the midst of that good message was nomenclature that needs to be retired because it has long since fallen out of common usage all over the world. Please -- The site has finally modernized, can we please kick to the curb the silly, academic use of the word "FORA" and get real?
=========
Following in my grand tradition of my occasional ridiculous commentry at XDA, let me add this one:
In high school growing up, I tool two years of Latin language, so I am perfectly clear about the tecnically correct singular form of the word FORUM and the technically correct pluralized form of this LATIN term, FORA. Let me just add that I think it is patently ridiculous for anyone in the year 2010 to continue to buck the trend of ordinary people who have rejected that academic technicality long ago, and to just call it what it is: FORUMS.
Nobody but ridiculous academics uses the term FORA... Honestly, just think about it... It sounds more like the friendly bacterial flora in your digestive track that help break down foods and prevent you from having flatulence -- than it sounds like the natural sound for "our mutliple forums".
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Must we use such academic terms?
The whole point of "TOUCHSCREENS 2.0" -- was to bow to the USABILITY DESIGN principles of user-centric design. XDA-developers.com would still be using its old forum design, would still be rejecting Samsung, would still be rejecting Motorola, and Sony Erricson, and lastly would still be rejecting the iphone, if it maintained its head-in-the-sand approach of "we are who we are, if you want to play in our backyard, shut up, read the rules, read the FAQa, don't ask stupid questiosn, and wait a year before ever posting" -- which is the mentality that such regimented thinking like "Fora" comes from, in my view.
But wisely, the new site owners saw, correctly, the SEA-CHANGE of the industry that began when the iPhone's unquestionably superior FINGER-NAVIGABLE touchscreen interface put WM's tired old little 6-point checkbox interface you need to hit with a stylus to shame --- transforming the industry overnight. Sure, we could rightly complain about the lockdown system of the iphone and all it lacked -- a LOT -- and focus and hail the openness of WM and its accessibilty to DEVS to create the magic XDA-developers built its reputation on... But the fact is, the iPhone WOKE UP the industry -- and not a moment too soon.
It was RIDICULOUS to have to have the WM phone 6-8 inches away and have a stylus chained to your device in order to place a phone call or add a contact. HTC took cues immediately and for the next few years SAVED Microsoft's sweet ass by introducing TOUCH-FLO and doing all the UI layer changes that Microsoft (dumbass Ballmer) stubbornly refused to do because they were so ****-sure they were the leaders and no one could dethrone them.
Yeah. Until they were dethroned. Then they lost two whole years of selling as they faded from marketplace relevance. And I'm suggesting that that is what obsolescent and calcified thinking PRODUCES. Just carrying on old thinking processes because -- either (a) we've always done it that way, or (b) "we know best, we're in charge". Both are wrong and lead to consumer revolt.
Let's drop this ridiculous "FORA" usage. No one in the mainstream uses it, because it's ridiculous. Sure, you can find it at http://FORA.tv -- a fantastic service -- but that's their BRAND name, it's not their nomenclature for their forum structure. Say what you will, call them dumb, cal them uneducated, big deal: but the international consumer marketplace doesn't care one bit about Latin plurality rules. Nor should you, nor should we. Give it up and join the 21st century, please.
THE REST OF THE XDA SITE HAS. They modernized. They finally took queus from the world that had been passing them buy -- and modernized -- and in a short time -- way less than a year -- completely upgraded XDA with a smart portal news page, tied to twitter, etc. (great job svetius and writing team!)
And so to cling to that bygone era artifact seems silly. Dump it, and just get practical please. It's user-centric design. Users hate fora. Fora is silly. They use the word Forums. So should this site.
Thank you for your consideration!
Love,
quicksite

Wow, you seriously got some spare time. I've rarely seen such a long explanation and deliberation for such a simple and easy concern.

Becksman said:
Wow, you seriously got some spare time. I've rarely seen such a long explanation and deliberation for such a simple and easy concern.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, and your point is what?
My profession is Usability design -- so it';s my profession -- not my spare time.
The difference between most people is this:
I have no interest in simply registering an opinion. That's what 99% of the world does in 140 twitter culture. I'm a chnage agent, That means if I take the time to write, it means I want it changed, I'm not merely flapping my gums.
Thanks for playing though.

Why does it matter how people want to refer to it? Stop caring.
Sent from my Epic 4g

Zeinzu said:
Why does it matter how people want to refer to it? Stop caring.
Sent from my Epic 4g
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Stop replying. Unsubscribe. Please go to games section or free downloads.

I second this.
I'm Brazilian, and "fora" means "out" for me =P
I guess all Internet users are used to the term "forums". In addition, in Portuguese, the plural of "fórum" (forum in English) is "fóruns" (we only use "m" before "p" or "b")

quicksite said:
Yeah, and your point is what?
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My point was, that you spend a lot of time cross-referencing to other areas where "progress" was made and the game changed, instead of focussing on reasons why the word "fora" is so "ridiculous, forced and NON-user-centric". I missed the development of the wheel though.
I get your point but I think you're way overexaggerating. Windows mobile would not have lost its market lead to the iPhone (or to Android now) if the only difference would have been the word "fora" on one device's display and "forums" on the others.
Cheers
(Now off to games and ringtones fora)

Holy Sh.. that's some free time o.0
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Hi quicksite,
I just finished going over your opening post and truth be told, I see no problem whatsoever with the use of that term. Does it matter that the term is old? A big part of the English language has, as you correctly pointed out, Latin roots, which are old in the first place. The word is perfectly valid as it is, according to the following sites:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fora
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1248326#m_en_us1248326
http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=fora
By contrast, your example was pulled out of Wikipedia. Truth be told, if I knew that the term was invalid or outdated, I would have edited the article before it was published. However, this is not the case. It isn't a matter of being old fashioned, conservative, reluctant to change, or anything like that. My writer used a term, which is accepted by all three world standards of the English language (above), and as such I have no problem with that. Likewise, if my writer would have used the word "forums", I would have still accepted it because it is also an acceptable term. Some people may not like the sound of it as you claim, but likewise, you will have people who think that the use of the word forums is not right, or simply doesn't sound right.
As far as your example of "Juiz de Fora", I am sorry but I fail to see how that is relevant to anything. The term is in Portuguese and it is the name of a city. As the member before me pointed out, the term fora means "outside" in Portuguese, but considering that the term we are looking at is in English, it is completely irrelevant.
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Please don't take this as an attack or anything like that. I am in charge of anything that goes in the Portal (as I edit every article), and because of that, I thought it would be best for me to explain this.

+1 on this ez
egzthunder1 said:
Hi quicksite,
I just finished going over your opening post and truth be told, I see no problem whatsoever with the use of that term. Does it matter that the term is old? A big part of the English language has, as you correctly pointed out, Latin roots, which are old in the first place. The word is perfectly valid as it is, according to the following sites:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fora
http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_us1248326#m_en_us1248326
http://www.britannica.com/bps/dictionary?query=fora
By contrast, your example was pulled out of Wikipedia. Truth be told, if I knew that the term was invalid or outdated, I would have edited the article before it was published. However, this is not the case. It isn't a matter of being old fashioned, conservative, reluctant to change, or anything like that. My writer used a term, which is accepted by all three world standards of the English language (above), and as such I have no problem with that. Likewise, if my writer would have used the word "forums", I would have still accepted it because it is also an acceptable term. Some people may not like the sound of it as you claim, but likewise, you will have people who think that the use of the word forums is not right, or simply doesn't sound right.
As far as your example of "Juiz de Fora", I am sorry but I fail to see how that is relevant to anything. The term is in Portuguese and it is the name of a city. As the member before me pointed out, the term fora means "outside" in Portuguese, but considering that the term we are looking at is in English, it is completely irrelevant.
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Please don't take this as an attack or anything like that. I am in charge of anything that goes in the Portal (as I edit every article), and because of that, I thought it would be best for me to explain this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

I almost forgot to add this. Under your arguments, words and expressions like laughing or "I will be back shortly" would be replaced by LOL and BRB, simply because they are more mainstream. Soon after that, you would have people asking for "cheezeburgerz".

Lol have to agree with Ez.
I'd put this down to too much time on your hands... maybe could be put to better use since XDA is a *development* Fora

Captainkrtek said:
Holy Sh.. that's some free time o.0
Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As usual, all respondents are 2009/2010 -- have almost no sense of XDA culture other than gimme gimme gimme now, 140 tapatalk gotta go, life on the run
send from my implant device

Captainkrtek said:
Last but not least, the whole "iPhone revolutionizing the world" argument... not sure why you used that example as it is a little far fetched (conveys your point, but there are better analogies).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually it makes perfect sense for those not "on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives"
Quite simply: XDA-devs was founded upon an HTC phone running WM; WM was the prevailing OS for long time; the bulk of the work here for years was focused on things like hard spl and getting hardware and software to do things never intended by the manufacturer -- which made the site great, gave it its reputation, and things churned along. ... Then the iphone came and changed a paradigm. A lot of resistence felt here on this site to the very idea of the iphone, but its influence was undeniable. It was fought and ignored tooth and nail by Ballmer and his old school thinkers tied to the past. Until they were swept in the destbin of history and a new model swept the world with finger-driven interfaces, hardware changes + OTA app store concept which overnight made -- for the mainstream, not the tinkerers at XDA -- WM 6.1 and 6.5 an obsolete concept for app-dev ...
The whole industry shifted around this new model -- and eventually that gravitational force was so strong even old fashioned "We liked out yellow skin" XDA-devs stepped up to the plate, threw out the old, and joined the new --- with a new front page way closer to engadget than old XDA would even have ever dreamed of allowing.
There is nothing obtuse about that analogy at al except for someone purposely being obtuse. It means -- dropping old relics and getting with the times. Nobody is saying "the word isn;t used in the english langauge" -- did I say that? No. I say mainstream. Just as XDA-devs has clearly revamped to appeal more to mainstream and if you doubt that, go have a coffee or beer with svetius, or take a look at that sister site.
I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm just making a strong advocacy point, and i don't like ha;lf-stepping it. There are always going to be little peanut gallery voices who have generally nothing to add other than mockery like "hah hah too much time on hands" like that really refutes or affirms anything. Might as well not post at all. These are just general forums after all . Look how silly it would look if I had said. These are just general fora afterall. People can post what they like.
But it seems rather juvenile and meaningless to bother to post to a thread where you have nothing to add... If anyone has too much time on their hands its someone who posts absolutely nothing of any value, just dittos, and more dittos, just tapping away from tapatalk, because it's so important you see to comment on how stupid the whole topic is. because then you see how smart they are and how ridiculous the poster is.
I think you're pretty silly to post about something you find a waste of time. They do studies about people like that.
But finally, regarding editorial style guides, Okay, I'm all for that. Then would you please, as of today, help make the site editorially consistent, applying your style guide: Here are some places you can start. Oh, it's the portal page, well that's easy, it's under your domain! Happy trails one and all !

Stirring Up ****e!
quicksite said:
As usual, all respondents are 2009/2010 -- have almost no sense of XDA culture other than gimme gimme gimme now, 140 tapatalk gotta go, life on the run
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Help me with your logic. You mention mainstream and getting with the times, but you also reference culture in a way that would indicate a reverence of past times. You also appear to loathe or hold some angst against the internet community (or people in general) in its present state by your usage of "140 tapatalk gotta go" as if people today do not get it or do not care.
Would we be better served keeping with the times or holding on to our history? On one hand you indicate the former, ("dropping old relics and getting with the times"), yet on the other you cling to the latter ("makes perfect sense for those not on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives" ).
I use forums, but I also accept the use of the word fora. One must always consider audience when speaking or (in this case) writing, so whomever the author considered when composing dictated his or her usage of the particular word currently debated.
Honestly, I do not understand your point. If either usage were incorrect, perhaps I could agree with your stance. Unfortunately, both ARE correct, and as such render your opinion moot. You are still entitled it, however pointless it may be.
-Internet Tough Guy
P.S. Let us be honest. Your iPhone argument is completely illogical. Some (see most) would consider it a logical fallacy. While I can see where you intended to relate your point, it was under served by your misuse of analogy. Also, forum registration date is not indicative of knowledge, experience, or expertise with xda, its history, or its culture (whether past, present, or future).
Wait a minute... Did I just get trolled? Doh.

quicksite said:
Actually it makes perfect sense for those not "on the run with 140 character-count lifedrives"
Quite simply: XDA-devs was founded upon an HTC phone running WM; WM was the prevailing OS for long time; the bulk of the work here for years was focused on things like hard spl and getting hardware and software to do things never intended by the manufacturer -- which made the site great, gave it its reputation, and things churned along. ... Then the iphone came and changed a paradigm. A lot of resistence felt here on this site to the very idea of the iphone, but its influence was undeniable. It was fought and ignored tooth and nail by Ballmer and his old school thinkers tied to the past. Until they were swept in the destbin of history and a new model swept the world with finger-driven interfaces, hardware changes + OTA app store concept which overnight made -- for the mainstream, not the tinkerers at XDA -- WM 6.1 and 6.5 an obsolete concept for app-dev ...
The whole industry shifted around this new model -- and eventually that gravitational force was so strong even old fashioned "We liked out yellow skin" XDA-devs stepped up to the plate, threw out the old, and joined the new --- with a new front page way closer to engadget than old XDA would even have ever dreamed of allowing.
There is nothing obtuse about that analogy at al except for someone purposely being obtuse. It means -- dropping old relics and getting with the times. Nobody is saying "the word isn;t used in the english langauge" -- did I say that? No. I say mainstream. Just as XDA-devs has clearly revamped to appeal more to mainstream and if you doubt that, go have a coffee or beer with svetius, or take a look at that sister site.
I'm not looking for a fight either. I'm just making a strong advocacy point, and i don't like ha;lf-stepping it. There are always going to be little peanut gallery voices who have generally nothing to add other than mockery like "hah hah too much time on hands" like that really refutes or affirms anything. Might as well not post at all. These are just general forums after all . Look how silly it would look if I had said. These are just general fora afterall. People can post what they like.
But it seems rather juvenile and meaningless to bother to post to a thread where you have nothing to add... If anyone has too much time on their hands its someone who posts absolutely nothing of any value, just dittos, and more dittos, just tapping away from tapatalk, because it's so important you see to comment on how stupid the whole topic is. because then you see how smart they are and how ridiculous the poster is.
I think you're pretty silly to post about something you find a waste of time. They do studies about people like that.
But finally, regarding editorial style guides, Okay, I'm all for that. Then would you please, as of today, help make the site editorially consistent, applying your style guide: Here are some places you can start. Oh, it's the portal page, well that's easy, it's under your domain! Happy trails one and all !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are quoting the wrong person altogether. It wasn't Captainkrtek who said that you could have used a better analogy, it was me. If you would read the whole statement, you would have read that I didn't say that your analogy was wrong. I said it was a long stretch, but never said it was wrong.
Also, I never said that "Forums" was wrong either. What I did say was that "Fora" is a properly used term, and perfectly acceptable from where I stand. There is nothing wrong with using it interchangeably, so as both of these terms are acceptable, I will carry on as I was doing before reading your suggestion.
Finally, the join date has nothing to do with the replies you are getting. I am over 2 years your senior membership-wise, and while my replies are a bit more consistent than a simple "you are wasting your time", I will agree that you put a tremendous amount of effort on something that is not needed.
I am open to suggestions and discussions on things that will improve the Portal. I have never seen or heard of anyone complaining about this in my 5+ years of being a member in multiple fora (not just XDA, but many others as well). So, as this is not a crucial change or anything that will affect the usability or functionality of the site, I will take no action towards this. Thank you for the suggestion.

Man the people who frequent the fora here.
It seems their flavourite thing to do sometimes is to analyse the colour of the language in an effort to honourably be at the centre of the arguement. Its the internet, people use different language programme than others.

Wow, what an article. I must say though that I disagree with you. Just because it's the newest item doesn't mean it's what we should go with.
The english language (here in America) is becoming ridiculous to an extreme. To use a term like lol or brb is one thing but when people start typing phrases like 'lol @ u plz hlp me i peez my pnts' all I can say is WTF?? Or when people can't get it through their heads that '@' does not mean 'and' there's a symbol for that - &.
Some businesses are starting to do that stuff "OMG Huge sale, Stp by 2day" and various other forms. Is this what our society is coming to? Do I need to go buy a cypher just to decode teenybopper messages that are as insignificant as the brown thing I left in my toilet last night?
@quicksite lk omg wtf is fora
@fadman i dont nozzz o god hlp mezz plzzzz :.((
If you want to change something why not change the stupefaction of an entire language instead of promoting the expedition of it.

Don't you have people better things to do, rather than complaining about word 'fora' ? It's bad, yeah, but many here can't write or spell correctly.

Are you trying to get at the fact that you don't like the word "fora" instead of forums or forum?
If so, then you are the only person and the only thing i have read on this FORUM that has called this a "fora" or used the term "fora".
According to my mum, "fora" is a plural of "forum"
It can be applied like this:
"There are many different kinds of fora on the internet."
Or
"There are many different kinds of forums on the internet."
You can use either "fora" or "forum".
If the usage of the word "fora" instead of "forum" or "forums" annoys you, well that's just tough sh*t!
You can use either word and people can choose which on they want to use.
So there you go.
And i do have too much time on my hands
BTW: Its free will, people can say which ever word, and you can't change that.
So if your trying to, you have just failed.
BTW2: Someone should close this thread before a flame war starts.

The current state of XDA

I've been a fan of this site for a long time. I don't post too much, but I have gained much information here. This site has been an invaluable part of my Android hobby. I own 5 Android phones and a Motorola Xoom tablet, and thanks to XDA they are all rooted with custom roms and I use each one confidently. This site is full of great information and helpful people.
However, as of late, XDA seems to be putting out a bad vibe to many of its users. I personally see this stemming from the fact that users are expecting far too much. Everyone feels entitled to everything, on their own terms. They make demands of developers that will benefit only themselves. Instead of helping new members find the info they are seeking, they'd rather berate and belittle them publicly. The act superior to anyone asking a question. And on and on(trying not to write a book here). I am watching as developers that have contributed so much be treated with little or no respect until they don't even want to be a part of XDA anymore. I am seeing new members being scared off by elitist, rude "veteran" members. Overall, more and more people are wanting to distance themselves from XDA.
We cannot blame the site admin or mods, though i do hope to see them push the site in a different direction soon. It is on our back, the users of XDA. We are XDA. We need to remember that the devs are doing what they do for free, and for Android as a whole, not us as individuals. What happened to the great sense of community with Android. IMO, that was one of the best aspects of being involved with Android. There is much more I could say, but I think the main points are made and you can fill in the blanks. I hope to see Android become a community again, where users help one another, don't expect everything to be tailored to them specifically, and share a bit of both gratitude and empathy.

I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers

abn75 said:
I agree with you, but sadly I do not see Xda changing for the better anytime soon. Maybe not at all. The majority of the blame does lie with us, the users. But, the admin and mods must also take some of that blame, as they have allowed the current trend to continue as long as it has
sent using a black and Decker toaster oven and two wire coat hangers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.

Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.

JimmyMcGee said:
Dude we get it, we understand your not happy, we are working on this so give us some time to work through the issues and quit berating us and maybe try helping us by offering solutions to the problems you see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

chopper the dog said:
Ehh, what do you expect with family plans and children with phones? The smart phone demographic over the last 4 years has changed so dramatically. It's no longer just seen as a business tool, but rather the hip new gadget to have. So when you widen the scope and age of users the arrogance and lack of respect is increased and certainly magnified.
good day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good point indeed.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

andr0id23 said:
Are you a mod or admin? I'm assuming so by the wording in your post. Noone was berating anyone, especially the mod/admins. I said they weren't to blame, and the poster below me said users are most responsible. This was a post to call attention to an issue, and try to get forum members back into a more community oriented manner, and to NOT react like you did by sounding angry, snide, and pointing fingers.
Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Sir I appreciate your Post. abn has been complaining about our inaction for a while and we ARE looking to improve and it just gets a little old hearing the same complaint over and over when you are working to make this a Quality Forum everyone, including us, wants it to be. I do apologize for my perhaps over-reaction, but it is hard to be constantly beat up on. Yes, us Mods/Admins do deserve some blame. But we have recognized it and we are trying to resolve the issue.

We all just do our best.
Sent from my LG-P999 using XDA App

you need to consider that back in its earlier days, XDA was all about this lil' group of people with WinMo devices learning to rip their mobile OSes apart. as the site grew in size and popularity, more devs came in along with more end-users who feed upon the products of their kitchen. once the android explosion began, there was no other way around the fact that a multitude of users would flood in where as the number of devs coming in would be far smaller.
i still remember just over a year back when i got to cooking my own WinMo ROM the community was growing but there were still devs around where ever you looked ready to guide and help around but now that the site's more popular than ever people flock here expecting miracles and are not disappointed either. it's so addictive that you have to stick around for more. but sadly the number of devs don't grows as fast as their end-user counterparts. that's why you see this problem today. we need the newer member to be willing to learn on their own, being patient with the progress of other devs and most importantly...READING.
just my two cents.

Open tech forums are always ripe for attrition due to many reasons.
The question here is, do we cater to the users or do we cater to the developers? It's pretty obvious that without developers, XDA wouldn't be much of anything.
It's my opinion that the 'elitist' attitude which you speak of from the senior members is something that SHOULD be done, as their point is to protect the developers from being inundated with trivial questions and not detailed bug reports.
Kyphur, another XDA Moderator, had this to say back in 2008 (in a similar thread) when we were a bit smaller, and it still holds true:
kyphur said:
I think what a lot of people forget is that this is not a "make my phone neat & kewl" place.
As implied by the name this is technically a Developers forum/community.
Now what does that mean? Well first off it means that there is an expectation that if you are here then you want to customize your device but rather than just installing something that someone packaged you want to understand how it works and maybe even enhance it yourself.
When I first came here with a Blue Angel it was a different environment. PDA Phones were not embraced by the general public because of the expense and complexity (I paid over $400 for my BA). A $400 phone 4 years ago was expensive, today the Tilt is $300 after rebates but with inflation & the rise in the cost of other devices and the fact that there are other sources out there giving them away for $150 our neat bit of kit has become popular with mainstream users.
Now we have a flood of new users who are asking not "How can I do this myself" but more like "Give me the quick fix" without caring to understand the process. See if you read the threads then you get to experience the learning process, you see how the issues were investigated and confirmed. Then you get to watch the different attempts at resolution and learn why some failed while others worked. That is called Development.
The NooB backlash is coming from users who have walked in the development shoes and is directed mainly at those who don't care for the journey but just want the end result or destination.
As a Development Forum we are just as much (if not more) about the journey. I've read so many comments like "I don't have time to read all of the threads" or "I don't care how it works, just that it does". These very statements are contrary to the heart & soul of XDA-Devs and that is why the backlash is so strong.
Let me be very clear on this: IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT UNDERSTANDING THE JOURNEY THEN YOU PROBABLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Now do we go kicking users off who never contribute anything, NO. We tolerate it to an extent. Where the toleration ends is when these users start diluting the usefulness of the forum by repeating the same questions over and over again.
You ask us to understand your position. Well if you want to benefit from our experience and time then I think it is only fair that you understand our position.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

I think that there are problems here at XDA that are there partially because of the rather loose rules we have set in place.
Sure, the internet, like most places in our society, is one that is supposed to promote freedom of speech. But there is a monumental difference between debating and being immature. A large proportion of the members here grown adults, but it really, really doesn't seem anything remotely close to that quite a lot of the time. Quite a lot of "you ****ing prick"s and the like being thrown about between members. Quite frankly, it's ridiculous, like a bunch of rather scummy 13 year olds.
Part of that does seem to come from the allowance of swearing on the forums; not saying don't swear, because believe me, I'm the last person who'd say that...but I don't on here, merely because it's not the swearing or inappropriate language itself that causes the problem, but the behaviour that naturally comes with it. Many forums are banning the discussion of provocative topics such as Mac vs. PC, iOS vs Android etc. Obviously, this being a mobile device forum, that can't be done here, but there needs to be some moderator control over that. All because people can't help but be immature about it...
That's the worst bit of it.
As for developer vs. end-user, just look at the market now, as well as what the developers here are doing. Smartphones are now more accesible, and the variety between the OSs at their core is much smaller than it used to be. The developers are working hard to make the process of rooting, jailbreaking, any kind of software modification easier for the more technically inept user.
Developers can't expect this forum to stay a developer community if they are going to make their creations so easy to use So experienced users need to accept that XDA has now moved away from being what it's used to be. They need to try and be accomodating to less technical users.
However, the biggest problem here now are probably newer users. They simply don't read or search. Answers are having to be repeated over and over again, even when everything is in the OP...many users need to spend time reading, and they'll realise that a lot of the answers aren't even technical; just a bit of common sense and logical thinking and you'll get the answers you'll need.
In a way, a simple way of post once, sticky once, force end users to read it, and we'll get somewhere.

A lot of good posts here. I tried to word my OP carefully as to not point fingers. Or at least not to lay blame on any one group of people. And I can't claim to know the whole story as while I own a handful of Android devices, that is only but a small part of this site as a whole. I don't come close to visiting all the forums. I really like XDA. From what I see, it is one of the rare sites where thread, where i frequent, often stay on topic. This is due in part to the mods, and in part to the users directing newer members by telling them this isn't the right place to post, linking to an appropriate thread, or just giving a quick answer. However, it's when people start getting angry and calling other people out for not knowing something, being rude, blah blah blah, that I am seeing more of. If all someone has to say is "use the fu**ing search", or "wrong spot noob", there is really no reason to post anything at all. That isn't helping anyone. There are better ways of going about it.
And I think we all have to admit, the days of only the more technical users rooting and modding are coming to an end. Devs are making it easier, one click methods are popping up all over the place, everything is automated, etc. People no long need to learn what is going on when they root their devices. While I enjoy having that knowledge and using the abd method of rooting when there is a one click available, others certainly will not, and they often don't need to. Maybe this isn't the best decision in many of our eyes, but tt is a reality now. More and more people are hacking/modding/rooting every day, and many of them have not even used a command line. I mean hell, there is even an "adb for dummies program" that will install and set up adb for you in one click now!
Again, not point fingers, but I am saddened to see so many people arguing, so many snide, rude responses, people being so demanding and self-serving, and devs leaving the site. I realize that the site is bigger than ever, and that mods do this for free and don't want to waste time being "rudeness police". I don't have all the answers, just something Ive noticed for awhile now. Glad to hear the mods are working on it as well as they can. I know they don't want to see developers leaving. Let's face it, some of these developers have quite a following! Also, sorry they have to hear the same complaints over and over again, but, as I said, I'm glad they are looking into it(if there is even anything that can be done, and I thanks the mods, admin, devs, and users for making this such a great place to learn and share!

I am one million percent in agreement with this topic, but I think the blame is not xda per se... Now, this is MY OPINION, but the problem is as mentioned before, our current society... I said something similar on aamikam's MikG thread on the Evo forum, this is the result of the 21st century, where technology has made mankind do anything anywhere anytime with only a click, and the kids and teens of today are raised in this world of now, so is in their nature to have that state of mind, "I want this now"; and I know this is not all the world, but in general, this is the new way of life on this century, the age of now...
We can also blame the new parents of this era, the average parent now is in their mid 20s to 30s, low 40s and in general, are allowing their kids more privileges and liberties than they had just because "at your age I couldn't do it, but I'll let you do it, not like your grandpas who didn't allowed me do anything at all" and so on and so forth...
Anyway, just wanted to say something about this, good nite all..!

Back in the old days...

Things were much more peaceful around here before we got so gosh-darned popular. Becoming the go-to place for mobile hacking, I suppose, has that effect on forums. We've gone from a rag-tag bunch of legacy Windows Mobile enthusiasts to a lean, mean, and sometimes green group of Android hackers. While our members, moderators, administrators, developers, and posting styles have certainly changed; we have remained focused on only one thing--mobile hacking and development.
But for now, let's take a step back and remember what XDA was like back in 2003, when Windows Mobile was still cutting edge and the O2 XDA was only a few months old. Back then, fights never broke out and people generally respected their fellow forum members. At the time, we weren't just a place for users to come and get a "Kewl bit of kit." Rather we were focused on the joys of development instead of solely caring about the end product. We specialized in development, not troubleshooting. For better or for worse, however, the explosion of Android brought a sea of new people to XDA, many coming from more diverse walks of life than we could have ever imagined. This has lead to some inevitable butting of heads. Who could have imagined how things would change in the 7 years and three months from this posting date to when I became a registered member on these forums. This isn't to say that we won't try our hardest to help you out if you're having a hard time installing a ROM, kernel, mod or theme. However, we need to make sure that this in no way hinders development.
Luckily, there's nothing saying that we can't (and won't) bring back the same ethos we had in the early development days. As our master-in-chief Svetius recently stated, there will be some changes in the coming months meant to bring us back to a more development-focused environment. I think this is exactly what we need. For better or for worse, XDA has changed quite significantly throughout the ages. However, one thing remains true: We are all here in the pursuit of mobile hackery. XDA for life! Actually, no. XDA IS life!
Now, all of you disrespectful newbies, get off my lawn before I get angry.
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PS. Lawn joke kanged (without permission) from Jimmy.

I agree. I wonder if many of the people who are demanding that we be a technical support forum realize what our address is. We are xda-DEVELOPERS.com not xda-troubleshooters.com. So our main focus is Development for our phones. If someone shows effort, respect and we have time we may answer a troubleshooting question. However, please note that typing such a request in all Caps, poorly constructed sentences, or repeatedly will only serve to make you look like a fool. Then, instead of getting help, you will get ridiculed. So please realize that we owe you nothing. Unless you have developed something and shared it with the community, then we owe you our gratitude and respect. I know that if you treat me with respect I will give you mine.

Many, many moons ago a group of individuals got together to see about developing fun stuff for their phones and come up with was of hacking them just for the fun of it…..great times, those were (in Yoda’s voice).
There were only a handful of devices that were actually worth a crap when it came to productivity and reliability.
One of them was my Sony Ericsson T610 which offered an array of features only seen on SiFi novels (I know I’m exaggerating but anywho..). Just imagine…Bluetooth and IR receiver in one device It was unheard of!!
Back then there were no kanging fights between developers. The biggest problem we had was to Hard SPL the Wallaby
I also remember having to rig a cable in order to download my first ROM in to my HP iPAQ 500 and Android was something that I had only seen in black and white movies where invaders would try and destroy humanity! Those were the days!
Those were the days and sadly they seem to be gone. Now days is more about who kangs who, trying to destroy noobs and attempting to make XDA into some kind of satiric, disgusting and unruly place when in all reality this was is and needs to remain a place where great minds get together to exchange ideas and create apps, mods and hacks that make our devices more powerful and efficient than any manufacturer cold ever do.
As we go back in time lets try and imagine a website where solidarity and comradery exist, where one can feel free to ask a simple question with out someone else popping out a meme mocking them while trying to flame them in ways that only the Spanish inquisition could do!!
Mates and fellow Mods….this is not the XDA that was envision back in those days….but is not too late…It’s “NEVER” to late to correct our ways and make XDA the best forum in the world!!
A great man once said, and I quote: “all I wanna do is a zoom zoom and a boom boom” and you know what….he was right!! I just want to zoom, zoom and a boom, boom also.
Cheers and may the force be with you……..
M_T_M

Wooooo Hooo i got space, just what i needed
Many moons ago purchased an Orange SPV C500 and on searching how to make the device better "PIMPED" XDA a place for people with common interests, many friends met along the way, mind you that was the days of WM where people appreciated what they where provided........... Now every minor with a gun got a smartphone welcome to the present a place where people seem to think they have a view they can shout out and be verbal against many outstanding members of the community!!! Think i preferred just dealing with SPAM.
To be edited @ sometime brain logs on!
M_T_M just noticed u start same

!I HAZ DONE BRICKED MY BRICK!
!ZOMG! PLZ HELP DIS FOOL!

Ahh, the days of the Qtek9100 were good. Faria, Bepe, pof...man what a crew! I'll write more later, but wow, what a time to reflect!

overground said:
!I HAZ DONE BRICKED MY BRICK!
!ZOMG! PLZ HELP DIS FOOL!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You, my good friend, win at XDA and teh internatz.

Post good memories you have about your beginnings on this site...we want to hear them

My first time here
I first came to XDA after getting my first PDA as a gift. It was a (HTC made) HP iPAQ 1945. It was my first time using a WM device ever. I was wowed by the ability to take any of my documents with me and to be able to beam them wirelessly via infrared or BT. It wasn't long before the interface left me waning more, however. I searched around and found some decent themes on XDA. This was around late 2004 or early 2005 as I recall.
I began reading up on all the cool mods and tweaks that this site had to offer for the platform. I came in every now and then for a while until I finally registered for an account in March of 2005. About a year after that, I ended up replacing my old bar phone with another iPAQ, this time, the cellular service-enabled HP iPAQ hw6945.
It had everything I wanted. It had a decent processor, a small amount of user upgradable RAM (if you have decent soldering skills), an amazing keyboard, and several other wireless services like cellular, WiFi, BT, and GPS. The downsides to the phone were it's enormous girth and its relatively crappy screen. It was a rather large, square 3" screen sporting a terrible 240x240 resolution. Even now, I still play with it every now and then and wish HTC/HP had gone with a nicer 480x480 screen.
I kept this device for several years, since, back then, you didn't HAVE to upgrade your phone every year to keep up with the times. WM devices were good for the consumer in that they were long lasting. It wasn't until 2010, almost four years later, that I finally got a Rhodium to replace my iPAQ. I simply fell in love with the keyboard, as nearly all Rhodium owners will tell you. I then came back to XDA to learn more about it. I decided to change my username for the third time and make it something less specific to the device I had at the time. That's how I came about with this name.
My Rhodium was plagued by problems of software that was not properly designed to run on such a low powered device. It ended up being pretty slow after a while, and HTC Messaging client didn't help much either. I went from my iPAQ, which booted completely in just under 15 seconds, to my Rhodium, which took a whopping 150 seconds (2.5 minutes) to boot into a usable state. I know there were several mitigating factors to attribute this with, but it was still a PITA.
I finally decided to flash my first custom ROM after reading about it for a couple of weeks. I picked NRGZ28's Energy ROM in the regular Energy flavor. I did that a few times, and soon realized that I was developing ORD. I played around with all of his different themes. I learned how to properly backup my device, and restore it. I learned how much I had fallen in love with the GTX theme. I even found the perfect radio for me in my area. It was a wonderful time for me.
The best part was that now I could actually assist users here on this site. Before then, I didn't have the knowledge to assist in much. Now, I had my business and education to propel me into this service along with the valuable information I gained from this site. I continued showing others "the light" for a while, and finally decided to give the Leo a try after having to replace my Rhodium so often do to sliding keyboard issues.
I use my Leo almost everyday now. The horse power is plenty enough to keep it moving in this increasingly hardware driven market. It runs nearly a dozen different operating systems. It blazes through most of the computing tasks I give it, and doesn't even blink at any program or app I throw its way. However, it isn't without flaws. The sound quality is severely lacking, as is the call quality. A lack of keyboard hurts, but Swype is a decent compromise. The battery life is nowhere near the two days I used to get from my Rhodium, but it gets me through the day, at least. I've just learned to always have a spare battery on hand, just in case.
That's my story here. What's yours?

I first came to XDA trying to root my Epic. Since then I have abused the firmware in any way I can trying to learn how things are done. I've had my epic since January and since then I have rooted, installed custom ROMs/Kernels and even Linux Ubuntu/Backtrack on my phone. This may very well be the best website ever.

I came to XDA about a year ago to root my incredible and put some custom roms on my phone.
It is a shame that the devs I that were in the Inc a year ago have left. Ihtfp, heyitslou, RMK...
While operation iron fist is a good 1st step, the Inc section has turned into the wild west with little mod intervention.
The reason I am posting this... the OP came in and modded some threads while on point, I felt was disrespectful to the spirit and users emotions over a percieved injustice to one of OUR devs. While this post may be greeted with disdain and hate, the fact remains XDAs problems are greater than the users.
Peace
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

I came to XDA after getting an HTC Hero CDMA for free. I hated Sense, and Sprint/HTC dropped the Hero support FAST leaving us with stale software.
I was amazed at the knowledage here, but was always afraid to register because everyone seemed to know what they were doing and I didn't want to be "that noob" that everyone seems to dread. So I was a lurker. I'd download ROMs, but never provide feedback or ask questions. I'd read, get used to Android terminology, etc. With solid computer knowledge under my belt I could fix most simple issues or figure it out myself.
Then things changed somewhat and the place became 4chan. I kept myself from registering yet again. Sometime early 2011 I had to visit my companies main office in Switzerland. I was away from XDA and my HTC EVO (sold my HeroC). I came back about two weeks ago and finally got settled in. I saw the IRON FIST posting the other day and for the first time I felt comfortable posting and being a member. I've learned alot and feel that I can help out and hopefully shake out some lurkers and get them to register and help as well.
Lurkers unite.

nihontako said:
I came to XDA after getting an HTC Hero CDMA for free. I hated Sense, and Sprint/HTC dropped the Hero support FAST leaving us with stale software.
I was amazed at the knowledage here, but was always afraid to register because everyone seemed to know what they were doing and I didn't want to be "that noob" that everyone seems to dread. So I was a lurker. I'd download ROMs, but never provide feedback or ask questions. I'd read, get used to Android terminology, etc. With solid computer knowledge under my belt I could fix most simple issues or figure it out myself.
Then things changed somewhat and the place became 4chan. I kept myself from registering yet again. Sometime early 2011 I had to visit my companies main office in Switzerland. I was away from XDA and my HTC EVO (sold my HeroC). I came back about two weeks ago and finally got settled in. I saw the IRON FIST posting the other day and for the first time I felt comfortable posting and being a member. I've learned alot and feel that I can help out and hopefully shake out some lurkers and get them to register and help as well.
Lurkers unite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It would just be nice if more newer users shared your point of view. Glad to have you with us now.

I have also been a "lurker" following development threads for my phone. I have downloaded R0Ms and have reached a stage where I feel I can make some useful contribution. However, I am stuck with the minimum 10-posting rule

I first found XDA a long time before i actually signed up , was a lurker for a long time, just browsing and viewing threads getting tips etc, only joined in 2009 i think it was when i got my touch diamond and became hooked the people were friendly and help full, then i progressed on to the HD2 and it was all great until prob last summer and i just got fed up of this place, it turned into a n00b fest ok fine everyone has to start somewhere, we all do, but everyone in that section just turned into complete ass hats including my self because day after day countless threads of "help" "did i brick my device" nobody reads any more,I will admit i did it the first day i got my hd2 i messed up real bad from not reading.
But this site is just getting worse now threads being closed people calling hell outta each other, ill even admit i have been a twat today for someone asking how to back up there contacts on android, (sorry just cut your hands off).
The site used to be great used to be a place were you could pop along find something you need and read and learn from it, now even the xda search feature is a waste of time. You cant find the info you need any more unless you no where to look,
Recently got myself the SGS2 (amazing device) gotta say the most miserable unhelpful twats ive ever come across in a device section, I dont no maybe there all just bored of the same thing in and out but most dont have that many posts and are *****ing at each other, then you come across chainfire that guy is a frigging genius he gets so many reply to his cf-root thread im surprised he can keep up its crazy and he gives no trouble, then look at Hacre who created the Ninphetamine kernel for the sgs2 post 5 i will admit is the FUNNIEST thing i have ever read in my life but he makes the whole point about what is happening to this site, its getting worse everyday.
I used to love this site for the way people helped and im not the greatest but i did my fair share of helping in the hd2 section and now i just cba to visit the forum because of the way people get treated, yeah im just one member that dont care any more and i no it doesn't make a difference to the website because it has so many members but thats my problem it seems there is no respect for anyone on here any more.
just my two cents

Um, I discovered XDA in August 2010 trying to find a way to improve my Wildfire. Before I joined (registered), I did a lot of reading and I discovered true charms of Android. Since then I'm every-day visitor, not a developer, just a user though... But I'm proud because I'm a member in a community like XDA is. Not to forget, I got some knowledge about mobile OS' (Android and WM) over the months so I'm contributing the community by helping people. XDA for the win!
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using XDA App

I didnt have a clue it was so old.......although I do seem to remember browsing through it whilst looking for Symbian hacks and such.

willverduzco said:
You, my good friend, win at XDA and teh internatz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok willverduzco I'm gonna call you out!
You respond to a thread where the last reply date is 31st March 2003, 07:25 AM....... 2003! (that's 8 and a half years old btw) In a thread about the good old days, you sir are a ether a master troll, a wizard mod changing dates all over here or i'm going mad
I'm not fussed which one, hats off to you.

Bring the deads back
How come you signed in 2008 and this post is from 2003
JimmyMcGee said:
I agree. I wonder if many of the people who are demanding that we be a technical support forum realize what our address is. We are xda-DEVELOPERS.com not xda-troubleshooters.com. So our main focus is Development for our phones. If someone shows effort, respect and we have time we may answer a troubleshooting question. However, please note that typing such a request in all Caps, poorly constructed sentences, or repeatedly will only serve to make you look like a fool. Then, instead of getting help, you will get ridiculed. So please realize that we owe you nothing. Unless you have developed something and shared it with the community, then we owe you our gratitude and respect. I know that if you treat me with respect I will give you mine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

orb3000 said:
How come you signed in 2008 and this post is from 2003
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Senior mods and up have magical powers. Look at my original post!
mynamesteve said:
Ok willverduzco I'm gonna call you out!
You respond to a thread where the last reply date is 31st March 2003, 07:25 AM....... 2003! (that's 8 and a half years old btw) In a thread about the good old days, you sir are a ether a master troll, a wizard mod changing dates all over here or i'm going mad
I'm not fussed which one, hats off to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why thank you sir. Looking at the my OP date, who says it's not all of the above.
Sent from my Nexus S using xda premium

I just got my Redmi Note 5 (global) and no manual, not even online?

Well, I got my Redmi Note 5 Global (model #: M1803E7SH) just a couple of hours ago and was shocked that there was no manual or documentation for it, not even online! WTF? Never heard of this before. Packaging looked cheap, and after updating the OS I've already encountered a bug - when I run the Compass program in Tools it superimposes the camera viewfinder over the compass, even obscures it unless I tilt the phone in landscape mode then the compass shows on screen. Nothing major but first impressions can mean a lot. Where can I get documentation for the M1803E7SH? Or does Xiaomi expect us to just know everything intuitively? I'm getting my Red Pocket SIM within the next couple of days and I hope not to discover anymore surprises. A slightly disappointing start.

It's $200 phone what did you expect? If you want manual for your phone you can buy a low spec phone that is worst for the higher price. Then you will get noob friendly manuals and tutorials maybe even a CD LOL!

Important and to late for you since you updated the rom read this thread: -
Everything About Anti Roll-back [Whyred]
Also read some more threads on these forums or the Xiaomi Reddit Wiki.
And maybe the official forums (filled with one line stupid posts).
And for user manual have not download it myself, it maybe just the slip of paper that came in the box.

To corkiejp:
"anti-rollback" sounds ominous, like I hit some terrible point of no return when I updated. Thanks, I'll read the topic(s). I find the phone fast and snappy so at least there's that. Maybe even faster than my Asus ZenPad, which had terrible battery management. Fingerprint lock scanner works perfectly. I half-expected to get locked out of my own phone on the first day due to major malfunction. or gargantuan bug. lol.
Yeah, I don't think there's a manual for this... anywhere. Your link points to a "Coming Soon!" place holder. I'll just have to read a bunch of online sources. Pathetic that we the users have to write the documentation for Xiaomi for one of their own products.
To that smart-ass posting above you: for $200, it's madness not to expect at least some kind of manual or Quick Start guide. Don't know where he gets his logic from that for $200 you shouldn't expect a manual :silly:
ETA: Also wanted to add an example of why there should be a manual for this. I can just imagine all the poor bastards that chased their tails for hours wondering why they couldn't get the procedure for registering a Fingerprint Lock working. It's just not particularly intuitive that you have to press the damn thing TWELVE times and wiggle your finger to get it to work. Easily the most poorly documented device I have ever purchased. Sh*t, even my cheap chinese $5 digital meat thermometer had a detailed manual in the box, on paper no less. But my $200 smart phone doesn't. Go figure.

RN5 is a smartphone, it was main for smart people.
Sent from my Redmi Note 5 using Tapatalk

"RN5 is a smartphone, it was main for smart people."
Not-so-smart answer though. I already cited an example of why we would could use a manual, but I guess you missed that, chief.

Lmao, people will cry over everything these days. Its a freaking android device, like any other. You get a little paper explaining hardware and buttons, and its written clearly: Press and hold power button to turn on the device, then follow on screen instructions. Thats why there is a startup guide when you use the phone for first time. Everythings explained more than simple. If you cant follow that, maybe smartphone is not for you. And i congratulate xiaomi for not wasting paper on this matter. Your rant about fingerprint is also absurd, everything is explained very clearly on screen instructions. Jeez, talk about being dramatic

JackOfOwls said:
To corkiejp:
"anti-rollback" sounds ominous, like I hit some terrible point of no return when I updated. Thanks, I'll read the topic(s). I find the phone fast and snappy so at least there's that. Maybe even faster than my Asus ZenPad, which had terrible battery management. Fingerprint lock scanner works perfectly. I half-expected to get locked out of my own phone on the first day due to major malfunction. or gargantuan bug. lol.
Yeah, I don't think there's a manual for this... anywhere. Your link points to a "Coming Soon!" place holder. I'll just have to read a bunch of online sources. Pathetic that we the users have to write the documentation for Xiaomi for one of their own products.
To that smart-ass posting above you: for $200, it's madness not to expect at least some kind of manual or Quick Start guide. Don't know where he gets his logic from that for $200 you shouldn't expect a manual :silly:
ETA: Also wanted to add an example of why there should be a manual for this. I can just imagine all the poor bastards that chased their tails for hours wondering why they couldn't get the procedure for registering a Fingerprint Lock working. It's just not particularly intuitive that you have to press the damn thing TWELVE times and wiggle your finger to get it to work. Easily the most poorly documented device I have ever purchased. Sh*t, even my cheap chinese $5 digital meat thermometer had a detailed manual in the box, on paper no less. But my $200 smart phone doesn't. Go figure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it does tell you to wiggle or move your finger at fingerprint set up..

raptorddd said:
it does tell you to wiggle or move your finger at fingerprint set up..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, after you press it TWELVE times it will eventually tell you to wiggle your finger after giving you countless fail/error messages.

Incogn said:
Lmao, people will cry over everything these days. Its a freaking android device, like any other. You get a little paper explaining hardware and buttons, and its written clearly: Press and hold power button to turn on the device, then follow on screen instructions. Thats why there is a startup guide when you use the phone for first time. Everythings explained more than simple. If you cant follow that, maybe smartphone is not for you. And i congratulate xiaomi for not wasting paper on this matter. Your rant about fingerprint is also absurd, everything is explained very clearly on screen instructions. Jeez, talk about being dramatic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm assuming you only use your phone to talk/text, browse a few webpages, and take not-so-pretty selfies, but some of us might want a little more detailed info on what this phone can actually do. And the phone can do a LOT, having features that probably 99% of end users aren't even aware of, thanks to virtually ZERO guidance provided by Xiaomi. The bottom line is we shouldn't have to go looking all over the web to compile our own documentation.

Btw, for comparison, I have a cheap, rock-bottom-of-the-line, $25 (USD) Unimax U673c android SmartPhone that had excellent documentation in the form of a PDF manual. But I guess it's okay if some of you guys don't find the lack of a manual curious. Your needs are probably few, and some of you probably can barely read anyway, so...
And I just wanted to say Thank You to corkiejp for being helpful and polite among a bunch of bozos whose only way of being able to communicate seems to be through snark. Have a great day. I'm outta here.

Dude, just stop. You are alone on this matter. Every single post in this thread disagree with you. You are drama queen over nothing. And i use my phone to its full potential, obviously more than you do, because i never needed any papers telling me how to add fingerprint lmao. Now that i think about it, im quite sure there wasnt any paper manuals in my atleast last 2 devices also. Just some simple instructions on how to remove sim tray or stuff like that. There is a FIRST STARTUP GUIDE on android for a reason. It couldnt be more simple. And this was my first ever MIUI phone, so i wasnt really familiar with this OS, yet somehow i understand all its functions. Maybe because whenever you enter some function menu from settings, you get a neat little guide on what its purpose is or an option called "about", which does same thing - explain how it works in short.
---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------
JackOfOwls said:
Btw, for comparison, I have a cheap, rock-bottom-of-the-line, $25 (USD) Unimax U673c android SmartPhone that had excellent documentation in the form of a PDF manual. But I guess it's okay if some of you guys don't find the lack of a manual curious. Your needs are probably few, and some of you probably can barely read anyway, so...
And I just wanted to say Thank You to corkiejp for being helpful and polite among a bunch of bozos whose only way of being able to communicate seems to be through snark. Have a great day. I'm outta here.
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Half of your posts in this thread are insults against other members, talking about being polite... Joker. You are not right, you are not a majority, not a single person here gives a **** about paper manual, no one agrees with you, and you are not better than any members here who may have insulted your dramaqueen personality, because you spit insults in half of your posts here.

JackOfOwls said:
...Sh*t, even my cheap chinese $5 digital meat thermometer had a detailed manual in the box, on paper no less. But my $200 smart phone doesn't. Go figure.
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Your meat thermometer is a single-function device and as such easy to write a manual for. A 'smart' phone - in other words, a pocket computer which happens to include mobile connectivity - is none of the above. The role of the manual has been largely taken over by on-screen instructions, your example of fingerprint enrolment is demonstrative in this respect as it tells you what to do while you do it. You might as well get used to this as the chance of finding a comprehensive manual for software which is updated every other week is getting smaller and smaller. If you want a phone with a manual you're better off with a feature phone as those, due to their less ephemeral nature, can be described in full for the duration of their lifetime which is measured in years.

Incogn said:
Dude, just stop. You are alone on this matter. Every single post in this thread disagree with you. You are drama queen over nothing. And i use my phone to its full potential, obviously more than you do, because i never needed any papers telling me how to add fingerprint lmao. Now that i think about it, im quite sure there wasnt any paper manuals in my atleast last 2 devices also. Just some simple instructions on how to remove sim tray or stuff like that. There is a FIRST STARTUP GUIDE on android for a reason. It couldnt be more simple. And this was my first ever MIUI phone, so i wasnt really familiar with this OS, yet somehow i understand all its functions. Maybe because whenever you enter some function menu from settings, you get a neat little guide on what its purpose is or an option called "about", which does same thing - explain how it works in short.
---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------
Half of your posts in this thread are insults against other members, talking about being polite... Joker. You are not right, you are not a majority, not a single person here gives a **** about paper manual, no one agrees with you, and you are not better than any members here who may have insulted your dramaqueen personality, because you spit insults in half of your posts here.
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I actually only insulted two people in this topic - you and that other idiot who could barely manage to get out a single sentence. Stop exaggerating. If I wish to think you're a douche for your asshole tone in replying to my posts, then that's my prerogative. Most of the people here have actually replied to my rant in a polite, reasonable way. And then there's the douches, they're on every forum of course, who I treat as they treat me. Congratulations. You got what you sowed. So take your own advice and just STFU.

JackOfOwls said:
I actually only insulted two people in this topic - you and that other idiot who could barely manage to get out a single sentence. Stop exaggerating. If I wish to think you're a douche for your asshole tone in replying to my posts, then that's my prerogative. Most of the people here have actually replied to my rant in a polite, reasonable way. And then there's the douches, they're on every forum of course, who I treat as they treat me. Congratulations. You got what you sowed. So take your own advice and just STFU.
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You insulted 3 people actually. How many posts there was? So saying half of your posts are insults is not an exaggeration. And you made fun of one user because of his grammar. Really? Are you an american? Because thats only country in the world i know of who are self entitled and stupid enough to make fun of someones second or even third spoken language..You must be an american. Only people in the world who speak 1 language and think they are smart. Pathetic. Sadly only douchebag i see here is you, and not only that, but dumb enough to not understand very clear on screen instructions lmao. Nice try, go read some paper manuals of your meat termometer, maybe that will help you understand smartphones better lol.

Incogn said:
Really? Are you an american? Because thats only country in the world i know of who are self entitled and stupid enough to make fun of someones second or even third spoken language..You must be an american. .
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Are you an Indian? You must be an indian Reason I ask is because there's a certain type from India that post a lot on the fone forums that write stupid and hysterical posts like this one.
Here's a pithy post from this forum that I think you should read, and the followup one too It certainly fits your psychological/sociological profile. Hah, even your own countrymen recognize there's a problem. Look within thyself and someday you may become a whole person instead of this silly man-child we seeing shrieking and LOLing to himself on these forums. :silly:

JackOfOwls said:
Are you an Indian? You must be an indian Reason I ask is because there's a certain type from India that post a lot on the fone forums that write stupid and hysterical posts like this one.
Here's a pithy post from this forum that I think you should read, and the followup one too It certainly fits your psychological/sociological profile. Hah, even your own countrymen recognize there's a problem. Look within thyself and someday you may become a whole person instead of this silly man-child we seeing shrieking and LOLing to himself on these forums. :silly:
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Again, just proving the stereotype americans are dumb. You cant even adress single point i make, because you know im right. Calling someone dumb because they can speak slightly broken second language, when your sorry ass cant even do that. Crying nonsense about some paper manuals, when majority of OEMs stopped providing them. Not being able to follow the most simple instructions on screen. Calling me childish when you infact just spit nonsense, insults, and change subject every post, what a mature person! And finally assuming im indian for some reason, and spending whole paragraph trying to insult indians, when im in fact from europe lmao. Please, by all means, keep these dumb posts coming, im starting to find you hilarious.

Incogn said:
Again, just proving the stereotype americans are dumb. You cant even adress single point i make, because you know im right. Calling someone dumb because they can speak slightly broken second language, when your sorry ass cant even do that. Crying nonsense about some paper manuals, when majority of OEMs stopped providing them. Not being able to follow the most simple instructions on screen. Calling me childish when you infact just spit nonsense, insults, and changes subject every post, what a mature person! And finally assuming im indian for some reason, and spending whole paragraph trying to insult indians, when im in fact from europe lmao. Please, by all means, keep these dumb posts coming, im starting to find you hilarious.
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You should re-read my original posts instead of going off half-cocked again. Where does it say I need a paper manual? PDF documents are just as good. So your homework for now is to go back and re-read my posts and stop stupidly obsessing on the "paper" thing. Then we can continue this conversation, else I'll just continue to assume you have poor reading comprehension and/or debating skills. Just in case you need it written more clearly: I. Don't. Need. Paper. Manuals. PDF. Is. Fine. Stop. Being. Such. A. Douche. :laugh:

JackOfOwls said:
You should re-read my original posts instead of going off half-cocked again. Where does it say I need a paper manual? PDF documents are just as good. So your homework for now is to go back and re-read my posts and stop stupidly obsessing on the "paper" thing. Then we can continue this conversation, else I'll just continue to assume you have poor reading comprehension and/or debating skills. Just in case you need it written more clearly: I. Don't. Need. Paper. Manuals. PDF. Is. Fine. Stop. Being. Such. A. Douche. :laugh:
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Lol.Again.Avoiding.All.My.Points.And.Rambling.Nonsense. Alright, my bad, go add "or pdf" whenever i mentioned manual. Not that it changes anything. You are still pathetic and avoiding the points i made, because i was right, and you have nothing clever to say anymore lmao. 'Murica at its finest

Incogn said:
Lol.Again.Avoiding.All.My.Points.And.Rambling.Nonsense. Alright, my bad, go add "or pdf" whenever i mentioned manual. Not that it changes anything. You are still pathetic and avoiding the points i made, because i was right, and you have nothing clever to say anymore lmao. 'Murica at its finest
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You really don't see the irony of the situation, do you? You try to call me out on insulting people from other countries and in the previous post you insult americans, and continue to insult them. Your own xenophobia exposed you for what you are - a hypocrite.. Anything you say now is likely to be dismissed by everyone. You are what is known as a dumb twat. All I had to do was give you enough rope. Now that is funny

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